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Submitted by Yardbroom

Caster Semenya
Caster Semenya

At the Athletics World Championship in Berlin last week, a shy black 18 year old female athlete from South Africa, won the womens 800m – setting the fastest time in the world this year.  The win was no surprise to those who had followed the early rounds of the 800 metres.  The teenager from a tiny village in Limpopo province has shown her talent but the world’s media, at first surprised at her times, decided to take a closer look and then events became uncomfortable for Caster Semenya.

Only hours before the race, it was announced that the IAAF (International Association of Athletics Federations) had instigated  gender testing for Caster Semenya.  South Africans were appalled, it was insensitive nd humiliating to the young athlete, did they have to go public, the charges and accusations came thick and fast, not only from South Africa.

Was this course of action within the rules of the IAAF ? Yes it was. The IAAF ceased gender screening for all athletes in 1992 but retains the option of assessing the gender of a participant should suspicions arise – Wikipedia. Suspicions had arisen, it was therefore within their remit to order a gender test.

There was not the usual post-race interview for Semenya, she was bundled away by the South African authorities.  The waiting media were denied the opportunity of hearing her reputed deep masculine voice or a closer inspection of a blush of facial hair.

On her return to South Africa there was no attempt to hide her away.  She was among friends.  The airport was crowded to welcome home South Africa’s “golden girl”.  Political opportunists were quick on the scene, they never let a crisis go to waste.

Winnie Madikizela-Mandela, Nelson Mandela’s ex wife was there to call her “my grandchild,” she elaborated “we are here to tell the whole world how proud we are of our little girl, they can write what they like we are proud of her”.  South Africa’s President Jacob Zuma was even more robust he said” They’re not going to remove the gold medal.  She won it.  So the question does not arise.”

Leonard Chuene the head of Athletics South Africa who had resigned his seat on the IAAF over the Semeya issue broadened the situation…”We are not going to allow Europeans to describe and defeat our children.”  Julius Malema – who heads the ANC (African National Congress) Youth League decided to go the racist route ” Calls for Semenya to be tested he said “were made solely because she was black and had surpassed her European competitors”.

With the tone now set in stone, preliminary tests indicated her – Semenya’s- testosterone levels were three times higher than ordinarily present in a woman”.  However, tests have not been “completed” they are expected to take weeks.

Is there any valid reason for the IAAF’s gender screening?  What is the history of gender screening?

  1. In 1936 after the Summer Olympics in Berlin, Avery Brundage of the United States Olympic Committee said a system should be established to examine female athletes.  There was concern at the time about *”hemaphrodites” and Brundage felt there was a need to clarify “sex ambiguities”.  He had seen the performance of Czechoslovak runner and jumper Zdenka Konbkova and English shot putter and javelin thrower Mary Edith Louise Weston.”  Both individuals later had sex change surgery and legally changed their names to Zdenek Koubek and Mark Weston.”
  2. “There was also the case of Stanislawa Walasiewicz – perhaps the earliest – ” who won a gold medal in the women’s 100m at the 1932 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles, but who after death in 1980 was discovered to have had partially developed male genitalia.  However, the presence of genitalia is not regarded as absolute evidence of a persons sex.”
  3. “The Polish athlete Ewa Klobukowska who won the gold medal in the women’s 4x100m relay in the 1964 Summer Olympics in Tokyo failed a gender test in 1967.  She was found to have a  rare genetic condition which gave her no advantage over other athletes but was nonetheless banned from competing at the Olympics and Professional Sports.  Also there was Indian middle distance runner Santhi Soundarajan who won the silver medal in the 800m at the 2006 Asian Games in Doha, Qatar she failed the sex verification test and was stripped of her medal”.
  4. “Sex verification has long been criticized by geneticists, endocrinologists, and others in the medical community.  One major problem was unfairly excluding women who had a birth defect involving gonards and external genitalia (i,e., male pseudohermagph roditism)”

The case of Caster Semenya has a world wide audience, an 18 year old girl from a small village in Limpopo province, South Africa, set off to run at the World Athletic Championships in Berlin 2009.  Little did she know how close an examination there would be, not only of her running but of herself   Racism, “perhaps” a European perspective of what males and females should look like, have all been thrown into the mix.

Behind it all is a young Black African girl waiting for results, which will determine how the world sees her.  We wait for results which will be over for us in a flash, then yesterday’s news, but for Caster Semenya they will be with her for the rest of her life.


