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Submitted by Pachamama

The killing of 12 and injury of dozens more at the offices of satirical publication, Charlie Hebdo, in France has to be seen in its proper context. They come on the same day the bodies of over 320 were discovered in Mosul in five mass graves. These were the victims of ISIS, ISIL or DASH. But nobody in the West is crying for these long disappeared. All the tears will be shed for the precious blood of the French 12+. Not the Izadi, Kurdish women, children and old people of Mosul – and others. In the West, we did not even miss them. We did not even know that they were dead but the blood of 12 Frenchmen will be consecrated and made to give impetus to the prolongation of unholy Western, Christian, crusades  on the Muslim world.

And this is just an example of the daily murder through war, economic deprivation and greed inflicted upon the peoples of the world by the French, in particular, and the West, more generally. The White supremacist world order of which France has always been central.

Those wars are informed by what Edward Said first called orientalism. They use the sentiment of less than 0.001% to generalize to the entirety of the world’s 1.6 billion Muslims. They try to presume that Westerners could call for a reformation of Islam, as if by right. The orientalism of which Said wrote presumes an individual’s right is of more importance that the sanctities of Islam. This was never about individual rights per se, this was always about cultural warfare. A warfare not dissimilar to the activities of France in Africa and more precisely in Algeria. A barbaric, decades long, war against the Algerian peoples. A war they lost like they will these present campaigns.

We are living in a world when such an act, as committed in France, is labelled as terrorism, by the West. Every stops and we are treated to wall to wall coverage on all media. But the definition of terrorism, if we could ever agree on one, must of necessity implicate all Western states as terrorist states and all their present and past leaders as terrorists. Surely the activities in Algeria by France must qualify as terrorism. France the country that is well known for conducting the most brutal colonial campaigns and which to this very day asserts its ‘right’ to hold unto Martinique, Guadeloupe and French Guiana in the western hemisphere. Well, Haiti is a particular case of the colonial terrorism of the French in this part of the world. And some silly Black people dare to associate ostentation or sophistication to France and a false romanticism to the French language. What contradictions!

But these illegal wars on the Muslim world are two edged swords. They are responsible to a large extent for the curtailment of the very individual freedoms the editor-in-chief of Charlie Hebdo, Jean Cubut, asserts for his improper depictions of the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). How can it be that a perceived right of an individual could be more important that the collective rights of 25% of the world’s population? What is lost to Westerners by bowing to the fair demands of Muslims or Christians, even as non-believers? We remember a time when we wanted to travel to Japan for business and had to go to a one week seminar to learn how to behave so as not to insult the Japanese. Had to change an entire wardrobe to comply with Japanese business traditions. But when it comes to Muslims the Western warrior mentality dispenses with cultural sensitivities publicly, for political reasons, of course. However, privately, the reverse is true.

France has been, except for the Iraq war, a constant member of the Western coalitions in military adventures in the Muslim world and Africa. In the case of Syria, several voices from the Muslim world warned the French and the other Western powers that they support for DASH would come to bite them – blowback! But they would not listen. They only interests was using any means necessary to topple President Assad. France therefore, made it possible for the worst of the worst to be trained, armed with special weapons, gear and equipment and given safe passage to Syria for the conduct of an unholy war against the Assad regime, on the cheap.

No Islamic scholar, no right thinking personage in the Muslim world could dissuade the French from their dangerous crusades in the global south. And they are running other military adventures either directly or indirectly, using terrorists or supine governments, over the last few years, as members of Western coalitions, in the Central African Republic (CAR), Libya, Mali, Niger, Chad and Burkina Faso. France has sent a clear message that she will reassert her role in her former colonies as a way of controlling the resources of those countries. To hell with concepts of territorial integrity! The local gatekeepers are less effective than needed, by France.

But we will be saddened when people we call ‘innocent’ are cut down in a Western capital. White people, primarily! For their blood is too precious in the sight of the Western God of money for us not to be all in mourning! At least as a pretense to achieve more money, other peoples’ things, a French neo-colonial expansionism, justification of more illegal wars.

France, as part of the so-called coalition in the current re-invasion of Iraq has been, up to last week, delivering armament to DASH, ISIS. Jesus Christ! How many times must the West to caught delivering arms to terrorists fighting the government in Iraq which they pretend to be supportive of and they can continue to say, with a straight face, that it was a mistake. This is so comical we couldn’t make it up. There are about 12 documented cases where the so-called coalition against DASH receive parachuted armament from the powers, including France. More importantly we have undeniable evidence that the command centre for the DASH terrorists in inside the United Stated Embassy in Baghdad. We challenge them to deny this! You can fool all the people, all the time, they say!

Will the real terrorists stand up? When will the people of the West wake up to see how their leaders have been taking us for a ride for far too long? How is this war on terrorism, as euphemistically defined, any different than Operation Gladio, for example? Or the misbegotten war on drugs? Or the Islamophobia gaining popularity in Europe? Is the crisis of ‘civilizations’ on the side of Muslims or are we facing an existential survivalist dilemma in the West? What are the connections between the use of Islamic terrorists and Western relationships with neo-Nazi and neo-Fascists elements in others theatres? What does it says, to us, when these so-called respected Western leaders are prepared to go to any lengths to extend privilege, extend empire, grab resources, by any means necessary?

We are well aware that the tenor of our writing will suggest to our detractors that this scribe is too dispassionate, lacks a modicum of care for the victims, and so on. That the blood of the fallen has not yet dried. Well our responses, preemptively, will include the inevitability of the incidence in France. The fair possibility that more is to come. The warnings ignored by Western leaders. A blind man could tell that it was just a matter of time. And all of the Western leaders are sighted, we think, Then we, as social scientists, were forced to conclude that the French attack might have been anticipated by those seeking to curtail the very rights and freedoms the French peoples and we in the West are too slow to see eroding, from within. Why else would a country behave in ways when even a fool could have calculated outcomes. We must assume the French are not all idiots, that there is a larger plot.

In truth, we do not attach any degree of victimology to the innocent people in France than we attach to ALL the innocence of Mosul and the world. For us, there are to be no special victims. All of these people are dead or injured. And their deaths were caused by individual terrorism OR state sponsored terrorism or both. France has long been a sponsorer and conductor of terrorism. That its chickens have come home to roost should represent a moment of reflection on its brutal past.


