For members of the BU family who are not confined to navel gazing and would cast eyes across the pond.
Projection of Seats: Conservatives 368 Labour 191 SNP 55 LD 13 – Majority of 86
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15 December 2019
Boris and Conservatives Win BIG
396 responses to “Boris and Conservatives Win BIG”
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So back to the main topic AND I WILL CONTINUE TO UNDERSCORE MY MESSAGE HERE
“…McDonnell also acknowledged that the approach to social media was different. “In 2017, we dominated social media. We were more creative than the Tories. This time around, the Tories were much more creative. They certainly outspent us in the last week,” he said, also mentioning the Australian agency used by the Conservative Party…”
When de ole man started with de Stoopid Cartoons in 2015, the psychographic warfare was in a nascent phase globally!
Few countries used it CERTAINLY NONE IN THE WEST INDIES!
Me and me grandson were pioneers!
In fact de ole man would share a story but…
The point here is Disseminating the message proactively.
The MCdonnell denouement continues “Repeating his apology to MPs and campaigners for the failure to deliver a Labour government, McDonnell advised listeners to explore how it may be possible to “bypass the media dominance our opponents have”, noting: “Initially we thought social media and broadcast media, but they’ve caught up on us with that…”
Bypass the media dominance their opponents have LIKE LUCILLE MOE NOW BEING THE HEAD OF CBC REPORTING LIES!!!
How many people see the similarities before their very eyes?
Or who gives a FVUCK???
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Steuspe
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IS THAT A CHORUS OR IS IT A MUSICAL SIGNAL LIKE SELAH IN THE PSALMS?
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Barbados IS AT WAR!
A WAR WITH SOCIAL ISSUES, economic issues, political issues and most of all SPIRITUAL ISSUES!
54 UNOFFICIAL DEATHS display the social elements we contend with, in addition to the garbage situation, the heath situation at the QEH
We living under a serious IMF AUSTERITY CRISIS speaks partially of our economic woes.
We have what is a de facto 30 to 0 government GIVEN THAT THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION CLAIMS THAT THE BLP IS GOING TO DO A GOOD JOB and refuses to up his Opposition to offend someone whom many believe IS HIS BOSS! MIA MOTTLEY!
And, we live with a collectively paralyzed church AND ONE OF THE FEW COMMENTATORS IN THIS DIGITAL SPACE GIVES PAID TO DE OLE MAN’S statements of us being in a spiritual war WITH FEW AUTHENTIC WARRIORS.
So when contend with matters Bajan when Borris and Donald form the order of the day?
My answer is “because Boris nor Donald, do not give one badword bout Barbados so we gots to keep focused on our own issues notwithstanding efforts to shift us northwards!
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Nicola Sturgeon: Scotland ‘cannot be imprisoned’ in UK
Nicola Sturgeon told the BBC’s Andrew Mar Show that Scotland ‘cannot be imprisoned’ in UKScotland “cannot be imprisoned in the union against its will” by the UK government, Nicola Sturgeon has said.
The Scottish first minister says the SNP’s success in the general election gives her a mandate to hold a new referendum on independence.
However, UK ministers are opposed to such a move with Michael Gove saying the vote in 2014 should be “respected”.
Ms Sturgeon told the BBC that if the UK was to continue as a union, “it can only be by consent”.
She told The Andrew Marr Show that the UK government would be “completely wrong” to think saying no to a referendum would be the end of the matter, adding: “It’s a fundamental point of democracy – you can’t hold Scotland in the union against its will.”
However Mr Gove told the Sophy Ridge programme on Sky that “we were told in 2014 that that would be a choice for a generation – we are not going to have an independence referendum in Scotland”.
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@Piece the Legend December 15, 2019 10:19 AM “THE UK WANTS NO BROWNING IN THEIR POT, notwithstanding ms. Markle.”
The browning dun happen already. It began in 1492 or thereabouts. It cannot be undone.
When my children were very young, you know how children are, they like to ask difficult questions, and we have been taught that God is omnipotent, but yet iIasked them to consider “if even an omnipotent God can undo the past”
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@ SirSimple SimonPresidentForLife December 16, 2019 4:05 PM
I agree with your post about newly born.. However one does not live in an utopian world and there are things that occur that one does not approve of, but it is the way the world works. There will always be racism, nationalism and religion. One can try to get of them, but one faces an impossible task.
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I had posted this already but…
“…@ the People’s Party for Democracy and Development
De ole man, to wunna, WILL SEEM UNORTHODOX in my message to you.
In that I started her AND IN ALL MY MESSAGES TO THE PdP, AT WHAT IS THE ENDPOINT!
Unlike Ironsides, the Pretender, I did not do a SLOW WORKUP TO THIS TOPIC.
I started rough WITH THE MESSAGE “Reverend Atherley MUST NOT LEAD YOU IN THE 2021 GENERAL ELECTIONS ”
I understand how he and all of you must feel so, I bringing you all up to where de ole man is in the future I will rely on the recent UK LABOUR PARTY PAST!
“…“I don’t think our narrative was good enough – or simple enough,” John McDonnell declared in a Momentum conference call joined by over 3,000 people on Sunday evening.
In a bid to kick-start the reflection process, the Shadow Chancellor shared his thoughts on Labour’s campaign.
McDonnell said: “I don’t think we were really effective at getting our message across…”
At 2019, THE PdP IS NOT EFFECTIVE IN GETTING ANY MESSAGES ACROSS!
You are a politically unknown party WITH ONE FIGUREHEAD, who is not tarnished with the word BETRAYAL!
Let us dispassionately discuss this word AND HOW MIA MOTTLEY IS GOING TO WIPE HER ASS WITH ATHERLEY, while revisiting it!
And then advance further along to this point, BALLOT DAY!
What will be the outcome of there being a new party on the block WITH A BETRAYER AT ITS HELM?
The self examination of the Labour defeat continues
“…And that’s a lesson for future campaigns.
In Jeremy’s leadership campaigns, and in 2017, we had one message.
It was very straightforward: end austerity, for the many not the few…”
Have you guys understood what de ole man is saying yet?
Merely by Reverend Joe Atherley canvassing in St Michael North East, Mia Mottley ‘s constituency BECOMES THE MESSAGE!
EVERY RH BAJAN WILL UNDERSTAND
“Barbados is for ALL BAJANS, NOT JES MIA MOTTLEY AND SHE FAMILY”
These field and hill beyond recall are now for ALL OF US, NOT JES MUGABE!
