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Dr Michael Howard’s many questions were recently answered by the Barbados Economic Recovery Team (BERT) economist, Dr Greenidge.  Hopefully he can answer our single question.

Let me first state that BERT’s austerity-based solution will likely work.  The austerity is supposed to be very severe, for as long as it needs to be until it works, which is expected to be many years.

The severity and duration of the foreseen suffering of the Barbadian public was the only reason why we designed a non-austerity alternative.  When we tried to share it with the last administration, we were promised that the only way it would be heard is if we entered the political trench.  We naively believed the promise, entered the trench, but were never allowed an opportunity to be heard.

To our knowledge, two other entities independently designed non-austerity plans, resulting in three non-austerity plans on the proverbial table.  But Solutions Barbados was the only entity that entered the political trench.

We now have a new administration and a new promise by a new Prime Minister.  Her first directive was that all ideas should contend.  Therefore, our question is: why has BERT not allowed a review of any of the non-austerity plans?  If it was an oversight, then since Dr Greenidge seems to be the BERT spokesperson, can he spare 2 hours to meet with us to assess our plan?  If he is too busy, then can he authorise a non-partisan accountant and/or economist or a panel of them to review our plan?  If it was not an oversight, then why is BERT violating that prime directive?

I am fully aware that Dr Greenidge’s traditional training would not likely have included non-austerity methods, much a surgeon’s would not likely have included alternative natural methods.  Therefore, let me suggest an analogy to hopefully spark his interest in what he may not know.

Let’s say that there are two main approaches to treating cancer.  The traditional more popular surgery, drugs and radiation (chemotherapy) which traumatises the body, and the alternative-health natural remedies mainly consisting of herbs, diet and exercise, which do not traumatise the body.

The traditional medical practitioners have convinced the Government that theirs is the only way to treat cancer, despite the proven success of alternative-health methods.  Therefore, traditional practitioners receive all of the national health budget and prestige, and are viewed as credible.

Traditional medical practitioners are not normally trained in alternative health methods.  However, rather than learn about them to improve patient-care, many use their prestige to irresponsibly ridicule what they do not understand, and dismissively reject alternative-health practitioners as persons on the fringe.

When we were facing economic ruin, the traditionalists recommended the only thing that they understood, namely, traumatic austerity.  Others designed alternative non-austerity non-traumatic solutions.  Dr Greenidge is urged to resist the temptation to be close-minded on this critical matter.

Since I may not get another shot at this, let me try to reason with him.  This may be a hard task since he may still be euphoric that an agreement appears to have been reached with the IMF, and he has the support of the private sector and unions, who are trying to convince us that the austerity that we are about to experience in exchange for an IMF agreement is unavoidable.

He should be aware that IMF personnel also agreed with our non-austerity plan, but they thought that it contained a fatal flaw.  They said that it depended on the unions’ support, and based on the unions’ adversarial relationship with the DLP administration, they thought that the unions would never agree.  However, we met with the NUPW, BWU and CTUSAB, and all three agreed to participate.  Therefore, the IMF’s singular concern was effectively resolved.  Mr Greenidge, please allow both ideas to contend – for the public good.

Grenville Phillips II is a Chartered Structural Engineer and the founder of Solutions Barbados.  He can be reached at NextParty246@gmail.com


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160 responses to “The Grenville Phillips Column – Violating the Prime Directive”


  1. Surely it is too late for what Gtrenville is asking of Dr. Greenidge?


  2. Not too late………..BUT WAY TOO LATE!


  3. Pure nonsense what Grenville is asking of Greenidge et al.The horse has already bolted out the stables my friend.

    The train is already on the track and in motion.

    Now you better spend your time doing what Prof.Michael Howard and Owen Arthur are doing – and that is critiquing what is happening going forward and providing your alternatives .


  4. ITS NEVER TOO LATE…FAITH CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS! FAITH IS NOT BLIND IT SHOWS US HOW TO PROCEED….

    MR. PHILLIPS HAD A PLAN SINCE 2015 AND THEY DID NOT WANT TO LISTEN THEN AND SEEMS THAT THEY STILL DO NOT!

    THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT HIS PLAN IS WORTHLES, IF CONSIDERED IT MAY SAVE A DROWNING NATION!