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166 responses to “Dateline France – When the Chickens Come Home to Roost”


  1. Suspect Reportedly Surrenders In Charlie Hebdo Attack

    ASSOCIATED PRESS

    French police were conducting a massive search for three men in Wednesday’s brutal attack on the offices of a French satirical newspaper. The youngest of the three suspects, Hamyd Mourad, 18, surrendered to police early Thursday, police told ABC. Mourad’s surrender also was reported by AFP and France24, with both citing unnamed sources.

    Police said they were looking for two brothers aged 32 and 34 from the Paris region, as well as an 18-year-old man from the city of Reims. One of the brothers has previously been tried on terrorism charges, Reuters said.

    Masked gunmen stormed the offices of the Charlie Hebdo weekly in Paris on Wednesday and opened fire during an editorial meeting. Twelve people were killed, including Charlie Hebdo’s publisher, Stéphane Charbonnier, and his police bodyguard. Economist and journalist Bernard Maris, who was a contributor to the weekly, and cartoonists Cabu, Georges Wolinski and Bernard Verlhac were also killed in the attack.

    Read the whole story


  2. People in France pay tribute to victims of the attack on Charlie Hebdo. LIVE coverage here: reut.rs/14piGPX pic.twitter.com/7bKf6BhGz2

  3. St George's Dragon Avatar
    St George’s Dragon

    That is a long post and complicated post Pachamama. Please help me to understand – do you support the murders in France or do you condem them.


  4. @St. George’s

    Of course we mourn the death of any innocent human being. But the gist of Pacha’s submission is do we also morn the death of innocent human beings when it is state sponsored by Western countries?


  5. I mourn for the poor Muslim Policeman so brutally murdered by his Muslim brother. How will Allah view that?


  6. While I may agree with somethings in the posted article, I cannot agree with anyone being murdered for publishing cartoon images of Prophet Mohammed.

    This same French newspaper also in its past history printed cartoons of christian images.

    In Syria ISIS is murdering their own people some of them fellow Muslims who may not be as fervent however these people are brown like them.

    Whether this event happened in Europe or North America I could not condone it because their populations are majority white.

    That is nonsense.

    TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE IT RIGHT.

    In Palestine where there is continual conflict I do not see the ISIS supporters gather and fight enmass against the Israelis (Jews) for their brown Palestinian brothers who have been badly unfaired and mistreated.

    Religious ideoogy does not give anyone any right to murder whether it be Judism/Christianity/Islam/Buddhism for being offended,

    Whilst as a former US Airforce military officer who sometimes during my term of service I was not always in agreement with US foreign policy.

    In fact during the 1st gulf war when Saddam invaded Kuwait and the US declared the desert storm war, I told my commanding office a full bird colonel that I was against it and would be against deployment because the people in that part of the world was brown like me and I also owned no gas stations.

    I had less than a year to go on my military service and was close to finishing my Masters Degree and was lucky that the colonel (a white officer) understood what I meant as I could have been court martialed for disobeying orders if I had been deployed as part of my squadron.

    Yes we know that we live in a world where a lot of injustices take place and collusion for monetary gain amongst many western countries but I repeat murdering people for an regiious ideology is ridiculous.

    In Israel black people are treated worse than dogs as they have an Apartheid system as bad as what South Africa was, we as black people don’t talk about or seek to correct this.


  7. religious

  8. Melva Isherwood Avatar

    This article makes a valid point that terrorism can exist on both sides of the battle, depending on whose side one is on, and that ultimately, the spoils of war are nothing but death and destruction. But I do not think it a good idea to infuse sarcasm into his description of the hypocrisy of the French government: We do not need anymore hatred! Hello World – enough already! No finger pointing, no more accusations – We must stop the “I’m right; you’re wrong” dialogues or there will be no more dialogues because we will all be wrong.


  9. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/07/152FA5CA000005DC-2900976-image-m-3_1420664304884.jpg

    Author Salman Rushdie, whose book ‘The Satanic Verses’ prompted Iranian clergy to issue a death fatwa on him, has condemned the attack on the Paris offices of satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo.

    Speaking in support of the publication, which had its old offices burned down after printing cartoons that mocked the Prophet Muhammad, Mr Rushdie said ‘religion deserves our fearless disrespect’.

    He added that the strike by suspected Al Qaeda militants, which left 12 dead, was a sign of the ‘deadly mutation in the heart of Islam.’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2900976/Salman-Rushdie-condemns-Charlie-Hebdo-attack-sign-deadly-mutation-heart-Islam.html#ixzz3OCss6QdO


  10. *We as social scientists…..This is so comical WE couldn’t make it up….we challenge them to deny this”

    Have it your way, fella.

    David

    I note you’re in illiterate mode this morning and feel it right to speak with Pacha’s voice or, rather, the voice of whichever crazy website he gets his stuff from. Actually, the gist of this post is ‘BU’s favourite paranoid schizophrenic is presenting the world with a level of garbage which is unsurpassed even for him.’


  11. As the erudite and master orator George W Bush put it on one occasion: “Fool me once shame on – shame on you. Fool me – you can’t get fooled again!”

    France Armed Terrorists that Struck Paris
    By Tony Cartalucci

    Funded by the US, trained in Britain and maintained as paramilitary extremist groups throughout Europe during the Cold War, NATO’s so-called “stay behind networks” were supposedly created to activate in the wake of a full-scale Soviet invasion of Western Europe. Instead, they were used to stage false-flag attacks, killing and maiming hundreds of Europeans with their atrocities blamed on the Soviet Union and their European sympathizers. The attacks and assassinations were used by NATO to manipulate public perception and reverse gains by political groups operating beyond NATO’s control.

    Likewise, Al Qaeda and its various franchises including its most recent and notorious, ISIS, is being used simultaneously as a domestic menace and a foreign expeditionary mercenary force.

