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Caleb Orozco
Caleb Orozco

โ€œIf public opinion were to be decisive, there would be no need for constitutional adjudicationโ€ฆโ€ per Chaskalson P -South African Constitutional Court [1995}

It should not be thought that the recent and eventually successful claim of Mr Caleb Orozco in the Belize High Court that I commented on last week went unchallenged by anyone, even though we have learnt subsequently that the state itself will not be appealing the decision and, I suppose, will be amending the law as recommended by Benjamin CJ in his judgment to the effect that โ€œThis section shall not apply to consensual sexual acts between adults in privateโ€.

Readers will be aware that the debate over removal or retention of the โ€œbuggery lawsโ€ as they have come to be known, has seen conflicting stances taken by those who consider the act, especially between two males, to be a nearly unpardonable sin by reference to sundry Biblical injunctions and by those who view the expression of love between any two adults in private to be no business of the state and even less so that of the criminal law. Indeed, since the law as drafted also criminalizes acts of buggery even between consenting spouses in the privacy of their marital bed, the legislative overreach should be clear to the most rabid advocate for the retention of the legislation.

It should be no cause for surprise then that three of the interested parties opposed to Mr Orozcoโ€™s claim were the Roman Catholic Church in Belize, the Belize Church of England Corporate Body and the Belize Evangelical Association.

Whatever might have been the authority attached to the views of these bodies had the matter been adjudicated in the Biblical realm, his Lordship was careful to emphasize that โ€œthe issue before the Court must be determined by reference to the fundamental rights provisions of the Constitution and not b[y] recourse to public viewsโ€. In this regard, he adopted the reasoning of Lord Bingham in Reyes v The Queen in 2002 where he had asserted, โ€œIn carrying out its task of constitutional interpretation the court is not concerned to evaluate and give effect to public opinionโ€ฆโ€

And while, of course, the respect and influence of the churches in Belize were not to be ignored, it bore reminder that Belize was a secular state with a written Constitution that provided for the protection of the fundamental rights and freedoms.

Benjamin CJ dealt also with the preambled provision, similarly to be found in the Barbados Constitution, that our nation is โ€œfounded upon principles that acknowledge the supremacy of Godโ€ฆโ€ He considered it trite that although Belize was a predominantly Christian nation, the reference to God and the Creator went beyond Christianity, given the protection accorded to the individual freedom of conscience that was inclusive of freedom of thought and religion. In his view, the reference to God and the Creator did not serve to import religious principles into the interpretation of the Constitution. It should be noted, as an aside, that the local Constitution makes no express reference to the Creator as does the Belize provision that stipulates โ€œthe equal and inalienable rights which all members of the human family are endowed by their Creatorโ€ฆโ€ He concluded that the reference to the Supremacy of God did not import any specific religious perspective but merely acknowledged the historical origin of the fundamental rights in natural law.

A similar issue had been in previous dispute in Canada where the Charter of Rights and Freedoms makes an identical reference. There, in 1991, Muldoon J affirmed that Canada remained a secular state notwithstanding the reference . On his interpretation, โ€œIt does not make Canada a theocracy โ€ฆit prevents the Canadian state from becoming officially atheisticโ€ฆโ€

The chief resistance by the churches to the claim of unconstitutionality of the provision was based on the express limitation of the right on the basis of public morality. In this context, the Anglican Bishop purported that the provision, even though infrequently enforced, was โ€œintegral to the protection of the common good and public morality to the extent that its repeal would be inimical to the preservation of society as ordained by the Creatorโ€. While this argument would carry some force were the law to be rigorously enforced, the seemingly plain disinterest of the state where the act is consensually effected in private does not support a claim that the state has any interest here whatsoever in preserving society according to the ordinance of the Creator, the letter of the law or otherwise. His Lordship the Anglican Bishop went further, asserting that the practice of homosexual acts is inconsistent with the witness of sacred scripture and against the natural order of creation.

The President of the Association of Evangelical Churches insisted that the section existed for sundry reasons of safety public order, public morality and public health. As his brother, the Lord Bishop was before him, he is unwittingly of the belief that the mere passage of a law ensures compliance with these dictates. As most contemporary compliance metrics are structured however, the true test of the function of a law is its effectiveness, a phenomenon that fails to pass muster in light of the notorious absence of any enforcement of the provision at all.

The Roman Catholic Bishop in his submission saw the principal function of the law as preserving a moral climate for members of the society to prosper and avoid vice and he suggested further in his affidavit that โ€œan alien world view was being foisted on the people of Belize.โ€

Benjamin CJ did not accept these views although he conceded that they were โ€œrepresentative of those of the majority of the Christian community and perhaps of the population of Belize.โ€œ However, he noted that the Court could not act on act upon the prevailing majority view or what is popularly accepted as moral. For him, there must be demonstrated, but it had not been done, that some harm would be caused should the proscribed conduct in the provision be rendered unregulated.

Again, the ineffectiveness of the legislation through an absence of enforcement forecloses any such likelihood, for if there is no visible harm in the existing context, the removal of the provision could scarcely be expected negatively to alter circumstances.

As I hinted last week, the local position, for a number of reasons, is not in pari materia with the Belize situation. Any repeal of section 9 of the Sexual Offences Act must therefore be effected by a parliamentary act (!)and it would take quite a courageous administration to effect such a reform.


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162 responses to “The Jefferson Cumberbatch Column – Enforcing the Rule of Law (ii)”


  1. As I hinted last week, the local position, for a number of reasons, is not in pari materia with the Belize situation. Any repeal of section 9 of the Sexual Offences Act must therefore be effected by a parliamentary act (!)and it would take quite a courageous administration to effect such a reform.

