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Submitted by Yardbroom

There is an argument that the nature of this submission will polarize, but I would contend that is only because the issue has not already been satisfactorily addressed.  That possibility is all the more reason for an intelligent debate.  I believe that race appears to be always just beneath the surface as evidenced in some debates.  It is only fair to state this issue of race has not been helped by a “few” in positions of authority – when it is convenient – seeking to exploit race to their advantage.  When we can discuss race in an open debate, without fear of victimization or denigration of each other, the process will start to put race to the sword in Barbados.

This is an attempt to start that process by asking simple questions on a “specific issue.”

Why are there so “few” and I mean “few” medium and large size businesses managed and “owned” by indigenous black Barbadians?  I will further make the point that business opportunities are not possible to all races in equal measure commensurate with their percentage of the population in Barbados.  If I am wrong there will be hard evidence to refute my statement.

Before expansion, I can hear those who say, why talk about race it does not matter in this day and age, the young are not concerned.  Most people who take that view are asking for a dialogue of silence.  If you never ask pertinent questions there cannot be satisfactory responses.  Perhaps I should add , I am not speaking of a few young people having a drink in a bar, even dating, this issue is more fundamental than that.

Is there something “peculiar” about Barbados which adversely effects its black citizens and thus renders them impotent in this regard.  Is it the case that black businesses are only allowed up to a certain level here, and then surreptitiously thwarted?  Are inroads only allowed in specific areas, others by silent acquiescence are the preserve of certain ethnic groups?

If the points I have raised are baseless, they can be easily refuted by evidence of a “large number” of medium size and substantial size indigenous black owned businesses in Barbados.  I have repeatedly used the word “indigenous black” with purpose. To say this has not happened because of a lack of business acumen for a successful enterprise, invites the retort are any efforts being made to address this obstacle and has a serious attempt ever been made as a national priority.  Please do not highlight less than a dozen “large businesses” in a population of 90% indigenous black; that would surely make my point.

tAre we to believe that of all the black people in the world “only” black indigenous Barbadians are incapable of owning and running a large successful business.  Are we suggesting that the same black Barbadians whose stock has produced stable Governments etc, are incapable of running a successful large enterprise.  I am asking these questions because I hope that what is implied in this submission can be easily refuted.  To suggest there is no case to answer, to an obvious reality, without evidence is vacuous.

The world is changing and changing fast, Barbados has to adapt to that change.  It is how we position ourselves to meet that change which will determine the long term stability of our country.

Men/women of true vision are able to act and adapt to a new set of circumstances, those who remain moribund, settled and complacent in the attitudes and mores of the past, will see perceived rights easily eroded.  This submission has not used vicious words or phrases against any groups, neither has it been aggressive.  It has just posed questions which can easily be explained if the evidence is there.  I have studiously avoided personal attacks, as they are often counter productive in such an issue and generally serve no purpose.

This submission in “not” about a black person being President in another country and how race does not matter today etc.  It is about “Barbados” and its black men/women having the opportunity to own and manage medium and large businesses in the country of their birth – with a level playing field –  and in so doing be in control of the “economic levers” of their country.

  1. If entrepreneurial skills are deficient in the indigenous majority black population; how do we address those deficiencies.
  2. It cannot enhance the “self-worth” of the majority black indigenous population if they know – because it is evident – that they do not play a major part in controlling the “levers of economic power” in their own country.
  3. It would appear that young indigenous Barbadian black boys/girls are growing up in environment in which the “abnormal” is seen as normal, and their self-worth and entrepreneurial ability is considered 2nd rate, perhaps because of denied opportunities.

As an aside , one purpose of a “good blog” is to tackle issues the main stream media do not engage with.  Not to grab headlines but to seek “truth” by asking searching questions, which some might be uncomfortable with, but that is no reason why those questions should not be asked.


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  1. Scout wrote “Let’s face it, black is black’s biggest enemy.”

    That is an oft repeated lie.

    I put it to you that most Barbadian black families (and white and “Indian” too) are enormously supportive of each other, within their means. I cannot give any family member a plantation, or a majority share holding in BS& T , but I can give and I have received help to co-sign loans for university education and mortgages, help with child minding and elder care, hands-on help with farming and house building, and homework and housework, help with births and weddings and with funerals and everything else in between. And my family is just normal.

    Most families I have good reason to believe do the same for each other.

    Among ALL races the dysfunctional families are in the minority.


  2. @Juris

    If our memory is correct in the early 90s there was capital flight when the ruling class in Barbados wanted to visibly demonstrate that they had lost all confidence in the then Prime Minister Erskine Sandiford. The government along with drawing down on an IMF Standby line of credit begged the ruling class i.e.insurance companies et al to bring back the US dollars they had invested overseas.

    That is what we mean when we talk about economic power.


  3. Yardbroom you wrote “William (Bill) Hewlett and David (Dave) Packard both graduated in electrical engineering from Stanford University in 1935.”

    Stanford then and now was and is an expensive private university. Who do you think supported Hewlett and Packard while they were at Stanford in the hard times of the 1930’s ?


