Est.2007

Barbados Underground

Bringing News and Opinions to the People

Response by CIBC First Caribbean International Bank to the Offer to Buy the Property of Ann Riley-Fox

← Back

Your message to the BLOGMASTER was sent

CONTACT THE BLOGMASTER ONLY

CIBC First Caribbean is one of the largest banks in Barbados
CIBC First Caribbean International Bank

The Fairness in Action Committee sent an offer to CIBC First Caribbean International to purchase the property highlighted in an earlier BU posting (see link below) from which Ann Riley-Fox was evicted.  The bank’s  attorney –Hastings Attorney-at-law – responded with this disturbing letter – see attached.

Another  letter was hand delivered to their attorney urgently requesting clarification on the following extract from the letter, “the matter had engaged the attention of the Court” which was the reason given for not accepting the offer.

The said property was advertised for sale to the public in the Nation News Paper.

See related link: Fairness in Action Committee: Save the Home of Ann Riley-Fox

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

67 responses to “Response by CIBC First Caribbean International Bank to the Offer to Buy the Property of Ann Riley-Fox”

  1. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    Leodean Worrell (formerly Chrysostom) is Randal Worrell’s wife, she herself has an iffy, shady reputation. Was Worrell the judge in this matter, if it went to court.

    The profession has become so rotten, that very few of them can be trusted.

  2. Lee Avatar
    Lee

    Why would a bank want to become a property owner? The precedent would lead to rampant property speculation and corruption. There are good reasons why even the general real estate market won’t accept an offer from a vendor. Blame the banks if you want for not making credit easily available . . . or for not closing down.

  3. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Lee
    Not necessarily the bank.
    It may just be a few well placed crooks therein….

  4. Well Well & Consequences Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences

    It is clear that they all spent quite some time conniving to get this lady’s property away from her one way or the next.

    Avoid the banks if you can, the system is rigged.

  5. lawson Avatar
    lawson

    Interesting maybe the lady still has rights and can rescue the property but it must go through her. Let the rescue fund give her a loan so she can get it back then convert it to a mortgage. The other reason may be all offers must be opened at the same time at a certain date and no one offer can be accepted unless it is for full value

  6. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Lee and BushTea, please clarify where in this matter the Bank seeks to become ” a property owner”. Nothing says that.

    Many of us would not expect to get to Ms Riley situation (too much risk, maybe) but anyone with a mortgage still due and without a bank balance or loan option to cover that outstanding value are but one catastrophe away from her predicament.

    It serves us all well to review this matter carefully.

  7. Gabriel Avatar
    Gabriel

    It is as clear as daylight what is going on here.I hope Fox has grounds for appeal all the way to the CCJ.Something appears iffy.Somebody already line up to take over.This is the type of nonsense that must end.Read Philip Nicholls book and see the role of Gale and this firm in his experience….the only thing Nicholls didn’t call Gale is not yet in the Oxford dictionary of current English.Trinidad and Jamaica are among two of the countries many of our lawyers,so called,won’t behave like this.There are serious consequences to depriving people of assets without due process.

  8. Anonymouse - TheGazer Avatar
    Anonymouse – TheGazer

    Let me leave the legal aspects to those who are well versed in law.

    Location, location, location.,.
    A few nights ago I was looking at houses for sale in Barbados. The prices were in US $ (Barbados national currency?) extremely high, and many were for sale for quite a long time. Looking at the picture of what I believe is her house, the price of BDS $700,000 seems a bit low. Then again, this may be just what is owed to the bank, or it could be location, location, location.

    Let me leave the discussion of lending of money bo those who are more knowledgeable of these matters than I am.

    But if folks were truly interested in saving the home AND had the required amount of money, then creative ways could be found to have her pay the bank their money, retain her home, but be indebted to them. this could be done by lending her the money (a second mortgage) and by having liens against the home.

    It may be just a matter of who get a good home cheap and the Riley Fox is the loser no matter what the outcome is.

  9. Anonymouse - TheGazer Avatar
    Anonymouse – TheGazer

    Creative ways could be found to have her pay the bank its money, retain her home, and be legally indebted to the benefactors. This could be done by lending her the money (a second mortgage) and by having liens placed against the home.

