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Submitted by Yardbroom

israel-palestineAs the bombs rain down on the heads of women and children in Gaza…over 460 Palestinians have been killed, to be fair as well as Hamas fighters.  One is tempted to ask when will it all end, but before that question is answered we should ask ourselves when did it begin…I will not venture into Biblical history.  I am also aware of the Hamas rockets fired on the Israeli cities including Sderot and Ashkelon.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation –human beings are being killed – what cannot be denied is that after the Second World War the world disgusted with themselves for the treatment  the Jews suffered, sometimes with the acquiesce of some world powers and silence from others.  Sought to redress the wrongs suffered by the Jews, in so doing it was the Palestinians who had to pay… and they did with their land.  When the Israelis are asked how come you are entitled to these lands, they retort – God gave it to us, it is written in the Bible.  They are not many people today who can show title to land they hold by reference to the Bible in a court of Law…but that is bye the bye.

That Israeli is entitled to live in peace is so obvious that is is not worth stating but so are the Palestinians.

We have had so many Palestinian “bogey men”  who if they were killed or were out of the way all would be sweetness and light but they were killed or died…and there is no sweetness or light.

Do you remember Yasser Arafat, Ariel Sharon said he was an obstacle to peace and without his presence a settlement would ensue.  Arafat is long dead and new fighters and leaders have taken his position.  Do you remember Hamas Sheikh Ahmed Yassin the nearly blind paraplegic who was assassinated by an Israeli helicopter gunship in 2004 he was said to be an obstacle to peace he is gone and yet there is no peace.

The shrouds have been wrapped around babies and they entombed.  Mothers beat their breast and wail, the bombs rain down..there is no peace.

Conflicts have been settled and the world moves on, but I fear the Israeli Palestinian conflict will “grind” on for many a year.  There will be no peace for the price of that peace is an acceptance that the other side is entitled to live in peace and harmony; bold is he/her who will predict that they will see peace in their lifetime in the Holy Land…I fear I will not see it, however there are always surprises in war.


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384 responses to “Palestinians Continue To Pay A Penalty For The World's Misdeeds”


  1. Hopi:

    Your post is ambiguous made moreso by ru4real’s response.

    Confirm , if you believe, that the Khartoum regime with the aid of PRC is “pacifying” Dharfur, and the CIA is fighting a losing battle in backing the SLA against them.


  2. @ ru4real

    Maybe part of the reason why so much attention is given to the actions of Israel is that we have been bombarded for years about the horrors inflicted on the Jews by the Nazis. Holocaust museums, Hollywood films, books, magazine articles etc. continue to remind us of the horrors they endured 60 years ago and that we must “never forget” this injustice. So that now when we see Jews behaving towards Palestinians in much the same manner as Nazis behaved towards them (see http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/palestinians.html?q=palestinians.html ), we tend to go “What the f*** is up with that?”

    To all the religious Bible believers, I want no part of a God that allegedly tells us “Thou shalt not kill” and “Thou shalt not steal” and then asks mankind to do his dirty work for him by killing fellow human beings (even babes in arms at times) and stealing their land from them. If God wanted Jews either now or in the Old Testament days to take possession of land held by others, I say he, as mankind’s alleged creator, can do the dirty work himself, as he apparently did in this example:

    31And it came to pass, as he made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them; 32 and the earth opened its mouth, and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. 33 So they, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into Sheol: and the earth closed upon them, and they perished from among the assembly. 34 And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them; for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up. 35 And fire came forth from Jehovah, and devoured the two hundred and fifty men that offered the incense.

    http://asvbible.com/numbers/16.htm

    Maybe Moses just slipped up and forgot to add the phrase “unless God gives you the OK first” at the end of all the “Thou shalt nots”.


  3. @ST……Not good enough! How do you go from ‘dead wrong’ to ‘ambiguous.’ I don’t agree that China is pacifying Darfur and yes the CIA is fighting a losing battle and rightly so. And right now China has the western vipers at bay. But my whole premise is that this is the Perpetual Scramble for Africa. Isn’t it? And now we could be seeing a new coloniser! I hope not.


  4. GP, I think you are heping my point. One’s seed is the product of his sperm…all the product of one’s sperm, not just of an isolated incident.


  5. I do understand what you are saying Juris but one sperm also results in one’s seed. Like I have two sons- two seeds. Thats the interpretation.


