Time to Vote Third Parties NOT BLP and DLP

Submitted by William Skinner

As we prepare for another General Election, it is imperative that we call a spade a spade. Unless there is some unknown, mysterious progressive visionary leader hiding deep in the bowels of the Barbados Labour Party or the Democratic Labour Party, the election would follow the pattern of carnival like exercises of recent election cycles, with mega entertainment and alcohol being distributed to all and sundry including minors.

The major challenge of the fledgling third parties will be to avoid such frolic and deal with the myriad problems facing the country. They should treat the public with the seriousness it deserves and avoid making empty promises like their opponents. Contrary to popular opinion, the so-called political scientists and radio talk show gurus, the people are more prepared to listen to alternatives than at any other time since independence.

Objective observers have already concluded that if the BLP wins, it would more be a vote against the intransigence of Prime Minister Freundel Stuart, than any profound belief that Opposition Leader Mia Mottley, has any new and vibrant programs to carry the country forward. On the other hand, should the DLP pull off an unexpected victory, the country could look forward to much of the same. We have now reached the sorry state of measuring levels of mediocrity in both the BLP and DLP; many citizens are going into the voting booth with the feeling that they are simply voting for a change but with no real hope of any improvement in the management of the country.

Both parties have been given adequate time to solve problems in: housing, health services; public transportation; education, public service and judiciary reform, land reform, rural development, agriculture and all other areas of economic activity. It is now clear that outside of very successful party propaganda and window dressing, they have been failing and are now clearly out of ideas. Their daily criticisms of each other are classical examples of the pot calling the kettle black!

Our musical chairs democracy can no longer escape the reality of a new world economic order and the need to quickly adjust to the challenges it presents. The days of serving warmed over cold soup cannot continue. The only group of citizens oblivious to this reality, is the now totally blind die-hard supporters of the entrenched parties.

If current trends continue, and the scenario mentioned above proves true, Barbados would lose this election. It would be a misfortune of considerable proportions and the result would be more socio-economic diarrhoea.

82 comments

  • William Skinner is simply writing his opinion.It so happens that it carries no weight.The third parties are all wasting their time and their money.This is an election to be won by either the DLP or the BLP.There is no in between.

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  • Gabriel

    He is getting on like these third parties now come down from heaven…….pure, undefiled, untarnished, bright and brilliant.

    Everyone of them were members of the BLP, DLP or NDP.

    Now tell me how a two or three time loser like Lynette Eastmond could lead Barbados. First of all, any leader should have a seat and a safe one at that. That automatically disqualifies her……..she is not electable. With her is Wendell Callender…..a spectacular failure and David Gill another failure.

    Dont even let us talk about the next party……………..

    If the NDP was not a viable party with a leader like Richie Haynes, pray tell me how anyone of them will survive?

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  • “…..any profound belief that Opposition Leader Mia Mottley, has any new and vibrant programs to carry the country forward.”
    If Skinner listened rather than become engulfed in bitterness he would realise that “all aboard” means what it says and it appears that Mia and the BLP are engaging with a broad cross-section of Bajans at home and abroad, so it’s not about her programmes but those of Barbarians. Again, if he were not so bent on avenging his destruction at the polls in a previous election, he would admit that the new parties are not presenting anything new or workable. #whypeoplewhousetgeirrealnamearesoarrogant?

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  • An interesting article.

    Unfortunately, any rational response to this post that is not in agreement with the author’s opinion would result in him labeling the person as a “BDLP yard-fowl/apologist.”

    However, we must likewise “call a spade a spade” when analyzing these “third parties.”

    The author has not identified any “progressive visionary leader hiding deep in the bowels of the “third parties”……..

    ………nor has he presented any valid, compelling reasons why the electorate should vote for a “third party,” other than his hatred for the BLP & DLP…….. and voting just for the sake of voting for change.

    What evidence is there to substantiate that the UPP, for example, would be any different from the BLP or DLP especially under circumstances where the party consists of former BLP members (some of whom lost consecutive elections and would have previously endorsed and defended the BLP’s socio economic policies)……

    ……….that did not become disgruntled because of their opposition to these policies……..

    ………but because they felt they were unjustly treated by not being selected as BLP candidates for the 2018 general elections. Rather than articulating plans for the constituencies they are seeking to represent under a UPP banner, they seem only interested in discussing their “party grouses,”

    The UPP has an uphill task trying to convince the electorate that a “plethora” of disgruntled, former BLP members (that were consistently rejected by the electorate) have now become viable alternatives because they are “repackaged” in orange instead of red.

    Hence, the UPP essentially becomes “warmed over soup.”

    Additionally, the political criticisms and rhetoric spewed by the BLP & DLP the author deems as offensive….. have also been embraced, for example, by Solutions Barbados.

    The author should encourage Grenville Phillips II to engage his critics in discussion, rather than resort to name calling. I can only imagine Phillips II “cowering in terror” when confronted by “aggressive politicians” such as Sinckler, Mottley, Estwick, Inniss and Michael Lashley.

    Like

  • Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service

    Speaking of Michael Lashley…what is he doing in Broward County, they had 10 years to fix transport board, at this late hour when they are being thrown to the curb, they are rushing around pretending to look fir solutions..

    “Broward
    Barbados transportation leaders visit Broward
    Country wants to restructure and improve its transit system

    The Miami Times Staff Report Nov 8, 2017 0
    Barbados
    (L-R) Alex Linton, Barbados Transit Authority Director; James Fourcade, BCT Director of Maintenance; Michael Lashley, Barbados Minister of Transportation; Abdul Pandor, Barbados Transport Authority Chairman; Colin Mayers, Barbados Consul General; Corwin Gibbs, BCT Director of Bus Operations; and Chris Walton, Director of Broward County Transportation.

    BROWARD — Leaders from Barbados are looking toward Broward County as an example for how to remake that country’s transportation system.

    In recent meetings, Broward County Transportation Department Director Chris Walton recently led a delegation from Barbados’ Transit Authority on a tour of Broward County Transit’s (BCT) bus and maintenance operations, at the request of Barbados’ Consul General.

