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muslim_mafiaIt is no secret to BU the 911 event which occurred in New York on the 11 September 2001 has added to tensions between the Muslim and Christian worlds. The reported terrorist acts which resulted in the demolition of the Twin Towers, damaged to the Pentagon and tragically resulted in the loss of many lifes has scared world history. The act was tracked to the Al Qaeda network by the US authorities and predictably the fallout has reverberated across the world. During the last US Presidential Election Campaign the foreign policy the candidates would adopt if elected was placed under heavy scrutiny especially concerning the current conflicts in Muslimย  Iraq, Afghanistan and for other reasons Iran. To President Barack Obamaโ€™s credit he fulfilled a campaign promise when he delivered a speech targeting his message at the Muslim world back in May designed to ease tension. He demonstrated courage and imagination by travelling to Egypt to do so.

Eight years later BU is not sure there has been any deflation of tensions even though President Obama has been able to benefit by being awarded a Nobel Peace prize significantly attributed to his efforts at enabling a climate which encourages peace.

It must concern President Obama now that he carries the weight of being a Nobel Laureate; the unravelling revelation in a book just released that the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) has been fingered in a memo obtained through Paul Sperry’s newest book Muslim Mafia: Inside the Secret Underworld that’s Conspiring to Islamize America, CAIR lays out plans to place interns in the Committees on the Judiciary, Intelligence, and Homeland Security for the purpose of influencing policy.

Interesting indeed, so what does the future hold?

A Free Press For A Free People

‘Now we have proof’ jihadis infiltrating D.C.

Congress seizes on explosive new book based on daring undercover CAIR probe

In the wake of the sensational ACORN video sting operation by two young investigators, an even more daring, dangerous and devastating undercover investigation – this one infiltrating the nation’s most aggressive Muslim “civil rights” organization for six months – has resulted in stunning revelations about the supposedly “moderate” group, backed up by 12,000 pages of documents and 300 hours of covert video obtained during the secret op.

As revealed in a new book detailing the operation and its findings, the Washington, D.C.-based Council on American-Islamic Relations, or CAIR, is not the beneficent Muslim civil-rights group it claims to be. Rather, as indisputable evidence now shows, CAIR and other “mainstream” Islamic groups are acting as fronts for a well-funded conspiracy of the Muslim Brotherhood โ€“ the parent of al-Qaida and Hamas โ€“ to infiltrate and destroy the American system.

Until now, CAIR has remained a powerful force in the nation’s capitol and across the country, from demanding the Obama administration stop FBI counter-terrorism tactics to compelling a school district to apologize to Muslims.

That influence, many believe, may be coming to an end, as a result of the stunning undercover investigation — which included the son of a veteran counter-terrorism investigator, who grew a beard and converted to Islam, as well as two veiled female interns.

CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad shakes hands with intern Chris Gaubatz, aka David Marshall, at CAIR’s national headquarters in Washington, D.C., in 2008

“Muslim Mafia: Inside the Secret Underworld That’s Conspiring to Islamize America,” a WND Books publication by counter-terrorism investigator Dave Gaubatz and “Infiltration” author Paul Sperry, documents CAIR’s ultimate purpose to transform the United States into an Islamic nation under the authority of the Quran.

The book already has prompted action on Capitol Hill.

With evidence from “Muslim Mafia” in hand, U.S. Rep. Sue Myrick, R-N.C., co-founder of the Congressional Anti-Terror Caucus, and other members of Congress โ€“ including Reps. John Shadegg, R-Ariz., and Paul Broun, R-Ga. โ€“ plan to hold a press conference today in Washington calling for an investigation and an end to political lobbying by front groups such as CAIR.

“Now we have proof โ€“ from the secret documents that this investigative team has uncovered, coupled with the ones recently declassified by the FBI โ€“ that [radical Islamists] agents living among us have a plan in place, and they are successfully carrying out that subversive plan,” Myrick writes in the foreword to “Muslim Mafia.”

Noting that CAIR has tried to hide its strategy, finances, membership, internal disputes and much more from public view since its founding in 1994, Islam expert Daniel Pipes lauded “Muslim Mafia” for definitively exposing the “tawdry and often illegal inner workings of radical Islam’s most aggressive organization in North America.”

“The revelations in this book should both put CAIR out of business and permanently discredit the Islamist cause,” Pipes said.

Undercover

The book begins as a real-life, heart-pounding thriller, with Chris Gaubatz, the son of co-author David Gaubatz, preparing to go underground as an intern for CAIR at its Herndon, Va., office.

Astoundingly, the younger Gaubatz, posing as a bearded Muslim convert, ends up with a position at CAIR’s national office in Washington, just three blocks from the U.S. Capitol building, working alongside top leaders Ibrahim Hooper, Nihad Awad and Corey Saylor.

Along with declassified government documents, the book unveils thousands of e-mails, faxes and internal memos that were never meant for public viewing.

Chris Gaubatz and CAIR Communications Director Ibrahim Hooper working the CAIR booth at the 45th annual convention of the Islamic Society of North America in Columbus, Ohio, in 2008

The new evidence shows that CAIR โ€“ already designated an unindicted co-conspirator in the largest terror-financing case in U.S. history โ€“ is part of an organized crime network in America made up of more than 100 other Muslim front groups that collectively comprise the U.S. Muslim Brotherhood.

“Muslim Mafia” also exposes the inner workings of the mob-like Brotherhood and explains its broader conspiracy of infiltrating the American government and “destroying Western civilization from within.”

“The evidence found in the investigation is incontrovertible,” said co-author Sperry, noting that the book has more than 40 pages of footnotes and an appendix with more than 50 pages of exclusive confidential documents.

The Brotherhood is known within Islamist circles as the “Ikhwan mafia” because of its highly organized structure, centralized control and covert operations. CAIR, reveals “Muslim Mafia,” is one part of the network of front groups, cut-outs and shell companies that shield the Brotherhood’s criminal activities from authorities.

“These guys talk about jihad and murdering Jews like the mob talked about killing โ€“ totally casual, like they were ordering pizza,” said one FBI official in Washington quoted in the book.

Some key smoking-gun revelations detailed in “Muslim Mafia” include:

  • New evidence that CAIR was launched to support the Hamas terrorist group, and has transferred tens of thousands of dollars to a group recently convicted as Hamas’ top fundraising arm in the U.S. – money that ended up aiding terrorist attacks on Israelis and Americans;
  • Internal documents showing CAIR, despite claims of cooperating with law enforcement, actively works behind the scenes to mislead and deceive the FBI on behalf of terrorism suspects – and has even cultivated Muslim moles inside law enforcement who have tipped off FBI terror targets;
  • CAIR is more closely tied to al-Qaida than previously reported;
  • CAIR claims to represent all Muslim Americans, however, it has victimized some 100 indigent Muslims in a massive fraud and threatened them when they tried to go to the media; and internally, personnel complaints reveal CAIR discriminates against Shiite Muslims and Muslim women within its own headquarters;
  • CAIR and its sister fronts are funded by foreign Muslim Brotherhood sources;
  • CAIR leaders share the Muslim Brotherhood’s ultimate goal to replace the U.S. Constitution with Shariah law;
  • The Muslim Brotherhood investment in corporate America will be used to pressure U.S. companies into compliance with Islamic principles.