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233 responses to “Gold, Race And A Question Of Gender: Caster Semenya”


  1. Ryan Brafate burs’ on de scene wid personal besses too..!

    AAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhh


  2. Rump, thank u for the op. to c my darling Flo again – otherwise, all I can say is; ‘they’re some very strange-looking ‘women’, out there!! Glad I in married to any uh dum, boa!!


  3. Georgie Porgie,

    Good Lord, why the rabid tone of your response?

    ‘ Is it not true that Florence Griffith Joyner also suddenly rose to the top ? Is it not true that she evinced signs of use of anabolic steroids.

    Or are you ignorant of these signs?

    – I never said that she was fully clear, I said that the evidence indicates that he death was not a result per se of steroid use. This means that her death could not be blamed on steroids. Show me where I said that this vindicated her?

    2) So then she did not really die from asthma as you early opined. And as a trained professional, I know that all that BS you state does not prove that Flo Jo (whom you seek to defend) did not take steroids.

    – stop putting statements to me. I never said that she died from asthma. That was an anoymous poster above. One does not have to be a trained professional (medical) to understand that the events are mutually exclusive.

    – My ‘BS’? Nothing of what I posted was BS. It was fact and based on acknowledged and agreed information from substantiated news sources.

    Or do you believe that you are more knowledgeable both the FJ coroners and also the British Telegraph collectively?

    Clearly, to anyone with commonsense, the link between an East German coach was was not only proved, but admitted steroid supplementation to athletes, now coaching SA, the similarlity between the physical characteristics and spectacular performances and times between two of his athletes, one East German (actually there were more, I only used one example) and one SA athelete, is strong circumstantial evidence, vitually convincing.

    Why is this BS?

    3) Certainly you are not cognizant that such development of secondary sexual characteristics in young females at this age is under hormonal control, and that at this time the conversion of cholesterol to progesterone to androgens to estrogens reaches a peak and DOES SO SUDDENLY!

    – On that point, yes I admit ignorance that at 18 years old, the female would have such sudden manifest changes, I personally have never come across such a female and have never been involved in such medical environments.

    I am indeed surprised that such would lead to these amazing athletic performances. Surprising then, that with this assertion of yours, there are not more.

    That said, I will go strongly with the investigation of the coaches and substances, rather than the ‘theory’ that you pontificate on, even though you are a medical professional.

    4) I don’t write stuff in the forum because I have a computer and internet access. When I write on issues of a science I usually KNOW of what I speak.

    So the rest of us do not? Hmmm. Maybe, but much things as you yourself pontificate on are above the rest of us, as you regularly mention.

    Unfortunately, I am willing to bet against your ‘pontification’ and that you are wrong in this case.

    But, I acept that we, even you medical professionals, cannot be right all the time, can we, which is probably why body-bags leave the hospital so regularly, much to the horror and shock of relatives.

    Lastly, I again wonder at the vitriol in responses, when one makes valid points, which as I point out in respect of mine, are backed up by facts, direct links to the reports etc.

    Undoubtedly, some take themselves much too seriously.

    Note also, that I have not insulted you nor your ideas, in my response.

    As I have been told, ‘form is temporary, class is permanent.’

    Peace


  4. Gearbox,

    No Ryan Brathwaite has been at the top of his game for a while, indeed, were it not for bumping a hurdle at the last Olympics and getting offset thereby, a medal may have come then.

    Peace

  5. **Adviser to the President** Avatar
    **Adviser to the President**

    TO BIMBRO

    I missed the question

  6. **Adviser to the President** Avatar
    **Adviser to the President**

    CERTAIN members of Parliament sound like members of the opposite sex. What Patrick Todd should now ask for is a gender test of all parliamentarians.

    Lets have a gender test as mandatory for those entering parliament, the priesthood, the top echelons of the civil service etc. If you cant get a declaration of ASSets , at least a gender test might suffice.


  7. Adviser, knowing Barbadians as I now do, I’m not surprised u ‘missed the question’. I’d be perhaps, more surprised, if u had n’t!! Anyhow, how about an answer to that one!!


  8. Rump, sorry for acknowledging you!!


  9. Thanks for the answer J, regarding the Guyanese to help you do the weeding, and yes, you are right that the host on Trinidad TV talk show would take Caster down town Port of Spain, you are right.

