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The Mark Of The Beast, The Coming Of The Anti-Christ,The Dead Sea Scrolls

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Mark of the Beast
Mark of the Beast

It is no secret that there is a constituency which dwells in the Barbados Underground who enjoys a robust religious debate. In recent times there has been rich discussion about the Jewish Talmud, The Promises of God and currently The Bible And The Qur’an, Brothers Kept Apart. This group is comprised of Atheists, Agnostics, Christians andย  others, we even noticed the description Apathiest.

Surprisingly to the BU household the religious conversation has attracted a healthy following based on what we see from back here. We hope that we are not twisting any arms but there are some Christian events which require clarification.

  • The BU household wishes to ask our religious luminaries to explain how they perceive revelations linked toย  the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls can potentially reshape religion as we know it.
  • Explain the Mark of the Beast and the much discussed the coming of the Anti-Christ.

Attached is a Power Point Presentation which has been in circulation for sometime which some believe is the Mark of the Beast exposed!

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820 responses to “The Mark Of The Beast, The Coming Of The Anti-Christ,The Dead Sea Scrolls”

  1. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    @GP………When did sin come into the picture? Did it come before christianity or after? And explain exactly what is this SIN….your own interpretation because

    I say that the only sin is that of IGNORANCE!

  2. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Great exposition Zoe!

    Why dont you brake it down (pun intended) further so that I and others who attended free secondary school in Barbados can understand, or dont you understand what you are saying to do so?

  3. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Ready Done

    You seem to know a little about aquaponics STICK TO THAT!

    I should brake down what long post into MY OWN WORDS? Why? Didnโ€™t you go to secondary school? Why cant you understand SIMPLE SIMPLE ENGLISH WORDS?
    Donโ€™t you have a book called A DICTIONARY?

    You would understand at least some of what I wrote if you tried. Then if you failed so to do, and you really wanted to understand more you would ask questions.

    How come you understand aquaponics? You are interested in aquaponics.

    Re BUT then again YOU would got to understand it to be able to put it in your own words.

    Donโ€™t think that because you didnโ€™t understand that I donโ€™t understand it Sir! Actually I UNDERSTOOD IT SO WELL THAT I WAS ABLE TO SIMPLY IT GREATLY FROM THE ORIGINAL.

    One of the things I have found in life in studying anything whether Bible or Medicine…………you dont ever get any thing ready done! You got to work at it.

  4. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    NatiLaughAtDumbChristains

    I am sure that you KNOW that many Bajans discuss the Bible in all sorts of places in our country , including especially RUM SHOPS!

    Some of the best hymn singing I have ever heard was in a rum shop my parents owned back in the early 60โ€™s!

    Hopi

    Re When did sin come into the picture? Take you choice read about it in Genesis 3 and Isaiah 14 I think it is.

    Sin preceded Christianity by ages since Christianity came after Christ.

    Zoe has just quoted the Scriptural definitions of sin. I agree with his post.

    I prefer you follow the Scriptural definitions than my interpretationโ€ฆ.

  5. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Yes, IGNORANCE, is the state and condition of many in the world, meaning lacking true knowledge and understand vis-a-vis any particular subject matter.

    Truth is based on understanding, knowledge, and intellect’s assent to truth. Thus, truth is grounded in intentionality.

    But, many have had the opportunity to hear and learn, ‘truth’ based on factual evidence, confirmed by historic, legal varacity, and still remain by ‘choice’ volitionally in IGNORANCE, this is SIN!

    “To say of what IS, that it IS, OR of what is NOT that it is NOT, is true.”
    Aristotle, Metaphysics, 1077b-26.

    “A proposition of fact is proved when its truth is established by competent and satisfactory evidence.” (Simon Greenleaf- Testimony of the Evangelists…rule in municiple law).

    Can you imagine taking three or four men/women of the street corner, or even from within an executive boardroom, who have NO training at all in jurisprudence, and replacing our learned High Court Justices, with them, to hear serious legal matters, and render competent judgements on such matters?

    Or, for that matter, in an operating theatre at the QEH, what a fiasco that would be!

    Enough said!

  6. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    @Zoe wasn’t Adam punished from eating of the tree of knowledge? if that was so wouldn’t that in fact be the first sin?

    How comes you talking bout things that happen before he actually did eat the fruit?

    Could it be that MANS definition and GODS definition for sin is different?

    About children and the apparent sin like tendencies, it simple every action is learn t, children are simply displaying behaviors they saw before.

    I only saying that a blog is a place designed for personal discussion more so than lectures.

  7. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Ready-Done

    Read the text again and you will see that Adam WAS NOT punished for eating of the tree of knowledge?

    Re Could it be that MANS definition and GODS definition for sin is different?
    You bet there are! What guess what? God does not care very much about MANS definition of sin, does he?

    Re How comes you talking bout things that happen before he actually did eat the fruit?

    Read what Zoe said again and you will see that he is not that dense to speak of things that happen before Adam actually did eat the fruit.

    Re About children and the apparent sin like tendencies, it simple every action is learn t, children are simply displaying behaviors they saw before.

    That is simply not true from the research done in this area.

    Re I only saying that a blog is a place designed for personal discussion more so than lectures.
    Who made that rule?

    Folk can learn from lectures and from personal discussion if the persons doing the discussion know what they are talking about.

    I have listened to rummies on my fatherโ€™s porch talk a load of nonsense about the Bible on Sundayโ€™s after church. They go sing in the choir on Sundays , and then come and drink rum and talk a load of bull about lots of stuff that none of them know anything about, as most Bajans do.

    They were having personal duscussions too, but NONE of them had read ANYTHING or STUDIED ANYTHING CONCERNING WHAT THEY WERE DISCUSSING. Such discussion is pointless and hot air!