Listen to de ole man AND WIN, do anything else AND WUNNA WILL LOSE!…”
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@ the Honourable Blogmaster your assistance please with an item here for the PdP
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@ the Honourable Blogmaster
In your post above you floated a very important issue per Scotland and its threat to disjoin from the Union
You requoted this item
“…Nicola Sturgeon told the BBC’s Andrew Mar Show that Scotland ‘cannot be imprisoned’ in UK
Scotland “cannot be imprisoned in the union against its will” by the UK government, Nicola Sturgeon has said…”
Having been wise enough to zoom in on the article would you care to provide any thoughts about how this secession from the UK Union will work in practice?
So you dont think I am tricking you into detailing if you have any ideas formed that extrapolate on this concept, tell me what would a carte of Fench wine experience IF THE SECESSION WAS TO BE PERMITTED
Like the Castellano secession was “permitted”
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Hal Austin
December 15, 2019 2:47 PM@PLT
I am not sure if this is a joke. We a re all black and descendants of slaves. At most, many of us are two, three at most four generations away from slavery. We are not bourgeois, but working class black people weho had a bit of luck. You cannot move in and out of class. A university degree or a big home does not mean you are no longer working class.
That is the problem in Barbados. The sons and daughters of carpenters, messengers, cane cutters, etc became lawyers and suddenly they feel no longer part of the working class. I know one top lawyer whose father was a messenger and he would not even allow his children to visit the Ivy, where he grew up.
You are not bourgeois, @PLT, you are one lucky bugger of a working class guy. Get real.+++++++++++++++++++++
Lemme translate into Marxian terminology for you as it applies to a capitalist society.
In a capitalist society everybody is first a member of the proletariat, working class.
That’s how they are born.
Unless they work for free they pay taxes on their income.
One becomes a member of the bourgeoisie by choice.
Invitation cements the induction.
Lawyers are members of the proletariat/working class … they pay taxes.
They choose to become a member of the bourgeoisie until someone already in the bourgeoisie notices them and invites them in.
Once in they toe the line, but not all do.
Some members of the bourgeoisie are also members of the proletariat.
The properly converted hate the class to which they belonged because they are members of a false fraternity and they are always just one step from exposure.
The problem is children have big mouths and will reveal the secrets of their father.
So Hal, that is one reason why they were not allowed in the Ivy.
In a capitalist society, members of the proletariat have money because they earn it through work.
True members of the bourgeoisie live by their wits.
However, those who are also members of the proletariat earn their way.
All Trump has to do is keep the economy growing and the jobs coming.
The proletariat/working class, his voters will benefit and his place is assured.
He makes inroads not only into the proletariat but also the bourgeoisie.
The truly bourgeoisie Democrats hate the proletariat and their leader ….. viz PLT!!
Their response is to sabotage and undermine and deny the economy is growing.
That’s why barring something unforeseen Trump’s base of voters, the proletariat some of whom are also bourgeoisie will grow and he will waltz back in.
Somehow the Democrats need to stop it!!
PLT is bourgeoisie because PLT chose to be bourgeoisie.
Some of the poor whose cause he claims to espouse are members of both the proletariat AND bourgeoisie.
It is very possible to find a poor member of the bourgeoisie, I suspect King Dyal (Dial) was an example but don’t know his circumstances.
Just a little more BS on Marxian terminology which makes sense … atleast to me.
Like the Trump clip, designed to make bourgeoisies expose themselves!!
Works every time.
Whoever put that Trump clip together understands human nature to a tee!!
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@Hal
The issue is not to paint in detail how such a new democratic society would work in every detail since this is impossible. What I’m presenting is broad principles which would underpin such a society. How exactly these would be realised would depend on how it actually turns out in reality and we also have to recognise that such a political system would also be subject to its own process of growth and development. That having been said, I’ll give you my response to your questions.
Under the current system are elected representatives not accountable to the electorate?
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Definitely not. Accountability implies a power relationship in which the person giving account does so to an individual/body in a more powerful position. In the Westminster system, the electorate has power only during the election. Once the vote is cast, the decision making power is gone until the next election. I could give many examples to demonstrate this but will stick with one. An individual presents himself to the electorate in his constituency as standing on the programme of a particular party. However, as soon as he’s elected, he declares that he no longer supports that party and instead sets up a new party in opposition to the party on whose platform he gained people’s votes. In all of this, the electorate can do nothing but complain and sit and wait for the next election.In a modern society, how can you have direct participatory democracy, how would it work? For example, Barbados with a population of about 300000 has to sign a treaty, would that mean all 300000 people signing that treaty as a form of direct democracy?
##############################################################################################The issue here is not one of numbers of people but of the political system and its mechanisms. Research into traditional democratic forms of governance in Africa have found that these sytems sometimes comprised people way in excess of 300,000. The Igbo of Nigeria lived under such a political system and they number in the millions. Of course the Igbo didn’t have access to the type of modern technology that we can now draw on. I’m not suggesting that we simply try to repeat what the Igbo did. What I’m arguing is that we need a new type of democracy and that in thinking about how it might work there are many principles in traditional democratic political systems which should be looked at. It doesn’t mean that there wouldn’t be a government, a legislature, courts and all the various organisations of the state. The thing is that these would reflect the basic test of being of the people, by the people and for the people.
How would we settle differences of views from the various sections of society?
####################################################This is a critical issue and in fact touches on one of those principles I mentioned earlier. The Westminster system is based on adversarial confrontation and a winner takes all approach. This runs through not only its political system but also its judicial system. In many traditional African democracies, this issue is approached from two angles. First there is the recognition that even when people have the same interests, they may end up perceiving these differently. To address this issue, these societies advocate for rational discussion as the road to recognising awareness of common interests. Comparing this to the recent election in the UK, where rational discussion was replaced by lies, disinformation and character assassination, I think indicates one significant difference in the two systems. Secondly, recognising that society is made up of individuals and social groups with different interests and priorities and that there is a need to reconcile these not only with each other but also with the needs of the general society, they propose a political culture of building comprimises and seeking consensus. So the issue is one of building a political culture in which options are discussed rationally and in which we actively seek to find common ground that takes account of individual, sectional and societal interests.
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David it is a discussion forum after all so yes sometimes I do have a “… never ending desire to respond”.