    The Barbadian government is in the process of restructuring its transit system and asked to observe BCT’s daily operations. BCT is the second largest transit system in the state of Florida and also provides services to parts of Miami-Dade and Palm Beach counties.

    The tour focused on bus dispatch, route scheduling, bus traffic control, safety and security techniques and vehicle maintenance and repair.

    “We need to increase efficiency, expand our bus service via private tours to bring in more revenue, upgrade our vehicle maintenance program and offer more advertising space on our vehicles,” said Alex Linton, Barbados’ Transport Authority director.

    The Barbadian transportation system has come under fire from government officials who complained about equipment failures and the quality of buses.

    Earlier this year, Cynthia Forde, a member of Parliament, was quoted in published reports about the service.

    “There are buses breaking down, buses and minibuses running out of diesel, un-roadworthy buses, minibuses without seats and more. We had a reliable service until around 2013 or 2014,” Forde said.

    Linton vowed to improve the service.

    “We appreciate the opportunity to showcase BCT operations to the Barbados Transport Authority. They were impressed by how well we’ve built our transit system, and admired the technology we use to track our buses, and the maintenance of our vehicles,” Walton said. “They expressed an interest in adopting similar technology as they look to modernize and expand bus service in their country.”

    BCT runs its bus operations from two separate facilities in Dania Beach and Pompano Beach”

    Like

  • @ Artax
    Enjoyed reading your response. However,
    I often refer to die hard supporters as
    apologists. I don’t refer to people as yard
    fowls.
    Over the years several politicians have
    left their parties for different reasons. For
    example Clyde Mascoll led the DLP into
    an election and then crossed the floor.
    Hamilton Lashley, Kerry Simmons etc
    have also crossed the floor or changed
    parties.
    By the way the only people who ever really
    lose or fail are those who try.

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  • Aren’t some of you missing the point? In a democracy it is the right of others regardless of their past associations to group themselves as they see fit as in this case “third parties”. We are at a juncture in our history where many have become disenchanted with the duopoly and there is rising apathy. What is wrong with encouraging those who want to contribute based on their assessment on what is required? There is a good chance third parties will not win the next government but many- including the BU household- is of the view the change process journey starts with the first step (Election). Ten or twenty years from now will be a good time to evaluate the “third parties”.

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  • Frankly speaking, people were fooled in 2008 by David Thompson. People bought into his “time for a change” jingle.

    After the elections, people gradually saw the DLP for what it was……. Deceipt, Lies and Propaganda coupled with a serious case of mismanagement. The people who truly believed what they were shovelling are the ones who are most disappointed and who are now pushing this third party crap.

    Good luck with that!

    I continue to say that if Richard Haynes with all his star power could not get a third party to take off………pray tell me how a loser like Lynette and her “winning” team like Wendell Callender and David Gill will win a government?

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  • David
    Barbados political landscape is strewn with third party and independent candidates’ carcasses over the years that I have been reading and following elections.

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  • @Gabriel

    Agree, however events when they converge at points in history oftentimes yield different results.

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  • In any given constituency

    40 % are die hard B
    40 % are die hard D
    20%, a minority, determine the election!!

    Today, die hard B and D know one thing … their respective parties are failures.

    We have all seen enough and the sewage issue drives it home.

    So the question is, what will they do about it?

    Assume the 20% are willing to take their logic to not voting, B or D?

    Lets say the two parties can hold on to 30%, down from 40%.

    Suddenly the independent or third party candidate wins with 40%.

    This time around an independent also has a shot!!!

    If that person in the constituency is only half way decent, it is a good shot.

    People are fed up with the parties … establishment!!

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  • A die hard B or D will probably not vote for D or B but they might be prepared to vote against their party!!

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  • There is a view that many voters who have traditionally voted B&D are considering the third party option as a means to protest and at the same time discharge their civic responsibility. Will they be enough to be a game changer? Probably not!

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  • The challenge here is that we have several third parties vying for the one seat!

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  • @ William

    Yes, it is true that politicians such as Clyde Mascoll, Hamilton Lashley, Kerry Symmonds “crossed the floor.”

    However, the electorate has consistently rejected David Gill, Wendell Callender, Mark Adamson and Lynette Eastmond in consecutive elections………. even when there was a swing against the incumbent party.

    Herein lies the difference.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    “Aren’t some of you missing the point?”

    Perhaps you’re the one who is missing the point…… as is evidenced by your contradictory response.

    How can any reasonable individual suggest “we are at a juncture in our history where many have become disenchanted with the duopoly and there is rising apathy,” which essentially implies that we are fed up of the BLP & DLP, and as such, “we should encourage those who want to contribute based on their assessment on what is required” (embrace the third parties)

    …… but then subsequently suggest “ten or twenty years from now will be a good time to evaluate the “third parties,” which basically means we should continue “with the duopoly” until such time the third parties are evaluated.

    Additionally, I agree that “In a democracy it is the right of others regardless of their past associations to group themselves as they see fit as in this case “third parties”.”

    However, if those individuals are disgruntled former members of political parties that lost at the polls on numerous occasions and seek to bring their “baggage” with them from their “old party” into the new parties, and use every opportunity they get to discuss old party grouses, rather than articulating new policies, as is the case with David Gill and Wendell Callender….

    ……..in a democracy it is my right to identify and critique these individuals.

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  • Amen, Artax!

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  • You need to reread what was written. As an example, in the opinion of the blogmaster pound for pound Lynette Eastmond is a better candidate than 70% of what is on offer by either party. She has demonstrated by her contributions to ministerial portfolios as a BLP member and before that in international business, she has what it takes to make a solid contribution. Because she has not demonstrated the charisma or campaign platform craft to win voter hearts and minds to date does not make her a failure or prevents her from trying again.

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  • millertheanunnaki

    @ William Skinner:
    “The major challenge of the fledgling third parties will be to avoid such frolic and deal with the myriad problems facing the country. They should treat the public with the seriousness it deserves and avoid making empty promises like their opponents. Contrary to popular opinion, the so-called political scientists and radio talk show gurus, the people are more prepared to listen to alternatives than at any other time since independence.”

