The Phartford Files: Agenda for a Third Party Part 2

Submitted by Ironside

In part I of this discourse, I indicated that there is room for a third party in the psyche of the current Barbadian society. I also set forth the contours of a basic strategic communications approach that a “third party” can adopt.

May I digress here and rebut the commentators who say that we should not talk about a third party? That position is based on the notion that the DLP is dead, principally because of its 30-0 defeat at the polls.

Realistically, that idea, predicated as it is on the current state of the DLP, is at best sensationalist; at worst, dangerous to aspiring third parties. It is also foolhardy because in the FPPS (first-past-the-post system) system, technically all it takes to win is one more vote than the opponent. The implication is that analysis of the 2018 polling results will show that DLP still has strong residual support and therefore, will not die from its wounds.

Whether we want the party dead or not is irrelevant. That is just not how things of this nature work in Barbados. There is reason why we are often described as a nation of diehards! Moreover, we prune plants and they produce more, cut down trees and they grow back. So those who wish the DLP dead are engaging in wishful thinking. If you feel like calling me a DLP supporter for saying that, go right ahead…knock yourself out! Cold!

Not Without a Vision
So, a serious third party cannot take that foolhardy position. The strategic goal of a third party or coalition of such parties, as I envisage it, is to be in one of the following positions at the end of the 2023 election, in order of descending preference:

1. Have a majority of seats and therefore, form the government.
2. Have sufficient seats to make it infeasible for any other party to have a majority without the third party’s seats.
3. Have sufficient seats to form mathematically, at least, the official opposition

I leave my fellow hyper-nerdic bloggers to do the maths in their comments, as I am sure they will.

Whatever the statistical analysis, when (not “if”) either of these situations occurs, it will be an exciting time in Barbados; history will be made. It will bring out the best and the worst in Barbadians. There will be jumping and shouting, wining and dining, bitching and cursing, fuming and fretting, wailing and gnashing of teeth!

In many ways, it will be a Phartful Emancipation Day!

Then, as we always do, even if painfully slowly, we will settle down to a new reality and get on with the business of managing the country for the good of all Barbadians. That is the bottom line, pun intended.

So the 64 million dollar question is: how do we get from here to there?

Strategic Focus
The first and most critical thing is to challenge the incumbent party with proposals at which it will balk to implement but which will find great favour with the masses of Barbadians. There are two such proposals. I will disclose only one at this time. I am not trying to hide anything; I simply want to leave something in reserve for the third party when elections draw near.

My proposal is this: challenge the government to pass legislation NOW to initiate a proportional representation electoral system. I know, you heard me talk about PR before. True. But notice the approach…issuing it as a challenge to the incumbents.

Of course, the third party must make it a major plank of its campaign and convince the public, that if elected, it WILL pass such legislation. If they win and pass the legislation, they virtually guarantee themselves seats in the 2028 election, because of the proportional representation system in effect, ceteris paribus, of course. It would then be virtually impossible for there to be a repeat of the May 2018, 30-0 “bloodbath”.

Now, I can envisage how the BLP and a revived DLP will react to this proposal but in order to keep this article short I am going to leave room for my fellow commentators to help elicit some of these possible reactions.

‘Pieceful’ Concurrence
In the meantime, I wish to recognize some similar and collateral tactics put forward by fellow commentator “Piece the Legend”. His ideas are founded on the same strategic plank: challenge and pester the incumbents with proposals that are high value to the masses but which the incumbents will be hard pressed to implement. In strategic marketing, we call it a “harassment strategy”. Below is a relevant excerpt from Piece but you can read the original at the hyperlink that follows:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What the PdP has to do is reach out to these entities with invitations and then ask the government for assistance for example with leasing the Lloyd Erskine Sandiford venue for the function. The BLP will refuse it, IN WRITING, and the PdP will just announce this.

It’s important for the PdP to deliver things WHILE THEY ARE IN THE OPPOSITION, and for those things the need financial assistance with reach out to the BLP and if you get the resources ITS YOYR DELIVERABLES but if you dont, broadcast that too. It costs the PdP nothing to orchestrate these outreaches WHICH, IF THE BLP REFUSE TO PAY FOR, OVERTIME, SHOWN THEM TO BE PETTY AND FEARFUL.

https://barbadosunderground.net/2019/11/05/the-phartford-files-agenda-for-a-third-party-part-i/comment-page-2/#comment-1262164
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Looking Forward
A break up of the two-party system looks more and more feasible but we have to stay on point. Whether it is one third party or a coalition of third parties fighting the 2023 election is irrelevant. The important thing is to break the two-party system domination. Therefore, there are three things we have to do from here on: 1. Focus! 2. Focus! 3.Focus!

126 comments

  • Vincent Codrington

    Do we need a third party to oppose the incumbent party that forms the GoB? What is its function?

    How will that differ from the present two party system,pejoratively called on this Blog the duopoly?
    Should alternative parties not have contrasting philosophies such as Liberal, Capitalist, Socialist?.
    From the rants that we get on this Blog everyday what jumps out at you?

    The criticisms seem to be against the personal characters of party members not an ideology.
    Surely we cannot take seriously a party that is based on vague ideas? Political parties have to stand for something.
    We have defaulted back to the old syndrome DLP founded out of dissenting BLP:NDP formed out of dissenting DLP: UPP out of dissenting BLP. and round and around the Mulberry Bush we do go.

    I have already suggested to these so called dissidents that it makes more sense joining the Duopoly and reform the parties from within . It seems to be a matter of personal ambition rather than any burning desire to serve the citizens of this country or differences in ideologies.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Good comment Vincent. Ir there is no defining philosophy we are back to a default position. Along with awakening the awareness of the population there is the hop that people/leaders will emerge with a game plan that takes an alternative rout and at thw same time resonate with the people.

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ David BU

    What is the vision? Agitation? How does that differ from the other current social disruptions? Some youth angry and cannot get in touch with themselves. They cannot communicate their feelings except through violence. And we think the solution is to have more parties( including the ones at which we wind our waists) or make more readily available opioids to the youth.

    We making mock sport.

    Like

  • @ Vincent.

