Submitted by Crusoe (as a comment on the Haiti We Are Sorry blog
You list some good ideas for the structural retransformation of Haiti [Responding to Commenter Dictionary on the Haiti We Are Sorry blog]. Each in of themselves they do not depend on improved education but do depend on improved technical training (farming etc). However, for all, the long-term success of those initiatives individually and collectively leading to a successful Haiti will certainly also depend on improved education, if as we have been informed, the literacy level is so low.
This has two implications.
Firstly, immediately after initial search, rescue, medical, temporary (short and medium term) and security issues have been addressed as priority, the early reformation must include an immediate education programme, for adult and youth, such that the transformation of Haiti can begin with the active participation of her people, not as ‘serfs’ but as active individuals and communities with an understanding of the reasoning behind the methods and the aim of the methods.
I must add, that ‘transformation’ in this context is not meant to refer to bringing Haiti to the same philosophical outlook as anyone other specific group. In this context it is meant to refer to bringing Haiti to a level of self-capability and self-determination. Now, to expect say a three or four year ‘crash course’ in education and technical skills may seem either impossible or unrealistic, but unfortunately, if this is not done as one of the foundations of the rebuilding (in the context of not only structural, but as a nation of people), than all else may eventually prove futile.
This is obviously along the lines of the old phrase of teaching a man to fish instead of giving him the fish. Merely putting up structures, farms etc may certainly alleviate some misery, but while in the short term foreign contractors etc may gain much from the aid given for this purpose, the long-term goal should be to have Haitians and not only elite, but the everyday Haitian, benefit from money flows and thus create an independent people and a vibrant economy.
It is my view therefore Caricom leaders, should address the education of Haiti, as a priority, as much a priority as any other redevelopment effort.
To reinforce a point, the initial effort must not only be to set up an improved schooling system, but implement as an interim measure, an ’emergency education programme’, with the help of international authorities and the Haitian authorities. If one wants a long-term Haiti, this is essential.
We must give thanks yet again, that Errol Barrow saw the necessity of education as a developmental tool. And, we must forever resist ANY attempts to take free education from Barbadians. Indeed, those of us who wish for an improved world, must seek the furtherance of a sound even if basic education, for all peoples, as a necessity for development.
1,421 responses to “The Reconstruction And Transformation Of Haiti: A Global-Moral Imperative”
CH:
And, why is that relevant to the purpose of this thread or the substantial issues at stake on this side-track? [My thoughts on the general topic are here, and owe more to information theory,cybernetics and control systems theory than to Penrose et al. Note that quantum patterns are stochastic, not logical in their playout; i.e. it is a new guise of the random/chance. Also, wheter or not we can know the determined trajectory or stochastic patterns, so logn as the control on mind is a-rational, the self-refutation of evo mat ideas obtains. (Cf. p 558 ff. in the just linked Google excerpt.)]
If a position is well-warranted it will stand on its merits relative to facts, logic and explanatory power.
So, to the merits we must go.
D
@Dictionary: “And, why is that relevant to the purpose of this thread or the substantial issues at stake on this side-track?
So are we all to interpret this to mean that you won’t answer my binary question?
A new (additional) question, which I would also appreciate if you answered:
Why are you et al so unable (unwilling) to answer *any* questions asked, but feel so free to speak?
(As an aside: I *so* welcome the day I have you before me under oath….)
CH:
maybe, as a fair play turnabout, I should be asking why you were so reticent on the substantial issue but want to play at rhetorical games on tangents?.
You know full well that this is a high hostility rhetorical env’t, and that I have given an answer on the material issue.
Also, note that in a google Books world, the juicy parts of major books are likely to be online, so my tlink to Google.
Penrose has interesting points but does not make a difference to the substantial issue on evolutionary materialism’s self referential factt hat it is the dominant a priori philosophical school of thought among guild scientists; nor does it rescue therm form the reductio that is ever so plainly the fruit of a priori imposition of materialism on origins studies.
That is why Johnson in his article as linked on rthe unravelling of scientific materialism, is on target:
That is what you need to address on the tangential matter, and you still need to get back to the focal issue, especially as a proposal is now on the table – and has been for what, nearly a week.
D
PS: CH, you are putting up a slanderous strawman.
Any number of times, Zoe, GP and I have answered many questions, often in considerable depth and details. What has been happening is (a) some have not liked and have been unable to address answers so have gone on to other tangents, (b) there has been a studious ignoring of substantial matters on merits [this thread being case no 1], (c) no one has time to follow up EVERY rabbit trail and rabbit trail off that e.g. Haiti to evo mat to Penrose to “you don’t answer questions”], esp where the red herring strawman ad hominem crabs in a barrel game is in play. D
@ Zoe…
Aja, is just another uninformed, sadly misinformed soul, who has take in the viscious LIE, of Arabic ‘Turnspeak’ making the Israeli’s appear as the aggressor, when in fact, they ARE, and have being the VICTIMS for over 60 years,of DIABOLICAL *TERRORISM* since returing to their ancient homeland, and the State of Israel in 1948, from the combined forces of the Arab nations, whose SOLE intent, IS to annihilate all Jews and their God-given land.
This is where I really have to ask.
Have you ever been to Israel to see for yourself, the conditiions of the Palestinian people?
How can you try to berate Aja for coming to his own conclusions based on what he saw? Do you dispel all other things (positive I must add) he has done and shown in his journeys?
Do you really believe that the IDF always act in self defence?
Do you think that they care too much about the homes they bulldoze?
Be fair Zoe man, I am not saying that Palestinians don’t commit terrorist acts and kill innocent people but please, dont come here and behave that Israel is the victims all the time.
For every terrorist act by Palestinians, I can show you one by the IDF or Mossad and you know as well as anyone else, the death toll is disproportionate!
So we can go on in circles trying to prove who are the victims and pointing fingers, but dont try to berate those who saw for themselves on the ground for their opinions.
You have yours and they have theirs.
Leave Aja out of it.
@All…
Just in case it isn’t yet clear, I’m running an empirical experiment here on BU…
I’m testing to see if Dictionary et al will answer a direct question directly.
Thus far, I would argue, the empirical data speaks for itself….
David, we can get behind the Schools of Hope initiative or something like it, or something of comparable strategic merit, and push. D
Onlookers
CH, of course is playing at being willfuoly obtuse.
I have answered the question, giving a reasonable answer, but not one that can be easily twisted into a red herring strawman ad hominem tactic. He is trying for an ad hominem any way, on the false and misleading claim that I am not answering his question.
I have answered, but I refuse to give as simplistic answer to obviously loaded questions of the order of “have you stopped beating your wife yet?”
The proper answer to a loaded false dilemma is to show that there are alternatives that are being overlooked.
