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The Mark Of The Beast, The Coming Of The Anti-Christ,The Dead Sea Scrolls

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Mark of the Beast
Mark of the Beast

It is no secret that there is a constituency which dwells in the Barbados Underground who enjoys a robust religious debate. In recent times there has been rich discussion about the Jewish Talmud, The Promises of God and currently The Bible And The Qur’an, Brothers Kept Apart. This group is comprised of Atheists, Agnostics, Christians and  others, we even noticed the description Apathiest.

Surprisingly to the BU household the religious conversation has attracted a healthy following based on what we see from back here. We hope that we are not twisting any arms but there are some Christian events which require clarification.

  • The BU household wishes to ask our religious luminaries to explain how they perceive revelations linked to  the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls can potentially reshape religion as we know it.
  • Explain the Mark of the Beast and the much discussed the coming of the Anti-Christ.

Attached is a Power Point Presentation which has been in circulation for sometime which some believe is the Mark of the Beast exposed!

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820 responses to “The Mark Of The Beast, The Coming Of The Anti-Christ,The Dead Sea Scrolls”

  1. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Like any serious academic discipline, Medicine, Law, Physics, et al, they all require qualified interpreters, in order to explain, what was written, and invariably, this requires a number of different tools to do the job properly.

    Biblical Interpretation is no different in principle, except that it requires not just human intellect, but, the help of the original author Himself, the Holy Spirit, and without Him, it simply is not possible understand the Word of God, that He Inspired.

    Interpretation:

    The correct reproduction of the thoughts of another (either a writer or speaker), usually from a different language, has been called interpretation. When applied to the Bible, interpretation has been called hermeneutics, a term occurring in a work of J.C. Dannhaur in the 17th Century. (from the Gr. verb ‘hermeneuin’ meaning ‘to express, ‘to explain’ ‘to translate’ and ‘to interpret”).

    Biblical Interpretation:

    Interpretation has as its goal the discovery of the thought processes and the meaning of the writer, or writers, of the books of the Bible. The ultimate design is to convey that meaning to contemporary persons. The material of the Bible, written between 2,000 and 3,500 years ago, poses a special problem for the modern interpreter, because it was formulated in environments and in languages considerably different from those that prevail in our modern world.

    A. Nature.

    Biblical interpretation has a dual nature: (1) the problem of language, and (2) the theological significance of the material. The discovery of the true meaning of all words and terms in any Biblical passage is the place where interpretation begins. This is essentially an interpretation of language. It embraces such considerations as definition of words, contextual analysis, literary types and forms, historical analogy, and syntactical distinctives. In addition, Biblical material is of such a nature as to demand special consideration. The doctrine of inspiration holds the Biblical interpreter to a proper regard for the fudamental character of Scripture. It demands recognition of the theological significance of Scripture, resting upon the revelation of God, that is not found in any other literature. The extraordinary character of Scripture, transcends the usual and ordinary analysis of non-Biblical materials.

    But, there are legitimate presuppositions to be brought to the Scripture that cannot be brought to other books. Because, the Bible has Almighty God as its ultimate author, it must be expected that its contents will bear true and faithful relation to that fact. The Scripture itself offers the best insight into how it is to be interpreted – in light of its inspired character. To one who objects that it is illigitimate to bring a presupposition to the Bible as an interpreter, it is to be said, that in the nature of things, every interpreter cames with a presupposition.

    B. Means.

    The evangelical interpreter dares not neglect history in any of its relation to the problem of setting out the true meaning of a Biblical text. Indeed, the knowledge of history strengthens the hand of the interpreter who accepts the ultimate authorship of Almighty God in history. Every means of the historical-critical method of interpretation should claim his attention; textual criticism. literary criticism, comparative religion criticism, historical criticism, etc. Beyond all of this, however, the Holy Spirit is to be acknowledged as the only infallible interpreter of God’s Word. The mind of the Lord as given the interpreter through the ministry of the Spirit is an absolute necessity for the interpretation of Scripture. The Bible is not only a special and unique book, but its faithful interpreter must also be one of God’s faithfully, redeemed, sons/daughters as well.

  2. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @GP
    I find it amazing that you can so easily ascribe motives to persons just like that- and then brag about ignoring them, or accuse them of writing cow shit.
    ….how do you know that these persons are not genuinely confused and seeking knowledge and guidance?

    …since you yourself admit to not having answers to fundamental questions (such as why God would allow the devil to cause such cruelty etc) why have you so little tolerance for those who question some of your positions?

    I really admire your ability to profess such expertise in your faith even when you seem unable to discuss concepts beyond quoting bible verses or referencing the interpretations of other writers.

    For example, Ready-Done asked you a simple question “You saying god the all creator did not make sin? or he didn’t know that man would have turn to sin?

    ….and your answer is to listen to one Adrian Rogers?!?!

    Man what Adrian Rogers what?!?

    Man GP, when you finally get around to seeking, Bush Tea will provide all the answers that you need…

  3. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Bush Tea

    I find it amazing that you are amazed that I should have the right to ignore anyone who obviously think they can bait me into answering them in a way that will discredit me.

    If I respond as Zoe does it would be a crime (although he has the example of Paul and Jesus to go by). If I chose to ignore them (which is my right) it is still a crime. I don’t need to be pally pally with those who seek to discredit me or disrespect me. And I do still have the right to ignore such.

    Fortunately for me, God is my judge and not you. I have not accused anyone of writing bovine excrement on this thread, and you know that. I just ignore such, and I notice that others do too!

    I don’t see you chastising those who “ascribe motives to me just like that—just as you are currently doing” and as they do. But there seems to be a feeling that if you love the Word and try to share it, or if you are a Christian THAT YOU ARE A FOOL and that you ought to be the target of every one who seek to turn you into a whipping boy!

    If you refuse to stoop to that low level you are wrong too? I doubt it?
    .
    Re ….how do you know that these persons are not genuinely confused and seeking knowledge and guidance?

    Again, I am not half as stupid as you think.

    Re …since you yourself admit to not having answers to fundamental questions (such as why God would allow the devil to cause such cruelty etc)

    FYI I do not consider this to be a fundamental question. And in case you didn’t know. Good teachers DO NOT ANSWER ALL THEIR STUDENTS QUESTIONS.

    Good teachers often refer their students to sources where hopefully, the student can discover answers for themselves…..or they let them wait until the answers come up when they deem it appropriate to reveal the answers.

    Good teachers may goive an incorrect answer also to see if the classe is listening or attending (or in this case reading.)

    I didnt study for a Masters in Christian Education for you to teach me how to teach BT!.

    I have demonstrated a great deal of tolerance on these threads.

    I have never professed to be an expert in any thing either here, there or anywhere. And in case you don’t understand it yet, those of us who believe that the Bible is the SOLE AUTHORITY FOR FAITH AND PRACTICE quote bible verses or/and reference the interpretations of other writers. This is done also in Medicine and by TRUE SCHOLARS IN ANY DISCIPLINE!