    We think you would be offering advice of greater value towards electoral success if you were to argue for the unification of the myriad of third parties dotting the political landscape.

    Barbados is too small a jurisdiction with a relatively uniform political culture to justify the existence of the many disgruntled Tommy Dickey and Henrietta having his or her own political fiefdom.

    Why not promote an Umbrella Third Party under which the current alternative parties can come together to combine resources and with a common philosophical movement of change for betterment of Barbados to make it fit for purpose if it is not to become a failed state as projected on its current path to socio-economic destruction and oblivion?

    Why don’t you, WS, be honest with your political self and openly support one of the parties into which the others need to merge to represent a unifying force to replace on of the existing traditional parties as the viable Opposition?

    Unity is strength and the longest journey must begin with a single step (not multiples).

    If you are really serious about the political future of your country you need to have some ‘skin’ in the game.

    Now whom, “Skins” are you going back? Do you plan to remain on the fence of hypocrisy as the political critic in the BU crowd or are you going to throw your political hat of support in the SB or UPP ring?

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  • millertheanunnaki

    If you have been reading my contributions to BU , you would have noted I have always suggested the third parties should come together.

    You and others make their points on BU and I do not call them” hypocrites” because they have not indicated if they would throw their hat in the ring. It is common knowledge that I did that over twenty five years ago. I wrote of the BLPDLP since 1978 or there abouts !

    Anybody who knows me , would tell you that I am not known for sitting on any fence. If I were not serious about the political future of my country, I would not be on BU engaging people and discussing political and other matters.

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  • “The challenge here is that we have several third parties vying for the one seat!” (and possibly in several constituencies)
    Hence the challenge lies within the math.
    As John alluded, and I would go further, for if one of these ‘other parties’ doesn’t separate itself from the pack, constituencies can be won with <35%.
    And a lot can happen between now and election day.

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  • millertheanunnaki

    @ William Skinner January 10, 2018 at 12:08 AM

    So which one would it be? SB or UPP?

    I am prepared to apologize for any perceived misrepresentation of your moral integrity and ‘political honesty’ (pardon the paradox) if you were to say which third party you will be supporting to form the nucleus of your anti-BDLP movement.

    You might just be surprised to find out how many people on BU would follow suit.
    Even the nihilistically-inclined Bushie would finally display his true ‘yellow’ colour and ‘man-up’ to be a keen backer of S B ‘lorded over’ by G P Mark 2; a politically reincarnated David Thompson promising to be the political Joan of Arc for Barbados by bringing economic management heaven to socially hellish Barbados.

    As it stands none of the third parties in their current stand-alone incarnation stand a ghost of a chance of electoral success under the ‘first-pass-the-post’ system. Your experience in the political devil taking the electoral hindmost should clearly support this contention.

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  • The ‘maths’ of NorthernObserver is correct. The time is ripe for the B’s & D’s to realise they are not the only game in town. Unfortunately, we have no (apologies) ‘Trump’-like option on the horizon & the multitude of third-parties will divide-up the votes they need to overcome the die-hard B & D voters.

    How can you bring a party, as an option to run our country, & demand that the candidate be a ‘business-person’ with x years of experience, etc….. a joke! Are you not being ridiculous in saying to us that only business-persons got a brain? There are probably more FAILED business-persons, than there are successful ones laying around, & some in the very party!

    A proper mix of candidates with varied backgrounds would make more sense …… not a re-hash of failed politicians & so-called business persons!

    Give me a better 3rd choice & you have my vote …… I am fed-up with the traditional B & D politician!!!

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  • We should not and cannot merely vote for a third party for its own sake
    Let them offer a clear right to recall, or something

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  • Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service

    Yep…

    ..just voting in new people who are equally as brainwashed and mentally powerless as the same old nuisances ya had in parliament for the last 51 years will only gain you the same old patterns of backward, incompetent nonsense tinged and embroidered with the same useless colonial slavishness.

    Let the new parties prove they got something to offer…as things stand they dont, let them work to be elected. …this is their opportunity to prove how they will remove the colonial yoke and quagmire around their necks and act like real intelligent black leaders.

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  • What you mentioned about Lynette Eastmond is true….. however, she is a “distinct exception” in a crowd of approximately 90 individuals that make up the known “third parties.”

    And presenting her as one example….. is insufficient evidence to debunk my opinion that the disgruntled former members of the BLP (or DLP) often take with them into the new parties, their “baggage” and the attitudes they exhibited when they were members of their former parties.

    Case in point…….UPP members David Gill, Wendell Callender, Hudson Griffith, and Herman Lowe. As I have previously mentioned, rather than use this new opportunity to “turn a new page” and articulate their plans for the constituencies they are seeking to represent, they continue to harp about their perceived unjust treatment in the BLP.

    Hudson Griffith was a former BLP candidate who contested the 2011 St. John by-election and 2013 general elections against the DLP’s Mara Thompson. In 2011, he polled 553 votes to Thompson’s 4,613…….. losing by a margin of 4,060 votes. In 2013, Griffith gained 1,091 votes to Thompson’s 4,025, this time losing by 2,934 votes. On October 23, 2016 Hudson Griffith withdrew his nomination to be the BLP’s candidate for St. John.

    Herman Lowe contested the 2003 general elections as the DLP St. Michael North East candidate. He lost to Mia Mottley by 2,786 votes (Mottley = 3,724 – Lowe = 938). Lowe also contested the 2013 general elections as an independent candidate for St. Michael West Central and only managed to “solicit” 36 votes.

    I am not criticizing any individual’s right of freedom of association regardless of past his/her associations. My point is (and remains)…… the UPP has embraced former disgruntled DLP/BLP members that continue to exhibit the same attitudes they exhibited while members of their former parties, which perhaps made them less appealing to the electorate…….. hence, their heavy defeats at the polls.

    As such, I believe by “repackaging” these guys who have not made any significant changes in their attitudes……. from red or yellow….. to orange, the UPP will experience some difficulty “selling” them to the electorate.

    I was in discussion with some of Lynette’s campaigners and supporters and told them I was disappointed the UPP embraced Gill and Callender………. they shared my view as well.

