Albert Pike, one of the greatest figures in the history of Masonry – Johnny Davis, 32°
“A Personal Christian View Regarding Freemasonry”
Now, let us see what Pike has to say about Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us to “test (or try) the spirits, to see if they are (of) from God”. [1 John 4:1] The reason for this is that many FALSE prophets had come into the world!
“The Light could not unite with darkness. It but put on the appearance of a human body, and took the name of Christ in the Messiah, only to accommodate itself to the language of the Jews… He suffered in appearance only… the person of Jesus having disappeared…” (This diabolical lie has even been perpetrated by an Iranian Muslim filmmaker on the making of a film about the death of Jesus) [Morals and Dogma, p. 567; (emphasis and insert added)]
This quote, from Pike directly, completely, and perfectly fulfils the Biblical definition of ”Antichrist”, because Pike just separated the human body of Jesus from His Divine Nature. Freemasonry also teaches the following about Jesus Christ:
(1) “Jesus received his wisdom from Gnosis” [p. 563, 26th Degree]. Gnosticism was one of the heresies Paul and the Apostles battled.
(2) Jesus is the same as other great spiritual lights in history, like Plato [p. 539, 26th Degree].
(3) Jesus is not unique at all, despite acknowledging that Jesus claimed to be unique (The Son of God). Masonry calls Jesus Christ a liar! Can Masons still in good conscience call themselves Christian?
The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the Creator of all things, that by Him and His Wisdom, everything was created [John 1:1]. Once again, Freemasonry is discovered to be teaching pagan gobbledygook rather than Biblical Truth.
“Who is such a liar as he who denies that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah? He is the antichrist, the antagonist of Christ, who habitually denies and refuses to acknowledge the Father and the Son. No one who habitually denies and disowns the Son even has the Father.” [1 John 2:22-23, Amplified Bible]. Masonry makes such a big deal of worshipping God, but then turns right around to disown His Son, Jesus Christ. What a colossal deception!
But is this all that Freemasonry teaches and believes about Jesus Christ? Let us examine the facts. Albert Pike states the following doctrine concerning Jesus Christ in [Chapter 26, or the 26th Degree, “Prince of Mercy, or Scottish Trinitarian”]. On page 562-3, we see that the thought of a Supreme Being unknown to the Human race [God] produced the Universe which “produced the Spirit, the Mother of the Living, and Wisdom of God. Together with this Primitive Existence, Matter existed also … eternal …”
It is said that “Buthos and His Thought, uniting with Wisdom, made her fruitful by the Divine Light, and she produced a perfect and an imperfect being, Christos, and a Second and inferior Wisdom, Sophia-Achamoth, who falling into chaos remained entangled there, became enfeebled, and lost all knowledge of the Superior Wisdom that gave her birth”.
“They restored Jesus to life and gave Him an ethereal body, in which He remained eighteen months on earth, and receiving from Wisdom the perfect knowledge [… Gnosis], communicated it to a small number of His apostles, and then arose to the intermediate region inhabited by Ialdaboath, where, unknown to him, He sits at his right hand, taking from him the Souls of Light purified by Christos. When nothing of the spiritual world shall remain subject to Ialdaboath, the redemption will be accomplished, and the end of the world, the completion of the return of Light into the Plenitude, will occur.”
Masonic symbols, language and literature are mere “Double-Speak”, their reversal of meanings: Creator God – defined as “Demons and as Prince of Darkness”. Satan and the Serpent defined as “Angel of Light “, a term Christians ascribe to either God or Pre-Incarnate Jesus Christ.
If one will keep these facts in mind as you read the writings of Freemasonry, you will be a lot closer to the truth of what they really teach. Much of their writings seem to read like they are speaking of the God of the Bible, and Jesus Christ, but if you understand they have reversed the meanings of the key words and terms – it is then clear and you will understand whom it is they really serve and worship.
Make no mistake about it, and do not be deceived: when Freemasonry refers to God, they are really worshipping the “Serpent”, and when they speak of goodness and light, they are speaking of the teachings of Lucifer, the “Light-Bearer”, which they repeatedly refer to by that name. In fact, all Masons are charged with becoming “Light-Bearers”, always moving toward the “Light”.
But, now, for the first time, hopefully, you will now understand that, with their reversal of meanings, Freemasons really worship Lucifer. Stay with us on this journey of learning the story behind the “symbols”, for it can be proven absolutely as we go on our quest while more and more weight and credence will be given to this ancient, pagan mystery repackaged for a modern audience designed for one purpose only – to deceive!
Dan Brown new novel –“The Lost Symbol” again portray on the back of the DaVinci Code, Angel & Demons – just how pervasive and subliminal is the workings of the Occult, the Illuminati and the shadowy world of the worshippers of Satan and the world system that is coming upon us – but men rather bury their heads in the sand in the hope that these machinations will go away.
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90 responses to “Why A Temple On The Hill Of St. George: “Masons” – Friends Or Foes? – Part II”
J
If I need urgent attention I will call on Dr. Georgie Porgie. I am sure that he can handle things.
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Georgie Porgie
@ Not Saved
GP, was the author of Revelation, John the Apostle, son of Zebedee?
Yes and I know exactly where you are coming from. Don’t jump the gun smarty!
Just Read 1, 1 3 John and the Gospel and you will see the point I was making. Also read Acts the General epistles and the Pauline epistles.
We will talk about Revelation separately. I am not half as stupid as you think; and as you know well already, I do know my onions.
Good to see you again though. Where have you been?
@ AH
The very helpful footnotes in the very popular Scofield Bible were written by CH Schofield who was a converted alcoholic lawyer, who greatly influenced Chaffer the first President of Dallas Theological Seminary as far as I understand.
I think – but I am not sure- that Scofield was Plymouth Brethren, and as such influenced greatly by JN Darby, who first enunciated the dispensational interpretation of the Bible. This was popularized by the Scofield Bible and DTS..
