Submitted by Crusoe (as a comment on the Haiti We Are Sorry blog
You list some good ideas for the structural retransformation of Haiti [Responding to Commenter Dictionary on the Haiti We Are Sorry blog]. Each in of themselves they do not depend on improved education but do depend on improved technical training (farming etc). However, for all, the long-term success of those initiatives individually and collectively leading to a successful Haiti will certainly also depend on improved education, if as we have been informed, the literacy level is so low.
This has two implications.
Firstly, immediately after initial search, rescue, medical, temporary (short and medium term) and security issues have been addressed as priority, the early reformation must include an immediate education programme, for adult and youth, such that the transformation of Haiti can begin with the active participation of her people, not as ‘serfs’ but as active individuals and communities with an understanding of the reasoning behind the methods and the aim of the methods.
I must add, that ‘transformation’ in this context is not meant to refer to bringing Haiti to the same philosophical outlook as anyone other specific group. In this context it is meant to refer to bringing Haiti to a level of self-capability and self-determination. Now, to expect say a three or four year ‘crash course’ in education and technical skills may seem either impossible or unrealistic, but unfortunately, if this is not done as one of the foundations of the rebuilding (in the context of not only structural, but as a nation of people), than all else may eventually prove futile.
This is obviously along the lines of the old phrase of teaching a man to fish instead of giving him the fish. Merely putting up structures, farms etc may certainly alleviate some misery, but while in the short term foreign contractors etc may gain much from the aid given for this purpose, the long-term goal should be to have Haitians and not only elite, but the everyday Haitian, benefit from money flows and thus create an independent people and a vibrant economy.
It is my view therefore Caricom leaders, should address the education of Haiti, as a priority, as much a priority as any other redevelopment effort.
To reinforce a point, the initial effort must not only be to set up an improved schooling system, but implement as an interim measure, an ’emergency education programme’, with the help of international authorities and the Haitian authorities. If one wants a long-term Haiti, this is essential.
We must give thanks yet again, that Errol Barrow saw the necessity of education as a developmental tool. And, we must forever resist ANY attempts to take free education from Barbadians. Indeed, those of us who wish for an improved world, must seek the furtherance of a sound even if basic education, for all peoples, as a necessity for development.
1,421 responses to “The Reconstruction And Transformation Of Haiti: A Global-Moral Imperative”
@ ac, Joseph’s dream as told to his father and his brothers, “Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars bowed down to me” (Gen. 37: 9), has absolutely no astrological implications whatsoever, the sun, moon and eleven stars where seen in his dream, obviously given him by God, were evidently *symbolical*, the meaning was easily discernable, as was his first dream, “There we were, binding sheaves in the field. Then behold, my sheaf arose and also stood upright, and indded your sheaves stood all around and bowed down to my sheaf.” (Gen. 37: 7).
Again, Joseph’s sheaf in relation to his brothers sheaves, were symbolic, as was the sun, moon and stars in the other dreams, not in any way, astrological, you must not read into a text, what it does not warrant!
Just to put the record straight, re my contributions on this thread, and Haiti.
First, I am not an engineer, nor a physicist, like Dictionary, whose knowledge, training and expertise in these and other fields were brought together competently, as given here on BU, but mocked and scoffed at, because he also is a Christian, re the reconstruction of Haiti.
My perspective on Haiti, out of deep concern for these terribly ravaged people, was to focus on what contributed ‘spiritually’ to their demise, both historically, and present day, and this I did, from a Biblical premise, citing the very present day reality that Vodoo is still very much a national identity and way of life for the majority of Haitians, which cannot be simply dismissed as a non sequitur.
An analogy would be like this; a man is an alcoholic, he is constantly getting into accidents, caused by his excessive bouts of drinking. He crashes his car, and is terribly mangled in this wreck, almost dies. Some follks are concerned for his restoration in hospital from the accident, not really dealing with the CAUSE of this accident, his DRINKING; while a few others, are deeply concerned about the CAUSE of this accident, alcoholism, and attempt to address this matter firmly and sternly with the victim, so as to get him to change his behaviour.