And, meanwhile, after over a MONTH, CH et al are conspicuously silent on the substantial matter of providing serious support and helpful ideas for Haiti.
What is that telling us?
D
@Dictionary: “PS: CH, you are putting up a slanderous strawman.
Yeah, right. How can anyone slander anyone who’s anonymous?
@Dic: “Any number of times, Zoe, GP and I have answered many questions, often in considerable depth and details.
So then the question becomes:
Why didn’t you answer my above direct questions directly?
Let me please repeat one: Have you, or have you not, read Roger Penrose?
It’s a simple question.
Surely you can answer either “yes” or “no”….
@ D..
So, maybe we can understand why boots on the ground were an early priority; to try to hold the chaos in check.
I doubt it but lets leave it at that for now, one thing about the truth, it will be revealed.
@ David…..
Love this new look with the reply tab.
“Evolution is a very slippery term”
As, it would seem, is the term ‘Christianity’… judging from the exchanges between you, GP, Zoe, TB and Hood.
Some people take Evolution (and Christianity for that matter) out of context to support other motives. So a few people twist science to support their particular worldview… just like some people twisted Christianity to support slavery. Quoting these people is not justification for dismissing Evolution or Christianity. The theory of evolution has absolutely nothing to say about the origins of life… as well read as you are, I am sure you know this. Your attempt to dismiss evolution (macro and micro) by lumping it with materialism is dishonest… you criticize Lewontin while employing his strategy for your own ulterior motive… in other words, because you perceive a threat to your scriptural interpretation, you cannot allow an Evolutionary Foot in the door.
in other words, because you perceive a threat to your scriptural interpretation,
@ MME..
I love this !!
Just these words (to me) explains Zoe’s persistent defense of the IDF, however glaringly wrong.
Any person with half of a conscience can plainly see that Terrorism is on both sides, but Zoe always try to paint Israel as the victims.
Guess I was slow..lol but this phrase really puts it in a new (dare I say true) perspective.
Perfect love and understanding Israel ✡ ✶❉❂❒❁▼❉❏■ Vibration
I just seeing what this reply botton does.. This new look site got me intim’an’dated
@C Halsall, Man, you are woefully *ignorant* destitute, re the long violent history against the Jewish people, and your utterly stupid statement:
“What you sadly fail to understand (or, perhaps admit) is that *no* amount of security is going to stop hatred…”
That IS NOT the point, the vehement HATRED against the Jews, for over 3000 years is probably the most established historic FACT; with modern day Arab states, openly declaring THAT Israel must be destroyed, no matter how long, or whatever wicked, evil, process it takes.
The fence ‘barrier’ cannot STOP the Satanic hatred in the hearts of the Islamic Jihadists, for the Jews and their rightful State; BUT, as the empirical data shows, “…In those areas where long stretches of the fence have been completed…TERRORIST INFILTRATION have been VIRTUALLY ELIMINATED…’ Is that TOO HARD to understand, Mr. Halsall? And, “…in other areas the partially completed barrier has played a ROLE in 75% DECLINE in SUICIDE-HOMICIDE attacks…”
Is it therefore, as the world at large, and AJA, in his *ignorance* like so many others, attempt to speak on matters re Israel/Palestine, that they ARE basically IGNORANT of, as does Technician. Israel’s RIGHTFUL defense of its soveriegn Statehood, as a duly constituted nation, IS NOT Terrorism, as infered by Technician et al, IT IS a legitimate RIGHT, in the face of outright ACTS of blatant TERROISM, repeatedly and relentlessly carried out by the Palestinian Jihadist, et al, as mandated in the PA Charter, and the Hamas Charter, that whenever, and wherever, KILL the Jew, and as soon as you get strong enough, DESTROY the State of Israel!
Now, on the “science” side of things, it IS a fact, that these antheistic, pseudo-scientist, have literally *Hijacked* Science, in almost every known area of science, fom “Global Warming’ to biology, to psychology, to sociology, in a virulent, hostile, corruption of science, which is running rampant!
@MME, Dictionary is more than capable to refute the nonsense you wrote, and accused him of.
You say, “The theory of evolution has absolutely nothing to say about the origins of life…” Stop splitting-hairs man…utter nonsense!!
Further, the fact that a number of very bright, competent scientist, who are in fact, believers in the Genesis account of Creation, BUT, are NOT arguing or presenting their ID premise on anything to do with the Scriptures, rather they ARE basing their entire argument of Intelligent Design (ID) from an entirely science based inference, NOT the Scriptures.
So that, your ‘turnabout’ fallacious, irrational, sophistic, folly, that ‘…your ulterior motive, in other words, because you perceive a threat to your Scriptural interpretation, you cannot allow an Evolutionary Foot in the door.”
ID IS TRUE, rational science, NOT the pseudo-science of Lewontin and his crew of scientific fiction dreamers, (LIARS!) ID has nothing to do with interpreting the Scriptures; IT IS proper, honest, logical, sensible, TRUE Science, NOT the reckless, groundless, wild pseudo-science of Evolutionary materialism, the bigest LIE, ever to be put forth in the name of science!!!
Have you ever been to the ME Zoe, or do you depend on the western news for info.
If Aja reports on what he sees and draws his own conclusions, are we to berate him because they are different to yours.
I have sat and read the answers you try to give and you contradict more than explain. Your bias is so clear and evident that it is sickening.
When IDF soldiers take aim and shoots innocent children from the same towers in their heads, is this not terrorism? or is the rationale that we have killed a would be Jihadist good enough for you.
You claim to be Christian and just but your obvious agenda and over zealous attitude on this issue leaves a lot to be desired. How could you not even acknowledge the suffering that goes on the Palestinians side? Suffering is suffering, human beings are human beings regardless, but then again, the way you spoke about the Haitian people in their time of despair spoke volumes about your ability to be sympathetic to human beings unless they fall into your category of righteous people.
I may be “ignorant” in your eyes but I do know right from wrong and have nothing to gain from taking sides in this matter, you cannot say the same because as shown above….’in other words, because you perceive a threat to your scriptural interpretation, you cannot allow Fairness or Commonsense in the door.” (amended for emphasis)
@Technician, I do not say this to insult you and Aja, BUT, like the majority of people the world over, who have not taken the time to study carefully, both the Biblical and historic facts and evidence, regarding the Jewish people, and the modern state of Israel, DO NOT KNOW nor understand the *truth* concering why the Palestinian people have really suffered so much. Through Arab ‘Turnspeak’ a very cynical inverting of the facts, which was carefully and deceitfully crafted to create the utterly false impression, that it was the Jews in Israel who ‘displaced’ and ‘terrorized’ the Arabs in Jewish settled areas of Palestine until the current time.