Eshatology is the study of the doctrine of the eschaton or the end times, just as Pneumatology is the study of the doctrine of the Holy Spirit or Harmatology the study of the doctrine of sin.
The rapture, the seven year tribulation and Millennial reign of Christ are events that are clearly articulated in the Bible. But Eschatology is the systematic study of all the passages in the Bible that relate to this topic. These events are only a part of eschatology or the doctrine of the second coming of Christ.
The rapture is primarily a NT doctrine and affects the Church only. The seven year tribulation is mentioned in the OT many times where it is called also the “day of the Lord”, “the day”, “that day”, “the time of Jacob’s trouble” inter alia
Similarly all the scriptures about the Son , or Angels or The church or the Doctrine of salvation etc can be put in juxtaposition. Such studies are called SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY and is taught in the Bible Schools, Colleges and Seminaries.
Popular texts in SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY, include a simple one by Evans, one by Thiessen, and there is Chaffers text. There are of course others.
A text of Systematic Theology allows you to note in one chapter what the Bible says about any of the major or so called fundamental doctrines of the faith, you want to study.
Eg For Ecclesiology, we will find ………….What is the origin of the church, when did the church begin. What is a local church. What are the officers of the church. What are the ordinances of the church. .Who is the Head of the Church. Will the church go through the tribulation etc.
Hope this helps
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Pat
Ebenezer // September 24, 2009 at 7:17 AM
Pat // September 23, 2009 at 11:01 PM
@Hiram & Tin Man;
“My grandfather told me that his mason fraternity (Solomon’s Temple) was around before Jesus and that the rites they followed were passed down from the ancients.”
Well, if your grandfather said it is so, I’m sure it must be. Did he also tell you that the moon is made out of green cheese?
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No Ebenezer. He told me it was made out of YELLOW cheese!
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Straight talk
Is Gordon Brown’s strange handshake a masonic greeting, or is it that he just cocks up everything he touches?
Why does the writings of Paul carry more importance than the writings of Mark?
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Zoe
@ Hiram, I honestly did not know that Jim Shaw had so terribly lied about a number of claims made on the cover of ‘The Deadly Deception’ re himself, until yesterday, when you brought it to my attention!
I want to state unequivocally, without any reservation whatsoever, that I detest, abhor, loathe, what Shaw did in this regard, to embellish the fact that he was a Freemason, confirmed by Masonic authorities in the States, who also exposed the lies on the other hand, that he was not a 33rd Degree, and three other false claims about himself. Simply detestable!
However, I also want to say, without fear of contradiction, that what I quoted from his book, re Masonic Symbolism, is factually correct, and is not ‘invalidated’ because of his lies about himself as a Freemason!
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Georgie Porgie
Re Why does the writings of Paul carry more importance than the writings of Mark?
Theologically the writings of Paul DO NOT carry more importance than the writings of Mark, since according to both of the proof texts for the plenary verbal inspiration of the Bible, ALL Scriptures is God breathed c.f 2 Timothy 3:16 2 Peter 1:20-21.
Whereas the Pauline epistles have been widely heralded by the Church in the Church Age or Age of Grace for which they were particularly written in many respects, Paul’s writings are not really more important than Mark’s short gospel.
Both the Gospel of Mark and the Pauline epistles have their place in the NT canon.
Mark’s Gospel was written to the Romans in particular, and promotes the Lord Jesus Christ as the Servant who came to give his life a ransom as the key verse states (Mk 10:45). It is a book of action whose key word is STRAIGHTAWAY OR IMMEDIATELY! The Romans were interested mainly in whether a man could do a job, so Mark’s gospel records few sermons or discourses of Jesus, and give few extraneous details of events except to explain certain Jewish customs to his Roman readers (see John’s gospel for contrast).
For those readers interested in a good work on the particular nuances of the different gospels in great detail, I recommend Arthur Pink’s WHY FOUR GOSPELS, which can be found in Pink’s Archives online.
Paul was given special revelation about the “mystery” of the rapture, and the “mystery” of the church, and most of the doctrine of the church (Ecclesiology) was given by Paul. Consequently, it is not surprising that in the Church Age, that much attention is paid to the Pauline epistles. Paul harps also on such subsections of the doctrine of salvation, by explaining concepts such as reconciliation, adoption, positional sanctification or justification, practical sanctification and perfect sanctification and several such issues.
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Adrian Hinds
What is plenary verbal inspiration of the Bible?????
ALL Scriptures is God breathed?
Is this really true?
What does c.f 2 Timothy 3:16 2 Peter 1:20-21. actually say?
Would you interpret the first chapter in Luke to be Gods breath? Who is Luke refering to? Himself or God?
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Zoe
@Hiram, Sept 23, @12:15 PM.
“I will not speak specifics about our degrees, ( Iwonder why not?) If you are that curious, join and find out, (I DID, years ago, I am a former Freemason, was an extremely zealous one at that!) I will state categorically, that the portion of the third degree to which you refer (though your description is inaccurate) is not about Jesus Christ and the resurrection at all. If you were a Mason ( I WAS!) you would know exactly the context and what it means.” (I DO, in your blinded ignorance, you DON’T!).
I NEVER said it was about Jesus Christ, man, DO NOT misrepresent what I said!
I know exactly what Masonary teaches about this so-called symbolism; my POINT is, that it is “…a most blasphemous ‘reinactment’ of the Death and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ…If not the most contemptuous…attempt at, PARALLELISM, making a complete MOKERY of Jesus’ death and resurrection under so-called ‘SYMBOLISM…”
I understand your defense of the Order, I WAS once there, just like you, and the utterly deceived masses of Freemasons!
The so-called ‘light’ that is IN you, IS DARKNESS; and you’ll never SEE nor understand this, until you come to the TRUE, LIGHT of the world, The LORD JESUS CHRIST!