The book also shows radical Muslims in the U.S. are working to support Palestinian terrorists, destroy Israel, gut U.S. anti-terrorism laws, loosen U.S. Muslim immigration policies and convert Americans to Islam.

The authors explain they targeted CAIR because it helps control the “religious crime syndicate from its power base in Washington, the capitol of the same government it wishes to overthrow.”

While the FBI has cut formal ties to CAIR in the wake of its designation as an unindicted co-conspirator in a plot to fund the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas, the group has virtually unfettered access to Capitol Hill and continues to wield influence in the White House.

Certificate signed by Nihad Awad and awarded to Chris Gaubatz for completing his internship

CAIR, the book reveals, regularly reserves meeting rooms and prays Fridays alongside Muslim Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., and a growing number of Muslim staffers.

The first Muslim elected to Congress and a de facto CAIR board member, Ellison predicted in one CAIR power breakfast he soon would be flanked by 15 other Muslim congressmen, “Muslim Mafia” notes.

Chris Gaubatz, in fact, once found himself praying elbow-to-elbow with Ellison during a Friday prayer gathering attended by CAIR inside the U.S. Capitol.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., the book says, is totally in the dark about the threat, and so is the White House.

In fact, reveals “Muslim Mafia,” in the White House President Obama is hiring Muslims โ€“ including an adviser who advocates compliance with Shariah law โ€“ based on resumes solicited from Muslim Brotherhood fronts.

Meanwhile, the FBI is in conflict internally about how to deal with the Brotherhood, with some top officials in favor of maintaining outreach, while counter-terror case agents in the field strongly object, pointing to evidence the network is a factory for homegrown terror and is secretly carrying out activities hostile to the U.S.

“They’ve achieved outrageous penetration at senior levels of our government,” veteran FBI special agent John Guandolo warns in the book.

Until recently, the FBI engaged in outreach activities with CAIR, including forcing rookie agents to take cultural field trips to area mosques.

The “Muslim Mafia” authors obtained notes revealing the FBI even has offered to sponsor Muslim youth camps with the Boys Clubs of America.

A shortage of Arab linguists and dozens of discrimination suits by Arab and Muslim employees has prompted the FBI to recruit from Brotherhood-related groups, such as the Islamic Society of North America

A Muslim agent who drew national attention when he refused to tape-record a fellow Muslim during a terrorism investigation was promoted and now recruits other Muslims to become agents and linguists.

‘Hit sheets’

The book also presents evidence CAIR has prepared “hit sheets” on its critics in the news media in an effort to intimidate them into silence.

Internal memos show, for example, top officials privately met with CNN executives in Atlanta to press them to cancel Glenn Beck’s program on its Headline News network. Beck now has a highly rated afternoon show on the Fox News Channel.

CAIR’s campaign to boycott leading nationally syndicated radio talk-show host Michael Savage’s advertisers cost more than $160,000, the book reveals. The authors recount how CAIR ran out of money before it could crack Savage’s most loyal sponsors.

The book also includes new revelations about CAIR’s role in the “flying imams” case in 2006 in which six Muslim leaders were removed from an airline flight in Minneapolis after passengers and crew members reported what they believed to be suspicious behavior.

“Muslim Mafia” also exposes CAIR’s secret agenda to criminalize anti-terror profiling by police and private entities.

Gaubatz is a veteran federal investigator and counter-terrorism specialist who served for more than a decade as a special agent in the U.S. Air Force’s elite Office of Special Investigations. He held the U.S. government’s highest security clearances, including Top Secret/SCI (Sensitive Compartmented Information), and was briefed in many so-called black projects.

Gaubatz also is a State Department-trained Arabic linguist with more than two decades of experience in the Middle East, including tours in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan and Iraq. In 2003, he led a 15-man team to rescue the family members of the Iraqi lawyer credited with saving Army Private First Class Jessica Lynch.

Sperry, a media fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution, is former Washington bureau chief for Investor’s Business Daily and former Washington bureau chief of WorldNetDaily.com.

His bestseller “Infiltration: How Muslim Spies and Subversives Have Penetrated Washington,” is being used by the U.S. military and top law enforcement departments nationwide. Many of the numerous stories he has broken on national security and counter-terrorism have been cited by the Washington Post, USA Today, UPI and the Associated Press, among others. His columns have appeared in publications such as the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, New York Post, Houston Chronicle, American Spectator and Reason.

One FBI official quoted in “Muslim Mafia” says CAIR and the other Muslim Brotherhood front groups differ from al-Qaida in that, while all share the same goals, they use different methods to achieve them.

“The only difference between the guys in the suits and the guys with the AK-47s is timing and tactics,” the official explained.


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603 responses to “Muslim Mafia In America: What Does The Future Bode?”


  1. @Zoe………….Didn’t I warn you about the equivocation of the english language? Be careful how you play with words as I can see that you have not yet been weaned from that bottle milk!

    Do you know that I, a mere mortal on the verge of BECOMING would have never EXALTED myself to the realm of APOTHEOSIS!

    For that I say thanks you my ‘good’ brother!


  2. One can have a sincere belief in something, and be sincerely WRONG, as we all know; belief has to have an objective basis in Truth and facts in order for that belief system to be valid!


  3. @Hopi, Your ‘spiritual’ father, sought to exalt himself above his Creator, hence ‘apotheosize’ to deify himself, which brought him DOWN, from thence he has being deceiving multitudes, like yourself, with ‘demonic’ FALSE deities, that do NOT exist, therefore, in describing YOUR attitude, *apotheosis* is an appropriate synonym of ‘epitome’ etc, as you seek, pompously give, as you think, the ‘last word’ on such matters, hence you are a true ‘daughter’ of your deceived ‘Father’ a LIAR from the beginning!


  4. Geez ……such anger….such…tension.


  5. kiki // October 19, 2009 at 9:04 AM

    art said (October 17, 2009 at 10:23 AM)
    โ€œOne of my conclusions about these threads and many others at BU is that a greater than normal number are
    1) mentally ill, and
    2) Some, a greater number than normal, are with agendae, be it anti- whatever.โ€
    +
    Thatโ€™s correct the BU Family has several dysfunctional members who have been mistreated and abused by oppression and are fighting for the right to be heard.