    It shows the code of hypocrisy we live by.

    The political directorate and many in society have no problem with braying that what adults do in the privacy of the bedroom is fine, BUT, suggest to amend the law to align with this thinking we have to accept it is a issue to do with our political parties maintaining popularity. So what are we saying?

  2. Violet C Beckles Avatar
    Violet C Beckles

    “buggery” is legal in Barbados , The lawyers and Ministers does it to the People all the time, They have never stopped, This is why Barbados smell so bad in the minds of the People, They all need to be removed,

    Hyatt is another case of BUGGERY , FOUR SEASON, SAM LORDS ,,, as i call it KILLHILL POWER PLANT , NIS, NHC, UDC and Mark Cummins all over your face.


  3. David,
    Jeff’s column is most interesting. Pierre Elliott Trudeau, late Prime Minister of Canada had it right when he said…”the State has no business in the bedrooms of the Nation.”


  4. @Alvin

    We can debate that point all we want. If we believe this to be the case then fix the hypocritical law.

    What is the purpose of a law?


  5. The Chief Justice of Belize is bringing the legal system into ( further) disrepute.
    The system is an expensive relic of colonialism, which is now imposing the increasingly pagan and perverted thinking of European and North American jurists on an unwitting population of sincere Christians.
    The notion that there is no visible harm to society from decriminalizing sodomy is as ridiculous as the costumes these misguided judges proudly wear at official ceremonies. There are many more lethal diseases transmitted by anal sex than by oral or vaginal intercourse. Not only that. A society that normalizes homosexuality reduces its ability to reproduce itself, even as it increases the threats to public health and the cost of managing disease. It also damages its prospects for economic growth, which are tied to natural increases in population. The claim that “privacy rights” trump the compelling interest of the state in containing disease, promoting economic growth and preserving universal values based on millions of years of human evolution should be rejected as insane. The Chief Justice should be impeached and sent off to the UK or Canada, where he belongs.


  6. @chad99999

    I shouldn’t have to point out to you that our African ancestors were pagans… and it is the Christian religion that was imposed upon them as “an expensive relic of colonialism.”


  7. The Chase Files

    Good Morning ๏ฟฝ#๏ฟฝrealdreamchasers๏ฟฝ. Here is your daily newscap. Remember you can read full articles via Barbados Today Online (BT) or The Sunday Sun Nation Newspaper (SS).

    PAY CASH FOR BABIES – BARBADOS MAY HAVE to consider giving a monetary incentive to married couples to have more children. This was among some of the suggestions thrown out by the chairman of the National Assistance Board, Senator David Durant, as he responded to the population crisis Barbados could be facing within a decade, when its elderly is predicted to outnumber children.With the birth rate standing at 1.84 births per woman and people living above the average life expectancy of 74.3 years, Durant said the imbalance could affect every aspect of social life.โ€œWe have to put things in place โ€“ open our borders and bring in younger people into the island,โ€ he said. (SS)

    MOTHERโ€™S PLEA – THE WOMAN who gave birth to twins with microcephaly two weeks ago has not been able to take them home because of her living conditions.The 32-year-old mother of three other children told the SUNDAY SUN that her identical twin daughters had been given the all-clear to leave the Queen Elizabeth Hospital, but they remain in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit while she searches for proper accommodation for them.She was speaking at her City residence โ€“ a room located in a three-bedroom house; the other two rooms occupied by two other people.The mother, who requested anonymity, said environmental health officers who inspected her accommodation after she gave birth, had expressed concern about the surroundings. (SS)

    ECONOMIST BACKS BUDGET – THE RIGHT MEDICINE.Thatโ€™s the verdict of economist Professor Michael Howard who described the 2016 Budget as โ€œa good budget in the context of a small consumption driven economy undergoing fiscal stressโ€.Howard, a retired senior lecturer at the Cave Hill campus, University of the West Indies (UWI) says the Budget delivered by Minister of Finance Chris Sinckler is an attempt at the very difficult task โ€œof stabilising the foreign reserves and public spending, raising revenue, preserving access to social services and growing the economy at the same time.โ€He said the imposition of a National Responsibility Levy is the most important fiscal measure to deal with the continuing challenging fiscal deficit and the high cost of the public health sector. (SS)

    INSUFFICIENT FUNDS – Controversial waste hauler Anderson Fat Child Cherry said this afternoon that the $5 million allocated by Government for a national clean up campaign was short of what was needed for the campaign to be effective.In presenting the 2016 Financial Statement and Budgetary Proposals on Tuesday, Minister of Finance Chris Sinckler announced that Government would welcome all hands on deck, including Cherry, who had earlier been rebuffed by Minister of the Environment and Drainage Dr Denis Lowe.Lowe had rejected Cherryโ€™s offer of help in the collection of garbage, suggesting that unless he got rid of his illegal dump site at Lears Quarry, St Michael, the leading waste hauler would not even pick up a dead dog for his ministry.This afternoon, Cherry, said he felt humbled that Sinckler had invited him to participate in the clean up drive, said more than $5 million would be needed if the campaign were to be feasible. (BT)