    If you dont like lectures omit them or dont attend them………but then go and study the subject matter for yourself elsewhere. LOL

  8. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    I prefer my information direct form a knowledgeable source. Whither reading or face to face.

    I going to ask again How could a perfect being make an imperfect one?

    I get most of my inspiration form John Locke, David Hume, and Sigman frued, the boys on the block, the men in the rum shop, and the nuff nuff women that pass through my life. But most of all from personal observation of the laws of nature. I believe these are the best teachers one can have.

    Sigmund the father of psychoanalytics say that we learn every thing, Locke believed nothing was innate.

    before we go any further we must recognize that as MAN we can only know so much, we can never know why we were made because then we would be better than the maker. we can only figher out what we are, never why we were made.

  9. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Re I prefer my information direct form a knowledgeable source. Whither reading or face to face. GREAT THEN ON BU BLOGS ON BIBLE YOU HAVE TWO SUCH SOURCES LOL

    I going to ask again How could a perfect being make an imperfect one?

    Actually when God made man he was GOOD!…………but that was before the entry of sin!

  10. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    You saying god the all creator did not make sin? or he dident know that man would have turn to sin?

  11. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @Zoe

    “Yes, IGNORANCE, is the state and condition of many in the world…”

    Of course you are no exception and is a perfect example of those kinds of people in the world. As a matter of fact, all christians are in that boat.

  12. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @GP

    You really have nothing better to do than to poke fun at people’s intelligence. You fit right into Zoe’s exposition:

    “Yes, IGNORANCE, is the state and condition of many in the world…”

    Don’t mind them, Ready Done, You mesmerising a Barbados Scholar and the only way he trying to get around you is by ridicule… but let he know he ridiculing himself… and continue to press him to keep it short and simple. Other Barbados Scholars on here don’t read him so I do not know who he and Zoe are writing for.

  13. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @ Ready-Done

    “You saying god the all creator did not make sin? or he dident know that man would have turn to sin?”

    Powerful question. Keep it up. He can’t answer without a mile of script so that by the time you done read at the bottom, you forget what was at the top of the post. You know what that type of answer means?

    It means no answer at all. He has to concoct all kinds of reasons for his answer but we will be monitoring he to see how he deals with you. We ain’t going to let he get no foolishness past you.

  14. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @GP

    “Actually when God made man he was GOOD!โ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆbut that was before the entry of sin!”

    You tell that to primary school children. Excuse my expression, but only an ASS would believe that an all-knowing, all-powerful god who you claim to be the Creator, created everything but sin… your head in the sand…

    but let me tell you something, if your god did not create sin, then your god is not the Creator because the Creator created everything. Signed and sealed…

    or maybe you think that man is a creator too and created sin? The truth is your god has no power to create, does he?

  15. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @GP

    “Read the text again and you will see that Adam WAS NOT punished for eating of the tree of knowledge?”

    Well! Well! Well! Is that not why man has to eat by the sweat of his brow? Is that not why man was refused the tree of life? Is that not why the serpent goeth upon his belly?

    Not only man get punished in that wrath but the serpent too… or are you going to re-write the bible now?

  16. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Ready Done

    I invite you to listen to Adrian Rogers on James 1:13 on The Anatomy of a Sin

    http://www.oneplace.com/Ministries/Love_Worth_Finding/archives.asp?bcd=6/5/2009

    You see I know whom I have believed, and what I believe.
    Best Wishes

  17. Annonymous Avatar
    Annonymous

    Rok
    Can you answer any of these questions for me?
    You are so very smart, I think.
    1. Who are the Sons of God and daughters of men in Gen 6th chapter in that age?
    2. In Noah’s age only the 8 believers are there, so to whom Moses was referring as the Sons of God.
    3. Sons of God married daughters of men,who are they?
    4. Only eight were saved from Noah’s family,so who are these Sons of God referring to?
    5. Who are the Nephilim? Are they borne by sons of God and daughters of men?

    Grateful for your assistance.

  18. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @ Anonymous,

    See the Nephilim Clip:

  19. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Anonymous

    I think it is you who are smart but I will answer you according to the evidence I have seen.

    Before I do, I think we have to understand that while the bible is a lie by its very nature, there is some historical truth, albeit misplaced, in the bible, which formed part of the so-called “mythology” coming from the Egyptians and the Sumerians; later the Pagans, which told or tells of the “religious” experiences of these.

    “1. Who are the Sons of God and daughters of men in Gen 6th chapter in that age?”

    The Sons of God refers to the race which dominated the earth at the time and which held their leader up as a God. The Sons of God were the male of the race which “made” man. We are a genetic experiment and as the story goes, the experiment looked good but the children coming from the experiment were like freaks.

    The most important part of that story is the fact that these “Sons of God” had such an influence and power over Human beings that they simply picked the ones they liked; whether it was somebody’s wife or daughter and that man or parent simply had to humble. That is part of the reality of who and what this god of the bible is and which is why I keep calling for a definition of god.

    Moses was referring to the Anunnaki, the race of people whose leader was referred to as God. I understand that there are several species of them but one of the species looks like us. Remember, God said, let us make man in our image and in our likeness. Note also though that it is not a case of God making man from scratch but a modification of Homo Erectus or one preceding erectus. Check the language, Let us make man in our own image”; Man was already there. Take a peek at the hindu scriptures; I think they called him the Monkey God (common name). He exterminated an entire city that offended his master. He was later idolised as a God, but he seemed to be what man looked like before the genetic experiment that started with Adam.

    Once they were satisfied with the genetic experiment they proceeded to eradicate any threat to man, giving man control (dominion) of the earth.