This completely FALSE propaganda, was specifically repeated untold times, throughout the world media, hiding the actual fact, that IT WAS the very Arab states, who, just after the State of Israel became a reality in 1948, told their Arab brothers to LEAVE Israel in a hurry, so they could DESTROY the new state of Isreal, literally within days of her struggle to start building from scratch. These poor, now called Palestinians, were put in these refugee camps by their Arab brothers, and KEPT there, as a wicked tool, to further their wicked agenda, making Israel look like the perpertrators of this ‘refugee’ situation, that has KEPT these abused people in for over 60 years. All of the facts are there, documented, even by a few honest Arabic leaders.
Israel has made numerous attempts, over the years to give certain portions of their LAND, to the Palestinians, for the sake of peace; and IT HAS never worked for PEACE, as it only gives the Terrorist objectives of the PLO/PA, Hamas et al, exactly what they want, NOT PEACE at all, BUT, just to get closer to the very heart of the State of Israel, to further TERRORIZE and KILL and as many Jews and they can, and their ultimate AIM, to annihilate the nation of Isreal from the face of the earth, the OPENLY stated objective in the PLO/PA and Hamas charters.
Technician, you obviously do NOT know, not even a few of the facts, re Israel and Palestine, all you do is through out right ‘redherrings’ to distract from the substance of the real issue; that IT IS a sworn ideological conviction, cemented in the charters of the PLO/PA, Hamas et al, THAT all Jews and Isreal must be DESTROYED. Tell me, how can one negotiate with these Terrorist, some kind of so-called road-map to peace, WHEN, the Palestinians DON’T WANT PEACE, they want ALL Jews DEAD; Israel as a nation, MUST NOT EXIST! Period!
Israel agreed to give the Gaza strip to the Palestinians, this required the Israeli government, literally uprooting around 10,000 Jewish families who were living there; it was very ugly, as Jewish soldiers had to physically and by force, make their Jewish brothers and sisters, LEAVE their homes, so that the Palestinians could settle in Gaza. This was done by Isreal for the sake of making peace; YET, the PLO/PA dispatched more than 18,000 of its Terrorist-soldiers on missions to murder Jews, and as a result, Israel has suffered 25, 375 attacks and nearly 14,000 casualities- just during the 45 months since October 2000. This translates to 20 attacks and 10 casualities daily. The PLO/PA is at WAR with Israel, and Israel stupidly responds by trying to negotiate peace.
Over and over again, for nearly 20 years, the same scenario has unfolded almost daily. Arabs attack again and again, and Israel issued hollow threats again and again; UNTIL, a little over a year ago, Israel could NOT take this constant Terrorism and longer, and launched their attack on the Gaza based Terrorist Hamas, who HID behind Palestinian children, Hospitals and schools, knowing full well what would happen.
It is beyong reason that:
*A sovereign nation can allow military attacks to go unchecked for so long, as Israel have done.
*A sovereign nation can allow the casuality figures to increase daily.
*A sovereing nation does nothing substantial to protect its innocent citizens from terrotist attacks.
*A sovereign nation can allow itself to be controlled by foreign powers who, in a perverted way of thinking, demand Israeli restraint in the face of constant Terrorist attacks from across its borders.
Do you know what happened to America, as a result of forcing Israel to give up their right to Gaza, and the traumatic up-rooting of 10,000 Jews from their homes there? I’ll just give you this one example, as there are many others, I’ll cite another time, how serious Almight God WAS when He stated, that, “I WILL bless those who bless you…(and) I WILL curse him who curses you…” (Genesis 27: 29b).
“August 2005 was the month when Sharon expelled the Jews of Gaza from their homes. The forced evacuation was euphemistically termed “disengagement”, basically, the Jews of Gaza were made homeless, in accordance with the demands of the American President and his secretary of state, 10,000 Jews became homeless (out of a Jewish population of 6 million). On August 29th, as the Gaza operation was being concluded, ON THAT VERY DAY, America was hit by the worst natural diaster to have ever occued in America. In the New Orleans area, 500,000 people were made homeless ( in a country with a population of 300,000,000. These numbers, (500,000 homelss) as a fraction of the American population, is equivalent to 0.167. The number of Jews rendered homeless in Gaza as a fraction of the total Israeli population, is also equivalent to 0.167. The percentage of Americans rendered homeless by Hurricane Katrina is 0.167- the exact same percentage of Israeli Jews rendered homeless in Gaza as a result of the demands of the President and the State Department. The exact same percentage – this cannot be a ramdom occurance.” (Prophecies For The Era of Muslim Terror, A Torah Perspective On World Events, p.210).
This one example is not the only strange happenings occuring within America, in recent times, as its Presidents force Israel to give up their rightful, God-given land. The OT prophets state emphatically, that it IS wrong to expropriate territory from the Holy Land, which WAS decreed by Almighty God, to the Jews, as an everlasting possession.
WhoEVER messes with Israel and its LAND, will feel the judgment and wrath of Almighty God, this IS historic FACTUALITY!
David:
Re: millions and millions of dollars has been
raised[pledged] by the world.First basic fact: as a rule, such pledges in response to most disasters are significantly underfulfilled, with but few exceptions. Pledged money is not money in the bank or in hand, so to speak. Sad, but basic fact.
Next, recall the basic definition of a disaster: an overwhelming catastrophic destructive event. Chaos is a direct result, and first responders, whether local or coming in from outside, are forced into triage, whether first come first served, or by priority based on the various systems. In such a situation, if someone has not come tot he attention of the relevant powers as an urgent priority case, it is easy to make the responders look bad after the fact. (This is above and beyond the usual bumbling and incompetence that will show up in ANY human effort of significant scale. Alas, perfection is not attainable in any significantly scaled human enterprise; which the more cynical critics are quick to exploit.)
In the case of Haiti, unfortunately, there is a further factor.
Due to problems over human trafficking, and due to the influence of international agencies that have deprecated what has historically been a workable second-best but often effective solution — orphanages — there have been major administrative barriers to taking casualties overseas. Let’s just say that pilots, doctors, nurses, aid workers etc are not eager to find themselves in Haitian gaols on kidnapping charges, with their names plastered all over the ever eager international media. (I gather something like 10 children have been known to have died while waiting for permits to be medevaced out of Haiti.)
We are dealing with a mess, and it will always have some pretty ugly facets.
First response and stabilisation are not pretty nor pleasant exercises, and will never match up to perfectionistic expectations. But, that does not mean that they are not necessary, nor that we do not need to keep bumbling, incompetence and corruption in check, correcting mistakes where we can. (Here, 12 years on, we are trying to get DfID to fix 50+ “temporary” houses that were simply not well-suited to our environment and which — after falling into dilapidation very quickly and being patched up — have been
“sold” to poor displaced persons.)