    If I wanted to speak to you about animal location, I would refer you to HOW ANIMALS MOVE by Sr VB Wigglesworth. If I wanted to speak to you about HEPATIC DISEASES, I would refer you to read Dame Sheila Sherlock. When BIBLE STUDENTS speak about Bible they refer to the works of those authors known to have spent years STUDYING THE WORD.

    Re For example, Ready-Done asked you a simple question “You saying god the all creator did not make sin? or he didn’t know that man would have turn to sin?
    ….and your answer is to listen to one Adrian Rogers?!?! Man what Adrian Rogers what?!?

    Here you are guilty of the same thing for which you begun to accuse me.

    You do not know why I asked him to listen to Adrian Rogers Do you? Well see above. Any way I like how Adrian outlines the scripture and how he teaches the Word. Part of discipling folk is to expose them to good teachers. It has worked for countless others. And I doubt very much Bush Tea that you can teach me how to disciple any one, at this stage of my life..

    I teach how I want to teach, and Id be damned if you will teach me how to BT.

    Re Man GP, when you finally get around to seeking, Bush Tea will provide all the answers that you need… I SINCERELY DOUBT THAT VERY MUCH.

    There are several well trained scholars to whom I have been going and to whom will go before I descend to that level BT, with all due respect. I have not seen any of your books in any reputable book store anyway BT.

  4. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Man GP you too sweet!! You have HC written all over you…. but that’s OK. LOL.

    Actually what I am talking about is attitude…. You come across as quite arrogant (in a different way to Zoe, but equally so) -and unnecessarily so.

    If Bush Tea or anyone else appear to be clearly seeking to ridicule you, you can just say so and move on.

    My problem with you stems from the fact that I LIKE you, sympathize with a lot of what you say, recognize that you are bright, and yet I find you overly aggressive when challenged.

    ….just honest feedback.

    WRT teachers not giving all the answers – I think that you miss my point. I agree with you 100%. One does not casually throw pearls to swine…

    However, in the interest of one’s OWN faith, after years of post graduate study, I would think that such issues would be easily explained… but obviously I am wrong.

  5. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Yes Bush Tea
    Actually I am a very simple man who loves to talk nonsense and laugh loud and long. Just ask my sons, and those who know me well. I however, do not suffer fools gladly either!

    And FYI attending HC was never a big thing for me, as I knew that I deserved to go there on merit! I did not consider it a thing to be greatly desired. It was thrust upon me via a transfer from Boys Foundation, where I was quite happy, and might very well have done better! HC is NOT for everyone, even the brightest boys and girls in our nation ! I know that well.

    And if you think I am arrogant that’s cool too. I just wonder “Who made thee a prince and a judge over me….or Zoe? I respect Zoe greatly. HE KNOWS THE WORD & CAN DIVIDE IT WELL.

    I am sure that we do not agree on every single thing. All Bible teachers don’t. But you don’t see us challenging each other about pithy puerile points!

    And if there are any one on these Bible threads that can challenge anyone on the Word it would be the two of us. And you can call that arrogance! But it is simply THE TRUTH!

    I have never heard you tell others who are really pompous and arrogant and palpably ignorant of the Word and “unnecessarily so” that they portray these characteristics; even as they contribute very little to these discussions, and deliver a barrage of junk as they seek to be controversial or adversarial or attract attention thereby.

    Seekers ask questions; not talk shit!

    I do not share your view that I am arrogant or aggressive when challenged. And I wonder why you or any one else think that I need to be challenged. I don’t challenge anyone here. I don’t come here to challenge anyone or be challenged. I come here to be informed or entertained. I try to answer as many questions as I can as honestly as I can and to the best of my knowledge and ability on the areas of my life that I love most. But I hate TWO THINGS WITH A PASSION! Lousy teaching of Medicine and lousy teaching of the Bible!

    There is a particular person who comes on these threads who is clearly demon possessed and is used by Satan to deliberately derail the discussion, and BT you are NOT a fool. YOU CAN SEE THAT TOO! I chose not to engage with the devil, when I can clearly spot him coming or present! And if you call that arrogance so be it!

    NO BT even after years of post graduate study certain questions WILL NOT BE EXPLAINED, at least not by me, because as far as I am concerned there is no point!. They are often off topic and designed to distract (not necessarily by the asker, but by the devil himself).

    Anyone who has been to numerous Bible discussions, can easily detect and perceive this evil spirit. Others who care can answer those questions. I wont be doing so! Perhaps you can in your great wisdom.

    As has been rightly said on this thread I am no expert, so I don’t have to answer any or every question. And I will answer only those that I care too.

  6. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Re BT’s allegation to GP that he is arrogant, this is so far from the truth, that the very statement, is itself, one of arrogance!

    GP, has consistently on these threads, demonstrated patience, forbearance, composure, and tolerance with many, as he sincerely and honestly goes about teaching and rightly dividing God’s Word, in the face of some of the most willfull, obstinate, perverse, pigheaded, nonsense I have ever heard or read anywhere.

    And when GP, has had good cause, to express himself in light of downright foolishness, this he does with inobtrusive restraint, not arrogance at all!

    It is, in fact, some of the others, who are not only ‘ignorant’ of the subject matter, but extremely ‘arrogant’ in seeking to correct what they know little or nothing about.

    It is one thing not to know or understand something, but, it is another issue entirely, when such ignorance then rises up in blatant ‘arrogance’ as we see here on BU so often!

  7. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    Zoe // June 18, 2009 at 7:19 pm

    Like any serious academic discipline, Medicine, Law, Physics, et al, they all require qualified interpreters, in order to explain, what was written, and invariably, this requires a number of different tools to do the job properly.

    Biblical Interpretation is no different in principle, except that it requires not just human intellect, but, the help of the original author Himself, the Holy Spirit, and without Him, it simply is not possible understand the Word of God, that He Inspired.

    Now this is a load of BS!!!
    It is this way of thinking that has created the Popes, the priests etc. It always comes down to a class issue which highlights the arrogance of christians.

    I am sorry but I just cant subscribe to the Bible, which is to save us all, being so hard to understand by an ordinary person like myself.
    After all the posts , I am no closer to believing this than where I was before.

  8. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @GP…

    Do you know that caps mean shouting on the internet?

    Just checking.

  9. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    Georgie Porgie i want to introduce you to the principal K.I.S.S

    KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID.

    Much like the drunk men in the rum shop, some people is think that if them talk the most, them win the argument. For the sake of a fair argument try to keep answers strait to the point, when you answer with so much info it is clear that

    1 you just cut and paste from some where
    2 you ent even read what you cut and paste
    3 you dont understand what you cut and paste other wise you would have put it in your own words.
    4 you don’t really care enough to answer in your own words, maybe your time is too valuable.

  10. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Technician

    I can assure you that Zoe’s statement is not at all BS.

    Whereas the message of salvation as given in the Bible is as you say to save us all YOU DO NOT NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE BIBLE TO GET THE MESSAGE. In fact the message is repeated over and over in type and figure and in a variety of methods as stated in Hebrews 1:1 which I exegeted yesterday.