But, the vehement attacks against any Christian, as seen here on BU, is entirely true to form, no substance whatsoever, all slanderous, vile, red-herring based, strawmanized FOLLY and foolishness, and we know where and from whom this vicious diatribe is engendered!
Zoe , you are a joke !!
Even if, you were concerned about their spiritual plight, where on this blog did you show any sense of respect for then as HUMAN BEINGS CREATED BY GOD?
You start out by blaming their practice of Voodoo for their demise.
Where on this blog did you ever show genuine concern for their suffering as people?
What idea did you put forward (other than repentance) that could immediately help alleviate their suffering?
One does not have to be an engineer, or a physicist BUT I would have thought that being a Christian, Compassion for those less fortunate would have been MANDATORY. I was obviously wrong!!
Now after all this time and questions , this is the best lame ass reason that you could come up with?
Give us a break Zoe!!
People like you and Dictionary think you are sitting on thrones but in fact you all are merely scotching on chairs.
@ Sherman,
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but FOOLS (like you Sherman) despise wisdom and instruction.”
“Let us swallow them alive like Sheol, And whole like those (Sherman et al) who go down to the Pit.” (Prov. 1:7, 12) emphasis added.
“Wisdom is the principle thing; Therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting, get understanding.” (Prov. 4: 7).
Sherman, you have neither!
“Understanding is a wellspring of life to him who has it. But the correction of FOOLS is folly.” (Prov. 16: 22)
Sherman, you are a fool, the foregoing is for the benefit of those who desire to understand:
Wisdom versus Folly.
BTW, I am not a Pastor.
Repent!
“In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, and saying REPENT, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matt. 3: 1,2).
Repent. (metanoeo) from ‘meta’ (after) and ‘noeo’ (to think). Repentance is a decision that results in a change of mind, which in turn leads to a change of purpose and action.
“Then Peter said to them, REPENT….” (Acts 2:38a).
“Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, BUT now commandeth ALL men everywhetre to REPENT, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man (Jesus christ) whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to ALL by raising Him from the dead.” (Acts 17: 30,31) emphasis added.
Repentance was the first proclamation that came forth from John the Baptist, as he ushered in The Lord Jesus Christ.
Peter’s first sermon on the Day of Pentecost, was REPENT, Almighty God calls ALL men to REPENT, without genuine repentance to God, and faith in Jesus Christ, there can be NO true, lasting restoration for any one, individual, family, village, parish, or nation.
I did what I had to do on this thread re Haiti, to those who despise it, scoff at it and redicule it, tuff for you.
So it be!
@ Sherman, Your salacious, lewd, literary, mental ejaculate, is entirely consistent coming from the Pit of darkness where your brain resides.
Sherman, you are the epitome, the very quintessence, summation, of the following Proverb:
“Though you grind a FOOL in a mortar with a pestle along with crushed grain, Yet his FOOLISHNESS will NOT depart from him.” (Prov. 27: 22).
If, your mental ejaculate gives you some ease from which your darkened intellect is held captive, I’m glad for you, the Lake of Fire awaits your ilk!
Adam Sherman
You say that Pastor Zoe and rabbi Dictionary are fools, but you have not articulated any facts or reasonable arguments to support your claims. I suppose if one believes the Bible and can articulate their understanding of the Bible, they ought to be called fools. Am I correct?
You call Zoe a dunce, but what is a dunce Sir?. Define dunce. Certainly a dunce can not explain the things that Pastor Zoe or Rabbi Dictionary have presented on this blog.
It is nice that you were in Port au Prince within 24 hours of the initial quake. Since you were there after the quake you can not accurately pontificate as you have that NOTHING contributed “spiritually” to their demise. Absolutely NOTHING, because you were not there to see..
On the other hand it is well known that voodoo is part of the lifestyle in Haiti and it is also known that one of the main reasons for the demise of all the great civilizations of the past has been idolatry of some kind. Did you know that Sir? Now I didnt say that that was the cause. But I might well have been. Who knows?
