For members of the BU family who are not confined to navel gazing and would cast eyes across the pond.
Projection of Seats: Conservatives 368 Labour 191 SNP 55 LD 13 – Majority of 86
Boris and Conservatives Win BIG
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396 responses to “Boris and Conservatives Win BIG”
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The SNO has read their performance in the election as a mandate to have a referendum to leave the UK. It will get interesting from here.
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After it has held the referendum to leave the UK, it will then need to hold a second referendum to rejoin the EU once the UK Brexits and it is a member at the time the UK Brexited.
Saner heads will prevail!!
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@John
Why would they have to hold another referendum? The success of SNP was based on a platform message of not leaving the EU.
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David
December 15, 2019 11:49 AM@John
Why would they have to hold another referendum? The success of SNP was based on a platform message of not leaving the EU.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Scotland is a part of the UK
If the UK exits unless some special provision for Scotland is made, Scotland is out and needs to get back in if it gets to go it alone.
Found the link relating to 1975 referendum for remaining in the EU or was it the EEC after Britain had joined in 1972.
France had vetoed its membership until then,
The Conservatives took the UK in. now they are taking the UK out.
Back then they held a referendum and found surprise, surprise that support was more than 2:1.
Except in Northern Ireland (~52%) and Scotland (~61%) where it was less.
Once the English are promoting a position the Irish will oppose!!!!!
Nature, the Irish will be the Irish, suspect I have a touch too!!
Forty odd years later, support for membership is about evenly split, small majority favouring BREXIT.
So what does that tell you will happen in a referendum in another 40 years if the UK remains in the EU?
It also puts paid to PLT’s theory about the old people wanting to leave and the young people wanting to stay!!
The “old fogeys” when they were young in 1975 are the ones who took the UK in!!
Hal may have been one of those old fogeys who want to stay!!
Hal, are you one of PLT’s old fogeys?
Did you vote?
Amazing that PLT doesn’t seem to realise he is an old fogey too and his position with the other old fogey on here, Hal!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum
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Amazing that PLT doesn’t seem to realise he is an old fogey too and his position with the other old fogey on here, Hal!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Omitted IS CONSISTENT!!
Amazing that PLT doesn’t seem to realise he is an old fogey too and his position IS CONSISTENT with the other old fogey on here, Hal!!
It’s the young lions who want to leave the EU and as the old fogeys die out the support for membership is dwindling.
That makes sense, they are the ones who are fed up with the EU taking a cut of their spoils.
Now I freely admit I am an old too but if I were I were a citizen of the UK I would vote BREXIT.
So, I am either a young lion in old clothes or Irish!!
I think I have a touch of the latter, bur, that is not to say I am not young … at heart anyway!!
Could also of course be an old lion!!
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In 1972 when the UK joined the EU, the world was essentially socialist.
The Comintern had sought to promote world communism and a “one world” government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_International
Spies like Kim Philby et al in the UK were exposed as time went on and with the collapse of Soviet Russia and the fall of the Berlin wall all that was left were brainwashed persons in all countries.
But they are a dying breed.
Let’s call it the deep state.
They are the last vestige of the export of the communist experiment in Russia although they don’t seem to realise it.
They watch while all their work is being dismantled by young and old lions because their ideology has only created misery.
All the time their end is approaching and they can do nothing about it.
They have no faith, believe religion is useless and become miserable.
Their response is one last fling to destabilise and undermine the “New World Order” which will inevitably replace their “Old World Order”
The attempt to get rid of Trump from the beginning is their presentation of a desperation for self preservation.
But, trouble Trump and it releases his relentless and ruthless pursuit of the deep state’s exposure.
I think that is what we are watching unfold in the US and UK.
The US is pretty well advanced.
The number of persons who can’t be brainwashed is on the increase.
They are sometimes referred to as deplorables.
BTW, I am not saying the “New World Order” is without its flaws, anything involving mankind is!!
All I am trying to do is to account for the changes we are seeing.
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@ John
Neither of the 1974 genera elections was about EEC membership. The February election was called by Heath about who ruled the country. I voted not for Wilson, but against Heath. I did not vote in the October election.