    The correct analogy to meditate on is:

    โ€œif you starve an infant of oxygen
    he/she will become brain damagedโ€
    ***********************

    Thanks KiKi. Well said.


  6. Technician // October 19, 2009 at 12:52 PM

    Geez โ€ฆโ€ฆsuch angerโ€ฆ.suchโ€ฆtension.
    ********************

    I am sure if Zoe could have a go at us, we would all be dead. Burned alive as heretics.

    The more things change, the more they stay the same. These religious fanatics are all missing a few fruit loops.


  7. Zoe,

    Yes we know we someone can believe something sincerely and be wrong.

    However, you did not answer my question.

    Do you think that the belief of catholics (and muslims) in their god(s) is any less sincere than your belief in your god(s)?

    Now the catholics claim to worship the very same god(s) as you so the question is very relevant in their case, is their belief any less sincere than yours?


  8. Zoe……..Show some love! When you have awakened from your duped state I will be here with open arms ready to welcome you into THE KINGDOM!

    BTW, belief and fact and truth are diametrically opposed.


  9. When you KNOW the mind of the god(s) you worship……..

    “In court, the man’s lawyer, Douglas Christie, argued the man’s desire to fulfil his religious duty negated any criminal intent.”

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/10/16/bc-home-circumcision-charges.html


  10. Zoe believes his/hers is the only true God.

    Zoe believes all others are wrong.

    Zoe believes we are ignorant and he/she is brilliant.

    Zoe believes……

    Zoe believes….

    Zoe is starting to sound as Fanatical as the same people he cries down.

    Religion in action folks….observe!!


  11. @Not Saved, “However, you did not answer my question.”

    If, from all that I’ve posted over the months, you cannot draw the logical conlusion from my implicit comment, (Oct 19,2009 @10:16AM), I most certainly will not be going over it again!

    @Hopi, “…I will be here with open arms ready to welcome you into THE KINGDOM!”

    Dear Hops, I WAS delivered from THAT KINGDOM of *DARKNESS* into the Glorious KINGDOM of God’s Son, The Lord Jesus Christ, where the LIGHT of the world reigns Omnipotent, and Gloriously so; I therefore have the experiential benefit of both worlds, and I KNOW from what I have been set FREE from, and the Gift of Eternal Life, graciously bestowed upon those that BELIEVE, and then HAVE the LIVING reality of an transformed life, from within!


  12. @Hopi, “BTW, belief and fact and truth are diametrically opposed.”

    This statement is laced with inaccuracy!

    First, Truth by definition IS absolute; regardless of who denies this to be so.

    Logic is the backbone of critical thinking. Logic is very necessary for uncovering ‘error’ and establishing truth.

    Therefore, logical *absolutes* are the building blocks of discussion and analysis. We cannot have a ‘rational’ discussion if there are no ‘logical absolutes’ because then our thinking would be self-contradictory.

    Secondly, belief (Faith) is not hostile to reason, not at all! But this false concept of faith represents misunderstanding of the Biblical concept of faith.

    The biblical notion of *faith* (belief) includes three components: ‘notitia’ (understanding the content of the Christian faith, belief), ‘fiducia’ (trust) and ‘assensus’ (the assent of the intellect to truth of some proposition). Therefore, ‘Trust’ ‘belief’ *faith* IS based on understanding, knowledge, and the intellect’s assent to ‘truth.’ Belief in rests, on belief ‘that.’

    Therefore, one is called, to reasonably, rationally, objectively, and logically, to trust, ‘believe’ have explicit confidence in what he or she has *reason* to give intellectual assent (assensus) to.

    Faith, (belief, trust) IS not a blind, irrational leap into the dark. So that faith, (trust, belief) and ‘reason’ rational, objective, *factual* evidence, cooperate on a biblical view of *faith*.

    They are NOT intrinsically hostile!


  13. When you know your god(s) better than you think……


  14. @Zoe…………Since truth by definition is Absolute, do you agree with me that ABSOLUTE lies with the CREATOR? and that what we [mere mortals] define as Truth is only Relative to Us? and that we would be SHOCKED to find out that what we hold to be TRUTH is not ABSOLUTE? thereby nullifying our TRUTH?

    I’ll get to logic later, if you permit me.


  15. @Hopi, “…Since truth by definition is Absolute, do you agree with me, that ABSOLUTE lies with the CREATOR? And that what we [mere mortals] define as Truth is only Relative?

    First, yes, ABSOLUTE lies with the CREATOR?

    Secondly, NO one creates Truth, we only ‘discover’ Truth, which Almighty God has given to us through our God given ability, i.e., intellect, mind, will, etc., and because Truth, IS Absolute, again, God has given to us, Logical absolutes, by which we can ‘discover’ what He has propositionally ‘revealed’ to us through His Word, the Bible.

    Unless, and until Almighty God took the Divine ‘initiative’ (which He did, historically) to reveal Himself to mankind, NO ONE would have a clue about ‘Him’ which IS needed by and through ‘Special’ revelation, NOT natural revelation, i.e., the created world around us, i.e., earth, animal life, plants, etc, etc, only show us, who are without ‘excuse’ that an Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, personal, Loving Creator, Almighty God, brought it ALL together, as it so awesomely speaks!

    Looking forward to hearing you on logic, tomorrow!


  16. @Zoe……………what are these logical absolutes?

    Can these absolutes be revealed to you in a manner other than thru “his Word” the Bible?

    Can the absolutes be revealed to anyone who earnestly seeks after them, christian/non-christian?

    Your last para …”Unless…..” is quite fluffy Zoe! It would be useless of the Creator and Creation if IT did not reveal itself to US thru US, won’t you agree?


  17. @Hopi….”What are these logical absolutes?”

    First, No man created these logical absolutes, as Almighty God IS the ultimate source of ALL truth; He allowed us to ‘discover’ these Absolutes laws of logic, in order that we can ‘Reason’ which IS necessary for revelation to be Coherent.

    They are three fundamental principles in the laws of ‘Logic’ which are themselves *Absolute* truths, and are universal, regardless of culture, race, creed or ethnicity.

    I) The Law of Identity
    2) The Law of Non-Contradiction
    3) The Law of Excluded Middle.

    Therefore, assessing ‘Worldviews’ bears out the utterly fundamental grounding of ‘logic’ for thinking and ‘Truth’ and worlviews. These laws of logic point us toward Truth, they are prescriptive, NOT descriptive, that would render it, psychology, Logic direct us to correctives for faulty thinking, allowing us to analysize facts and come to coherent, valid conclusions.

    Without these ‘laws’ of logic, no rational thought would be possible. To reject these basic logical laws, one would have to ‘utilize’ these very laws to reject them. The man/woman who begins to ‘think’ without proper first principles, i.e., Logic, he/she begins to think at the wrong end.