  4. Here is some of what wikipedia has to say about Cyrus Hall McCormick.

    Sounds to me like he got an awful lot of help from his family, and it wasn’t financial!!

    Like Henry Ford, he came out of a farming family as would be expected.

    Cyrus Hall McCormick, Sr. (February 15, 1809 – May 13, 1884) of Rockbridge County, Virginia was an American inventor and founder of the McCormick Harvesting Machine Company, which became part of International Harvester Company in 1902.[1]

    He was born at “Woodbridge”, the McCormick family farm in Rockbridge County, Virginia,[2] in the Shenandoah Valley on the western side of the Blue Ridge Mountains.

    His parents were, Mary Ann Hall; and Robert Hall McCormick.

    His siblings included: Leander J. McCormick and William Sanderson McCormick.

    He was influenced by his father, who patented early versions of the reaper, which were unsuccessful.

    His father passed the invention on to him and he perfected it soon after.

    Reaper
    His father, the inventor Robert Hall McCormick, worked for 28 years on a horse-drawn reaper. However, he was not able to finish his project and stopped developing it.

    Cyrus was given the project, and developed a final version of the reaper in 18 months.

    The reaper was demonstrated in tests in 1831 and was patented by Cyrus in 1834.

    In 1839 he and his brother moved to Chicago, where they established large centralized works for manufacturing agricultural implements; they were joined by their brother William in 1849.

    The McCormick reaper sold well, partially as a result of savvy and innovative business practices.

    Their products came onto the market just as the development of railroads offered wide distribution to distant market areas.

    He developed marketing and sales techniques, developing a vast network of trained salesmen able to demonstrate operation of the machines in the field.

    William H. Seward said of McCormick’s invention that owing to it “the line of civilization moves westward thirty miles each year.”

    One of the company’s most famous advertisement featured an epic painting by Emanuel Leutze with the slogan, “Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way with McCormick Reapers in the Van.”


  5. J // February 7, 2009 at 7:36 pm

    Yardbroom you wrote “William (Bill) Hewlett and David (Dave) Packard both graduated in electrical engineering from Stanford University in 1935.”

    Stanford then and now was and is an expensive private university. Who do you think supported Hewlett and Packard while they were at Stanford in the hard times of the 1930’s ?
    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    J

    You have twigged!!!

    Good for you.

    Sounds like they got alot of help from their families too, like McCormick.


  6. David the members of the “ruling class” share many things, but I do not think that colour is one of them.

    Members in this class will do business with each other first. If they have to go outside of the circle, it is not for too long, as a member or affiliate will open a business to offer that service or product.

    The competition is slowly eliminated as the majority black populace, who show no loyalty, rush to do business with the newcomers.


  7. J // February 7, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    And Yardbroom:

    Most business start-ups fail. This is so in every country of the world and among ALL peoples. It is NOT a thing peculiar to black people. It has NOTHING to do with colour.

    Historically most white people in Barbados who have gone in to business have failed. Historically there has been huge migration out of Barbados by white people. Do you think that white Barbadians migrated to the, United States, including huge numbers to the Carolinas, to Canada, to Australia and to the U.K because they were hugely successful at home?

    What we do need to do is to stop beating up on ourselves.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Flawed Logic J.

    Your first paragraph makes sense but the second, ……

    South Carolina was settled in the 1660’s out of Barbados. The only persons free to go would have been free men and women, not slaves and my bet is they would have gone because opportunity beckoned, not because of a business failure.

    My research also leads me to to conclude that many Bajan “White” families had relatives and property in America at the time.

    If slaves went they would have gone because their owners chose to take them.

    They would not have gone because of business failures.

    At the time of the Panama Canal it is estimated that 60,000 Bajans left to avail themselves of the opportunity for good wages and steady work.

    The majority of these could not have been “White” as it is accepted that the “White” population has been steady at 15,000 since the 1660’s!!!

    After the second world war rebuilding in Europe and England created the opportunity for emigration and right into the 1960’s Bajans of all colours took those opportunities.

    Again, it is not because of business failure.

    It is probably more accurate to say that after slavery, Bajans of all colours emigrated whenever they got the chance to better themselves and not because of business failures.


  8. David // February 7, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    @Juris

    If our memory is correct in the early 90s there was capital flight when the ruling class in Barbados wanted to visibly demonstrate that they had lost all confidence in the then Prime Minister Erskine Sandiford. The government along with drawing down on an IMF Standby line of credit begged the ruling class i.e.insurance companies et al to bring back the US dollars they had invested overseas.

    That is what we mean when we talk about economic power.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The Barbados Mutual Assurance Society would have been an insurance company in exixtence at the time.

    It was owned by the Policy Holders, many of whom I believe would have been Bajans.

    The BMLA became a limited liability company afterwards and I understand it the shares are publicly traded.

    Who owns Sagicor today and if such an appeal were made once more, what would happen?


  9. Dear John:

    You have mis-understood me.

    Most people indeed migrate because of perceived greater opportunities.

    The very rich tend not to migrate.

    The very poor often cannot afford to migrate (unless there is a sponsor, whether a government or an employer looking for labour)

    I know that enslaved people can’t make decisions about whether or not to migrate.