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  • David January 9, 2018 at 11:13 PM #
    The challenge here is that we have several third parties vying for the one seat!
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Wheat and chaff … just need some wheat!!

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  • Miller
    You could have also said that so-called third parties are nothing more than BLP/DLP rejects. That’s a real problem.
    BLP/DIP in drag.

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  • David January 9, 2018 at 11:33 PM #
    You need to reread what was written. As an example, in the opinion of the blogmaster pound for pound Lynette Eastmond is a better candidate than 70% of what is on offer by either party. She has demonstrated by her contributions to ministerial portfolios as a BLP member and before that in international business, she has what it takes to make a solid contribution. Because she has not demonstrated the charisma or campaign platform craft to win voter hearts and minds to date does not make her a failure or prevents her from trying again

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Hilary Clinton was the most qualified candidate to be president …… look where that got her!!

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  • Agree that of all the third party or independent prospective candidates Lynette Eastmond by her stellar performance in the BLP government,in particular Shiprider,is a cut above the rest but……she appears incapable of winning a seat in a first past the post scenario,therefore the Senate is where,like Maxine,she can make her contribution.

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  • Well Well & Cut N' Paste At Your Service

    Just to compound why the present ministers are not even an option to be reelected…in case some have forgotten.

    Michael Lashley was singing the praises of this Trini consultant he is giving away taxpayers money to over 20 thousand dollars every month claiming the dude sucking money for making a few calls to US….has worked miracles to restore the buses of the transport board, all of this about 3 months ago…..yet here is Lashley in Florida just 2 days ago in a photo shoot with his sidekick Pandor telling the Florida newspapers and the world….:..that…..

    “The Barbadian transportation system has come under fire from government officials who complained about equipment failures and the quality of buses.

    Earlier this year, Cynthia Forde, a member of Parliament, was quoted in published reports about the service.

    “There are buses breaking down, buses and minibuses running out of diesel, un-roadworthy buses, minibuses without seats and more. We had a reliable service until around 2013 or 2014,” Forde said”

    Now why should anyone reelect such a liar and obvious crook, did they tell taxpayers they eere wasting their money taking an entourage to Florida when only 2 people would to, a waste of tax dollars again,

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  • @William,

    You are right to bang on bout the lack of proper opposition to the current political parties, although I believe your words will fall on deaf ears.
    I have said before, and repeat, our problem – a deep cultural problem – is that we prefer the comfort of personalities and abuse than of discussing ideas and policies.
    With no moorings in morality ideology, religion or even common decency, these badly educated political activists and their keyboard terrorists and plain old solipsists, who shadowed by their career and social failure, prowl the blogs looking to pounce on anyone who they perceive to have alternative – or, perish the thought, better – or are otherwise vulnerable.
    And, using the mask of anonymity, they can still go to church, or to their clubs and local rumshops, smiling and masquerading as proud, law-abiding family people, upstanding members of their local communities.
    @William, I know we do not see eye to eye on the decay of Barbados as a society, but we re in the lasts chance saloon.
    We cannot even clean human mess from our streets, in some of our most important commercial districts; we have s chaotic national insurance scheme is badly in need of reform, but more urgently in need of good management; a scheme whose triennial actuarial report is already a month late – following the previous one which was three years late.
    Yet, not a single person has resigned or lost his or her job; worse, our attention deficit media and blogs have moved on from discussing the incompetence and appalling ignorance that heads the NIS.
    @William, we need an open and frank public debate by the various political parties, not the obscene silence of the BLP, the juvenile nonsense of the UPP and the top-down proposals from Solutions Barbados.
    We want a mature debate and not just posturing.

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  • “@William, we need an open and frank public debate by the various political parties, not the obscene silence of the BLP, the juvenile nonsense of the UPP and the top-down proposals from Solutions Barbados.
    We want a mature debate and not just posturing.”

    A mature debate about politics and political parties in Barbados is definitely lacking from the discussion.

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  • @ Hal
    Your points are accepted. We have seen the BLP bounce back from 3 seats and the
    DLP bounce back from 2 seats. They
    only survived because there was no real
    Opposition to them. We need new voiced
    and ideas in order to confront the decay
    of which you speak.
    I have long ignored those whose only
    response to differences is imbecile
    attacks and puerile mouthings.
    There is widespread disappointment
    in both the BLP and DLP. That is why
    they followers have to resort to worn
    out positions and personal attacks.That is
    what they have been fed on . Garbage in,
    Garbage out.

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  • @ Artax
    Kindly read the posts carefully. This is the
    second time during this thread that you
    are attributing statements to me that I
    did not make. In this case it is Hal who you
    are quoting but attributing the post to me.
    Earlier it was David’s statements you
    attributed to me.
    Please note . Thanks.

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  • If one is to understand William one would think Grantley Adams is still the head of the Labour Party.In both the DLP and the BLP there has been a continuous replenishment of the pool of available talent.New entrants bring new ideas.William continues to suffer the effect of his monumental loss in 1991 and has become bitter and sour in his political views.If William says so it is so.Well,not for me.I can think for myself and so can most Bajans even if they continue to vote D which would be saying a lot about what they think of Stuart,by far the worst candidate for PM.No wonder the bright sparks like Estwick refuse to stand up and be counted.

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  • @William,

    I think Gabriel has got it in for you. Forget him. It is what I call the Bajan condition.

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  • The third parties have posted manifestos/information on their websites which include departure from the norm. All they are able to do is promise, like B, like D. The issue is that it does not matter what a so-called third party promises the duopoly mindset is real.

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  • @ David,

    Bajans are used to getting ” rewarded ” during election season.

    Money talks and shit walks (sorry…flows on the street in Hastings ).

    Hope the 3rd parties have big budgets to buy rum and cornbeef an biscuits an steak an brandy

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  • Waiting to see cell phone videos of vote “purchases”.