    Therefore all of the children produced from the union of man and anunnaki were destroyed. These were called the Nephilim. The dinosaur was about the first to be annihilated, as they also posed a serious danger to the safety of the gods too. These animals were powerful and huge. I am going to try to post a google video of some of the evidence of the existence of these Nephilim; next post.

  20. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @ Anonymous

    See URL:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8534397625940239162

  21. Thanatos Avatar
    Thanatos

    Rok, What is the logical basis in historic evidence and fact, supporting your theory on these Sons of God?

    Also, what and where is the evidence of your contention that the Bible is a lie?

    How are we suppose to evaluate two competing arguments, without some basis in logical, historic fact and evidence?

    From what I have heard, read, and checked out so far, it seems that the Bible has passed the test of historic evidence, logic, and reason; whereas, these other sources that you refer to are all largely mythological?

    We can’t have it both ways, it is either/or, and the same critical standards used to determine if other ancient historic documents are reliable, from secular writers, have been used to evaluate the Biblical documents, and from what research I’ve done, the Biblical documents, are way ahead of all other ancients documents in passing all of the test.

    Are you saying then, that all of these wide variety of highly trained men/women, who painstakingly examine ancients documents are all liars?

  22. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    “Are you saying then, that all of these wide variety of highly trained men/women, who painstakingly examine ancients documents are all liars?” YES, YES & YES…..LIARS of the highest order.
    Such damn good liars that they have most of my racial group giving their power to a god that looks and thinks like the LIARS!DAMN!

  23. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @Thanatos

    “From what I have heard, read, and checked out so far, it seems that the
    Bible has passed the test of historic evidence, logic, and reason;
    whereas, these other sources that you refer to are all largely
    mythological?”

    and exactly where did you find the evidence that the bible passed the test? You are trying to press me for evidence and your only evidence is belief. I would have to be a madman to comply with your request.

    “Mythological”? That is the problem. You take a legitimate set of historical facts, label them as mythological and label your mythology as historical. Who you think you fooling.

    What you calling mythology are living facts that men lived and breathed. You take a bible coming after all of that, which is designed to win a politrical battle for the minds of men, in the name of power, wealth and corruption, to lead mankind away from his genuine experience into a fairy tale world.

    Now you have absolutely no proof of anything in the bible but you believe it so strongly that you asking for facts about facts. If you really have proof of anything in the Bible, I want you t6o answer the following questions:

    1. Do you have any records of Moses living in any Pharaoh’s court/palace?
    2. Is there any evidence that Joseph was of very high office in Pharaoh’s court? Some document he signed, some reference to him in Egyptian records.
    3. Are there any records of Christ in Roman History? This is a man that had a profound effect on the Roman Empire, surely, there should be some record of his charges, his sentence, something in the Roman records?

    If you could at least show me the evidence of these things you calling historical facts, I will gladly show you my evidence. Otherwise, ma boy, as your GP would say, Later for you.

  24. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @Thanatos

    I hope that you understand that proof of the lie is the fact that you cannot find any evidence to prove any of the questions above.

    I rest my case.

  25. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    Until people learn to trust them self and not a book they will be slaves to who ever controls the book. One should note that according to the bible God used to frequent the earth but he stopped after the bible books began to be written.

    @Georgie Porgie, i wan to hear from you!
    There are other things i want to discuss about the bible, i want to pick it down and put it back up, maybe then i could be satisfied enough to step back into a church.

  26. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    In previous threads months ago, Carlos dealt with the ‘redherrings’ you are seeking to reimpose on this thread; the preponderance of facts and evidence, historically, can be denied, scoffed at, ridiculed, BUT, cannot be refuted.

    Hopi, you can call the amazing collection of scholarly examiniation of the Biblical documents, liars, BUT, it still remains factual, sound, logical, and the burden of proof to the contrary remains on YOU; which you simply cannot refute, by just sayings liars; any yo-yo, can make that accusation, PROVE IT, PROVE IT, not with malicious LIES, redherrings, and stawmen, PROVE IT FALSE. Where is the evidence to confute, the historic reality of hundreds of prophetic declarations from the Old Testament, literally fulfilled in the birth, life, ministry, Resurrection, and ascension of The Lord Jesus Christ, with vast multitudes, multiplied Millions, over the last 2000 years, from every nation on earth, resolutely, by living testimony of utterly transformed lives, from ‘within’ exactly as Jesus said it would happen, and continuing right up until today, across the earth, exactly as He said it would happen, with BLACKS all across Africa, Russia, China, the Middle East, all across South America, with over 25 Million new Born Again believers, each and every years, jumping for JOY, PEACE, PURPOSE, that they NEVER had before, UNTIL, by faith, coming to JESUS CHRIST, as their Personal Saviour and Lord, being LIBERATED from so many different kinds of Bondage, False religion, idolatry, secular materialism, etc, etc, ALL converging with the same living TESTIMONY, to the reality, of the transforming POWER of Christ, in their hearts and lives.

    All of those idolatrous, mythological, civilizations, ALL came crashing down, paganistic bondage, to Satanic deceptions.

    The Lord Jesus Christ, said, “…I will build My Church, and the gates of Hades (Hell) SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT.” (Matt. 16: 18b).

    You can Huff, Puff, scream, spit fire out of your mouth against His Church, turn ‘blue’ in your face, IT WON’T WORK, CAN’T WORK, WILL NEVER WORK, as you will DIE in your SIN, attempting your raging FOLLY, FOOLISHENESS, and IGNORANCE!

  27. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Ready-Done

    Re Until people learn to trust them self and not a book they will be slaves to who ever controls the book.