    I agree with you 103% (the 3 %is to cover inflation).

    We don’t even have an active 2nd party and we taking about a 3rd one. I would support a strong coalition second party before other voices are encouraged to form and cry in the wilderness.

    We have to understand if we fail to do this, we will end up with a one party state. After all isn’t that what we have already in real terms?

    Like

  • Agree with the slant of your comments John A and Vincent. However you should note the agitation for a third party movement maybe the disruption that acts as a precursor of that disruption.

    Like

  • what is the association of “Some youth angry and cannot get in touch with themselves. They cannot communicate their feelings except through violence” and
    we think the solution is to have more parties( including the ones at which we wind our waists) or make more readily available opioids to the youth?
    CLEAR LIKE A WORD SALAD AND NON SEQUITUR TO ME .

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ John A at 12 :32 PM

    One of the limitations of micro states, like Barbados, is the scarcity of talents….. including political talent. There are not enough leadership skills in a population of 300k to produce leaders of the quality of the Adams, Barrow and Arthur in each generation.

    Like

  • @David.

    From how I see it the 3rd parties do nothing but strengthen the ruling parties chance at elections. They spread the opposition vote over a larger number of hopefuls, hence reducing the chance of an opposition being formed.

    They need to focus on winning a few seats as a united front first. Instead what do we have but a bunch of individual egos seeing who could shout the hardest from their own soap boxes, instead of coming together and doing what is best for the country.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @John A

    Not to preempt Vincent but this is a process, it will evolve to what is required. Never underestimate the will of any people to try for better.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ Vincent.

    Yes that is very noticeable especially when you listen to the poor level of debate and the subsequent lack of public enlightenment that follows.

    Are we not though as a public just as guilty for accepting it?

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ David.

    Time is something we do not have. The threat of a one party state is here today not 5 years off.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ GP

    I am just trying to make sure you do not get fat or constipated. Please eat up the word salad. It is good for you. Trust me.

    Like

  • Agreed with Vincent

    Like

  • THERE IS NO ASSOCIATION OF ANGRY YOUTHS AND HAVING MORE POLITICAL PARTIES
    THE TWO DO NOT COMPUTE

    YOUR ARGUMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OBESITY OR GITRACT IRREGULARITIES EITHER

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ John A at 12:55 PM

    I agree with you on the effect of multiple parties in a small polity. Sometimes I am tempted to conclude that this is done to frustrate the democratic process i.e to cut votes. The meager support they get from the electorate would suggest that the electorate have not taken them seriously.

    @ David BU at 12:57 PM

    I agree with you that it is part of the evolution of the political process. Except it is behaving like a cycle. I remember when there were several small political parties in the 1930’s,1940s and the 1950s in Barbados. In T&T it was worse in the period before Eric Williams. The Governor of that colony had a hard time forming a government.
    I hope we are not taking a step backwards and what recently took place is just a blip on the screen of the political monitor.

    Like

  • Is there any danger of the country finding itself in a similar position to that of Israel? Or Britain? Or Canada? Either with a very weak government or a constant return to the polls in order to arrive at a clear cut decision by the electorate?

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ GP

    You are putting them in the wrong appliance. Try an appliance other than your computer.

    If I recall correctly you introduced the salad imagery.

    Like

  • @Vincent

    Your legitimate concern is noted the process must be influenced. HOWEVER, although it will evolve as part of a natural progression, it cannot be left to happenstance.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ Vincent.

    The question that will arise if no opposition arises is this.

    Will government’s claim of having a mandate based on a 30 to 0 victory hold true only because there is no active opposition to question policy?

    When this happens then in true terms of governance we will have a one party state.

    Wait hold on we ain’t there already come to think of it?

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ Fear Play at 1:39 PM

    The proportional system of representation tends to result in instability of administrations that you referenced above.
    First past the poll system, such as ours, leads to a very high probability of being able to form a stable government. Occasionally It can lead to an elected dictatorship. But that depends on the vigour of other checks and balances in the system.

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ John A at 1 :48 PM

    A one party HoA is not a “one party state”. The Constitution preempted such an occasion beautifully. And Rev Atherly answered the call/ facilitated the process.

    The nominated Senate / Upper House also provides an apparatus for dissenting voices to be heard.

    Then there is the GG with some very subtle reservational tools of advice that gives the GoB and opportunity to reassess and take a second look.

    And the Fourth Estate, in which I am reliably informed, BU plays an important part.

    Again it depends on the seriousness with which these bodies carry out their responsibilities.

    Like

  • @ Vincent.

    I make my statement based exactly on how the same entities you listed have performed recently. Hence my one party state conclusion was drawn.

    Like

  • SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife

    @Ironside “it will be an exciting time in Barbados; history will be made.”

    I HATE exciting, history making times.

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ David BU

    The evolutionary process includes all its elements in physical science and in political and economic science.’ They are agents and reagents.

    Like

  • @Vincent

    You should be careful not to be lured to the academic perspective.The system of government we practice was meant to be practiced in a framework which accommodates a robust dissenting voice delivered in a structured way. What you offer is a tenuous alternative to be generous.

    Like

  • SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife

    @Ironside “The first and most critical thing is to challenge the incumbent party with proposals at which it will balk to implement but which will find great favour with the masses of Barbadians….My proposal is this: challenge the government to pass legislation NOW to initiate a proportional representation electoral system.”

    Where did you ever get the idea that proportional representation “will find great favour with the masses of Barbadians.” Whether it is the rejuvenated DLP or a third party, suggesting proportional representation when it has never been proposed before, seems to make the proposers seem self serving in the extreme.

    People hate self serving people.

    People will see right through you.

    Simple Simon
    Neither B nor D
    But looking forward tov oting for the DLP again, but NOT because they propose Proportional Representation

    Liked by 1 person

  • SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife

    @Ironside “ceteris paribus”

    And cut out de Latin ya hear. Nobody under the age of 60 ain’t study no RH Latin at school.

    In 2023 most of the electorate will never have studied Latin, and will not be impressed by those old fogies who seek to impress by spouting Latin.