    I did not mean to imply that white Bajans (or black ones) were/are losers because they have migrated.

    My point was that then and now the richest, most successful people in any economy tend NOT to migrate.


  10. J // February 7, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    My point was that then and now the richest, most successful people in any economy tend NOT to migrate.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Not sure if I would agree with this.

    There were absentee owners of land in Barbados who owned estates in England and America as well as Barbados…. but they did not live in Barbados.

    Some left, some never came, some came and left, but those were probably the really successful ones whose holdings in other countries dwarfed their holdings in Barbados.

    Either their family here looked after their intersts or else they hired attorneys to do so.


  11. I could make a contribution to this debate and of course my contribution would stress the fact that we have negelected to teach our history and that we need to teach our history because of the liberating effects of the exercise.

    I am tired of the talk except the talk that will discuss action.

    When we are ready for action

    -Give Asiba a call.

    Talk is cheap.

    I grew up at Yoruba Yard where there were discussions, attended Hilary Beckles Emancipation Lectures in the 1980s at Queens Park, attended political discussions and lectures of all kinds all over the place. You

    In 2000s the blogs have arrived and the Talk continues. When will we have some ACTION ?———-

    –SLAVERY CONTINUES

  12. Jukecheckedeyskirt Avatar
    Jukecheckedeyskirt

    I am going to ask the question. What say ye is stopping black business persons from peradventuring into business. The answer to that question my friends has nothing to do with white people and their business but everything to do with what blacks seem impossible to do and that is, to pool their resources. To whom do we blame for this inability of ours to not come together – black indifference, lack of cohesion, the white man, the government, greed, all of the above…who?


  13. J // February 7, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    199 wrote “The subject of race will NEVER be put to rest because whites and other races will invariably, find our black colour objectionable.”

    So do you and they want to “fix” it?

    ********************

    J, thanks for the question and for some other very, interesting remarks. J, I should n’t mind fixing-it but I’ve given-up because I’ve found too many of our people too stupid to be worth the effort. Also, it’s a difficult problem to resolve but, although I know the answers, I’m not in a position to implement them nor can I be sufficently, bothered nor would sufficient people like me to become PM of Bim so I could get a chance to solve the problem, both in Bim and internationally!!


  14. Among ALL races the dysfunctional families are in the minority.

    ***************

    J, u may well be right in saying this but, in my *hitty part of Britain the opposite seems to be true!! Anyhow, hope you’re right for all our sakes!!


  15. Yardbroom, pray tell: how can we put anything ‘to rest’ when, for the most part, we don’t even acknowledge, the EXISTENCE, of each other!


  16. J, hearty congratulations! I think your posts are some of the most interesting and informative on this board! I always enjoy reading them!!


  17. The race talk (black/white) will always be present while there is a perception that the majority of white barbados, while enjoying the support of black barbadians in their businesses, are not too interested in any other form of interaction.

    This is further compounded by the difficulties, real and imagined, black businesses and individuals encounter when seeking to compete with them in economic activities.


  18. There is a time to fight and a time to walk away; good judgment determines which course of action is appropriate.

    Sometimes it is possible to have tilled the land for so long, that you do not realize there is no longer a need to till.

    To my dear brothers and sisters of the soil and others, love and as always respect.

    Goodbye my dear friends, goodbye.
    Yardbroom


  19. General Lee // February 8, 2009 at 9:32 am

    The race talk (black/white) will always be present while there is a perception that the majority of white barbados, while enjoying the support of black barbadians in their businesses, are not too interested in any other form of interaction.

    This is further compounded by the difficulties, real and imagined, black businesses and individuals encounter when seeking to compete with them in economic activities.
    ————————————————–
    So true.


  20. Good point GL.

    If we analyze in ABC terms. The minority Whites without a doubt still controls the economic power in Barbados. It makes it easier for that group to establish and sustain economic partnerships/businesses within their grouping for obvious reasons.

    On the other hand the dominant group of Blacks in Barbados have to rely on the system which is influenced by the controlling interest within our economic system. We will always have Blacks who will break through as individual successes but as a collective are we succeeding?


  21. There is a school of thought that this is a white man’s world and that the Black race is a cursed race: cursed by the white.


  22. So, After this long long debate….

    Where are we?

    Should the people of Barbados seek to lift themselves up with the opportunities afforded us by our ancestors?

    From the wealth exhibited by many Bajans, I would say that we are doing just that!

    Keep moving on and up… just don’t forget to give a helping hand to the less fortunate people in the community.

    Remember the past, but do not let it become a mill stone to weigh you down.


  23. @Yardbroom…..As long as there is land, there will be tilling. Why the frustration? Why are you giving in so easily? Not everyone will see it your way. Did you try to look at it like our brothers and sisters, the Dogon do. They look at it from the left,right,back and front, maybe you should try this too.However, if you chose to leave this density and enter the spirit dimension just holler back and let me know what the ancestors are saying to us.
    Hotep.