  6. Straight talk // January 8, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    ru4real:

    I don’t know how much you have researched the Darfur situation, but your analysis belies every known fact.

    China is the instigator for the genocide, to remove the infidel Christians from the oil rich province.

    Hopi is dead wrong on this, as the CIA are financing the SLA, to counter the PRC’s incursion and control of African Oil.

    The mad scramble for cheap oil reserves will bring about WW3.
    ——————————————
    Who told you that one?
    So the Islamists are just killing their fellow Africans for fun then?


  7. ru4real:

    Not fun, Oil.

    Chad too.


  8. To all those who support Israel, this is pathetic:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7817135.stm

    Is that little hole in the roof top made from a rocket? No Casualties?

    Is that your average house in Israel?


  9. @ Juris,
    I see that ‘Saved’ et al has been offering you advice on ‘understanding the bible’.

    Just for the record, Bush Tea would like to explain the correct situation in that regard…..
    What understand what bible what?!?
    Don’t waste your time. Juris.

    The bible was deliberately designed to defy such comprehension.
    Quite apart from the obvious fact that such brilliant minds as yours, MME’s, BAFBFP’s, GP’s and many others in our blogging family clearly do not understand it, It actually says so…

    ….and it says WHY!! …..because it is NOT intended for these things to be determined from an intellectual standpoint.
    One recalls that Jesus spoke extensively in parables. These were used to confuse those listening to him – ‘least they understood’… and so that ” seeing, they saw not… and hearing, they heard not…”

    What I can assure you though, is that should you (or even a much less brilliant mind- like Bush Tea) GENUINELY seek to understand truth, that such TRUTH would be revealed to you. At such time, you will be amazed at the logic, brilliance and ingenuity of the whole plan…. as I have been for some time now.

    …This just reinforces the brilliant genius of BBE. Any other arrangement would permit the clear geniuses among us – like MME, ReEngineer, ST and BWWR for example, to have unfair advantage- through their sharp intellects, over the rest of us ordinary folks…

    It is a level playing field in understanding the rules of the eternal.

  10. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    Chris Thron likens it to the way we MME’s might go about the design of a modern wireless communication system:

    “Here are some of the problems which the designer must solve:

    – The system must accommodate simultaneous transmission of information to multiple recipients;

    – The system must reliably transmit information in spite of interference from other sources;

    – The system, though built of unreliable components, must be more reliable than the individual components which it comprises.

    Now, God faced similar issues when He designed His Word, to wit:

    – The Bible, though a single message, is expressed simultaneously to multiple recipients with different cultural and social backgrounds;

    – The Bible must communicate His intentions in spite of other intelligent agents (demonic or human) who willfully or accidentally corrupt His message;

    – The Bible, though transmitted via human beings who are intrinsically error-prone and unreliable, must be more reliable than the individuals through which it was transmitted.”

    From “God’s Communication Design Of The Bible”, Chris Thron, http://www.quodlibet.net/thron-communication.shtml


  11. Bush Tea

    You are again correct You are essentially saying what is written in 1 Cor 2:14. That is that spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Pick up the sense from this verse by reading the passage 1 Cor 2:7-14. Note a mystery is a truth not revealed in the OT.

    But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

    V 14 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


  12. should i study the koran too?


  13. Jesus Christ, wah all dis cussin’ and arguing about?

    AAAAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhh


  14. god has written much recently


  15. ?


  16. if eve did not eat the apple, what then?


  17. 1,000, 000 lost in Rwanda in ethnic conflict. Thousands and thousands in the ‘Democratic’ Republic of Congo, plus thousands of lost children kidnapped to slavery (where did they go?); 300,000 black Christians in Darfur, and later when the CHristians were gone turning to black Muslims; no quantification of the kidnappings of the children in Darfur or in the Democratic Republic of Congo for about the last 10 years, slavery in the Kingdom of Mauritania; failure of the African Union to solve ethnic and tribal massacres. That is not a full list- it is only what the recent news chose to show- there are many more instances that one can enumerate. The level of human life lost as a result of famine and war in Africa, Iraq and Afghanistan dwarfs what is going on in Gaza, just as the level of loss in Sri Lanka is almost certtainly in excess of these amounts. But it is still not a justification- it is an andictment for Israel to lead the way towards an end to conflict as it has done by 242 and Oslo, and Camp David accord with Arafat, which all shuld google and see what was offered, and rejected.