    Can you really trust yourself Ready done? Have you not reacted in ways to situations where you swore that you would never behave in that way?

    Have you ever done things you know you ought not to have done, or said things you knew you ought not to have said, and then regretted it afterwards?

    Does the Bible not teach that โ€œthe heart is deceitful above all things, who can know it? Does this not suggest that none of us know even our own hearts?

    Is this why we commit sins of omission and sins of commission?

    Does not Paul address this issue in Romans 7 where he asserted that he had a struggle in doing things which he ought not to have done, and not doing things that he ought?

    My experience with people who believe the Bible is that they are not slaves to the โ€œbookโ€ at all. All people in the world are slaves to sin according to Jesus teaching in John 8.

    Like Paul, Christians are engaged in the personal battle to chose right over wrong. The fact that such a battle exists indicates that they are not enslaved by the Bible. If they were enslaved, they would all be perfectly obedient at all times. Clearly, we are not!

    Re
    One should note that according to the bible God used to frequent the earth but he stopped after the bible books began to be written.

    When I read this sentence, I thought immediately of Hebrews 1:1 which encompasses your thought. Hebrews 1:1 reads thus

    God, who at sundry times and in divers [diverse] manners spake in time pass unto the fathers by the prophets

    It is most notable that this verse and this book begin with the word God. In the Book of Hebrews, as in the Book of Genesis, no attempt is made to prove Godโ€™s existence. Both books assume that there is a God. The Bible makes no effort to try to prove the existence of God.

    The second assumption we find in Hebrews 1:1 is that God has spoken or revealed Himself to mankind via the divinely inspired Word of God.The revelation to which he refers is the revelation of the Old Testament as we have it today.

    The word for โ€œsundry timesโ€ in the Greek is polumeroยตs. It is used to emphasize the fact that God added to His revealed truth as He dealt with different men over a period of time. This verse streeses that there is a development of the truth in the Bible.

    The word for โ€œDivers [diverse] manners is polutropoยตs!โ€ means that God used different ways of communicating. His ways included supernatural interventions into history as well as natural phenomena such as storms, plagues, and other historical events.

    He spoke through dreams, He spoke through the Law, He spoke through the types, He spoke through ritual, He spoke through history, He spoke through poetry, and He spoke through prophecy. His ways also included people, namely, the prophets, through whom He spoke (cf. 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Pet. 1:21). He used all these different ways over a long period of time, using about forty-five writers and communicating His Word over a period of about fifteen hundred years. God used many, human writers with different backgrounds and different abilities to give us the Old Testament as we have it today

    Re There are other things i want to discuss about the bible, i want to pick it down and put it back up, maybe then i could be satisfied enough to step back into a church.

    LOL . I am sure that a sincere attempt on your part to understand the Bible will have a most positive result for you , just as it has for many former atheists, skeptics and agnostics (not that I am accusing you of being any of these.)

  28. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    GP…..do you and Zoe sit side by side?

    I cant help noticing the timing of your posts…….just asking.

  29. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Technician

    No, we dont. I am overseas and I guess he is in Barbados.

    I have never met him either, actually.

    Sorry to dissapoint you.

  30. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    I never said there is no god, I KNOW there is.

    I never said the bible is a lie, Just that MAN’s interpretation has ulterior motives.

    The bible as we know it is a collection of books written by men during the span of 1500 years, so why did not all books found during that time put in the bible? why only the books we have present today? were all the rest inspired be the devil.

    What is the criteria for saying a book is inspired by God?

    What gives any man the authority to decide that a book is inspired be god?

    and What make you think that GOD spend 1500 years looking after we and giving instruction but he done now?
    If it is because he send Jesus that would make the new testament void, wouldn’t it?

    What is the defining point in time that we would know for sure god dun wid we. ‘his most love creation’ even above the angels in heaven where he lives.

    Why shouldent i trust my self? ‘ HIS most love creation’ even above the angels in heaven where he lives.

  31. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    @ Zoe this ent Carlos this is Ready-Done

  32. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    @Zoe……..the pot calling the kettle white. Just in case you don’t know, your christianity was borne out of our MYTHOLOGY! So go figure.

    But from the depths of my heart Zoe, and Massey’s pen,I dedicate this to you:

    “Begone, you foolish preachers!
    Howlers, snuffers, screechers!
    You miserable teachers!
    You god-of-blood beseechers!
    You forgers of God’s features!
    Who make us the devil’s creatures;
    Shut up, you foolish preachers!
    Get out, you hell-fire screechers,
    Go home, you played-out preachers!”

    Have yaself a lovely day, dawling!

  33. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    The uniqueness and God-breathed character of the ‘inspiration’ of the Bible is indicated in the ‘effect’ of its teachings upon the lives of those who have found “LIFE” in Christ, through its instrumentality, solely on the ground of of Jesus’ Atoning work on His cross at Calvary, to which it testifies.

    As Professor Orr says:

    “The simple fact that in this sacred volume, so marvellous in its own structure, so harmonious and complete in the view it gives of the dealings of Almighty God with man, so rich and exhaustless in its spiritual content, so filled with the manifest presence and power of the Spirit of Almighty God, we have everything we need to acquaint us fully with the mind and will of Almighty God for our Salvation, and to supply us for all the ends of our spiritual life, is sufficient evidence, that the revelation which God has given is, in every essential particular, purely and faithfully embodied in it.”

    Again, I say a resounding, resolute, YES, unified with my Brothers and Sisters, regardless of Colour, around the world, that WE can all TESTIFY to this FACT, that Almighty God, In Christ Jesus, through the Indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, according to His Word, the Bible, has PROVED to us, that He has done, and continues to DO, in our hearts and lives, ALL that He promised He would DO!