    Indeed, out of one side of President Hollande’s mouth he would condemn the attacks in Paris, and out of the other, continue calling for the arming and backing of the very networks this attack originated from in order to continue the campaign of violence and terror in Syria.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/france-armed-terrorists-that-struck-paris/5423440


  12. What the world needs on both sides of the divide is tolerance.

    Do you want to kill me, asked the fallen police officer

    OK chief, said the gunman

    Moment officer – believed to be Muslim – was murdered in the street as he pleaded for his life

    A video from the scene of the massacre shows married officer Ahmed Merabet, 42 – believed to be a Muslim – lying on the pavement and begging for mercy…

    dailym.ai


  13. Is is interesting to read that Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Dianne Feinstein feels compel to champion anti torture legislation. There is a lot we can do to deflate the East West tension in the world.

    http://time.com/3654577/dianne-feinstein-torture-bill/

  14. Easy Squeeze (make no riot) Avatar
    Easy Squeeze (make no riot)

    http://youtu.be/dzoNdsniFZY

    Charlie Hebdo provoked Muslims and got shot

    Since 911 all incidences should be considered as possible false flags as per Nazi leaders who want war

    So there are 2 options for consideration

    1. False flag by NWO to justify war on terror, police with guns, spying on citizens, loss of rights based on growing islamophobia
    2. Terrorists trying to stir up National Extremism Racism to drag White Europe into War

    USA are not only covert agents who could or would engage in false flags to manipulate populist opinions and press agents have been banging on about growing anti-Zionism in Europe since Palestinian War


  15. So Mohammed had a child bride,if so,he was a paedophile.Paedophiles are lunatics.Ipso facto,Mohammed was a lunatic.Further the holy book of these folk say kill every Christian.Pacha,you got to be kidding me that I should even think of supporting your rave.No way Jose.
    My preference is for Love your neighbour as yourself.My preference is for free expression of opinion including satire which blind faithed ideologues seek to remove from a safe distance ,with their brand of justice…an AK 47…
    I,too,fear those Islamists in our midst who got a political vote buying decision to establish a gated community in 21st century Barbados.Let a Christian sect try doing that in an Islamist country.Never happen.The worst person in the world is a religious bigot.Islam is religious bigotry.


  16. France only has the death penalty for the good people not the criminals

  17. Easy Squeeze (make no riot) Avatar
    Easy Squeeze (make no riot)

    Judge No Man

    We are all from same God
    Abrahamic faiths (Christianity, Islam, Judaism have same God)

    Christianity 32.5%
    Islam 21.5%
    Non Religious 16%
    Chinese Religions 6%
    Primal Faiths 6%
    Buddism 6%
    Sikhism 0.4%
    Judaism 0.2%

    http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/mysticism/world_religions_populations.htm


  18. Some of you don’t get it. France is a secular society. These people use satire directed at the Pope, Bishop – anybody is a target. The underlying issue is to what extent the right to freedom of expression should be compromised based on the need to avoid offending the sensibilities of Islam or another religion.


  19. @ Gabriel
    A reasonable position to take, however life is comprised of VERY complex algorithms which are not always immediately obvious.
    These radicals are all mad as shiite…..in some cases justifiably so…

    Do you remember Libya?
    Qaddafi was classified as a semi-demon who imposed radical sanctions on his people …as did Saddam in Iraq.
    subsequent events have now shown that the alternatives were EVEN MORE RADICAL idiots who have now gone on to destabilize the whole world….and that indeed and in fact, the tactics used by Qaddafi and Saddam were the ONLY practical methods of administering law and order in that part of the world.

    Points to note:
    In pre- destroyed Iraq and Libya, the standard of living, level of development, education, levels of crime, levels of poverty were BETTER than in most western countries.

    France took an enthusiastic lead role in destroying these countries.

    Karma is a bitch….and sometimes it is administered by radical idiots…

  20. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    I will borrow from Pachamama this quote “A war they lost like they will these present campaigns.” and though a saddened denizen of this planet, saddened by the burgeoning intolerance and the totally out of hand indifference to life, I would wish to say a few things.

    In our not distant past, France and other western sovereign governments have conducted not dissimilar campaigns of callous and in humane treatment of less armed objectives of their incursions.

    January 1961, Patrice Lumumba was one in a series of actors on this stage of life who , because of the cardinal sin of being president of resources that foreign interests sought, would have offended many states and was condemned to death.

    I borrow fro another writer elsewhere in cyberspace ” “Allen Dulles, the director of the CIA, cabled the CIA station in Léopoldville, the capital, in August 1960: “We conclude that his removal must be an urgent and prime objective and that under existing conditions this should be a high priority of our covert action.” ”

    We should not, even though saddened by the loss of life through these non-natural means, or emotively driven by the specific images of a Muslim man, begging for his life on a sidewalk, loose sight of the bigger picture, intolerance on both sides and the fact that the expansionist policies of “civilized ” countries has contributed in no small part to these homing pigeons coming back to the roost.

    This can change.

    I said that nine years ago but I am now a little wiser because I now understand that peace and amicable co-existence DOES NOT FEATURE in the policies of a cvntry which has billions of $$ in implements of death.

    If I make can harvesters I will seek to sell my goods in agrarian countries where sugar grows but if I make guns and bullets after a while stockpiling bullets and not firing the down range leads to rusted barrels and suspect ammunition which don’t work

    The answer is facing us right there in the ages of the commendable frontline team.

    A few of you will of course cuss de ole man for admiring the efficiency in their operation but precision and success whether militarily or politically MUST BE GIVEN its due.

    The assassins in this case are young men (in other arenas) they are young women.

    The first steps are that The League of Nations has to stop paying lip services to peace and the eradication of poverty etc that they pretend to uphold under the banner of “Peace and Security ”

    The second step is a global concerted focus on education rather indoctrination of the fertile minds of our Youth, 40 years, of unflinching commitment, until, like the period post the Exodus of the Israelites from Egypt, this generation and the one before us dies, hopefully to be replaced by this new , unsullied youth with tolerance for other races and a real commitment to peace among our tribes

    But that speaks of the beating of swords into plough shares doesn’t it which I am reliably informed Pachamama is from the while infidels Bible.