But, even more important, we must not let the urgencies of first response and stabilisaiton distract us form thinking ahead to the long term but important needs of rebuilding and sustainable redevelopment.
That — as Montserrat is a reminder on — is an even bigger challenge. And, if the transition is too delayed, the likely aid agencies will be distracted by the next crisis of the day, once your crisis has moved off the headlines.
Enough of Disaster Management 101 in a bitter nutshell, at least for now.
D
MME:
Re: Some people take Evolution (and Christianity for that matter) out of context to support other motives. So a few people twist science to support their particular worldview… just like some people twisted Christianity to support slavery. Quoting these people is not justification for dismissing Evolution or Christianity. The theory of evolution has absolutely nothing to say about the origins of life
In steps:
1 –> MME, this is the usual talking-point resort when the basic issue of the imposition of evolutionary materialism on origins science studies — usually in the guise of so-called methodological naturalism, is being exposed. Don’t let it mislead you.
2 –> First, observe that the tree of life — a form of which BTW was the ONLY diagram in Darwin’s Origin — has a root [or in some versions, a cluster of roots]. The logic of macro-evolution points to origin of life issues, as the famous Darwin letter on the still warm pond highlights.
3 –> What has happned, is that they have been utterly unable to solve the problem , right from the outset; for life turns out — even in the “Simplest” forms, to be astonishingly functionally specific, organised and complex. So, they did not have a good model 150 years ago — and that continues today.
4 –> That is why CRD artfully stopped his theory short of the roots of the tree. It is convenient to emphasise the claimed trunk and branches, while leaving off the root, when you cannot plausibly address the challenges on a materilaistic basis when design has not been swept off the table ahead of time.
5 –> Similarly, Darwin swept off the table what was known in his day: there was no known large scale pattern of observed gradation and branching of life-forms, starting with the Cambrian fossil life revolution. Darwin pleaded incompleteness of the fossil record and pointed to various forms of homology, as though common design were not at least as good an explanation.
6 –> Now, we have 1/4 mn plus fossil species and BILLIONS of fossils, from all over the world and all sorts of layers. An “almost unmanageably rich” sample. It gives the same answer as in Darwin’s day: sudden appearances, stasis, sudden disappearances or continuation intot he modern world, for the major body plans. And though headlines keep on screaming about discovered missing links, subsequent studies consistently show that he problem is still unresolved, across 150 years now.
7 –> Going further, macro-evo of body plans of existing life — which is NOT a direct observation — is just one aspect of the grand materialistic evolutionary scheme commonly presented in the name of science. We have cosmological evo, galaxy evo, planetary system evo, chemical evo leading to origin of life, and then macro evo. Following up, we have linguistic evo and socio-cultural evo and technological evo adn econ evo, and voila we are here.
8 –> In short, evolution is now the central theme of he “scientific” view on origins or transformations of just about any system. the core idea is that blind chance plus forces of mechanical necessity are enough to cause spontaneous emergence of complexity and development. All, while neatly failing to address the origin of functionally specific complex information and organisation on the only empirically known source of such: design.
9 –> In short, we have reason to believe that functionally specific complex organisation leads to islands of function in vast configuration spaces that are dominated by a sea of non-function. the only known way to get to these islands reliably is design based on a map provided by intelligence.
10 –> Hill climbing to optimal performance within islands of function that makes use of modest randomised variation and rewarding of differential success, is no answer to the challenge to get to the shores of such islands. but, rhetorically, it is a proven distractor from the real issue.
11 –> And, we have some pretty clear statements from the key institutions, e.g this, form the US National Academy of Sciences in 2008:
12 –> The neat little trick? They have imposed the framing grid: natural vs supernatural, when they know or should know the real question is the natural vs the ART-ififcal (i.e. designed), and that there are quite credible — and in fact routinely used — scientific and statistical techniques for empirically detecting cases of design.
[ . . . ]
13 –> So, by playing a subtler version of Lewontin’s a priori materialism — pretending that only chance and mechanical necessity can be studied “scientifically” the US NAS has smuggled in evolutionary materialism as an a priori controlling assumption, by the back door.
14 –> This is a far cry indeed from what science, manifestly, SHOULD be (and is usually understood to be):
15 –> And when it comes to the Christian faith, the Faith, once for all delivered to the Saints, is plain and well established form authentic, accurate record and 500+ eyewitnesses. If you think that it is being twisted by specific named individuals in particular ways, JUSTIFY your claims, don’t give out atmosphere poisoning dismissive hints that may owe more to spin tactics of anti-Christian propagandists; whose name is Legion in our culture at this time. This is as opposed to the general problem we all face that at our best we struggle to consistently do the right in the right way, and especially to say the right in the right way.
16 –> And indeed there were those who twisted the message of the Bible to support race-based kidnapping, transportation and enslavement. that is why the forebears of today’s Evangelicals, Bibles in hand, led int eh campaign to defeat first the root, the kidnapping based trade, then the institution itself when it failed to die down as the roots dried up. Men like Wilberforce, Equiano, Knibb and Buxton — all four of whom would be demonised and dismissed by today’s spinmeisters as hypocritical, knuckle-dragging right-wing Fundies who are a threat to liberty and decently tolerant, educated and well ordered society. (As a matter of fact, that is pretty much how they were dismissed, the “right wing” part aside. I note, too, that many modern versions of Equiano’s inrterestign Narrative suppress the section in which he described his Evangelical Christian conversion.)
17 –> So, MME, I think you need to be a lot fairer, and that you need to read the other side of the story that he producers of our friendly local satellite TV delivered Plato’s Cave shadow shows are unlikely to tell us. (Even on Israel, there is such.)
_________________
So, MME it is time to expose and stop the rot.
D
PS: Onlookers, after over a month ins which CH has failed to provide any substantial contribution on Haiti, despite his vaunted technical prowess [remember his empty boast on how he was Negroponte’s thesis adviser, after which he “vanished” for weeks?], he has been playing at rhetorical games. he knows or should know that I have answered his question just that I will not deal with it on his loaded question simplistic terms. Similarly, had he cared to be fair minded instead of willfully and slanderously deceptive — and he has been corrected long since that one meaning of slander [and a very relevant one] is “A false and malicious statement or report about someone” [Am HD] — he would know that Zoe, GP and I have answered any number of questions in this blog and this thread. Indeed, I just above have done so again. Finally, had he bothered to read the above linked on my thoughts ont he origin of information and related issues on the origin and nature of mind, he would have seen that I have substantially addressed the Penrose- Hameroff microtubules graviton speculation [which is far more relevant to the issue than “You MUST tell me yes or no to have you read book X by person Y” (A book which I promptly linked and gave a relevant page reference on)]. But, obviously, malicious slander as a crabs- in- a- barrel- game tactic is ever so easier than dealing with the substantial issues, even on tangential matters, much less actually trying to help Haiti. A sad demonstration of what has gone wrong with our region and needs to be corrected forthwith if we are to avert horrendously destructive consequences of repeated mismanagement driven by the march of folly.