But to correct one of your points, historically the Labour party has always been anti-EEC, EU, which is why Corbyn was caught in that old trap.
The world has moved on and Britain will not survive outside a powerful union, preferably the EU the biggest market in the world, 500m, and the only one to keep China and the US under control.
What I find intriguing is that not once did Boris or his clique talked about the Commonwealth, the biggest political bloc in the world. Wonder why? -
@ John Q
I harbour no hatred against people, but I hate racism.
It makes all people ugly, irrespective of colour, it scars our aura.
About 30 percent of the people who are the hardline voters for Trump are racists or have a keenly advanced type of xenophobia which has a colour bias!
The United Kingdom notwithstanding Ms. Markle, is similarly disposed with a higher baseline.
I know that you wont like my description but, today, you will not be your “self” which will complexion your query.
But yes, you must take me seriously.
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@John
“… PLT doesn’t seem to realise he is an old fogey too…”
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I am just a couple of months younger than you John, which does make me an old bourgeois fogey just like you. The difference between us is that I am a traitor to both my class and my age cohort… I have thrown my lot in with the poor and the young. -
@ Hal Austin December 15, 2019 8:41 AM
“They are racist, arrogant, incompetent and full of themselves on taxpayers money. Just look at the BBC how many African (black) faces do you see on camera? And, believe me, there are even fewer behind the cameras>”
I am curious. What percentage of blacks make up the British population? The Poles fought in the RAF and there were Polish divisions that fought against the Nazis in world war two. The Polish migrants are treated in a very bad way by the British. So how did you expect that they would treat blacks? It is their country and if they do not want blacks and other cultures co-mingling, there is nothing that you can do about the matter. Laws can be passed to counter racism but the laws seldom work in the long run. You cannot stop some one thinking racist thoughts As I said earlier this year, to be British means the co-mingling of groups over hundreds of years who develop an ethos about cultural norms that they use to define nationalism. The Globalist view as favored by Soros .Corbyn and the BBC seek to do away with the nation state and national identity. It was bound to fail. A people will not voluntarily give op their sense of. national identity. You can shout about racism as much as you like ,it is their country and the right to preserve their cultural is to be expected. The world is turning against multiculturalism and political correctness.
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Hope John is watching Fareed’s show now being telecast.
One of the panelist is of the view now that Boris has been given a 5 year term he will separate from Trump and move closer to the other world leaders.
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@ PLT
What is your class?
@ Robert
You do not know what you are talking about. The Poles that fought in the second world war are different to those who came after the collapse of communism. Just to remind you, black people too pay for the BBC. Maybe you can tell me about Barbados national identity.
I suggest you watch CNN and learn more about the UK as others do. -
@Hal
I was born bourgeois. -
This man is of the mistaken view he knows everything. A pity he could not forecast the rejection of Corbynism and Labour last week.
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@PLT
I am not sure if this is a joke. We a re all black and descendants of slaves. At most, many of us are two, three at most four generations away from slavery. We are not bourgeois, but working class black people weho had a bit of luck. You cannot move in and out of class. A university degree or a big home does not mean you are no longer working class.
That is the problem in Barbados. The sons and daughters of carpenters, messengers, cane cutters, etc became lawyers and suddenly they feel no longer part of the working class. I know one top lawyer whose father was a messenger and he would not even allow his children to visit the Ivy, where he grew up.
You are not bourgeois, @PLT, you are one lucky bugger of a working class guy. Get real. -
@Hal
That’s an interesting perspective, but it is contradicted by decades of research and discourse about intergenerational social class mobility. I don’t really have any argument with you however, because a) I am one lucky bugger, and b) my sympathies are entirely with the disenfranchised and oppressed of the world. -
@Hal,
spot on Hal, spot on.
for those who say that you dont what know what you are talking about i would advise them to bugger off.
and for a so called educated man Robert Lucas posts a lot of right wing nonsense.
and yes you are right in regard to black people 3-4 generations removed from slavery
Corbyn wanted out of the EU but could say so, hence the crap about seeking a deal and then a 2nd referendum
this was a v good election for Labour to lose. they get rid of Corbyn and lying vacuous Boris has to deal with Brexit which wont be easy if doable at all.