    Now Mr. Georgie I don’t know anything about this sort of thing about which drugs turns into ladies hormones and which ones turn into male hormones, all I did was make a comment from what I heard on a morning talk show in Trindiad and Tobago and then from what I saw of Caster on CNN.

    Now Flo Jo may have taken the male hormones, I don’t know, but never in my wildest dreams would I have ever looked at Flo Jo and say oh she is a man, NEVER, Flo Jo looked like a woman/female to me, and to the rest of the world, now with Caster is a different story, BUT if Caster was born without the male thing, then she is a female, whether she has male parts inside of her or whatver. That is how I feel.


  10. Hey Bimbro, no problem, sorry I cannot clear your girl. As you see, I did note that her death (according to EXPERTS…lol) was not in any way attributable to steroid use, that is about as much as I go.

    Obviously, even that note seems to have put someone’s ‘knickers in a twist’ as you English say.

    But, have a good Sunday pm there.

    Off to the pub shortly or a walk in the park?

    Peace


  11. Obviously, even that note seems to have put someone’s ‘knickers in a twist’ as you English say.

    But, have a good Sunday pm there.

    Off to the pub shortly or a walk in the park?

    Peace

    **************

    Rump, than u for the further info. about Flo and, it’s comforting to be re reassure she did n’t cheat!! However, I’d prefer not to think about Flo’s nickers at the moment!! That was a long time ago and I was a young man, then!!

    Laaaaaaaaddddddddddddddd!! – one hell of a WOMAN!!


  12. @Rumple

    From a factual base you are on good ground with your comment. Some would say in retort however many athletes of the past slipped through the cracks because of poor testing technology at the time. Although Flo Jo, Carl Lewis and others have records which demonstrate excellence there will always be questions asked, it is the nature of inquiring minds.


  13. So sorry she’s gone!!


  14. What a disgrace, d udda one d Bajan boy get eself mix-up wid!! – in prison now, I believe!! She’s such a disgrace. Used to b a huge admirer but would now spit in she face, if I meet she!!

  15. **Adviser to the President** Avatar
    **Adviser to the President**

    I have things to do
    I dont spend all my spare time on the blogs


  16. David,

    Yes, point taken and in terms of Flo Jo have thus said ‘that is as far as I go’.

    On that issue, I think we needed to be clear, not rely on guesswork or rumour, thus the reference to the coroner’s report.

    The overall issue is whether drugs continue in the sport (I think they do), how are these masked and what will be done to be rid of it.

    In my original post, I asked the question ‘Without making specific allegations, do you think that the IAAF has a handle on the performance-enhancing issue?

    Such components can be masked and have been previously’.

    My own belief is that the IAAF is still in a pitched battle with cheaters and knows it.

    From another viewpoint, does anyone not realise that this ‘gender test’ is just a necessary process to come to the conclusion and action that they already believe exists?

    1) Gender test – ‘expected’ masculine trait eliminated…2) How are these levels in her so high…

    That second part will be the tricky bit for the South Africans and ironically may cause more heat for the SA team than if she had been a man.

    The IAAF are not stupid, they know that the coach is the former East German coach.

    Commonsense will say, THAT is really what has them concerned, now that a similar case has arisen to his previous cases.

    What is to be investigated is potentially ALL of the ways in which this was done.

    Maybe, just maybe she will be proved fully clean.

    But, if not, the question now arises, what else needs to be put in place to prevent this from happening again?

    Peace


  17. Rumplestilskin

    I assure that there is nothing “rabid” about asking

    ‘ Is it not true that Florence Griffith Joyner also suddenly rose to the top?
    Is it not true that she evinced signs of use of anabolic steroids.
    Or are you ignorant of these signs?

    The word “ignorant” comes from one of the Latin words for “to know” — ignorare.

    I don’t see any vitriol in my response either, because I sat down here and used the English language very simply with out any rancour or malice. But it is written “to the pure, all things are pure……… but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure ( Titus 1:15.)

    You said that “the evidence indicates that her death was not a result per se of steroid use. This means that her death could not be blamed on steroids.”

    And I say that there was NOTHING in either of the two pathologists reports that said that she did not die from use of steroids per se. Your two statements constitute a non sequitur.

    You didn’t bring any evidence. You quoted two pathologists’ reports.

    How much pathology have you studied or taught, or know?

    How many post mortems have you attended?