You say that “For the most part, the dead died because their frail human bodies were crushed by tons of collapsed masonry. Many other people died because their bodies survived the initial collapse but their frail human frames could not withstand a week of thirst and pain and blood-loss and isolation in darkness.”
So then my understanding is that you described the physical cause of their death- not the spiritual. I was taught long ago that the soul that sinneth it shall die. In other words all death has a spiritual cause—sin! So to think that there was a “spiritual contribution” to their deaths is both logical and reasonable thought processes by any or all that believe what the Bible teaches.
Whereas you and others have the right to refuse to heed the teachings of the Bible, should not folk like Pastor Zoe and rabbi Dictionary also have the right to believe the Bible and express their beliefs too.
What makes someone a disgrace, or a moral disgrace? Is it not acts of immorality? Please kindly define and elaborate on the meaning of moral imagination, and explain how it sickens the heart.
What I can see by following the writings of these two men whom you and many on this blog repeatedly castigate is that they are well read in the matters about which they speak
Most of the rest of you cause me to wonder if we Bajans are as literate as I have heard us boast during the 30 years or so I have been down here on planet earth.
You may now go ahead and curse me to your hearts content, as that is all that most of you who come on this blog can do. You generally have very very litle to offer
@susan
Why would anybody want to curse you? It seems that you are trying to promote yourself as someone to curse??? What you may not know is that the most prolific “curser” is Zoe. So what you defending? He/she started it and continues in that vein, even though he has been cautioned and corrected several times by his own colleague, who seems just as mad but a little more decent. Is it that you think that it is alright for a Christian to curse others but not to be cursed?
In his/her last outburst here is what he/she said, “Sherman, Your salacious, lewd, literary, mental ejaculate, is entirely consistent coming from the Pit of darkness where your brain resides.” For a Christian, the thoughts are despicable. Only people of very little faith would stoop to that level. So if you are like him/her or you emulate him/her to abuse people the same way, then look out, the “Pit-bulls of darkness” will have a field day.
I therefore hope that you are nothing like him/her and that you have recently picked up on this thread and commented in your innocence.
@susan
“I was taught long ago that the soul that sinneth it shall die. In other words all death has a spiritual cause—sin! So to think that there was a “spiritual contribution” to their deaths is both logical and reasonable thought processes by any or all that believe what the Bible teaches.”
I see you are just as mad. We all die, whether in an earthquake or not. Death is simply a matter of time. According to you we are all sinners, because we die. So what is the difference? To cast the blame of someone’s plight on their beliefs is just not right. So what about the UN Staff that died there? What about the women who were fighting for the rights of females who all perished while attending a meeting? What about all those students who were in class when death came suddenly or maybe painfully as stated above?
We contribute to our deaths, not spiritually, but by the things we do everyday, what we eat everyday, how we interact with others, even down to where we are everyday, etc. It is all physical, space and time.
If you believe that souls will die, you are entitled to your belief, just as everybody else is entitled to theirs. Do you understand what it means to “believe”? Again for the record, it means you have no proof and you seek no proof. It means you have nothing on anybody else and while you believe that death is to be avoided, there are many cultures who see that kind of dying as an honour.
Do you have as much faith as a millionth part of a mustard seed? In that case, you need to distance yourself from Zoe and Dic, who can only lead you astray.
Susan,
Thank you. I deeply appreciate your willingness to expose yourself to the nastiness that is all too commonly evident here, to provide some balance.
In fact, in earlier threads, there was extensive discussion on how the general moral malaise among the elite classes especially in Haiti contributed to the disaster.
Specifically, let us note that a great many of the collapsed buildings were not just ordinary cheap shacks, but substantial commercial and official buildings that credibly cost US$ 100’s of thousands, to millions. Thus, the engineering, building contractor and financial as well as administrator classes are directly implicated. (Basic ignorance like setting up backyard concrete block factories and trying to cure the moulded blocks by “drying” them in the sun — in ignorance of concrete chemistry [Hint: why should you wet down curing concrete? (A question I asked of my neighbour/ second daddy [to this day: God bless you uncle HCB and Auntie P], a graduate of Kingston Tech High School, in the mid 60’s; my dad, a graduate of a Teacher’s College, had been trained in basic concrete construction as a matter of routine too . . . ] — are more matters for compassion than for rebuke.)