    Put another way, as Gordon Clark rightly asserts, “Anyone who disparages or belittles logic, must use logic in their attack, thus *undercutting* their own argument.” emphasis added.

    Basic Laws of Reason

    Law of Identity

    The law of identity is basic and foundational for the other basic laws of logic. LI assets that a ‘particular’ *entity* or *object* IS precisely ‘that’ particular object. In other words, it IS identical to itself. For example, “This red pen IS the red pen, it IS not the blue pen!

    The law of inditity in logic, implies that if you can find something ‘True’ of X that IS NOT true of Y, then X and Y are not identical.

    The Law of Non-Contradiction

    That is, A cannot be -A in the same respect or same time. In other words, two ‘competing’ Truth Claims’ CANNOT be both right, in the same respect or the same time. They can both be wrong, BUT, they CANNOT both be right. Competing religious ‘Worldviews’ are ALL making ‘Truth claims’ the only sound method of evaluating their respective truth claims, IS by utilizing these *unalterable* *unchanging* laws of logic, that Almighty God has given to us.

    The Law of Excluded Middle.

    A ‘true’ statement IS one that ‘corresponds to reality.’ If statement “X” is true,’ corresponds to reality, then this implies that not-X is FALSE. In other words, if something IS TRUE, this must ‘exclude something (namely, falsity). We are then left with two exhaustive options, TRUTH or FALSITY.

    The LEM entails that NO third way is possible. For example, Almighty God, either exist OR he doesn’t exist. There is no other alternative!

    I have not dismissed your other questions, I just wanted to lay the ground work in Logic regarding your first question.


  18. OMG…….All this intellectual hogwash just to answer a simple question???

    Talking about playing with words!!

    I have to study all this just to understand what ‘God’ is saying to me?

    If this is not the best example of deception, then I dont know what is….give me a dose of common sense anytime.
    I now see where the arrogance in Christianity come from.


  19. @ Hopi, ‘Can absolutes be revealed to anyone who earnestly seek after them, Christians/non Christians?”

    Most certainly, as Almighty God IS no respector of persons, BUT, that seeker of ‘Truth’ must of necessity, be honest and allow and use, ‘commonsense’ which is in effect, WHAT the basic, unchangeable, law of logic are all about!

    “Your last para…’Unless…is quite fluffy Zoe! It would be useless of the Creator and Creation if it did not reveal itself to US thru US, won’t you agree?”

    First, some understanding is required here!

    Natural revelation, what is it!

    Almighty God, our Creator HAS revealed Himself in nature, the Created order of life, etc. Let us hear Him, in His Word.

    “For the wrath of God IS revealed from heaven ‘against’ ALL ungodliness and *unrighteousness* who (do what?) hold the *truth* in unrighteousness.” (v.18)

    “Because THAT (natural revelation) which may be *known* is manifest (clearly) IN them ( mankind); for God hath shewed IT unto them.” (v.19)

    For the *invisible* things of Him from the Creation (natural revelation) of the world ARE CLEARLY seen, being understood, (logically) by the things that are made (Created), even His eternal power and Godhead, SO that they (mankind) ARE without EXCUSE.” (v.20)

    “Because THAT, when they (mankind) knew God (by natural revelation, the Created order of life, etc) they (mankind) glorified Him NOT as God, neither were thankful, BUT, became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.” (v.21)

    “Professing themselves (mankind) to be wise, they became fools.” (v.22)

    And *changed* the glory of the uncorruptibe God *into* an image (replete throughout history, *images* of false deities!) made like to corruptible man, and to *birds* (idolatrous images) and fourfooted beast ( again, idolatrous images), and creeping things.” (v. 23)

    (Romans 1: 18-23)

    Verse 20, “They (mankind) are without excuse.” Why is this so, as Almighty God has declared? Because, the *things* that are made (Created) implicitely and explicitely *REVEAL* to ALL men, the Eternal power and Godhead (= Divinity) of the True God, SO, that rejection of this *Truth* makes a man/woman without excuse before Almighty God.

    Ya see Hopi, there is a vast distinction between what God has revealed to US, through the Created order of ‘life’ which leaves ALL of mankind ‘WithOUT excuse’ as to His Being; and what IS then revealed through ‘Special’ Divine Revalation, as divinly Inspired and recorded in His Word, the Bible; which could NOT be known, understood through ‘natural’ revealtion, this IS why, He then gave to ALL of mankind His revealed will for US, collectively, to KNOW Him, through His Word in history!


  20. Zoe…………. On Law of Non-Contradiction– Christians see Jesus as The Way, The Truth & The Light and Muslims see Muhammad as their Way ……..This is Reality for both of you, isn’t it?

    Could it be that the Creator revealed ITSELF to the Christian and to the Muslim, that each other’s way, though different will lead them to, or is the TRUTH? And if Not Why Not? Or could it be that you are BOTH wrong?

  21. Carson C. Cadogan Avatar
    Carson C. Cadogan

    Excerts from a lecture by Shlomo Sand on Sunday .

    “Sand has an excitable, self-referential style, and he began the lecture by breaking his guitar. “Jewish history is not my field.” No, but once he had discovered that the story of the connection of the Jewish people to the Holy Land WAS A MYTH, he decided that he would secretly explore the history but not publish until he got tenure for doing other work. Because if he published this first, “there would not be any chance of being a full professor. Not only in Tel Aviv. But at NYU too.””

    “The Ashkenazi Jews of Eastern Europe originated in Kazaria. They were hugely successful and founded a great city, Kiev. We can claim to have founded Kiev, but not Jerusalem, he said. Because the Jews who lived in the Holy Land stayed in the Holy Land. Many of the people we now call Palestinians were originally Jews. The chance that someone who lives in Hebron today and speaks Arabic is a direct descendant of a Jew in ancient times is 1000 times greater than the possibility that I am descended from a Jew, Shlomo Sand declared.”

    What is a people? A people generally shares a way of life, a language, a food, a geography. There is no Jewish language. Shlomo Sand stumbles proudly in English, while of course many of the people in the audience were Jews speaking English. Food the Israelis have-stolen from the Palestinians-and still you must say that there is an Israeli people. But they are not the Jewish people. They are Israeli people, and the Palestinians are Palestinian people. Both made by Zionism

    Shlomo Sand is Professor of History at Tel Aviv University in Israel and an author.


  22. God is my Father. That sounds pretty good. He is my Savior. That’s for sure. But God is my friend? This is a new side to Him that I have been introduced to …


  23. @Hopi, “On the Law of Non-Contradiction, Chriatians see Jesus as The Way, The Truth & The Light (Life!) and the Muslims see Muhammad s as their Way…This is reality for both of you, isn’t it?”