MME:
Been busy pulling stuff on programme budgeting for governments, to give some advice.
Looked back when I paused for a moment.
I see I should have linked on the central warranting argument on the Gospel and Christian Worldview/ Faith, and on worldviews choice through warranted credible truths.
I gather you are an engineer [?] or ICT person, so could you make a comment or two on the main issue in the thread, and perhaps on the ideas and proposals for Schools of Hope as a strategic transforming initiative, for Haiti? [Look a the bottom of the comments, and scroll up above. I see the embed videos seem to have been stripped off by the new format. One less tool to pull us back on focus. Oh, well . . .]
D
Footnote: For those needing to hear another side on the ME from what our friendly local and international media are likely to spin out, try here and (on the more specifically corrective side) here. So, we can form a more balanced view on the truth in light of BOTH sides of the story. [For the more commonly heard side, simply follow BBC et al.]
F/N 2: This too, on the agitprop games at work.
F/N 3: Have a look here, too, at my straight or spin analytical grid for media etc. Let’s just say – with sadness — that few media houses would consistently pass this test these days, on any number of topics.)
F/N 4: Also, here is my response on the ever popular denigratory, demonising and dismissive “fundamentalism” smear as it spreads across our region. [The good old crabs- in- a- barrel game in action . . . this one, sadly, seems to best explain the way a serious, plainly feasible proposal was treated above in this thread as it was developed, live. Y’see it was being developed by a Bible-believing and exegeting [light level: inductive Bible Study], gospel-preaching Evangelical. And “everybody knows” such are knuckle-dragging morons who are up to no good. NOT!]
David: In mod, sorry. (Does 3 links now trigger a mod?)
Sobering reading. Don’t take Fishman’s word for it, read, check his sources, think for your self.
In Dictionary’s response to MME’s misdirected perspective on matters of science, he aptly said:
“Science at its best should be an unfettered (but ethically and intellectually responsible) progressive pursuit of the truth about our world, based on observation, experiment, analysis and discussion among the informed.”
In light of this brief, but competent reasoning on the principles of truth science, as it should be conducted, by Dictionary, I’d like to quote from, Arthur Robinson, Ph.D., is a research professor of chemistry and co-founder of the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicineand Science; in his article, “How Government Corrupts Science, Veteran researcher exposes powerfully destructive effects of federal ‘help’.
Robinson makes reference to the California Institute of Technology, when he says:
“During most of its history, when housed and sponsored the work of many of the greatest scientists of the 20th Century, the California Institute of Technology proudly displayed its moto, “The Truth Shall Make You Free.”
“Today Caltech’s bureaucrats furtively HIDE this moto, if they have not cancleed it altogether – both its origins and its emphasis on the “truth” being counterproductive to the “business” of “science” in which they are now engaged.”
“Today, the “truth” seems surrounded by “lies,” and those whom we have depended upon to tell the truth appear no longer to be reliable. Worst of all, many of our scientists whom we depend upon to know the truth are…silent.”
“As the alternative media fill with news of “Climategate” and other scientific scandals, people ask: ‘What has happened to science? Has it been corrupted as have the Congress, the presidency, the media, and many of our other instititions? Can we no longer depend upon even our scientists to tell the truth?”
“As the mainstream media fill our eyes and ears with strange claims about scientific “discoveries” – claims that seem to constantly serve the interest of government that is clearly bent on enslaving us, why are most scientists not heard? Why do they and these institutions remain at best silent and at worst supportive of our enemies?”
“Every day the media carries stories with headlines like ‘Scientists say sea level rising catastrophically,’ Scientists say hurricanes increasing because of human hydrocarbon use’ and ‘Scientists say polar bears near extinction’ – claims that we learn elsewhere are just NOT TRUE. Who are these ‘scientists,’ and why do they say these things?”
“First, who is a ‘scientist?’ A scientist – in our vernacular often catagorized as a scientist, engineer or physician, depending upon his predilection to extend knowledge or apply it – is a person who seeks the truth about the world. He often originates hypotheses about how the things in the world work, and then test those hypotheses with experiments and observations. Entirely on the basis of experiments or observations, he refines or rejects hypotheses and extends his knowledge.”
“At Caltech, in the 1950s and 1960s, INTELLECTUAL HONESTY was rigorously taught – by example. There were no courses in this. The student was simply surrounded by people who always approached their work with complete honesty. Dishonesty in any action meant immediate expulsion from the campus by one’s peers. Sadly, this is no longer the case at Caltech today.”
“When a true scientist makes a statement to his nonscientist fellow citizens, he speaks only the truth as he percieves it and as it has been varified – not by hypothesis or by computer simulation, but by actual experiments and observation. Moreover, he strives to simultaneously express all of the weaknesses his statement may have as a result of the always limited data available and the ever present chance that this hypothetical interpretation of the data may be in error.”
“While, of course, few scientists stand in the ranks of Newton or Einstein, we have many thousands of fine scientists in our midst today. Their numbers have not diminished; their honesty has not faded; their humility is still evident; and they are completely dedicated to the truth. As they work to expand their knowledge of things they can see, it never occurs to them to hide inconvenient observations or to mislead their fellow men about their work. Direct falsehoods or falsehoods of omission are alien to their being, and simply not part of their lives. I have been privileged to know many very fine scientists – even one or two who struggled with dishonesty in themselves and seriously harmed their professional work as a result. Scientists are people, and people are imperfect.”
“The corruption that is pervasively evident in science today IS NOT resident in our true scientists. It is resident in people who pretend to be scientists- but are ‘scientists’ in title only. Many of these people have received university degrees in science, but they use these titles in a corrupt, nonscientific way.”
“How did these dishonest people invade the scientific community?”
‘In recent years, Dr. Robinson has also directed the Petition Project, which has obtained the support and the signatures of more than 31,000 American scientists for a petition opposed – entirely on scientific grounds published in peer reviewed journals – to the hypothesis of ‘humam-caused global warming.” (Whistleblower, Vol 19, No.2, February 2010, pp. 14,15, 16) emphasis added.
Psuedo-scientists have done a terrible harm and dishonour to the once cherished principles of ‘TRUE’ science, BUT, this cancer IS also pervasive throughout every other manner and area of life, you name it, and this intellectual dishonesty is there!