  24. You say: …”business opportunities are not possible to all races in equal measure commensurate with their percentage of the population in Barbados.”
    According to the great Bajan mystic Neville Goddard: “In life, you don’t get what you ‘want’, you get what you ‘are’.” As a man thinketh, so is he. Maybe more people should start believing they are capable. If they do, no one can keep it from them.


  25. Goodbye my dear friends, goodbye.
    Yardbroom

    *****************

    Yardbroom, where u going my friend?!!


  26. Maybe I will get chewed up for this post.

    This is how I feel. I feel that because I am white, If I ever say “I wish that the issue of race could be put to rest in Barbados” that it would just come across negatively for some reason. I’m not completely sure why I think that. I do wish it wasn’t such an issue.

    I can’t speak for rich white bajans. I can’t speak for rich black bajans. I can’t speak for anybody but myself, and sometimes I can’t even do that too eloquently!
    But I know my experiences. I have NEVER in my life witnessed or heard a YOUNG white bajan being racist. OF COURSE i’ve heard older people, which is sad. But young(er) people (like myself) I’ve never seen it.

    I’ve been told “I HATE white people” many times, do my face. What can I do but agree with them. I always would just agree, yes white people are the devil, of course. I wasn’t really sure what I did to upset them. I’ve been told “White bajans are the WORST people to meet” by a man on the beach who thought I was a tourist and wanted me to take his picture, after hearing my accent he realized I was a bajan and became a bit more hostile. Of course, being a minority, I laugh it off and agree. Apparently we “all have judges in our back pockets”…

    I guess I just deserve it right, for what the europeans people did to africans?

    Racism is a problem in Barbados. It goes all different ways.

    I know a lot of posts are about business. I can’t say I know much about the business and politics.

    I seen a group of white foreigners come down a couple years back, with tshirts saying “i’m sorry” walking down the ABC highway in chains and coffles… And I just shook my head. I said to myself, this is only going to stir up trouble… and it did. I don’t believe that ‘retribution’ is going to work to deal with this problem. I don’t think that if whites were imprisoned and ‘punished’ and ‘made to be sorry’ about “our” crimes that this would be settled.

    Who can figure out what needs to happen for race to no longer be an issue. What does that world look like where there is no such thing as racism.

    I am proud to be a Barbadian. I am proud to be a West Indian. I love me some puddin’ and souse as much as the next fella.

    I am you as you are me and we are all together.
    Until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, ..until the colour of a mans skin is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes….
    You know the speech.

    Let’s see what happens when I click submit.


  27. I don’t believe that ‘retribution’ is going to work to deal with this problem. I don’t think that if whites were imprisoned and ‘punished’ and ‘made to be sorry’ about “our” crimes that this would be settled.

    *************

    I guess you’re right because, whites r such icorrigible racist bastards that nothing anybody ever says or does will ever change them – or, hardly, anything!!

    Anyhow, welcome to my BLACK country where you can live without the evil of racism bothering you, day in and day out, far more than I can say, for yours!


  28. Once again. Where are we going?

    Isn’t xenophobia towards Guyanese racism?

    I have heard people saying that “the best Guyanese is a dead one!”…. “Dem Indo-Guyanese are too tieffin’ bout hey!”.

    I often hear “Yuh white so & so!” on the street…

    Not to mention the prejudice towards the darker of our kind! “MAN… He too Black doah… he purple!”

    Racism / prejudice comes in many forms and fashions.. .we as a people must come to realise that we have flaws and need to get over them.

    Don’t forget the past… build on it. Leave hatred behind and look instead to mend the bridges with love and knowledge.

    We, the people of Barbados, have the power to mold our future. Look forward to what you can build and not to what you can destroy.

    “[Love] If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.”- 1 Corinthians 13:1-3


  29. Race relations in Barbados will never be settle until there is an equitable allocation of the resources of this land.

    In Barbados today lest than 10% of the population owns about 80% of the resources of this land and that 10% is not the majority of us Blacks in Barbados.

    There is no level playing field in the business sector.Black business people are deliberately handicapp in their business ventures.We all know about the hassles that Black business people encounter when dealing with financial institutions.Even other Non Black business people put obstacles in the way of enterprising Black business people.

    There is the case with Neville Rowe of Julie N fame.Neville Rowe operated a very successful business enterprise that was the envy of many other Business people.I know for a fact that White business people of Barbados were extremely jealous of Nevile Rowe success.At the official opening of his mega store at Haggatt Hall,there was a conversation with some of the local Whites business people that attended that function. That conversation centred around the process that will bring down Neville Rowe.This is a fact.
    As usual I will ask anyone to come and dispute this fact.We all know the outcome of Neville Rowe business enterprise.It collapsed.

    I remembered our last Prime Minister Owen Arthur indicating that Neville Rowe & Julie N are Icons in the Black business community and it should not collapse.The former Caribbean Commercial Bank now RBBT Bank wanted to help Julie N & Neville Rowe.C O William,David Seale,Geoffrey Cave & other White business people told Caribbean Commercial Bank do not put one cent into bailing out Julie N or we will take out our money.Caribbean Comercial Bank could not help Neville Rowe.Similarly,Owen Arthur wanted to use government funds to help Julie N and that same bunch of mercenaries told Owen Arthur the same thing.Help Neville Rowe and we will pull out all our businesses and collapse the economy.Owen Arthur could not take one cent of tax payers money to help Neville Rowe.I know what I am talking about.I want anyone to come & dispute these facts.