    HE SHOULD BE GIVEN A EAR.

    LET OUR PETITIONS BE HEARD…THE GOVERNMENT SERVES WE THE PEOPLE NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!

    OR DO THEY PRETENTIOUSLY ASSUME TO BE THE MASTERS WITH THE PEOPLES CONSENT?

  5. sirfuzzy (i was a sheep some years ago; not a sheep anymore) Avatar
    sirfuzzy (i was a sheep some years ago; not a sheep anymore)

    The die seems to have been cast. The SB approach is not the chosen path for now.

    But i am sure they will incorporate many of the ideas u are proposing and will implement them if the original BErT does not pay off?
    Please don’t wait await around for any thank you, it politics and that is the way they roll.


  6. Grenville should have had this out there every day at least a year leading up to the election instead of misusing all that negative energy trying to peep into people’s bedrooms to see what type of porn they were watching…

    Priorities.


  7. The is firmly locked in the policies of the duopoly. Why are we not taking notes from the other countries that are/have negotiated/ing and IMF program? We know the DLPites are opposing for the sake of it.

    How do we know this you ask?

    There is the record of the last decade.


  8. The clueless masses and GP have still not realized that BERT is just the beginning. As soon as the conditions of the IMF loan are not met, the new gov will introduce new measures for adjustment. We will face BERT II-IV from 2020 to 2022.

    However, the clueless masses deserve the said medicine since they voted twice for the blue economic terror.


  9. GP
    The patient chose – The traditional more popular surgery, drugs and radiation (chemotherapy).

    You have approximately five more years (plus the past three) to convince the patient that herbal is/was better.

    The results will be the same!


  10. I remember vividly the big stink Grenville made about this porn thing of which he wanted to be head CENSORSHIP king…

    ..he had Facebook and all social media hopping…why did he not do the same to introduce his Economy Recovery Plan..use the same energy he used back then about the porn..when he ended up getting cussed for his troubles..


  11. Grenville is misguided about having a ‘non-austerity plan’
    What non-austerity plan what??!!

    There is NO WAY to reverse 25 years of doing shiite without MUCH pain and sacrifice…..short of some kinda magic or mass extinction…

    If ISO9001 was introduced, there would be MASSIVE dislocation as thousands of incompetent jokers would fail to meet the required levels of performance….
    Chaos would ensue as our incompetent lawyers and other ‘leaders’ come to recognise their inability to perform in a modern competitive society…
    The Unions would go to war – in their ongoing aim to protect the ‘rights’ of non-productive brass bowls to get salaries and wages in line with hardworking, creative people in other jurisdictions…

    Grenville is being idealistic in his projections….

    His scenario would have needed to start 40 YEARS ago – with the kind of leadership THINKING that we have seen in Singapore and China …. rather than being guided (as it was) by the thinking out of the UK and USA …where those countries had the LUXURY of living off the proceeds of slavery, after multiple CENTURIES of rape of other continents….

    Austerity is UNAVOIDABLE…. his particular proposal was just more proactive…


  12. As said before,

    more austerity will come.

    BERT is just the first step, since Barbados will not fulfil the conditions of the IMF-loan. One cannot retain all the lazy laggards in the civil service, the peg, the many ministries, the low work ethic and the outdated habits of the Deep South (like nepotism and corruption) at the same.

    Barbadians should start praying that the Guyanese will come into Barbados and invest their petro-dollars from 2020 on. The average male Barbadian citizen should buy vaseline and prepare for some special extra income in the new clubs at the Platinum (then: Guyana) Coast …

    Do I blame PM MAM for this development? NO. If she decides to introduce some BERT II to IV, I will be the first to support devaluation and advocate the shrinking of the bloated laggard service. The new gov just needs to copy all the austerity measures from Greece. We reached stage 2 out of 10 on the Greek scale of tragedy so far.