    Do you know the side effects of steroids?

    You are apparently having difficulty in grasping that dying as Flo Jo was purported to die by the pathologists you cite does not mean that steroid use, for any reason could not have TRIGGERED the attack. Is it making sense yet?

    I don’t give a hoot about what both the FJ coroners said. Coroners are often bought of up here in the USA, in case you don’t know. There was a blatant case in FL last year.

    The British Telegraph, as far as I know is NOT staffed by trained pathologists. It is NOT therfore in my view a good source to quote on Pathology.

    And who are you to decide what I know or don’t know. You were not one of my examiners at any stage of my training as either an undergraduate or post graduate.

    I do not care about the link between an East German coach and all that mumbo jumbo you quoted, and I don’t think that “strong circumstantial evidence is virtually convincing”.

    Scientists don’t make decisions on circumstantial evidence, like you do. CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IS NOT PROOF! Circumstantial evidence is used by scientists to frame hypotheses which are then tested by experiment and further investigation and observation. As a scientist your so called evidence and valid points is just highly distilled BS to me! Take it and put it in the Lowdown’s bidigester, man!

    35 YEARS OF. EXPERIENCE in Medicine will tell you that THINGS ARE NOT ALWAYS WHAT THEY SEEM. That is why body-bags sometimes leave the hospital much to the horror and shock of relatives.

    The fact that body bags leave SO REGULARLY done so is off course DUE DIRECTLY TO THE FACT THAT IT IS INDEED TRUE, THAT THE SOUL THAT SINNETH, IT SHALL DIE and the TRUTH THAT IT IS APPOINTED UNTO MAN ONCE TO DIE. And this whether good or bad Medicine is practiced.

    And again I KNOW what I am talking about?

    Do you really think, for example, that MJ died from a few recent injections of benzodiazepines and a reduced dose of propofol? Or was his death secondary to long term use of drugs?

    How much of the full or true Pathology reported has been released? We have heard about toxicology? Wre his heart and kidneys and liver functioning properly in the light of decades of drug abuse? What if…..?

    Sir you have neither form nor class with respect to the area of Biochemistry or Pathology or Physiology that I am discussing, but you call my suggestion “theory”, being apparently doubting or incognizant that I just reported about a metabolic pathway that is WELL KNOWN!

    (By the way cognizant is derived from another Latin verb for to “know” cognoscere).

    You are FAR OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE! You might follow athletics and reports about athletics, but your responses indicate that you are illiterate with respect to Medicine. Your so called “valid points” “backed up by direct links to the reports etc” has nothing to do with the issues I brought before the readers of the forum, and can not negate the clear Physiological Biochemical & Pathological facts that I revealed to the forum. I have gone far beyond the level at which you are pontificating, or are capable of.

    While not at all defending the young South African girl for any possible infelicity, I advanced a plausible Physiological and Biochemical explanation for the phenomenon that has unfolded, which is “sound doctrine that can not be refuted.” So I say again I KNOW of what I speak. .

    The facts might not indeed be consonant with my explanation, but that does not negate in any way the sound well known Physiological and Biochemical principals which I have clearly expounded.

    I am not here to bet, nor am I here to be right in this case. I am here to educate those on the forum who seek to learn about the issues that might surround the issue apart from the girl having taken drugs.

    If she has taken drugs, or if she has a rare Biochemical defect her phenotype would be the SAME! To differentiate between the two, rigorous tests would have to be done! Even a moron can comprehend that. I have offered a correct alternative view for consideration. It might be good for you to LEARN SOMETHING NEW SOMETIMES!

    You have indeed insulted me and my right to seek to educate the BU forum by offering an accurate and plausible alternative explanation to the situation that elicited this discussion.

    You admit your ignorance that the development of secondary sexual characteristics in young females at this age is under hormonal control, and that at this time the conversion of cholesterol to progesterone to androgens to estrogens reaches a peak and DOES SO SUDDENLY, even though this is going around you every day!

    All of us with good vision have noticed the lass who seemed to be just a little scrawny kid a few weeks ago blossom forth into puberty. This common phenomenon can occur anywhere between ages and 19, and varies from country to country and ethnic group to ethnic group. Moreover it occurs earlier these days, probably due to hormones put in animal foods.

    Now I specifically said that the young lady COULD have a RARE Biochemical defect such that the enzyme that converts androgens to estrogens do not function.