    Just as you do not need to know all the Geometry in Shannon & Smiths Mathematics Texts for the practical use of Pythagorus theorem you do not need to understand everything in the Bible for your soul’s salvation. You can get by with one single verse JOHN 3:16.

    I have practiced Medicine for almost 30 years, and I can assure you that I do not understand all the Medicine that is known. There is a saying in Medicine that asserts that COMMON THINGS ARE COMMON. Most doctors can handle all the common things well, and refer the uncommon maladies to those who specialize in those areas, without knowing all there is to know..

    Popes and priests as you know them were not created by “ this way of thinking” as you opine. Popes and priests as you know them were created by the TRADITIONS OF MEN! If you will examine 1 Peter 2 you will find that in the current dispensation of the church age, THAT ALL BELIEVERS ARE PRIESTS! You will not find the concept of pope anywhere in the Bible. In fact the only officials in a local church according to NT teaching are 1- DEACONS & 2 -PASTORS OR ELDERS OR BISHOPS ( these three words being used to describe the differing facets of the same job or office.

    The Bible is not a Mills and Boons or a Louis Amor or whatever, no more than Robins’ Text book of Pathology!.

    There are specialists in the interpretation of Shakespeare man.
    There are specialists and sub specialists in Medicine, Law, Physics, et al, All these subjects require study for their perfect comprehension.

    I worked with a Pathologist of 40 years experience. And he got up at 4 on mornings to review the Pathology he was going to teach that day. HE STUDIED!

    NO ONE DENIES THAT YOU MUST STUDY IN ALL DISCIPLINES ! But for over 40 years I have been hearing folk who have chosen NOT to study the Bible lament the fact that they cant understand it, while they talk a monstrous load of cows wallop about that which they do not know. There are more books written about the Bible as a whole and on parts of the Bible than about any other book!

    I have never seen a commentary on “big” Robbins or even “baby” Robbins Text book of Pathology!. I own about 6 on Revelations, and about 10 on the little books of 1 2 3 John and have completed my own on most of these books.

    Bible expositors or Christians are no more arrogant than Doctors or lawyers or entertainers or sports men (some of whom can not even write or spell)!

    THE BIBLE CAN BE UNDERSTOOD AND BY ORDINARY PERSONS LIKE YOURSELF IF YOU STUDY IT! AND IT IS EASIER TO UNDERSTAND OR TEACH THAN LAW OR MEDICINE OR PHYSICS OR MOST THINGS.

    I AM SURE AND I KNOW THAT I CANT UNDERSTAND MUCH ABOUT CONTEMPORARY TECHNOLOGY EVEN IF I TRIED.

    When I started to study the Bible I was an ordinary Bajan boy of 16! Iwas not in any special class nor am I now in any special class.

    Finally, it is indeed true Techie, ma boy, that Biblical Interpretation requires not just human intellect, but, the help of the original author Himself, the Holy Spirit, and without Him, it simply is not possible understand the Word of God, that He Inspired.

    You can take it or leave it friend, but I have found that to be true from the very beginning.

    Peace.

  11. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Technician

    Re I don’t care if caps mean shouting on the internet I use capitals for emphasis, and have always done so, and don’t plan to stop.

    Call me arrogant.

    Ready Done
    1 you just cut and paste from some where

    ACTUALLY I CUT AND PASTE USUALLY FROM MY ESSAYS WRITTEN TO OBTAIN FOUR DEGREES IN THEOLOGY.

    2 you ent even read what you cut and paste

    ACTUALLY I REREAD MY WORK BEFORE POSTING

    3 you dont understand what you cut and paste other wise you would have put it in your own words.

    ACTUALLY I DO UNDERSTAND WHAT I CUT AND PASTE AND SINCE IT IS ALREADY IN MY OWN WORDS THERE IS NO NEED TO CHANGE ANYTHING

    4 you don’t really care enough to answer in your own words, maybe your time is too valuable.

    I WRITE IN ENGLISH FOR A BAJAN AUDIENCE THAT WENT TO SECONDARY SCHOOL AND TO FOLK THAT PRESUMABLY OWN A BOOK CALLED A DICTIONARY

    I usually look up ENGLISH words I dont understand, and when studying the Bible I even look up the meaning and origin of the Greek or Hebrew words used in the original.

  12. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Ready-Done
    By the way

    I am not like the drunk men in the rum shop , and I am not here to win any argument. If I wanted to argue about the Bible I would seek Theologians with whom to do so.

    The reason I answer with so much info is because I know what I am talking about. If you don’t like reading, forget my posts. My answers are indeed on point and reflect the general understanding about the issues.

    I would think that I was introduced to the principal K.I.S.S about 20 years ago or more, but who are you that will try to teach me how to teach Bible. If you don’t like my way, forget me. I don’t set up any rules for anyone on BU, and I wont abide by anyone’s. I am not cursing or abusing or harassing anyone.

  13. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    @ GP i can tell your a pastor or some one in such a position.

    Pastors go into the bible in such detail that the average lay person has no time/will to do, it is the pastors job to put it in a way lay persons can understand.

    when i want to discuss important matters i have to be contented with going in the library and finding a book someone has written about the subject.
    I have no one near me capable of understanding what i want to know, this is why i am thankful for BU and the likes of people like you.

    But for MY sake please try to be a little more short with your answers, that way i can easily grasp the concept(s) you are putting fourth.

    not every one has 4 degrees in theology, My favorite author is John Locke you ever heard off him? if so what do you think of my choice? or can you suggest a better one.

  14. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    + its very unlikely you can call a English word i don’t know the meaning of.

    Some times the kiss principle is so simple higher ‘learning/conditioning’ makes it hard to notice, I got this email once about a truck the got stuck under a bridge, lots of engineers and academics came up with laborious ways to get the truck out, like cut off the top, cut the bridge etc…… but it took a 4 year old to suggest letting the air out the tires.

    If your willing to talk to a lay person (me) using lay person language i would like to show you some errors in the bible’s reasoning, using the bibles reasoning. If your up to it , lets go…..

  15. cosmicsurfer Avatar
    cosmicsurfer

    WOW……this is 2009 right,and i can’t believe that so many of you folk still rely on “the bible” like this ..it is not the word of “GOD” nor is jesus GOD …..but there are some good life lessons if one knows how to overstand what one has read……..your anti-christ is st.paul it’s in the book ….the beast, a system,,image of the beast, white god/white jesus,,and this image was “given life” in our time (movies),,mark of the beast, acceptance of the money system and your book say we have no choice in this matter ,,we all need the mark to eat ,,,we need to get back to our true Godself and know that we have a history that pre-dates the bible story by thousands of years,,and biblical lore is a small and insignificant part of it ,we are just biased because it was our slavemasters tool of choice so we protect it ,,fallen victim to the image of the beast..that’s how it works ,, P.E.A.C.E.

  16. cosmicsurfer Avatar
    cosmicsurfer

    G.P. if you really have 4 degrees in theology then you must know that it is all just a story and not the literal truth,,every theologian i’ve spoken to in the past 22 years knows this esp the catholics and they are the origin of your story,,one can find ‘no’ evidence in history for the jesus of your book none,,it is a story agreed upon.. . P.E.A.C.E.