(Unfortunately, this kind of issue is by no means unique to Haiti, and an expert investigator projects [on the graph of the distribution of casualties and magnitude] that up to 1 mn will die in a future quake that hits a poorly built city, 100+ years after we know how to build large earthquake resistant — as opposed to “proof” — buildings. Haiti is 1/4 way there at one go. In such threads, there was extensive presentation of alternatives, starting with Auroville of India, the Auram Compressed [stabilised] earth block construction system, and the modernised Bamboo Bahareque construction system, with a good look at “vegetable steel”: Guadua angustifolia — 20x the per acre productivity of pine forest, resulting processed product harder than oak, stalks growing up to 100 ft, 10 in wide in 5 – 7 y; i.e. gateway to renewable timber. Also, for rapid, strong rebuild of housing, I have strongly suggested taking a serious look at Moladi. If you will follow up the links below the timeline in my PDF form proposal, you will find links to all of this.)
On Haiti’s wider problems, Zoe is fundamentally on the right track (though of course he and I hardly agree monolithically on details, we are too much independent individuals for that!): as cultures — and especially their leadership classes — turn their backs on what hey know or should know about God, they make substitutes for the real God [starting with those ever popular drugs: money, power and sensual pleasure], and it leads them to lose control over a firm grasp of reality, a solid sense of integrity, and commitment to doing the right. As a direct consequence, it is no surprise to learn that globally, the construction industry is rated the most corrupt in the world. (BTW: why isn’t there a building nameplate law, backed up by enforcement mechanisms so that the designer, contractor, and inspector of a building are publicly on the line for their work, all duly keyed to the folio number for the building drawings, land registry and Planning permissions file??)
In the specific case of Haiti, there was plainly an uneasy alliance between Christians, animists [who believe in a High God but find themselves alienated form Him so they “have” to deal with the earth bound and sky bound spirits] and outright occult practitioners among those who led the initial uprisings.
Ever since, the factions have vied for the Haitian soul. Into that matrix, the gospel comes, with its transforming message: the Most High God the Lord and Creator of the heavens and the earth is our loving Heavenly Father, and has sent us a Saviour, his only begotten Son, our risen Lord, Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ. (Warranting case, here. Notice how, after many weeks,t eh ever so strident objectors tot he Christian gospel, faith and adherents, are consistently unable to address this cogently on the merits.)
As a result, there has in recent decades been a strong trend to the Christian faith, especially in forms that emphasise the centrality of the scriptures and breaking free of animistic compromises with lesser spirits and occultic involvement. (As can be seen above in this thread, too many of those here at BU who object tot he Christian faith are all too willing to embrace modernised paganism and occultic involvements, starting with the popular fascination with divination based on positions of heavenly bodies in our local sky. Down that road lies bondage to demons, and just last weekend I was sitting up front and central in a case of deliverance from occultic involvement [dem occultic bush baths deadly, and de sorcerous “oils” just as bad; don’t get me started on that wretched ouija board “game” or gazing into peep stones or crystal balls or using hymn or prayer books etc to cast fortunes, etc etc . . . ] and resulting demonic bondage that cropped up in a prayer line in a church service. Let’s just say that the name of Jesus has not lost the power that was so manifest in Ac 16 and 19!)
Let us reach out and help or brothers and sisters in Haiti, and indeed, we should not block those who see deeper dimensions to the problem, just because we don’t feel comfortable with what they have to say; especially given the underlying warrant for the gospel. (Remember, my proposal is about Caricom-sponsored schools; I recognise that such schools would probably not be particularly religious [but need to teach virtue . . . I think that works like the often celebrated Harriet’s Daughter or Harry Potter or the Golden Compass etc (from personal observation) do NOT teach sound virtue; contrast C S Lewis’ Narnia series], though there may be basic RE mandates in Haiti — have to ask my Haitian friends on that. As long as students and staff sponsors may freely associate in Bible clubs as extra curricular activities and as long as the Scouts and Guides are not perverted from their foundation in Godliness, I have no problems at all with that.)