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@greene
Your view is not surprising, it is winter lol.
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@PLT
There is no research on class that shows that you can emerge from a working class background simply because of a degree and big house. Britain has the most sophisticated research on class and its entire mind set is race. Look at the analysis of Brexit ie the Northern Tory voters (remember Nixon’s Southern strategy?) If there is one thing Marx got right it was his class analysis.
@ GreeneYou are right. @Robert sometimes says the most right wing things, which is fine, it is when they get the history and sociology wrong. They are people who Google, watch CNN and BBC World and think they have a better understanding than people who live the experience everyday.
Do you notice how people in Barbados always set out to contradict people who live in the UK and experience life daily, yet if people in the UK talk about Barbados they attack them? I call it the Bajan Condition.
Decades ago I had an old labour law lecturer, an old English guy sadly no longer with us, and he told a room of us that one way of testing the credibility and authority of reports (he was referring to the media) was to analyse what they reported about a subject with which you had knowledge. I thought it a good idea and applied it to what we called then race relations.
I now apply it to Brexit, especially the nonsense on CNN and the racism of the BBC, which @robert seems to think is fine. He talks about identity politics, totally forgetting that he lives in a former colony. Is what he is saying relevant to the reparations debate? One principle of politics is that you take the lead from the people at the sharp end. It is a lesson @robert should remember.
As I write I am watching the Sports Personality of the Year. Watch out for the results. -
@Hal
I did not say that I had “emerge[d] from a working class background simply because of a degree and big house.” I said I was born to a bourgeois family; in other words I was simply “one lucky bugger.”For the contemporary research on intergenerational class mobility you can see, for example: The Relation between Inequality and Intergenerational Class Mobility in 39 Countries by Florian R. Hertel and Olaf Groh-Samberg
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0003122419885094 -
@ PLT
Cut out the bogus sociology. You are a working class guy who has done well. You are not bourgeois. Why were you born bourgeois? Because your father was a doctor? Stop fooling yourself.
You are suffering from the same social class confusion as the lawyer class, who daily rob ordinary people. I call it the betrayal of the Barrow generation. That is the problem in Barbados. Stop betraying your class and Googling nonsense. -
@ Hal
I do not watch CNN and have limited my exposure only to the news and science programs on the BBC. I watch the Duran and others like Black listed news .org. By the way I was at Combermere from 1956-1966 ( I was nine when I first entered). I don’t know if you remember Mr. Earlam ( he got married to Ms. Mottley) who came down to teach chemistry and set up the chemistry lab. He was really good, the University when ever it didn’t have specific chemicals for organic chemistry, would borrow from Combermere. There was a power outage about half an hour ago and one last night about 2.00 am.
@ Greene December 15, 2019 3:03 PM
“and for a so called educated man Robert Lucas posts a lot of right wing nonsense”
As I have stated previously, one should never allow emotions to cloud one’s reasoning because facts presented appear to be toounpalatable for one’s taste. Do you really think that what I have said is incorrect ?
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PTL
About 30 percent of the people who are the hardline voters for Trump are racists or have a keenly advanced type of xenophobia which has a colour bias!
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Are you sure it is not 30.1%.
What is your margin of error?
You have clearly done deep research on the Trump voters and reached your conclusion after rigorous statistical analysis and mathematical formulation!!!
PTL, you should be on a stage as a comedian!!
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@ Robert
You must have been in the prep school with people like Vic Fernandes. I do remember both Mr Earlam and Ms Mottley, the head’s secretary. Mr Earlam taught me chemistry. My fault that I did not understand the subject. Last I heard they were living in Belgium.
Take it from me, the BBC is not a friend of black people. They do just enough to get over the bar. As to their journalism, some one earlier this week talked about their credibility. Clearly he knows nothing about journalism. The BBC has a £5bn a year budget, much of it wasted. -
the Labour party has always been anti-EEC, EU,
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I am now totally confused!
Not really, it makes perfect sense.
If Labour wants out of the EU, then 32.6+43.6 = 76.2% of the electorate must want out too!!
Just supports my hypotheses that those who voted labour were not all for a referendum and just wanted out of the EU.
It is the young who want out.