    Of late, the ole man in a (forlorn?) attempt to make sense of this (religious, social, political and economic) intolerance has taken to reading commentaries on the Quran where I came across this “O mankind! We created you from a single (pair of a) male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may know each other. Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (one who is) the most righteous of you…. ” it seem somewhat like Genesis ” so GOD created man in His Image in His Image and Likeness created He him..”

    Sometimes it seems to me that it is Man not GOD nor Allah who through our intolerance and limited beliefs and interpretation causes all these schisms while we seek to carry out the Work that He Who Is, was and ever shall be, The Creator of all that we see and cannot see, who does not need our infinitesimal help from the mouths of Kalashnikovs/AK 47s to make His Will manifest


  21. New terror in Paris as female police officer is shot dead and street cleaner blasted in the face as he grappled with ‘North African wielding assault rifle and wearing bullet-proof vest’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2901670/Gunman-arrested-Paris-police-officers-seriously-wounded.html#ixzz3OEsC9Fkw

  22. Margaret Ann Harris Avatar
    Margaret Ann Harris

    France is the country in which famous ultra-conservative Jean Marie le Penn recently proclaimed to the world, Ebola’s power to depopulate nations, an outdated Malthusian theory of population reduction. Undoubtedly Le Penn was referring to “sanitising” developing countries populations and none other for that is where the epidemic is concentrated. France is a European country in which anti-immigrant sentiment is high, where the Roma people are treated with brutal and immoral dismissiveness, where some of the first books about the inferiority of the black races were written and where on the French side of Geneva, in a church on Sunday mornings in 2007, white French parishioners removed themselves when blacks occupied the same pew. Down the road in that same town was/is a statue of Rousseau, who is acclaimed for writing a treatise on inequality. The irony at the time was startling.

    Thewhole of Europe, even Sweden, are in a stew these days about immigrants of colour in their midst. I listened to a BBC news feature several months ago about immigrants on the French/UK border who were denied opportunities to benefit from donations of food and other rations by French authorities. The ultra right has resurfaced in France. Predictions are that Jean Marie Le Penn’s grand daughter Marine is seeking a name change to the National Front party, now gaining in ascendency, and she is offered that right to rename the party, more French nationals are likely to join and perhaps return a conservative government to power.

    But that does not mean that killing journalists with a tendency to inflate racial and religious passions through infamous/famous cartoons depending on which side of the ideological/religious debate you are on, is the thing to do. Said’s thesis on Orientalism comes to haunt indeed like chickens come home to roost. Said’s concerns were about the cultural impacts of a particular kind of racism – given the many shades racism hides itself under. He was worried about the perpetuation of racial stereotypes and he recognised that the centuries old regional battle between East and West was far from over since the cultural significance of “difference” was itself a deeply entrenched non military war of massive psychological proportions.

    The prelude to a greater and deeper peace is often the road to war. And if it is that that is how we are as human beings then that is how we are and no amount of philosophising will essentially alter that trait. But I can’t agree with what happened in France yesterday any more than I can with the massacre of miners in South Africa or the shooting to death of little black boys in the US, the kidnapping and obvious rape of little girls in Nigeria. Being called “nigger” on my first visit to France (1992) is no reason for me to kill a French garbage worker.

    It’s not that I don’t understand why wars might take place. An assassination is an assassination, history is history and France’s place is not any more peaceful than any other European nation in respect of race. I favour trying to push the race i.e human race forward as peacefully as we can. I understand what happened to Charlie yesterday but I do not agree with it. That being said I would not like to be in the psychological space of a radical Muslim, analysing why they wish to protect their prophet or their sacred Islamic spaces in Jerusalem or the sacredness of their countries from western encroachment and conquest. I remember too that at another point in history, Muslims conquered parts of Europe. The broader questions however do not really speak to why this massacre took place in a world that was supposed to be the best of all worlds that we have known. That in itself is an open debate…


  23. People use the name of Jesus in profanity daily, and we do not hear Christians try to kill them. a young Muslim student here in this country said it THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MODERATE MUSLIM. He should know. Why do Muslim feel threatenED whenever someone says something against their so-called prophet. Wonder what the members here in Barbados are saying. As an aside, I have noticed that there seems to be an increased number of blacks joining this religious cult .


  24. @Anne
    the reality is that Muslims are INTOLERANT! NO IMAGES of the Prophet are permissible. You can NOT even choose to change religions without the prospect of DEATH!

    The leading Imams advocate total SUBMISSION from the West, NOT Muslims adapting or assimilating.

    Political Leadership in Western countries MUST make it very clear that while Muslims are welcome that SHARIA LAW NEVER WILL BE!


  25. @Anthony January 8, 2015 at 12:49 AM…That is nonsense. TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE IT RIGHT.”

    Well said sir.

    This type of 10,000 ft analytic discourse is always amusing – dangerously amusing. It’s like a Google map perspective: the terrain looks awesome from on high but when you get down to street level view you see all the cracks, crevices, deep potholes and abject seamy side of life.

    According to the author’s “chickens-come-home-to-roost” analysis the innocents are dead as a result of their government’s ill conceived policies going back as far as the Haitian revolution and beyond and continuing right up to present day failed practices in destabilizing a duly elected Assad government.

    In sum, France’s hands are dirty have been dirty for generations and anything that happens within the realms of terrorists’ or other behavior is fundamentally nothing more than they deserve.

    No one necessarily deserves death and destruction but there is some truth to his thesis even as it’s annoyingly self-serving.

    The context as noted is true of France as it is of the Caesar’s Romans as it is of Putin and Stalin before him, so too the big bad US and the Stuart government: Governments powerful and puny alike, set an agenda and will steamroll anyone to achieve that plan: it can be aggressive, progressively good or regressively unseemly and can often involve illegal & unethical actions. Such is the life into which we are born and has been since the dawn of time.

    So for the author to be taken seriously he cannot masquerade this as intellectual discourse ( with references to ‘Edward Said’ and ‘we, as social scientists’ ) when he presents such a biased dispensation against Western philosophy: “…All Western states as terrorist states and all their present and past leaders as terrorists…” . Is that to suggest that the Eastern states, (Asian, Muslim et al) cannot be so described or is that a new intellectual exposition. Nonsense.