  17. cosmicsurfer Avatar
    cosmicsurfer

    if these are the thoughts that inhabit the minds of educated bajans i can see why the nation is the way it is ,not a democracy but a schizophrenic theocratic hipocracy ,,,,,we’ve been children of God to long ,we need to be men and women of GOD,,,,,,,,P.E.A.C.E.

  18. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    @ GP how comes no one was resurrected after the bible came into power?

  19. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Cosmicsurfer, Yes, you are a real ‘Cosmicsurfer’ as your are surfing in the spirit realm of the ‘father’ of all lies, delusional, LIES!!!

    BTW, I also use CAPS, not to shout at anyone, but, like GP, purely for emphasis and augmentation!

  20. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Cosmicsurfer

    Your rant affords the kind of light entertainment that I seek when I log into BU- expect that your ramblings are not funny at all— nor TRUE!
    1- most educated bajans are not interested in the Word of God at all, nor do they uphold it as their authority for faith and practice
    2- it is a farce that we live in a democracy; ours is a form of dictatorship
    3- nor do we live in a schizophrenic theocratic hipocracy even though we have a form of godliness, we deny his power, just as you have done in your three posts. There is nothing theocratic about our nation, nor nothing schizophrenic either. Our nation is sold out to materialism and hedonism from the leaders down to the little children
    4- it is clear from your rant that you have not spoke to any theologian worthy of note. I will ask my friend Zoe to put up a good reading list for your proper Biblical education.
    5- it is noteworthy that the early church and the “apostle’s doctrine” preceded the Catholics by over three centuries, and that it is the Catholics who plunged the world into the Dark Ages.
    6- not only is Jesus known throughout history but he is currently known to those who have a personal relationship with him
    7- by the way the majority of true Christians in the world reject the positions and practices of the Catholics
    8- I am so sorry that you are mistaken about what the Word of God is, or about the deity of Christ.
    9- I trust too that you understand that your denial of the deity of Christ. Marks you as possessing the spirit of antichrist according to the tenets of 1 John 2:18 & 2 John 7
    10- Please note that it is true that though Paul spoke about the rise of Antichrist in 2 Thessalonians 2, that this was the only reference he made on this topic
    11- Who is it that have a history that pre-dates the bible story by thousands of years, and biblical lore is a small and insignificant part of it? Bajans?
    12- Do you really think that smart folk protect or project the tools of choice of their slave masters as you opine? Please provide the historical evidence properly annotated.
    13- Now friend why don’t you run along now and find some proper literature to read, and ask Christ to remove you from beneath the yoke of your father- the devil c.f John 8:44 and to help you not to sow the serpents seed

  21. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    @ Technician, Ready Done et al, presumably those who might have a sincere desire to understand God’s Word, the Bible.

    1) If your desire to understand is just another intellecual exercise, as in Chemistry, Physics, etc, you are wasting your time; as the brightest intellectual will never be able to discern the ‘Spiritual’ truth contained in God’s Word.

    2) However, if your desire is to be ‘Saved’ and know that you have the Gift of Eternal Life, then that is a straight forward matter, which is not difficult to understand, ‘IF’ you accept that you are a ‘Sinner’ in need to God’s forgiveness, which He has provided for in, by, and through Jesus Christ, then, you either believe or you DON’T believe.

    What is so difficult to understand about the word ‘REPENT’ that is, turn from your sinful way of living, thinking, and receive and accept Jesus into your heart and life.

    That IS the CORE message of God’s Word.

    “For God SO LOVED the world (mankind) that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” ( John 3:16).

    If you all cannot get pass this simple straight forward verse, then you have a serious problem in trying to understand anything else. In all subjects we start with the basic, first principles.

  22. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    @ Zoe..

    How dare you!!

    People like me seek the truth. Just because you believe in it does not mean that I have to.
    FYI ..I grew up in a Christian home, my mother is a devout Christian and my sister was also until she passed away.
    My problem with Christianity is that I have many unanswered questions which gives the greatest minds on this subject trouble in answering.
    Sorry ….but saying that some questions do not need to be answered doesn’t cut it for me. This is not Physics or Chemistry, as you and GP emphasize , this is my life and before I jump into anything , I would like to know what I am getting into inside out or forget it.
    I have a brain and I think, then I ask.

  23. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Technician
    Why is it that you seek the truth, grew up in a Christian home and have a mother and a sister that are/were devout Christian(s) but that you let “unanswered questions” hinder you from coming to Christ?

    Did your sister have all the answers or did she live for Christ?
    Does your mother have all the answers or does she live for Christ?
    Why must you have all the answers?

    You must know from your studies to acquire your profession that the more answers you find the more questions are posed. At least that’s what I have found.

    May I dare to suggest Technician that your statement below is just a cop out, an excuse. My problem with Christianity is that I have many unanswered questions which gives the greatest minds on this subject trouble in answering.

    We know its your life. References to Physics or Chemistry is just analogy and illustration; but you are an intelligent person, so you know that.

    So you have a brain and you think, then you ask, and yet your unanswered questions gives the greatest minds on this subject trouble in answering.

    Maybe you should do as Zoe suggests just accept Christ like your mother and sister have.

    Don’t worry about getting all your questions answered, BECAUSE IT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN! But you know that by now.

  24. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    I wondering if any one before the bible is going to be saved?

  25. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Technician, Over the ages, there have been many brilliant, some not so bright, others simple minded, who have come to Christ by faith, without having all of their questions answered, however, they all needed a Saviour, and they heeded to gentle conviction of the Holy Spirit, as He does to ALL men, some recognize and respond to the Loving call of God, others don’t, as Almighty God loves us too much to interfere with the soveriegn ‘free’ will He has given us.

    The sad thing is, that tonight, there are multitudes, that allowed Satan to mess with their intellect, will, and mind, to keep them just on the fringe of ‘belief’ long enough, knowing full well, that one good day or night, their journey here on earth would come to and end, and then, their real existence, would then start in either Eternity of Hell, or Eternity in Heaven.

    The choice is ours to make, time is running out for all of us, one way or the other; to those who are “Saved” a glorious beginning awaits us in eternity; conversely, to those who are not ‘Saved’ and eternity awaits them, that simply cannot be described, too terrible in its state and condition, where GP, myself, were heading, until we accepted Almighty God’s loving Grace, Mercy, and forgiveness in Christ Jesus.

  26. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    @zoe can some one be saved with out the bible or is it the only way?

  27. Avatar
    Anonymous

    zoe and GP you fell for the bait ,,thank you later in the week i will proceed to tear y’all up,,,and please don’t take it personal

  28. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @GP

    “I find it amazing that you are amazed that I should have the right to ignore anyone who obviously think they can bait me into answering them in a way that will discredit me. ”

    Well thanks for the admission. You obviously playing politics. You don’t care about truth, you care about being discredited.

    For a man with 4 degrees in theology, you are the worst. You get here professing what you don’t know a thing about. You holding up yourself as the man with all the answers to the bible, but really and truly, you dancing.