    Historic Christianity, from its inception endued untold persecution, hatred, mass killings, rejection, and continues up until this very day, where an estimated 100,000,000, Christians particularly in third-world countries are STILL being persecuted, mainly by Muslims, Islamists.

    So there IS a vast distinction, between the Doctrine of Christianty and Islam, as there ARE *diametrically* opposed ‘Doctrinally’ Ideologically, Philosophically, IN every which way!

    Could both these religions be Inspired, Led, by the same Almighty Creator?

    Absolutely Not! Confirmed by the Transcendent Laws of Logic!

    Firstly, Almighty God, our Creator IS NOT the God of *Confusion* For He IS Absolutely God of *Order* Peace, etc, etc.

    “For God IS NOT the author of *confusion* but of *peace* as in all the churchs of the saints.” (I Cor. 14: 33) emphasis added.

    They are many, many text throughout the OT, exhorting His people to *Peace*

    “Who is the man who desires life, and loves many days, that he may see good?’

    “Keep your tongue from evil, And your lips from speaking deceit.”

    “Depart from evil and do GOOD; Seek *PEACE* and pursue it.”
    (Psa. 34: 12-14).

    Jesus said:

    “But I say to you, *LOVE* your enemies, (Islamists et al) *BLESS* those who curse you, do *GOOD* to those who ‘HATE’ you, and pray for those who spitefuuly use you and *persecute* you.” (Matt. 5: 44)
    emphasis added.

    This is the complete *opposite* of Islam, Muhammad from the very beginning, and up until today, radical Islamists, *HATE* Christians, et al, who will not convert to Islam.

    There IS NO way that such ‘competing’ ideologies, (truth claims) could possibly come from the *same* Creator, Almighty God!

    The One True and Living God, of historic divine revelation, as given through His Church, Christianity, in its purest form, preaches the Gospel of Christ, which IS based entirely on God’s LOVE for all of mankind, and He DOES NOT compel any ONE by force, or hatred, or complusion, He gave us ALL, Free will, to either choose Him, or reject Him, NO such doctrine IS proclaimed in ISLAM, rather their agenda is one of HATRED, militant force, killings, right up until this time, i.e, Sudan et al.

    No, Hops, Christianity and Islam CANNOT both be wrong.

    The content of the Gospel of Christ, confirmed by thousands of years of Testimony, throughout the earth, in True Christians, not phoney ones, and False prophets masqurading as Christians, loudly attest to its *FRUIT* for by their fruit ye shall know them.

    Not only does the Law of Non-Contradiction confirm, who is right here, and who IS wrong, BUT, the Law of Identity, as well as The Law of Excluded Middle, stands strongly on the side of the True Christian faith!


  24. @ Again Hopi, “I have written unto you BECAUSE ye *know* the *truth* and because ye *KNOW* it, and that NO LIE is of the *TRUTH*” (I John 2: 21) emphasis added.

    Deceit, HATRED, vile animosity, ANGER, muder and KILLING of innocent children, women, et al, by the multiplied MILLIONS by Islamists in Sudan et al, against BLACK Christian men, women and children by these HATE FILLED Islamists, are a diabolical testimony to their god(s), who most certainly, could NEVER be the Almighty God of Creation, just being approached by TWO different ways!

    Absolutely not! It IS not moral, it is not TRUTH, it is a LIE!

  25. Carson C. Cadogan Avatar
    Carson C. Cadogan

    “On 16 October 1935, a barrel marked “cement” fell as it was being unloaded from ships at the port in Jaffa. The broken barrel contained guns, grenades, and ammunition and was one of many secret shipments to the underground Zionist terrorist militias in Palestine. That incident among others (including the British government collusion in marginalizing natives in Palestine while encouraging Zionist Jewish migration and takeover) led in the year after to the great Palestinian uprising of 1936.”


  26. OR………………..

    Deceit, HATRED, vile animosity, ANGER, muder and KILLING of innocent children, women, et al, by the multiplied MILLIONS by Christians in Sudan et al, against BLACK Muslim men, women and children by these HATE FILLED Islamists, are a diabolical testimony to their god(s), who most certainly, could NEVER be the Almighty God of Creation.


  27. ORโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆ..

    Deceit, HATRED, vile animosity, ANGER, muder and KILLING of innocent children, women, et al, by the multiplied MILLIONS by Christians in Sudan et al, against BLACK Muslim men, women and children by these HATE FILLED Christians, are a diabolical testimony to their god(s), who most certainly, could NEVER be the Almighty God of Creation.


  28. @Zoe………..Are there two different forms of christianity?

    Other than what others before you have written, have you personally verified this Absolute TRUTH and how?


  29. @Hopi, I’m not sure I follow your question, “Are there two different forms of Christianity?

    And, “…have you personally verified this Absolute TRUTH and how.”

    Could you please explain a bit more, exactly what you mean? So I can properly answer the intent of what you are asking!


  30. @Zoe………….You said that Historic Christianity ‘endued’ untold persecution…… But wasn’t/isn’t there another Christianity that inflicted the same untold persecution ……….upon countless and is still continuing such horrors today? Which one do you subscribe to?

    Other than the Bible how have you personally, you Zoe the man, not Zoe the Christian experience or verified ABSOLUTE Truth?


  31. @Hopi, “…But wasn’t/isn’t there another Christianity which inflicted the some untold persecution…upon countless and still continuing such horror today?

    Hopi, until you name, specifically, the “…another Christianity which inflicted the same untold persecution…upon countless…” I will not go any further! Can you name this “Christianity” what is it called?

    Further the “Christianity” that transformed my *LIFE* from the inside, from within, IS the one that The Lord Jesus Christ founded, it DOES NOT persecute people, that IS WHY I carry NO denominatioal ‘label’ or ‘tag’ as I cannot find anywhere in the NT, Jesus or His disciples giving any ‘name’ specifically to the *Church* that He said He would *build* and the gates of Hell, would not, could NOT, prevail against IT.

    Many over the Christian age, centuries, have blatantly *masquraded* under the banner of being Christian, and STILL do, sects, cults, and the like, who are NOT Christians; and that kind of subterfuge will continue right up, until Christ makes His Glorious appearance, when He will separate the true *Sheep* from the goats!

    I will answer your latter question tomorrow!


  32. Nice, “no true scotsman” logical fallacy there, Zoe

    LOL


  33. Moderators:

    Pardon a few more remarks.

    ++++++++++

    1] “No true scotsman”

    The problem here is that counterfeits exist.

    They lack key — essential –characteristics of the real thing, so pointing out that something or someone lacks such characteristics is valid in saying that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark.

    And in Christendom there have always been wolves in sheep’s clothing or, worse, in shepherd’s clothing. (Which is part of why there are certain criteria specified as marking true — albeit perhaps imperfect and struggling — from false disciples of Christ.)

    the dismissal fails.

