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Jeff Cumberbatch – Chairman of the FTC and Deputy Dean, Law Faculty, UWI, Cave Hill

Last week, the first part of this column treated the submission by Sir Hilary Beckles, Vice Chancellor of the University of the West Indies, that the statue of Lord Admiral Horatio Nelson had outlived its incongruous presence in Heroes Square and that its continued presence there makes Barbados a deviant and a pariah in the community of progressive nations that oppose publicly revering persons (such as Nelson) known to have committed โ€œcrimes against humanityโ€.

In that first part, I also bemoaned the absence of a popular discourse on the Vice Chancellorโ€™s proposal, an absence that I found mystifying. In the past week, however, there has been some public reaction to the proposal, most of it predictably defensive of preservation of the status quo rather than of its alteration by one jot or tittle.

For example, in last Fridayโ€™s edition of the Barbados Advocate, a correspondent, Mr Michael Rudder, chose to pray in aid the undeniable reality of the criminally forcible mix of the races present in most if not all slave societies and to wonder โ€œif any of my African ancestors were responsible for selling any of their โ€œbrothersโ€ to those who carried on the slave tradeโ€ while he admits knowledge that the family of one Caucasian ancestor did have slaves.

He then proceeds to make the amazing rhetorical point that since we are all mixed, โ€œwhat does it matter that some ancestor was a so-called white supremacist? And he continues still rhetorically, โ€œDid your ancestor see him/herself as such? Do we see ourselves as black supremacists?

Essentially, he makes the point that we should acknowledge our history and move on and not โ€œkeep holding up the rear mirror of our pastโ€.

It is tempting to read this opinion in a sense clearly not intended by the author and to treat it as an agreement with Sir Hilaryโ€™s thesis that officially to maintain the statue of Lord Nelson in its current location is to hold up the rear view mirror of 1813 Barbados when Nelson was a hero to the existing societal structure, the identical structure that was to be the target of a slave rebellion a mere three years later, officially recognized by the elevation of one of its reputed leaders to the highest national status. Indeed, there is a bit of a paradox in having both of these men elevated to this lofty status, even if that status of one of them is now merely situational.

It is a conundrum that seems to pervade Barbadian society, where the general attitude appears to be โ€œI do not really care what they do about Lord Nelson, but he is part of our historyโ€ OR the more extreme and silly, โ€œif we move Nelson then we should remove all traces of English influence, including place names, titles and perhaps surnamesโ€ฆโ€

Veteran columnist Patrick Hoyos in his column last Sunday required โ€œsome sort of consistent rationale if Nelson should be movedโ€ although he did not spell out what would constitute such consistency or who would be the ultimate arbiter of it.

Mr Hoyos also appears to have interpreted Sir Hilaryโ€™s letter in a way different to me. He construes the following passages from the Beckles letter as indicating that Sir Hilary would not have minded Nelson remaining standing so long as he was overlooking Carlisle Bay contemplating his exploits beyond the horizonโ€ฆโ€

โ€œ The Democratic Labour Party turned it around and deepened its roots when it had the opportunity to move it to a marine park on the pier.

โ€ข The Barbados Labour Party did not wish the Right Excellent Errol Barrow at the centre of Parliament Square and placed him out of sight of the Assembly in what was a public car park. Nelson remained in the more prominent placeโ€.

Perhaps owing to my professional training, I prefer to base the gist of an opinion on the interpretation that what is stated later should generally overrule an earlier statute or decision that is inconsistent with it through the doctrine of implied repeal. I prefer to ascertain Sir Hilaryโ€™s sentiments from his final paragraphs-

โ€œThe assumption is growing, I have been informed, that the Government might rather citizens, in an act of moral civil disobedience, to take matters in their own hands, and remove the offending obstacle to democracy. This has been the case in the United States and South Africa.

Quietly, state officials could slip away and say that the people have spoken. Such alliances of active citizens and passive state have moved many societies. Barbados must move on.โ€

This most assuredly does not read as a paean to a mere relocation of the statue to me.