JUST RECIEVED THIS NOTE ISNT IT INTERESTING?
BE SURE TO READ THIS!
IN CASE YOU MISSED IT
In 1952 President Truman established one day a year as a National Day of Prayer.
In 1988, President Reagan designated the first Thursday in May of each year as the National Day of Prayer.
In June 2007, (then) Presidential candidate Barack Obama declared that the USA was no longer a Christian nation.
In 2009 President Obama, canceled the 21st annual National Day of Prayer ceremony at the White House under the ruse of “not wanting to offend anyone”.
On September 25, 2009 from 4 am until 7pm, a National Day of Prayer for the Muslim religion was held on Capitol Hill, beside the White House. There were over 50,000 Muslims that day in DC.
Guess it doesn’t matter if “Christians” are offended by this event – we obviously don’t count as “anyone” anymore.
The direction this country is headed should strike fear in the heart of every Christian. Especially knowing that the Muslim religion believes that if Christians cannot be converted they should be annihilated.
This is not a rumor – Go to the website to confirm this info:
_www.islamoncapitolhill.com
We must pray for our nation, our communities, our families and especially our children.
@ Zoe….
You have really out done yourself this time!!
This is not meant as an insult but you NEED help and I mean psychiatric help ASAP!!
God punished USA, the biggest supporter of Israel (10 billion dollars a year) for the uprooting of Jews in Gaza, by killing thousands of poor black people in New Orleans with Hurricane Katrina.
I dont know who is more ignorant or stupid, you or these lunatics down Black Rock behind the green gates.
I guess every “natural” disaster the earth has experienced is because of what the people have done.
Jamaica had theirs, Montserrat, Haiti, Chile, Thailand etc!
It is this same ignorant ideology that makes Israel snub and do as they like under the guise of self defence…..
It is so ironic that this is a people who the MAJORITY dont even accept that Christ came as the Messiah..lmao….yet still God will punish any who messes with them….what a crock!!
You need this ideology though because with out this line of thinking, you beliefs will crumble to dust.
So you go ahead in you paranoid state of delusion to justify a belief, while I will continue to see it for what I choose to see it as.
Right now you are sounding just as deceitful and ridiculous as the very people you berate on this blog.
I cant be bothered with you anymore ….. I dont think you are playing with a full deck!!
@Zoe…
You sure can write a lot.
@All…
You might wish to consider reading the following before taking Zoe at his absolute word… http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-11-12
@ Zoe…..
I know you will try to dispel this but it made for interesting reading anyhow….
By Donald Neff
Former Israel Bureau Chief for Time Magazine
Excerpted from Fifty Years of Israel
On Dec. 29, 1977, Christians in Israel and the occupied territories protested a new law passed by the Israeli parliament making it illegal for missionaries to proselytize Jews. Protestant churches charged that the law had been “hastily pushed through parliament during the Christmas period when Christians were busily engaged in preparing for and celebrating their major festival.” The law made missionaries liable to five years’ imprisonment for attempting to persuade people to change their religion, and three years’ imprisonment for any Jew who converted. The United Christian Council complained that the law could be “misused in restricting religious freedom in Israel.”
Donald Neff has been a journalist for forty years. He spent 16 years in service for Time Magazine and is a regular contributor to Middle East International and the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. He is the author of five excellent books on the Middle East.
Nonetheless, it came into force on April 1, 1978, prohibiting the offering of “material inducement” for a person to change his religion. A material inducement could be something as minor as the giving of a Bible. Although the Likud government of Menachem Begin assured the Christian community that the law applied equally to all religions and did not specifically mention Christians, the United Christian Council of Israel charged that it was biased and aimed specifically at Christians since only Christians openly proselytized. Council representatives also cited anti-Christian speeches made in the parliament during debate on the law. Parliament member Binyamin Halevy had called missionaries “a cancer in the body of the nation.”
The next year Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, considered a political moderate, issued a religious ruling that copies of the New Testament should be torn out of any edition of a Bible owned by a Jew. Israeli scholar Yehoshafat Harkabi wrote that he was disturbed by “these manifestations of hostility-the designation of Christians as idolaters, the demand to invoke the ‘resident alien’ ordinances, and the burning of the New Testament.” Observed Harkabi: “Outside of the Land of Israel Jews never dared behave in this fashion. Has independence made the Jews take leave of their senses?”
Desecration of Christian property and churches—arson, window breaking, burning of the New Testament—had long marred relations between the two communities. A small but fanatical group of Jews wanted no Christians, whom they considered fallen Jews, in Israel. This virulent strain of prejudice had been present since before the Jewish state was founded.
For instance, after the capture by Jewish forces of Jaffa on May 13, 1948, two days before Israel’s birth, there was desecration of Christian churches. Father Deleque, a Catholic priest, reported: “Jewish soldiers broke down the doors of my church and robbed many precious and sacred objects. Then they threw the statues of Christ down into a nearby garden.” He added that Jewish leaders had reassured that religious buildings would be respected, “but their deeds do not correspond to their words.”
On May 31, 1948, a group of Christian leaders comprising the Christian Union of Palestine publicly complained that Jewish forces had used 10 Christian churches and humanitarian institutions in Jerusalem as military bases and otherwise desecrated them. They added that a total of 14 churches had suffered shell damage, which killed three priests and made casualties of more than 100 women and children.
The group’s statement said Arab forces had abided by their promise to respect Christian institutions, but that the Jews had forcefully occupied Christian structures and been indiscriminate in shelling churches. It said, among other charges, that “many children were killed or wounded” by Jewish shells on the Convent of Orthodox Copts on May 19, 23 and 24; that eight refugees were killed and about 120 wounded at the Orthodox Armenian Convent at some unstated date; and that Father Pierre Somi, secretary to the Bishop, had been killed and two wounded at the Orthodox Syrian Church of St. Mark on May 16.
Churches were again desecrated during the 1967 war when Israel captured East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza, completing the occupation of all of Palestine. On July 21, 1967, the Reverend James L. Kelso, a former moderator of the United Presbyterian Church and long-time resident in Palestine, complained of extensive damage to churches adding: “So significant was this third Jewish war against the Arabs that one of the finest missionaries of the Near East called it ‘perhaps the most serious setback that Christendom has had since the fall of Constantinople in 1453.’”
Kelso continued: “How did Israel respect church property in the fighting…? They shot up the Episcopal Cathedral [in Jerusalem], just as they had done in 1948. They smashed down the Episcopal school for boys…The Israelis wrecked and looted the YMCA…They wrecked the big Lutheran hospital…The Lutheran center for cripples also suffered…”
Nancy Nolan, wife of a physician at the American University Hospital in Beirut, who was in Jerusalem during and after the fighting, charged that “while the Israeli authorities proclaim to the world that all religions will be respected and protected, and post notices identifying the Holy Places, Israeli soldiers and youths are throwing stink bombs in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher.