    Since such occurrences are RARE, you would not have ever come across such a female or ever been involved in such a medical observation. WE DON’T USUALY LET MEDICAL ILLITERATES SEE PATIENTS.

    Your said in your confessed ignorance that you “are surprised that such would lead to these amazing athletic performances. Surprising then, that with this assertion of yours, there are not more.”

    This is because you don’t understand the meaning of the word RARE, nor do you understand what I said when I pointed out that if she had a enzyme defect that prevented androgens from being converted to estrogens that she would have HIGH TESTOSTERONE LEVELS. If you did, you would understand that this would be indeed the very response that we should expect!

    I have not sought to be “right” nor have I asked any one to “go” with my “theory” (as you call it) that I explained and advanced as an alternative. I have sought only to educate the forum, and if I may say myself, I have again done so proficiently as I always do when I contribute in those areas which I know very well.


  18. Bim, You mean Marion Jones, she out now you know, but even she as they say used drugs, but it certainly did not turn her into a man. By the way she is from Belize.


  19. Goegie Porgie,

    All of the above verbosity does not add much at all to the issue, the Latin quotes are unimpressive as we all understand the meanings of the words, no need to try to impress, it does not.

    The overall issue remains one of athleticism and the unusual performance, of which the medical issue is but one facet.

    The issue of doping is not only just as relevant, albeit one can prance on about medical issue, but the issue of doping, IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES, is far more likely and thus CRITICAL.

    GP ‘CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IS NOT PROOF!’

    Circumstantial evidence is accepted in a court of law as proof.

    But, maybe you know more than those too?

    I have insulted you? No, I have put an alternate argument, RELEVANT to the case.

    Maybe if you replied with due respect to others more, you would see this.

    Your verbosity on hormonal imbalances may prove relevant, or may prove to be nothing more than a side issue, to the much more probable case of steroid use, resulting in spectacular athetic performance.

    After all, that is what the case is all about.

    GP ‘The British Telegraph, as far as I know is NOT staffed by trained pathologists. It is NOT therfore in my view a good source to quote on Pathology’

    I never said that they did. For someone who professes sound intellectual capacity, you seem unable to read and understand what you are reading.

    My original post referred to the Telegraph reporting on the athletic performance of the athlete and comparable performaces of her coach’s previous team and the circumstances surrounding those earlier performances.

    That information was more than applicable if not downright crucial to the issue.

    Simple to understand?

    Enjoy your day…dont get your knickers in a twist, it’s just a discussion.

    Peace


  20. Georgie Porgie ‘ do not care about the link between an East German coach and all that mumbo jumbo you quoted, and I don’t think that “strong circumstantial evidence is virtually convincing”.”

    What? You CANNOT be serious. Something absolutely critical to the specific case and you care not about it?

    Now, I KNOW that you are taking the …., as the English say.

    Peace


  21. Anonymous

    Anabolic steroids wont necessarily turn a woman into a man. It would depend on the dose, the dosing regime , and the rate at which the subject eliminates the drug via the liver and the kidney but there are disernable signs that a woman is using steroids.

    You may a good and interesting point though, because if the use of steroids did not make Marin Jones or Flo Jo look like men, why is it that Caster is supposedly taking steroids, and looks like a man?

    And why is it that all of a sudden her times have improved and she looks like a man?

    After all when Flo Jones’ times suddenly improved she did not look like a man?

    Now if I wanted to give my athlete steroids do you think that I would give her testosterone or any other anabolic steroids in high doses close to a race, so that when tested she would have high blood or urine levels?

    No I would use the concept of the half life of a drug (t1/2) in administering the hormones.

    Is this not what was done with Flo J o & Marion Jones?

    If so why would this European coach in SA not employ this ploy?

    I dont care if the girl used drugs or not. But I know that Ihave


  22. GP ”Even a moron can comprehend that. I have offered a correct alternative view for consideration”

    There you go again, what is it with some of these folks here and insults?

    Jeez.

    Peace


  23. Georgie Porgie’I dont care if the girl used drugs or not. But I know that I have’

    Oh, thanks. That explains it.

    Peace


  24. Anon, thank u for reminding me about Jones. I’d forgotten she’s out now and never appreciated she was from Belize – always believed she was a Yankee!! However, d question still remains of ‘what our boy’s doing wid she’?!! I reckon he’s served his purpose and she’ll soon dump e!! What do u think!!