O Dominica!

I should wish to express my sincere best wishes for the full renaissance and recovery of the island of Dominica after its devastation by Hurricane Maria during last week. Owing to my occupation, I have come into contact with many of the people of that island whether as teachers, classmates, or most latterly students, and they have been without exception, some of the most gracious and warmest people you will ever encounter. Dominica was also the first country that I slept in outside of Barbados when as a member of the Animation Choir under the leadership of Mr Harold Rock, I sailed there by the Federal Palm, I believe, in 1968. I do not remember much of it now; except partaking of the sweet lime fruit and hazarding a taste of stewed mountain chicken.

My more recent visits unfortunately have been severely limited in duration and in free time, but I have seem the photographs of the recent destruction wrought and I weep for the country I remember.

O Dominica, the land of beauty

The land of verdant and glorious sunshineโ€ฆ


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499 responses to “The Jeff Cumberbatch Column – “…The Ball that Shot Nelson” (2)”


  1. What a load of sad, revisionary drivel. Does no-one have proper jobs any more?

  2. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    I posted this on another link this morning to educate the majority population that white supremacists , racist and neonazis are being hunted down so they can be taken out of the society….

    …..this is not the time for black people to be proud about having white racisist in their family tree, it’s time to chase the existing ones, the present day ones rekindling the practice of racism to blight the island..,,out of society.

    WANTED:

    โ€œWe are starting a reward fund to help us bring Neo-Nazis and white supremacists to justice. Since the authorities seem unable or unwilling to do this work, we will do it. We already found two people and have brought them to justice. Letโ€™s get back to work.โ€

    What never happened in 400 years, can happen in 4 secondsโ€ฆ

    Millerโ€ฆwho ever thought that racists and white supremacists would ever be hunted down like the savages and animals that they are in the US, no less, complete with financial rewards for their identities and eventually arrested, that is why we can never say never..

    This is something positive to copy and apply to small island states where a minority still feels comfortable practicing racism and other crimes against a majority population.

    โ€œGOOD NEWS!

    At almost 2am this morning we properly identified Dennis Lloyd Mothersbaugh โ€“ a lifelong white supremacist and skinhead โ€“ as the man who violently assaulted a non-violent woman in Charlottesville. This is him. We traced his criminal history back nearly 20 years. He has been convicted for violent hate crimes in Portland, Oregon and has served time for dozens of arrests and convictions in at least three different states. He has open cases right now.

    This makes him the third white supremacist we have identified. The other two, Dan Borden and Michael Ramos, have already been arrested. Now, we need make sure authorities arrest Dennis Lloyd Mothersbaugh.

    Now, we need you to contact authorities to make sure that he is properly arrested. Weโ€™ve done this before, and it worked, now we must do it again. Here are your action steps:

    Here is the information you need: His Dennis Lloyd Mothersbaugh, age 38, of North Vernon Indiana. He violently assaulted this woman in Charlottesville โ€“ wearing weighted gloves โ€“ which is a felony. He is a convicted felon โ€“ with a violent past โ€“ including hate crimes โ€“ and nearly 30 arrests around the country. โ€œ


  3. Jeff is still not acknowledging the problem of Hilary Beckles denouncing Admiral Nelson on the one hand and having a hand in the public veneration of Marcus Garvey on the other hand.

    Jeff, this is a BIG problem, and you are willfully blind and ignorant if you ignore it. Make sure to educate yourself on the details of Garveyism before trying to suggest that I am mistaken.

    And please, the correct preposition after ‘different’ is ‘from’ NOT ‘to’. Different FROM me.


  4. If I may posit another view or approach to the question. Surely the existence of statues or other memorabilia should be determined by the question of ‘what did you do for the country, what did he do, that should be held up as a mark of esteem and example, that we need to emulate going forward’?

    Anything else is not relevant.

    As for 45fascist above comment. No, it is not revisionist. It is asking ‘what have you done for me lately’.