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Georgie Porgie
Adrian Hinds
The plenary verbal inspiration of the Bible refers to the concept that the writing of the entire Bible was inspired by God.
The word for “inspired” in the text in the Greek in 2 Tim3:16 can literally be translated “God breathed.
2 Timothy 3:16 reads All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
2 Peter 1:20-21 says Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Verse 21 helps explain what Peter meant by the last clause in verse 20. “no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation.” ” no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will.”
“For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man.” Obviously he is referring to Old Testament prophecy. It didn’t come by the will of man. That is, Isaiah, for example, did not sit down saying, “I think I’ll write a book because I need some money. I’ll send it to the publisher, and he will send me an advance check, and then I’ll get royalties for it.” That is the reason some men write in our day, but that is not the way Isaiah did it. Listen to Peter: “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man.” The prophecy of Isaiah was not something that Isaiah thought up.
The prophets did not speak from their own wisdom. Everything came from God. The false prophets, on the other hand, according to Jeremiah and Ezekiel, were men who “spoke a vision of their own imagination, not from the mouth of God.”
“No prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.” What Peter is saying here is that no portion of the Scripture is to be interpreted apart from other references to the same subject.
That is the reason I put up such an objection to this idea of pulling out one little verse of Scripture and building a doctrine on that one verse. If you cannot get the whole body of Scripture to confirm your doctrine, then you had better get a new doctrine, my friend.
We can not , and we do not base what we believe on a single verse. While it is wonderful to have one marvelous verse of Scripture, if it tells a great truth, there will be at least two or three verses and usually a whole chapter on it somewhere in the Bible. Simon Peter is telling us that no passage of Scripture should be interpreted by itself. We need to confirm it with other Scriptures.
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Then how did the prophecies come to them? Peter says, “But holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” That is men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”
The Lord said to Jeremiah, “. . . everywhere I send you, you shall go, and all that I command you, you shall speak” (1:7); “. . . arise and speak to them all which I command you” (1 17).
“But holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
“Holy men” does not mean that the writers were some super-duper saints. It means holy in the sense of being set apart for this particular office. If you are a holy Christian, it means that you are set apart for Jesus Christ. Holy means “to be set apart.”
“As they were moved by the Holy Ghost [Spirit]” is a delightful figure of speech. The Greek actually portrays the idea of a sailing vessel. The wind gets into those great sails, bellies them out, and moves the ship along. That is the way the Holy Spirit moved these men. These men who were set apart for the writing of the Scriptures were moved along by the Spirit of God.
The prophets did not simply give their interpretation of how things were or would be They spoke as God’s mouthpieces articulating His thoughts in words that accurately represented those thoughts.
The prophets were moved to speak by the Holy Spirit, just as sailboats begin to move when the wind comes up and fills their sails. The Holy Spirit “moved” the prophets to do so as the wind moves a sailboat (cf.John 3:8). The same Greek verb (phero) occurs in Acts 27:15 and 17 to describe that action.
Peter says that the Scriptures were spoken by God. And the prophets, were more than amanuenses who took dictation from God; rather, they expressed their own feelings and thoughts. Nevertheless, God was able to transmit His complete will and word through the men who wrote Scripture. This is the thing that makes it a miraculous Book. You see, the Word of God is not only divine; it is human, very human. It is like the Lord Jesus who was both God and man. The Bible is a God-book and a man-book. It deals with human life, right down where you and I live and move and have our being, yet it is God speaking to man in a language that is understandable to him.
So what we have in Scripture did not originate in the minds of men but in the
mind of God. “False teaching flows from the minds of men and women;
truth flows from the heart and mind of the living God.” “The Spirit, not human volition, is the originating power in prophecy.”
Luke’s gospel is as inspired as any other portion of Scripture. Luke is thought in his introduction to be addressing an official called Theophilus.
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Georgie Porgie
I should add that by “verbal” we mean that the very words ( the ipsimae verbae) are inspired in the original language and context
@George Porgie… If I may please ask you a serious question:
Are you familiar with the work of Kurt Gödel? Specifically, his incompleteness theorems?
@GP: “The prophets did not speak from their own wisdom. Everything came from God.
Please prove this statement.
If you can….
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Zoe
@ Christopher Halsall @Georgie Porgie “If I may please ask you a serious question:”
@GP: “The prophets did not speak from their own wisdom.Everything came from God.”
“Please prove this statement…If you can…”
“Now we (Christians) have recived not the spirit of the world (system), but the spirit which is of God; that we might KNOW the things that are freely given to us of God.”
“Which things also, we speak not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth: comparing spiritual things with spiritual.” (I Cor. 2: 12-13).
Here is a distinct claim of the Holy Spirit for understanding (Illumination) the Revelation received. It is NOT a senseless rhapsody or secret mystery, but God expects us to understand, “the things that are freely given us by God” (ta hupo tou theou charisthenta hemin). First aorist passive neuter plural articular participle of ‘charizomai’, to bestow.
God gave the revelation through the Holy Spirit and He gives the ‘illumination’ of the Holy Spirit to understand the mind of the Spirit.
“Now the natural man ( psuchikos de anthropos. Note the absence of article here, “A natural man” I.e., Halsall et al, an unregenerate man, spiritually!) RECEIVETH NOT ( Does not accept, rejects, refuses to accept) the things of the Spirit of God: (Why not?) for they are FOOLISHNESS unto them: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (v.14).
In Romans 8:7, Paul definitely states the ‘inability’ (oude gar dunatai) of the mind of the flesh to receive the things of the Spirit of God, untouched by the Holy Spirit. But, to those who have been regenerated spiritually, they are no longer “foolishness” (moria) to us as was once the case (1:23).