  13. Hell no !not opposing for the sake
    My oposition lies in the bare faced lies told on the campagain trail by Mia mounted on deceitful utterances instead in truthfulness and a straightforward plan of telling the barbadian people their choice of going to the IMF for financial support
    So now the expectations of thepopulace are to be supportitive
    of austerity measures which would leave barbadians for a long time buried in debt
    Now those who question and voiced opinion are told to keep mouth shut
    For one on a population of 275 where a considerable are elderly and the remainder on limited salaries dont see how this plan can work without a growth plan which can sustain this economy for many years
    The heavy economic burden placed on the people would be too hard to bear


  14. @ Tron
    Do you and others really believe that a country that achieved adult suffrage and independence so quickly after slavery , was built by lazy people?
    Do you realize there are still people working for less than $300. per week?
    Why do you think after fifty two years of independence we still talking about economic enfranchisement for the majority of our citizens?
    It is time we stop beating up on the public servants and the workers.
    The BLPDLP have collectively failed to manage our country and have convinced us that the blame is to be placed elsewhere. Now we all using the public servants and hard working people as scapegoats.
    What about the private sector ? What is their track record?
    It’s a national shame but we would say anything just to make the decadent BLPDLP look good.
    We have one of the best public service in the entire world.
    Our working class is as productive as any in the world.
    Stop drinking the watery cool aid from George and Roebuck Streets.
    You think that Barbados was built by magic ?
    It was built by the blood sweat and tears of the working class. The majority of public servants have done our country proud. They come from the same hard working working class.
    Time to throw away the look aid !!!!

  15. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    What does this mean, “He should be aware that IMF personnel also agreed with our non-austerity plan…”?

    Is there any documented confirmation point by point of the IMF official’s agreement on aspects of the Solutions plan!

    How can such a serious person like Mr Phillips continue to make these unsubstantiated claims…have we ever been given the benefit of the certified accountant or whomever expert it was who affirmed the Solutions economic plan?

    @BushTea when does idealism and naivity morph into simple public grandstanding!


  16. A govt that heavily depended on one arm bandits for years for financial support for the up keep of an economy is surely deserving of the poison being meted by a new form of bandits called the IMF
    It is almost laughable to hear the Unions supporting plans to put workers on the bread line
    The hypocrisy of it all sends a message of self interest having nothing to do with the interest of barbados
    Where are the highly touted growth plans the present govt talked about when in oppisition
    Certainly after the 4000 workers collectively are dismissed in a four year span barbados would not much closer to paying its debt as the revolving credit door expands further


  17. @ William S at 10 :26 AM

    I agree with all you said in this submission. I especially like: “Time to throw away the look aid”

    The lens are scratched and twisted. We are experiencing distorted vision in so far as we think it is reality.

    There is no substitute for restructuring the productive base and increasing productivity in the mature and Public sectors. Can the Tourism Sector not do its own product development and product promotion ? Do you think it still requires these millions of dollars in GoB subsidies for marketing and road trips ?

    Just trying to reduce Big Government and Socialist Dependency.
    Or maybe I am being mischievous ?
    In any case time to think outside the box and deciding what the Public Sector shoulld really be responsible for.


  18. I meant to write ” Road Show Trips abroad .”


  19. @ Dribbles
    when does idealism and naivity morph into simple public grandstanding!
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Every single day and every single hour … especially here on BU.
    But NO ONE comes even near to William.

    William thinks that our problem is a DBLP failure…
    Yet his NDP had no better ideas than does Solutions or even the PDP…
    It is not clear to Bushie what he prescribes as a solution…

    The problem is clearly MUCH MORE widespread…. it is about endemic brass bowlery…
    It is about having BASIC, FUNDAMENTAL misconceptions about life itself and about what ‘success’ means.

    NO JOURNEY can realistically be completed successfully unless you know what the final destination is…
    …and – If you THINK that the destination is Tokyo, ….when in fact the programmed port of arrival is Stuttgart….
    ….you ass is effectively grass…


  20. Back again with the same unsubstantiated rhetoric.
    “They (IMF) said that it depended on the unions’ support”….what exactly does that mean? Support of what….the 10% tax rate, the implementation/results of ISO, the waivers or penalties within the SB platform?
    Where is the report on numbers to prove your points, which you claim exists? The difference between austerity and non-austerity is merely numbers and where they fall.


  21. @ Bush Tea

    I am simply saying that two political parties have dominated the management of our country for sixty three consecutive years. You cannot dent that they are collectively responsible for the current mess. I have always given ideas about how to run the country. I don’t have all the answers neither do you. I have never accused you of grand standing- that’s not my role.
    As for the NDP: I contested one election in 1991. You should peruse that manifesto. My signature is in that one.
    You don’t know if the NDP ,Solutions Barbados or the UPP would have or could have done better. They never governed.
    To put it mildly: The BLPDLP have gone equally well and equally badly.
    Like you, my friend, I am one voice.