    Nowt wrong with that. We should look forward, not back. Onward!


  5. Of course, if Nelson is left in place, surely some sort of ‘nod’ should me attached to the statue, in recognition of his manservant, whom I believe he was rather ‘fond’ of?

  6. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @45govt
    The statue of Nelson is indeed “a load of sad, revisionary drivel.” The problem is not so much the statue itself though, it is rather that contemporary White supremacists use it as a rallying point: defending its existence and pretending that altering it or removing it is somehow an attempt to change history. Removing the statue of Nelson does not change the past at all, it simply acknowledges that we still live in the middle of “history” with its ongoing challenges.

    Nelson’s statue would be much less offensive to civilized sensibilities if it were accompanied by honest interpretive signage explaining how the monument came to be there, something like:
    “This statue was erected by racists to celebrate the life of Lord Nelson, a White supremacist who used his political and military career to promote the enslavement of Black people.”


  7. Might an online digital platform be designed and developed, that would allow voters to have their opinions reliably counted when deciding ongoing matters of National importance.
    Traditional parliamentary representation based on geographical constituency appears antiquated in terms of ineffectiveness and inefficiency.
    A direct participatory democracy, consisting a TEAM of qualified professionals, operating in a transparent system and held accountable by an aware and engaged citizenry, could take the place of the Westminster system which has failed to maintain the best interests of Barbadians.


  8. David

    I too share Michael Rudder’s sentiments and would like to see his letter in full published here……is it possible.

  9. Theophilus Gazerts Avatar
    Theophilus Gazerts

    Jeff can defend himself, but the use of ‘different to’ is quite common.
    But what have we come to when we start singling out words. “Wheel” or “reel”; “from” or “to”? In both cases, I believe that those who sought to correct were incorrect.

  10. Theophilus Gazerts Avatar
    Theophilus Gazerts

    How to ensure that nothing gets done, then leave it to “citizens, in an act of moral civil disobedience, to take matters in their own hands, and remove the offending obstacle to democracy. ”

    We are men/women of words and not of action…..

  11. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    Because in reality…that is all Nelson was…

    โ€œThis statue was erected by racists to celebrate the life of Lord Nelson, a White supremacist who used his political and military career to promote the enslavement of Black people.โ€


  12. And please, the correct preposition after โ€˜differentโ€™ is โ€˜fromโ€™ NOT โ€˜toโ€™. Different FROM me.

    Different to is much more common in British English than American English:

    In this respect the Royal Academy is no different to any other major museum.
    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/usage/different-from-than-or-to

    @Chad 9×5, What do they know of English who only English know?

  13. Theophilus Gazerts Avatar
    Theophilus Gazerts

    Prior to independence and a few years afterwards who had teachers like “Captain Hutt” teaching our youngsters all about British history and nothing about Caribbean history.

    Now we have BU resident twistorian, John, telling us stories about slavery that if we were as ignorant as he supposes, we would sit and long for the good old days.

    Then we have his sycophant who would make us believe that blacks are the minority or are non-existent in Barbados. In Vincent’s and John’s Barbados some group called the Pelaus is the majority.

    A few weeks ago we had PLT exposing the “blatantly dishonest and misleading interpretive signage at the Cotton Tower Signal Station”

    Bajan history has been taught, written and is now being rewritten by whites

    When we free ourselves from mental slavery, Nelson will move; not before.


  14. Theophilus Gazerts

    is a typical West Indian.

    Which is to to say (as Terrence Farrell points out in his book on the cultural roots of economic underachievement in Trinidad), he enjoys pulling down other West Indians who are far superior to him.

    After all, to most West Indians, nobody is better than anyone else (in the contemptible vernacular, “But who he think he is?”).

    Theophilus, YOU ARE WRONG. And so is Jeff. In the context of the passage cited, the CORRECT preposition is FROM. Notice: I am not pulling Jeff down. I am correcting a mistake. You, Theophilus are being silly.