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  • January 10, 1999 “FORMER Prime Minister Erskine Sandiford has hinted that politicians might be bribing voters with money.”

    http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/118544/previously-politics-sandi-warns-about-bribery

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  • Any examples of a 300,000 population with more than two thriving political parties? America and the UK with much larger populations–two parties dominate. What factors are necessary for more than 2 parties to flourish? Certainly, heterogeneity must be one and Barbados being very small and homogeneous makes it extremely difficult, especially when the other parties are unconvincing. I am waiting for the 3rd-party brigade to tell us what earth shattering policies any of the non-duopoly has put forward. As stale as IL is, the BLP has drafted a bill and made it available for public comment–the consultative, “transparent” approach BU intelligentsia has been demanding. But like I said on another thread, nuff ah wunna knew everything leading up to the 2008 election. The dearly departed yella skin menace was declared the 2nd coming, buttressed by a PR campaign of smoke and mirrors, and Bajans puffed and enjoyed their reflections. Now 10 years later we are worse off; yet the same shallow, Alice in Wonderland, void of context thinking is being promoted. One would think that after the last 10 calamitous years, there would be greater appreciation for the seriousness of government and governance. Shite floating on the South Coast, but a self-proclaimed policy guru championing the election of a party simply because they are new.

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  • Sunshine Sunny Shine

    William Skinner

    Ignore the shites like Gabriel, who seems to want a continuation of swapping between corrupt and self-first parties of the idiocy of Fruendel Stuart or the want to come good stinking crooked BLP party under Mottley.

    TIME TO EMBRACE THE THIRD PARTIES.
    VOTE SOLUTIONS PARTY. THERE IS NO WRONG IF YOU THINK YOU RIGHT

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  • William Skinner January 10, 2018 at 9:29 AM #

    “@ Artax: Kindly read the posts carefully. This is the second time during this thread that you are attributing statements to me that I did not make.”

    @ William Skinner

    Perhaps YOU should READ the POSTS CAREFULLY, because I NEVER ATTRIBUTED to you any statements you did not make.

    Firstly, it seems as though YOU DID NOT READ Hal Austin’s January 10, 2018 8:58 AM contribution, because if you had, you would have NOTICED the LAST PARAGRAPH of the contribution as follows (and you would not have written your 9:29 AM “warning”):

    “@William, we need an open and frank public debate by the various political parties, not the obscene silence of the BLP, the juvenile nonsense of the UPP and the top-down proposals from Solutions Barbados.
    We want a mature debate and not just posturing.”

    CLEARLY, my January 10, 9:24 AM contribution was a response to Hal Austin’s comments (as quoted above) and NOT YOU.

    Secondly, if you are referring to my 8:25 AM contribution, it was a response to David’s January 9, 2018 11:33 PM contribution. There isn’t anything therein to SUGGEST I’m attributing statements to you.

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  • @Enuff January 10, 2018 at 12:31 PM #

    Excellent post…………could not have said it better.

    I well remember the media openly promoting the “yellow menace” as you called him……..he pulled his members out of the House and said that he was not returning until an election was called. One was called and the menace lambasted OSA for announcing the date in December.

    We have been left with the onslaught and the attendant fall out of that fawning since 2008.

    What a mess!

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  • Agree with your article 100% William Skinner . I dont know how you can have 5+ third parties but such is the asinine ignorance that pervades Barbados.Be that as it may this is my wish list for the so called third parties.

    1.Dont promise anything.
    2.Dont give away anything but stand on the merit of their words as thats all we have, to live and die by, our morning and evening word.
    3.Desist from seeking to ridicule other so called third parties in the public domain despite ideological differences.
    4.Accept defeat as a stepping stone to grow ideas into demonstrable projects for the next election,to prove what you say works.Accept any victories as a conviction of more work to be done and not laurels to be rested on and certainly not to join the B D establishment.

    I personally do not believe so called third parties will win the election as gross political immaturity has been bred into us and likewise over time it must be bred out.Staying the course I wish them well.50 years is alot of damage to undo.

    Like

  • William Skinner you continue with this third party rubbish ,tell me what any of them has brought to the table to convince anyone to vote for them.You wish people to vote 3rd party for voting sake so that like the current party they will try a thing and see how it works.In 2008 The king of half truths heralded dy people on this forum like Bush Tea,Pacha,Adrian Hinds,CCC and othersduped people into time for change bullshit and look where we are today.Bajans do not want a repeat of that.There fore the two main parties it is and I know which one I am going with so reel and come again.

    Like

  • Here are the websites of the 3 main third parties:-

    The info contained compares with anything the BLP and DLP have posted.

    Like

  • millertheanunnaki

    @ SuckaBubby January 10, 2018 at 4:06 PM.
    “Desist from seeking to ridicule other so called third parties in the public domain despite ideological differences.”

    Therein is where the major challenge lies. There is no ideology to divide these johnnies-come-lately “third” parties from the other already established parties.

    There is one common thread running right through this lot of disgruntled losers and political jokers and neophytes. And that is to try their hate-filled best to stop the return of the BLP to power under the leadership of MAM.

    The leaders of these groupings of convenience behave as if the BLP has been in power for the past 10 years by constantly harping back to a period which covered the OSA leadership to find the source of all the problems besetting Barbados today.

    These so-called third parties could as well come together under one political umbrella as a temporary vehicle of convenience aptly titled ‘The Anti-MAM Brigade.

    The leaders of the so-called party could as well bite their rebellious tongue and join forces with the DLP in their guerilla war against the BLP.

    At least they will be honest with themselves in any attempt to meet your exceedingly high bars of altruism and political standards.

    What about working within the existing two-party system to bring about the changes you and the newly formed third party mavericks believe are necessary?
    Barbados is really to small in every sense to accommodate these political flies up the nostrils of the already firmly entrenched two-horse race so vividly described by FJS.

    Hell will freeze over and snow fall in sunny Worthing to freeze the runny sewage before any third party in their present formation can make any meaningful electoral dent on the well entrenched two-party system in Barbados with its politically-undulating landscape.

    “A house divided against itself cannot stand”!

    Like

  • “The third parties have posted manifestos/information on their websites which include departure from the norm. All they are able to do is promise, like B, like D. The issue is that it does not matter what a so-called third party promises the duopoly mindset is real.”

    The definition of duopoly cannot be confined to party alone but must be broadened to include personalities.