These are quite intelligent, book smart folks (and hands on accomplished, too) and to see the complete illogic written by some so consistently actually startles me to drop a line or two.
So yes I do have this incredible inclination to get an understanding.
@PLT, your former school colleague is a puzzle to me.
I was impressed with what I accepted as well researched, objective data on the Quakers and his other historical info but after he then started to write on Trump and so shamelessly and non-objectively repeated debunked theories and provable falsehoods I completely reassessed my original perspectives.
That was on one hand unfortunate but on the other a very good thing as it reminded me not to take anyone or anything said as legitimate until reaffirmed otherwise!
I recall that as a naive youngman I was “confused” when Bajan historians tore a piece off local top scholarly historian FAB Hoyos… I recall attacks that bias badly clouded HIS-tory of our nation.
This circumstance here with ur colleague sharply reminded me of the angst and mistrust of that Hoyos episode.
The more things change, the more they remain the same I imagine!
I gone.
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Continuing on with the examination of the failed Corbyn campaign
Who are these people Rebecca Long-Bailey and Angela Raynor?
And why has Rebecca Long-Bailey been shortlisted as the next Labour Party leader and Angela Rayner as the next Labour deputy leader?
This is because white people have a clear understanding about succession and how to win WHEREAS black people DO NOT!
The quandary with the critically required succession plan of the PdP while unwelcome by a few observers here on Barbados Underground MUST BE UNDERTAKEN BY THE PEOPLE’S PARTY FOR DEMOCRACY AND DEVELOPMENT!
Let de ole man show you how there is a subtlety in planning that WHILE WUNNA DOES MISS THEM, de ole man does not miss a heartbeat.
Yesterday the 301 st comment here on Barbados Underground was a STEUPSEEE by the Honourable Blogmaster
He had decided to suppress my comment to the PdP advising Atherley NOT TO LEAD THE PDP, an unknown entity into the election.
It was among the last comments on the 2nd page of this blog.
And its content contained a rationale that he as Minister of Disinformation DID NOT WANT TO BE SEEN.
So he kills the item AND HIS STEUPSEEE becomes item 1 on page 3!
That image is not going to reflect properly on him so he adds the item and another of the ole man’s comments lead in the page.
The thing about this non item enacted by the Honourable Blogmaster is IMPACT!
De ole man IS AN EXPERT ON IMPACT (dat going get dem vexed and “flamed”) and it is based on such expertise that the PdP AN UNKNOWN THIRD PARTY MOVEMENT ACTOR has to advance the known Senator Caswell Franklyn while Atherley is shifted to the symbolic fight against Mugabe.
Look even Bedroom Policeman aka Grenville Phillips sees the genius in that move AND HATES IT ergo his assault pun de poor ole man recently UNDER DE GUISE OF PROTECTING ATHERLEY.
A man who Grenville’s paymaster Mugabe Mottley called a Judas Iscariot
And so that the lies by Grenville Phillips are exposed here is evidence
Reverend Joseph Atherley your party has 14 months since, AFTER THE FAILURE OF THE GATHERING 2020, Mugabe Mottley going call Elections
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after he then started to write on Trump and so shamelessly and non-objectively repeated debunked theories and provable falsehoods I completely reassessed my original perspectives.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Just for some fun while you are in your regressive state!!
Give us a couple of your debunked theories!!!
Do you dispute the fact that Trump leads the workers of America, the proletariat?
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@ Tee Whit
There are two things: a theoretical approach and a practical one to how we are governed. If you are talking about a theory of democracy, then that is different to designing one that politicians and citizens must follow. So ‘broad principles’ cannot apply if the intention is to apply those principles to practicality.
I quoted the Athenian model of citizens democracy. Let us say, for example, using that Greek example, that citizens of Athens voted to go to war against Sparta by a majority, but the following day, people changed their minds and wanted to vote to recall the warriors. In the meantime, and based on the first vote, the warriors had departed from Athens to challenge Sparta. What happens then? Do they go to war against the wishes of the people? Or in our system of democracy people do not have a right to change their minds?
Do we have a system of Westminster governance in Barbados? If so, plse describe it? Under our system, as I understand it, the people (ie voters) have the power. They delegate power to members of parliament by electing them individually; the majority of members who follow a single leader then form the ruling party; and that ruler is delegated the authority to appoint a Cabinet.
The Cabinet then becomes a Cabinet of equals, with the leader being first among equals. The party/group pf members then have to return to the electorate after five years with a further promise, or manifesto. Is this not basically how our system works?
If it is the adversarial system you oppose, how about a government of national unity? For a good example of direct participatory democracy versus parliament democracy, have a look at the UK. After two general elections, a referendum and a European election, the nation is still divided.
Do you believe this is because the electorate is not fully informed? I promise you, this has been one of the most sophisticated political debates to be found anywhere in the world. The real problem is the Athenian problem.
I will end by pointing out again. What we have in Barbados has nothing to do with the Westminster system apart from the broad framework. The crisis of democracy in the UK is the result of an incompetent politician, David Cameron, playing fast and loose with the institution of British democracy.
His idea of a fixed term Act and the nonsense of a referendum have left the UK where it is today. One good thing about the Boris Johnson government is that they plan to get rid of the Fixed Term Act and referenda.
To paraphrase Churchill, democracy may have its flaws, but there is nothing better as yet. -
Do we have a system of Westminster governance in Barbados? If so, plse describe it? Under our system, as I understand it, the people (ie voters) have the power. They delegate power to members of parliament by electing them individually; the majority of members who follow a single leader then form the ruling party; and that ruler is delegated the authority to appoint a Cabinet.
The Cabinet then becomes a Cabinet of equals, with the leader being first among equals. The party/group pf members then have to return to the electorate after five years with a further promise, or manifesto. Is this not basically how our system works?+++++++++++++++++++++
We do have a West-minister style governance in Barbados …. every body in the House is a minister of governance and Barbados is part of the West Indies
Reverend Joe is the minister of opposition affairs.
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So, after the PdP shifts into WINNING MODE and Reverend Joseph Atherley challenges Mugabe Mottley in St. Michael North East Senator Caswell Franklyn will be advanced as the leader of the PdP.
The real work of advancing the PdP as the solution for Barbados IS FAR FROM OVER.