  15. Chad has a need to be noticed… He and his .45 side-piece…
    Yawn….We all have our weaknesses.

    The ONLY problem with Nelson’s Statue is the lotta shiite talk surrounding it.
    What is needed is for someone to turn up some early morning about 3.30 am – with a crane, to quietly lift it onto a truck …and tip it into the damn sea somewhere…deep

    Most Bajans would not even notice the difference next day…

    …well …of course John and Vincent would… and will go on and on and on here on BU about their usual nostalgic memories of old ..when they could lynch people like Bushie for entertainment…

    But shiite!!!
    They do that ANY damn way ….ent it?
    LOL
    ha ha ha

  16. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Chad99999
    What is Theophilus wrong about? Would you point out the sentence or phrase that you consider incorrect?

  17. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    Black bajans have to stop the white and other pretenders from rewriting their history..you can’t allow a minority population of a few thousand people to rewrite your history for their own survival and financial…at yours and your descendants expense…..not when you are a majority of 260,000….the majority population.

    No one can do it for them, they have to do it themselves….chase these demons underground if they have to…..and out of the society permanently.

    John and Vincent are malicious, mischevious and dangerous…..

    ……”45fascist” is worse than a termite, he is a cockroach hiding in the shadows…that is what bajan whites are known to do..
    …..

  18. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    “What is needed is for someone to turn up some early morning about 3.30 am โ€“ with a crane, to quietly lift it onto a truck โ€ฆand tip it into the damn sea somewhereโ€ฆdeep”

    I been saying that for years…

  19. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    you canโ€™t allow a minority population of a few thousand people to rewrite your history for their own SURVIVAL and FINANCIAL GAINโ€ฆat yours and your descendants expenseโ€ฆ..not when you are a majority of 260,000โ€ฆ.the majority population.


  20. PLT

    The dispute is about the first sentence in Jeff’s ninth paragraph.


  21. ” wheel ”

    an imaginary turning wheel symbolizing the inconstancy of fortune

    a recurring course, development, or action :cycle

    a curving or circular movement

    a rotation or turn usually about an axis or center; specifically :a turning movement of troops or ships in line in which the units preserve alignment and relative positions as they change direction

  22. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Chad99999, sorry, I thought you were disputing something else Theophilus had said other than Jeff’s prepositions


  23. Jeff

    Simple solution

    You deal in records routinely.

    You understand the need to cross check facts before labeling them facts and relying on them.

    Go to the archives and ask to look at the parochial records for the period 1800 to 1834.

    Look under H in the indices.

    See how many children were being baptized with the name Horatio or Horatio Nelson.

    See how many people were buried named Horatio or Horatio Nelson.

    Try it with N for Nelson.

    Every one without a surname will in all likelihood be a slave.

    Easy to confirm.

    Just ask for the microfilm with the original record and see if the person is classified as a slave.

    Every one you find was a living monument to Nelson!!!

    See how many “white supremacists” you find in the slave population!!

    You will be amazed!!

    You will also find that it was very common for Bajans of all colours to name their children after Horatio Nelson …. in fact, if you look on the Mormon website for the Christian name Horatio or Nelson you will find the practice in place all over the world!!

    …. and it remained so right through the 1800’s

    That’s because as I said already, Nelson was the first superstar long before we had TV or Radio … and with a longevity that lasted a long long time …… even till today judging from the attention he still receives!!

    Facts are funny things, you can forget them, you can hide them but you can’t change them!!

    They are easy to cross reference!!

    Do some slog work and see what you find!!

    Horatio Cooke, a former DLP stalwart probably got his Christian name because an ancestor of his, perhaps a slave, chose to honour Horatio Nelson by naming his or her son (actually daughters too) after Horatio Nelson.

    The name was passed from generation to generation.

    Horace I believe could be a corruption.

    How many people in your lifetime do you know called Horatio or Horace?

    Each is/was a living monument to Horatio Nelson!!

    If you look in the directory for the surname Nelson … that is another indicator of just how big a superstar he was …. and remains!!