    Like

  • Well Well @ Cut and Paste @ Your Service

    as long as the ministers, opposition and 3rd parties are all preaching from the same fantasy bible and colonial template, there will be no worthwhile changes to benefit the majority population….read taxpaying voters…..not in this remaining century.

    none of the leaders and wannabe leaders are awake. still 2 or 3 generations to go….read 50-75 years…..for black leaders to wake up, at least 40 percent of the majority population are wide awake, still a little more time to go…for everyone else.

    Like

  • David

    This is what you want Bajans to vote for in 2018? Fantasy?

    “To address the lack of civility in parliament, the parliamentary privilege that allows politicians in parliament to defame individuals without consequences will be abolished. Parliament should be the place where exemplary debates and discussions are held. To reduce the risk of current parliamentary defamation, the relevant law and penalties will be applied retroactively, from 1 July 2015.”

    “To address political victimization, civil servants will not be allowed to join political parties, and any proven case of political victimization, by any civil servant, will result in the offender’s immediate dismissal, and forfeiture of their pension. This should protect civil servants from being victimized if the government is forced to lay-off staff. It should also protect any person, regardless of political affiliation, when they try to obtain government services. However, this policy would need to be agreed with their respective Unions. To reduce the risk of current political victimization, the relevant law and penalties will be applied retroactively, from 1 July 2015.”

    “To address the unwillingness of the Opposition to work with Government in proposing solutions given their concern of a snap election, the Prime Minister must call an election one year in advance.”

    “To address the problem of nurses and teachers who no longer passionately care, and feel trapped in an unfulfilling job, counselling followed by either promotion (for qualified persons), early retirement with full pension (for older persons), or educational grants for an alternative career (for younger persons), will be provided. Barbados depends on the continual influx of nurses and teachers who genuinely and passionately care.”

    Like

  • “..“A house divided against itself cannot stand”!
    You are referring to the BLP?

    Like

  • millertheanunnaki January 10, 2018 at 5:16 PM #

    “Therein is where the major challenge lies. There is no ideology to divide these johnnies-come-lately “third” parties from the other already established parties.”

    “There is one common thread running right through this lot of disgruntled losers and political jokers and neophytes. And that is to try their hate-filled best to stop the return of the BLP to power under the leadership of MAM.”

    Points taken but every party in it to win at trying to stop a BLP government.

    UPP – The creative economy
    PDC – No Taxation
    Solutions – ISO 9001
    BIM – Anti-corruption.

    I am not going to debate their practicality.

    “What about working within the existing two-party system to bring about the changes you and the newly formed third party mavericks believe are necessary?”

    Noble but untenable.Not wise to fight the opposing forces in the middle of a river, either let them cross to you or leave them alone.

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington

    Where as I agree that there is a high level of dissatisfaction with the current level of politics, the electorate really has a choice between the BLP and the DLP.
    At this late stage the other parties have not made any significant impression on the voters/electors.
    Two things politically motivate Barbadians charismatic leaders and an impactful social program. Despite their attempts at innovation the new parties have not captured the imagination of the electorate.

    As I have said several times before the probability of the new players influencing politics in this country is greater if they joined either of the established two parties. Barbados is too small for multiple parties. What do they know that other world democracies do not know?

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington

    I am assuming that these third parties are serious. But as one other contributor averred: “Is there a conspiracy?”

    Like

  • Enuff

    The General Orders for the Public Service already puts restrictions on public officers. If memory serves me correctly, General Order 3.18.1 provides that they are expressly forbidden to participate actively in politics. The post independence General Orders were made by Barrow in 1970 and that provision was there. Sorry to tell you, if you have not already come to the conclusion, that no one obeys rules in Barbados anymore.

    Like

  • @Caswell

    Yes Caswell, but what does actively participate mean–membership? Tell Grenville and Solutions!

    Like

  • Many people are hoping that OSA (aka Tacitus) will form a party and lead the country again. Barbados needs an economist at its helm at this juncture – not any more lawyers or tinkering techies!!

    Like

  • The blogmaster spotted Arthur last week, he could hardly walk. He was like a boy wearing tight shoes.

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington

    @ David at 7:42 PM

    Did I not read in the print media that OSA was assisting his predecessor at a recent national function? Do you see how ungracious we are to the political class? Grenville 11, please take note.

    Like

  • @ David,

    google ” owen Arthur ”

    can’t believe the photo.

    Like

  • @ Hants

    You mean the phot0 of Arthur with a 26oz Johnnie Walker black label whisky “superimposed” on the side of his mouth?

    Hahahahahahahahaha…

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington

    Et tu, Artaxe? Wuh loss!!

    Like

  • Let google be your friend.

    Like

  • Falernum January 10, 2018 at 7:28 PM #

    What unique policy contributions or value did Arthur bring to the table as a trained economist? Plse list them. I go further, plse include detailed speeches.

    Like

  • Let's Not Remember the FAILED DLP

    Owen just waiting to spring into action when called by the UPP to come and lead them. Who is funding the UPP…………………is it Tempro, is Maloney or is it Harris. Its a expensive gamble but just imagine the benefits if you ‘own’ a political party and it becomes the Government?

    Like

  • “What unique policy contributions or value did Arthur bring to the table as a trained economist?”

    What a silly question.

    Like

  • Artax January 11, 2018 at 10:54 AM #

    Is that the answer?

    Like

  • @ Hal Austin

    Okay…… let me be specific….

    Your question re: “What unique policy contributions or value did Arthur bring to the table as a trained economist?”…..

    …….is a STUPID question…….. especially coming from someone who often states in this forum that he does not have any regard for “old school” economics, economists…….. and more so, Owen Arthur.

    Under these circumstances, what bench marks would you use to give a fair, balanced and unbiased evaluation of “Falernum’s” answer……….. if it favours Arthur?

    Like

  • Artax January 11, 2018 at 12:41 PM #

    It means we can debate ideas and not make assumptions. Unless that is off the table?

    Like

  • “It means we can debate ideas and not make assumptions. Unless that is off the table?”
    ++++++++++

    Assumptions?????…………… It seems as though you forget what you post to this forum.