  22. @WS
    you asked this yesterday and I answered it….”What about the private sector ?”
    They are doing seemingly well, investing everywhere apart from Barbados. They are investing in Guyana, Latin America, other Caribbean islands, Canada, the USA, Ecuador, PR and elsewhere.
    The question becomes…why?


  23. @ William
    We are not far apart.

    However by pinpointing the BDLP you give the impression that it COULD have been better under DIFFERENT political leadership. This is where we digress….
    ALL the political voices have been equally misguided -even when they speak in different terms…

    The change in leadership needed requires a MUCH MORE fundamental revolution in thinking…
    Something that we have YET to come to grips with…
    Unless we can collectively come to understand the correct DESTINATION….we are spinning top in mud…
    Our EDUCATION SYSTEM and ITS THRUST is key to this requirement…

    In short,
    While the DESIGNATED port of call is Stuttgart, some of us head for Tokyo, some for New York …and Grenville wants to sell us on a holiday destination of fun and frolic…. Hawaii


  24. Northern Observer at 11:25 AM

    I do not know the source of your information. If you are correct,should these investments not form part of the country’s foreign reserves? Maybe the Barbados corporations are diversifying their investment portfolios geographically. That is good risk management practice.
    Do we have tax exchange information treaties with these countries? If not why not? Every other country is doing it.


  25. @ William Skinner September 13, 2018 10:26 AM

    William,

    Barbadians had some goals in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. And they knew that there is a link between work ethic and growth. However, during OSA´s reign Barbadians changed their attitude. They got accustomed to the belief that they can live large on foreign credit, to the belief that they are so special that foreign investors must beg Barbadians to come into the country and that they can sell every doghouse for the price of a villa, to the belief that they are somehow better than the rest of the Caribbean.

    Barbadians must turn around and focus on the common good instead running after every SUV and fast food they watch on American TV. The country lost the soul. If you look around Barbados today and if you see all the heavy trucks, SUVs and the amount of obesity, you think you live in some poor ghetto in Florida, but not on an island in the West Indies.

    Wake up and realize that there is more wrong on this island than just economic numbers. What does Barbados stand for in 2018?


  26. Bushie is correct. When you start wrong you will end wrong unless you make a RADICAL change. We have to begin at the beginning.


  27. @ Bush Tea
    Since the mid 70s along with such progressive voices as John Cumberbatch, former president of the Barbados Union of Teachers(BUT) and others, I have been calling for a radical reform of the educational system. It has all fallen on deaf ears.
    You will have to explain how we are going to get change if those who govern us do not want change.
    The BLPDLP must shoulder a considerable amount of the blame because they govern.
    Your position that the other parties have no alternatives is not entirely true. You and others pour scorn on every idea brought by the new parties. That was done to the NDP as well. The sad truth is that very few can even imagine a government that is not BLPDLP although the lack of vision is there for all to see.
    In others words we assume that other entities will do the same and that has not been yet proven.


  28. @ Tron
    You asked: What does Barbados stand for in 2018 ?

    Bragging that we can quickly get an IMF loan.


  29. @VC
    “should these investments not form part of the country’s foreign reserves?” So the assets of a private company, incorporated who knows where, are to form ‘part of the country’s foreign reserves’? Just recently an over exuberant US law firm, who had participated in a deal involving a Bajan related business, was spewing about the deal and the formation of an entity in the Cayman Islands.
    Wasn’t some St Lucia incorporated entity involved in the purchase of BHL by AmBev? Ditto for WIRD by Maison Ferrand.
    Isn’t this what frustrates the IRS with the likes of Apple, Alphabet, Microsoft etc etc
    The world’s biggest competition is between sovereign nations to collect tax? They really do not care about anything other than collecting, and the flip side, of when they do not get to collect. This is why the incidence of consumption based taxes has grown everywhere, it is the one tax governments seem capable of collecting.
    WWIII is ongoing, fought every day, the battle ground is taxation.