    Perhaps we should insist that any Nelson surname be legally changed to remove all traces of our past!!


  24. Bushie

    Hmmm….like you had a conference yesterday or busy with BBE and the bush……your other boss needed you when GP was cutting its tail over CO2…..you did chemistry right…..lol

    How come you have not gone down and removed your favorite pitchfork…..as a matter of fact how come you did stop it from being built…..but typically you want to remove what your great grandfather subscribed to because he is not around…..typical cowards actions.


  25. Theophilus, YOU ARE WRONG. And so is Jeff. In the context of the passage cited, the CORRECT preposition is FROM. Notice: I am not pulling Jeff down. I am correcting a mistake. You, Theophilus are being silly.

    @ Chad, even your mistaken and incorrect view is entitled to protection under the guarantee of expression, I suppose. But you will never admit you are wrong will you? The true sign of a defective mind.
    ,

  26. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    John, here you are again with your racist appologia. Enslaved people named their children under the oppression of both the church and plantocracy. Of course they chose names calculated to try to ease the burden of this oppression. They named children after the massa himself, after the priest, after the massa’s wife… they would have named their children after the devil himself if they thought it would ease the burden of their enslaved existence by a featherweight.


  27. That should have been under “the constitutional guarantee of freedom of expression”

  28. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    John said “See how many โ€œwhite supremacistsโ€ you find in the slave population!!”
    There were many White supremacists among the enslaved population… it is the philosophical basis of the “colourism” that was and is very present among Bajans, and also key to the distinction between “house slave” and “field slave.”. You yourself are a virulent White supremacist despite the 19% of African ancestry in your genetic heritage. In the USA it was the foundation of the “Uncle Tom” character.


  29. How many people in your lifetime do you know called Horatio or Horace?
    Perhaps we should insist that any Nelson surname be legally changed to remove all traces of our past!!

    @John, you are being absurd in more ways than one. A coincidence of names at any point in time is merely that, a coincidence. How many were called Bussa after 1816? Why am I named after an American President who owned slaves and a Confederate leader who fought to retain slavery?

    Why are you named after what the Americans call a toilet or a client of a prostitute and why is one diminutive of your name what Jamaicans call a “bumbaclaat”?

  30. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    John, you used to be such a bright lad… I am still truly flabbergasted by the stupidity and weakness of your arguments here.


  31. @Gazer, is it not fair to say that most historians are essentially ‘twistorians’!

    They – generally all of serious scholarly intent – will aim for irrefutable facts by seeking an analysis of original source data wherever possible, cross-checking and all that lovely rigour …BUT when it’s all published they will undoubtedly have their ‘twist’ of those facts and figures as the tenor of that publication.

    All that to say that just as John ‘twists’ his spin of the slave history he does offer interesting facts.

    And as you noted we are now TOO aware to accept his interpretations of the data as you did at Kolig under Hutt or I did @ *** under equally minded folks.

    I can readily say that around 3rd form I started to get a different feel for the history under the guidance of a rather attractive newly minted history grad… there was a drastic change in the discussion of ‘fossils’ in my history class (LOL).

    Incidentally, back then the ‘Parry n Sherlock’ text history of the Caribbean was as good as it got…but folks like Trevor Marshall were very publicly making clarion calls about the twists and turns of ‘historical facts’.

    We need not fear the Johns of this world… unless it’s still ‘eyes wide closed’… I think not!


  32. Jeff

    Simple solution.

    Check the facts and cross reference.

    Go to the Archives and ask to see the indices of baptisms and burials for the period 1800-1834.

    Look under H.

    See how many Horatio’s or Horatio Nelsons you pick up.

    Then try N and look for Nelson.

    Those without a surname are slaves.

    Confirm by asking for the original record if you don’t believe me.

    I did the exercise already and know exactly what you will find.

    But, in case you do not have the time to check I just looked back at my notes from the work I did back in the year of Our Lord, 2000.