    You have often expressed the view that, as trained economist, Owen Arthur’s policies did more harm to the Barbados economy than good.

    However, you have never presented any information or a critical analysis of his policies to substantiate that claim, which would obviously “open the floor” for a debate.

    Perhaps you should begin the debate by listing Arthur’s economic policies and give detail explanations why you believe they failed to achieve the desired objectives or were inadequate for economic circumstances at the time………

    ……..while presenting alternative policies.

    My friend……this is how “we can debate ideas and not make assumptions.”

    Liked by 1 person

  • Artax January 11, 2018 at 3:51 PM #

    However, you have never presented any information or a critical analysis of his policies to substantiate that claim, which would obviously “open the floor” for a debate. (Quote)

    I have said that the sale of the state-controlled bank and insurance company has done more to undermine the financial sector in Barbados than any single act by any post-independence government. I stand by that view and have argued it. It is conventional financial economics.
    The financialisation of the economy is the key engine for growth; instead it triggered our going cap in hand begging – for regional development banks to the Chinese. All that can be laid at the door of Mr Arthur.
    That aside, during Mr Arthur’s 14 years as prime minister and minister of finance, he did nothing radical to transform the economy of Barbados, apart from accumulating massive debt.

    Perhaps you should begin the debate by listing Arthur’s economic policies and give detail explanations why you believe they failed to achieve the desired objectives or were inadequate for economic circumstances at the time………(Quote)

    I am prepared to debate the issues, but what are his policies? Politics aside, what are his economic ideas? Has he got a grand theory of development economics?
    That is why I have said here on a number of occasions that his time would be better spent writing about his years in government and setting out a blueprint for the future of the nation. He is in a unique position to do so and his contribution to our nation’s history will be even more invaluable.
    It means we will not be here now arguing in an intellectual vacuum.

    Like

  • It seems as though you embrace “conventional economics” when it suits your purpose.

    Could you please explain how “the sale of the state-controlled bank and insurance company has done more to undermine the financial sector in Barbados?

    Like

  • millertheanunnaki

    @ Hal Austin January 11, 2018 at 4:16 PM
    “I have said that the sale of the state-controlled bank and insurance company has done more to undermine the financial sector in Barbados than any single act by any post-independence government. I stand by that view and have argued it. It is conventional financial economics.”

    Are you still prepared to stick to your “I am NO Socialist position” after writing the above?

    We wait to read what “govt45” has to say about your anti-capitalist position embedded therein.

    Like

  • Artax January 11, 2018 at 4:37 PM #

    Could you please explain how “the sale of the state-controlled bank and insurance company has done more to undermine the financial sector in Barbados? (Quote)

    The financialisation of the economy is the key engine for growth; instead it triggered our going cap in hand begging – from regional development banks to the Chinese. All that can be laid at the door of Mr Arthur.

    Are you sure you work in finance? Is it as an economist, accountant, account’s clerk or book keeper? Do you understand financial economics? Or is this just an argument for argument’s sake?

    Like

  • Hal Austin January 11, 2018 at 5:02 PM #

    “Are you sure you work in finance? Is it as an economist, accountant, account’s clerk or book keeper? Do you understand financial economics? Or is this just an argument for argument’s sake?”
    ++++++++++++

    You like to throw out “fancy terms and policies,” which are often ACCOMPANIED by VAGUE or BROAD explanations…in an attempt to impress upon some in this forum that you have a vast knowledge of economic and financial issues. And you do this without taking into consideration the different economic variables that may exist between Barbados and the countries you allude to.

    Unfortunately, when challenged, you always behave IMMATURELY by RESORTING to PETTY, CHILDISH INSULTS, as INDICATED by your ABOVE comments……. which are silly. This is the MAIN REASON why I (and many others in this forum) don’t like “debating” with you.
    You have a CHILDISH HABIT of DENIGRATING certain professions and I’m forced to remind you there are bookkeepers and accounts clerks that possess BSc in Accounting & Economics or professional accounting designations.

    However, by mentioning: “The financialisation of the economy is the key engine for growth; instead it triggered our going cap in hand begging – from regional development banks to the Chinese. All that can be laid at the door of Mr. Arthur.”…..

    ………. is just your SHIITE OPINION and does not explain the role of a state-owned bank in facilitating financialisation. And you know that this is just another one of your shiite arguments to INFLAME your DISLIKE of Arthur.

    Essentially you CONVENIENTLY chose to IGNORE the topic re state-owned banks and insurance companies to focus on what you believe to be your “strong point”……. “financialisation.” Since you raise the issue… I will accommodate you.

    Barbados does not need a state-owned bank to facilitate the process of “financializing the economy” as proven by countries that do not own banks or insurance companies.

    You could have explained the fact that some economists and policy makers show some unwillingness to confront the central problems created by “financialization of the economy,” such as speculative and excessively liquid financial flows that create debt-laden balance sheets, short-term perspectives, including exchange rates and unstable economic growth.

    You could have discussed, for example, the spread of financialization to emerging markets and its relationship with economic crises.

    Or discuss the argument expressed by some experts that “financialization in conjunction with neoliberalism and globalization has had a significantly negative impact on the prospects for economic prosperity.” It is a widely held view that a combination of financialization, liberalization and globalization impacted negatively on the Argentine economy.

    This is how MATURE people debate or explain issues………… and they also SHARE IDEAS.

    Instead, you prefer to act IMMATURELY and become very INSULTING when challenged. You need to change this attitude.

    Why do you think people are of the opinion you’re an ARROGANT, SARCASTIC, OBNOXIOUS SNOB?

    Like

  • Have you analyzed the pros and cons of Barbados owning a bank? Have you considered the political perspective of government participating in finance with a view of controlling private sector investment for political and not social reasons?

    Imagine BNB using savings and current accounts to lend to Bizzy Williams $17M, as was done with NIS funds, and when the loan becomes due, he asks for more time to repay.

    Similarly to how this administration has been “raping” the NIS fund for their political advantage, a state-owned bank could be similarly used by politicians to acquire control of private sector firms, provide employment or other benefits to yard-fowls, who ultimately return the favour by votes, financing political campaigns or bribes.