“The Church of St. Anne, who crypt marks the birthplace of the Virgin Mary, has been severely damaged and the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem also was damaged. The wanton killing of the Warden of the Garden Tomb followed by the shooting into the tomb itself, in an attempt to kill the warden’s wife, was another instance that we knew first-hand which illustrated the utter disregard shown by the occupation forces toward the Holy Places and the religious sensibilities of the people in Jordan and in the rest of the world.”
“The desecration of churches…includes smoking in the churches, littering the churches, taking dogs inside and entering in inappropriate manner of dress. Behavior such as this cannot be construed other than as a direct insult to the whole Christian world.”
Desecration has occurred not only in times of war. As recently as 1995, an Israeli soldier, Daniel Koren, 22, entered St. Anthony Catholic Church in Jaffa and went on a shooting rampage, firing more than 100 bullets in the altar and the cross above it but causing no injuries. Koren said his Judaic convictions forced him to destroy all physical images of God, and admitted that he had staged a prior attack in Jerusalem’s Gethsemane Church.
Perhaps the worst outbreak of organized desecration of Christian institutions came on Sept. 10, 1963, when hundreds of ultra-orthodox Jews simultaneously attacked Christian missions in Jaffa, Haifa and Jerusalem. (One has to say “perhaps because reporting on this sensitive subject in the U.S. media has been so poor over the decades.) At any rate, the attacks were a concerted effort to intimidate Christians in Israel by a religious vigilante group called Hever Peelei Hamahane Hatorati, the Society of Activists of the Torah Camp. In an attack on the Church of Scotland school in Jaffa, Christian children were beaten and considerable damage was caused to the school by at least 200 rampaging Jews.
Other attacks occurred at two nearby church schools, the Greek Catholic missionary school of St. Joseph and a Christian Brothers school. In Jerusalem, attacks occurred at the St. Joseph convent and the Finnish Lutheran mission school. In Haifa, the American-European Beth El Messianic Mission Children’s Hostel and School was attacked. No serious damage occurred in any of the attacks except at the Scotland school. More than 100 Jews were convicted in the attacks, none of them receiving more than small fines and suspended sentences.
The first half of the 1980s, with Likud governments in control, was a particularly active period for Jewish bigots. On Oct. 8, 1982, the Baptist Church in Jerusalem was burned down. Kerosene had been sprinkled on the church’s wooden chapel, constructed in 1933. Although no one was ever charged in the arson, the Baptist Center’s bookstore had been vandalized a dozen times in previous years, and Jews were suspected. When the Baptists sought to rebuild the church, Jews demonstrated against the project and the Jewish district planning commission refused to grant a building permit. In 1985, the Israeli Supreme Court advised the Baptists to leave the all-Jewish area.
On Christmas Day in 1983, a hotel in Tiberias where Christians held meetings was set afire, the latest in a series of attacks on a small group of about 50 Christians. Two Jews were arrested in the arson incident. Other attacks included stones thrown through windows at the hotel while the group was meeting and break-ins at the homes of members of the group. The anti-missionary group Yad Le’Achim complained that Christian missionaries were offering money, clothes, jewelry and tennis shoes to listen to Christian lectures.
Just over a fortnight later, on Jan. 11, 1984, suspected Jewish extremists stacked hymnals on a piano in a Christian prayer room in Jerusalem and set them afire. Also in the same week angry Jews protesting Christian proselytizing caused Beth Shalom, a Christian evangelical group, to withdraw its plans to build a multimillion-dollar hotel in Jerusalem. Beth Shalom took its action after about 150 Jews showed up at a city council meeting with placards reading “You can’t buy me” and “I didn’t immigrate to live next door to missionaries.” A leader of the protest, Rabbi Moshe Berlinger, compared Christian missionaries to Trojan horses.
Jewish infringements on Christian rights became so bad by 1990 that on Dec. 20 the leaders of Christian churches in Jerusalem took the extraordinary decision to restrict Christmas celebrations to protest “the continuing sad state of affairs in our land,” including encroachment by Israel on traditional Christian institutions. Among concerns expressed by the patriarchs and heads of churches were attempts by Jewish settlers to move into the Old City and an “erosion of the traditional rights and centuries-old privileges of the churches,” including imposition by Israel of municipal and state taxes on the churches.
The statement added: “We express our deep concern over new problems confronting the local church. They interfere with the proper functioning of our religious institutions, and we call upon the civil authorities in the country to safeguard our historic rights and status honored by all governments.”
Anti-Christian prejudice helps account for the fact that the number of Christian Palestinians in all of former Palestine had dwindled to only 50,000 in 1995. They no longer were a major presence in either Jerusalem or Ramallah, and they were fast losing their majority status in Bethlehem.
When Israel was established in 1948, the Palestinian Christian community had numbered 200,000, compared to roughly 600,000 Jews in Palestine at the time. Now the Christians are not even one percent of the population of Israel/Palestine. Of today’s estimated total 400,000 Christian Palestinians, most now are living in their own diaspora, mainly in the Americas.
@ Technician
As a matter of interest have you checked out this web site?
http://www.positiveliberty.com/2006/09/romans-13.
If you haven’t, check it out and then have a look at the comments posted at the bottom of the site.
@Technician
Zoe has become as one of the gods. He is no longer a mortal. I notice to that you came to the same conclusions I came to on this blog. Words like deceitful, dishonest and most of all paranoid and fanatic. Zealous is not the word.
When I said he was a mental case, people thought that I was being harsh, but time longer than twine. Those who were slow to say it are seeing it for themselves. Like the higher the monkey climb.
However, this phenomenon can be seen in these modern day christians. Tell them anything they don’t wish to hear and they go ballistic. The first thing they come with is that we are haters and anti-christian, but I say to them that they are not christian; I can’t tell you what they are, but certainly, they know not what they do.
@David
“After all the talk what can we as a region do to ensure we play a role to help Haiti to rise up?”
All the talk David? I might be talking here but not in Haiti. Our teams are still on the ground struggling against the USA to get relief to Haitians. We are still in Haiti. Our people still going to DR ports to get their containers cleared and trucking them over to Haiti, can you believe it?
Before we can talk about Haiti rising up, the people must get on their feet first. That is what we are doing in Haiti. Talk is cheap.
@ Technician et al
You might also like to consider visiting the following site before taking Dic at his word.
http://www.positiveliberty.com/2006/09/romans-13
@David
How come I responded to a post and it ended up in January posts? As a matter of fact, the post I replied to was yours since January but was at the end of the comments. Thought it was a new comment. Only just realising that it was an old one.