DE OLE MAN has been suggesting that limited scope, affordable, community outreach models must be the mechanism that the PdP uses to gain meaningful foothold in Barbados
Remember that Mugabe has tax money to flit around the place but, IN ORDER TO COUNTER HER CORN BEEF AND BISCUIT STRATEGIES, the PdP must be seen to be more involved in all community projects and outreaches no matter what Mugabe is offering
The PdP must be seen as the entity which, EVEN THOUGHT STARVED OF ITS ENTITLEMENTS,is helping to address the immediate issues of constituents and being concerned with the issues of the working man and woman.
as an accomplished Union Representative Caswell Franklyn easily can represent and interact with marginalised communities.
This is the currency that the PdP will then leverage and build strong grassroots communities so that all the candidacy OF THE ENTIRE PARTY builds on and grows from this organic advocacy.
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Let us say, for example, using that Greek example, that citizens of Athens voted to go to war against Sparta by a majority, but the following day, people changed their minds and wanted to vote to recall the warriors. In the meantime, and based on the first vote, the warriors had departed from Athens to challenge Sparta. What happens then? Do they go to war against the wishes of the people? Or in our system of democracy people do not have a right to change their minds?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hypothetically, they come back home!!!
An example in practice from the real world to introduce some realism into hypothetical situations.
Neither the Israeli Knesset nor the Israeli people had approved Operation Thunderbolt when Israeli commandos took off for their raid on Entebbe in the 1970’s.
The people did not even know.
The Knesset approved the raid when the commandos were well under way!!
People in Britain voted for BREXIT in the referendum and confirmed their vote in the election.
People rarely change their minds on important decisions.
Even with no decision, the commandos knew the decision would be a go once they were in the air and proceeded accordingly.
The matter was too serious for there to be any other decision.
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One good thing about the Boris Johnson government is that they plan to get rid of the Fixed Term Act and referenda.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Will he call a referendum to decide?
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@ Tee White, Piece, Hal Austin, et al,
Here is an extraordinary debate amongst two giants of the Labour Party tussling and debating whether Britain should remain or withdraw from the common market. The Prime Minister at the time was Jim Callaghan. It truly was a cabinet of equals. -
@ TLSN
I remember the debate. The quality of MPs we had then was remarkable. Now we have people like Boris. But this is important. While Roy Jenkins, or Woy as he was called, was pro EEC, Tony Benn went to hs grave disliking the idea. Corbyn, a follower of Benn, got caught in that 1970s trap. But the world has moved on.
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@ Talking Loud Saying Nothing
It becomes evident from your submissions here on Barbados Underground that your polemical skills are honed to the maximum.
Brimlers here on Barbados Underground WILL HAVE A SERIOUS DIFFICULTY WITH YOU or any mind that seeks to use copious materials to put context to current decisions.
A wise man being faced with decisions would, in the absence of being able to benefit from a view of the future, go back to a past AND WHILE IT MAY BE THAT THE PRESENT HAS SIGNIFICANTLY MORE VARIABLES, be able to argue reasonably on that present.
This 51 minute video of which I just saw 30 suggests to me the following and I will use your remarks to comment further.
“…Here is an extraordinary debate amongst two giants of the Labour Party tussling and debating whether Britain should remain or withdraw from the common market…”
Here are men of significant grey matter conversing intelligently for 50 minutes.
Compare such with our set of idiots WHO CANNOT EVEN DEBATE FOR 5 MINUTES!
But what is even more incredible than this is a televised debate on the then highly publicized Panorama BY TWO LABOUR MPs!
I am wondering if people seeing this understand the gravity of this debate!
Here I am prosecuting the matter of how Reverend Joseph Atherley and Senator Caswell Franklyn implement a Role Change for the PdP AND A CLOWN CALLED GRENVILLE PHILLIPS AKA BEDROOM POLICEMAN is talking about betrayal!
Yet, in 1970 something you have these minds debating competing ideas ON A NATIONAL STAGE!!!
You see where we are 40 years later TLSN?
With developmentally impaired minds of megalomaniacs like Grenville Phillip and dictators like Mugabe Mottley AN ENTIRE NATION LED BY DUFUSES.
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PIECE
YOU ARE QUITE CORRECT, AND MAKING SENSEATHERLY SHOULD STEP ASIDE AND LET FRANKLYN LEAD
ATHERLY IS A FOLLOWER NOT A LEADER
HE NEEDS TO KNOW HIS PLACE AND HIS ROLEYOU WILL BE CALLED TRAITOR, BETRAYER AND EVEN SCRIBE AS I WAS CALLED TODAY BY HE WHO HAS NO SOLUTIONS FOR BARBADOS –ONLY A DEFLATED EGO
THIS PDP YOU ALWAYS TALKING BOUT LIKE THEY NOT GETTING THEIR ACT TOGETHER THOUGH
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@ Dr. GP my fellow myope
Intelligent men discuss ideas, and abstract concepts, lesser men can only discuss things that they touch and can see!
John Q
He is a blogger here who always talks about the Quakers and their contribution to the Emancipation of Slaves.
Say what you will about his other beliefs he IS A THINKER!
And this is always the common ground for men who are thinkers, we recognise that there are issues that we cannot see eye to eye on but, when for example you float a concept about Trump, I have to take a step back and examine it, even though I have my biases
I simply cant read people like Grenville Phillip not because I am arrogant or think I am smarter than anyone (de Blogmaster say so) but because he is first among dufuses.
He is pedantic in his thoughts, absurdly pedantic!
I cant do that too long.
Let me share with you what I call my “threshold” as far as it relates to the People’s Party for Democracy and Development!
It is defined by 1 marker.
If Joseph Atherley DOES NOT ACTIVATE THE PdP Election Machinery BEFORE MUGABE MOTTLEY LAINCHES 1 National Initiative the has real traction, all bajans will know that he is a plant.
Because it will mean DEFINITIVELY that she, MUGABE, is pulling his strings!!
Then it will be time to explore VARIANT 2 OF OPTION 1!
But the fact is as follows, certain factions HAVE OBSERVED THE MUGABE REGIME DICTATORSHIP & …
I was concerned when he, a priest, has been noticeably quiet about 54 unofficial deaths BECAUSE PRIESTS WILL ALWAYS SPEAK OUT ABOUT THESE THINGS but the silence is deafening now
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@ John Q
I wish to ask you this question since, OF ALL THE CONSTITUTIONAL POLEMICISTS REMAINING HERE ON BU, you alone fall into the category that thinks this government is unconstitutional!!