    This piece is not about free speech and Charlie Hendo ‘a-tall’, but rather a screed on one of the author’s favorite rants: the hegemony of Western Civilization.

    More power to him to speak his mind. I do wish his fanatical Muslim brethren – who DO NOT represent the Muslim world – would afford others that same right.

  26. Easy Squeeze (make no riot) Avatar
    Easy Squeeze (make no riot)

    Money Brain

    From your ignorance you are obviously no theologian

    Muslim Converted To Christian Priesthood (Quran Points To Christ)


  27. @ Anne January 8, 2015 at 10:25 AM … I have noticed that there seems to be an increased number of blacks joining this religious cult “—————-

    First up, Islam is not a cult unless you want to describe Christianity in that way also.

    Secondly, going back to Malcolm X in the 1960s (he being the popular figurehead) Islam/Muslim teachings were disseminated upon Blacks certainly in US and by extension throughout the region. The US Nation of Islam certainly does not seek or get into the public glare much these days but I presume Min. Farrakhan is still there doing his thing.

    Whether Islam is growing among blacks in this western world now, I really don’t know. But the fact is it has a history with Blacks that has NOTHING to do with these types of fanatical terrorists actions or this ISIS matter.


  28. @EASY

    PROSPECT—something that MIGHT happen!

    In future please try to utilise Google, a Dictionary et al before commenting!


  29. @Dee Word
    The US Nation of Islam has very little resemblance to true Islam. Naming something does NOT make it so!
    When X went to Mecca he changed dramatically and that contributed to his assassination! You seriously believe that Elijah M was religious???? X did NOT!

    Some of the concepts, organisation etc of EM were excellent for Black peeps though.


  30. How is it possible for the author to distill the very complex issues of an insurrection in Syria to validate blow-back here.

    Again the author is ACCURATE: : ” …several voices from the Muslim world warned… that they support for DASH would come to bite them – blowback! They only interests was using any means necessary to topple President Assad. France therefore, made it possible for the worst of the worst to be trained…”

    But wait a minute is this not the same Assad government that was accused of using chemical weapons against it’s own people, accused of crushing dissent and a ‘popular’ uprising with undue force and terror.

    The worst of the worst …eh. Eeny, meeny, miny, moe Pick one. Who is really better Assad or his antagonists..

    So a group of satirist deserve to die…anyone deserves to die because they voiced an opinion .

    This is the same author who was part of those who were rightly p’ed off when the phillipian elected official got incensed and brought charges over a Facebook post.

    Now all of a sudden the same basic thing (and yes it certainly is basically free speech) becomes a major inter-country political subterfuge that creates acceptable collateral blow-back.

    You gotta-to-be out of your (insert adjective) mind.

  31. Margaret Ann Harris Avatar
    Margaret Ann Harris

    There are many strands of Muslims as there are many degrees of French. it is not fair to the Muslim community to demonise Muslims. I’m certainly not going to demonise my father because he was once a black Muslim. His reasons were known to himself and many of them were based on the unequal position of blacks in the world. His world was more tainted then by racism and lack of opportunity than the world we are supposed to live in now.

    The point I was trying to make is that the wars may be justified on many levels; but to generalise about who and what Muslims are is to play into the hands of western media that wants you to believe all things are wrong with Muslims, as they wish people to believe all Putin’s actions are illplaced.

    Do the ends justify the means? I am not sure. Are there any other means – what are the avenues open to Muslims? Push a man or woman too far against the wall and they will rebel. Disrespect someone and if they have an ounce of courage to their name they will find a way to fight back. It is the nature of the fight that will dignify or not the battle.

    France introduced a bur’qua ban sometime ago, a law that was upheld in the European Human rights courts. Surely that is a moral attack on another culture and space as citizens? France does not tell nuns or monks what to wear. How diverse can humanity be if the French court has jurisdiction over one’s culture. When that Polish part of the Russia was returned to Poland after the dismantling of the Soviet Union – I wondered what the new Polish people born in Russia felt. what part of them was being left behind in Russia?

    So my question is : How far should state policy go in furthering zenophobia? and how does a victimised minority react? There is a Black family gang in the US now .. that is a reaction to racism in the US. I’m saying all parties need to sit at the table and talk because the floodgates are so far open that it’s really hard to come back. Muslims born in France have a right to wear their bur’quas as haitian children born in the DR have a right to be entitled as citizens.

    The attack yesterday was too strong and in my view ought to be condemned. But demonising all Muslims and stereotyping them is precisely what Said fought against. That’s similar to stereotyping black people as lazy and ignorant. How would we react to the fact that Assata Shakur a black US woman is exiled in Cuba for allegedly killing a policeman and was sentenced to 127 years/ how do you react to the existence of the black panther movement which was anti-racist but also prepared soup kitchens for the poor and famously had educational outlets for youth? I mean as long that there’s racism/stereotyping, racial profiling under whatever pretext, people will not know peace – as Bob Marley said, war, whether we think it right or not.


  32. Moneybrain………as we both know, these religions have been used to distract people from real life issues for centuries. The people who are embedded in these religions are little less than beasts and wild animals. The real issues get masked by the fanatical idiocy of believing in man-made concepts….we still have centuries more to go.


  33. @MoneyBrain January 8, 2015 at 11:05 AM..”The US Nation of Islam has very little resemblance to true Islam….”

    All well said, sir, but you know enough to know – so a good Rumsfeldian, known known) that Elijah Mohammed based his ‘cult’ (and here that word is applicable) on Islam. The fact that he subverted it to suit his needs is no more than the many pastors, priests and other ‘acolytes’ who subvert Christianity and make it their own thing.

    He was as religious as any of those Catholic priests recently dismissed by the Pope or as religious as Jim Jones or that matter.

    And yes, when a disciple sees the light there can be a lot of inter-personal darkness that follows between him/her and their spiritual leader.

    I’m sure you have read about what went on in the Vatican surrounding Pope John Paul’s death, the Vatican bank fraud scandal, the hanging death under the Black Friar’s bridge etc etc so please don’t let us get into the unseemly world of who is a better Christian or Muslim than whom.