  30. A thorough assement of our educational system shows a system that is only running on two wheels wherby its graduates can not accomplished all that is necessary to compete in a global market that is defined and driven by technolgy
    Technology has moved faster into the robotic age where techincal skills are required
    Barbados is still trying to advance a business model by way technolgy


  31. What?

    May be you are on to something!


  32. To all the people on BU who are bellyaching……………..

    What if the BLP had come to office and found 2.5 billion dollars in foreign reserves like the DLP did in 2008 and not 225 million……………..

    What if the BLP had come to office and found a national debt of 7 billion like the DLP did in 2008 and not 15 plus billion…………with nothing to show for the 9 billion added………

    What if the BLP had come to office and did not face debts of 1.5 billion owed for goods and services…………

    If only the DLP did not destroy this economy by having a economic novice as the Minister of Finance……..the BLP would not have to go to the IMF and we would not be taking about BERT 1, 2, 3 or 4.

    We are at this junction because of the despicable DLP……….and that is a FACT.

    No wonder the people of Barbados kick wunnah tails to the curb……giving wunnah only two boxes in the heart of St John………you yardfowls are past ridiculous.


  33. Cause yall too badminded…again ..Ronald Jones former idiot of education had the opportunity since 2010…to advance technology in Barbados…particularly programming, web development etc…to a level that would have sustained the econmy…because if the cash flow involved..and he refused because he is backward and was too full of himself..

    So don’t even think of blaming this on Mia..I wont let you…not when I know differently.


  34. Since Jones is now chancellor at some school or other, ya should ask him to check and see where the exhibition/scholars from 2010 who studied technology are and what they are doing…

    ……imagine if his head had not been stuck so far up his as* and he had promoted technology with the island having a minimum 40 exhibition/scholare every year since 2010…along with the introduction of technology in every school for those so inclined..and I am not talking about the outdated coding that is currently found in the secondary schools, there are many updated versions available ..everywhere..

    Just imagine where the island’s economy would be now..


  35. @ WARU
    So don’t even think of blaming this on Mia..I wont let you…not when I know differently.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    What do you know differently Sis…?
    Look how you just sell out the Bushman to William nuh…

    Wuh Mia did her part in NOT addressing the Educational issue too…

    LOL
    That brings us to the OTHER (real) problem…

    Since the BLIND cannot lead the blind
    …else they all perish….
    .. kindly suggest WHO will guide our education reform….

    GP?
    LOL
    ha ha ha
    MURDA!!!


  36. @ Prodigal Son September 13, 2018 1:35 PM

    Prodigal,

    I think that everybody knows that you cannot blame the doctor (present gov) for the nasty side effects of the IMF programme to drive out the virus called Sinckleria and all the blue bacteria of Goddess Bim´s body.

    The present gov has very limited options, given all the resistance in various gov departments against all kind of reforms.


  37. I blame a society whose interest is self induced
    An educational system promoting a model of doctors and lawyers and teachers all good but does nothing for the graduate to put back any entrepreneurship skill to build an economy
    Those that manage our educational system need to take a page out of China’s
    Reason why the whole world is knocking at China front door trying to learn and understand how their citizens/country are so well prepared to compete in a global economy


  38. “why the whole world is knocking at China front door”…..drop the Bajan wage rate to $2.50/hr and see how many come knocking at our door?
    It was revealed in the latest NA trade talks, that BMW was opening a plant in Mexico, the negotiated wage rate was US$1.50/hr. Nothing to do with the Mexican educational system.


  39. China is killing it’s people with pollution. Can’t you people understand? Can’t you think at all? Stop looking to others and just think for yourselves. Ponder on Bushie’s question – what is supposed to be our destination. Then figure out how we can get there. Take of the white man’s blinkers, nuh!


  40. That’s supposed to be its people not it’s.


  41. Sometimes I ask myself how people who have been in the forefront and the pinnacle of power the past twenty five years and more can now so skillfully pretend, that they were oblivious to where the country was going.
    The whole country is in a state of amnesia. This is the third trip to the IMF. We have been talking about restructuring government for at least thirty five years.
    We sat idly by and watch the world get on the information highway while we pretended that it could wait on us.
    There is not one single problem that is new. The country has been on automatic pilot since the mid 70s.
    Nothing that is wrong with the country started in 2008.Anybody claiming that is blatantly intellectually dishonest. It simply got worse.
    To be now told that we will see some light in 2033 is absolutely nothing to be proud of. And that is no guarantee.
    They should hold a joint press conference and admit they collectively ruined the country.
    Let us now hope for the best and stop pretending …………..