  25. Rumple

    You obviously believe that the girl has been given drugs, and you are free to believe so. I do not care one way or the other.

    You believe that Flo Jo didnt die from the effect of drugs, you can believe that too.

    I repeat I do not care about the issues that mean so much to you….and I do understand them. But i dont care about them.

    But I do have the right to let people who want to hear something new that it is quite possible that the girl did not necessarily have to have taken testosterone to have high testerone levels. So my arguement is relevant.

    I have not proposed a theory as you said but a KNOWN Biochemical metabolic pathway. And I have presented my arguement simply in the way that a scientist woud do.

    If the girl did not take testeosterone, how is it possible that she could have high testosterone levels?

    You are committing the fallacy in your argument of not considering a reasonable alternative– fallacy of the unexcluded middle

    As far as you think, and you may be right, since the girl is associated with that evil European coach with a pass hisotry of doping she is guilty by association.

    I have not said that the lass HAS a specific problem. I said in very good English, that her high testosterone levels MIGHT BE DUE TO AN ENZYME DEFECT. Now I dont have to be correct, but I have done what doctors do every day … that is consider other diagnoses. It is called a differential diagnosis.

    At no time do you seem to have considered that this woman’s high testerone levels could be due to other than being given testorone. All I have asked the forum to consider is that testerone is made in the biodies of FEMALES on a daily basis after puberty!

    You obviously have a passion about doping and athletics. I dont!

    I am into Pathology, Biochemistry, Physiology & Pharmacology…….and my exp[osition on that is correct and relevant as far as I am concerned.

    I am not here top prove if the girl is guilty or not.

    In my original post I intimated clearly THIS GIRL CAN HAVE HIGH TESTOSTERONE LEVELS OF AN ENDOGENOUS RATHER THAN AN EXOGENOUS SOURCE. That is the plank on which I speak. And it can not be refuted!

    The key word in that sentence is CAN! And I have explained why this is so.


  26. Rumplestilskin // August 30, 2009 at 4:12 PM

    Georgie Porgie’I dont care if the girl used drugs or not. But I know that I have’

    Oh, thanks. That explains it.

    obviously Ididnt copy and paste my whole statement.

    I dont even drink alcohol.


  27. Rump, the problem is that Bajees r often insulting without even realising they’re being so! I wonder which is worse – the deliberate or the unintentional! I would feel an idiot if mine was unintended!!


  28. You can not refute any of the medical arguements that I bring, so you resort to ad hominems.

    You have READ about drugs, and doping and atheletics, I have read and taught Medicine.


  29. Here is the differential diagnosis for virilization of females

    Some of the possible causes of virilization in women are:

    Polycystic ovary syndrome
    Androgen-producing tumors of the
    ovaries
    adrenal glands
    pituitary gland

    Hypothyroidism

    Anabolic steroid exposure

    Congenital adrenal hyperplasia due to 21-hydroxylase deficiency (late-onset)

    Hormone replacement therapy (female-to-male)

    Virilization of females due to problems with thier ovaries is not an uncommon cause.


  30. Causes of Raised testosterone levels in a female

    1. 3-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase deficiency
    2. Cushing’s syndrome
    3. Phenytoin – Teratogenic Agent
    4. Polycystic ovary syndrome

    NOTE THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE! A HORMONE DEFICIENCY!


  31. What Causes High Testosterone in Women?

    High testosterone in women can be caused by a variety of diseases and conditions.

    High testosterone is an aspect of androgen disorders.

    Testosterone is the hormone that makes men masculine, so it brings many undesired results to both a woman’s appearance and health.

    Symptoms
    1.High testosterone symptoms include hair loss,
    hirsutism,
    unexplained rapid weight gain, virilization,
    acne,
    aggressiveness and irritability and missed menstrual cycles.
    Decreased breast size and a deepening of the voice will occur along with a coarsening of the skin.

    Hormonal Imbalances
    2.The main causes of high testosterone in females are hormonal imbalances that can happen at any age, and often sneak up gradually, with the 30s being the predominant time for things to get worse.

    Common Testosterone Increasing Diseases
    3.Adrenal gland disorders and ovarian problems, often caused by other hormonal imbalances, create an over-abundance of testosterone.

    The most common, testosterone increasing disease is Polycystic Ovarian Syndromes, which causes high testosterone. Diabetes can also lead to these endocrine upsets.