    It should be obvious to all by now that you don’t have the first clue… but you owe your readers an explanation about the proof of the bible as a factual document.

    First you need to tell them where they can find any reference to any of the bible characters in Egyptian records or Roman records or in any official records.

    Second, you need to explain to them why they were others besides Jesus who were born of a virgin and who died and resurrected in three days.

    Third, you need to explain to them why we portray Jesus as white when the bible describes him as non-white.

    Finally, you need to stop concocting your own philosophy and putting it forward as truth. The concoction started long before you and what you concocting never was there.

    I go back to Rev. Errington Massiah and I have to agree with him that people like you are causing serious discredit to christianity; people like you are lost.

    You and Zoe should understand that anytime you say “I believe” you cannot put it forward as truth nor fact. This is basic. Any right thinking person will know that, but somehow when it gets to the bible, all rationale is lost and the fairy tale sets in.

    It goes back to the theory that if you say something often enough you believe even though it is not the truth and even when the truth is staring you in the face. That is what Hitler did to the Germans and your readers should be mindful of that.

    Take for example, ZOE:
    “…knowing full well, that one good day or night, their journey here on earth would come to and end, and then, their real existence, would then start in either Eternity of Hell, or Eternity in Heaven.”

    “Knowing full well”? Now tell me where he get that from that he could be professing that as fact? That is a belief; he has not the first clue what happens after death but professing that he knows.

    Now if he was saying that the bible professes, he could not be at fault but he want it so much to be the truth that he is fuzzy and decides that it is the truth. He repeats it long enough that it is a reality for him, but please let him know that you, he nor I, have not the first clue about life after death, we can only speculate.

    This type of behaviour and approach is what the good Rev. Massiah is speaking about when he said that people like you are enemies of the church. You have no tolerance and believe that all those who do not believe what you do, should die. This is a formula for massive disturbances.

    You guys need to examine yourselves. You coming across like Hitler; do as I say or die. You continue to ignore me and brag about it… but what you should understand is that by ignoring me you prove all the points above; you just can’t deal with me. You have no answers… and by the way, anybody that behaves like you must be the worse manifestation of the devil self; leading men astray by trying to profess what you believe as the truth and reinforcing slavery by doing it.

  29. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    funny thing is if you really listen to what Jesus was saying he never give direct instruction to any thing his parables are basically saying trust your self and do what it right.

  30. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Ready-Done

    Re funny thing is if you really listen to what Jesus was saying he never give direct instruction to any thing his parables are basically saying trust your self and do what it right.

    Your statement clearly demonstrates that either you have never read the Gospels, or/and if you did, that you did not understand what you read

    Below I will quote a few verses from just the first six chapters of John’s gospel. There you ought to be able to see certain important and significant instructions that Jesus gave. Including the fact that HE is the ONLY SOURCE OF SALVATION.

    I cant give too many because you profess not to like to read too long. I have never met anyone that wanted to learn that didn’t like reading. I was taught as a wee lad that all that you desire to learn can be found in books

    JOHN CHAPTER 1
    38. Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou? 39. He saith unto them, Come and see.

    42. And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

    JOHN CHAPTER 2
    7. Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
    8. And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

    16. And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise.

    JOHN CHAPTER 3

    3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
    21. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

    CHAPTER 4
    10. Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
    13. Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14. But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

    16. Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither

    24. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    CHAPTER 5

    24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
    25. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
    26. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27. And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
    28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    37. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me.
    Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
    38. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
    39. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
    40. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
    41. I receive not honour from men.
    42. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
    43. I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
    44. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45. Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
    46. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
    47. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

    CHAPTER 6
    27. Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

    35. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
    36. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
    37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
    38. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
    39. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
    44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
    45. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God.
    Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
    46. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
    47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

  31. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @GP

    You are really the worst. Ready-Done ask you the following:
    “funny thing is if you really listen to what Jesus was saying he never give direct instruction to any thing his parables are basically saying trust your self and do what it right.”

    Ready-Done is absolutely correct, but you answer him showing how Jesus said to somebody go here and do this or go there and do that… the height of ignorance on your part.

    Check the language from your own quotes:
    “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

    He did not say “born again”, it was a caution.

    “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

    Again, conditional; if you do this that will happen.

    “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life”.

    conditional on belief.

    “I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.”

    Tolerance.

    “And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
    38. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

    More tolerance

    “Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.”

    Humility.

    “7. Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
    8. And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.”

    Even this is a request which was complied with for a particular result.

    You really think that people ignorant. Don’t talk about anybody stooping low because you does get the lowest in your smart, degrading, condescending and snyde way. Nothing but a nuisance.

  32. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    @GP…….Did you know that the christian ‘Satan’ was derived from Ancient Egyptian mythological ‘Set?’

  33. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    @GP

    “I cant give too many because you profess not to like to read too long. I have never met anyone that wanted to learn that didn’t like reading. I was taught as a wee lad that all that you desire to learn can be found in books…”

    You are either a white man or a house nigger. The man said that he want to hear it from you and not you quoting long passages. He is correct because you seek to confuse. It is clear that the man read the Bible and asking you for your opinion, so what is the point of quoting the bible except to try to confuse the man. (I assuming that Ready-Done is a man.)

    Your last response could well have been an empty space that somebody else could have used to write something constructive.

  34. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Hopi
    Re
    GP…….Did you know that the christian ‘Satan’ was derived from Ancient Egyptian mythological ‘Set?’

    NO I DID NOT KNOW THAT HOPI.

  35. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    I will in this post continue on the topic THE RISE OF THE ANTICHRIST for those who are interested.

    Bible scholars generally agree that the first great Kingdom of the world was that of Egypt.

    The next great kingdom of the known world was that of Israel, especially under Kings David and Solomon.

    In 586 BC the Babylonians conquered a revived Egypt and a declining Judah to usher in the third major kingdom in history.

    In Daniel chapters 2 & 7 we have an interpretation of a dream that the leader of the Babylonian Empire had that puzzled this man soon after his ascendency to great power. It was the dream of the image with the head of gold etc.

    An understanding of these two chapters and the identification of the kingdoms that were predicted to arise, and that have indeed arisen is very important in understanding the doctrine of the last times. Because the issues described in these chapters records the general history of “the times of the Gentiles,” from the time Nebuchadnezzar took the Jews into captivity in 586 BC until the Son of Man’s return to the earth the second time.

    These kingdoms are the Babylonians (#3) , the Medes & Persians (#4), the Greeks (#5) the Romans (#6) and the revived Roman Empire which will be headed up by antichrist at its culmination only to be destroyed by Christ at Armageddon to set up the everlasting kingdom (#7) so often spoken of in the OT.

    Daniel chapter 8 reveals more detail about the second (Persian) and third (Greek) kingdoms and especially how they relate to Israel.

    We noted in our exegesis that the emphasis in both Daniel chapters 7 & 8 are on the little horn, though two different individuals are in view.

    The little horn in chapter 7 is Antichrist, and the little horn in chapter 8 is Antiochus in the short range and Antichrist in the long range according to the Law of Double Mention. Chapter 8 focuses on the Jews as the target in the short range.