    I stopped after collecting 4 pages of instances of not only slaves, but Apprentice Labourers and Labourers who followed the practice.

    I went beyond 1834.

    The last one I did was in 1846, of a Labourer at Mangrove Plantation, baptized his son John Robert.

    John Robert was the son of Horatio and Judy Ann Nelson.

    You see how the Nelson surname arises in our population today!!

    Not all because there was a Nelson family … Quaker .. you would be right if you guessed that …… 1672, Julien Nelson names a Friend as George Pearce in his will.

    I stopped at 1846 because I realized how totally ridiculous the debate was.

    It is based on flawed or incomplete research, …. the premise is wrong and the time wasted and divisions it has caused are obscene.

    We got bigger problems to face than this rubbish.

    So, if it is rubbish, why even have the debate?

    Easy, promote the “half ass, lamefoot racist ideology”.

    So why is it raised once more at this time?

    It is a kite.

    Some people want to know if Bajans still so foolish and how they will react to their tax dollars being used to bail out CLICO!!

    What is the link of Professor Beckles to CLICO?

    Go to UWI and see if you can find a building with the letters CLICO emblazoned on it!!

    It’s called the CLICO Centre for Teaching Excellence.

    It is right next to the Sagicor Centre for Lifelong Learning.

    This is one place the $$$ of the 10’s of thousands Caribbean people went.

    Here is a map.

    https://www.cavehill.uwi.edu/About/resources/cavehill-campus-map.pdf

    Should we have our young persons going to a university with a monument to CLICO?

    Maybe we should demolish it!!

  33. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    PLT…that is the nasty psychology used on black Bajans, most slaves were not even related to any of these racist slave owners, even when raping black women, not many would have given birth for their rapists…

    …..so the idea that the descendants of slaves carrying the name nelson are white supremacists or racists or even related to nelson is crap…they were forced to take the names of slave masters…most of them, if not all, so no relation.

    That is the only evil the Johns, Vincents and Bizzy gotta hold on to.., telling the majority blacks that they all related to white slave masters because of their names…therefore they are allnracists and shite supremacists like their nonexistent white ancestirs….

    ….but check this…all the while in the privacy of their filthy homes,these same racusts are calling the same black population…..niggas and slaves..

    John et al and their evil has to be dismantled in Barbados…one way or the next.


  34. @ PLT
    …yuh hear that de man is sick… of mind…?
    Perhaps we need to humour him….

    Bushie suggests that we handcuff Vincent and sell his donkey to John for 20 Pounds.
    The two of them could have a ball playing ‘The good old Days’


  35. @Dee Word

    We have made the point many times on here, modern day historians recording Black history is hit or miss because the majority of the source documents express what transpired via the pen of a White man.

  36. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    Lol….Vincent is not worth more than that.


  37. โ€œThis statue was erected by racists to celebrate the life of Lord Nelson, a White supremacist who used his political and military career to promote the enslavement of Black people.โ€

    PLT

    You are absolutely correct. But we need to go much further.

    Such a signage should also be attached to the bible, the christian god and all other such symbols of oppression.

  38. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Bush Tea
    I have some (probably misplaced) compassion for John because I remember the lad of 45 years ago… however, seeing the damage that the White supremacist poison has inflicted on his mind I feel duty bound to decontaminate the forum with a dose of common sense when he tries to spread the poison around.


  39. @Jeff, oh dear… it seems your last sentence answered Sir John of Nomme-Folly quite adoitly…

    ” Why are you named after what the Americans call a toilet or a client of a prostitute and why is one diminutive of your name what Jamaicans call a โ€œbumbaclaatโ€?”

    … as has been said before you are rapier dangerous at times…

    OR to take this to the seismic time of youth — being that you are all class mates in a broad sense — John got his ‘beak brek’! ๐Ÿ˜‚

    Incidentally, @PTL: John is surely still a ‘bright lad’…. he is simply using his powerful halogen light beams to highlight the ‘dark” underside of life about which he is devotely interested.