Thanks again.
G’day
D
@susan
“On the other hand it is well known that voodoo is part of the lifestyle in Haiti and it is also known that one of the main reasons for the demise of all the great civilizations of the past has been idolatry of some kind. Did you know that Sir? Now I didnt say that that was the cause. But I might well have been. Who knows?”
Did you know that there is a great civilisation called Israel that can’t yet get off the ground after 2000 years? You or nobody on this earth have no proof of civilisations falling because of idolatry. What am I hearing at all? You may want to attribute it to that, but let me say that the greatest Idolaters are Christians. You worship an image of Christ and Mary. When I say Christ and Mary, images come to mind right? That is the proof of your idolatry. So who are you to be calling somebody an idolater?
I notice your little wicked disclaimer at the end of that paragraph, “Oh, I did not say that…”, after saying it and believing it too, because that is the context of your contribution but you don’t want people to say that you say so, do you? By your own subconscious admission, you know that these are evil thoughts, don’t you?
Hypocrisy in the highest.
PS: It seems I have to note in defense of Susan. ROK, as an educated Caribbean person, knows or should know that the basic Biblical concept of death is alienation or separation. The body without the spirit is physically dead, the soul alienated from God through unreconciled sin is spiritually dead — the most important and serious form of death, especially if it becomes eternal. (ROK needs to learn to understand and fairly analyse worldviews on their own terms, whether or not he agrees with them. Projecting perceptions and concepts from an alien view onto the Biblically anchored faith, will erect a strawman distortion, leading straight to the ill founded perception of absurdity and the temptation to project dismissive contempt. This is of course by way of strong contrast with how, on its own terms, evolutionary materialism — ever since c 400 BC — has been self referentially incoherent on accounting for the credibility of the mind to think logically and perceive accurately, and it has been utterly amoral for just as long, as there is an unbridgeable is-ought gap on such systems that do not have a grounding Is who is also the root of Ought: The Most High, holy, knowing, loving Creator God and Father. Nietzsche is only the most consistent and open of modern atheists: he let the cat out of the bag a hundred years ago.)
@Susan
“Whereas you and others have the right to refuse to heed the teachings of the Bible, should not folk like Pastor Zoe and rabbi Dictionary also have the right to believe the Bible and express their beliefs too.”
Is that not what they do ad nauseam? Who has prevented them? They have simply been challenged and, I might add, by some very open-minded Christian people… but you don’t like it, right? Well as much as they have the right to spout what they “believe”, so do others, and if the two beliefs do not mesh, they have a right to challenge each other too, not so? Then what is your complaint?
You really don’t have a complaint, do you? You just can’t stand the challenge, so you would like to shut up others. You trying to perpetrate just what you are complaining about, right?
@Susan
“You may now go ahead and curse me to your hearts content, as that is all that most of you who come on this blog can do. You generally have very very litle to offer…”
I suppose yours was a “Sterling” contribution.
PPS: Civilisations failing because of idolatry: try this (and also think of the Nazi era in Germany, which was an uneasy blend of neo-pagan, occultic, secularist and racialist, nationalist socialist elements: some were actually trying to bring back open wortrship of the old Germanic pantheon), resemblance to current circumstances is NOT coincidental. Whether the images made to look like men birds beasts reptiles etc are in temples or on tomb walls and are called gods, or are in museums and textbooks and are called long scientific names makes but little difference to the implications of resentfully turning our backs on God. As to Israel’s current, ongoing and prophesied restoration [cf. esp Ezek 36] — which has already made the most progressive country in the ME out of formerly devastated wasteland — after two exiles due to rebellion against the Word from God [e.g. cf that prophetic warning on the eve of the war with Rome AD 66 on], ROK is trying to twist the record. And BTW, note the implications of the miraculous preservation of the people even in exile.