    Rarer Disorders That Cause High Testosterone
    Acromegaly,
    Adrenal neoplasm disorders,
    Conn’s Syndrome,
    Cushings,
    Dwarfism,
    Gigantism,
    Multiple endocrine neoplasm 1 and 2, an androgen-producing adrenal or ovarian tumor,
    congenital adrenal hyperplasia and thyroid disorders in general can be some of the disorders that cause high testosterone in women.

    Medications That Cause High Testosterone
    5.Steroid abuse can increase testosterone unhealthily in women, but other medications have been linked to the disorder, as well. One notable example is Phenytoin–also known as Dilantin–a drug used to treat epilepsy.

    It is noteworthy, that THERE ARE MANY CAUSES OF HIGH TESTOSTERONE LEVELS BESIDE USING DRUGS.

    The Biochemical Pathway I alluded to, is of course common to all these conditions.

    Isn’t it good to know more than just about doping of athletes?

    Isn’t it good to have an open mind and learn more than what we read in the papers or see on tv?
    just


  32. @GP
    …take it easy my brother…
    If Bush tea did not know that you were still in the USA I would wonder if you are living in Barbados…..

    LOL ….ROTFL…DWL (deading wid laugh…)


  33. Bush Tea,

    I wonder why you find me a source of amusement.

    I sincerely hope that you might have learned something more than the idea that every woman who looks like a man is taking testosterone.

    I am sorry that I do not easily suffer fools gladly.

    Why are you laughing when all that I have said is sound and true?

    Am I wasting my time here on this blog?

    Or should I descend into gossip and other puerile chatter that often adorns these porticos?

    Is it now a crime in Barbados to KNOW, and to be able to articulate such knowledge and present factual information?

    Are you running me off the forum as I see that it is the desire and design to get rid of LIB?


  34. The policy of testing modern day athletes who win medals and other high achievements and keeping their samples for years after will go along way to cleaning up the sport, also bridging the gap between medical technology and the drug users.


  35. @GP
    on the contrary….
    You are a highly respected and knowledgeable member of the BU family….. We all KNOW that..

    It is funny however that you feel the need to remind (at length) -those who question any position that you take, of your esteemed status ….

    IT IS NOT NECESSARY GP.
    Just move on smartly! this is not a classroom and you are not LIB.

    …so far the only serious fault I detect in you relates to your unfortunate association with the place in Crumpton Street…LOL


  36. It is not as easy as that David. Different drugs will not “store” as others do, even if a frozen sample is taken.

    And the active metablite may not appear in the urine or stools or blood until a particular period. And which drug are you looking for? The old drugs that are known? Or newer modifications yet unknown to the doping agencies.

    If I wanted to enter you for a race on December 31, and I was giving you enhancing drugs, I would use my understanding of pharmackenits and pharmaodynamics to my advantage (what the drug does to the body, and what the body does to the drug.)

    Every drug has a half life, i.e the length of time it takes for the body to eliminate a drug. So if I give you a drug with a half life of 24 hours, after one day half of it would still be in your body. And half of that the next day and so on.

    So unless you are randomly tested, I can prepare you for an event months before, so that if tested around the event the drug would not be in your body.

    In addition I would need to know how the body eliminates the drug. By the liver? By the skin? By the kidneys? By the lungs?

    Does the body store the dug in the fat tissues etc. Sex, age are other parameters to be considered.

    The athletes like JOnes and Flo Jo who seemed to have fooled the authorities were probably handled by doctors who used thier pharmacology knowledge in the way I have just expounded.

    Now some medical illiterate will now come and want to challenge such sound science, and make it possible for BT to find me to be a laughing stock, when my only desire is to bring a certain level of expertise to bear on the discussion.

    All the media, and all the world can only sing one song. Woman look like man therefore she is man or she is taking testosterone.

    I am saying that PERHAPS she has any one of a list of issues that can also cause elevated testosterone levels. wjackass

    Now if this girl in dispute suddenly got faster, and has high testosterone levels, ought of whack with the levels of her other steroids in thebody including her cholesterol levels, we might think differently.

    Might it not be reasonable to view photos of her morphology or phenotype from before, and over a period of time?

    Are they any photos of her in her defvelopment? Has she suddenly started looking like a man, and is this a feature of sudden onset along with her sudden increae in speed or endurance.

    There is so many other questions that one can ask.