Today, more than ever, one notes certain of the ‘intelligentsia’ who sneer at Christ and Christianity in their own ignorance. “He cannot know them (ou dunatai gnonai). He is not able to get a knowledge (ingressive second aorist active infinitive of ‘ginosko’. His helpless condition calls for ‘pity’ in place of impatience on our part, though such an one, usually poses as a paragon of wisdom (worldly) and commiserates the deluded followers of Christ.. ‘They are spiritually judged’ ( pneumatikos anakrinetai). The word means a sifting process to get at the truth by investigation as of a judge. These ‘psuchikoi’ men are incapable of rendering a decision, for they are utterly unable to recognize the facts.
They judge by the ‘psuche’ (mere animal nature) rather than by the ‘pneuma’ ( the renewed spirit).
“But, he that is spiritual (regenerated) judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him. But we have the mind of Christ.” (vv. 15,16).
“judgeth all things (anakrinei panta). The spiritual man (ho pneumatokos) is qualified to sift, to examine, to decide rightly, because he has the eyes of his heart enlightened by the Spirit (Eph. 1:18), and IS NO longer blinded by the god of this world ( 11 Cor. 4:4). There is a great lesson for Christians who KNOW by personal experience the things of the Spirit of God. Men of ‘intellectual’ gifts who are ‘ignorant’ of the things of Christ, talk learnedly and patronizingly about the things of which they are grossly ignorant. The spiritual man is superior to all this false knowledge.
“He himself is judged of no man (autos de hup oudenos anakrinetai). Men will pass judgment on him, but the spiritually regenerated man, refuses to accept the decision of his ignorant judges.
He stands head and shoulders above to them all, as Polycarp did when he prefered to be ‘burnt’ to saying, “Lord Caesar” in place of “Lord Jesus.” He was unwilling to save his earthly life by the worship of Caesar in place of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Polycarp, was a ‘pneumatikos’ man!
Like Paul said, so do GP and me, with multitudes of others:
” I KNOW Him whom I have believed.”
“I believe; therefore I have spoken.” Amen!
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Adrian Hinds
Is it any wonder that church membership is dwindling? that christianity is losing it’s appeal to average people?
Some disgusting people in an attempt to be God-like or God-light have made worship of God into a needlessly complex undertaking, which I assume puts them somewhere in between their fellom man and the almighty.
If the path to my salvation means that I have to cross paths with such people I guess I will never see the pearly gates. chupse.
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Adrian Hinds
Wuh ever happen to suffer the little children to come unto me? Are they suppose to understand the BS you guys would have us believe is the way, the truth and the light?
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Bush Tea
Adrian why you don’t cool yourself nuh? what you fretting for?
You must know that they are two types of cricket exponents – One who can bat, bowl and /or field well, and another who knows every detail of every match ever played (but who can’t ‘botch a peg’….)
….do you think that you need to know every statistic about test matches to be a good cricketer?
GP and Zoe are like Tony Cozier and Andrew Mason…. you ever see Cozier bat?
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Micro Mock Engineer
“First, God did not create Satan, the Devil!”
LOL… carry on smartly Zoe.
—————–
“MME, you should perhaps stick to your adventures in apoptasis”
LOL GP… keep holding out hope for that pretribulation rapture you and Zoe so long for… I will not try to convince you otherwise… time makes more converts than reason.
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Georgie Porgie
Adrian Hinds
You speak about what you know not.
Research indicates that church membership is dwindling mainly because the Bible is NOT taught. Christianity is losing it’s appeal to average people because average people are not interested in Spiritual things, and the Word has been watered down. Furthermore Jesus predicted in Luke 18, that this is exactly what would happen..
Being able to explain the Bible, or having studied Greek at Theological Seminary as Zoe obviously has, does not make him disgusting, and he is not worshipping here, so how could he be making the “worship of God into a needlessly complex undertaking.”
I have friends in this country who teach Greek and pastor vibrant churches, and I was amazed once when visiting his church in VA to hear an old lady taking about “hortotary subjunctives”!
That church has a vibrant summer camp that attracts over 100 black childen every summer for almost two decades and even gets State funding for the goodwork they do!
Why judge a man because he understands and can do something you cany. Or are not interested in doing?
When you say that “If the path to my salvation means that I have to cross paths with such people I guess I will never see the pearly gates” that does not affect those people. And some of those same people have, and continue to attract people to the kingdom.
Here you are quoting a scripture out of context to make your self feel good. What does suffering the little children to come unto me, have to do with the price of cheese here?
And no one can say that his exposition is either unsound or inaccurate. He has rightly divided the texts he quoted, and put I a little Greek — and it was sweet and well done.
And Bush Tea, I am sure that you know nothing about either GP and Zoe, and I feel insulted to be compared to Tony Cozier or Andrew Mason, especially.
I am a simple fun loving man who has enjoyed studying the Bible and studying about the Bible, over a period of time; just as others have spent some of their time reading other tomes. Some read Shakespeare some Sade some Shelly , Zoe and I have read Scriptures. Wuh wrong wid dat?
I see you guys pontificate on all matters under the sun on this blog, as you like, but when we quote or teach the Word of God, the daggers come out. But Jesus did teach us to expect that.
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Bush Tea
@GP,
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Some read Shakespeare some Sade some Shelly , Zoe and I have read Scriptures. Wuh wrong wid dat?
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…not a ting! Bush tea envy wanna…
You are an intelligent man. have you ever tried to make a critical assessment of your biblical position? I mean seriously???
What causes you to be so defensive and aggressive towards criticism? Have you considered that criticism is a special blessing that offers the opportunity to fine tune your position and to increase your chance of making correct decisions?
No one doubts your love for bible study or your great knowledge of things medical and biblical…. no one questions that you are bright…. you are not like dumpsy bush tea…..
…but GP, KNOWING the scriptures is not the same as UNDERSTANDING the ways of God, and even THAT is not the same as being a son of God. (does the bible not say somewhere that the devil knows the word even better that you and Zoe?)
My cricket analogy is relevant here. You are like someone who KNOWS all the history and statistics of the game. You have studied and divided the techniques and tactics….. BUT CAN YOU PLAY???