    CREDIT UNIONS HIT BANKS – THERE IS MORE backlash for commercial banks which have called for the asset tax imposed on them to be spread to all operators in the financial sector. Vice-president of the Caribbean Confederation of Credit Unions (CCCU) Hally Haynes, told the SUNDAY SUN yesterday that when credit unions were asked to pay the asset tax for a specific period under sunset legislation, they protested but the seven affected credit unions paid millions of dollars over to Government without passing on any of the cost to its members.โ€œIt must be noted that the seven credit unions that were required to pay tax on their assets not withstanding our lobbying efforts by the Barbados Co-operative & Credit Union League Limited to have the tax imposition removed, paid their monies to the Government and did not pass on one cent of these taxes to their members. I am not sure we can say that in respect of the banks given the number of fees and the increases in fees to banksโ€™ customers. (SS)

    MOVE TO AVERT STRIKE – DEPUTY CHAIRMAN of United Commercial Autoworks Limited (UCAL) Hilford Murrell stepped in yesterday to avert strike action by UCAL workers over the dismissal of one of their colleagues on Friday. Murrell, who held a meeting with John Jones, the Barbados Workersโ€™ Union (BWU) workersโ€™ representative and the fired shift foreman Richard Newton, said that he had intervened to head off a stoppage at the Transport Boardโ€™s mechanics service provider.โ€œI saw in the paper the possibility of a strike taking place and I tried to call Jones together to avert a strike because at this period of time the buses will be required for the schoolchildren,โ€ Murrell said yesterday. (SS)

    BACK TO SCHOOL DRIVE – With the start of the new academic year just a few weeks away, families who are unable to provide their childrenโ€™s school supplies are getting some help from the Progressive Optimist Club of Barbados.The charitable organisation hosted a Back-To-School Uniforms and Supplies Drive earlier today, in aid of disadvantaged students.โ€œWe have six or seven rural families โ€ฆ that we help with school supplies and we realised that there was a bigger need from parents and guardians who have to get their children ready for school,โ€ Committee member Nicole Massiah explained. She added that used uniforms which are still in good condition can be reused in the new school year.โ€œWe thought if we could get those uniforms in and give back to others that this was a great way to help others in the communityโ€. She also stated that in addition to the families already receiving assistance from the club, any parent or family who is in need this school term could opt to receive help from the drive. (BT)

    BIRTHDAY CELEBRATIONS – Twin boys Jaden and Jaylen whose mother Melissa Eastmond died in her sleep last month celebrated their birthday with a bang today. They were treated to a birthday party at the King George V Memorial Park this afternoon by charity organisations the Love Day Projects, and Making It against the Odds Foundation. They were joined by family members including their nine-month-old sister Jelissa, and friends from their Work Hall neighbourhood. It was a lovely day for an outdoor party, the kind that relatives said their late mother always wanted to give them. There were jumping tents, live entertainment, and even a clown who created fancy designs with balloons and played musical chairs with the boys. The organisers said they were grateful to the many individuals and companies which contributed to the event. Eastmondโ€™s mother Cora said she could not find the words to express how it felt to see her grandchildren smiling and playing.

    This is unbelievable. I could not do this for the children and I know Melissa would be happy to see this. Thank you to everybody who did this for the boys, we really appreciate it," she said. (BT)

    FOGGING CONTINUES – THE VECTOR CONTROL Unit of the Ministry of Health continues its fogging programme next week aimed at controlling the Aedes Aegypti mosquito population. On Monday, August 22, the team will be in St Andrew, where areas to be fogged include White Hill, Harewood Road, Mount Hillaby, Church Gap with Avenues, Mose Bottom, Greggs Farm, Turners Hall and the environs.On that same date, Sion Hill, Sion Hill Plantation, Sion Hill Terrace, Westmoreland, Lancaster and surrounding areas in St James will also be sprayed.On Tuesday, August 23, areas in Christ Church to be fogged are Enterprise Coast Road, Atlantic Shores, Rollins Road, Bournes Land, Goodland Gardens, Silver Sands Housing Area and neighbouring districts. On Wednesday, August 24, the exercise will continue in St Michael in Valery, Brittons Cross Road, Beckles Road, Villa Road, Laynes Road, Scotts Gap, Highgate Gardens, Collymore Rock, Burkes Land, Eversley Road, Brittons New Road, Reece Land, Flagstaff and the environs. Areas in St Andrew and St Joseph to be targeted on Thursday, August 25 are Coggins Hill, Chalky Mount, Cambridge and surrounding areas. And, also on that date, a team will return to St Michael to fog My Lordโ€™s Hill, Blackmans Road, Jones Road, Licorish Village with Avenues, Odessa McClean Avenue and neighbouring districts. Fogging will be carried out from 4:30 to 7:30 p.m. daily, and householders are reminded to open their windows and doors to allow the spray to enter. Persons with respiratory problems are advised to protect themselves, and children should not play in the fog. (BGIS)

    TEEN MISSING – Police are seeking the publicโ€™s assistance in locating missing 16-year-old Tawania Aziza Destiny Elcock of Arch Hall, St Thomas.She left home at about 3:00 p.m. on Friday August 12 to visit her aunt in Grazettes, St Michael and has not been seen or heard from since.Police say Tawania is about five feet two inches tall, dark, with a small head, oval face and brown eyes. Her black hair was styled in a bun. She has four piercings on her right ear, while the left is pierced twice.Tawania has an erect appearance, is soft spoken and has a pleasant manner. She is also in the habit of biting her nails.She was last seen wearing a pink T-shirt dress, a pair of black sandals and a black โ€˜chokerโ€™ necklace.She is known to frequent the Parish Land, Christ Church and Haynesville, St James areas.Anyone with information relating to the whereabouts of Tawania Elcock is asked to contact the District D police station at 419-1726 or 419-1729; the emergency number 211 or the nearest police station. (BT)