    Chapter 7 focuses on believers generally as the target of Antichrist’s opposition. However, there is some hint in both chapters that in the long range the Jews will be the objects of persecution.

    The times of the Gentiles”, although not entirely a period of persecution of Israel, has often resulted in great trial to them. Of the four great world empires anticipated by Daniel, only the Persian empire was relatively kind to the Jew. As Christ Himself indicated in Luke 21:24, the times of the Gentiles is characterized by the treading down of Jerusalem, and the subjugation and persecution of the people of Israel.

    Again we stress that in Mathew 24:15 Jesus said When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:), and note that this an important relation to Daniel’s predictions concerning the end times.

    Since Jesus was obviously referring to Daniel chapter nine, this chapter is also paramount in an understanding of the concept of the rise of antichrist.

    Daniel chapter nine is thought by many to be the high point of the book of Daniel, because it must be properly understood if the great prophetic discourse of our Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 24—25, Mark 13, Luke 21 and the greater portion of the book of Revelation will be understood .

    Daniel chapter 9 is unique in Scripture in that it actually sets up a sort of time schedule of coming events. The nearest approach to it is Jeremiah’s prophecy of seventy years

    It is noteworthy also, that although previously Gentile history and prophecy recorded in Daniel was related to the people of Israel, the ninth chapter specifically takes up prophecy as it applies to the chosen people themselves.

    Verses 1-23 it prepares for, and connect with the focal point of the chapter that relates to the issue that Jesus raised from Daniel that is of so great importance to students of Eschatology.

    “In the concluding four verses of Daniel 9, one of the most important prophecies of the Old Testament is contained. The prophecy as a whole is presented in verse 24. The first sixty-nine sevens is described in verse 25.The events between the sixty-ninth seventh and the seventieth seventh are detailed in verse 26. The final period of the seventieth seventh is described in verse 27.”

    “Daniel’s prophecy of the seventy weeks (vv. 24-27) provides the chronological frame for Messianic prediction from Daniel to the establishment of the kingdom on earth and also a key to its interpretation.” “Probably no single prophetic utterance is more crucial in the fields of Biblical Interpretation, Apologetics, and Eschatology.”

    9:24 The Hebrew word translated “weeks” (shabu’im) literally means “sevens.” It can refer to seven days (Gen. 29:27-28) or seven years (Lev. 25:3-5). Most scholars believe that this word here represents seven years because the fulfillment of the first sixty-nine years shows that these sevens are indeed years. In addition, the last half of the seventieth seven is described elsewhere as consisting of three and one-half years, or 42 months, or 1260 days.

    Seventy seven-year periods totals 490 years. As Jerusalem was suffering under the hand of Gentiles for 70 years (v. 2), so the Jews and Jerusalem would suffer under the hand of Gentiles for 490 years. “Your people” and “your holy city” are obvious references to the Jews and Jerusalem (cf. vv. 7, 11, 20). They have nothing to do with the church, which is a distinct entity from Israel (cf. 1 Cor. 10:32). However as the following verses
    clarify, these will not be uninterrupted years.

    9:25 There are four decrees concerning the rebuilding of Jerusalem that Scripture records.
    The first was Cyrus’ decree to rebuild the temple in 538 B.C. (2 Chron. 36:22-23; Ezra 1:1-4; 6:2-5).
    The second was Darius I’s decree in 512 B.C. confirming Cyrus’ earlier one (Ezra 6:1, 6-12).
    The third was Artaxerxes’ decree in 457 B.C. (Ezra 7:11-26).
    The fourth was Artaxerxes’ decree authorizing Nehemiah to rebuild Jerusalem in 444 B.C. (Neh. 2:1-8).

    The first two authorized the rebuilding of the temple, and the third provided for animal sacrifices in the temple. Only the fourth one gave the Jews permission to rebuild Jerusalem, and it seems to be the one in view here. The Jews encountered opposition as they sought to rebuild and refortify their ancient capital, as the Book of Nehemiah records. The date 444 B.C. then probably marks the beginning of this 490-year period.

    Seven sevens plus sixty-two sevens equals 483 years. Gabriel predicted that after 483 years Messiah would be cut off. Detailed chronological studies have been done that show that Jesus Christ’s death occurred then. One scholar, Sir Robert Anderson, believed that the day Jesus entered Jerusalem in his triumphal entry was the last day of this long
    period.

    Whether or not the chronology is that exact, almost all expositors agree that the death of Christ is in view and that it occurred at the end of the sixty-ninth week.
    What happened after 49 years that justifies breaking this period into two parts? Perhaps it was the end of the Old Testament revelation through the writing prophets. Another more probable view is that it took that long to clear out all the debris from Jerusalem and to restore it fully as a thriving city with streets and moat.

    9:26 Most Christian interpreters have taken the cutting off of Messiah as a reference to Jesus Christ’s death. He had nothing then in a very real sense.

    The prince who will come seems to be a different person from the Messiah. His people, not he himself, would destroy the city. This happened in A.D. 70 when the Roman army under Titus leveled Jerusalem.

    The prince who will come, however, was evidently not Titus but a future ruler, namely, the Antichrist (7:8). Titus made no covenant with the Jews (v. 27). However, Titus did initially what this prince will do ultimately. Jerusalem did not end because of a literal flood of water in Titus’ day, but Roman soldiers overwhelmed it (cf. 11:10, 22, 26, 40; Isa. 8:8). War preceded the destruction. Gabriel announced that God had determined the city’s desolation (cf. Matt. 24:7-22).

    Some interpreters believe that the end of this verse describes conditions that have followed Titus’ destruction and continue even today. Others think it only describes what Titus did.

    9:27 “In contrast to the rather clear fulfillment of verses 25-26, verse 27 is an enigma as far as history is concerned; and only futuristic interpretation allows any literal fulfillment.”

    The nearest antecedent of “he” is “the prince who is to come” (v. 26). Since Titus made no covenant with Israel, so who is in view? Apparently a future ruler of the revived or reorganized Roman Empire, the little horn of chapter 7, is in view. This seems preferable to taking the antecedent of “he” as Messiah since Jesus Christ did not do the things predicted of the prince here.

    This means that the seventieth week does not follow the sixty-ninth week immediately. Such a break in prophetic chronology has precedent in the predictions of Messiah’s first and second advents (Isa.61:1-2). Another evidence of a break between the sixty-ninth and
    seventieth weeks is the fact that there was a 37-year gap between Messiah’s cutting off in A.D. 33 and the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Yet Daniel presented both of these events as after the sixty-ninth week and before the seventieth week. Thus there must be a break in the chronology after the sixty-ninth week.

    This future ruler, according to Gabriel, will make a covenant with “the many” for one week (seven years). “The many” evidently refers to Daniel’s people (v. 24), believers in the religion of the Jews (cf. 11:39; 12:2). After three and one-half years, this Antichrist will terminate the sacrifices and offerings that he permitted these Jews to offer. Their ability to offer these sacrifices indicates that they will be back in the land worshipping at a rebuilt temple.