    2] Ashekenazi vs “true” jews.

    Had the commenter troubled to examine the recent y Chromosome studies, s/he would have learned that the Ashkenazi Jews have a genetic pattern that ties them closely indeed to the oriental Jews and to the Arabs. further to this, the Kurds, from N Iraq etc — just where one might expect to find some of the famous 10 lost tribes — are also very closely related.

    3] Who “belongs” in Israel?

    Historically, for 3000+ years,t eh Jews have been closely connected tot he land, indeed there are actually villages in galilee that have never lostt heir jewish identity since the days of jesus and beyond. At the same time, there have always been people of many other races in the land, and they were welcome. For instance David’s bodyguards and one of his three leading generals were Philistine.

    The root problem today is not with Arabs being in Israel, but with islamist exclusivism and intended global hegemony. (Onlookers, observe above how when facts were laid out on this, they were simply ignored; telling us what is really going on here: hostility to Jews rather than serious engagement of a major problem, the same problem that — on the recent expose on 12,000 pp of documentation — CAIR exemplifies in the USA..)

    4] Logic, truth and knowledge

    The point of the classic laws of logic is that one cannot deny them without ending up in the absurdity of exemplifying what one wishes to deny.

    E.g. to try to deny the law of non-contradiction, one has to say what one thinks IS, and thus implies what is therefore not, and also that there is no middle position or blend of both.

    We may indeed be ignorant or confused, but that does not mean that there is not that which is so well warranted that it is credible to accept it as true; i.e knowledge (in the weaker sense).

    5: Knowledge

    In the stronger sense, try this; following Josiah Royce:

    1: Claim: “Error exists.”

    2; Denial: “it is not true that ‘error exists.’ ”

    3: But if 2 is so, 1 would be . . . an error, i.e. to deny 1 affirms it by instantiating its truth.

    4: So, 2 is self referential and in so referring to itself, contradicts itself.

    5: this is reductio ad absurdum.

    6: It is therefore warranted, true belief — knowledge in the stronger sense — that Error exists.

    7: Also, truth exists in the sense that there exists that which says of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not. [Aristotle Metaphysics 1011b]

    8: further, this is true without error. that is it is not only objectively — warranted — truth, but pure or absolute truth.

    9: We may know some things to be true beyond reasonable doubt, but that does not at all mean that we do not make errors, or that we know all that is the truth.

    10: Immediately it means that the popular radical relativism that denies the existence of unique, warranted and exclusive truth and knowledge are self-referentially incoherent. (And BTW, this includes core moral truths too . . . )

    11: going beyond such a baseline, there are a great many claims that are so well warranted that, though they are not certain beyond all reasonable dispute, they are morally certain.

    [Try to prove that your mother loves you beyond all reasonable dispute. But, by far and away most of us would be fools to doubt for an instant that our mothers love us.]

    Ah gawn . . .

    ___________

    De Dictionary


  34. Zoe………….What do you call those people who with the Cross and the Name of Jesus Christ ransacked, pillaged, looted and decimated millions of people on the Continent of Africa, North & South America? What do you call them?

    btw, Zoe…please don’t let the distractors detract you. Still waiting for your unconditional verification of Absolute Truth.

    @NS………ease up offa Zoe nah!


  35. One always have to ponder about those who constantly glean everything from a book.

    and BTW, Prior to a Jew or A-rab occupying the land now known as Palestine or Israel, it was occupied by BLACK People – the Canaanites. It was called Canaan!


  36. On October 15, 2009 at 12:03 a.m. Green Monkey posted a press release from Dwain Deets about a meeting to take place today in San Diego.

    J responds “San Diego is real, real far from Barbados man and it real, real expensive to get there, so we ain’t coming to hear the former NASA engineer, if he is a former NASA engineer. And anyhow, why did NASA let him go?


  37. On October 15th at 3:31 p.m. Terence M. Blackett wrote…Many of you probably do not know that I was a Muslim for 5 years during the years 1982 to 1987. ..I converted to Islam at a time when I was looking for some spiritual direction in my lifeโ€ฆAt the time, I was a personal friend to the nephew of Dr. Wahid Ali who was the president of the Senate in Trinidad…The Ali family were a very rich, prominent family and I worked with Feisal Ali (who was owned his own Import-Export Co;) in Port of Spain as an advisor and personal assistant…Our friendship was a close one โ€“ where he married one of girlfriends who I went to school with at Foundation…As a practicing Muslim, I was intrigued by his religious zeal, sanctity and authenticity and in 1982 I became a Muslim, discarding all of my family traditions”

    Dear Terence M. Blackett “J” thinks that between 1982 to 1987 you were a young suck-up, looking for friends among the rich, hoping that they would do for you what you should have been doing for yourself, and you were willing to discard the family and friends who had nurtured you for decades.

    You felt that the Ali’s were your friends.

    But did the Ali’s at any time DO anything to make you believe that they LOVED you?


  38. @Hopi, down through the ages people have asked the same question that Pilate asked Jesus! What is TRUTH? What exactly is it?

    The Christian ‘Faith’ trust, belief, as well as its rivals, essentially contain claims about reality, which are either True or False.Moreover, competing ‘truth claims’ especially those at the core of competing worldviews, often have different consequences for life. As C. S. Lewis put it:

    “We are now getting to the point at which different beliefs about the universe lead to different behaviour. Religion involves a series of statements about facts, which must either be TRUE or FALSE. If they are true, one set of conclusions will follow about the right sailing of the human fleet; if they are false, quite a different set.”

    This notion of truth employed in Lewis’s statement is called the “correspondence theory of truth” roughly, the idea that ‘Truth’ is a matter of a proposition (belief, thought, statement, representation) *corresponding* to reality; therefore, *Truth* obtains when *reality* is the way a proposition represents it to be.

    The Historic Judeo/Christian Worldview.

    This worldview essentially contains claims about *reality* which are either true or false.

    Therefore, any worldview, must be subjected to, and must sustain (3) test in order to be considered valid.

    1) Logical Consistency
    2) Empirical Adequacy
    3) Experiential Relevancy

    The only religious Worldview, that meet and sustain all three of these criteria, is Historic Orthodox Christianity.

    But, secondly, and intricately connected to the above criteria for validity, every system must also demonstrate and deal with the following questions:

    1)Origin
    2)Meaning
    3)Morality
    4) Destiny

    Again, the theistic Christian Worldview, is the *only* one that logically, objectively, and convincingly demonstrate and sustain to the above questions, unparalleled with any other religious worldview.

    And, Hopi, those who decimated Africa, South America et al, supposedly recognized as Christians, were nothing more than *BLATANT* masqureraders, liars, and deceivers, just like Roman Catholicism, et al, there has always, currently is, and will continue to be be, FALSE prophets, fraudsters, viciously, maligning the cause of Christ and His True Gospel; from such I want absolutely *Nothing* to do with them.