    Free PR=Public Relations advice: Speaking or writing in Latin will only tell the youthful electorate that you are an old has-been.

    Liked by 1 person

  • SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife

    @Ironside “proposals that are high value to the masses”

    And you know that proportional representation is of high value to the masses. How? How? How?

    Are the masses vying for a seat in Parliament with a tax funded salary and gold plated pension?

    NO.

    Are political wannabees vying for a seat in Parliament with a tax funded salary and a gold plated pension?

    YES.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Simple Simon

    Do not be overbearing. The term is used by economists more than being seen a Latin.

    Like

  • SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife

    @Vincent Codrington “reform the parties from within . It seems to be a matter of personal ambition rather than any burning desire to serve the citizens of this country or differences in ideologies.”

    Thanks Vincent.

    I couldn’t have said it so well.

    Liked by 1 person

  • SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife

    @Vincent CodringtonNovember 9, 2019 12:49 PM. “There are not enough leadership skills in a population of 300k to produce leaders of the quality of the Adams, Barrow and Arthur in each generation.:

    Here I disagree sharply with you.

    A population of just under 300,000 is capable of producing decent leaders. However some of our old fogies stick around for much too long. They know political partisanship and little else. They seem to think that if they dye their hair we will believe that they are young.

    Ask Ironside and his mentors to talk to my Little Susie who is a 25 year old creative, and can sit on any part of the planet solicit, create and deliver paid work. There are thousands like Susie. Ask Ironside to talk to them.

    Don’t talk to me. I may well be dead as a door-nail before May 2023.

    Talk to Little Susie.

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ John A at 2:20 PM

    In Portfolio Management and in Econometrics we have to remind our selves that past performance is not often a good indicator of future performance. The past need not be deterministic. David BU believes in the power of disruptive elements to bring about change. We must each play our part . You are both in my opinion doing o.k.

    Like

  • SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife

    @DavidNovember 9, 2019 2:41 PM “Simple Simon, Do not be overbearing. The term is used by economists more than being seen a Latin.”

    Methinks that the Latin speakers are the overbearing ones.

    We the electorate are not Latin speakers or readers or writers, neither are we economists. We are not interested in esoteric economic terms. Speak to us in plain English or plain Bajan. Cut out the Latin. Trust me NOBODY under the age of 60 is impressed by the Latinate terms. And a good number of the over 60’2 will be gone by May 2023. Talk to the youth.

    They are highly interested in good interesting work in return for good pay.

    Talk about work. Show the young people how you will do better than anybody else to ensure good work for good wages so that the young people can raise their families.

    Like

  • @Simple

    You and the others should consider stepping up. Why should others dumb down a way of communicating?

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  • @ Vincent.

    Thank you. I still feel we as a people must take much of the blame. If we accept mediocrity without demanding better that is exactly what we will get. A recent example of course being the ” debate” over the foreign debt restructuring! Remember where $ 500 million. Was restructured and yielded a $4billion saving and not a man asked ” oh how?”

    Liked by 1 person

  • My problem is when grand pie in the sky statements like the $4B saving goes unchallenged and the unions ask for a 10 percent wage increase what you going tell them? You going say ” fellows I did only talking for the voters wunna tek we serious?”

    This is where BS then snowballs and creates problems for all of us. Maybe a party should form with a motto of ” PURE UNFILTERED TRUTH ONLY”

    Then again they might lie to get my X! Lol

    Liked by 1 person

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ David BU at 2: 27 PM

    Please do not feel compelled to be generous.
    Show the evidence to the contrary and the logical flaws in my arguments. We are all products of academia. Most things are conceived and interpreted in the mind. There is no dichotomy in my profession. Our system of governance is applied political science. Do you think it is coincidence that the many modern and successful leaders studied Social sciences?

    Like

  • SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife

    @John ANovember 9, 2019 3:06 PM “Remember where $ 500 million. Was restructured and yielded a $4billion saving and not a man asked ” oh how?””

    it is clear that nobody told you that Professor La-Ha is on our team.

    Professor La-Ha= a 1960’s era magician who entertained Bajan school children. My favourite was when he made one of the boys “lay an egg” and when he “urned lumps of coal into sweeties”, specifically those delicious golden yellow nut crisps made by CCC.

    Men like Professor La-Ha can save $4 billion out of $500 million, easy so.

    Lol!

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Simple

    You too bad! Lol

    Liked by 1 person

  • re November 9, 2019 1:40 PM

    @ GP

    You are putting them in the wrong appliance. Try an appliance other than your computer.

    If I recall correctly you introduced the salad imagery.
    YOU SHOULD HAVE NOTICED THAT WHEN I DID SO, THAT I INTRODUCED IT CORRECTLY IN CONTEXT

    Like

  • I know we had a MOF that make real money disappear now Simple telling me we got an “advisor” that can make it reappear!

    Lord Vegas here we come with the Bajan Magicians Chris & Lala😂

    Liked by 1 person

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ John A

    You , I and all other electors who voted have one vote each. We exercise our responsibilities. We come on BU and we apply our professional skills to societal issues hoping to shed a little light. There is nothing else we can do but lead by example and show the way the best we can.

    @ Simple Simon

    I am beginning to think we all need time out. I come here to learn. There is no way that learning common Latin phrases will not aid your comprehension. I even use my lingua franca ( Bajan ) when it best expresses my thoughts and feelings. You must be younger than fifty if you have not read”ceteris paribus” in Julius Caesar’s acconts of his military exploits.If you were in the medical field you must have used many Latin words, So take it easy.

    Other things being equal ,I hope we will all make a difference.

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  • Ironside:

    If you propose proportional representation, then you should propose how it may work.

    Currently, we vote for individual representatives, and they secure their seat in Parliament. Are you advocating that the voters can only vote for political parties, rather than individual candidates?

    Are you advocating that the number of votes cast be used to determine the number of seats that are available to each party? Are you proposing that once the number of seats allocated to each party is known, then party then selects the individuals who will represent them in Parliament?

    Like

  • @ Vincent.

    Yes you are correct all we can do is share our views based on our background and hope that based on the exchanges something positive occurs.