Just like a simple country boy who can barely speak -far less read- could turn out to be a brilliant cricketer, so too someone who has none of the vast knowledge of you and Zoe could be a brilliant christian.
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Ramgoat Liver
One should never disrespect another’s spiritual beliefs and well being.
There are some who are seekers and some who are not.
Some seekers have different paths and that is their right.
Spirituality is relevant to describe any particular path chosen, that is relevant to that individual who believes in a matters of the soul.
GP notes that many are not interested in spirituality, today.
This is true.
To each their own. But do not disrespect another beliefs.
That is the root cause of all today’s problems, disrespect, hatred, jealousy, power hunger.
There is no need to seek to determine another’s path.
The only one that counts is one’s own.
Without that, one is lost.
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Ramgoat Liver
Blogger above ‘Please prove this statement.
If you can….’
………………….
This is the most common error in many discussions on the topic.
By definition, faith is not provable.
What makes it still worse, is the attempt to seek to ‘prove’ something of an unknown nature and magnitude, by examination within our own limited parameters of understanding.
Again, not possible, which brings us back to the definition of faith vs not.
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Georgie Porgie
Bush Tea,
Re have you ever tried to make a critical assessment of your biblical position? I mean seriously??? Why should I. Why should I conform to the world view? I am trying hard to transform to Christ’s view as taught in Romans 12:1.
Re What causes you to be so defensive and aggressive towards criticism? Jude teaches that believers are to earnestly contend for the faith. The silly stupid comments made on BU must be exposed for what they are.
For instance Jesus said “Allow the children to come, but he didn’t say to give baby lessons for Infants A standard.: A Lot of children understand some very difficult spiritual truths. That is something that is amazing. But spiritual truth is spiritually discerned.
Re No BT I don’t consider that criticism by Biblical illiterates is a special blessing that offers the opportunity to fine tune my position and to increase my chance of making correct decisions? To make correct decisions, one goes to God in prayer and ask for guidance. How can a Biblical and spiritual neophyte advice me about making decisions.
Bush Tea you have never met me. You do NOT KNOW what I UNDERSTAND about the ways of God. BT you cant UNDERSTAND about the ways of God without KNOWING the Scriptures. And you become a son of God by believing cf John 1:12.
No.The Bible dos not say that the devil knows the word even better that you and Zoe. It says the devils believe and tremble (though those on BU as your spiritually seared that they don’t even tremble!)
“Someone who has none of the vast knowledge of you and Zoe could be a brilliant Christian” is a true statement. And there are indeed many like that. No doubt Zoe, like I started out our lives as Christians knowing nothing. But should we not know more over the course of 40 years? Would you expect me to know less Medicine than I knew when I began in 1974?
Christians are taught in 2 Peter 3:18, to grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. They are taught to study and to search the Scriptures BT. In so doing they acquire knowledge.
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Zoe
@Bush Tea, “…but GP, KNOWING the Scriptures is not the same as UNDERSTANDING the ways of God, and even THAT is not the same as being a son of God. (does the bible not say somewhere that the devil knows the word even better than you and Zoe?”
BT, You have it all twisted again, as one CANNOT have an UNDERSTANDING of the ways of God, without KNOWING the Scriptures!
Almighty God HAS given us a revelation of Himself, especially in the Person of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Eternal Trinity!
Secondly, the devil might know the Scriptures better than any earthly person, BUT, he most certainly DOES NOT, ‘Rightly Divide’ it, rather, his tact, is to TWIST, PERVERT, CONVOLUTE, and malign the Word of God, as we see here on BU all the time, and throughout the world with FALSE prophets!
GP and I, under the Holy Spirit’s guidance, ‘Righty Divide’ the Word of God, and WE are NOT ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for IT IS the power of God unto salvation, to the Jew first and the Gentile! (Rom. 1:16).
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Bush Tea
“BT, You have it all twisted again, as one CANNOT have an UNDERSTANDING of the ways of God, without KNOWING the Scriptures”
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Mr Zoe, surely you were a bit sleepy when you said the above.
There are people who never learned to read or write ( and who therefore CANNOT have known the scriptures) who fully understood (and understand) the ways of God.
You two seem to be fascinated with the scriptures. However, the truth is that the scriptures are provided as a testimony and a witness to the world. It is not an academic work whose study will lead to any spiritual qualifications.
The bible is a complex and confusing inspired work and has a significant role in the master plan, BUT the bible is not THE WAY!!
The way to (knowing) God is well documented.
The way to (knowing) truth is well documented
…and the source of real light is well documented….and none of these ways (according to the bible) is the bible.
Wanna fellows note the type of people Jesus chose to be disciples?
Did he look for the bright boys from Crumpton St?
Did he look for the bookworms who studied the scriptures for 40+ years?
What bright boys what?!!
…the man went for fishermen, bushmen and waterford types…
What wanna pick from that?
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Georgie Porgie
Bush Tea
You do have it all twisted again, as one CANNOT have an UNDERSTANDING of the ways of God, without KNOWING the Scriptures”…… and I am wide awake!
All TRUR Christians ought to be fascinated with the scriptures; and the best of them are! And a list of such outstanding Christians can easily be compiled!
Whereas it is true that the Bible is not an academic work whose study will lead to any spiritual qualifications, it is a treatise around which there is much academia, as there is for all subjects that mankind deems important to himself.
There is much academia about Shelly and Chaucer and Shakespeare, is there not? So why not around the Bible?
The bible is a complex and confusing inspired work to some and has a significant role in the master plan, BUT IT MUST BE STUDIED! The Bible itself says STUDY TO SHOW THY SELF APPROVED UNTO GOD, and all good Christians take that injunction literally!