    We must stop fooling ourselves there will never be unity between any of the ethnic groups in Barbados.The other ethnic groups despise Black people with a passion.They will only collaborate with us when there are financial and other benefits to be derive
    We being a race that is yearning for love & acceptance is constantly fool by the false smiles, token gestures & hand outs the other ethnic groups give us.We fool ourselves into thinking that those things are a sign that the other ethnic groups love us & accept us as a people.

    The rest of gullible Black People are tricked but not this Negroman..


  30. Negroman they aint tricking me either !


  31. We will never settle race relations in this country because some people don’t want for things to settle.

    People always talk about how white people control the economy in Barbados, I have never seem good evidence that this is the case. That white people control a disproportionate amount of resources is indisputable, but that same could be said of the Indian community, but that has not gone un-noticed either, unfortunately for some they can’t make the same lazy accusations about the Indians that they make about the Whites.

    People accuse the whites of not mixing, but if when they try to mix they get rebuffed buy a hostile minority they will stick with their own and those that choose to interact with them without hostility.

    And there is the small matter of numbers, I often here the argument of how white people don’t mix because ” I don’t know any white people” well if 2% of the Barbadian population is white then each white person will need to have at least 50 black friends in order for each black person to have a white friend.


  32. I guess you’re right because, whites r such icorrigible racist bastards that nothing anybody ever says or does will ever change them – or, hardly, anything!!

    Anyhow, welcome to my BLACK country where you can live without the evil of racism bothering you, day in and day out, far more than I can say, for yours!

    *******************

    I was born in Barbados. My mother is a Trinidadian, my father is a Jamaican, and they both grew up in Barbados.
    My grandfather was a Barbadian. That is my country as much as it is your country.

    “whites r such icorrigible racist bastards that nothing anybody ever says or does will ever change them – or, hardly, anything!!” Are you serious? And this kind of thing is O.K to say publicly with no problems whatsoever. If I were to say it another way, I would be the worst person in the world, which, apparently I am. I am bothered by racism all the time, so I don’t know what you’re talking about.

    I agree that it is a BLACK country, the majority of the population is BLACK and the government is all black. Who cares? the US now has a black president, THAT is an achievement. If a white person got in government in Barbados… Who cares.. I wouldn’t care. I wouldn’t vote for him just because he is white. I would vote for a person who I believe is competent, regardless of race.

    I’ve been told by someone how she has never really spoken to a white person, i was surprised, she said that from what she knew that we were all just snobby and not very nice people. I hope that I showed her otherwise.


  33. People who indentify themselves as White Barbadians and that I have had contact with, where very aloof, condesending, and segregated for the most part. One exception that comes to mind was Richard Williams, then GM at Sandy Lane, an intelligent man who had a way with words and public speaking. Unfortunately by the time i had met Richard my opinions where well formed and it took me sometime to view and reciprocate in kind to him. Unfortunately for him, he had attempted to change my mind about immigrating the US by imparted to me that racism was alive and thriving in he US. No doubt that there is an abundance of evidence to bolster that claim, but again My experience so far has been very different. I found my experience with Whites in America to be more of the Richard Williams kind which was the exception in Barbados. JUST MY EXPERIENCE THUS FAR. If um changes i will be sure to let you all know.

    Inspite of all of this, I have always been and continue be a fan Dick Hoad. 🙂


  34. Speaking of Hoad. His defense of Nelson statue remaining where it is, reminds me of another symbol of whites elsewhere that upsets some blacks when it is displayed.

    Whites in Barbados contends that the Nelson statue is part of our country’s history and his views of slavery then, should not be use to remove him from his current public perch.
    Likewise White in those some of those American States that are often referred to as Red or Red-neck states have the Confederate or Dixie flag which they defend as part of American history and should not be removed or banned from public display.

    Am i wrong? no similarity? tell me about it please!

    My view is consistent. It’s history, and needs to be accessible to all future generations, and not watered down, or sanitized…..Therefore I am building a Nelson replica in my backyard holding a dixie flag, um kinda looks like the Union jack. ha ha ha h lol!


  35. You! After reading those two post uh mine above, and in addition to all the usual spelling and grammar errors (is it grammer and grammar lol!) I realize that I had unintentionally linked white bajans to Whites living in the Sothern United States. Folks I did not deliberately set out to so do, but you must admit that there is some similarity between the yea and nay opinions for Nelson statue and the Dixie flag. Not of my making is it?


  36. “199 // February 7, 2009 at 5:03 am

    The subject of race will NEVER be put to rest because whites and other races will invariably, find our black colour objectionable and so, it will always be an issue until someday, millenia from now, when we’re all only coffee-coloured and, even then, human nature being what it is, people will probably, still be trying to see who’s slightly, darker than who to be prejudiced, against!! ”

    I’ve never found someone objectionable because of their skin. Ever.