What if, Lord Forbid, the Almighty God called home Joseph Atherley tonight!
Would the constitutional crisis loom again?
And would such invalidate the Government of Barbados being a valid government WITH NO OPPOSITION?
And would the Senatorships of Caswell Franklyn and Crystal Drakes cease?
Would there be a by election called in St Michael West?
Would the BLP run Lauron Gibbs and again risk another 30 to 0 result?
Would the DLP field a candidate? An old one, or a new one? Who?
Of course I expect nuff people to come here and say dat de ole man want Joe dead but is not death inevitable? Or is Joe, being a man of the cloth, not going to die?
And my most profound question of all.
Would the PdP be ready for such? And who would they run?
Should they risk running Caswell? If so, why so and if not why not?
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De ole man was tempted to submit this as an article to the Honourable Blogmaster but I know HE HAS INSTRUCTIONS NOT TO PUBLISH ANY MORE PIECES BY PIECE THE LEGEND!
I was going to call it
” if Atherley dies tonight, will the PdP die tomorrow?”
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interesting thoughts Piece
once you dont toe the line they will attempt to stump you———even if it a no ball! i.e against the rules of the game
They cant like you— cause you like Trump. You dont say things hypocritically and polite.
You are supposed to bow and scrape and say as you are told please sir no sir 3 bags full sir even when you dont mean um—once you sound rightIf you get a full toss or a long hop you not to hit it to the boundary. you must pat it back gently to master
It aint now that our people not thinking or cant think—— they never learned to think
they have not been thinking all their lives so they cant think nowthey never learned to swim at low tide so they cant swim at high tide
the would be pm compared me to the scribes in Jesus day who impressed Jesus sometimes , lied about him sometimes and tore him up sometimes
by his analogy is he not suggesting that he is Jesus. Is not Jesus God?
Jesus accepted it when the scribes criticized him and mocked him but Diotrophes saying he is God and one can not even suggest that he has no solutions for barbados, when it is as clear as the two bridges in Bridgetownnote that unlike Diotrophes JOHN K IS A BARBADOS SCHOLAR TWICE—– HE AINT JUST START THINKING
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@Hal
To be honest, it’s not really helpful to introduce into a serious discussion about democracy, meaningless platitudes by a racist like Churchill. Common sense tells you that anyone could make the same statement about the political system that they prefer. It sheds exactly zero light on whether the Westminster system aka ‘representative democracy’ is democratic or whether it’s preferable to any other political system. Maybe for the purposes of clarity, it would be useful if you explain how you define democracy.What you have presented is the standard theory that defenders of the Westminster system offer in order to justify it. The reality of how this system actually works in life is completely different. First of all, in this system voters do not have the power. The Westminster system existed for most of its life without universal suffrage and, in fact, this is something that has been forced on it by the struggles of ordinary people all around the world. A Princetown and Northwestern University study of the US political system, which in its essential characteristics is a presidential variant of the Westminster sysytem, found that in this system “economic elites and organised groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence”. So the power never starts with the people and in reality always rests with the financial oligarchs.
Since the power doesn’t start with the people, they are not in a position to delegate it to anyone. As you well know, individuals are elected as representatives and not as delegates. Therefore, once the voters have marked their x, they have no further power over their so-called representative. They cannot instruct that ‘representative’ to vote in any particular way in the parliament, there are no mechanisms for that ‘representative’ to render account to their constituents and only in some limited countries is it even possible for the electors to recall an elected representative. Therefore there is no evidence that the voters have delegated their power to the representative. As regards to election promises and manifestos, I think people generally understand that these are not worth the paper they are written on and the voters have zero power to enforce their implementation. In the Westminster system, it’s clear that outside the election booth every 4 or 5 years, the voters are powerless in this system. Of course they could take to the streets, but they could do that in any political system.
Within the Westminster system, which is based on party government, the main political parties function as elements of the state along with the courts, the army, secret police etc and are the means via which the finacial oligarchy carries out its rule, while spreading the fiction that it is basing itself on the will of the people. Hence Malcolm X denounced it as a hypocrisy. These political parties are hierarchical organisations, with varying degrees of internal democracy. Their more active members emerge as career politicians whose career advancement is dependent on staying on the right side of the party leadership. These party leaderships are themselves in the pockets of the various corporations who exert their influence via so-called lobbying and other corrupt practices in order to ensure that governments pursue policies which meet their private interests, regardless of their election promises and even the views of their party members.
I don’t particularly want to go into the situation in the UK but the division in that society reflects the deep divisions in Britain’s ruling class as to how best to secure its interests. I’m sure you have noted that a similar process of division is unfolding in the USA. In my opinion these are reflective of the crisis that the Anglo-American ruling class finds itself in as it struggles to suppress those states rivalling it for control of the globalised capitalist economy. It has zero to do with democracy.
With regard to Barbados, I’m not sure why you think that the Westminster system doesn’t exist here. After all the English slavemasters set it up here in 1639, based on the system in England.
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@ Dr. GP my fellow myope
And right there, you said it!
“…they have not been thinking all their lives so they cant think now
they never learned to swim at low tide so they cant swim at high tide…”
By that last comment you showed how bajan you are!
Learning to swim at low tide…
Going to the sea in one’s youth with old people was a trip ” de sea ent got no back door” or “if you move from heah and go out deah and drown, whe yo come back yeah, I gine kill you”
People will come here on this article and do their usual brimming exercises!
But they will never go beyond the parameters set by the Honourable Blogmaster
And it is not only because they are afraid of him and his power over their IP but because they fear that their discourse WILL NOT BE MEANINGFUL!
We have been trained to be a nation of servants who dutifully fan massas a.ss.
“As I was going to St Ives, I met a man with seven wives…”
I was exposed to that riddle at 7 years old and immediately gave the right answer because I “saw” the riddle in mens oculus.
THE PRACTICE OF THINKING IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE accentuated by the right environment or, as in our case, dumbed down over many iterations as with the Barbados experience!
Periodically you can see the effect of this idiocy with the comments like “you feel you real bright doah”
You get despised for just being you!
Grenville is one such example of palpable idiocy that, because he is part of the obsequious genuflecting system in Barbados, is given a free pass.
So if you were for example to ask him “Bedroom Policeman, you plan to go in bajan bedrooms and censor what they are watching TELL US WHAT WHOLESOME PROGRAMS YOU WILL REPLACE THESE XXX MOVIES WITH?”