As complex as the Bible is, it can be mastered and unraveled with the aid of the Holy Spirit its Resident Teacher/Author. Cf I John 2: 20 & 27. Jesus himself taught that when the comforter (the Holy Spirit) is come he would guide the believers into ALL TRUTH!
The scriptures are indeed provided as a testimony and a witness to the world.
The bible is THE WAY BT! Several Scriptures declare this. Please check a good concordance.
The way to (knowing) God is well documented in the BIBLE in several scriptures such as John 14:6; Acts 4:12 inter alia
The way to (knowing) truth is well documented in the BIBLE in several scriptures such as John 17 inter alia
. …and the source of real light is well documented…. in the BIBLE in several scriptures such as 1 John 1:5-7 inter alia
Re Wanna fellows note the type of people Jesus chose to be disciples? YES
Re Did he look for the bright boys from Crumpton St? NO HC was not around then!
Re Did he look for the bookworms who studied the scriptures for 40+ years? What bright boys what?!!
Obviously Paul and Solomon were not dummies BT, and all the apostles knew the OT well. It was part of their culture! They just did not understand certain things about it as they ought to have………….just as many are to day ignorant of God’s Word.
They have not studied it!
Tom Brown is a brilliant Dr. Why? He studied Medicine.
Mr Jones is a brilliant Juris. Why? He studied Law
The young boys on the block around the contemporary world are brilliant criminals. Why? They study crime.
J Vernon McGee, Adrian Rogers, Woodbridge, Chaffer, Constable, Ryrie, Darby, Campbell Morgan, Billy Graham, Billy Sunday, Spurgeon were all great expositors of the Word. Why? They studied the Bible.
Some of these were fishermen, bushmen and waterford types and some were HC types too BT.
How I love this passage from I Corinthians 1:25-28 which reads
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]: 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
I love that little word “ MANY” in verse 26 BT. I thanlk God that it does not say “ANY”. So Praise God BT, there is room for bright boys too! LOL.. It does not say not ANY bright boys, it says NOT MANY! (relatively speaking of course)
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Georgie Porgie
Why Church membership is dwindling acorrding to this report from todays NATION
Anglicans ‘need to get in touch’
Published on: 9/27/2009.
by CARLOS ATWELL
THE ANGLICAN CHURCH cannot be relevant in the 21st century unless it connects with the youth, spreads a culture of love and inspires the public.
These were the main conclusions drawn by panellists at a public discussion entitled Is the Anglican Church Relevant To 21st Century Barbados?, held at the Christ Church Parish Centre, Church Hill, on Thursday night.
The discussion, which was under the patronage of Bishop of Barbados, Dr John Holder, was sponsored by the Diocesan Commission on Justice, Advocacy and Social Responsibility to examine the social and political ministry of the church.
Commission chairman, Rev. Dr Marcus Lashley, said the discussion was one of the activities being held in celebration of the church’s 40th anniversary of disestablishment and disendowment.
The panel included president of the senate, Brandford Taitt – who is a member of the St Leonard’s Church, chairman of the Diocesan Commission on Youth and member of the Synod; Alex Waterman – a member of Christ Church Parish Church; and former United Nations Resident Representative Dr Rosina Wiltshire – a member of St Matthias Church.
Waterman said the church was not as relevant as it could be because its methods were outdated and it was not adapting to the times.
“My conclusion is the church cannot be relevant when our congregations are falling in numbers; when the 42 Diocesan parishes each see themselves as separate and distinct; when few promote its work and too many are satisfied just to warm a pew on a Sunday morning nor when it is constricted by bureaucracy,” he said.
Waterman advised that he solution lay in making sure the congregation understood their faith and that youth were not caught up solely in ritualism but in rational, open-minded faith.
“Then they will understand that the materialism, revelry and instant gratification which some seek are symptoms of a void only God can cure. When this is understood then we will have a church that is relevant,” he said.
Wiltshire said love was the key to transform Barbadian society from the current “boss style” leadership and the church had to lead the way in this change.
“The Anglican Church is a place where tens of thousands of Barbadians still regularly seek spiritual food and practice spiritual discipline; so it is therefore clearly relevant. However, the reality is the church is no longer attracting numbers as it did before, particularly among the young; and the erosion of core values continues, she said.
Taitt said while he thought the Anglican Church on the whole was still relevant, there were some priests who were not.
“The fact is, we have had some people in the pulpit who are the most irrelevant you would find anywhere. We should insist our people are trained in how to inspire. You have to be someone who inspires by the way you talk and walk.
I wonder sometimes how he or she got to be ordained in the first place?” he said.
Taitt said the church was therefore not as relevant as it could be.
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Bush Tea
@GP
You have a one track mind.
I will just make two points…and ask one question.
1 – Jesus said that HE – was the way, the truth and the light. He added that through HIM was the only way for mankind to approach the father.
….i guess he may have been mistaken (according to your division).
2 – If you and Zoe think that God depends on some human institution to teach reading and comprehension so that people can understand the scriptures, and only then have a chance for salvation, wanna definitely smoking something…..
Question:
– Having studied,divided and referenced the scriptures for 40 years, when will you address the question of why God made the devil and why such suffering and evil is allowed in this world….what went wrong?
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Bush Tea
@ GP
I really LOVE how you choose scriptures that support Bush Tea’s position (as if there are any that don’t…..LOL) and purport that they don’t.
Did you read what Paul was saying from verse 17? …. that he came not to baptize but to preach the gospel – NOT WITH THE WISDOM OF WORDS,
…for the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom….
..but we preach CHRIST CRUCIFIED, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks, foolishness (BUT GET THIS…) but unto them that are called, (we preach) Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
Can you see now why ‘not many bright boys will be saved GP? wanna leaning on the wisdom of the Greeks…. that is why my simple little question is such a stumbling block.