    Two of my older siblings are in mixed marriages. Three of my nephews are black. I grew up never thinking about colour until I was literally told on the playground as a kid that I couldnt join in because I was too light. Like Adam, I’ve been cursed for being white, and told to my face “You better not mind, but I HATE white people”

    But it is me who finds another race objectionable? It is me who is racist?

    Some of my best friends are black. My best teachers throughout life have been black. I could never think to treat someone differently, insult them, make huge insulting and negative generalizations about them based off of their skin colour. It just doesnt make sense in my head.

    “199 – I guess you’re right because, whites r such icorrigible racist bastards that nothing anybody ever says or does will ever change them – or, hardly, anything!!”

    But tell me, this statement isnt racist?
    If there is any racism in me, I hope to see it an address it.

    “Anyhow, welcome to my BLACK country where you can live without the evil of racism bothering you, day in and day out, far more than I can say, for yours!”

    I doubt I’ve ever been severely negative effected by racism. I doubt it’s affected my grades or my ability to get into a school. I have not endured any hardship i would say due to race, but I do see the ‘evils’ of racism in the hate and prejudice that is spread with attitudes like this one.

    People have told me that I ‘act black’ meaning with some brought-up-sy, as if white people are evil. Sometimes they havent even taken the time to give others a chance. When i entered secondary school, before I opened my ridiculously shy and timid mouth I was told off for being white pretty much and called racist. And I hadnt even done or said or interacted with anyone yet!

    The mentality that white = racist without base, is destructive. It doesnt help anyone.

    “199
    – and until whites dismount from their high-horse of thinking that they invariably, know what’s best for blacks, better than the blacks, themselves!!”

    I don’t know whats best for blacks, white, pinks or purples. We’re all just people and I don’t think most of us know or even think we know whats best for EVERYONE.

    Don’t put words into the mouths of people you may not even know.

    As far as the business talk goes.

    I’m young and sheltered and don’t claim to know much.

    It seems to me though that on the surface what looks like a minority white, controlling large segments of the market ( the conglomerates such a BS&T, Simpson Mts, COW, etc) isn’t as black & white an issue as it seems (har har pun)

    In larger markets/economies there is ALSO the problem of big business monopoly. The companies that run the Franchises we all know by name, Walmarts and Kmarts and McDonalds etc. They take up the market and make it hard for small businesses to edge in. Make it hard for ANYONE to emerge in the market to grab a large segment of it.

    Yes. The big businesses here are largely run by whites (in some segments of society at least). But like the history earlier was pointed out, these family businesses built themselves into the mammoths they are over time.

    Its hard for ANYONE of any colour to edge into a market that has these big businesses. Maybe it doesnt boil down into the race issue as much as it seems at first.

    I’ll admit Bajan Whites look out for each other. The ‘who you know’ factor is very important. But if you get a job at ya uncles place or w.e. and play the ass you’ll get fire too. There are plentttttyy whites who have little struggling businesses who worry about paying the electricity bill as much as another. And still other whites who just plain ol work for someone and got to pay the rent liek everyone else and dont own any business either.

    My family dont own business and dont work for the big ‘white companies’ and I know other white bajans like that too.

    Its a hard thing class division. The solution isnt to just blame the *fill in the blanks* though.

    I don’t really know what it is… but surely embracing talk like 119’s isnt the healthiest option…

    or maybe I’m over-sensitive to insults aimed at me essentially cos I was born with skin that burns up easy! 😛


  37. Like Adam, I’ve been cursed for being white, and told to my face “You better not mind, but I HATE white people”

    But it is me who finds another race objectionable? It is me who is racist?

    ********************

    Tiffany, I find it extremely difficult to believe that this happened among CHILDREN!! I grew up among whites and blacks and don’t recall for one moment thinking about the colour of the kids until perhaps, I entered my teens! Any racist remarks would emanate from the white kids, not the black ones – in Britain!!

    Tiffany, your reply’s so long that I can’t read all of it right now but, suffice to say that I’ve lived among whites for many years and, if I had my way, I could do without seeing another one of them again, much more having anything to do with them!! Mind you, they’re light-years, more preferable than muslims!!


  38. The irony with Negroman, JC and 199 is that they all have the exact same attitudes as racist whites in reverse. It makes them as bad as the people they so despise. In the UK we have class, in the US it’s money, in Barbados it’s race. The cold, hard reality is that you can count the number of well known, wealthy white families on two hands. They get the publicity but it ignores the rest who are probably a bit better off than most for historical reasons but still have to struggle to make ends meet. Why if blacks in Barbados are such an underclass is it that 8/10 of the nice cars on the roads are driven by blacks ? Must be all those poor, ill-educated lawyers, doctors and executives who are being played by their white masters. Give me a break – your old-school racism is 40 years out of date. Take a leaf from Obama’s book and deal with the real issues – poverty (black or white), crime and education. Can’t blame other people all the time otherwise you’ll wake up one day at the bottom of the pile and suddenly realise, that it’s not a black and white problem, it’s a haves and have-nots problem. And that you’ll get screwed by a black big up just as fast as you’ll get screwed by a white one. Just like everywhere else in the world. Time to come out of the 1960’s everyone…


  39. “Tiffany, I find it extremely difficult to believe that this happened among CHILDREN!! I grew up among whites and blacks and don’t recall for one moment thinking about the colour of the kids until perhaps, I entered my teens! Any racist remarks would emanate from the white kids, not the black ones – in Britain!!”