  10. Anonymouse - TheGazer Avatar
    Anonymouse – TheGazer

    Let me be more clear. If the action was designed to get the house back in the possession of Riley-Fox then I can follow the story; but if it is just about who is getting a good deal on a house I am not interested…

  11. BaJan boy Avatar
    BaJan boy

    Wunnah see how the white people treating we still…then wunnah say slavery done…

  12. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    @Gazer
    Creative ways could be found to have her pay the bank its money, retain her home, and be legally indebted to the benefactors. This could be done by lending her the money (a second mortgage) and by having liens placed against the home
    +++++++++
    I am not a lawyer but those choices would not improve her position, a second mortgage is used to finance other matters not to pay off the original debt, if it is used to pay off the original debt then it becomes the principal mortgage. Of course this may be what the “fairness Committee “ has in mind but considering her circumstances it wouldn’t be a mortgage but a “Deed of Gift” where they will forgive the debt.. As for liens not sure how that would work but where I live they are hard to enforce and unless you can force the property owner to sell to recover your money you are in the middle of St. Lawrence swamp in a leaky canoe without a paddle with brown stuff floating all around you.

    If the law firm says they are constrained from selling because of some legal matter, it probably means that someone has taken legal action against the Bank and they can’t dispose of the property until that has run its course.

    I don’t see any conspiracy to deprive the homeowner of her property, just lawyers following the law but then again I repeat I am not a lawyer.

  13. Hants Avatar
    Hants

  14. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    I am sorry the lady lost her home but the harsh reality is that if you miss mortgage payments you can lose your property.

    In a capitalist society expect no mercy.

    Commercial Banks are institutionalized loan sharks.
    Entrepreneurs have to deal with that reality

  15. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    “the matter had engaged the attention of the Court”….was the reason given for not ENTERTAINING the offer, not for ‘not accepting the offer’.
    This entire issue from the beginning has been full of ‘half information’.

  16. Heather Avatar
    Heather

    @ Northern Observer, it is a mere choice of words that conveys the same meaning.
    If the bank was so anxious to sell the property would it not have accepted the offer which was delivered the same day that it placed the ad in the Nation Newspaper?

  17. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    @Heather…methinks it is more than mere synonyms. My interpretation is the bank is not considering offers due to some unspecified legal intervention. Was the ad placed prior to the beginning of whatever legal action is referred to? Has the ad continued to be placed?

  18. Heather Avatar
    Heather

    @ Nothern Observer. You misunderstood. The bank publicly offered the property for sale when it was advertised in the Newspaper. Anyone can therefore make an offer to buy it.

    No ethical bank receiving an offer to purchase the property would refuse an offer.

    It is to be noted that it is the bank and not the court is selling the property.

    The court would not prevent the bank from selling the property to recover its money.

    The excuse given by CIBC is unheard of.

  19. Heather Avatar
    Heather

    On another blog someone mentioned the circumstances that led to Neville Rowe losing his business which was then sold to Bizzy Williams. So we know that something similiar has happened before.

  20. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    Imagine another party claimed to be owed money, and was seeking the courts approval. The ad is placed. That party notifies the Bank of the their actions, and seeks an injunction to prevent a sale until their matter is concluded.
    The Bank decides not to entertain offers until this other matter has cleared proceedings.

    I would agree the terse and abrupt language of the letter, is not in keeping with a reply to a party who has made an offer in good faith.

    You are suggesting they already sold the property?

  21. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    @Northern
    Your point is well taken, I never gave a thought that the property may have been encumbered by a second mortgage or another loan which could give rise to that party making a claim when they became aware of a sale.

    On another note for some people Barbados is endemic that every action is viewed with suspicion and viewed through a black/white issue; a rich/poor issue; a political issue. There was a link which showed that the Bank has also offered for sale homes that were repossessed in other islands, are these homes being sold to benefit some person(s) friendly to those corrupt people at the Bank also? If so corruption at Banks must be rife in the Caribbean and the people at its HO should be doing a wholesale replacement of its personnel.

    Lastly, we don’t know what the “Fairness Committee” offered so for someone to suggest that the Bank is bound to accept a “legitimate” offer just because it was made is logic gone amok if the offer was short of the banks requirements.

    BTW The bank also employs (or used to) a collection agency that repossess automobiles, those dastardly folks at the banks may have it in for people who own cars but are delinquent with repayments.

  22. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    “winding up an estate and dealing with trust companies and banks over a period of 21 and a half years. “f

    http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/letters_to_editor/91334/winding-estate-trial

  23. David Avatar
    David

    @Sargeant

    If there is a second mortgage it rubbishes the earlier claim by some commenters that her property was overvalued. The financial institution approving the second mortgage does so based on the equity in the property not so?

    @Northern
    Your point is well taken, I never gave a thought that the property may have been encumbered by a second mortgage or another loan which could give rise to that party making a claim when they became aware of a sale.

  24. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    The challenge is the BU threads have been dealing with ‘half information’ from the outset. There are so many various permutations and combinations of possibilities.
    And where a residential property has been used as guarantee/collateral for commercial loans, it expands those possibilities.