(…like when you ask an evolutionist which came first – chicken or egg… ROTFL)
You forget to cite the Scripture which says in Galatians 6:7:
“Be not deceived, God is not mock – what a man sows, is what he reaps”…
Matthew Henry’s Commentary puts it this way:
“Many excuse themselves from the work of religion, though they may make a show, and profess it. They may impose upon others, yet they deceive themselves if they think to impose upon God, who knows their hearts as well as actions; and as he cannot be deceived, so he will not be mocked. Our present time is seed time; in the other world we shall reap as we sow now. As there are two sorts of sowing, one to the flesh, and the other to the Spirit, so will the reckoning be hereafter. Those who live a carnal, sensual life, must expect no other fruit from such a course than misery and ruin. But those who, under the guidance and influences of the Holy Spirit, live a life of faith in Christ, and abound in Christian graces, shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. We are all very apt to tire in duty, particularly in doing good. This we should carefully watch and guard against. Only to perseverance in well-doing is the reward promised. Here is an exhortation to all to do good in their places. We should take care to do good in our life-time, and make this the business of our lives. Especially when fresh occasions offer, and as far as our power reaches.”
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Georgie Porgie
Bush Tea
Re You have a one track mind. I wish I did. I would have been more successful in life.
Jesus did indeed say that HE – was the way, the truth and the light in John 14:6 which I referred you to in my post.
.
He did indeed add that through HIM was the only way for mankind to approach the father, in the same verse, as I alluded. This concept is taught also in Acts 4:12 & 1 Tim 2:5-6.
The same Jesus in John 5 taught the people to SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES TO LEARN OF HIM, and on the discussion on the Road to Emmaus in Luke 2425-:27 he seemed to have expected those of his followers to have known what the scriptures had foretold about his sufferings. 25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Verse 27 in particular states ….27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Apparently neither He or I have been mistaken (according to my right division of the Word of Truth, my dear BT!).
I do not think that either Zoe or I think that God depends on some human institution to teach reading and comprehension so that people can understand the scriptures, and only then have a chance for salvation, wanna definitely smoking something….. because we don’t!
I accepted Christ by grace through faith for my salvation, according to the scriptures, and believe and teach that that is the Bible way to be saved.
Then in an attempt to fulfill the mandate of 2 Peter 3:18 , 1 Peter 3:15 and 2 Timothy 2:15, I acquired a knowledge of the Word by reading and studying the Word for myself, and by reading proper authors thereon and listening to wholesome teaching of the Bible.
Re Having studied, divided and referenced the scriptures for 40 years, when will you address the question of why God made the devil and why such suffering and evil is allowed in this world….what went wrong?
The answer is when I feel like it! The question has already been answered any way.
Your silly simple little question is not a stumbling block, and is really of little consequence, because the answer is NEITHER RELEVANT FOR SALVATION NOR FOR FAITH & PRACTICE!..
Re Can you see now why ‘not many bright boys will be saved GP? wanna leaning on the wisdom of the Greeks….
First being bright or stupid is not a prerequisite for salvation by the verses that you your self quoted. …. or by any of the proof texts on this topic.
Secondly, when I got saved I knew only the little that I had learned in school, Sunday School and in the Anglican church, where even at an early age the rector hoped that I would have become an Anglican priest!
Thirdly I pointed out to you, and very clearly, that in the same passage from which you are quoting that Paul writes “not MANY” and that he did not write not “ANY”.
Whereas the preaching of the Word is NEVER WITH THE WISDOM OF WORDS as noted in the passage you cite, as well as is pointed out in both 1 Thessalonians chapter 1, and especially chapter 2, the preaching of the Word is ALWAYS WITH WORDS WISELY CHOSEN!
You will see this clearly in all of the sermons of both Paul and Peter as recorded in Acts!
And all of us who teach the Word, knows that at the time of delivery, our carefully chosen words made in preparation are usually discarded, as the Spirit takes over! Ask any one who have done any serious Bible teaching or preaching BT.
Do you understand what is meant by the phrase …”for the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom….”
BT don’t you think that in a Gospel Meeting that Zoe or I wont preach CHRIST CRUCIFIED as detailed in the gospel set out in 1 Corinthians 15: 3-8 but especially 3-4?
Don’t you think that we understand and preach according to the tenets of Romans 1:16-18 and according to the modus operandi detailed in 1 Thessalonians chapter 2?
You really know aught about us, except that we have studied the Word, and can articulate what we believe well as we seek to obey Judes’s injunction to earnestly contend for the faith!
We, my wife and myself, recently attended a funeral in Barbados. We have attended many, and understand how important a funeral is to many Barbadians. The deceased person was the brother of a good friend of ours, and we were attending to give our friend some support, and, as we so often say, to renew our contact with him even though the circumstances were very sad.
The service proceeded according to the order of service given to us, and the eulogy was delivered. The next item, according to the order of service, was to be a tribute from his brother, our friend. However, whoever was on the public address system said that the next item would be a solo singing rendition, from someone else. By this time, our friend had arrived at the rostrum, and he turned to the announcer and said, with the microphone in his hand, that the announcement was a mistake, and that according to the order of service, which we all held in our hands (I estimate a four to five hundred attendance in the church), he was now to give a tribute to his dead brother.
We have never ever witnessed at a funeral what happened next! As our friend asserted his right to give a tribute, the minister of the church, robes flowing, nearly physically assaulted our friend, and stopped his presentation. The minister forcibly took the microphone out of our friend’s hands.
My wife and myself walked out of the church in disgust. We were the first to move, many followed, and the altercations continued in the car park outside the church as we drove away.
We did not understand what was going on there. However, we do know that the deceased person was a prominant member of the Freemasons, and his brother, who is not a member of the Freemasons, only wanted to deliver a tribute at the funeral as announced in the published order of service given to us all on entry to the church. Perhaps Lodge members at the church did not want the brother of the deceased to give this tribute. This is pure speculation. Certainly an announcement at the beginning of the service would have politely told us all that there had been a change in the published order.