    JAMAICA WINS SILVER IN THE 4X400 RELAYS – Jamaicaโ€™s menโ€™s and womenโ€™s 4x400m relay teams both took silver in tonightโ€™s final, to finish behind the United States.In the womenโ€™s race, Jamaica ran in 3:20.4 behind the United States who won in 3:19:.6. Great Britain took bronze in 3:25.88.Jamaicaโ€™s men, meanwhile, clocked 2:58.16 to place second behind the United States who won gold in 2:57.30. The Bahamas took the bronze medal, running in 2:58.49. (BT)

    BROWNZE FOR TRINIDAD – Defending Olympic champion, Keshorn Walcott of Trinidad and Tobago, took bronze in the menโ€™s javelin throw in Rio tonight.Walcott measured 85.38m, finishing behind Germanyโ€™s Thomas Rohler who won gold with 90.30m, and Kenyaโ€™s Julius Yego who took silver with 88.24m. (BT)

    IOC TO PROBE US SWIMMERS STORY – The International Olympic Committee has set up a disciplinary commission to investigate the incident involving Ryan Lochte and three of his US swimming teammates at a Rio de Janeiro gas station.IOC spokesman Mark Adams tells the Associated Press the panel was formed Friday to look into the behaviour of Lochte, Gunnar Bentz, Jack Conger and Jimmy Feigen.Adams had no other immediate details.IOC disciplinary commissions have the power to issue sanctions.Lochte, a 12-time Olympic medalist, apologized Friday for his behavior surrounding the early-morning incident. He reiterated his view that a stranger pointed a gun at him and demanded money in order to let him leave the station.Lochte had called it a gunpoint robbery; Brazilian police said he and the three other swimmers vandalized a bathroom while intoxicated and were confronted by armed security guards. (BT)

    Thatโ€™s all for today folks Have a great day. Shalom โ€ช#โ€Žthechasefilesโ€ฌ

  8. Violet C Beckles Avatar
    Violet C Beckles

    We can debate that point all we want. If we believe this to be the case then fix the hypocritical law.

    What is the purpose of a law?@2

    The purpose of the law is to Act like you are doing something , to leave your name behind when you are dead to say the laws are on the books , but not in the books, To Act as if you were doing work for the people to have you voice being heard on tv and radio, a waste of time,


  9. @Peter Thompson

    You have no point. (1) African pagans universally reject homosexuality. (2) Christianity spread to parts of Africa before it spread to Europe. Black Ethiopians and Sudanese were among the earliest Christians. Christian faith might have been adopted by west Africans even if European colonialism never existed.

  10. Anonymice - The Gazer Avatar
    Anonymice – The Gazer

    @Chad9
    “A society that normalizes homosexuality reduces its ability to reproduce itself, even as it increases the threats to public health and the cost of managing disease. It also damages its prospects for economic growth, which are tied to natural increases in population. ”

    Sounds good, but nonsense. Having or not having a law will not impact on how homosexual men interact with women. With or without the law, they are homosexuals. Little or no impact on birth rates or population growth.

    I don’t know what ‘normalizes’ mean. Perhaps you mean “decriminalizes’

  11. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    Ya cannit change people’s sexual orientation, despite the laws against buggery the population will continue to shrink and shrink, too many social factors are involved and at play.

  12. Anonymice - The Gazer Avatar
    Anonymice – The Gazer

    @Chad9
    “There are many more lethal diseases transmitted by anal sex than by oral or vaginal intercourse.”

    I will not dispute this fact, but spreading this kind of information is folly.
    Heterosexual sex is the leading cause of HIV in the Caribbean. Time for you guys to get off your high-horse, take off your blinkers and your ‘holier than thou robes’ and admit the islands are in a tough situation. Whatever is your preference, you must exercise cuation.
    Read this…
    http://www.medwiser.org/hiv-aids/around-the-world/aids-in-the-caribbean/


  13. Anon

    I mean normalize. Decriminalization of homosexuality permits the LGBT community and their many allies ( the UN, the nonprofit aid agencies, the EU, the US and Canadian embassies) to actively promote homosexuality in media information and entertainment programs and in sex education materials used in high schools. Then they will get the courts to silence any public expression of opposition to homosexuality as “hate speech”. All this has already happened in Canada and in parts of western Europe and the US.


  14. The notion that the law has no effect on private behavior is rubbish.
    The existing law sustains the stigma of homosexuality. It keeps many people from acting on occasional homosexual impulses
    . There are many documented cases of married men and married women choosing to become practising homosexuals only after laws against sodomy were repealed. These are people who follow the rules.


  15. @chad99999

    It was you who blamed “increasingly pagan… thinking” for buggery, I didn’t imply that African pagans were homosexual. I was just pointing out that it was your perception of history that was distorted.

    As you seem to include yourself in what you call an “unwitting population of sincere Christians,” it seems appropriate to point out that the “sincere Christian” priests of the Catholic Church as well as church leaders from several other “sincere Christian” denominations are proven to have been buggering little boys for many generations.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/10407559
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/nov/04/usa.religion
    http://www.advocate.com/politics/politicians/2015/05/29/16-antigay-leaders-exposed-gay-or-bi

    This deeply rooted hypocrisy makes it impossible for me to take seriously any claim to moral authority by the “sincere Christian” community.

  16. Anonymice - The Gazer Avatar
    Anonymice – The Gazer

    Why did you have to point to the elephant hiding in the room…

  17. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @chad45, you are a very funny fella. Uproariously so at times actually. And this is a good one: “… It keeps many people from acting on occasional homosexual impulses.”