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  • @ John A November 9, 2019 3:40 PM
    “I know we had a MOF that make real money disappear now Simple telling me we got an “advisor” that can make it reappear!
    Lord Vegas here we come with the Bajan Magicians Chris & Lala…’’
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Big man John, if you and the little miller can see right through this blind of bullshit why can’t the man in Opposition see out of this ‘red’ veil of B S or has he been knighted with the ‘blind’ national pride of Opagueness?

    How can a ‘princely’ sum of $500 million (or even $5 billion) give rise to a savings of $5 billion over 5 years?

    At least the ‘damned’ idiot in a dog collar could have asked for the spreadsheets which supported the MoF’s verbal sleight of hand for verification of the numbers.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ Mr Vincent Codrington

    I will respond to what you said first as opposed to commenting on what “my fellow employee in the PDP” has said

    Please note that quoted remark came from Bedroom Policeman aka Grenville Phillips whose mouthing are …. non repeatable badwords.

    But you said and I quote

    “…I have already suggested to these so called dissidents that it makes more sense joining the Duopoly and reform the parties from within .

    It seems to be a matter of personal ambition rather than any burning desire to serve the citizens of this country or differences in ideologies….”

    I am inclined to see your rationale about ambition and ideological values being the driving factor for many of these Third Party Movements globally.

    But why I CANNOT AGREE WITH YOUR PROPOSAL ABOUT CHANGING A PARTY FROM WITHIN lies in what I would refer to as THE MARIA AGARD SYNDROME.

    Simply put THE EXISTING DUOPOLY WILL KILL ANY SUCH CHANGE BEFORE IT WILL GROW

    Imagine the uphill trudge that Leron Gibbs will have to replace Mugabe, Teets, Hats, Toppin, Pain, Thorne, Hinkson etc. Al.

    That change WILL NEVER HAPPEN FROM WITHIN not in our lifetimes combined.

    This must be AS CLEAN A BREAK AS POSSIBLE, notwithstanding the purported complicity of Reverend Atherley

    Your model SIMPLY WILL NOT WORK, mr Codrington

    For there to be at least a fighting chance, THE THIRD PARTY MOVEMENT MUST BE A STANDALONE ENTITY.

    Like

  • @ the Honourable Blogmaster your assistance please with an item here for Mr Vincent Codrington thanks

    Like

  • @ Miller

    You remember when people said Tom Adams would go into debate with a blank sheet of paper and pretend to pull numbers off it? Well even if the pastor man had a sheet with numbers on it, I doubt he would of known how to pull them off.

    Tom was a masterful statistician and the other gentleman is a preacher. What more can I say?

    That is why I maintain more parties is not the answer if that is the quality of opposition they will bring. Our energy should be focused on bringing together one strong party, with some in it trained in fiance and it’s application. Going forward we will have some complex financial situations especially as 2029 approaches, we need men that can discuss and educate the public on those issues.

    I mean don’t get me wrong praying on them might help too!

    Like

  • @Simple Simon
    Re: “Ceteris paribus”
    Ceteris paribus, verbal diarrhoea is verbal diarrhoea!

    P.S. Hope you don’t mind the UK spelling!
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Re: Talk to Little Susie.
    Does she do portraits?

    Like

  • @John A

    We should be worried about the quality of the opposition, even more worried about citizen debate in the various fora.

    Like

  • @Vincent

    We have had this debate many times. There is a nuance to how we should govern our little island that makes it a challenge to resort to evidence based scenarios.

    Like

  • @ David.

    Yes as I said earlier to Vincent if we don’t demand better from the politicians, then we must accept what we are given.

    The problem is we get so caught up in the party nonesence, that we forget the bigger picture and as a result those we elect get away with mediocrity.

    As for the comments of some, the bird known as “Yardus Fowlus” is an exceedinlgly resilient animal that does not feed in the real world, hence purging them is an exceedingly difficult task! Lol

    Like

  • @Ironsie, what would have been the make up of parliament if your proposed system of proportional representation was used in the May 2018 Barbados general election?

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Vincent Codrington
    November 9, 2019 12:08 PM
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    QUOTE:
    Do we need a third party to oppose the incumbent party that forms the GoB? What is its function?
    RESPONSE
    No! We need to move from one party state, en apariencia (Spanish) to a one party state de facto (Latin)!

    P.S. Language guide for Simple Simon
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    QUOTE:
    We have defaulted back to the old syndrome DLP founded out of dissenting BLP:NDP formed out of dissenting DLP: UPP out of dissenting BLP. and round and around the Mulberry Bush we do go.

    RESPONSE:
    It is called “dialectical materialism”…classic Marxist theory. We all learnt it in Politics 101!

    Ergo:
    Major Premise: Dissent will lead to new parties
    Minor Premise: New parties will lead to more dissent
    Conclusion: Keep the status quo?!
    +++++++
    Makes a whole lot of damn sense!

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    Round and around the mulberry bush.

    Like

  • @ Vincent

    You missed the sarcasm, boss!

    Like

  • @Ironside.

    Well, well, well! So here we are again! Reading with interest the developing discussion re: the Third Party Movement.

    Keep it hot, hot, man!

    @Bajan New York
    I answered this question more than a year ago:

    https://barbadosunderground.net/2018/06/03/parliamentary-democracy-under-the-microscope-agenda-for-change/

    Like

  • @John A
    Remember where $ 500 million. Was restructured and yielded a $4billion saving and not a man asked ” oh how?

    ++++++++++++
    Come on! Haven’t you heard that UWI embarked on a campus wide effort to save 30 million over the next two years, by the time it reached Barbados that number had grown to 30 billion.

    We have inflation run amok or someone can’t tell the difference between an “M” or a “B”

    https://barbadostoday.bb/2019/10/17/top-ranking/

    Like

  • SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife

    @John ANovember 9, 2019 4:44 PM “Going forward we will have some complex financial situations especially as 2029 approaches, we need MEN that can discuss and educate the public on those issues.”

    If you don’t include WOMEN you will be losing fully 51% of the adult brain power which is available to you.

    Are you sure that you will get the best brains if you deliberately exclude more than half of the best brains?