    You haters of Almighty God and Christ Jesus, YOU can never take away the reality of our TESTIMONY, that Jesus Christ, IS our living, Resurrected, Ascended, Saviour and Lord, for we KNOW, that we KNOW, in our ‘knower’ that HE IS ALIVE!!!

    For we are living PROOF of this reality!

  34. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    Not disappointed GP…..more like relief …LOL.

  35. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    On the question of WHO WERE THE NEPHILIM OR GIANTS

    First who the giants and nephilim are NOT!

    The origin and identity of the giants of Genesis 6:4 is one of the controversial topics in discussing both the book of Genesis, as well as in discussions on Jude verse 6.

    Many teachers and students of the Bible opine that the giants mentioned in Genesis 6:1-4, were the offspring resulting when fallen angels assumed human bodies, and cohabited with the daughters of men. They believe too that this is the specific sin of โ€œ the angels that kept not their first estate but left their own habitation โ€ as described in Jude 6.

    The opinion that the โ€œsons of Godโ€ were fallen angels, and the โ€œdaughters of menโ€ were humans just does not seem to make much Biblical sense. The Bible does not anywhere identify conclusively the specific sin referred to in Genesis 6 verse 2, or in Jude 6.

    That they are former angels which are now demons is clear from the events described in the gospels and the book of Acts, which describes the confrontation of them with Jesus and the apostles respectively. That there is another class of imprisoned angels is also clear from Jude verse 6.

    One can infer that these โ€œfallenโ€ angels were separated or differentiated by God for some good specific reason best known to him. In my view, however, the crime that has kept them in chains while other former angels are now free to rove as demons is not clearly described or discussed in the Bible; even though the event in Genesis 6 is often cited as the offence which caused the differentiation of the fallen angels into the free angels and the imprisoned angels. There is no clear Biblical warrant for this view.

    What is clear is that โ€œif these were good angels, they would not commit this sin. On the other hand, evil angels could not be designated sons of God, in my opinion. And then, the offspring here were men. They were not monstrosities.

    I do not know why it is assumed by so many that the offspring here were giants. Except of course that folk wont read the text correctly and follow proper Hermeneutics in their interpretation.

    It says there were giants in the earth in those days, but it doesn’t say they were the offspring of this union. It does say they were men of renown. They were not monstrosities, but they were men. It is clear that the text makes it very clear that the giants were in the earth before this took place.

    A sensible and sound opinion which is in harmony with other texts where this word is translated giant indicates that it simply means these were outstanding individuals.

    Much of the discussion in commentaries on this verse centers on whether angels could copulate with men and whether god or bad angels would so behave etc, but the identity and other features of the giants are not described . Among the arguments, however against angels being involved in originating the giants include the following.

    โ€œSince angels are spirits and do not have bodies, how could a spirit being have a physical relation with a woman, even if that being assumed a temporary body of some kind? And particularly when Jesus Christ himself specifically declared and taught that the angels cannot marry suggesting that they were asexual (Matt. 22:30, Mark 12:25)

    In the Old Testament record, there are instances where angels appeared in human form, but this was not incarnation. Moreover, angels do not appear in the first five chapters of the book, nor do they appear clearly in this context. And it is strange that judgment would fall on man alone for the sin committed when angels presumably bore the primary guilt.

    The bible clearly teaches that God sent the Flood because of what man did, not what angels did. “My spirit shall not always strive with man …. And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth…. And it repented [grieved] the Lord that He had made man on the earth” (Gen. 6:3, ). If this “fallen angel’ view is correct, God should have repented that He created the angels! Donโ€™t you think?

    โ€œGenesis 6:4 actually presents a strong argument against the view that fallen angels cohabited with women and produced a race of giants. For it states that “There were giants in the those days; and also after that’. This would indicate that -a second invasion of fallen angels had took place and we have no record of this in Scripture.

    Both Peter and Jude state clearly that these rebellious angels are chained in darkness and reserved for judgment. They would have to have invaded the earth prior to being arrested and chained by God. We wonder why God would have permitted them to “run loose’ long enough to get the women into sin and help to cause the great Flood.โ€ (Wiersbe )

    It is not possible to discover or be dogmatic about the specific sin referred to in Genesis 6verse 2 from the text. It may be that angels overstepped their bounds, or that men used no spiritual discrimination in choosing mates, or that polygamy was involved.

    What is clear to me, from the text, is that giants were present before the marriages mentioned took place, as well as after that, and that the offspring of unions mentioned in 4b were “mighty men,” strong in battle, and “men of renown,” known for their various talents. Coming in this context, reference must be to abilities that were misapplied for the corruption of society.

    Morris posits that the giants of Genesis 6:4 were the children of the unions of demonically controlled men and women of this period. He suggests that the Hebrew word nephilim which comes from the verb naphal (“fall”) should be rendered is “those who have fallen,” in reference probably to the nature of their pseudoparents, the fallen angels rather than “those who fall upon”-that is, “attackers”.

  36. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Technician, I confirm GP, I have never met him, we live thousands of mikes apart; but we are obviously led by the same Holy Spirit of God, interesting, isn’t it!

  37. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    On the question of WHO WERE THE NEPHILIM OR GIANTS

    Who the nephilim or giants were.

    The Hebrew noun, “Nephilim” translated giant, comes from a word “naphal” which signifies to fall and these might be so called, either because they made their fear to fall upon men, or men, through fear, to fall before them, because of their height and
    strength; or rather because they fell and rushed on men with great violence, and oppressed them in a cruel and tyrannical manner; or, as some think, because they fell off and were apostates from the true religion, which is much better than to understand them of apostate angels.