  42. @ NorthernObserver September 13, 2018 2:32 PM

    A car plant in Barbados? LOL

    Barbadian men would break down if they had to work in batches 360 x 24 hours per year.


  43. “Look how you just sell out the Bushman to William nuh…”

    Lol…Mia might could take blame for another era of folly, but Jones was well placed in 2010 to drive and ride the wave of Technology that gripped the world at that time, he deliberately missed that opportunity because of no vision and his dumbness..he should shoulder this blame alone..


  44. GP you say, oh no, don’t wish that on young minds, please..lol


  45. Since Mia was this great Education Minister – can anyone name any positive and impactful achievement during her tenure as Minister there?

    Did I hear someone say a large part of the 400 million dollars for Edutech given to BLP candidate John Williams sugary sweet sons and to this day most of those outdated computers rusting and thrown out the school – yet ,no proficiency was developed in the primary school children and close to half billion dollars lost;

    Is she to be heralded then for shutting down the schools nationwide so as to go up at the Gymnasium to hear Edwin Yearwood sing?

    What then are her great achievements in Education.

    I tell wunnah already some of you all will get sell for ten cents because once somebody can throw around a few words – whether or not what they are saying makes sense – then you all ready to coronate them as queen or king.Steupes.


  46. @T.Inniss

    Now if you can get the electorate to buy into your tired narrative that was soundly rejected in May 2018.

  47. Piece Uh De Rock Yeah Right Avatar
    Piece Uh De Rock Yeah Right

    Like many here I accept that the Educational System is outdated and needs to be redesigned to meet our needs.

    Like many here i will say that the issues are multi sectoral and do not just relate to one issue but man.

    But I also know that the journey of 1,000 miles begins with the first step.

    And that first step for the Chairman begins with firing the indolent.

    After she has gotten rid of the DLP lackeys who are there to ef up the workings of the new administration then she has to get rid of the slaggards.

    So for example people who she has to send home would be dat man who has been holidaying on the water compound for 10 years, the phone salesman and the Mewannasay-yes but in African piece of waste who hates de bajans who were slaves unlike him.

    The names for the list would be evident and easily confirmed by the people who want to remain.

    De ole man would suggest sending out the Stoopid Cartoon below

    https://i.imgur.com/iUSkKKV.png

    Accompanied by another Survey Monkey Poll which would get each staff member to log on with their username and password and tick off the names of the various staff members in their department.

    THey will tik the ones that they want to stay and say why.

    So if you work at the Planning Department at the MTW and that department has 5 staff members then that person will have a username and password for all their staff and their supervisor and the PS in their particular group.

    This reporting mechanism is really a Goebbels strategy to have people snitch on other staff as they seek to preserve themselves.

    It is the best 360 Review one can implement in the short term.

    Now in the process of firing YOU MUST ONLY FIRE 800 NEVER 1,000 at the first pass.

    This way you can hold the remaining 200 empty slots over the heads of those that remain TO INCENTIVIZE THE REST THAT REMAIN.

    Anything else is going to take too much time.


  48. T.Inniss,

    We can measure the success or failure of a minister by results; in the case of education, by outcomes of school children, graduates and national scholars. By the number of patents registered in our patent court; and by how we compare relative to our Caribbean peers and to our global peers.

    @Northern Observer,

    In the 1960 and 70s hundreds of Bajans worked on the production line of Vauxhall in |Luton, just outside London, and Ford, in Dagenham, in East London. An uncle of mine, Arthur, worked from the 1950s to the early 90s on a car production line in the West Midlands. He died in his 90s. Bajans can work with discipline if they have to. Just asks the returnees who worked on London Transport. What they would not do is work with any discipline in Barbados. The problem is cultural.


  49. @William

    Who is saying the problems started in 2008? What many have been suggesting is that the government that was elected in 2008 was expected to do a better job of managing the affairs of state, accepting that government is a continuum. The same expectation is extended to Mia Mottley and her government.


  50. And around and around they go and where they stop nobody knows!

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