    My eldest gran will be an adult then. She is bright, bright, bright. If she is excluded I can tell you that any other country will be more that happy to BUY her brainpower.

    Don’t say that I did not alert you.

    Like

  • SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife

    @Vincent CodringtonNovember 9, 2019 3:54 PM “I am beginning to think we all need time out. I come here to learn. There is no way that learning common Latin phrases.”

    I don’t know about common.

    Tell me when was the last year that Latin was commonly taught in any Barbados school?

    Like

  • @SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife
    November 9, 2019 2:44 PM

    @Vincent Codrington “reform the parties from within . It seems to be a matter of personal ambition rather than any burning desire to serve the citizens of this country or differences in ideologies.”

    Thanks Vincent.
    I couldn’t have said it so well.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Pure self-serving, double-blind, status quo retention piffle!

    Like

  • @Doc MartinNovember 9, 2019 5:56 PM
    @Bajan New York
    I answered this question more than a year ago:

    Thanks, appreciated.

    Like

  • @ Sir Simple

    My apologies I should of said people not men.

    Like

  • @ Ironside (my PdP fellow Consultant)

    How are you?

    I noted that you had given the matter of proportional representation the leader position.

    I must respectfully differ with you for a few reasons.

    Firstly, dat is a big word dat bajans BOTH THE SHEEPLE AND THE PEOPLE, cannot understand!

    It is too big for them to wrap their brains around Ironside!

    On the other hand THE POWER OF RECALL will galvanize every single Bajan who is voting, to vote for the PdP

    You must trust de ole man on this one, that is a winner

    Additionally, de ole man is going show you a next winner!

    The PDP must use the immunity provided for under Parliament TO EXPOSE THE THIEVERY OF THE DEMOCRATIC LABOUR PARTY by using the Reports of the Auditor General IN CONJUNCTION WITH FILES THAT FELL OFF THE TRUCK!!!

    Are you feeling me?

    Dem ent tell you yet BUT DE OLE MAN IS AN EXPERT AT DISRUPTION!

    I was did born to tear down all dese principalities and powers so to speak.

    And these is some subject matter I would suggest that YOU AND I debate here for a while!

    In fact, let me suggest that we use this blog to discourse these finer points SO THAT THE PEOPLE IN THE PDP who are committed to winning this election in 2021 and any factions who are not completely on board, THAT WE CONCRETIZE IN THEIR MIND, what they MUST DO!!!

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  • @Sargeant

    Wait UWI was using the same brand of calculator then as the Bs use calculation the debt savings?

    I got to check in town for one of them and see if it would help with my retirement plans!

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Nextparty246 November 9, 2019 3:58 PM

    There is no point in re-inventing the wheel so I suggest for starters the following fairly balanced explanation:

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/proportional-representation

    As this article suggests, there are different models. We can tweak whatever models are out there for this country, once we get past the fear, inertia and MRM (mental rigor mortis) that is barbadiana. We can avoid the unique problem Israel has (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Israel) by dealing with the threshold.

    Those who are creating fear and inertia about PR using Israeli as an example are engaging (as usual) in unscientific “reasoning” (more on this later). We are a very risk-averse society. Juts look at how we “do” entrepreneurship. As you can see from the article above, Israel has nearly a hundred political parties! Theoretically possible, but highly unlikely to happen here!

    Finally, according to Doc Martin, SB would have got one seat in the May 2018 election. See his response to ++Bajan in New York++ below. Then we would not be in the predicament we are now as he/she argued.

    https://barbadosunderground.net/2019/11/09/the-phartford-files-agenda-for-a-third-party-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1262747

    Like

  • @ the Honourable Blogmaster your assistance please with another item here thank you

    Like

  • @ Ironside

    I hope you are paying close attention to this Coalition Chatter

    More specifically take a gander at this quote from John A as he seeks to insert himself AGAIN!

    “…That is why I maintain more parties is not the answer if that is the quality of opposition they will bring.

    Our energy should be focused on bringing together one strong party, with some in it trained in fiance and it’s application.

    Going forward we will have some complex financial situations especially as 2029 approaches, we need men that can discuss and educate the public on those issues…”

    HE SAID “TRAINED IN FIANCE…” but we understand that in enthusiasm to promote a job for himself, HE MEANT TO SAY “FINANCE”

    But why target that specific discipline Ironside?

    He could equally have said DIVERSIFICATION STRATEGIES AND IMPLEMENTATION or Innovation!

    Why be so anally retententive and focus on this single piston finance engine?

    Is that discipline creating FedEx like anatomical party moving heheheh or is it just a discipline to manage finances WHEN THEY ARE CREATED?

    Like

  • Another one lingers Honourable Blogmaster and requires your attention

    Like

  • @ Piece

    Following (and working my but off at the same time).

    Nothing is too difficult to get people buy into/ understand. Remember what I said about consistent, focused campaign? My field is Marketing (the whole gamut); one set of PRINCIPLES that apply to goods, services, social communications etc

    Good marketing can get you past any obstacle…it takes analysis, strategy, time and patience. Remember Cambridge Analytica? Whatever else people say about them, they were brilliant marketers! Got Kamla Persad-Bissessar elected 7th PM in T&T.

    We have to get PR because it will prevent a repeat of 30-0. Have some faith, the tide is slowly turning. There is need for some public education on the matter …it must get beyond this blog.

    But I am glad you mentioned the power of recall…it is easily incorporated into PR at the party level. In most models party controls which member sits in HOA. We can build this into our PR legislation.

    Keep the faith and don’t get side-tracked by the DLP issue. I am committed. Stay focused!

    Like

  • “Damen Shipyards, the company hired by the Kamla Persad-­Bissessar administration to supply Coast Guard vessels to Trinidad and Tobago costing TT$1.358 billion, is at the centre of an ­ongoing bribery investigation in the Nether­lands in connection with the ­contract. The investigation has so far implicated public officials from T&T, Barbados and the Bahamas as ­receiving kickbacks to ensure the contract was granted.”

    Like

  • First party, second party or third party, if you are not singing from the same hymnal, then your ass is grass.
    Looks like the same shit with a different label.