    None of this is certainly not a justification for war, in Gaza or elsewhere. War is humanity’s folly, and shows that humanity is not a smart as humanity would like to think that it is. So *I* do not seek to justify any war at this stage. It is a great tragedy to all humanity that lives are lost in wars and other unproductive, non-democratic ways like these.

    I think that the Gaza war shows Israel, a Jewish State, to be fallible, like the rest of the other countries. For what profit war? For what reason the persons seeking to *justify* or *demonise* either side on this blog, in the media or in the greater planet?

    The focus of the world rests on Israel because Jews are *expected* to be better than the rest. That being so, *I* expect and wish Israel to live up to the world’s *expected* standards and move back out of Gaza, even though it probably means allowing rockets to be fired upon it for another 5 years, and a buildup of lethal weapons from neighbours.

    There is no point Israel fighting there; Hamas will seek to sacrifice as many innocent people as it can as strategy and tactics.

    There can be no profit to: either Gazans who want peace; neither to Israelis who also want peace. Peace is the answer. *We* can’t remember what was the question?


  18. I agree with MME’s analogy of the design of a modern wireless communications system to God’s Word, the Bible; written by (fallible) men, BUT, divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit (infallible).

    The mystery of how God communicated His, infallible, inerrant, Word to us, not by passing the cultural, educational, and others aspects of human frailty, is something only Almighty God could do.

    Therefore, while the sense of scripture is objectively given and determinable by exegesis, it must be discriminated nonetheless by the aid of the same Holy Spirit, by whom it was first communicated. In any event, the text precludes identifying the content of Scripture as an original product of human writers.

    This is why the man/woman who has not being regenerated ‘spiritually’ by the indwelling Holy Spirit, has such a hard time understanding much of what is communicated therein, especially regarding the deeper revelation of many aspects of theology.

    But, God has allowed mankind, and endowed him with enough intellect, basic reason and faith, that even in his fallen state spiritually, we can recognize the hand and will of God, as He speaks to us through His ‘Word’ the bible.


  19. This foolishness about the Bible written by men inspired by God and being God’s word.

    My only question is, were these the only people inspired by God? We are all God’s work and inspired by non other than God. Nothing without God. Every word that we speak is God’s word.

    The Bible is nothing but a history of the Hebrews, Israelites and Jews; not the ones we know today as Jews. It is no more important that the ancient writings of the Hindus and the Muslims and certainly it cannot be a universal book to which all mankind must convert.

    Those who perpetrate that thought are doing the world a great dis-service. I think you better find out who Christ is real fast and who the God of the Bible is too, ’cause a serious fraud has been perpetrated on our people. They are now brainwashed to the point where they will not discuss it, but get all emotional and upset. I wonder why?


  20. We find it interesting that the USA abstained in the UN Security Council yesterday. If the USA wants to support its position as the leader of the free world isn’t this an issue that requires a leadership position? Instead the USA is the only member of the council that took a decision to abstain, all others voted for an Israeli fallback position.

    How does this position Obama as a proponent of change? Is he painted into a corner or …?


  21. Obama, in spite of everything, has to follow the “written” script. Yes, he can…follow the script.


  22. Fool
    ‘War’ is when two or more relatively matched sides confront e o. Everything is is slaughter, invasion, occupation. Don’t mix up things


  23. David,

    What else could the USA do. It could not vote for it because that would be admitting that they are propping up atrocities, nor could they vote against it, because that would mean a commit to action to ensure te cease fire.

    What does this tell you. Don’t look for a cease fire. Alternatively, the conscience of the USA could be pricked to the extent that they secretly make the Israelis stop. You think the latter is true?


  24. @David et al…

    Please let us not overlook that the USA did *not* veto the resolution. The resolution passed. Unlike past resolutions.

    IMHO, this “inaction” is actually a major step forward, particularly considering it was done under Bush’s watch.

    @ROK: “Don’t look for a cease fire.

    I humbly disagree. And pray for you to be wrong.


  25. Chris,

    I hope you are right for Obama’s sake… but I wonder if this is an achievement or if this is really a case of USA quietly absenting themselves until the furor dies down.

    We have seen this type of action before, where a country in the face of internation opinion decides it will do what it wants don’t care who say what.

    If indeed the USA does cause the ceasefire, it could only be credited to Obama. Ceratinly if McCain was elected, there would be no cease fire.


  26. We have the Obama administration which just won an election built on HOPE YES WE CAN.
    We have the Bush administration who can’t wait to get out of Pennsylvania Avenue.
    We have a world which has become increasingly intolerant to the heavy handedness of Israel.