The old fogeys who control the media create the impression it is the young who want to stay when it is they themselves.
Explains also why labour lost, it was being two faced and the electorate can pick that up in a flash.
Very similar to the US situation.
Actually it is kind of logical if you consider that the conservatives took the UK in to the EEC.
Labour would have naturally opposed it from day 1, kind of like the Irish but mean
The Irish can never be described as two faced or mean.
I am sure I have an Irish streak somewhere.
My uncle always said he was an oppositionist!!
Glad you confirmed my suspicions Hal.
I could never understand Labour’s position because it had two!!
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@Robert Lucas,
this is not the first time i have seen right wing crap post from u. and yes i think you are indeed talking nonsense.
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David
December 15, 2019 2:14 PMHope John is watching Fareed’s show now being telecast.
One of the panelist is of the view now that Boris has been given a 5 year term he will separate from Trump and move closer to the other world leaders.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Boris’s party had two positions as well but he was crystal clear, like Trump.
Whatever happened to the speaker in the elections?
No doubt who is the leader now …. on either side of the Atlantic.
In America the young lions of the Republican Party are roaring in unison and understand who is their senior, Boris will take some time to bring his lot to heel but he is half way there.
Who world leaders Boris is going to court?
I think world leaders will move closer to him, like Trump!!
Trump has held out the offer to May of a trade deal a while ago once the UK is out of the EU.
Mia?
Here is Boris with some world leaders!!
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@HA
How many generations does it take to get from working class to bourgeois? -
reference to Soros and the globalisation is a dog whistle for many right wing nuts. that is how what they do- locate their hate toward a person and get the punters to react. much like Pavlov’s dog
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@John
“ You have clearly done deep research on the Trump voters and reached your conclusion after rigorous statistical analysis”
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Actually, hundreds of expert statisticians have done the work; I simply read what they publish.You prefer your cocoon of racist ignorance. Ah well, you used to be smarter.
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@ Sargeant
Are you counting the days? There is no escape. You born in a class, you die in that class. A suit and smart car does not make you middle class, as the Americans call anyone with a regular job. I know self-hate.
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the truth is the earth must come together as one to solve world problems. we seem to think that coming together is a problem and we must remain separate in our own nation states to survive. this reaction to a more global (political and borderless) earth is the last throes of a dying idea that something called conservatism exists. if it did the world would never have advanced to where it is now. the Europeans would still be in Europe.
if we want to be conservative (whatever that means) lets reset the world to 1490
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peterlawrencethompson
December 15, 2019 4:41 PM@John
“ You have clearly done deep research on the Trump voters and reached your conclusion after rigorous statistical analysis”
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Actually, hundreds of expert statisticians have done the work; I simply read what they publish.
You prefer your cocoon of racist ignorance. Ah well, you used to be smarter.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You must be slipping in your old age.
You didn’t make the comment, PTL or Piece the Legend did.
Maybe PTL took cribbed the data from PLT!!
Maybe PTL and PLT are the same!!
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@Hal A
I asked about generations e.g. is Mia bourgeois? Is that born into a class and remain so a British condition a la Margaret Thatcher “the greengrocers daughter”?
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bourgeois
belonging to or typical of the middle class (= a social group between the rich and the poor) especially in supporting existing customs and values, or in having a strong interest in money and possessions:
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They Voted Democratic. Now They Support Trump.
Two-thirds of battleground state voters who chose Trump in 2016 but selected Democrats in the midterms say they will return to the president next year.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/26/upshot/democratic-trump-voters-2020.html
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@Sargeant
I answered the question. Simply, you do not escape from your class. The sons and daughters, and grand children and great grand children of working class people remain working class.
The descendants of slaves cannot claim to be part of the bourgeoisie. I am not sure what you mean by bourgeois. Do you mean middle class? I do not know anything about Mia Mottley.
By the way, sociologically, the middle class are identified by their occupation and education. -
Ben Stokes has just won the BBC Sports Personality of the Year. Another white guy winning a competition that involves the public voting, beating Lewis Hamilton, 6th time world champion and the greatest F1 driver in history.