De Snuffleupagus would be lost BECAUSE HE HAS NOT THOUGHT THAT THROUGH!
And that my myopic friend speaks to the endemic malady that beseiges Barbados
They always got something to say bout anything being bad BUT ASK DEM WHAT TO REPLACE UM WITH?
You do this all the time SO DEM GINE HATE YOU GUTS! and it does get dem even more vex when you tell dem you wife love you and does cook for you!
My man, doan come home for de Gathering heah cause if dem hear you in de island, you boat dun sink!
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Piece the Legend
December 17, 2019 4:08 PM@ John Q
I wish to ask you this question since, OF ALL THE CONSTITUTIONAL POLEMICISTS REMAINING HERE ON BU, you alone fall into the category that thinks this government is unconstitutional!!What if, Lord Forbid, the Almighty God called home Joseph Atherley tonight!
Would the constitutional crisis loom again?
And would such invalidate the Government of Barbados being a valid government WITH NO OPPOSITION?
And would the Senatorships of Caswell Franklyn and Crystal Drakes cease?
Would there be a by election called in St Michael West?
Would the BLP run Lauron Gibbs and again risk another 30 to 0 result?
Would the DLP field a candidate? An old one, or a new one? Who?
Of course I expect nuff people to come here and say dat de ole man want Joe dead but is not death inevitable? Or is Joe, being a man of the cloth, not going to die?
And my most profound question of all.
Would the PdP be ready for such? And who would they run?
Should they risk running Caswell? If so, why so and if not why not?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The PDP is a joke!!
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What if, Lord Forbid, the Almighty God called home Joseph Atherley tonight!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
What if Ms. Mockley gets the call?
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@ Tee White
I am not sure what Churchill’s alleged racism has to do with the statement about democracy, but let us move on. Yu ask me to define democracy, but that is not my call. I am responding to your call for a new system of government.
I am not sure what you mean by ‘defenders’ of the Westminster system offer to justify that system, since I do not, and have never, sought to defend the Westminster system. I have simply sought, in as simple a way as possible, to describe the system you and I live under.
You claim it has existed for most of its being without adult suffrage, but so has every system of government we know. Politics is dynamic, it changes all the time. So, if a system improves itself it cannot be accused of being undemocratic. Until 1951 ordinary Barbadians did not have the vote; and until 1963 those aged 18-21 did not have the vote.
In fact, I believe the age of majority in both the UK and Barbados should be 16. But then that means that those aged under 16 will not have the vote. Will that be undemocratic?
You describe the US presidential system as a variant of the Westminster system. It is not. It is a totally different system, nearer to an elective monarchy than to the Westminster system.
Ignore the nonsense about academic studies, the fact is all over the world small elites have control of the levers of power and its is getting worse, not better. Just look at little Barbados.
You say power does not start with the people, but it does, does it not? Then what is the purpose of a general election? A nd you claim voters do not have any control over their representatives after placing the X. But they do, at present at a maximum of every five years. What I believe you mean is that five years is too long. Am I right? You say voters cannot instruct their ‘representatives’ on how to vote ow what policies to support. But are you not mis-interpreting what the word representative means?
You say political parties, or at least the main ones, function as part of the state. That is a very loose definition of the state. You also say that there is no ‘evidence’ that voters have delegated power to elected representatives. What evidence do you need?
The execution of a vote is de facto and de jure a transfer of that power to the elected person; who enters parliament and transfers some of that power to the majority group or party; who then appoint/elect a leader; who then appoints a Cabinet. At every stage some of that power is transferred, but ultimately final power rests in parliament, not the government or prime minister.
Who are the UK ruling class? Is this class independent of government and the monarchy? We have just had 40 years of membership of the EU, is the British ruling class part of the EU ruling class? If so, have the voters now rejected both ruling classes, or is the Boris government just anther part of the British ruling class?
You say the Westminster system exits in Barbados. Plse list the requirements of the Westminster system and point out how these exist in Barbados.
I am still looking for your proposal of a system of government that is better and more representative than the current democratic system.
I think you know what you are against, but have not yet worked out what you are for.
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Here is text modified from a Leave Seat MP in the UK’s recent election.
I have modified it to explore a point of similarities.
“…Every Labour (PARTY) leader gets vilified by the press (see Reverend Atherleyof the PdP’s record to date but the vitriol levelled against Jeremy Corbyn (THE PDP LEADER) was (HAS BEEN) of a greater intensity…
Whoever comes next (TO LEAD THE PDP) must not give our (ITS MANY) enemies any opportunity to portray them in a hostile light, be it allegations of failing to tackle antisemitism (be it allegations of being a BLP plant or AN INABILITY TO HANDLE AN ECONOMY IN SHAMBLES) or familiar claims around national security (VIOLENCE AND MURDERS UNLEASHED or the xenophobic policy of the Mugabe government to triple the population).
The problem is that the PdP has yet to see that it has faced its first election from the time the Reverend Atherley was allowed to cross the floor AS A JUDAS!
And, having done what he did IT HAS REFUSED TO ADDRESS THE PERCEPTION IN THE MINDS OF THE VOTING ELECTORATE THAT the PdP leader is NOT A MAN TO BE TRUSTED!!
And that single campaign message, by Mugabe Mottley, IN BARBADOS, with its majority, simple minded electorate, IS GOING TO BE ENOUGH to scuttle The PdP that is seen as THE MIA MOTTLEY OPPOSITION OF CONVENIENCE!
Yet the PdP is locked in a stasis incapable of understanding the extent of the problem AND PRESENTING A PREMIERE COUNTER FOR THIS ISSUE!
But John Q does call them a joke heheheheh
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@ the Honourable Blogmaster your assistance please with an item here thank you
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john
re What if Ms. Mockley gets the call?
I WOULD PRAISE GOD ALL DAY FOR A FORTNIGHT LIKE IF I AT THE GATHERING IN REVELATION 5
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Man GP you is a Christian and a doctor. Barbados and Bajans took good care of you for decades until David Thompson it was and others? effed you up, but still in spite of that you should be praying for all politicians. In the Anglican church we pray for all politicians every Sunday, and sometimee we remember to pray for them at home too, although i won’t lie to you, most of the time I don’t remember the politicos in my home prayers. Most of the time I don’t study them at all one way nor the other, but when I remember I ask God to grant them all good gifts, long life, good health etc. But “no” I have NEVER asked God to grant anybody an election win.