    My simple interpretation of the text is meant was that there were giants before and after the general defection to apostasy resulting from the admixture of the Cainites and Sethites ( i.e the offspring of the sons of God, or posterity of Seth, mixing with the daughters of men, or the posterity of Cain ).

    I support the view that in the midst of a rapid population explosion of that era, that the godly line of Seth or Sethites (“the sons of God”) took wives of the ungodly line of the daughters of men (or the Cainites),as they began to mingle with them. This resulted in the break down of the walls of separation, leading to compromise and eventually degrading sin, and that the offspring resulting from these unions of believers (the Sethites) with unbelievers (the Cainites) became mighty men in the sense that they were tall and strong, and had power and dominion, and were tyrants and oppressors. It is in this way that they were โ€œgiantsโ€, and โ€œmen of renownโ€.

    The Bible implies from an understanding of the preceding chapters; i.e 4 (which describes the Cainites) and chapter 5 (which describes the Sethites) that in the days before the sons of God (assumed to be the Sethites) took the daughters of men (assumed to be the Cainites) for wives and induced a general and universal declension in morals and apostasy that they were giants in the earth in those days, (and that these men seem to have to have been giants in wickedness as well as in physical characteristics.) The Bible does not however really say that these giants were begotten of the daughters of Cain by the children of Seth.

    What is clear is that some of the offspring resulting from these unions were afterwards spoken of, as โ€œmen of renownโ€, or “of name” ; meaning that their names were often made mention of, both for their size and for their wickedness. That is to say they were much talked of, and extolled for their wicked exploits

    They were thus both famous and infamous men; since some men get a name in the world, not for their goodness, but for their greatness, and sometimes for their great wickedness.

    The text certainly acknowledges the presence of giants before the sons of God caused daughters of men to bare children for them , some of whom were giants, but the term โ€œgiantsโ€ in Hebrew implies not so much the idea of great stature or that they were fallen angels , but more that they were fallen in their sins and attitudes of reckless ferocity, impious and daring characters, who spread devastation and carnage far and wide.

    This interpretation of that there were giants or mighty men in these early times is confirmed by the testimony of many Heathen
    writers. The Greek myths of heroes, born of unions between divine beings and human women, such as Hercules are no doubt echoes of these times and events. Such heroes known for both their bulky bodies and their invincible strength, and to dwell in cities with men of like size and great strength , and who were inventors of arms and music, cannibalistic, and exceedingly debauched.

    One author opines that โ€œ They were giants, and they were men of renown. With their great bulk, as the sons of Anak, (Num. 13: 33) and with their great name, as the king of Assyria ( Isa.37:11) these men made them the terror of the mighty in the land of the living; and, thus armed, they daringly insulted the rights of all their neighbours and trampled upon all that is just and sacred. Those that have so much power over others as to be able to oppress them have seldom so much power over themselves as not to oppress; great
    might is a very great snare to many. This degenerate race slighted the honour their ancestors had obtained by virtue and religion, and made themselves a great name by that which was the perpetual ruin of their good name.โ€

    What is very clear is that the demoniacal combination of the materialism and ungodliness of the Cainitic civilization in general, with this infusion of the Serpent’s seed directly into large numbers of the human race and then with the thrusting forth of hordes of the monstrous offspring of these unlawful unions, all led to conditions in the world which were finally intolerable even to a God of compassion and long-suffering.

    The demon-possessed men and their progeny, along with all the other godless inhabitants of the antediluvian world, were soon to perish in the waters of the Flood.

    I hope that these notes (though scholarly and lecture like… and even boring) bring more clarity to answering this question.

  38. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Hopi
    My first teacher of Homilectics (the art of preaching) condemned some preachers whom he said only had a whoop, a holler, a short story, and a poem.

    And so I have never followed this practice. However one day i will speak on the FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING taking my text from I Corinthians 1 ;23-24 and I will use this poem of yours to illustrate this Bible truth.
    Thank you!

  39. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Oh by the way on the subject of the nephilim once more

    Satan is an ingenious contriver of falsehoods, by which he would corrupt the truth of God, and in this manner render it suspect, the poets have invented many fables and myhs concerning the “giants” when a simple inductive exegesis of the Word of God usually brings much clarity!

  40. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    @GP…….Can you specifically identify those of the serpent seed?

  41. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    @ Annonymous, I hope that the following note answers your questions.

    1. Who are the Sons of God and daughters of men in Gen 6th chapter in that age?

    From reading Genesis chapter 4 and 5, it would seem reasonable to infer that the Sons of God were the descendants of Seth (the Sethites, described in chapter 5) and the daughters of men, the descendants of Cain (the Cainites, described in chapter 4). Note NOT the Caanites!

    2. In Noahโ€™s age only the 8 believers are there, so to whom Moses was referring as the Sons of God.
    4. Only eight were saved from Noahโ€™s family, so who are these Sons of God referring to?

    These are vague questions which both need clarification.

    3. Sons of God married daughters of men, who are they?
    Answered in #1 above.

    4. Only eight were saved from Noahโ€™s family,so who are these Sons of God referring to?

    5. Who are the Nephilim? Are they borne by sons of God and daughters of men?
    Answered in two posts above

  42. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Hopi
    You are an unreasonable umman you know. LOL

    You quoting poetry on BU and donโ€™t want me to use poetic license in my prose?

    In the piece I wrote โ€œthe serpentโ€™s seedโ€ refers of course to the influence of the devil…. as you well know.

    If you read 1 John 3 you will see that the believer is to act as if he really has been indued with the seed of God the Father in contrast to that of the serpent. This implication is suggested by the illustration that follows which contrasts Abel with Cain (note that a similar contrast is made in Jude and in Hebrews 11).