    Perhaps the simplest explanation of the phrase “The wing of abominations” is to “on the wing of” in the sense of “with.” Apparently the prince will appear in the Jerusalem temple when he ends the sacrifices.

    Daniel 12:11 refers to a future stopping of the Jewish sacrifices forty-two months before Messiah returns to the earth. Revelation 13:4-7 also describes this future ruler in harmony with what Gabriel revealed here.

    Jesus too warned of him in Matthew 24:15-28 as did the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 and the Apostle John in 1 John 2:18. The complete destruction decreed by God and poured out on this prince will come, according to these passages, when Messiah returns to the earth.
    The strongest argument for a literal fulfillment of the events predicted in verse 27 is that the events predicted in verses 24-26 were fulfilled literally. “The ‘abomination of desolation’ set up by Antiochus is not the ultimate fulfillment of Daniel 9:27 because (a)
    Antiochus does not fit the time sequence given in that verse, and (b) long after the time of Antiochus, Jesus said Daniel’s prophecy of the abomination of desolation was
    still future (Matt. 24:15-16).”

    The above summary of the issues from Daniel chapters 2, 7, 8, and 9 that are needed to understanding the rise of the antichrsist ought to be easily understood by anyone who went to secondary school in Barbados and who can read.

  36. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    @ ROK , lol, leff he, Georgie Porgie doing he best, maybe the next time i ask a three line question i would get a 3line answer, maybe,lol.

    And yes, Ready is a man.

    @Georgie Porgie honestly you must like allot of reading, i stop at 21, plus i ent finish reading your definition of a spirit, but i don’t think you get what i was saying. so i going to try again.

    If you was to ‘play out’ the bible in your head, like it was a movie, the character Jesus would not be one like a current day dictator/pastor saying if you do X you going to get in heaven, he would have been more the ‘laze affair’ type to say ‘ do what you know is right and you will live long and happy.

    I taking instruction, this is a cut &paste from wiki.

    ‘A parable is a short tale that illustrates universal truth, one of the simplest of narratives. It sketches a setting, describes an action, and shows the results.’

    This was Jesus teaching method of choice. He never gave any laws. only showed universal truths in a (short)way that a lay persons can understand.

    Can you tell me why i should listen to any one else if this is what Jesus conveyed.

    I DEAR YOU TO QUOTE JESUS GIVING A DIRECT LAW THAT THE CHURCH ENDORSES NOW.

  37. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    Am anyone notice that those who bare the mark of the best will be the only ones able to spend MONEY?

    no body else ent see the connection between money and the mark of the beast?

    Or ever wonder why the church is now big business?

  38. Thanatos Avatar
    Thanatos

    I never thought I’d ever, ever, in my life, ever live to see and read, on the one hand, such detailed, sound exposition of God’s Word, as given by GP, and, on the other hand, such utter pertinacious, refractory, self-willed , ill-defined, bleary, dim, fuzzy, insipid, fallacious, irrational, shoddy, ‘SHITE’
    as we see here; proffered as an alternative explanation to Truth!

    We really have to thank BU for allowing us to see and read, the amazing contrast between, intelligent, sound, logical, coherent, ‘Truth’ and its arch enemy, ignorance, personified in such ignominious, disreputable, disgraceful contempt, disdain, and scorn!

  39. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Coming back from the gas station just now, I hit the wrong button on the radio and got some sky pilot telling me to send him some money and turn up to Briar Hall tomorrow to be totally cleansed of all the ailments that GP has his own man made remedies.

    Immediately my scam alert went off.

    One question always strikes me when listening to these control freak shysters is – If God is so omnipotent why does he have his servants always begging contributions?

    God can’t provide sustenance for the dissemination of the truth?

    God can’t handle his own finances?

    I struggle, I know, to keep head above water, but if he needs the widow’s mite to propagate the only way to salvation I could probably give God a lesson in economics.

    Fire and brimstone, Harlots into stone, Parting the Red Sea easy peasy, but paying the pastors, man that’s different.

    It would take a miracle to satisfy their righteous demands, and I’m only one,in some people’s mind, the only ONE.

    A little short this week? so lets ask the congregation of suckers to chivvy up.

    GP et al, you may lead the gullible into the comfortable promise of a better life after death, but please spare us realists your condescending divisions of mumbo-jumbo.

  40. Straght talk Avatar
    Straght talk

    Yeah, that’s me above.

  41. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Ready Done

    Re maybe the next time i ask a three line question i would get a 3line answer, maybe,lol.

    Even the most taciturn idiot does not answer three line questions PROPERLY & COMPREHENSIVELY with a three line question on Bible.

    Some verbose idiots use more lines and say nothing of substance or related to the question.

    Georgie Porgie honestly you must like allot of reading, YES THAT IS THE USUAL WAY THAT YOU GET A DEGREE IN MEDICINE SIR.

    Re If you was to ‘play out’ the bible in your head, like it was a movie, the character Jesus would not be one like a current day dictator/pastor saying if you do X you going to get in heaven, he would have been more the ‘laze affair’ type to say ‘ do what you know is right and you will live long and happy.

    Do you think that this verse would contradict your position Sir? This is only one.

    John 15:6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
    John 8 24. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

    Re. ‘A parable is a short tale that illustrates universal truth, one of the simplest of narratives. It sketches a setting, describes an action, and shows the results.’

    This is actually a poor definition of a parable. If you read the parables this should be evident. It is noteworthy that serious Bible scholars don’t go to Wikepedia for serious answers on Bible matters. I certainly don’t.

    You say that Jesus teaching method of choice was the parable. This is certainly not true. Only 19 parables are recorded in the gospels and in each case they were used as ILLUSTRATIONS only!

    There are certainly no parables in the whole of John’s Gospel (as you most certainly know) but there is ceretainly a lot of teaching there!

    You say that a parable is “one of the simplest of narratives, ” and imply that parables only showed universal truths in a (short)way that a lay persons can understand.

    If you could read, or would read, you would have noted earlier on the thread that BT took pains to stress that when Jesus gave a parable NO ONE UNDERSTOOD WHAT HE SAID, AND THAT HE DID THIS DELIBERATELY.

    Read the Gospels again Sir, before you spout nonsense. There is only room for one of that ilk on these threads with pithy, petulant, pedantic, pedestrian and puerile posts. PLEASE SIR! I BEG OF YOU DON’T DESCEND TO THAT LEVEL!

    Re
    This was Jesus teaching method of choice. He never gave any laws. only showed universal truths in a (short)way that a lay persons can understand.

    Again if you read John’s gospel, you will find that there is usually a long discourse after each of the 8 miracles there recorded, and the truths recounted are not universal but very specific.

    Methinks that you have not grasped very much of what you have read in the NT, if you ever read it properly at all before you turned 21, or thereafter. Or perhaps you merely forgot what you read. No harm in reading it again though.

    Re Can you tell me why i should listen to any one else if this is what Jesus conveyed.