@ D..
When the average person follows the media, the general consensus IS that ALL Palestinians are terrorists, that Israel is the victim ALL the time.
Most if not ALL the networks in the US operate under this deceitful bias.
Therefor it is hard to follow Zoe’s logic that the USA is punished for “messing” with Israel’s land by the loss of life and destruction in New Orleans by Katrina.
@ David,
Hey Dave……………”Something Happening”, my brother, and I can’t say I am happy with it. Since you put in the option “Reply” I notice that some comments are being jumbled. For instance I posted to day March 5 and my comment was placed further back in the thread between dates Jan 24 and March 6 and to day is only March 6! That’s why I said……………………Something Happening! (Check out RPB) :>)
@ David,
Hey Dave……………”Something Happening”, my brother, and I can’t say I am happy with it. Since you put in the option “Reply” I notice that some comments are being jumbled. For instance I posted to day March 5 and my comment was placed further back in the thread between dates Jan 24 and March 6 and to day is only March 5! That’s why I said……………………Something Happening! (Check out RPB) :>)
@ Hoodie…
I think I had linked that some time ago, no need to tell you the outcome….lol.
Maybe Zoe is not the One
The group enters the Matrix and takes Neo to meet the Oracle, the woman who has predicted the eventual emergence of the One. She tells Neo that he has “the gift” of manipulating the Matrix, but that he is waiting for something, possibly his next life. From her comments, Neo deduces that he is not the One.
HEART OF GOLD
CH:
Truth, scientific or otherwise, is not settled by vote or relative weight/numbers of opinion- holders, or by the credentials they have.
Truth is settled by substantiation on the merits of fact and logic.
When it comes to the climate issue — the latest tangential issue to crop up [guess why since there is, over a month and more, studied silence on the main topic, interrupted mostly by rhetorical sniping and distractions] — the problem is that it is now indisputably demonstrated that the science has been politicised, manipulated — sometimes cruelly and unkindly — and gamed by powerful people with ideological agendas. The emails and the program code comments tell the story in stark detail.
Read here, onlookers; don’t let the spin doctors do your thinking for you on this one.
What is safer to say is that climate is a 33-year moving average of the weather and is thus a bit of an artificial construct. It has always shifted, and we have always had extreme weather events, so robust development planning will factor these into account; e.g. planning on the so-called 100 year storm. (One with 1% odds per year. Problem is the odds that it will not happen in say a decade run like 0.99^20, and so on. That is, we have ~ 1/5 odds that in a typical building lifespan, it will see a 100 yr storm, so you better build it for that storm! And if your lifespan is 40 or so, we are looking at like ~ 1/3 chance of seeing that 100 yr killer storm.)
In addition, based largely on computer models and simulations tied to weather station and proxy data that are to significant extent being disputed, there is a claim that human activity is accelerating changes. Possible but not “proved” beyond reasonable doubt. What is beyond such doubt is that energy is closely connected to economic activity, and sharp drops in such use will have serious economic dislocating impacts [a precursor inter alia to war].
So, I go with the advice that we should reckon with what the weather [and tsunamis and earthquakes, etc] can do based on what they have done. We should plan robustly, but we should take no actions on climate modelling projections that would not make sense in any case.
that way we act robustly but in a measured fashion, and take out he ideological hysteria that is a well known precursor to political manipulation.
And, please, don’t doubt me on that “hysteria” part.
I have seen, up close and personal, the whipping up of our region’s young people into wild-eyed, eye-darting, panting hysteria and panic on climate matters.
Finally, historically, the major solutions to big challenges have come from tech and sci breakthroughs. So we need to invest in same. Some of which — e.g. thin film nanoparticle ink based PV flexible sheets that are evidently cheaper than coal fired power plants — are beginning to happen.
And, I like a good part of Jakubowski’s Open Source Ecology ideas; even though I probably do not buy into the ideology. think: 1,000 people and 40 – 50 core technolotgies within reasonable reach could create small scale light footprint sustainable communities.
And of course my favourite Vegetable Steel — bamboo — for sustainable construction, timber and furniture, is looking good too.
D
Guess it doesn’t matter if “Christians” are offended by this event – we obviously don’t count as “anyone” anymore.
Are you a Christian Anon?
Are you sure you are a Christian according to the scriptures?
@Dic
“Truth is settled by substantiation on the merits of fact and logic.”
Now! Now! Now! Is this the truth you are talking about? “Truth” is settled? On the merits of “fact and logic”? You must do better than that. By your definition, truth is full of politics. What you expect if you going on merit? Sometimes you have the facts but not the truth. In many instances the facts can paint a different picture to the truth. Sometimes innocent people get convicted based on circumstantial evidence. Is that truth? Man yearn for the truth but up to now, truth still eludes man. So who are you?
Truth is as relative as anything else under the sun that can be relative. Your obsession with professing to know truth is, in itself, untruthful and dishonest.
“Every person possesses inner truth. It is primal memory of what Cosmic Harmony feels like, that we possess before we develop any memories of images and words.”
Hexagram 61 Inner Truth -I Ching
“And, bats navigate in the dark by sound (i.e. sonar). As do whales etc.”
Have you sat to think through what is light and what is sight?the light allows you to see and navigate this earth as the bats do with a lower wave length.
If I take your argument that light is something, then light is an intrusion but moreso, a medium by which you could navigate. So the road is empty until a vehicle comes along. The road is nothing.
@ROK et al
We were experimenting with a feature. It is turned off now.
It would be interesting to read the views of Dictionary and Dr. GP on Zoe’s recent prognostication on the Jews.
@ Technician
It is a good thing we are no longer in “Spanish Inquisition” times with men like the “BU trinity” having authority! Otherwise, they would have a lot of folk burnt at the stake ot hung,drawn and quartered just for having slightly different opinions!
The three of them strike me as being very pompous and on ego trips, GP less so than the other two! But hey, it takes all types to make up the world, huh? It sure would be very dull if we were all thinking alike. Agree? The more they carry on the more I am glad for my beliefs and teachings.
@ David,
“It would be interesting to read the views of Dictionary and Dr. GP on Zoe’s recent prognostication on the Jews.”
**************************************************************************************************
So what do you expect to hear from them, Dave? But I like your observation………….in other words give a man enough rope …………we all know what eventually happens!
@ Techie,
Look at the difference with ROKie even though he does not see “eye to eye” with what other posters say he does not lambaste them and denigrate them like the “trinity”. Follow me? I understand where a man like ROK stands and I do not have a problem with that. I can respect his views although I might not necessarily totally agree with all that he might say from time to time. Capiche?