  25. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    @David December 12, 2016 at 11:09 AM “If there is a second mortgage it rubbishes the earlier claim by some commenters that her property was overvalued. The financial institution approving the second mortgage does so based on the equity in the property not so?”

    But a valuation of a property is not fixed. A property cold be worth $1 million today, and could be valued at $800,000 six months later if the economy declines.

  26. David Avatar
    David

    Have you known property values in Barbados to fall significantly? Do not get tie up with market value and fair market value.

  27. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    The market value of a property – any asset – is what someone is prepared to pay for it. However, the going prices for properties of a similar size and location can often be good guide.

  28. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    @David December 13, 2016 at 12:52 AM “Have you known property values in Barbados to fall significantly? ”

    Yes David.

    An inlaw currently is trying to sell a piece of land in a very desirable neigbhourhood, and was told by more than one real estate agent that if she wants it sold in any reasonable time she should 30% off the assessed BRA value.

    FACT.

  29. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    Or she could do like many Bajans and decide I won’t sell unless I get X. Then the property stays on the market for an infinite number of years, and if it is land maybe no harm is done, but if it is an untenanted house it deteriorates.

    We all know of such houses, the roofs have fallen in, the windows have been broken, the yard is over run with bush, trees are growing in the drains, termites are in the walls…

    Drive around Barbados and see for yourself.

    The marketplace (not the homeowner) determines the value of a property.

    We fool ourselves if we think otherwise.

  30. charles skeete Avatar
    charles skeete

    Very rational points Mr Sarge very rational.

  31. David Avatar
    David

    @Simple Simon

    So we have the marketvalue as determined by BRA and then we have the fair market value which is what the market is willing to bear. In the case of Barbados the two values are significant different. Property values in Barbados have been contrived or manipulated for years by the principal actors for years. There is benefit for a few to maintain high asset values.

  32. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    David,
    The BRA does not determine market value; they determine tax value by putting a value on the property for taxation purposes. The market determines the market value.

  33. David Avatar
    David

    @Hal

    Please tell us on average how many property valuations by a QS exceeds the landtax (BRA) valuation.

  34. Gabriel Avatar
    Gabriel

    Barbados had better wake up and smell the coffee.Independence is nonsense without a bigger unit of bargaining power.Britain left us poor relatively because if that country had a conscience,after 400 years of free labour,hand-me-downs and poor diet no Bajan should be without decent living conditions with all appurtenances and no local albino should have had a say in a union of these territories way back in the 19th century.So fast forward to the 21st century.Barrow say let’s have our independence,flag,song,pledge and wukup.Britain on whom we still depend first passed a law taxing our bread and butter industry.It became cheaper to travel to the Arizona, USA than to Barbados,which is much closer to the U.K.The passenger tax sent our tourism in a tail spin.Some relief came some years later.Then came Brexit.Tourism is in another tail spin because along with Brexit came a weaker pound now trading at 2.46 to the Bdos dollar.ROI on the tourist plant is creating a market of uncertainty and Barbados is no longer seen as a good investment when you add the current performance of this DLP administration and its advisers,in particular the governor of the central bank.I say we are no better off the the British Virgins or Bermuda.In fact we are now worse off since we are hearing of a pending visit from the officers of the federal reserve.

  35. Hal Austin Avatar
    Hal Austin

    David,
    I was just stating a fact: the market value is what the buyer is prepared to pay. People gazump for all kinds of reasons. BRA valuations are for tax purposes only.

  36. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    The BRA value as HA points out is the ASSESSED value. The BRA then applies a rate to this (mill rate, millage) to arrive at the tax payable. It is “nice” if the assessed value and the market value are approximate.
    The tax authority could lower the assessed value and increase the mill rate and end up with an equal amount of tax?
    As such, land/property tax is a wealth tax, not an income or consumption tax.
    Tax assessments tend to be surgical. The assessed value is relative to lot size, type and size of construction age etc not to the ‘current condition’ or ‘improvements’ which affects market value.

  37. David Avatar
    David

    @Hal

    Your definitions are taken as correct, it does not explain though why the QA’s valuation is almost always 10 or 20% above BRA’s assessment.

  38. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    There are ” Valuers” in Barbados.

    http://www.beavainc.com/AgtSearch?classification=valuer

  39. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    @David
    it doesn’t make any difference?
    The BRA’s value is assessed value for tax calculations not market value. Nowhere I know of is the assessed value relevant to the market value. Other than hopefully properties with a higher assessment will be more valuable than those of a lower assessment.

  40. David Avatar
    David

    @NO

    The substantive point is that there is a manipulation of property value in Barbados by the actors with the BRA assessment used as a variable. We can agree to disagree.