    Obama has enough Jews in his camp to send a message that Israel needs to relax if his agenda is not to be rail roaded even before he enters office. The script to follow makes for interesting theatre.


  27. Another question/concern we have. If USA and Europe can recognize dictatorships and undemocratically elected governments across the globe, why couldn’t they recognize HAMAS which was democratically elected by the PEOPLE?

    Another question: Why after withdrawing Israeli occupation from Gaza a little while back Israel promptly settled on the West Bank which must be interpreted as an aggressive move.

    Final question: How can 1.4 million people live with independence and pride if Israel as tapped them as a source of cheap labour and converted the Palestinian population as nothing more than mendicants? What does this do to the psyche of the PEOPLE?

    We make no apology to say that BU sympathies are with the Palestinian people. This is another example as in the case of Pakistan/India and Iraq/Iran how the former colonialists have destroyed a PEOPLE by drawing lines on a map.


  28. Funny how those that have been ‘conquered by the cross’ are constantly assigning their gender to ‘God.’ He,His, He,He. No wonder there’s been so much havoc on this planet for so long. He must have been caught in mid-heaven pissing drunk.No female ‘God’ would have sat back and allowed her children to be devoured for so long. Come on ‘men’ awaken your stupor. Black people have been on this planet for so long and in steps king james that homosexual pedophile, with a bible and Black men suddenly found their souls. SHAME ON YOU!

    This ideology of the US being a beacon of light and democracy is an ILLUSION. This great whore is pimped by the bankers most of whom are zionists, therefore she had no choice but to support her pimp. If anyone thinks that BaRat Obama will be any different get out ya tin foil hat. He is a WOLF IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING, A JEWDAS. These ‘jews’ are in his camp to control him.


  29. Carlos,

    the bible is written by fallible men but inspired by an infallible god.

    so is the bible infallible?

    which version?

    which canon?


  30. @ Not Saved, yes, the Canon of God’s Word, the Bible, is infallible.

    Regarding your question, “Which version?”

    Its important to understand that all ‘versions’ are ‘translated’ from the Hebrew and Greek text, and NOT from any other language, in other words, no version is translated from say, English to French, or from French to German, BUT, always from the original languages of Hebrew and Greek, thereby using the manuscripts from the Hebrew and Greek text.

    The word ‘canon’ which is generally used to describe the collection of New Testament books, therefore, NOT more than one ‘canon’ but, we have many ‘versions’ of this ‘one’ New Testament canon, as divinely inspired and recorded in the Greek manuscripts.

  31. Rev Dr. Dick Hertz Avatar
    Rev Dr. Dick Hertz

    I find it absurd that the present day Israeli, most of whom are from Europe and North Africa (Askenazic Jews and Sephardimic Jews) can somehow fool the world that they are the original jews belonging to the lands of the 12 tribes of Israel! These Europeans wanted a refuge from the pogroms inflicted by their fellow Europeans and displaced the Palestinians who are probably closer to the original Jews who were displaced thousands of years from the Levant than the modewrn day Israeli.


  32. Nothing from aramaic?

    You sure only one translation?
    You sure all came from greek or hebrew?

    The KJV came from the latin vulgate, no? which came from one of many greek translations? no?

    was the latin vulgate translated from a “good” greek version?

    you sure only one canon? of the OT? better check that.

    Is there even only one version of the OT?

    The NT comes from which greek manuscripts? the originals? do the originals still exist?

    there are about 5700 greek manuscripts in existence containing NT books, no?

    if they dont agree which should I treat as infallible?


  33. @ Not Saved; are you really interested in knowing the ‘Truth’ or are you just trying to play games?

    Are you questions really genuine?


  34. Another question/concern we have. If USA and Europe can recognize dictatorships and undemocratically elected governments across the globe, why couldn’t they recognize HAMAS which was democratically elected by the PEOPLE?
    ————————————
    Hitler and Mussolini were democratically elected and look what happened there.


  35. why is your ‘truth’ in inverted commas?

    what ‘truth’ were you planning to teach me?

    what makes a question, “genuine”? does it matter if you know the answer?


  36. NT, thought you’d answer like that, could not hide for long could you?


  37. Jesus said:

    “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of LIGHT. But, if your eye is BAD, your whole body will be full of DARKNESS. If therefore the light that is in YOU is DARKNESS, how great is that DARKNESS.” (Matt. 6.22) emphasis added.