    NO of course NOT. See Hebrews 12:2 You should listen to what Jesus says. Get a Bible in which the words of Jesus are written in red and read all that he says. You will find inter alia that he was the one who said the most about hell, for one thing!

    Re I DEAR YOU TO QUOTE JESUS GIVING A DIRECT LAW THAT THE CHURCH ENDORSES NOW.

    If you had an inkling of understanding of the NT, you might know that law is not a good word, but I will still give you the major commandment that Jesus gave to the church that abides to this day. OK?

    John 15:10. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

    John 15:12. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

    John 15:16. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
    John 15:17. These things I command you, that ye love one another.

    John13:34. A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

    And permit me just from John to make a few notes about some major doctrines that he introduced that even the apostate contemporary church upholds.

    Doctrine of salvation
    John 3 16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
    John 14 6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    John10: 9. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

    Doctrine of the eternal security of the believer

    John 637. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    John10: 27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
    51. Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

    Doctrine of the second coming
    Chapter 14
    1. Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    Doctrine of the Holy Spiritt

    John 14 16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17. Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
    John 14 26. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
    John 15 : 26. But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27. And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

    Oh did you notice that in none of this major teachings that JESUS NEVER USED A PARABLE ONCE? Ah lie? Oh me am!

  42. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Straight Talk

    I share your view about the crooks and charlatans who beg for money to preach the word.

    2 Peter 2 describes it as making merchandise, and you must agree thats a most adequate description.

    in I Peter 5, Peter advises not to serve for filthy lucres sake.

    I do not teach the word for money. My church group does not hire pastors, per se. The speakers in our church are usually all laymen . Though Paul stated that a genuine workman is worthy of his hire, he did not beg for his pay.

    I dont think that the church was designed to behave as it does today.

    Dont judge everyone by the same standards.

  43. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Ready-Done
    Just for your information, despite what Wiki may say, Jesus spoke in parables for the express purpose of concealing the truth from those listening to him.

    This presents a major difficulty for Christians like GP and Zoe, but unfortunately for them, the disciples asked him directly- why he chose to use parables, and HE is the one that explained his intent to confuse listeners.

    If you could understand this approach by Jesus, as well as why God would have created and established the Devil (and all associated evil) then you would be well on the way towards understanding the truth.

  44. Straight talk Avatar
    Straight talk

    Ready Done: you really done now.

    Burnt to a crisp in the eternal fires of damnation,”cos you challenged a chosen one.

    You gotta realise this man is educated so suffer his abuses but pay no heed.

    He is revealing himself as a mean spirited blow-hard, and you, Damian, obviously have more spirit within you than he has ever divided from his years of Bible study.

  45. Thanatos Avatar
    Thanatos

    No matter how many charlatans they are out there, no matter how many deceitful gospelers they are out there, they CAN NEVER change the absolute ‘Truth’ of the Gospel of Christ.

    There has been frauds from the very beginning in early NT times, and there will be right up until Jesus returns; they will NEVER be able to invalidate the ‘Truth’ of God’s Word.

    NO man will be judged on what another person has done, or not done, for each ONE of us will either spend Eternity in Heaven or Hell, and that depends on what we do with Jesus Christ!!!

  46. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    GP

    I see that you live up to your Christian principles of turning the other cheek when individuals attempt to insult you

  47. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Straight talk

    How did I sentence the man to hell for challenging any chosen one?

    I just quoted a few Bible verses to answer his questions? If I had ignored them I would be drawn and quartered.

    In what way have I abused anyone? I didnt hear you when the same Ready Done was boldly saying that I was only cutting and pasting stuff that I didnt read or that I didnt know what I was talking about.

    How have I now revealed myself as a mean spirited blow-hard, when for weeks on end I have refused torespond to all the taunts and nasty things said about me in these threads by folk that do not know me at all.

    What does dividing of spirit mean ST?
    Illuminate me please.

  48. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Thank you Sargeant.

    At least you can see clearly what is happening here. But such treatment of believers was foretold by Jesus himself in John 17.

    I have never experienced it quite like how it is dished out here on BU to Zoe and I. It is very clear that the devil does not appreciate our presence on this blog.

    Bush Tea

    I am amazed (to quote you) that you are brimbling when I refered to the fact that you yourself reported that Jesus spoke in parables for the express purpose of concealing the truth from those listening to him.

    And I said this corroborating your teaching on the matter to indicate that this was in CONTRAST TO THE ERROR THAT ready done was purveying which was contrary to your learned thesis.

    Have you changed your position? I have not.

    You believe that Jesus’ teaching in parables and its ramifications presents a major difficulty for Christians like GP and Zoe. You who knoweth all things are incorrect there!

    There is nothing unfortunate because when the disciples asked him directly- why he chose to use parables, and HE is the one that explained his intent to confuse listeners. THAT IS A FACT THAT WE HAVE NOT DISPUTED AT ANY TIME.

    Re If you could understand this approach by Jesus, as well as why God would have created and established the Devil (and all associated evil) then you would be well on the way towards understanding the truth.

    ARE YOU SAYING THAT THIS ALL THAT IS NEEDED TO UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH?

    ARE YOU SAYING THAT AMIDST ALL THE DOCTRINE AND PRECEPTS TAUGHT IN THE WORD OF GOD THAT THESE MINOR ISSUES ARE PARAMOUNT FOR UNDERSTANDING THE “TRUTH”.

    Surely you jest BT? Or do you?

  49. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Ready Done opined that Jesus teaching method of choice was the parable.

    If you read the Gospels you will find that this is certainly not true. I pointed out correctly that there are certainly no parables in the whole of John’s Gospel where there is a lot of important teaching for the church age…. that is DEFINITELY NOT GIVEN IN THE SYNOPTIC GOSPELS.

    Only 19 parables are recorded in the gospels and in each case they were used as ILLUSTRATIONS only! This can NOT be refuted. No major discourse of Jesus is composed of parables alone!

    If a parable is “one of the simplest of narratives, ” and imply that parables only showed universal truths in a (short)way that a lay persons can understand, then why were the PARABLES GENERALLY NOT UNDERSTOOD BY JESUS’ INITIAL AUDIENCE?
    WHY THEN DID JESUS EXPLAIN THE PARABLES TO THE DISCIPLES AND FOR US?

    To really master this issue about parables, we need to go back to first principles and ask.
    To whom were the parables initially addressed?
    Does this have anything to do with the parables not being understood by Jesus’ initial audience in fulfillment of Isaiah’s predictions on the matter?

  50. Ready-Done Avatar
    Ready-Done

    I always thought Jesus used parables to confuse people and basically, get them thinking for them self.

    The next step was to let people know they are to be judge only for their own actions and no one elses.

    Then let them know that his way is the only way(loving your neighbors as yourself)

    This is one of the many misrepresented sayings used by the church.
    I love my self and i love to be corrected when i do wrong, then i would know right, so if i love my neighbors as well i should correct them when wrong.

    A next , God rest when the work was done, it just happen to be the seventh day.

    It helps to think about the character of Jesus then apply his ‘personalty’ to anyevery situation. It really doesn’t matter who he was talking to as he is the light for every man to find his way.

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