    So you’re saying that you were in britain as a child?

    You were a minority who didn’t think about race until you entered your teens and encountered racists remarks made by the majority (white) kids.

    ^ THAT is exactly what I said I experienced (reversed) but you imply because you havent experienced it, it can be true?

    To clarify, ‘I hate whites’ comments didn’t come until later in life from teens and onward. If children exhibit racism of any sort it just means they are mimicking behavior that adults who know better are perpetrating.

    To clarify further these racist (or reverse racism) comments I generally put down to ignorance, not the majority opinion per say. But when individuals should know better and keep spreading prejudice I get a bit riled up quite honestly.

    “suffice to say that I’ve lived among whites for many years and, if I had my way, I could do without seeing another one of them again, much more having anything to do with them!! Mind you, they’re light-years, more preferable than muslims!!”

    Well, I’m honestly sad that you haven’t in all your years encountered individuals either white or muslim of character who could dispell these negative generalizations.

    And if you have, its sad that your racism has prevented you from seeing them as people of value based on their race or religion.

    and James1, so true. I live in a middle class neighbourhood as one of two white families there. My black neighbours have better cars, and more cars than my family does, and generally it seems more money. Which is great, they work hard and deserve it and happen to have better paying jobs than we do.

    Class division and racism are not synonymous.


  40. Adrian Hinds // February 10, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    You! After reading those two post uh mine above, and in addition to all the usual spelling and grammar errors (is it grammer and grammar lol!) I realize that I had unintentionally linked white bajans to Whites living in the Sothern United States.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    .. but Adrian, they are linked, South Carolina was settled out of Barbados in the 1660’s and it would mainly have been Bajan “whites” and not “blacks” that went.

    In fact the similarities in family names architecture etc. are well known and would also support what you stumbled on unintentionally.

    … but then too, the framers of the Declaration of Independence which predates the American Civil War, secession and confederacy by almost 100 years had Barbadian roots.

    Many of the sentiments expressed therein can also be found in the Charter of Oistins signed in 1651 by Bajan “whites” and England.

    The origins of America and Barbados are inextricably intertwined.

    This is a simple inescapable fact.

    Next time you have a conversation with an American “white” remember he or she may be a descendant of a Bajan “white”.

    Bajans are everywhere!!

    You can’t escape them by going to America.

    I once met a couple from Australia researching an ancestor of the husband who left Barbados 200 years ago.

    Turns out I was also researching the same person who was my ancestor as well!!


  41. AH

    You imply that all white Barbadians are against the removal of Nelson’s statue… I think you can find people, both Black and White that are for or against the removal of Nelson’s statue.

    What I believe irritated the majority of white Barbadians was the call (or perceived call) for Nelson to be removed because he was white,( and we could not have a white person in Heroes’ square) rather than his views of slavery.


  42. Astrix

    What were Nelson’s views of slavery?


  43. My understanding (and possible inaccurate as I have never researched this myself ) were that he supported the slave trade.

    I have found the below quote but I don’t have the time to see how well attributed it is.

    Admiral Horatio Nelson, a national hero by any standard, vigorously opposed the abolition of the slave trade, believing that to stop it would mean handing it over the French. He declared he would defend the rights of the slave owners and traders “while I have an arm to fight in their defence, or a tongue to launch my voice against the damnable doctrine of Wilberforce and his hypocritical allies”. His Royal Navy dedicated immense resources to protecting slavers.


  44. Many Black Barbadians prefer not to deal with real issues confronting us as a race of people and also as a marginalized ethnic group who was dominated and continues to be dominated by other ethnic groups especially the murderous Europeans.

    Blacks in Barbados are a peculiar set of people.We have the financial & economic power in Barbados yet we do not control the majority of the resources of this island.

    We are the majority in the country and the business community depends on our patronage for those businesses survival. Our sheer numbers can either make or destroy businesses in Barbados.yet those same businesses treat us like dirt and shut us out.
    It is not surprising though because the legacy of slavery is still within many of us and we are controlled & manipulated by the other ethnic groups through their institutions especially the church.

    The other ethnic groups are the ones who should be begging us for relief.The Black race in Barbados is in the majority but are crying out about racism being meted out to us by the other ethnic minorities. It seems we will never wake up.

    . Mop & Glo I am proud of you seeking out Black owned businesses to do your shopping.I do likewise.If many more Black People could operate like you,JC & me we as a people will make tremendous progress.Unfortunately many of us do not operate that way.The status qou dictates to many wanna be token Blacks that those foolish Blacks must do their shopping at JB,s Super Centre,Big B or some other big supermarket operated by white people and frequented by whites.It is a status thing for many of those ignorant Black people.I am sick & tire of hearing Black people criticising other Black people for not supporting Black businesses.Ask those same people where they do their shopping and I am sure many of them shop at the supermarkets I highlighted.How many of them shop at the mini marts in their communities like I do.Those Black hum bugs just talk and do little or nothing to advance the cause of the Black race.Those Black hum bugs should just shut up.