    Like

  • I said early in this government’s tenure thatvI believe legacy forms a big part of its driving force. I maintain this observation. The government is leaving little to platforms for the other parties to mount. The T in BERT is a threat yo all comers. Watch muh. 🤫😏

    Like

  • @ Ironside

    I am committed until its completion OR MY OWN DEMISE which they are planning still.

    The thing about this Proportional Representation being the major set AND POWER OF RECALL being a subset IS THE BAJAN MENTALITY!

    We have 2 years to a General Election!

    I respectfully submit AGAIN that, in a climate that is anti Mugabe AND ONE THAT HATES THE DLP and the suffering that they have caused, it would be easier to emote the votes on Bajans by giving them the power to recall errant politicians that trying to acclimatise them to Proportional Representation

    We cant even get people to stop throwing garbage out of vehicles furthermore to get them UNDERSTAND PR and place the Survival of the People’s Party for Democracy and Development on that as a lynchpin?

    It will not work BECAUSE, as desirable as it may be, Bajans are slow reasoners AND THERE IS NO TIME TO ACCULTURALIZE PEOPLE.

    that is a constitutional matter which can be addressed later but IT SHOULD NOT BE THE CRUX OF ANY CAMPAIGN.

    The Power of Recall in conjunction with building foolproof cases against the DLP and the previous BlP administration.

    Run the PDP on a “clean Up” campaign that , ONCE IT NAMES THE CRIMINALS UNDER THE COVER OF PARLIAMENTARY IMMUNITY, will lock them up WHEN VOTED IN!

    The PDP must show that it is not going to be a government like the others.

    In fact, just to show its commitment to such a practice, Joseph Atherley should identify one such criminal AND BRING A CASE AGAINST HIM IN THE BARBADOS COURTS BY JANUARY OF 2020!

    This is not a game AND ONCE PEOPLE SEE THAT HE IS NOT PLAYING GAMES LIKE MUGABE MOTTLEY that will translate into support AND VOTES!

    Let us stop dancing here with the word song Ironside.

    I have long been looking for another person who has moved beyond the fancy talk TO IMPLEMENTATION.

    Bring your Marketing Skill and I will bring you the modalities to spread the message.

    Doan mind that they tried to hoodwink de ole man, GOD HAS SHOWN ME WHO THEY ARE and I am done with that!

    If the PdP is serious AND JOSEPH IS NOT A MIA PLANT, and even if he is, it does not really matter Ironside

    Like

  • Simple Simon,

    Under sixty. Studied Latin for two years and loved it. I love all languages. Some things are best said in Latin, some in English and others in Bajan. Sometimes two words in Latin can replace a whole long sentence in English. And sometimes only Bajan can convey the intended meaning. Variety is often the spice of life.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++

    To the substantive topic – trying to reform our political parties from within is like putting new wine into old wineskins.

    “When wine is new, it is in a state of fermentation. It bubbles and expands as the fermentation gases are released. A fresh, pliable wineskin can absorb such expansion and slowly age-with the wine until the fermentation process is complete.

    To put fresh wine into an old wineskin, however, is asking for trouble. The old wineskin has assumed a definite shape and is no longer pliable. It is fixed and somewhat brittle. The activity of new wine will stress it beyond its ability to yield. And so both the wine and the skin are lost.

    We can’t put new ideas into old mindsets.”

    From Unity.org

    We need, at the very least, new parties if not a new system. We need new parties with clearly defined ideology to inform where we are looking to go and how we intend to get there. Life must be lived on the basis of some philosophy or one will do nothing but run around like a headless chicken.

    PS. Shut your mouth, GP and leave this Bible illiterate alone! See how I have defended your use of Latin!😜

    Like

  • @ Commander Theophillus Gazerts

    I think you are not understanding what is happening here between Ironside and myself when you speak about “hymnal”

    Neither Ironside or I, is a candidate, but we are both citizens with a passion to see Barbados being run as a meritocracy and not a dictatorship

    We both acknowledge that the current duopoly has brought us here AND WE BOTH SEE THAT ADHERENCE TO THE SAME MODEL, will kill us!

    Ironside’s post was placed here today AND WATCH HOW MANY COMMENTS IT HAS ATTRACTED from specific thinkers!

    But beyond all that Theophillus THE PDP IS HERE!

    and what Ironzide and I, and you, and Mr Codrington and all the others here are doing is giving them real time fodder for them to chew on!

    Observe that the Rented Jackass came and hinted at T in BERT or the Technology side of Mugabe’s regime

    Which he cant keep quiet about.

    So by now the IT Shadow Minister of the PDP HAS TO UNDERSTAND THAT, if they dont up their game, MUGABE GOING BRING SOME TECHNOLOGY TO THE TABLE that is supposed to bedazzle bajans, Theophillus

    This blog IS NOT FOR ME, or You or Ironside, IT IS FOR THE PDP!

    And once you understand what we are doing here, then you understand THE HYMNAL!

    Like

  • @ Ironside

    How many candidates should the PdP field?

    They should only field 24!

    No more!

    And why is that Ironside? Because ***

    Now of those 24 seats should anyone be allocated to the seat of Mugabe Mottley?

    ***!

    Why or why not?

    Debate for 20 points!

    As you continue submitting your points there are two things we both must recognise here.

    We are both hopefully making recommendations to advance the PDP.

    De ole man sees things with my physical eyes and with the Third Eye which others have “frontlets” on.

    So, there will come a time when I will know who you are AND WHAT YOU ARE FLOATING WILL BE PELLUCID.

    IT HAS TO BE CLEARLY DEFINED FOR THE PDP WHAT THEY NEED TO DO TO WIN!

    CLEARLY SPELT OUT YET UNCLEAR TO THE BLP THAT IS WATCHING THIS SPACE!

    THE DLP IS NOT A THREAT and Donville’s INCARCERATION will see to that Notwithstanding Mugabe Mottley’s efforts to frig up the evidence the United States government is requesting.

    They, the PDP need a track to run on that permits them to make inroads into the minds of Bajans.