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PIECE
OUR PROBLEM IS THAT OUR LEADERS AND WOULD BE LEADERS DONT AND CANT THINKI PUT A QUESTION TO THE LEADER OF NO SOLUTIONS FOR BARBADOS WHICH HE CANNOT ANSWER
I PUT THE SAME QUESTION TO MY DEAR DARLING WIFE WHEN SHE CAME FROM WORK LAST NIGHT, AND SHE WAS ABLE TO ANSWER ITHERE IT IS
IF YOU WERE THE DICTATOR/LEADER IN BARBADOS WITH ALL 30 SEATS BUT YOU HAD NO MONEY TO BUY GARBAGE TRUCKS OR PAY GARBAGE COLLECTORS HOW WOULD YOU GET THE GARBAGE COLLECTED AND PREVENT THE SPREAD OF LEPTOSPIROSISYOU KNOW WHAT IS DE BIGGEST PROBLEM HERE TO THOSE WHO READ THAT QUESTION?
THEY CANT PERCEIVE THAT GARBAGE CAN BE COLLECTED WITHOUT MONEY TO BUY GARBAGE TRUCKS OR PAY GARBAGE COLLECTORS -
@Piece the Legend December 18, 2019 12:35 AM “But they will never go beyond the param SO DEM GINE HATE YOU GUTS! and it does get dem even more vex when you tell dem you wife love you and does cook for you!”
I don’t know about the others because I don’t hate GP [neither of them] at all, and those of us who appreciate good food are glad to know that he has a loving wife who cooks for him.
He has “cussed” me form time to time, but I remember when I first came on BU and someone with the handle ROK was advocating for the Barbados government to run a study on the effectiveness.necessity of childhood vaccines, whereby a number of children would not be vaccinated to compare the rate of their subsequent illness with the subsequent illnesses of vaccinated children. I disagreed with ROK, and Dr. GP supported me. For that support he will forever remain in my good books. I don’t only remember only bad stuff, I also remember the good and the sensible. Dr. GP’s support for childhood immunizations is the good and correct position to take.
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@Hal
I’d like to avoid us spinning in the mud by simply restating our different perspectives on this issue. So I’ll try to focus my responses on the areas where I think discussion will bring us greater clarity about the sources of our different perspectives.You may remember that my first contribution to this discussion was to argue that the Westminster system is not democratic if judged by the widely used definition of government of the people, by the people and for the people. Clearly, you have a different view on whether the Westminster system is a democratic system of government. Logically, it follows that you either think that the Westminster system reflects government of the people, by the people and for the people or you are using a different definition of democracy to the one I’ve adopted. Your statement that all over the world small elites have control of the levers of power suggests that you don’t think the former. Hence my request for you to explain what definition of democracy you are using. If your definition is something along the lines that the Westminster system and its characteristics is what democracy is, then obviously your position would be clearer to me. For me, the problem with such a definition is that there are no external criteria by which we can judge the democratic nature of the system. It also opens the door for supporters of any other political system to simply state that the characteristics of the system they favour is what democracy is. You are no doubt aware that the Chinese Communist Party considers the political system in that country to be democratic although it differs significantly from the Westminster system. I suspect that you wouldn’t consider the system in China to be democratic but as there are no external criteria, their claim is as valid as yours.
With regard to your claim that the Westminster system does not exist in Barbados, I’m not sure why you make that claim. In Barbados, we have two main political parties. These campaign at election time and on the basis of the votes cast in the election, a parliament is elected which sits until the next election. Those elected are considered to be the ‘representatives of the people’ and from among them, the party with the majority forms a cabinet which governs the country. Please explain to me how this differs from the Westminster system.
I have deliberately used the term Westminster system loosely to mean what is generally referred to as ‘representative democracy’. I have done this for two reasons. First to emphasise the fact that this system has its origins in the English civil war and the efforts of the rising English merchant class to wrest political power from the monarchy. Secondly, to contest the idea that it is, in fact, a democratic system. I’m fully aware that this system exists in presidential and parliamentary variants but these are simply variants of the same political system rather than different systems.
The ruling class in the UK are those who own and control the economy. Both the government and the monarchy are part of the institutions through which they carry out their rule. As a class with extensive international investments, loans, financial relationships etc, it is integrated with capitalists from other countries within the globalised capitalist economy. It has strong economic relationships with the EU but also with the USA as well as farther afield. The different economic interests of the factions within this class drive them in different policy directions with regard to Britain’s relationships with both the EU and the USA. This is not a problem that was created by David Cameron. In fact, as far back as 1990, Geoffrey Howe triggered Margaret Thatcher’s downnfall precisely over Britain’s relationship with the EU. The referendum and recent election represent a victory for that faction of Britain’s ruling class which favours prioritising the country’s relationship with the USA over that with the EU.
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SS
RE Man GP you is a Christian and a doctor. TRUEBarbados and Bajans took good care of you for decades NOT TRUE MY PARENTS AND GOD DID
I GOT NO PREFERENTIAL CARE FROM Barbados and BajansTHE JOB I WANTED WENT TO FOREIGNERS……………WHO HATED DOING IT AND DIDNT DO IT WELL
ONCE I GOT A TWO WEEK ACTING PICK FOR CHILD CARE BOARD
I TURNED UP AT A CHILDREN’S HOME TO WHICH I WAS ASSIGNEDLADY IN CHARGE TOLD ME DR BBS DONT COME
IF HE DOES COME HE DONT GOT A “STETOSCOPE” OR A PRESCRIPTION PAD
WE DOES JUST SEND THE CHILDREN TO THE POLYCLINICI CAN SAY SO MUCH MORE BOUT HOW I WAS MISTREATED
BUT GOD HELPED ME AND MY PARENTS WERE ALWAYS THERE FOR MEI OWE Barbados and Bajans NOTHING——-I PAID MY DUES
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@GP December 18, 2019 8:32 AM “YOU HAD NO MONEY TO BUY GARBAGE TRUCKS OR PAY GARBAGE COLLECTORS HOW WOULD YOU GET THE GARBAGE COLLECTED AND PREVENT THE SPREAD OF LEPTOSPIROSIS. YOU KNOW WHAT IS DE BIGGEST PROBLEM HERE TO THOSE WHO READ THAT QUESTION?