    My relationship, is NOT with a religion, it IS with the Person of The Lord Jesus Christ, and as HE said:

    “If you continue in My *Word* then ye are My disciples indeed, And ye shall *know* the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall make you FREE.” (John 8:31b-32) emphasis added.

    Like multiplied hundreds of millions over the ages, from every nation, tribe, colour and class, my brothers and sisters of ALL colours and shades, we stand collectively, with ONE voice, resolutlely , through *Logical Consistency* *Empirical Adequacy* and *Experiential Relevancy* proclaiming that we KNOW, that we KNOW, He, Jesus lives, because HE Alone, as Lord of Lords, and King of Kings, HAS done a miraculuous work in our Hearts, which can be doubted by the unbelievers and scoffers, BUT, cannot be refuted, as the evidence is there, that Jesus does transform anyone, who sincerely repents, and trust, Him by faith, reasonable, objective, coherent faith, NOT blind faith!


  39. Is the New World Order going to be more
    of the Old World Order called white
    supremacy?

    My advice is to chop up your credit cards
    buy everything in cash and use bank accounts for income and bills only with
    no surplus cash deposits..


  40. “They lack key โ€” essential โ€“characteristics of the real thing”

    ++++

    As defined by whom?

    What next, the pope is not a ‘true’ christian?

    Your attempt to dismiss the error by invoking the very same logical fallacy is laughable.


  41. @Hopi,

    Ok.


  42. Just have to love the way he/she hanged themself……thanks for the rope Hopi….nicely done!

    When it all boils down to gravy….everyone claims theirs is the true way and pull down all others…..the cycle continues.


  43. @ Zoe …
    Are you saying that you have no affiliation to any of the many religious denominations on this earth?…none whatsoever?
    That there is no label that can be placed on your correct and most rightly divided word?
    This, I find hard to believe….but hey…..whatever yanks your chain.


  44. @Zoe………Isn’t there ONE Jesus Christ? Don’t you and the pillagers worship the same Christ?

    “Religion involves a series of statements about facts, which must either be TRUE or FALSE.” Fluffy, fluffy! Zoe, can you expound with an example found within Orthodox Christianity?

    Have you personally performed the [3] test on Islam to validate/invalidate it?

    Is TRUTH provable beyond the shadow of a doubt?

    Isn’t belief itself rooted in uncertainity?

    Why does TRUTH need belief and faith? Can Truth defend herself? Can’t she stand alone?

    @Tech…….easy nah! You see how ROK made GP cuss. Leave Zoe!


  45. The Seeds of Death.

    “Allah did not create man so that he could have fun.”
    -Ayatollah Khomeini

    No right thinking society can truly be modern, civilized, or democratic if its women are *caged* and treated as second-calls citizens.

    Because of the cruel system of gender apartheid in the (overlapping) Islamic and Arab worlds, a culture of *failure* has manifested itself in virtually every facet of these societies, from the political to the economic to the social. As David Pryce-Jones observes:

    “In the years of independence, the Arabs so far made no inventions or discoveries in the sciences or the arts, no contribution to medicine or philosophy. Among those millions of quick and gifted people of individualistic outlook, and heirs to one of the world’s civilizations, hardly a single Arab has earned an international reputation except as the benificiary of his own country’s politics or his country’s oil extraction.”

    Why is this hard reality so glaringly obvious?

    Because of this failure, the males in this culture experience an agonizing sense of *humiliation* that leads, in turn, to *violent* rage. Since most of these men cannot imagine that their powerlessness stems from their culture’s misogyny (along with other dysfunctional ingredients), they rationalize it as the result of the threat of freedom from *within* and *without*.

    Therefore, they the Islamists seek to eradicate the threat of freedom from within their own culture, and destroying the examples of success and freedom that surround it, i.e., the West in general, and America and Israel in particular.

    The extremely deep-seated *humiliation* that haunts many Islamic males, plays a key role in Islamist *terror*, and this can be clearly seen in almost every statement issued by Islamist terrorists, as it echoes the raging inferno of *humiliation* that burns in the hearts of so many of these frustrated males, as well as its twin sisters , *shame* and *disgrace*. Osama bin Laden’s videotape of October 7, 2001, the first that was released after 9/11, is emblamatic of this utter dysfunctional anger and rage. He complained about the *eighty years of *HUMILIATION* and *DISGRACE* that the Islamic world had endured.

    Clearly, Bin Laden’s statement was an obvious reference to the grave offense committed by the secular Turkish leader Kemal Ataturk, who dared in the 1920s to separate religion from state ‘within’ the Islamic World. Ataturk did this primarily by abolishing the *caliphate*, the institution governing, at least in theory, the *ummah*. The ‘caliphate’ represented the line of Sunni Muslims leaders dating back to the death of Muhammad in 632. In ending this Islamic political reign, Ataturk brought Turkey into the modern age, establishing it as a secular state. It, is therefore, no surprise that Sayyid Qutb spent an enormous amount of time and enery fulminating against Ataturk. Ataturk’s act was tantamount to a declaration of war.

    In much of Islamic culture, modernization is seen not only as an enemy, but, worst still, it represents *inherent degradation*

    This terrible dysfunctionality is further compounded by the fact that this culture rejects human reason and individual responsibility as important societal values. Like *fascism* and *commmunism* Islamism sublimates the individual into the collective whole, making it virtually impossible for individuals to take any real action to fix a societal problem. Sayyid Abul A’la Maududi, a leading twentieth century Islamic thinker and activist, gave voice to this deep cultural neurosis in his writings:

    “No one has the right to become a self-appointed ruler of men and issue orders and prohibitions on his own volition and authority. To acknowledge the personal authority of human beings as the source of commands and prohibitions is tantamount to admitting him as the sharer in the Powers and Authority of God. And this is the root of all evils in the universe.”

    Just another glimmer at the Islamists world, and the roots of this very dysfunctional culture!


  46. @Hopi, I’ll answer a few of your questions tonight, the others I’ll answer tomorrow.

    “Isn’t there ONE Jesus Christ? Don’t you and the pillagers worship the same Christ?”

    Absolutely NOT, the ‘pillagers’ just like the Pharisees of Jesus day, who thought they were worshipping the One true and living God, were told in no uncertain terms who they were serving.

    Hear the Lord Jesus Christ:

    “I know that ye are Abraham’s seed (historic fact) but ye seek to kill Me, because My *Word* hath no place in you.” (Just like the ‘pillagers’)

    “Ye do the deeds (just like the ‘pillagers’) of your father.”

    “If God was your Father, ye would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do ye NOT understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear (understand) My Word.” Just like the ‘pillagers’.