    Not red herring actions that will waste time with an illiterate population.

    Your turn!

    Like

  • You have gone from zero to 77 comments after being posted slightly after 11.30 am this morning on the 9th of November 2019.

    Your first commentator was no less than Mr. Vincent Codrington!

    That alone is instructive of the import of this topic that you have floated!

    Mr. Codrington IS NOT A LIGHTWEIGHT, IN ANY DEPARTMENT Ironside

    He does not speak often here on Barbados Underground but when he speaks, EVERY SINGLE TIME HE SPEAKS, NOT ONE OF HIS SUBMISSIONS IS DRIVEL!

    Like mine heheheheh

    And he does not cuss, like me.

    Now, what does that mean?

    If Mr. Codrington is here ALL THE PDP BIG GUNS ARE HERE.

    AND YOU ALSO SEE THAT THE RENTED JACKASS IS HERE TOO!

    Install Qubes OS on your machine and use it to continue browsing and posting on Barbados Underground.

    There are several tutorials on you tube that will permit you to effect a basic installation IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS AND ONGOING CAMPAIGNS.

    If you are going to run this 3rd party initiative to completion you will need more secure tools

    Like

  • SirSimpleSimonPresidentForLife

    @The PDP must use the immunity provided for under Parliament TO EXPOSE THE THIEVERY OF THE DEMOCRATIC LABOUR PARTY by using the Reports of the Auditor General IN CONJUNCTION WITH FILES THAT FELL OFF THE TRUCK!!!”

    The PDP leader is a long time member of the BLP, not so? We trust that there has been no thievery in the BLP, nothing negative said by the Auditor General during any BLP administration. We trust that nothing falls off a truck.

    Like

  • One more comment before de ole man lef you.

    Expect that by tomorrow EVERY POSSIBLE TOPIC ON THE EARTH IS GOING TO FLOOD BARBADOS UNDERGROUND.

    you will see a plethora of jobby topics on everything from what is proportion of the size of the balls on an elephant to the size of a black ant in the tree at the Parliament buildings to what is their inverse gravitational rate of attraction to Mugabe’s balls.

    Watch and see if what de ole man says is true

    Like

  • I don’t think the majority of Bajan give a damn about parties.

    Three sets of Dudleys …. man … we just can’t afford.

    Admittedly it was in another system but Trump won without the Republican Party of which he is a member … in fact with its active opposition, even till now.

    People are fed up with parties.

    Individuals who can make a difference and are believable are more likely to win seats because they earned the vote of a majority in the constituencies they seek to represent.

    Parties will continue to get the vote by default.

    In the absence of committed individuals, all the DLP has to do is present 30 candidates next time and in all probability, it will win the Government.

    So if I were an individual thinking of running for Parliament I would not be trying to bring proposals to put pressure on the BLP.

    That only legitimizes it.

    I would be doing like Trump.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+kick+ass&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=Tg72zvcdrD_i4M%253A%252CfVL_1l8wSWCV1M%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kS5HdARPdd8cWqI4nGQYVxy10wHvA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7tPLGw97lAhWStlkKHRV-A7UQ9QEwAHoECAQQBg#imgrc=Tg72zvcdrD_i4M:

    Like

  • @ Simple Simon

    You are starting to understand exactly what the ole man is saying.

    If Atherley is serious about winning and putting Barbados first as he is saying then he will make himself into the Sacrificial Lamb for the PdP

    That means he will use the Auditor General ‘s Report to expose BOTH THE DLP AND THE BLP.

    This is where the rubber hits the road for Atherley and will permit bajans to see the PdP ideology as it relates to their social and economic programs and policies for the nation and their commitment to ensuring individual freedom, upholding transparency and enacting true anti corruption practices.

    If he only seeks to prosecute the DLP, then his PdP will fail.

    And as you are indirectly hinting WE MUST DEMAND THAT HE ACTS WOTHOUT BIAS.

    AND SO MUST THE CASWELL FRANKLYNs and Crystal Drakes and Hennis’ and Weatherheads and all the rest who have joined his party.

    You are starting to understand de ole man AND I AM AFRAID ABOUT THAT.

    Like

  • When one chooses to invoke the name of Trump it is all downhill from there. Please no Trump or Trumpology for Barbados. What we have is bad enough.

    Like

  • nextparty246
    November 6, 2019 11:44 PM

    Ironside:
    There is no jealousy towards Atherley or the pdp.
    Perhaps if you asked more questions, rather than consistently make false assertions, you could provide better advice. But your advice is mostly irrelevant because is is based on entirely false assertions and accusations.
    I supported Atherley’s move to form an opposition. I agreed with his choice of Caswell and pledged my full support to him. All of this is easily verifiable. So your jealousy accusation is pure rubbish – so why would you make it?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Here is where I think you lost the plot.

    You should have moved in for the kill!!

    Like

  • Ironside:

    As you noted, and as is described in the article you referenced, there are several models of proportional representation. Each of them will be a significant change to the current electoral system.

    While it is an interesting idea, the fear that you describe is natural if a proposed new system is not clear. You cannot expect people to follow you when you have not even defined where you want to go.

    Again, it is an interesting idea, but it needs better definition.

    I asked this question before, but the only response was pdp hate. So let me try again.

    We have not been well served by past politicians. They have consistently promised, and broke their promises. The public already knows what to expect of the BLP and DLP politicians. They would naturally think that third party politicians are the same opportunistic persons who who just want a lifetime pension.

    What should they do to show that they are not like the politicians to which they are accustomed?

    Like

  • Another convert?

    So soon?

    John you have echoes what de ole man said in my pictures and Stoopid Cartoons

    Here are your exact words minus the NOT

    “…So if I were an individual thinking of running for Parliament I would be trying to bring proposals to put pressure on the BLP….”

    De ole man removed your not heheheheh

    DELIVERABLES!!!

    THIS IS WHAT THE PdP has to bring!

    Somethings, multiple meaningful things that show people that they can deliver!

    A lawsuit filed against the DLP for malfeasance by Jan 1 2021 coupled with The Power of Recall announcement AND PEOPLE START SEEING THEM IN THE NEWSPAPERS AND HEARING BOUT DEM IN THE RUMSHOPS AND AT DE HAIRDRESSER.