  43. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Ready-Done
    Re
    I never said there is no god, I KNOW there is.

    I KNOW THAT YOU KNOW THAT TRUTH JUST AS OTHERS HERE DO even some pretend not to LOL

    I never said the bible is a lie, Just that MANโ€™s interpretation has ulterior motives.

    THIS IS CERTAINLY SO IN SOME CASES THEY MISINTERPRET IT DELIBERATELY. Peter in 2 Peter 3 says that the โ€œWRESTโ€ the scriptures. Some add some subtract from what it says.
    IN OTHER CASES THEY MISINTERPRET IT INNOCENTLY BECAUSE THEY DONโ€™T STUDY IT PROPERLY

    The bible as we know it is a collection of books written by men during the span of 1500 years, so why did not all books found during that time put in the bible? why only the books we have present today? were all the rest inspired be the devil. What is the criteria for saying a book is inspired by God? What gives any man the authority to decide that a book is inspired be god?

    THIS IS A BIG SUBJECT CALLED CANONICITY. It has partially been addressed on this thread under mauscripts.

    RE and What make you think that GOD spend 1500 years looking after we and giving instruction but he done now?
    If it is because he send Jesus that would make the new testament void, wouldnโ€™t it? What is the defining point in time that we would know for sure god dun wid we.

    Answer:
    I am sorry if I gave you the understanding that God done wid we now by my post.

    Hebrews 1:1 does indeed teach that God no longer speaks to man in the many different ways like he did in the past, but verse 2 goes on to say that NOW HE SPEAKS T US BY HIS SON!

    We know from our study of the OT that God revealed himself at various times by several methods including supernatural interventions into history as well as natural phenomena such as storms, plagues, and other historical events. He spoke through dreams, He spoke through the Law, He spoke through the types, He spoke through ritual, He spoke through history, He spoke through poetry, and He spoke through prophecy. His ways also included people, namely, the prophets, through whom He spoke (cf. 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Pet. 1:21). He used all these different ways over a long period of time, using about forty-five writers and communicating His Word over a period of about fifteen hundred years. God used many, human writers with different backgrounds and different abilities to give us the Old Testament as we have it today

    BUT NOW HE DEALS WITH MEN ON A MORE INDIVIDUAL BASIS BY HIS SON THROUGH HIS HOLY SPIRIT. In fact God has a better way of dealing with men today. Perhaps Zoe can show you from Johnโ€™s gospel and the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, and the doctrine of adaption etc how God deals with believers today.

    Re Why shouldent i trust my self? โ€˜ HIS most love creationโ€™ even above the angels in heaven where he lives.

    I have already explained that to you Sir. And you know that you canโ€™t. You know too that you cant trust other men either. So do like the saints at Berea and search the scriptures for yourself to see if the answers I give you are correct! And whatever you do, donโ€™t give heed toseducing spirits! LOL.

  44. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    this is a repost because no body ent even attempt to answer, i first was talking to gorgy porgy but now i asking anyone.

    I never said there is no god, I KNOW there is.

    I never said the bible is a lie, Just that MANโ€™s interpretation has ulterior motives.

    The bible as we know it is a collection of books written by men during the span of 1500 years, so why did not all books found during that time put in the bible? why only the books we have present today? were all the rest inspired be the devil.

    What is the criteria for saying a book is inspired by God?

    What gives any man the authority to decide that a book is inspired be god?

    and What make you think that GOD spend 1500 years looking after we and giving instruction but he done now?
    If it is because he send Jesus that would make the new testament void, wouldnโ€™t it?

    What is the defining point in time that we would know for sure god dun wid we. โ€˜his most love creationโ€™ even above the angels in heaven where he lives.

    Why shouldent i trust my self? โ€˜ HIS most love creationโ€™ even above the angels in heaven where he lives.

  45. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    @GP………Ya got me dying! How can you call me unreasonable? Aren’t there some people on this planet today who manifest devil/evil, just by their action?

  46. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Hopi

    Of course you are correct that there are some people on this planet today who manifest devil/evil, just by their action.

    We cant deny that at all.

    You do notice that they have one on this forum that I ignore totally? Dont you? LOL

    I TRY, to always avoid the very appearance of evil , ma dear.

  47. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    Georgie Porgie you said some things that seems like they could pass, but what is your definition of a sprit?

  48. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    @GP…….We have some in public office too!

    And I know that you are no speaking of my soul-brother in this anti-christ fight! Say it ain’t so!

  49. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Regarding the Divine Inspiration of the Scriptures, the Bible; W.E. Vine offers the following comments.

    “Now in the first place the term ‘inspiration’ is no where in Scripture applied to the writers of its contents. Inspiration is predicated of the Scriptures themselves. The actual term which the Apostle Paul uses to declare the fact is ‘theopneustos’ which signifies “God-breathed” (2 Tim. 3:16).

    “The absence, then, of any statement that the writers were inspired, precludes any appeal to Scripture as the basis of a comparison between them and other authors in this respect.”

    The Apostle Peter states that:

    “No prophecy of Scripture is of private interpretation ( the word rendered ‘prophecy’ does not denote prediction of future events, it signifies the telling forth of the mind of God, and applies, therefore, to all that which constitutes the Word of God), for no prophecy ever came by the will of man; but holy men spake from God, being moved ( Literally, ‘born along’), by the Holy Spirit” (2 Peter 1:21).

    In other words, none of the writers, whom Almighty God used in conveying His eternal Word through, as they were moved, ‘born along’ by the Holy Spirit, would have known, by natural reason, any of the Divine insight, which they were given, had they not being Inspired by the Holy Spirit. This is essentially what makes the Bible absolutely unique in its content.