@Dic
“ROK needs to learn to understand and fairly analyse worldviews on their own terms, whether or not he agrees with them…”
So what are you saying? If I disagree with them I should shut up? Can I not understand and disagree? Why should I analyse worldviews on their own terms? I must analyse them within the understanding of my own worldview, noting that everybody has a worldview. You into shifting goal posts so you want me to see it your way and I am not indulging you in that. You come with some “new-fangled” way of interpretation trying to manufacture proof, but that can’t happen, except to a person in a seriously acute psychotic state of mind.
PPPS: For those needing a balancing view adn ntoes on the history of modern Israel, I recommend here and here.
P4S: ROK et al know full well that hey have resorted to the most utterly uncivil conduct to poison and polarise the atmosphere, up to and including slanders and calls to arson against churches. If you doubt me just scan up above and see how this thread was pulled away form its proper focus repeatedly, how serious contributions were distracted from [because they came from the “wrong” sources: Christians, who in the Alinskyite mentality are tro be demonised], and how slander soaked strawmen were ignited through personal attacks, clouding, choking and polarsing the atmosphere. So much so that he state of this thread is a disgrace and telling commentary on the true state of the minds and hearts of too many in our region today who sneer at and dismiss the gospel and the scriptures in which they may be found. Indeed, some would go so far as to call for burning down churches as an act of black racial solidarity. {Note how for weeks and weeks now, that has not led to any compunctions and turning back from a path of hostility verging into hate-filled contempt.]
@Dic
“Civilisations failing because of idolatry: try this…”
Don’t make me laugh. Try what? Foolishness? Your belief? Whose decree? Where is the proof? Show me a single civilisation which flourished in the BCE that is flourishing now? What about those that are gone but were not into idolatry? What will save the souls of Christians for their imagery of Christ and Mary and worshiping them too? Don’t forget, you can’t get to the father except through him, right? Do you have an image of him in your mind? Don’t you see images of him all over? What about the crucifix? A woman fought to wear it over her uniform.
All this is the proof of idolatry and symbolism. So when will Christianity fall because of idolatry?
OOPS: Israel: here and here.
F/N: basic primer on worldviews analysis, and a note on building a worldview in light of warranted credible truths. (These have been linked any number of times in recent weeks and months, but as those following the exchanges that have been going on, ROK has openly confessed that he has no time to read that which cuts across his 30 years deep locked in preconceptions. indeed, he has just now failed to read the analysis in Rom 1 of the failure of Classical Roman society as its elites especially turned their backs on God and served idols. he needs to read in the history of Rome and he rise of the empire, to see the details Paul was responding to e.g. cf. on the lives of the Caesars and their families, starting with Julius and Octavian [note on his problems with trying to re-inject virtue, including with his own wanton daughter] culminating in the astonishing excesses of Nero 110 years later. As well, Augustine’s City of God will be an extremely informative discussion 350 years on, by a man who grew up in the culture at the time when the debate was hottest. A man who rebelled against his Christian mother, and embraced all sorts of systems, ending up fathering an illegitimate child. He worked his way through the systems one by one and then found himself listening to Ambrose of Milan, to get rhetorical pointers. The rest is history.)
BU regret we have closed this blog for the obvious reasons. The BU family knows that the BU household has a healthy interest in religions but the level of conversation and the pressure on BU to monitor because some feel they are being slandered etc has given us no choice. We do it with deep sadness. All we can do is ask everyone to operate with a sense of reasonableness, if that fails then we will have to look at the next steps?
We should add that over the last 2 days we have been kept busy by a poster whose has been using multiple names and has been abusive at the same time. We will continue to make changes as this person engages in their stress test exercises. The bottomline for BU given the number of comments etc posted daily is that it requires frequent monitoring, there is no silver bullet to solve all of the problem. Bear with us and we shall overcome as we have done in the past.