    Anyone who saw the movie ‘A Beautiful Mind’ would appreciate that natural brilliance can withstand other powerful natural forces…and of course history is chok-a-block of ‘bright’ folks who took pathways that society found less than ideal…c’est la vie!


  40. How many were called Bussa after 1816?
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    AAAAAHHHH … now you raise it I will answer that one too!!

    Thought you would never ask.


  41. Two years before Yardbroom passed away he published an article on BU

    Here is what he claimed.

    “It is best to tell you where I am heading, before you are taken on this short journey.ย  I believe he, โ€œBussaโ€ came from the village of Bussa which is between Birni Yauri and Jessao on the Niger River.ย  Before you ask.ย  It is not simply a matter of choosing a place in Africa with the name of Bussa and supposing he came from there.ย  So a few feasible pointers are required to support my conjecture.

    It is believed a large number of African slaves who were brought to the Caribbean were Igbo or Nigerian.ย  Why was he called Bussa?ย  He could have wanted to stamp his identity by stating how he wanted to be called. . . that is my name Bussa.ย  He therefore choose as a name where he was born.ย  Africans saw themselves at the time as being from particular tribes and not just being from a large continent.”

    Here is what I said.

    John July 17, 2012 at 5:06 PM #
    Yardbroom
    I am always reluctant in doing genealogical research to make an assumption as more often than not I am proven wrong.
    Bussa is also an old English surname.
    Here is a reference to a baptism.
    https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NFC2-R5D
    Likewise Busso.
    https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JQ37-19P
    โ€ฆ and Bussoe
    https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NLVC-Q9H


  42. @John,

    Do not forget also to remind us who then held the power of nomenclature…


  43. David September 24, 2017 at 9:52 AM #

    @Dee Word

    We have made the point many times on here, modern day historians recording Black history is hit or miss because the majority of the source documents express what transpired via the pen of a White man.
    ………………………………………………………….

    Totally agree with the above which is why the Griots of Bim with their knowledge of what transpired over the centuries and passed on from one generation to the next without booklearning and knowing not to trust their rulers in a captive land is so important and invaluable.

    If you start wrong you will always end wrong.


  44. @John, you are being absurd in more ways than one. A coincidence of names at any point in time is merely that, a coincidence. How many were called Bussa after 1816? Why am I named after an American President who owned slaves and a Confederate leader who fought to retain slavery?
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    So, how would you go about proving that Bussa or Busso or Bussoe was a name of African Origins?

    Well, if you had a data set with other known African names then you could look at their distribution.

    After Professor Beckles made the claim that Bussa was an African name, such a data set became available which anyone, including a child could search.

    I knew what I would find when I went to it because I had done the work in the paper records at the Archives.

    So, let me ask you a question.

    If you searched the records from the slave returns of say 1817 for the Entire British Empire and you looked for a known African name, say Quasheba, or Quamino or Quaco or Addy, or Cudjoe wouldn’t you expect to find it distributed in all of the places in the British Empire where African Slavery was present?

    Query the names in the database of the 800,000 slaves whose names were registered.

    A child can do it.

    Then Query Busso, Bussa, Bussoe.

    There are 1260 instances of Quasheba from 1817 and they appear in Jamaica, St. Christopher, St. Vincent, Barbados, etc etc.

    http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=Wib276&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&db=BritishSlaves&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&gsfn=quasheba&gsfn_x=NN&gskw=1817&gskw_x=1&MSAV=1&uidh=ud5&gl=&gst=&hc=50&fh=50&fsk=BEGgT4gIgAAEaQAAUFw-61-

    There are 2 instances of Bussa, one in Barbados and one in Jamaica.

    http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=BritishSlaves&gss=sfs28_ms_r_db&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=bussa&gsfn_x=NN&gskw=1817&gskw_x=1&MSAV=1&uidh=ud5

    There are 15 instances of Busso, all in Barbados.

    http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=BritishSlaves&gss=sfs28_ms_r_db&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=Busso&gsfn_x=NN&gskw=1817&gskw_x=1&MSAV=1&uidh=ud5

    There are 36 instances of Bussoe, one in St. Christopher, all the rest in Barbados.

    http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=BritishSlaves&gss=sfs28_ms_r_db&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=bussoe&gsfn_x=NN&gskw=1817&gskw_x=1&MSAV=1&uidh=ud5

    Lets try Cudjoe.