    But, the question still remains whether the evidence of the writings of Scripturew themselves forbid the comparison. It is a simple matter to put to the test.

    A vary large proportion of the Bible is, for instance, prefaced in one place or another, by, “Thus saith the Lord,” “Hear the word of the Lord,” and similar phrases, and the contents which follow vindicate the validity of the declaration.

    Jeremiah alone says nearly 100 times, ” The Word of the Lord came unto me.” Some 60 times Ezekiel says his writings are “the words of God.” In the small compass of the four brief chapters of the last book of the Old Testament, “Thus said the Lord,” occurs 24 times. More than 2,000 times in one way or the other, the Scriptures declare that they are the Word of God. Scores of other similar testimonies might be enumerated from the writers of the sacred volume. Isaiah says, e.g., in reference to his message, “The Word of our God shall stand for ever” ( Isa. 40:8). Jeremiah says, “Is not My Word as fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?” ( Jer. 23: 29).

    Which of the greatest writers of secular literature, could have attached a “Thus saith the Lord” to their subject matter? And in the realm of religious literatue, if the greatest theologians had ventured to make such a declaration, it would have discredited them, and the value of their writings immediately!

    The authority displayed by the writers of Scripture is absolutely unique. The Apostle Paul after declaring the impossibility for the subjects of Divine revelation to be discoverable by natural powers, and the necessity for the operation of the Spirit of God in making them known, says:

    “Which things also we speak, NOT in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, BUT which the Holy Spirit teacheth” ( I Cor. 2: 13).

    So that the apostle’s writings are not merely an expression of his views, they consist of “words which the Spirit teacheth.” They come, therefore, with the same Divine authority as the words of Christ Himself. And this is the fulfillment of the promise given by Christ to His disciples:

    “Howbeit, when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He shall guide you into ALL the truth; for He shall not speak from Himself; but what things soever He shall hear, these shall He speak” ( John 16: 13).

    The inspiration of the human genius is simply a natural qualification. However, the writers of Scripture were endued with the power of God, the Spirit of God, so acting that while the intelligent faculties and the character and the dispositions of the writers were brought into co-operation, imparting their individuual style to their writings, yet, the words they used, though in a sense their own, they were nevertheless, “God-breathed” ‘theopneustos’. Their language was thus fitted by Him for His own purposes. The personality of the writers was not indeed eliminated, nor was their individual consciousness suspended, BUT, all was under the control of the Holy Spirit.

    Since it is the Scriptures themselves that are ‘God-breathed’ inspiration, in that sense of the term , attaches to the very form of the statements that were given by God. In the communications of the thoughts of God, the phraseology employed cannot be divorced from the very essence and content of the sentiments expressed.

    With the Lord and His apostles, the one court of appeal was what is written in the Scripture. Take, for instance, the first recorded utterance of the Lord Jesus Christ in reference to it. Jesus meets the attack of His adversary, Satan, by a thrice reapeated:

    “It is WRITTEN,” each time quoting from the book of Deuteronomy ( Matt. 4: 4, 7, 10). Both Christ and Satan regarded the declaration of Scripture as providing an irrefutable authority, and reply to any challenge or suggestion. There was no question whatsoever on the part of either Christ or Satan, of the appeal from that absolute authority, God’ Word!

  50. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Ready Done

    Thanks for giving me at least a bare pass.

    Take your pick from these definitions of spirit. Hope this is comprehensive enough.

    The English word “spirit” has many differing meanings and connotations, but commonly refers to a supernatural being or essence โ€” transcendent and therefore metaphysical in its nature: the Concise Oxford Dictionary defines it as “the non-physical part of a person”.

    For many people, however, spirit, like soul, forms a natural part of a being: such people may identify spirit with mind, or with consciousness, or with the brain.

    The English word “spirit” comes from the Latin spiritus, meaning “breath”, from spirare to blow, breathe but also “soul, courage, vigor).

    In the Vulgate, the Latin word translates Greek (pneuma) and the Hebrew ruah), as opposed to Latin anima, translating Greek psykhฤ“.

    The distinction between soul and spirit developed in Judeo-Christian terminology (thus we find Greek psykhe as opposed to pneuma, Latin anima as opposed to spiritus, Hebrew ruach as opposed to neshama or nephesh; in Hebrew neshama comes from the root NShM or “breath”).

    1: an animating or vital principle held to give life to physical organisms

    2: a supernatural being or essence: as acapitalized : HOLY SPIRIT
    b: SOUL 2a
    c: an often malevolent being that is bodiless but can become visible ; specifically : GHOST 2
    d: a malevolent being that enters and possesses a human being

    3: temper or disposition of mind or outlook especially when vigorous or animated

    4: the immaterial intelligent or sentient part of a person

    5 a: the activating or essential principle influencing a person b: an inclination, impulse, or tendency of a specified kind : MOOD

    6 a: a special attitude or frame of mind b: the feeling, quality, or disposition characterizing something

    7: a lively or brisk quality in a person or a person’s actions

    8: a person having a character or disposition of a specified nature

    9: a mental disposition characterized by firmness or assertiveness

    10 a: DISTILLATE 1: as (1): the liquid containing ethanol and water that is distilled from an alcoholic liquid or mash โ€”often used in plural (2): any of various volatile liquids obtained by distillation or cracking (as of petroleum, shale, or wood) โ€”often used in plural b: a usually volatile organic solvent (as an alcohol, ester, or hydrocarbon)

    11 a: prevailing tone or tendency b: general intent or real meaning

    12: an alcoholic solution of a volatile substance

    13: enthusiastic loyalty

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