    “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall KNOW the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall make you FREE.” (John. 8:31b-32).


  38. Carlos,

    I asked you a question on the thread about the elderly and I see you did not respond. You plan to help that old man that did not get his pension? There are other alternatives which he most likely qualifies for.


  39. @ru4real? ……Dubya was supposedly ‘elected’ in the beacon of democracy and look what is happening there, in former Mesopotamia, Afghanistan. What harm has Hamas done to the Palestinians? Can’t you see that under Dubya the ‘New World Order’ which has been in place for over 2k yrs is running full speed ahead? They are in the open now.


  40. John wrote that?


  41. ru4real
    You compare Hamas with Hitler and Mussolini… yah p@#%y


  42. My God, whah all dis fighting ’bout…!

    AAAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhh


  43. Hamas is a terrorist group that is banned in most of Europe and in some Arab nations.
    In fact Arab nations have widely condemned them for their provocation of Israeli and their lack of care for the Palestinian people.
    They are nothing more than a puppet of the Iranians who supply them with arms.


  44. More
    Mahmoud Abbas the Palestinian President said today that the Palestinian people want peace. They do not want the conflict instigated by Hamas with it’s high price in blood and lives. They would prefer to live alongside Israel in peace in a two state solution.
    Just for the record I watched him say this in a news report. It was not Israeli propaganda.
    The Palestinian people of Gaza are being used as cannon fodder by Hamas.


  45. @ ru4real stop attacking Hamas and defending those Isreali pigs.

    This conflict is over land, the Palestinians are are the original Isrealis .The holocaust rejects and jews from Europe migrated to isreal .With the backing of USA and Europe they started the nonsense which continued up to this very day.


  46. It amaises that there are actually ru4reals still left in this world. They decide who is terrorist and who is not. Nincumpoop, peace is easy to call for, its justice and equality that takes blood to achieve. Ass.


  47. Make no mistake this all out offensive has everything to do with the change in US government, as Hopi must have alluded to earlier. Create an incident that becomes the excuse to start and offensive. Censor the information out and in and … by the time BarRat takes over US foreign policy the mess would have been settled in Israel’s favour.


  48. BAFBFP
    As we used to say at school. You didnt have to call the man by his name, man.


  49. Israelis are not pigs, neither apes. That is racist. Name-calling in the basest language should be regulated.

    This thread has not been conducted in a way to promote aleviating suffering, or finding solutions and making peace; it is an exercise in propoganda and racism.

    Comments border on insane and are full of hatred. It is not rationale to spend one’s time promoting hatred and destruction. And it will not lead to peace.


  50. My input would go back before the Bible.. have we all lost these simple words compassion, humanity, love…. the bible it speaks to love, care and goodness as well as the above, and the also the opposite like evil. The Israelis/Jews seem to have lost there way. When you speak to Israel you speak of a land owed to them because the Bible says so.. and that all other lands in this world were free for the taking because it said so, damn you mean i missed the boat, I could have fought and owned Russia, China, Egypt..hummm…

    Remember the full context of the bible is not and will not be made available for the public viewing, as it has been documented, that if man is to know all, then he will not be able to handle the truth..

    The land of the world is owned by no one, but greed and domination but others restrict the land of the world to tribes divided up into now countries. When Hitler decided to eliminate what he deemed as the un-pure he started his ethnic cleansing with not only Jews but other groups.. The jews made sure there plight was highlighted and they emigrated in multitudes in the USA, good for them… The also dictate a lot of what happens in the US, good for them… The Israel want full control of the Gaza strip and will try to convince the world that their cause is just and that they are the last port for democracy within in that region.

    Hummmm pause for a minute..

    The Israel slaughter 400 plus in the name of who?

    Hiltler slaughtered in the name of who?

    The Israelis are hiding behind the Bible and all those who just love to Bible bash are doing the same thing…
    That is not there real reason for killing all those Palistines, if the Israelis believed in the Bible so much this conflict who have ended and peace would have been destowed So the Bible has nothing to do with it.

    If you said Greed, Power, Domination, Elimination of a small group who are in the way to achieve the goal. Then the answer would be yes.. The Israelis are on there way to achieving their goal with on one to stop them..

    If Hitler was wiping out the Jews in this time-line (today), would you stand idly by watching and agreeing with the annihilation of a race of peoples?.. Is land worth more than life?

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