    All of it is and them are disgusting. Sp we take our faith where we want to and stand fast on the good and dismiss the bad. Faith.


  34. @WW
    Yep there is a 1400 year gap.

    These IMAM guys still are pissed because they did not vanquish Europe in 12-1300s or on their last attempt at the gates of Vienna. There current strategy of the West could prove very problematical for poor Western Pols who are NOT Leaders in reality.

    The radicals need to be ERADICATED from the West like the VERMIN they are. This is not to say that the West has clean hands in dealing with the ME. However, the innocent citizens should NOT have to be terrorised by these crazies.

    These bastards pretend to be holier than thow BUT I have seen with my own eyes how the Princes of Saud behave when I was in Ebiza a couple years ago. My ship was berthed when this massive ship arrives with Arabic name and soon followed by a Navy Cutter of obvious Arabic source. At first I was a little concerned that this may have been a 911 attack on my US Cruise Ship (since this was like 9/9 but this was soon dismissed when RRs, Bentleys and Luxury Mercedes started rolling onto the dock. Then the Princes and a profusion of Russian/ East European Prostitutes rolled off the ship owned by the House of Saud. Cursory investigation yielded that the Crown Prince regularly enjoys total debauchery in Ebiza!

    Please remember that the Saudis are supposedly the most conservative of Muslims being dominated by ultra orthodox Wahabists.

    MIND CONTROL of the masses indeed! (the primary goal of the “elites” globally)


  35. @Dee
    No argument from me as most leadership proponents of Religion are intent on Controlling the masses, period! The opium of the masses as it is said.

    ” Dont you think just let us control you!”

    Far too many simpletons just fall into this trap!

    I know people with wickedly strong cancer throughout their bodies who seriously believe that God will cure them!

  36. Mo Was A Kiddie-Diddler Avatar
    Mo Was A Kiddie-Diddler

    Oh, sheeeeat! Now various petty criminals with disagreeable facial hair and the brains of toads are going to plot to murder me because of their stupid superstition.

    Well, sheeeeeat!


  37. Knowledge takes us to the stars. Allah makes us fly planes into buildings.


  38. Prime Minister Stuart has comments on this matter condemning the action. Jesus take the wheel.

    On Thursday, 8 January 2015, Barbados Underground wrote:

    >

  39. Tony Clarkie Clarke Avatar
    Tony Clarkie Clarke

    Obylasee, as auto-didact social scientists it are obyas to us dat dis are a false-flag, black-ops, black-helicoperist, New Word Orderist operation directed by Oistinsist Trickydadian Saudi-sanctioned Illuminati Joo-Mormons who come in dey chariots to vanquish the Veganist, smiley-facist facist social scientist-ists. But we will not be cowed, exclamation, smiley face, like me on Facebook. For Facebook were invented in the Nile Delta in BCE 4000. Twitter, too.

  40. Easy Squeeze (make no riot) Avatar
    Easy Squeeze (make no riot)

    Dedicated to Mother Long Tongue
    White boy with big mouth

    http://youtu.be/zvQT_wLG2iU

  41. Margaret Ann Harris Avatar
    Margaret Ann Harris

    Ft said Charlie Hebdo went too far and then retracted; Salon provides some info on what Charlie Hebdo represented in the eyes of the mainstream French media.

    Salon: ” But Charlie Hebdo is not just some random publication that made fun of Muhammad. It’s something closer to a canary in the coal mine of democracy. It’s a dissident, thorn-in-the-side paper that was once closed down by its own government, in the putative homeland of liberty and equality. It’s a paper that has doggedly sought out the outer edge of acceptable expression, a paper devoted to offending anyone and everyone and to scourging those who hold power over others.

    Charlie Hebdo belongs to a distinctly French tradition of sharp-fanged humor – directed at the powerful, the smug, the sanctimonious, the intolerant and the bourgeois of all backgrounds and nationalities – that goes back at least as far as Voltaire and the 17th century. Its cartoons and gag lines don’t translate into English particularly well, and there is no precise American parallel. Indeed, I don’t think anything like Charlie Hebdo would be readily tolerated in America, beyond the margins of the far left or far right. Our social contract functions very differently from the atheistic and secular culture of Parisian public discourse, and the American media is generally required to treat even the most ludicrous aspects of religion with hands-off respect. (I’m not honestly sure whether this is good or bad, but if a devout Mormon tried to run for public office in France, he or she would be laughed off the stage.) I suppose the Onion comes the closest to being an American Charlie, but it brackets itself as “fake news” and only intermittently approximates the French paper’s consistent tone of bite, bile and confrontation.

    If Charlie Hebdo is best known for its scathing, frequently heavy-handed and fundamentally serious satire — directed at all manner of political, religious and corporate leaders, and reflecting what Charbonneau described as “all components of left-wing pluralism, and even abstainers” — the publication’s name carries an untranslatable flavor of Gallic absurdity. It refers both to Charlie Brown, star of Charles Schulz’s “Peanuts” strip, which was once a popular feature, and also to legendary French president and national hero Charles de Gaulle, the absolute paragon of what Charlie exists to deflate. Perhaps a French reader can correct the details, but as I understand the history Charlie Hebdo is the successor to a weekly called L’Hebdo Hara-Kiri (hebdomadaire being the charmingly antiquated French word for a weekly paper), which was banned by the government in 1970 for its mocking coverage of de Gaulle’s death. (Did anyone, even the Onion, say mean things about Reagan on the day he died?)

    Now, of course, the name of Charlie Hebdo is “changed, changed utterly,” as William Butler Yeats wrote, in a different context of bloodshed and martyrdom almost a century ago. It will forever be associated with the unforgettable and unforgivable crimes of a chilly morning, early in the New Year. That morning brought with it the worst terrorist attack in France for decades (probably since the late ‘60s) and the deadliest attack on freedom of expression in the recent history of Western journalism. It was a dreadful day for humorists, cartoonists, commentators and critics all over the world, and a dreadful day for the great city whose history of political and artistic revolution embodies the human struggle for liberty more than any other. It was also a pretty dire day for public discourse, much of it intemperate and ill-considered, and it’s likely to be remembered as a dark day for Muslims in the West, the semi-intended collateral damage of this attack, who will repeatedly be blamed for something they did not do and asked to renounce a noxious ideology almost none of them share.