This is the nonsense that black people face with the BBC and the voting public. Out of the six finalists, four were black, how terribly BBC. -
@Hal
that was as predictable as a lie from Boris
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@ Greene
You try to explain these things to Bajans in Barbados and they just cannot understand the nuances of British racism. Stokes???? Can you believe it. Next they will be saying black people do not votes. Nothing to do with the right person winning. Andy Murray got a knighthood for his tennis, Lewis Hamilton got an MBE.
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There is no escape. You born in a class, you die in that class. A suit and smart car does not make you middle class, as the Americans call anyone with a regular job. I know self-hate
An amazing statement.
Thus class status becomes reality based on perception unless u have a long memory or keep a copy of the the ‘Who is Who’ geneology handy… just to keep folks honest!
I too glad for that reasoning tho…cause I trace my ancestry and discover I come from chieftain lineage in the Yoruba clan so I am top class in this western stratification thing… Once a king, always a “blue” blood !😂
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The word “bourgeois” was introduced into the conversation and I ran with it perhaps PLT could explain his use of the word.
As for people unable to escape the background/class of their foreparents I have a differing opinion but I’ll leave the arguing to the folks who have a lot of time on their hands.BTW many people in Bim probably agree with you and that’s why so many qualified people refuse to enter political life in Bim? There is bound to be someone who will refer to their antecedents
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Why should any sane person want to escape their background, unless they are Bajans brought in in tough times?
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All who read what Peter wrote understood the context in which he used the word. Grow up for crissakes.
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@ Hal December 15, 2019 4:15 PM
Wasn’t your fault. There was the lab. attendant ( I think Hamblin was his name)who would give Earlam lots of trouble, at times slapping him across the head. I was the youngest in the class, the bigger fellows were not interested in chemistry, I went along with them and nearly got thrown out of school Earlam was good in that he was also a mathematics person. When I reached sixth form doing chemistry, it was then that I realized how good a teacher he was, I was in Prep 2. with Tony Howard, Robin Gale ( fast bowler who was real fast but couldn’t move the ball at all) and Paul Best the banker who died some time ago. Of course there was Miss Sealy and Daisy.. Mr. Brathwaite from St. Lucy who would give one a good slap around the head and Mr. Seale the English teacher who commanded respect in the class ( a very short fellow who would use the register to slap burly six-footer across the head to maintain discipline) very good at English,. The fellows were afraid when called upon to explain the clauses and so on -from Seale’s reaction as well as the jokes the other fellows made after class at one’s expense.
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@ Greene December 15, 2019 4:27 PM
To each his own. I have no problem with your views but I would suggest you try not to get emotional.
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@Greene, I endorse your 5:31 for the simple reason that what Stokes did this year in the Brit’s national sport (twice) was off the charts and despite the continued similarly off the charts excellence of Hamilton the result should have been expected.
Should Hamilton win another national sports personality award? Of course… he is a multiple F1 champion after all.
And likely he is denied that repeated acclaim that folks like the aforementioned Murray got because of his race…but the race argument THIS year is less relevant seems to me.
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@ Greene December 15, 2019 4:40 PM
“reference to Soros and the globalisation is a dog whistle for many right wing nuts. that is how what they do- locate their hate toward a person and get the punters to react. much like Pavlov’s dog”
You seem to have gotten quite hot under the collar. with all the talk about condition reflex.. careful you might burst a blood vessel.
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RE Ben Stokes has just won the BBC Sports Personality of the Year.
WUH YUH EXPECT? HE DESERVED IT IN MY OPINION AND THAT OF THE BBCHE WON THEM THE CRICKET WORLD CUP
THEN ALMOST SINGLE HANDEDLY WON THEM A TEST MATCH THAT THEY WERE ON THE BRINK OF LOSSINGI DONT LIKE HIM PARTICULARLY—BUT THESE WERE TWO STELLAR PERFORMANCES
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@ Robert
I remember Robin, he was also a good sprinter. Earlam came from Leeds and had a very broad Yorkshire accent. I liked Broodhagen for boxing, couldn’t stand art or sculpture. Still can’t. I am a philistine.
Loved Miss Sealy’s pones. It was a black day when they got rid of the two prep classes, almost as bad as making Stanton Gittens head..
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