    I hope that you can pick sense in my discourse, and understand something.


  37. Bush Tea

    I keep on telling you that my association with the place in Crumpton Street was not something that I desired or sought . Its like Phil 2 when It says that Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with God or he thought it “not a thing to be grasped”

    I did not think going to KOLIJ a thing to be grasped. I was sent, and I went.

    BT I think that it is important for the BU family to be well educated—those whose heads are not to hard to learn. To me BU is a classroom. In some online courses a forum like BU is called a DISCUSSION BOARD AND IS A GOOD PART OF THE STUDENTS GRADE. I regard my contributions to BU seriously. And I have been taught by my father to try to excel, and I have and am still trying. But it is a thing scoffed at in this day, apparently.

    Be good my man.
    .

  38. Gear Box Pretending to be LIB Avatar
    Gear Box Pretending to be LIB

    Ban know it all Rumplestilskin and know it all Georgie fah hoggin’ up de show ………!
    AAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhhhh


  39. Bush Tea wrote on // August 30, 2009 at 7:49 PM…”If Bush tea did not know that you were still in the USA I would wonder if you are living in Barbados…”

    But we all know that Georgie Porgie has never lived in the USA. We know that he has spent his whole life right here in Barbados, except for the time spent at Mona.


  40. GP, can you expIain to Anonymous how a human heamaphrodite can reproduce?


  41. Folks, ‘when the girls came out to play’, what did Georgie Porgie (above) do?!! Jes remind me!!

    Laaaaaaaadddddddddddddddd!!


  42. It is “interesting” not sad – I use the word on purpose – to see people I do not know, but yet consider friends, engaging in a little spat. As one expects on BU (Barbados Underground) , contributors holding their own with free license to do so. On BU opinions are held and defended with some vigour. An opinion held and delivered here to the BU family is often not the opinion of the “entire family” – scientific ones cannot be reasonably challenged but with science – but is accorded a freedom not known in other “houses.” Those opinions that tease out the science, are also welcomed for what they impart.

    When this spat is over, esteemed colleagues will have their integrity intact, knowledge delivered digested and stored for future reference.

    We are a family! are we not? We get annoyed but we are family, long may that be the case.

    There was no malicious or vindictive intent in the discourse, that is important, we are family.

    In some families they seek to “hurt” others to prove how kind they are…but commonsense and fairness always prevails in the end; sometimes it takes time in its coming but that often strengthens its “durabiity”…BU be there for the long haul.


  43. “durability”


  44. only women bleed


  45. @ GP
    “I keep on telling you that my association with the place in Crumpton Street was not something that I desired or sought ”
    ***************************************
    …OK GP, say it in simple terms – AS MAN!

    …yuh did really want to go to Cawmere and even today, 30+ years on, you still feel the pain…..

    AAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhh…


  46. GP
    can you explain how (or if) a human hermaphrodite can reproduce?


  47. I am going to wait for the complete test results. While I do believe that there is sufficient evidence in many sport disciplines to suggest that there is a willingness to change the rules of play to disadvantage people of color and advantage whites, I cannot suggest that this phenomenon is at work with this South African athlete. I cannot with good conscience say that this girl’s built, voice, mannerism, would not lead me to question if she should be allowed to run in female races.

  48. BRAIN POWER (BP) Avatar
    BRAIN POWER (BP)

    GEORGIE PORGIE WINS THE

    ARGUMENT

    RUMPLE LOSES THE ARGUMENT

    CASE CLOSED.

    GEORGIE PORGIE -how about a name change ?

    Rumple seems to think you are a joker but he is obviously wrong.


  49. grey area in between

    well she’s definitely a woman
    and should run in women’s races

    if she has some masculine traces
    she can also compete in men’s races


  50. Bush Tea
    Re OK GP, say it in simple terms – AS MAN!
    …yuh did really want to go to Cawmere and even today, 30+ years on, you still feel the pain…..
    AAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhh…

    LOL LOL Its too late now at any rate isn’t it?

    Brother man, as a Christ Church man I was already installed at the Christ Church Boy’s Foundation School in 1962 when we were made to participate in the first
    two part “Screening Test” as the Common Entrance exam was then called.

    Living all around were boys and girls who attended the Christ Church Foundation Schools, so I was content to be at Foundation.

    However, my two very best friends between age 7 and 20 (both now unfortunately deceased) were Combermerians.

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