    Charlie Hebdo is not an anti-Islamic publication, at least not as such. You could say it’s an anti-Islamic, anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, anti-American, anti-nationalist, anti-capitalist and anti-militarist publication. It has long been committed to outraging true believers of all stripes; if it hasn’t gotten around to being anti-Buddhist, that’s only because that has not seemed necessary. Many people in France would have described it as being anti-French, at least until Wednesday. So when we encounter a shameful spectacle like that of Financial Times editor and columnist Tony Barber castigating Charlie Hebdo for “just being stupid,” and suggesting that “editorial foolishness” invited disaster, we need to consider the source. Charlie was – and still is, let us hope – an implacable enemy of the complacent, Armani-suited global capitalist order that the Financial Times represents, an order eager to do business with the repressive despots and oil tycoons of the Muslim world and correspondingly eager to avoid giving offense. (The FT has since published a revised version of Barber’s column, with the ire rendered more diplomatic.)

    At least the FT was honest about articulating a view also held by many other mainstream media outlets who won’t admit to it. (Time magazine’s Paris bureau chief wrote something remarkably similar after Charlie Hebdo’s offices were firebombed in 2011.) That should serve as a clue that when considering Wednesday’s dreadful attack we cannot default to reductive nostrums about “Western freedom” and “Islamic intolerance,” although we should not dismiss those categories as irrelevant. Those are interdependent clauses or mirror images, one might say, each defined by the other and neither quite what it appears to be.

    The civil society made possible by Western capitalism is a great accomplishment, and also one that has external costs and consequences we rarely witness… (MH: Was it the only place in the world that had forms of civil society??? Western media always make these kinds of claims)

    …One can believe both things at once. Similarly, the carnage in Paris represents a tiny proportion of the bloodshed inflicted on civilians in the Arab-Muslim world by both foreign military forces and Islamic militants. At virtually the same time as the Charlie Hebdo attack, 37 people were killed in a terrorist bombing in Yemen, likely the work of al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula. (Another 26 people died there last week in a suicide bombing.) None of which excuses the criminality of the Paris attack in the slightest, or lessens its horror.

    We will hear the name of Charlie Hebdo invoked to stir up anti-immigrant passions throughout the West, to argue in favor of militarized police and a secret national-security state and endless war in the Middle East. (This event was pretty much manna from heaven for the Halloween coalition of Muslim-haters, from the talking heads of Fox News to Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris to right-wing French nationalist Marine Le Pen.) On the other side, we will also hear Charlie invoked by “moderate” and “responsible” people of Barber’s ilk, to suggest that freedom of expression should only go so far and no further, and that if we want a stable and orderly world certain topics must be left alone.

    It’s a pretty safe bet that whoever planned the Paris killings yearns for one or the other of those responses, and perhaps both. To foment an atmosphere of worsening internal and external warfare between Islam and “Western values,” and simultaneously to clamp down on those supposedly essential values, is pretty much the definition of “letting the terrorists win.”

    So when you hear people on both sides twisting this tragedy to their own ends — using what befell those who stood on the outermost cusp of freedom as an argument for tyranny — remember that those people do not speak for Charlie Hebdo. Charlie Hebdo would have mocked them without mercy. It has fallen silent, at least for now, and that urgent task now falls to us.”

  42. Oistins Committee of the DFLO Avatar
    Oistins Committee of the DFLO

    Let it be known that Tony Clarkie Clarke is a splittist from the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Oistins (DFLO) and his opinions carry no weight.

    Obviously, the slaughter in Paris was a false-flag, black-ops, kiki-ist initiative driven by the crapoverist, Newish World Orderist, Qatari-sanctioned Joo-Catholicist Illuminati Rothschildist, smiley-facist, exclamationist, facebookist, twitterist Tony Clarkie Clark.

  43. Easy Squeeze (make no riot) Avatar
    Easy Squeeze (make no riot)

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Jack

    You could a hear nana singing
    And this is what she’s singing
    Aah oooh nana aah oooh
    Aah oooh kikikikikiki it sweet sah (ie it’s sweet, sir)


  44. @Easy
    BEAT SWEEEET fa Days bruds, THANKS!

    from White boy with BIG MONEY BRAINS!

    I really have hope that you will mature like the chrysalis of the pupae and eventually become a significant Butterfly. Time will tell.


  45. What strikes me as odd is the fact that Muslims leave their countries in the Middle East, India, Pakistan and North Africa and find themselves in the western world and here in the Caribbean. They seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. They have their businesses, they do not integrate, they are not interested in assimilating. Their only interest is to establish their businesses and find folks to support them. For the record how many Muslims work here in Barbados in the Public Service. (well I guess the question can be asked for whites too. Why do they leave their countries? Do these ignorant people ever asked themselves what would happen IF everyone who happened to get upset over something they disliked killed those who upset them. These radicals are nothing but ILLITERATE folks. I think they need to stop saying that Islam is a peaceful religion. Are the local Muslims willing to come out and publicly denounce these criminals. I would bet my last dollar that they will not do it. This religion is a religion that is based on FEAR.

  46. Gimme a dollar I'm daft Avatar
    Gimme a dollar I’m daft

    The Seventh Day Adventists done it. I read it on the interweb.


  47. Time to fire up the national razor if they can rember where they put it. Funny how the heads of state are avoiding calling it Islamic terrorism what????.


  48. Jack don’t make us do it.

    On Thursday, 8 January 2015, Barbados Underground wrote:

    >

  49. Margaret Ann Harris Avatar
    Margaret Ann Harris

    Here’s an historical account of Muslim’s migration to Europe in the post war. It started out the same way West Indian migration did. We have to try to be fair to history… and they are angry says the Council on Foreign relations – not because they have failed to integrate but through a failure to integrate them. There is a difference. Jamaicans are said to be the most spirited and outgoing of West Indian immigrants in England historically – who defended and fought for rights of their fellow West Indians when others failed to do so. It was a different struggle. The radicalism of west Indians did not reach the heights of the radicalism of Muslims. the stakes are different massacre but there were riots; there were murders and some carnage in that process of rectification of “rights” and claims to new spaces. But the Muslims like west Indians were in the 30s are not all jihadists.