    So the impulses are there and one presumes that in private away from the peeping eyes of the law, these many folks do act-out these impulses. Yet, you assert that the law – rarely enforced – does have a significant restrictive effect on private behaviour.

    You are also convinced that repealing this generally non-enforced law would expose all these “occasional homosexual impulses” to rampant sexual expression by Bajan men.

    Or were you telling us something about your ‘occasional impulses’ ….that is, to be provocative for the sake of being provocative.

    If you and were friends I would definitely ask you about the ‘occasional homosexual impulses’ you are trending towards with that rather turgid remark, but blogger to blogger you make take that as a personal attack, so let’s not go there!

  18. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    Chad one less than 100, 000,

    The notion that there is no visible harm to society from decriminalizing sodomy is as ridiculous as the costumes these misguided judges proudly wear at official ceremonies.

    In what way is sodomy treated as criminal in Barbados today? Do you think that the existence of the law deters those who are now inclined to indulge consensually in private? Or do you think that the facade of a law is enough?


  19. As usual, there is no shortage of clowns who will accuse anyone standing up to the homosexual brigades of being a closet homo or a repressed homo.
    I am not a homo, I have never had any homo impulses and I resent the stupidity of ad hominem attacks. There are serious quality of life issues at stake here, because Barbados has a large foreign-born population and is vulnerable to blackmail by Western societies promoting the homosexual agenda. Like drugs and promiscuity, this is the path to sleaze and disease.


  20. Jeff,
    I’ve told you. The law has many deterrent effects. It blocks teachers, feminists, secularists, and LGBT activists from promoting homosexuality as a fashionable or elite lifestyle. It forces many people at the margins to control their darker impulses.
    Many of you analyse our society without an awareness of how quickly things can change. Do not engage in static analysis.

  21. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    “This deeply rooted hypocrisy makes it impossible for me to take seriously any claim to moral authority by the โ€œsincere Christianโ€ community.”

    The biggest hypocrites and practitioners of closet homosexuality is the Christian communty, the holier than thou attitudes covers their gay spirit…funny thing is, the buggery laws are never in the closet to see who is doing what with and to whom…until they get exposed.


  22. @chad99999

    Let’s take a look at your assertion that decriminalizing sodomy “increases the threats to public health and the cost of managing disease.” If this were true we would find some positive correlation between the existence of sodomy prohibition and the incidence of HIV/Aids. However, when we examine the data it is very clear that no such correlation exists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_HIV/AIDS_adult_prevalence_rate).

    For example take a look at Swaziland… sodomy punishable by death since 1907, but the highest HIV/Aids incidence in the world. Swaziland is not a statistical anomaly. Any honest and sober analysis of the real world statistical data reveals that there is no positive correlation between legislated sodomy prohibition and improving public health. You are simply wrong.


  23. that should of course read “positive correlation between the existence of sodomy prohibition and LOWERING the incidence of HIV/Aids.”


  24. @DPD
    โ€œIt keeps many people from acting on occasional homosexual impulses.โ€
    +++++++++
    That had me scratching my head too, is it like the occasional impulse to have another scoop of ice cream, the piece of coconut bread or the helping of pudding nโ€™ souse?

    Chad 9โ€™s must have paid attention to Woody Allen who was quoted โ€œBisexuality immediately doubles your chances for a date on Saturday night.โ€


  25. @Peter

    Surely you recognize that chad99999 is using the popular moral argument of the secular world and you statistics?

    How will your positions reconcile?


  26. @ chad99999. โ€œA society that normalizes homosexuality reduces its ability to reproduce itselfโ€ฆ..โ€

    With the population explosion, is this a bad thing? Hello???!!! Have you considered that this may have been the creatorโ€™s plan all along or have you personally cross-examined him on his views? Also, has it penetrated (pardon the pun) your consciousness that anal sex has from time immemorial been used to avoid pregnancy between heterosexual couples for a variety of reasons like the health of the woman damaged by too many pregnancies, being able to feed and support the children, etc? Finally, and it is your business how?

    โ€œโ€ฆ..it also damages its prospects for economic growth, which are tied to natural increases in population.โ€

    Yes, well tell that to the Chinese who have limited their population solely in the interests of their economy and it has, seemingly, been successful. Also, are you suggesting that we all breed as much as we can and then find ourselves individually living lives of extreme poverty and hard work, simply so we can contribute to your fantasy โ€œeconomic growthโ€ from which we derive no benefit whatever?

    โ€œThe Chief Justice should be impeached and sent off to the UK or Canada, where he belongs.โ€

    Well, I would rephrase โ€œwhere he belongsโ€ to read, โ€œto which we go, cap in hand, for financial aid and support for our population explosion so that some idiot can claim that this population explosion has led to โ€œeconomic growthโ€โ€.

    I am particularly disturbed at the thought that you seem, in effect, to propose using CCTV in every bedroom, on every beach and on every cart track in order to protect โ€œpublic moralityโ€. I call this voyeurism or being a peeping tom. And I am not one of the clowns accusing you of being a closet homo. I am accusing you of being a closet peeping tom seeking to find a way of facilitating your hobby/perversion.