    I could even tell dem what to do bout de crime in the streets!

    I wonder if Joe is really serious though?

    Like

  • John:

    No need for ‘killing’.

    The pdp have the same right to run as do any of the other 11 parties. The problem is that, for whatever reason, the pdp are the only truly hateful party, as clearly evidenced by the unrelenting hate expressed by their candidates and supporters who comment on BU and the rest of social media.

    They think that they are harming me. They are not. They are only harming their party.

    Like

  • I was did promise to go and sleep but all de people coming at the midnight hour

    Even Bedroom Policeman aka Grenville Phillips has crawled out the woodwork like a local Dracula.

    He asks the question about what to do!

    Can you believe that Ironside?

    You tell he bout showing balls and attacking mugabe instead of complimenting her!

    De woman invite 5 drug lords to Parliament Bedroom Policeman have you anything to say to her bout dat?

    How would they know dat you ent de same you night bat?

    By delivering something?

    Last year did same time you said Wentwood College going train people for free in nuff different Entrepreneurial skills.

    I was did axe you to provide a M&E report after they completed your fallacy course.

    Where are the graduate?

    What are their names?

    Why dem is not in the newspapers?

    Are these student who you were going to employ like the invisible candidates in your one man party?

    What we want Grenville IS ONE THING – DELIVERABLES!!!

    Like

  • nextparty246
    November 9, 2019 10:30 PM

    John:
    No need for ‘killing’.
    The pdp have the same right to run as do any of the other 11 parties. The problem is that, for whatever reason, the pdp are the only truly hateful party, as clearly evidenced by the unrelenting hate expressed by their candidates and supporters who comment on BU and the rest of social media.
    They think that they are harming me. They are not. They are only harming their party.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The PDP or PdP or pdp at the time did not exist.

    You let your adversary slip the noose!!

    Like

  • … but then, so too did all the other 10 parties or whatever!!

    Spilt milk or game on?

    Like

  • @Mariposa

    Can you tell us if the “A Decade of Achievements” panel discussion presented by the St. Philip Branches of the DLP, slated for 5 p.m. at Princess Margaret School on Sunday 17, November is sanctioned by the executive of the Party? I have checked the DLP facebook page and there is not mention of this event there.

    Like

  • Bajan in Ny contrary to popular decision often heard on Bu referencing mariposa as a DLP insider
    I am not privy to decisions or discussions held within the DLP party
    The answer to your question therfore reads i do not know
    However i think that any past minister should step up and speak out against any lies that present govt makes publicly against the dlp when they were in goverence challenging present govt to bring proof
    Evidence has shown that Mia speaks bodly about corruption but either lack the will to prosecute past govt ministers or has used the strategy of smoke and mirrors to lie to the people

    Like

  • @MariposaNovember 10, 2019 1:01 AM

    Apologies, I thought the folks who accused you of being a party insider knew what they were talking about – lol.

    Like

  • @Inronside/Doc Martin, I applied the proportional representation calculation to the two previous landslide election results in Bim and came up with the following:

    The DLP 24 BLP 3 in 1986 would have been DLP 16 BLP 11 and the BLP 26 DLP 2 in 1999 would have been BLP 18 DLP 10.

    Most interesting of all BLP 19 DLP 8 NDP 1 in 1994 would have been BLP 13 DLP 11 NDP 4. What a difference that would have been with Dr. Richie Haynes and our man William Skinner holding the balance of power.

    The question is, would Bajans vote the same way if they are voting for parties rather than for individual candidates.

    Like

  • What should they do to show that they are not like the politicians to which they are accustomed?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I told you what they should do.

    What they should not do is bend over.

    All politicians currently do that to one extent or another.

    Like

  • The single thing any opposition party should be doing is trying to force an election based on the nullity of the result of the last election.

    The PDP can’t/won’t join in that effort because to do so would be to question its own legitimacy.

    This would be a test of the maturity of the existing “opposition” parties who actually have received peoples’ votes.

    What are they going to do to discharge that responsibility?

    The current HoA cannot countenance Proportional Representation so this simple plank should be the plank all opposition parties coalesce around.

    Remember Duverger’s law … it works against any third party in a first past the post system.!!

    The election has to be on the basis of first past the post.

    The issue of proportional representation can be (or not depending on the winner) put to a referendum by the party who wins.

    If the B’s win and a real Government can be formed with a proper opposition it is unlikely they will put it.

    But that is the responsibility of the opposition.

    Who knows, if the current “opposition” parties can make this a national issue, then the B’s may not have an option but to put that in their manifesto if they want to play!!

    Now, if we had a half decent court system the question could be put in court.

    The CCJ decision on Guyana may very well have a bearing on the outcome.

    There really is only one thing the “opposition” parties should be doing.

    Like

  • … besides, how would the leader of a party who has lent his support to Reverend Joe now tell a court Parliament is invalid?

    Did the DLP say anything?

    They probably have the moral high ground to question the validity of Parliament in court.

    But will they?

    Just wait out the term and let the small parties disappear!!

    Like

  • “The question is, would Bajans vote the same way if they are voting for parties rather than for individual candidates.”

    What % of voters today, do you think votes for party vs candidate?

    Like

  • @Fearless Leader
    My comment was not about the exchange between you and Ironside.

    I blogged under a pseudonym even though it does not matter at this time. But, one day I may decide to return to Barbados and would like to return and start with a clean slate. …….

    Some here are quite knowledgeable, are on the island and who blog use their real names; some may use a ‘pseudonym, but their depth of knowledge on some subject subject matter may provide insight into identity.

    We need these folks to feel free to contribute and not as if they are running a gauntlet. We need to maintain an atmosphere where the brave mice and others can give us their opinions.
    .
    It bothers me when Lorenzo or anyone else focuses on a specific individual. Whilst the threat from 3rd parties may be yet non-existent, it always seem as if some here are developing and enemies list.

    My concern is always about the individual blogger

    Like

  • A Happy and prosperous morning to Barbados

    Like

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