    We need to stop this blatant generalisation and characterisation of people and their cultures. We shouldn’t damn someone’ else’s history because we end up forgetting the light that was shone on our battles for justice in the past. because we have moved on to new spaces we should not forget where we came from. We do not like war… I do not like what happened yesterday in Paris but you have to understand its place. Though this is a different struggle to west Indians, in some ways it might be reminiscent from the angle of race. From the angle of religion, that’s an entirely different discussion.

    The Jihadists are religious radicals who have a different set of goals and interests. In that sense, Europe is also scared of ongoing bloodshed and take over of their traditional mores and cultures over the longterm. How did it get so far — a chicken and egg story I guess like all chicken and egg stories. men bearing rifles with strange sounding names beginning with the letter “K.” are not needed to shut down what might be a newspaper that took irony to the extreme that even many French people abhored. The Jihadist narrative is certainly far broader and rooted in religion, race. quest for recognition and power etc. Anarchy is not new to history and there are other ways to right perceived wrongs. I agree. But please do not forget history repeats itself over and over. How do you renegotiate terms of engagement between east and west? I think that’s what has to be worked out. Not at all easy.

    Writing in 2005, the Council on Foreign Relations: an independent think-tank:

    “The mass immigration of Muslims to Europe was an unintended consequence of post-World War II guest-worker programs. Backed by friendly politicians and sympathetic judges, foreign workers, who were supposed to stay temporarily, benefited from family reunification programs and became permanent. Successive waves of immigrants formed a sea of descendants. Today, Muslims constitute the majority of immigrants in most western European countries, including Belgium, France, Germany, and the Netherlands, and the largest single component of the immigrant population in the United Kingdom.

    Exact numbers are hard to come by because Western censuses rarely ask respondents about their faith. But it is estimated that between 15 and 20 million Muslims now call Europe home and make up four to five percent of its total population. (Muslims in the United States probably do not exceed 3 million, accounting for less than two percent of the total population.) France has the largest proportion of Muslims (seven to ten percent of its total population), followed by the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and Italy. Given continued immigration and high Muslim fertility rates, the National Intelligence Council projects that Europe’s Muslim population will double by 2025.

    The footprint of Muslim immigrants in Europe is already more visible than that of the Hispanic population in the United States. Unlike the jumble of nationalities that make up the American Latino community, the Muslims of western Europe are likely to be distinct, cohesive, and bitter. In Europe, host countries that never learned to integrate newcomers collide with immigrants exceptionally retentive of their ways, producing a variant of what the French scholar Olivier Roy calls “globalized Islam”: militant Islamic resentment at Western dominance, anti-imperialism exalted by revivalism.

    As the French academic Gilles Kepel acknowledges, “neither the blood spilled by Muslims from North Africa fighting in French uniforms during both world wars nor the sweat of migrant laborers, living under deplorable living conditions, who rebuilt France (and Europe) for a pittance after 1945, has made their children … full fellow citizens.” Small wonder, then, that a radical leader of the Union of Islamic Organizations of France, a group associated with the Muslim Brotherhood, curses his new homeland: “Oh sweet France! Are you astonished that so many of your children commune in a stinging naal bou la France [fuck France], and damn your Fathers?”

    As a consequence of demography, history, ideology, and policy, western Europe now plays host to often disconsolate Muslim offspring, who are its citizens in name but not culturally or socially. In a fit of absentmindedness, during which its academics discoursed on the obsolescence of the nation-state, western Europe acquired not a colonial empire but something of an internal colony, whose numbers are roughly equivalent to the population of Syria. Many of its members are willing to integrate and try to climb Europe’s steep social ladder. But many younger Muslims reject the minority status to which their parents acquiesced. A volatile mix of European nativism and immigrant dissidence challenges what the Danish sociologist Ole Waever calls “societal security,” or national cohesion. To make matters worse, the very isolation of these diaspora communities obscures their inner workings, allowing mujahideen to fundraise, prepare, and recruit for jihad with a freedom available in few Muslim countries.

    Since the 1990s:

    Broadly speaking, there are two types of jihadists in western Europe: call them “outsiders” and “insiders.” The outsiders are aliens, typically asylum seekers or students, who gained refuge in liberal Europe from crackdowns against Islamists in the Middle East. Among them are radical imams, often on stipends from Saudi Arabia, who open their mosques to terrorist recruiters and serve as messengers for or spiritual fathers to jihadist networks. Once these aliens secure entry into one EU country, they have the run of them all. They may be assisted by legal or illegal residents, such as the storekeepers, merchants, and petty criminals who carried out the Madrid bombings.

    Many of these first-generation outsiders have migrated to Europe expressly to carry out jihad. In Islamist mythology, migration is archetypically linked to conquest. Facing persecution in idolatrous Mecca, in AD 622 the Prophet Muhammad pronounced an anathema on the city’s leaders and took his followers to Medina. From there, he built an army that conquered Mecca in AD 630, establishing Muslim rule. Today, in the minds of mujahideen in Europe, it is the Middle East at large that figures as an idolatrous Mecca because several governments in the region suppressed Islamist takeovers in the 1990s. Europe could even be viewed as a kind of Medina, where troops are recruited for the reconquest of the holy land, starting with Iraq.

    The insiders, on the other hand, are a group of alienated citizens, second- or third-generation children of immigrants, who were born and bred under European liberalism. Some are unemployed youth from hardscrabble suburbs of Marseilles, Lyon, and Paris or former mill towns such as Bradford and Leicester. They are the latest, most dangerous incarnation of that staple of immigration literature, the revolt of the second generation. They are also dramatic instances of what could be called adversarial assimilation — integration into the host country’s adversarial culture. But this sort of anti-West westernization is illustrated more typically by another paradigmatic second-generation recruit: the upwardly mobile young adult, such as the university-educated Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-called 20th hijacker, or Omar Khyam, the computer student and soccer captain from Sussex, England, who dreamed of playing for his country but was detained in April 2004 for holding, with eight accomplices, half a ton of explosives aimed at London.”

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