    For what it is worth, I think the CJ is right. And sooner rather than later, unless we repeal our buggery laws, the governments of those countries that support us financially are going to come under enormous pressure in their own countries whose taxpayers enable our support to cut their aid to us, since our human rights standards will not accord with theirs โ€“ and I am not making a distinction between homo and heterosexual either, as both do it and it is a human right in those countries. Add into this equation the fact that gay marriage is legal in the countries that support us and think what the backlash will be should we allow you to interfere with the conjugal rights of a foreign married couple, regardless of their sexual persuasion.

    @ Peter Lawrence Thompson August 21, 2016 at 11:32 AM. Well done. Excellent.

    @David. I agree. If a law has no relevance, is outdated and redundant, get rid of it.

  27. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    The law has many deterrent effects. It blocks teachers, feminists, secularists, and LGBT activists from promoting homosexuality as a fashionable or elite lifestyle. It forces many people at the margins to control their darker impulses.

    Why should “people at the margins” (your words) control their “darker” (sic) impulses when there is seemingly no risk at all of them being arrested, charges and prosecuted?


  28. @Amused

    Have you considered that this government through its agents read AG Brathwaite, ministers Stephen Lashley and Denis Lowe have stated categorically that Barbados will not be moving from its ‘traditional’ position on homosexuality and related?


  29. @David

    I do not really expect my views to reconcile with chad99999’s; it’s just that I have a peculiar reverence for truth supported by facts. So even though chad99999 does not appear to share my high regard for factual information, I’m impelled to test his assertions against facts because I might yet learn something from him.

  30. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @ chad45, yes it was intentional “stupidity” and thus I passed it off as the joke it was intended to be. I was being as provocative to you as you were to the blog. You pulled from your psychological top-hat the broadly ‘academic journal’ view that all men have homosexual tendencies (impulses, you said). Yet you get all offended when in jest I push it back to you. You must be off your rocker bro.

    So let me pull from my psychological top-hat. Any person with your strong misogyny and adverse hateful views towards homosexuality would surely be described as repressing something. OK! That is not an ad hominem attack. It’s just a fact.

    If you can’t respond rationally to commentary – especially when based on the type of base analysis you cite – why are you even posting, sir.

    Again I repeat I was jousting with you, NOT attacking you. I could care less if you have an extra Y chromosome or four ears or whatever. Let’s get real.

    Your retort was ‘shocking’ to say the least. Your substantive point is also shocking quite frankly, so at least you are consistent.

    We can rightly abhor a homosexual lifestyle but to suggest that a change of law would shift the entire social dynamic to the depravity of a “homosexual agenda” and lead to widespread “sleaze and disease” is ridiculous.


  31. @Amused wrote “unless we repeal our buggery laws, the governments of those countries that support us financially are going to come under enormous pressure in their own countries whose taxpayers enable our support to cut their aid to us, since our human rights standards will not accord with theirs”

    You are completely correct on this point. The US, Canada & the EU have already sent blunt diplomatic signals that this is in the near future. In June the United States Embassy in Jamaica hoisted the rainbow flag after the massacre that occurred at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida. Note that the embassy did not raise school or military flags in the wake of similar shootings at Sandy Hook and Fort Hood; this was a pointed signal to the Jamaican government that bilateral relations were being damaged by Jamaica’s human rights standards.

    Of course it is not just bilateral aid that is threatened, our tourism industry is very vulnerable to the divergence in human rights legislation between Barbados & the originating countries of our tourists.


  32. @ Jeff

    Let us be honest and say that all these legal actions are being run , directly and indirectly, from Washington.

    That your system of laws is just another colonial construction creepingly gaining acceptance since 332 BC.

    We would have to be fools to believe that in a world which cannot even deal with more intractable social problems that this issue should be given preeminence.

    Issues such as racism, classism, ethnicity, poverty, official malfeasance, the rise of neo-fascism and more.

    OK

    So let us decriminalize laying with animals – dogs etc.

    Indeed, there are groupings who fervently support the idea that people should be allowed to be naked in public places. Do you have a legal thinking on these matters?

  33. Caswell Franklyn Avatar
    Caswell Franklyn

    Amused

    I find myself agreeing with you and that troubles me. I believe that as long as a person is not harming another or the state, he/she should not be subject to any criminal penalty in this situation. If two adult persons engage in a sexual act in the privacy of their homes, it is not the business of anybody else, no matter how much you abhor the act.

    The problem in Barbados is that we still cling tenaciously to the myth that Barbados is a Christian society. And because there appear to be some biblical prohibition against a man laying with another man, politicians who want to rely on the so called Christian vote do not want to risk offending these “Christians”, so the law stays, even if there is no intention to enforce it.

    Personally, the homosexual act does not appeal to me because I find mining faeces to be repulsive and because there might be a majority of that view, it does not mean that that we should impose our views on the alleged minority. “Alleged” because after reading Naked Departure, I am not so sure who is in the minority these days.

    There are also biblical prohibitions against stealing but that only applies to small time crooks. The big ones even serve in parliament at times.

  34. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    “I am particularly disturbed at the thought that you seem, in effect, to propose using CCTV in every bedroom, on every beach and on every cart track in order to protect โ€œpublic moralityโ€. I call this voyeurism or being a peeping tom. And I am not one of the clowns accusing you of being a closet homo. I am accusing you of being a closet peeping tom seeking to find a way of facilitating your hobby/perversion.

    For what it is worth, I think the CJ is right. And sooner rather than later, unless we repeal our buggery laws, the governments of those countries that support us financially are going to come under enormous pressure in their own countries whose taxpayers enable our support to cut their aid to us, since our human rights standards will not accord with theirs โ€“ and I am not making a distinction between homo and heterosexual either, as both do it and it is a human right in those countries. Add into this equation the fact that gay marriage is legal in the countries that support us and think what the backlash will be should we allow you to interfere with the conjugal rights of a foreign married couple, regardless of their sexual persuasion.”