    Indian,Chinese & White businesses in Barbados do not count Negroman’s money.I do not shop at those establishments..If I can not do any better I might go into Cave Shepherd & buy merchandise that I could not get at Black owned enterprises.That is the only concession I make.I know for sure no Indian or Chinese will ever count this Negroman money.


  45. One exception that comes to mind was Richard Williams, then GM at Sandy Lane, an intelligent man who had a way with words and public speaking
    =====================================
    AH you were conned.
    People like me who were employed by the golf club when Richard Williams was hotel manager hold the opposite view. He fits snugly into AWBB ie Average White Bajan Bigot. What is he up to now? He was close to Muscle Mary Lynch in a “marriage of convenience” when MM was a Minister of Government.
    Show me a Bajan white who likes, admires and appreciates blacks and I will show you Lord Nelson with two eyes and two hands.


  46. Astrix // February 11, 2009 at 11:55 am

    My understanding (and possible inaccurate as I have never researched this myself ) were that he supported the slave trade.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    There is always a difficulty when a single quote is taken from a person long gone as an indicator of that persons views were.

    A few words do not sum up a life.

    Here is a quote taken from Wilberforce in 1807 on emancipation.

    “It would be wrong to emancipate (the slaves). To grant freedom to them immediately, would be to insure not only their masters’ ruin, but their own. They must (first) be trained and educated for freedom.”

    Are we to assume that Nelson was against the abolition of the slave trade and Wilberforce was against the abolition of slavery?


  47. Here is the excerpt I took that quote from which I found on the internet.

    Some people involved in the anti-slave trade campaign such as Thomas Fowell Buxton, argued that the only way to end the suffering of the slaves was to make slavery illegal.

    Wilberforce disagreed, he believed that at this time slaves were not ready to be granted their freedom. He pointed out in a pamphlet that he wrote in 1807 that: “It would be wrong to emancipate (the slaves). To grant freedom to them immediately, would be to insure not only their masters’ ruin, but their own. They must (first) be trained and educated for freedom.”

    In 1823 Thomas Fowell Buxton formed the Society for the Mitigation and Gradual Abolition of Slavery. Buxton eventually persuaded Wilberforce to join his campaign but as he had retired from the House of Commons in 1825, he did not play an important part in persuading Parliament to bring an end to slavery.


  48. @Oriole cookie
    You may be right i don’t know. I was merely relating MY experience of a relationship. A relationship that took off after Richard learned of my no nonsense comments to a British visitor who had bloodied his step-daughter, after a failed sexual attempt . This Brit attempted to intimidate me, and i had to remind him that I am at home (barbados) and he is not, and therefore it is nigh impossible for him to intimidate me in any fashioned, and that if he persist and did not back down that he was in great danger, of getting his ass kicked. I grew up with a strange conviction that it is never to be allowed, that anyone should win a confrontation with me in my own backyard. 🙂
    Anyway I did say it was unfortunate for him (Richard Williams) to try to talk me out of moving to the US, since i believe he had since then taken up an appointment at the Barbados consulate in New York City. Don’t know what has become of him since the change of Government. The man loved his liquor. Come to think of it he was the first person that i heard talked about migrant workers and he did so out of fustration with a work stoppage at Sandy Lane. Todate is difficult not to see CSME and the march towared free movement of labour as the brain child of greedy Bajan and caribbean business owners, and their political servants.


  49. Astrix // February 11, 2009 at 11:06 am

    AH

    You imply that all white Barbadians are against the removal of Nelson’s statue… I think you can find people, both Black and White that are for or against the removal of Nelson’s statue.

    What I believe irritated the majority of white Barbadians was the call (or perceived call) for Nelson to be removed because he was white,( and we could not have a white person in Heroes’ square) rather than his views of slavery.
    =========================
    Wow I didn’t know that i was merely implying such. Do me a favour “sir” find me at least 5 white bajans who differ from the majority on the Nelson issue, and prove that this has been the case for as long as the issue was around, and I will retract.

    Indeed there are blacks who are against the removal. I am one of them. 🙂


  50. “Show me a Bajan white who likes, admires and appreciates blacks and I will show you Lord Nelson with two eyes and two hands.”

    I’m sure if someone showed you, you’d refuse to admit it anyway.

    quite honestly I’ve never thought about patronizing one business over another based on the race of the owners.

    I have considered where I chose to place my money based on the conduct of companies (on a global scale, do they employ sweat shops etc)
    on a local level it never occured to me.

    what are some of the instances of bad business ethics the big bad white companies are perpetrating? ( i honestly dotn know much of the issue)

    “yet those same businesses treat us like dirt and shut us out.”

    I’ve never heard someone I know get maltreated by a company because of their race…anyone have instances of this?

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