    And this example could be a reality because, as you are aware, financial regulation in Barbados is poor, there is enough evidence to suggest state-owned entities are inefficient, then we must consider the underlying political motives behind providing public services……and government does not have to compete with the private sector to source finance.

    Additionally, since Barbados is a small economy, have you thought about the implications of government using money from household and firms to finance capital projects, especially in the current circumstances where the Central Bank relinquished it control of determining interest rates?

    Surely it would be unfair competition for a state-owned bank to pay higher interest rate than competitors.

    There are also other considerations that favour state-owned banks.

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington

    @ Artax at at 6 :49 PM and 7 :12 PM

    I concur with the positions you expressed there in. But could dear , you did not have to be so heavy handed. I believe Hal was seeking to change his view of Mr Arthur’s excellent handling of the economy in his fifteen years as minister of finance.

    Like

  • @ Bernard

    It should be clear to you and Artax and everyone who visit BU that Hal Austin is a fraud. He may have written a few magazine columns unchallenged by readers.

    However, BU is a different story. There are some very intelligent people here that would question the mighty Hal…..and he hates that.

    Hal Austin is a half baked journalist that lacks basic comprehension skills. After all the talk about financialisation he ran from the discussion.
    What a moron.

    Like

  • However, by mentioning: “The financialisation of the economy is the key engine for growth; instead it triggered our going cap in hand begging – from regional development banks to the Chinese. All that can be laid at the door of Mr. Arthur.”…..(Quote)

    Barbados does not need a state-owned bank to facilitate the process of “financializing the economy” as proven by countries that do not own banks or insurance companies. (Quote)

    Dealing with the last first: Barbados does not need a state-controlled bank, but in the absence of alternatives it is imperative that the state steps in to fill the void.
    The role of banks (and shadow banks) in the economy is to provide lending; increasingly in Western liberal economies, most of this lending is to small and medium enterprises, which provide the bulk of job creation.
    People in jobs send money o a variety of things, allowing shops and stores to improve their stock, create jobs and expand. It also increases the tax take, allowing the government to provide more services for the community as a whole.
    In more sophisticated societies, the shadow banks step in, also insurance companies want to invest the vast amounts of premiums collected; venture capitalists want to invest; charities and family funds, occupational pension funds also want to invest.
    In a carefully shaped financial environment there will also be retail investment products which need to invest, etc. This is what a Barbados-domiciled bank can assist in doing.

    You could have discussed, for example, the spread of financialization to emerging markets and its relationship with economic crises.(Quote)

    Financialisation has had its problems, but overall it has been for the good. Barbados has underperformed the global and regional economies since independence, and in particular since 2008. The problem therefore must be the local management of the economy, and not external. How do we explain this?
    On a micro level, just look at the poor investment performance of the NIS; ignore the politics and the poor scheme design.
    But the NIS is reflective of the rest of the economy in its poor management and vision (and the lack of integrity on the art of its leaders).
    Here is another example: the crisis in Barbados is not only jobs, but also housing. Since 1870, the average real return on wealth has been abut 6 per cent annually, compared with the 3 per cent increase in real GDP. Housing, rather than equities, provide the best returns over the long-term.
    I have written about this until I m going blue in the face: the commercial and residential development of Weymouth, for example, the call for an inheritance or death tax; and widespread condemnation of the irresponsible shift of wealth from the poor to the wealthy by the minister of finance, Chris Sinckler.
    Yet, the redistribution of wealth has never formed part of our national political conversation. This is an issue that 14 years of Arthur’s leadership and eight years of a DLP government should have confronted.
    Here is another example: in the build up to the 2007 Cricket World Cup |I wrote a letter to the Nation calling on the government to make the refurbishment of Kensingston Oval our Millennium goal by borrowing in the carry market and using that low-interest money for the project; since Sept 2008, global interest rates plunged, again which Barbados was unable to benefit from because of our bad credit history.
    Borrowing for infrastructural investment over generations is virtuous, which neither the Arthur government nor the DLP has fully understood.
    Just look at the housing in the slums of Bridgetown and a government that is prepared to borrow Bds$250m from the Chinese to refurbish Sam Lord’s Castle. This is bad economic decision-making.
    It is not just a problem with politics, the commercial sector has shown itself to be just as inept. Look at the way the Trinidadians have captured our commercial sector; look at our inability to even hold on to our only brewery.
    It may satisfy certain desire in some of you, but I cannot continue to repeat myself everyday because someone questions a view. I expect people to read and remember.
    It is not my intention wasting my time debating with people who do not even understand the basics, I have more important things to do with what little time I have left. I won’t be rude, it is not my style.
    By the way, the argument that Barbados is a small economy is a nonsense. DeLisle Worrell used to employ that excuse; it is similar to saying we do things our own way. I do not buy it.
    Finally, I do not intend insulting your occupation, but I am aware you have said in the past that you submit tax returns on behalf of clients. I therefore list a number of occupations that are involved in tax returns.

    Like

  • Yours was a very detailed response… without the use of vague explanations……..and your usual “diatribe.”

    However, by your comment re: “It may satisfy certain desire in some of you, but I cannot continue to repeat myself everyday because someone questions a view. I expect people to read and remember,”……..

    …………. you are essentially making the ASSUMPTION that many in this forum, INCLUDING me, READ your articles pertaining to the issues raised. I have never read anything written by you other than what you contribute to BU.

    I am of the belief that many articles written by journalists (and advanced by them as being factual) without the necessary research to substantiate their views, are the personal opinions of those journalists. In other words, anyone can write anything believing it to be fact, but when “tested”…… it is just another opinion.

    Like

  • Theophilius Gazerts 255

    Just had a moment of sheer brilliance. Here patting myself on the back so hard that I hurt my shoulders…
    1) DLP dog dead
    2) Third party dog dead
    3) BLP dog near dead as large numbers don’t like Mia
    4) Coup d’etat. Mia gets dumped. Rawdon Adams appointed leader. DLP dog get caught by surprise. BLP dog roars across the finish line.

    Like

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