    Excellent Amused…no one has the right to practice their voyeuristic tendencies into the lives and bedroom of anyone, particularly the government….practicing risky sex and displaying risky tendencies cause disease and death, whether homosexual or not. ..full stop.

    I remember when they were trying to shove the HPV vaccine down everyone’s throat…what they neglected to tell everyone is if you do not practice risky sexual behavior you do not get the virus, that most people who get infected with the HPV virus, the disease clears up on it’s own…but if ya sexual behavior is not riskyyou cannot get infected….

    …if ya drop ya drawers for people whose sexual backgrounds you do not know, all bets are off…the same applies if ya straight or gay or to any one of the old and new age diseases out there…and they got some vicious new sexual diseases which have no treatment….no cure.

    You as the individual, is responsible for practicing safe sex.

  35. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    Caswell.

    Theoretically, I have nothing against nudity in public places, as occurs on certain beaches in the region, provided that the place is knowingly set aside for that purpose.

    Personally, I do not support the concept of human sexual congress with animal but, at the same time, I do not consider it identical to interhuman contact. The absence of the reality of consent in that context is also troubling…


  36. @ Caswell

    You are missing the central point

    All that you said was already present

    What we have here is a determination to normalize certain behaviors

    Nobody should have the ability to change nature on an alter of political expediency.


  37. Jeff

    We spoke about nudity as a general rule, not confined to selected places.

    We have that already.

    We were talking about organizations which promote this to be a generalization.

    If the powers that be wanted this as an ‘acceptable norm’ your system of laws would find the appropriate justifications.

    The law is indeed an ass!


  38. @chad99999 wrote that “African pagans universally reject homosexuality.”

    Actually, this does not appear to be true either. Sylvia Tamale, professor of law at Makerere University in Uganda writes that “the Ndebele and Shona in Zimbabwe, the Azande in Sudan and Congo, the Nupe in Nigeria and the Tutsi in Rwanda and Burundi all engaged in same-sex acts for spiritual rearmament โ€” i.e., as a source of fresh power for their territories. It was also used for ritual purposes.”
    http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/4/homosexuality-africamuseveniugandanigeriaethiopia.html

  39. Anonymice - The Gazer Avatar
    Anonymice – The Gazer

    (1) so let us decriminalize laying with animals โ€“ dogs etc.
    ***It is amazing how we move from homosexuality to beastiality. I have seen what you post and know that this is not your best effort.

    Next up will be child molestation?

    (2) Indeed, there are groupings who fervently support the idea that people should be allowed to be naked in public places.
    The human body is beautiful. I am not in any group, but I love the idea.


  40. @Pachamama

    What you are alleging to be “natural” is actually a social and cultural construction. It was also alleged to be “natural” for Black people to be slaves.


  41. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi3t9i8-9LOAhWoIsAKHSBDDoAQFghHMAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.starrfmonline.com%2F1.5326357&usg=AFQjCNF74HcKNPJmVfJRNiQTgZ7UJiUHmw&sig2=DZyM5QFk2haSTT-_Itljcg

    Homosexuality not un-African; steeped in our ancient culture – Africa’s Gays

    Homosexuality not un-African; steeped in our ancient culture – Africa’s Gays
    Jul 18, 2015 at 9:45am
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    โ€œGays are worse than pigs and dogs,โ€ Zimbabweโ€™s Robert Mugabe is on record to have said. He is in good company with fellow African leaders such as Ugandaโ€™s Yoweri Museveni, who has described gays as โ€œdisgustingโ€ people; and Yahyah Jammeh of The Gambia, who says gays are โ€œmosquitoesโ€ and โ€œverminโ€.

    They are homophobes, per liberal judgement, but bastions of African values; Afro-Purists, in the eyes of the conservative African. They hold the view that homosexuality is un-African. A man fellating another couldnโ€™t be more grotesque โ€“ culturally, morally, and, in their view, naturally. It is a taboo; insufferably sepulchral. Even worse, to them, is the idea of men penetrating each otherโ€™s anuses with their phalluses; abominably un-African. Such abnormal debauchery could only be a post-colonial relic. The Whiteman contaminated Africa with his unnatural sexual craving.

    Most African countries have a strong anti-gay cultural environment reinforced by stern anti-gay laws. Uganda and Nigeria passed separate anti-gay laws about a year ago, which prescribe harsh custodial sentences for gays and their collaborators.

    Homosexuals in Africa are targets of instant (in) justice โ€“ depending on where you stand. They are, either stoned to death, or burnt alive by marauding crowds with beastly abandon. In a society struggling to find a dialectical balance between its disappearing ancient conservative values, and Afro-acquiesced invading western culture, homosexuality would be hard gulping down. It is simply irreconcilable with what is African, the conservatives and moralists will insist. Anything โ€œun-Africanโ€ must be intolerable to Africans, and must be purged by โ€˜any means necessaryโ€™ โ€“ even lynching.

    But Africaโ€™s sexual minorities are fighting back. โ€œWho defines what is un-African?โ€ They are falling on ancient traditional practices documented by anthropologists, to counter what in their view, is a misinformed perception about homosexuality being alien to Africa.

    A report titled: Expanded Criminalisation of Homosexuality in Uganda: A Flawed Narrative / Empirical Evidence and Strategic Alternatives From an African Perspective, prepared by Ugandaโ€™s sexual minorities, says anthropologists Stephen Murray and Will Roscoe, have clearly shown that homosexuality has been a โ€œconsistent and logical feature of African societies and belief systems,โ€ throughout the Continentโ€™s history.