    “Ye are of YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, and the lusts (desires) of your father ye will do (like the pillagers). He (the Devil) was a murderer from the beginning, and abode NOT in the TRUTH, because there IS NO truth in him. When he speaketh a LIE, he speaketh of his own; for he is a LIAR, and the father of it.”

    “And because I tell you the TRUTH, ye believe Me not.”

    “He that IS of God, heareth God’s words, ye therefore hear then NOT, because ye are NOT of God.”
    (John 8: 37; 41-45; 47) emphasis added.

    “Isn’t belief rooted in uncertainity?”

    That depends entirely on what one’s belief is! Many believe many things, that have no substance in reality, i.e., no objective, basis in cogent, coherent facts!

    A man one day in Time Square, NY, was blowing a wistle for all his life, for hours on end. Finally someone asked him why he was doing this. He answered, ‘..It keeps the elephants away..” “But, there are NO elephants around here.” “Exactly..” the man replied, “…It does keep them away…”

    His belief was strong in what he was doing, but it was not rooted in reality, nor truth!


  47. NS:

    I see you insit on going off on familiar tangents and rhetoric of polarisation, instead of getting back to focus on a clear and very present danger as outlined in the original post.

    [ONLOOKERS: Observe that no-one has been able to challenge the classic and current facts seriously. So, learn form who would face and who would dodge attending to a clear and present danger.]

    A follow up, then, by way of concession: I take it you accept that counterfeiting is a real possibility.

    On that premise, I then invite you to look at the main points of definition of authentic Christian faith, from the classic loci in the — demonstrably [cf Rylands c. 125 AD. . . ] — C1 NT:

    _____________

    1 –> Sermon on the Mount Mt 5 – 7; which outlines personal ethics of discipleship.

    2 –> 1 Cor 13: 1 – 7, amplifying on just what Agape-love, the cornerstone of Judaeo-Christian Ethics, is about. [Cf Matt 22:34 – 40 and the related parable of the Good Samaritan on the two great commandments from which moral law hangs.] I cite personal ethics first as this is where wolfish characteristics will soon enough show up. (Rom 13:1 – 10 in light of Daniel Chs 1 – 6, is a first step on the ethics of citizenship and civil authority, but the subject is a bit more difficult and builds on the above. Lesson 2, perhaps?)

    3 –> 1 Cor 15:1 – 11 summarises the core gospel message and its 500+ eyewitness anchored historical authentication, recorded within 25 years of the event. Ac 17: 16 – 34 shows how this message comes across to a culture that professing itself to be intellectually superior has failed to find the knowledge of the foundational reality, in the teeth of blatant evidence in the world around and in the inner life of man with mind and conscience..

    4 –> The Great Commission, Matt 28:16 – 20, which is the charter of the church: to bear witness to Christ in the nations, to disciple them and to teach them the way of Christ (in large part as just outlined). Also, cf. Lk 47: , which joins the issues of commitment to Christ and repentance from the ways of sin: forgiveness and transformation through discipleship are en Christo.

    5 –> Beyond that, we may note how the works of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit — one fruit, many pegs — are manifest and manifestly different, including Uncle James’ warning here on presuming to teach without first focussing on crucifying sinful passions and their works.

    6 –> Of course an onward “shut-you -up”rhetorical tactic is to imply or assert hypocrisy. Struggle to grow is a characteristic of life, and is not to be confused with hypocrisy. That is why Jesus’ counsel in the above linked sermon [in Mt 7:1 – 5] assumes that one will struggle with sawdust and planks and then counsels us to work on our own struggles as a premise for helping others with theirs. Anyone who walks in the path of virtue will instantly recognise the pattern.

    ______________

    That is, this stuff on true disciples vs wolves in sheep’s or shepherds’ clothing is not too hard to identify, if you are willing to face some challenging ethical issues squarely.

    ++++++++++

    Okay, can we now get back to the issue of a clear and present danger that is documented here tot he tune of 12,000 pp in the recent investigative report? And, with a considerable lot of history and classical texts on the same theme?

    [Onlookers, think about what it means if someone insists on refusing to look at a clear and present danger because it does not fit his/her preconceptions. ]

    De Dictio0nary.


  48. @Hopi, “Religion involves a series of statements about facts, which are either TRUE or FALSE.” Fluffy, fluffly! Zoe, can you expound with an example found within Orthodox Christianity?”

    No other religious movement on earth, has had the observable effects, both *possitive* i.e., the multitudes from every nation, who sincerely repented and followed Christ, and *negative* those who resisted, fought against it, like Christianity has, this is a fact!

    When Jesus said:

    “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples (without distinction) unto Me.” (John. 12:32).

    He was obviously referring to His crucifixion, Death on the Cross for ALL mankind. “This He said, signifying what death he He should die.” (v.33).

    His Resurrection confirmed absolutely who He claimed to be, God of very God;
    thereafter His Great Commission given to His disciples prior to His ascension.

    “And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you (His disciples) while I was yet with you, that ALL things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prohets, and in the psalms, concerning ME.”

    “Then opened He their understanding, that they might *understand* the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it IS written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to RISE from the dead the third day.”

    And that repentance and remission of SINS should be preached in His name among *ALL* nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are *witnesses* of these things.”

    And, behold, I send the promise of My Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, *until* ye be endued with *Power* from on high.” (Luke 24: 44-49)

    The utter historic reality of what then happened and transpired, on the Day of Pentecost, (Acts 2: 1-47) was an historic fulfillment of Jesus promise to His disciples (Luke 24:49) “…ye be endued with *POWER* from on high,”

    Without the Coming of The Holy Spirit, who endued them with *POWER* nothing would have happened, as the Supernatural *Power* of Almighty God was/is required to begin, continue, and fulfill the Great Commission, to preach the Gospel of Christ, to ALL nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

    The historic *facts* regarding this ‘Truth Claim” beginning on the Day of Pentecost, has NEVER ceased, can NEVER stop, no matter how much persecution, torture, and killings of Christians that have been targeted at His people, for as Jesus said,

    “For He Himself has said, “I will NEVER leave you nor forsake you,” So we many boldly say: “The Lord is my helper, I will not fear, what can man do to me?” (Heb. 13: 5b, 6).

    From then, circa 37 AD, up until this very day, througout the nations of the world, every *colour* of mankind represents the glorious Gospel of Christ, in the *power* of the Holy Spirit, and no matter who dispises and rejects it, NO one can stop the work of Almighty God, in, by, and through the Resurrected, Ascended, living Saviour and Lord, Jesus Christ.

    Here is *Logical Consistency* *Empirical Adequacy* AND *Experiential Relevancy* throughout 2,000 years of Christianity, it can be decried, scoffed at, BUT, it cannot be refuted by any sensable, reasonable, honest thinking person!

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