THEY CANT PERCEIVE THAT GARBAGE CAN BE COLLECTED WITHOUT MONEY TO BUY GARBAGE TRUCKS OR PAY GARBAGE COLLECTORS.”Well I int bright like your wife, and i int no HC nor Cawmere person nor neffen so but we can be much more rigid about sorting at source, it takes only a few minutes per day, for example when I buy bleach from the supermarket I never asked them to sell me a bleach bottle. I only wanted the bleach, so on my next trip to the supermarket, and I have to go there anyhow to buy cleaning supplies etc. although not much food because i grow a lot of my own, I carry back their bleach bottle to them, and not only the bleach bottle but every other container that I never asked to buy. And of course we can compost and feed our gardens with the compost and subsequently feed ourselves with the vegetables and ground provisions.
As for the rats, we MUST make it mandatory that all garbage is stored until collection in a bin with a tightly locked on lid, easy for the collectors to remove, but impossible for a rat, cat or dog to remove. We set up rat restaurants in front of our homes and businesses and then act surprised that every night the rats come out to dine.
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@GP December 18, 2019 8:46 AM “I PAID MY DUES”
And we–at least some of us–thank you for your service and we are sorry that some of us treated you badly.
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John
December 18, 2019 3:15 AMWhat if, Lord Forbid, the Almighty God called home Joseph Atherley tonight!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
What if Ms. Mockley gets the call?++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Does Ms. Mockley have a Deputy …. in the governmental sense?
These polysemous words!!
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JOHN
What if Ms. Mockley gets the call?++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Does Ms. Mockley have a Deputy …. in the governmental sense?
WHY YOU DONT STOP ASKING THESE HARD SIMPLE QUESTIONS THOUGH?
YOU WANT PEOPLE TO BLOW A GASKET IN THEIR CIRCLE OF WILLIS OR IN THEIR BLOOD BRAIN BARRIERSJOHN BY NOW YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT WE LIVE IN A WORLD OF DUMMIES
SS & DONNA
I LOVE WUNNAH BOTH MUCHLY
DONT CARE HOW MUCH WUNNAH CUSS ME OR VICE VERSA -
We all have a deputy John. You know that. Just in case the “main man” fails
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@Dr GP a small apology I in order to you.
I was reading the opening news of the day and saw a note that Politifact had labelled Pres Obama’s can keep ur doctor statement as THE lie of that year…
I didn’t realize it was given that heady a decoration… so you may have been on to something with your continuous harangue on that point.
Soooo tell me oh wise one are you going to continually remind the blog and the world now and forever that YOUR favorite pres has also been accorded esteemed ‘Lie of Year’ status.
Politifact nailed Trump on this one below but frankly it could have have been any number of blatant lies he blasted and continually repeated to millions.
BtW he now has TWO False Fables D’or in last three years and he /his campaign would make in three in four…. that nimbleness of tongue is akin to Messi or Ronaldo in soccer skills… You think he will get 6 awards before he leaves … presuming of course nothing like your crass glee re Ms Mottley’s fate befalls him!
The choosen lie of the year: Since the Sept. 26 release of the whistleblower complaint about his call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky, Trump has insisted more than 80 times that the whistleblower’s account is fake, fraudulent, incorrect, ‘total fiction,’ ‘made up,’ and ‘sooo wrong, [but] despite what Trump claims, the whistleblower got the call ‘almost completely’ right.”
I gone.
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@ GP December 18, 2019 8:46 AM
“I OWE Barbados and Bajans NOTHING——-I PAID MY DUES”
Cannot say that I blame you. When I was finishing off my doctorate, there were two Britishers also doing graduate work – Bob Body was finishing off his doctorate and Seumas was starting his master’s. Body was going down to Brazil to seek out a post; both he and Seumas told me that I was too good a scientist and should not waste my time in back water countries like Barbados and that I should go to Brazil. The back water statement ,though true ,I found some what disturbing. It affected my outlook because I objected to Barbados being called back water. Even if I wanted to go, there was the problem of my two young sons and a wife: when I suggested that I would go up to the States and scout the out the position ,that was one big noise. Looking back, I would say that didn’t listen to my dad when I told him I was getting married. He sent to buy a nip bottle of whisky from the rum shop at the corner of Mason Hall Street and Emmerton( Chapman Lane) Lane. When I got back, he told me to drink two shots of the whisky and forget the idea of getting married to the wife. I guess she had more sway than dad. Dad was proven to be correct in his assessment. You can call this the reflections of a misspent youth.
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dr lucas
my mother also told me not to marry to my first wife
like you, if we had killed a man and plead guilty to manslaughter we would be better off — CAUSE we would have got out by now.
YOU NEVER FULLY GET OUT OF A BAD MARRIAGE WHEN YOU PUT IN SO MUCH. IT AFFECTS THE CHILDREN WHO END UP POORER FOR IT
BUT GOD CAN HELP A MAN TO FORGET
THOUGH IT IS TRUE GOD HAS BROUGHT ME THROUGH, I WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF FINANCIALLY TODAY. LIKE YOU MY YOUTH WAS MISSPENT. LOT OF HARD WORK BUILDING MY REAL ESTATE EMPIRE GONE FOR NOTHING.
JUST THANK GOD THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO WALK AWAY WITH YOUR SANITY
WHEN I USED TO GO TO GLENDAIRY TO SEE THE PRISONERS I MET MANY MEN IN CAGES WHO WERE UNABLE TO WALK AWAY… AND THEY MURDEREDAS A PHYSICIAN, I MET MEN IN THEIR THIRTIES ALL WORN DOWN AND BROKEN WITH HYPERTENSION
JUST THANK GOD THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO WALK AWAY WITH YOUR SANITY AND YOUR HEALTHDONT GET ME WRONG I BELIEVE IN MARRIAGE
SOME OF US GET GOOD WIVES AND ABUSE THEM……….I WITNESSED IT FIRST HAND AS I GREW UPSOME OF US GOT SOCIAL CLIMBERS AND CONTROLLING UNLOVING WOMEN WITH MYOPIA AND THE INABILITY TO SEE WHAT GOD HAS GIVEN TO THEM BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE
THE MEN WHO ARE DONT CARISH AND HAVE LITTLE WORTH SEEM TO GET BY WELL IN BIM
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@ GP
Your penultimate paragraph says it all,
The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.