    Other anthropologists like Thabo Msibi of the University of Kwazuluโ€Natal, Marc Epprecht, E. Evans-Pritchard and Deborah P. Amory have reached similar conclusions.

    To begin with, it is worth noting that the first documented case of homosexuality has been traced to Egypt (Africa) in 2400 BCE. Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum, two male โ€œoverseers and manicurists of the Palace of the Kingโ€ were depicted in a nose-kissing position in Egyptian art. However, not all anthropologists agree the two were homosexuals. Some argue they couldโ€™ve been twin brothers.

    Further, among the evidence documented, is a 2000-year-old โ€œexplicitโ€ San Bushman painting, which depicts men having sex with each other through the anus. Such archaeological evidence canโ€™t just be wished away, in their view. The Bushman of old wouldnโ€™t have found it necessary to document such a practice through paintings, if nothing of the sort was happening at the time. Or would they? And could both the Egyptian art, and the Bushman painting be hoaxes? It isnโ€™t at all uncommon in the world of archaeology, to fake such evidence. History is replete with examples.

    Also, the Nzinga โ€“ a warrior woman in the Ndongo Kingdom of the Mbundu โ€“ who ruled as โ€˜โ€˜Kingโ€ rather than โ€œQueenโ€, was documented by a Dutch military attachรฉ, in the late 1640s, dressed as a man surrounded in her harem, by young men dressed as women she called โ€œwivesโ€. Could that be a clear manifestation of early transgenderism and transvestitism in Africa? Or are purely traditional African rituals such as this โ€“ if, indeed, anything of the sort ever happened โ€“ being stretched beyond its limits to adduce evidence to what, perhaps, could be a modern day construct? Or is the evidence too substantial to ignore?

    E. Evans-Pritchard also recorded that the Azande, or Zande of Northern Congo, practised an institutionalised traditional custom, which allowed older warriors to marry younger men, who were between 12 and 20 years old. They served them as โ€œwivesโ€. The warriors, according to anthropologists, paid a โ€œbridepriceโ€ to the family of the young men they married, just as happens in heterosexual marriage contracts within the same traditional setting. The โ€œboy-wivesโ€ served their โ€œwarrior-husbandsโ€ sexually, and domestically. Once married, the warrior-husband referred to his boy-wifeโ€™s parents as โ€œgbioreโ€ (father-in-law) and โ€œnegbior

  42. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    “We spoke about nudity as a general rule, not confined to selected places.

    We have that already.”

    Where?!!!

    “If the powers that be wanted this as an โ€˜acceptable normโ€™ your system of laws would find the appropriate justifications. The law is indeed an ass!

    Pacha, are you talking about a specific law, legislation in general or the concept of jurisprudence?


  43. @Casewell. Why does it trouble you to agree with me? Doesn’t trouble me when I agree with you. I think it is called “keeping an open mind”. Some call it “lateral thinking”.

    Like @Jeff, I have nothing against public nudity in designated public areas, although I will not be joining as I have better ways of amusing people than by displaying my shortcomings, but good luck to those who want to – make sure you let @chad know so he can peep. Like Jeff, the thought of indulging with animals is repugnant, but in my case it is not only because of the absence of consent.

    @Well well. Point well made, as usual.


  44. “David August 21, 2016 at 11:54 AM #

    @Amused

    Have you considered that this government through its agents read AG Brathwaite, ministers Stephen Lashley and Denis Lowe have stated categorically that Barbados will not be moving from its โ€˜traditionalโ€™ position on homosexuality and related?”

    And that would have been the best thing they would have done so far. We must never bow to the pressure of distasteful foreign secularism.


  45. ” If two adult persons engage in a sexual act in the privacy of their homes, it is not the business of anybody else, no matter how much you abhor the act”

    all well and good and I have no problem with that; but how do we police and uphold the law with respect to minors who might be so coerced in a sexual act buggery or otherwise in the privacy of the home of an adult-


  46. @ Jeff

    Nudity is confined to private places, certain beaches, etc

    The activists who talk about this talk in general terms.

    Meaning the right, and we are talking in terms of western societies, to walk down Broad Street naked or attend Frank Collymore Hall without clothing. As right!

    @ Balance

    More importantly and if these matters are to be private how is the law to deal with issues when somebody bites somebody else in/on private parts.

    How are courts to establish paternity, issues of rape etc? These issues of private parts in private places, homes, are not that private as the purists would have us believe.

  47. Caswell Franklyn Avatar
    Caswell Franklyn

    The same way we police adult men introducing little girls into sexual activity. Oh sorry, we don’t do anything thing about that come to think of it. They are all over our schools. When caught, they are transferred. One recently contacted me to defend him but I had to decline. Not that he is not entitled to a defence but I would be able to sit in the same room with him without puking.

    Sent from my iPad


  48. @balance

    “We must never bow to the pressure of distasteful foreign secularism.” Really? Is the pressure of foreign Christianity that much more tasty?

    The prime purpose of converting slaves to Christianity was to make them more compliant and accepting of the masters’ tyranny. The objective was to create better “house niggers.” Looks like they did a good job.


  49. Jeff

    Indeed, there maybe a case that if consideration is offered for certain pleasures, failure to pay may result in a criminal recourse. LOL

    What is ‘private’ about that?

    Seems like a contract to us and subject to court action for breach. LOL

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