    There are 2.527 instances distributed as with Quasheba all through the British Empire.

    So, what is the conclusion?

    Bussa, Busso, Bussoe is a name peculiar to Barbados, it isn’t an African name …. OR …. slaves from Bussa in Nigeria only came to Barbados.

    There is actually a Busso in 1817 on Wiltshire Plantation which is adjacent to Bayleys, a 26 year old Distiller.

    https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/1129/CSUK1817_133761-00272/3108598?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.com%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dBritishSlaves%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dbusso%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gskw%3d1817%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26uidh%3dud5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

    So maybe Bussa did not die at all nor was he a Ranger on Bayley’s plantation!!

    Go do some leg work!!

    Fortunately, you can see on the internet how many slaves were named Jefferson in 1817, ….. and 1820, 1nd 1823, and 1826 .. right through to 1834!!

    Looks like none in Barbados.

    St. Christopher, Nevis, Antigua Jamaica.

    Do you have any familial links to any of these islands that you know of?

  45. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @David
    You are completely correct that “modern day historians recording Black history is hit or miss because the majority of the source documents express what transpired via the pen of a White man.”

    However, much of what is at stake in arguments like the current one about Nelson’s statue is about White history, not Black. White supremacists aim to distort, efface, and use diversionary tactics to hide the bits of White history that they find to be embarrassing.

    You will notice that John has avoided both of the fundamental historical assertions that I made about the statue:
    a) This statue was erected by racists to celebrate the life of Lord Nelson,
    b) Lord Nelson [was] a White supremacist who used his political and military career to promote the enslavement of Black people.

    John prefers to divert the conversation into irrelevant trivia about the birth name records of enslaved people because the copious White historical record irrefutably establishes the truth of my assertions.

    Given the truths of the historical record, there are only a couple of relevant questions to be answered: should we put up signage explaining how the statue came to be in that place? should we remove the statue from that place?


  46. a) This statue was erected by racists to celebrate the life of Lord Nelson,
    b) Lord Nelson [was] a White supremacist who used his political and military career to promote the enslavement of Black people.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    a) is irrelevant. How would anyone today know what the people in 1813 thought?

    The baptism records show that it wasn’t only the subscribers who erected a memorial …. there was a profusion of living memorials erected as well …. by slaves, Apprentice Labourers and Labourers … in fact all over the world!!

    b) The answer is simple … “Thank God I have done my Duty”. You might recognize the quote.

    He was a servant of the King of England.

    “To serve my King and destroy the French” … another quote.

    Is too easy!!


  47. @Peter

    It all boils down to perspective and philosophy. The history influenced by Whites of the past is history not Black people history but history of the space we occupy. Do we let it continue to bake into our history as presented or do we tweak it to signal the prevailing thinking of the majority. It does not change the history in this case but adds to it. It is an important discussion if we as a people put importance in deepening our identity read who we are as a people.


  48. @David
    You are completely correct that โ€œmodern day historians recording Black history is hit or miss because the majority of the source documents express what transpired via the pen of a White man.โ€
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Parochial Registers record more Black History than you can imagine, both before and after slavery.

    Go and look.

    They are on the internet now … a child can look!!

    No PhD in History required.


  49. In fact, I would posit that there is no need for historians!!!

    Automation is rendering them obsolete.

    … perhaps that is too radical.

    The historians of tomorrow better make sure they know how to “work de computer”!!


  50. Jeff

    There are two presidents with Jefferson in their names.

    Here is one

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Davis

    I was assuming you meant Thomas Jefferson, the other one.

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