Whether the Freemasons present were responsible or not for this disruption of a funeral service held in an Anglican church here in Barbados, we believe that the behaviour of the presiding minister of this church should be brought to the attention of our Rt. Rev. Dr. John Holder, and that at least some sort of formal public apology be given by the Anglican Church for this outrage and near desecration of a House of God, not to mention the disrespect shown to the deceased person, and his brother.
Anti-masons love to quote Pike as though he is some sort of authority for modern day masons, but as John Robinson puts it in his book “A Pilgrim’s Path”:
Some of the critics of Masonry cite the degree work, but more find their raw material for Masonic condemnation in Pike’s writings, especially his ponderous Morals and Dogma, an 861-page volume that many Masons own, but few have read. It is not only tedious reading, but is full of Pike’s own perceptions of Masonry. Many Masons will agree with some statements, but there are others that no Mason will ever believe. Pike was so wrapped up in his knowledge of ancient faiths and philosophic systems that he tended to make the background of Masonry far more complex and esoteric than it was ever meant to be. In some of his chapters, if the words “Mason” and “Masonry” were removed, it is reasonable to believe that many a Mason reading it would not recognize his own fraternity.”
“Pike was a man with an extraordinary breadth of knowledge, and it is only natural that he wanted to share it all. Unfortunately, he had just one outlet that he could count on, and he appears to have wanted to find a place for everything he knew in the Southern Jurisdiction of Scottish Rite. The teachings of Masonry are simple and clear. Pike preferred them to be festooned with mystic interpretations and deep, arcane meanings.”
“Make no mistake: Pike was a dynamic force in establishing a strong membership in his own jurisdiction, and a strong force in establishing degree work that has lasted for a hundred years. He was a towering figure in the history of American Masonry. What he was not was a Grand Master of any Grand Lodge, who alone is the final authority in basic Masonic practices and jurisprudence. He was never a spokesman for all of Freemasonry and never tried to assert himself as such. He was a strong man who never shrank from expressing his personal opinions, and it is important to remember that his pronouncements as they relate to Masonry are just that: his own opinions.”
“That’s why the most important part of Morals and Dogma may be its preface. Not written by Pike himself, the preface was, and is, the official statement of The Supreme Council, the governing body of Scottish Rite Masonry that published his work. It has been ratified by every succeeding Supreme Council, up to this very day. In part, it says
“In preparing this work, the Grand Commander [Pike] has been about equally Author and Compiler; since he has extracted quite half its contents from the works of the best writers and most philosophic or eloquent thinkers. Perhaps it would have been better and more acceptable if he had extracted more and written less.
“To remove any thought that the work contains religious dogma for Scottish Rite Masons, the preface says:”
The teachings of these readings are not sacramental, so far as they go beyond the realm of Morality into those other domains of Thought and Truth. The ancient and accepted Scottish Rite uses the word “Dogma” in its true sense, of doctrine, or teaching; and is not dogmatic in the odious sense of that term.
“And now the most important sentence in the preface (and, once again, the italics are mine {i.e., those of Robinson}):”
Everyone is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound.
@Monnowman
“Anti-masons love to quote Pike as though he is some sort of authority for modern day masons…”
Can we assume that you are either a MASON* or a sympathizer?
Either way, many notable authorities as well as EX-Masons vouchsafe for the validity of PIKE’s* influence on Freemasonry and the agenda of the Illuminati* work at world domination and the destruction for Christianity and other world religious systems…
Robinson’s attempt at spinning Freemasonry away from the clutches of PIKE* is an overt attempt at denial at least and a fabrication of the truth at worst…
Believe half of what you read and none of what you hear until the FACTS* are in…
Yep, I’m a mason. I’ve been one for long enough and have sufficient critical thinking faculties to have gathered plenty of facts about the organisation. Daft conspiracy theories aren’t my style.
@ Monnowman
“Daft conspiracy theories aren’t my style.”
Well I guess I won’t be able to clump you together with my dearly departed uncle who was a 33 degree mason, educated at OXFORD University to PhD level – someone for whom I was privileged to have access to his vast library and the ability to read some of the said “BOOKS” you would deem “CONSPIRATORIAL”…
I wonder what dear ‘ole Unc thought of PIKE* – he sure had a lot of his materials…
Actually, most of those said books are still in good hands (some with me here in England) and the others in Barbados in the family library…
Fascinating the disclaimers “Freemasons” tend to make…
Like all “secret societies” – spun truth is just as bizarre as fiction – a tangle-web of deceit and intrigue!!!
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Zoe
As an Ex-Freemason, who passed through the chair of Right Worshipful Master, I had during my years of fraternal fellowship, a good relationship with many high ranking individuals from within our Barbadian society, i.e., Lawyers, Judges, police, up to the level of Commissioner, including IR, medical doctors, buinessmen, and many others from various levels of citizenship, including a former Dean of St. Michael’s Cathedral, and a few other high ranking Anglican priest, all of whom where Freemasons, from both the English and Scottish arms of Freemasona
They were all very good law abiding men, civic minded, religious, and as far as I knew at the time, not involved in any kind of conspiratorial theories associated with much that has been written about Freemasonary.
However, the point I want to stress is this, like I was at the time, they were all in terrible *spiritual* blindedness, as Satan never presents his LIES up front, and in Freemasonary, Lucifer masterfully and cleverly has his crafty DECEPTION, couched, veneered, and convoluted in a MAZE of pseudo moral, philosophical and spiritual LIES, that simply cannot be understood or recognized, until and unless, one has that ‘spiritual’ blindfold, LIFTED from one’s mind, by no other than THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, through the spiritual regeneration of the ‘New Birth’ which is what happened to me, then and only then, did I start to see the utter deception of all the Masonic ritual that sounded so good, but was utterly fruitless in being able to transform man from within, where SIN, reigns in many disguised forms, in the hearts and lives of those, who do not know Jesus as their peronal Saviour and Lord.
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