  41. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @David, you have made an interesting interpretation of property tax assessed values and that from a QA done for purposes of sale of the property. The gentlemen above are of course accurate that the market-value is a marriage of what someone is willing to play, prices for similar properties in the area and too as we all know the location.

    But I find your comments interesting as I am unaware of any locale where folks desire the taxable value to ‘fully’ reflect the market value unless it’s town/county executives who want to reassess an area which has benefited from a significant re-valuation (can be myriad reasons).

    But even in those cases as noted by Northern a change in the tax rate can be effective also.

    Thus a fellow would be completely discommoded if his tax valuation of $250K was reflective of the market valuation which is north of twice that.

    That market rate may be in line with some recent purchases/sales in the surrounding area of equitable size etc but will someone definitely want to pay that higher value for that other property…that is always the big concern.

    So this is always an inexact science. When the tax office reassess the property value to the higher value after the purchase then the owner can’t complain but unfortunately the neighbor next door really doesn’t want to get saddled with a ballooning tax base on the property in which they have lived for 50 or 60 years….but they do.

    One quickly understands the broader context of the term ‘gentrification’ and all it’s attendant ills in those type cases.

    @Simple your 3:44 and 3:50 are perplexing to say the least. Isn’t the 3:44 the function of any sale? It is only completed when there is nexus between the parties and particularly with property that agreement will turn on price. So of course you always ask for 100 and expect to settle for 70 or 65 for a quicker sale….because 70 adequately satisfies your needs

    I would suggest that the majority of the cases at your 3:50 are caused by other key factors other than ‘too high price’. A sampling: family squabbles leading to lack of agreed value as everyone involved wants a mobaton of money; the seller becomes indifferent; property is owned by relative off-island and spitefully refuses to facilitate their local relatives…

  42. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    The substantive point is that…… there is a manipulation of property value in Barbados by the actors with the BRA assessment used as a variable. We can agree to disagree.

    You lost me. The actors? These are the real estate agents/valuers? They arrive at an estimated market value by taking the assessed value for taxation and adding/multiplying by a factor?

    And what significance is this? That financing operations accept these valuations carte blanche as accurate? Hence property owners are over mortgaged.

  43. David Avatar
    David

    @NO

    Now we are getting some where.

    Imagine the contraction in asset values and more scary for the FIs (a few) asset realisation. The subject of another debate.

  44. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @NorthernObserver re “And what significance is this? That financing operations accept these valuations carte blanche as accurate? Hence property owners are over mortgaged.”

    And you have certainly lost me with that.

    How can you boldly state “… These are the real estate agents/valuers? They arrive at an estimated market value by taking the assessed value for taxation and adding/multiplying by a factor?” and previously speak of values based on other properties (sold) and make such an assertion!

    Asset values on anything is a function of supply and demand and some ‘economic’ value that those who buy and sell those assets (the market makers) affix to same. That is a simple layman’s comment. I am not trying to quote any economic jargon or such.

    When a Brit waltzes into Bdos and pays some astronomical millions for a property on the coast that previously had a nice comfortable chattel house and was assessed at $250K or some such is that ‘over-leveraged’ purchase the fault of the financing operations?

    The local property owners are no more over-mortgaged than any other risk takers who are flying high with thriving businesses or a high-flying career and gets brought to earth abruptly and unexpectedly and then can’t service his/her debt.

    If the Bdos housing/property market is a bubble then it has been so for many years. So it would be long past time for it to be pricked (and be re-built) than continue this alleged bubbling.

  45. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    @DIW
    I wasn’t stating anything, I was asking the good Blogmaster if my interpretation of his earlier comment was accurate. (see his reply)

  46. Artax Avatar
    Artax

    So far, an interesting discussion on house/property valuations.

    Firstly, I have to agree with Hal Austin re: “The BRA does not determine market value; they determine tax value by putting a value on the property for taxation purposes. The market determines the market value.”

    Secondly, before calculating a property’s value, some “valuers” may require the surveyor’s plot plan, the architectural plans and a land tax bill, to ascertain the size of the land, house size and recent BRA tax assessment respectively, as well as information pertaining to if the market is stable or “declining,” and an estimated “exposure period.”

    I used the term “exposure period,” which basically means: the estimated length of time the property would have advertised on the market prior to the hypothetical consummation of a sale at market value. In other words, the property, “if hypothetically sold, would sell for its market value only as a consequence of having been exposed in an open and competitive market for a “reasonable time” prior to the actual sale taking place.”

    Simple Simon December 12, 2016 at 11:56 PM #

    “But a valuation of a property is not fixed. A property could be worth $1 million today, and could be valued at $800,000 six months later if the economy declines.”

    @ Simple Simon

    Your above comment would not hold true if the market is stable.

    However, if the market is “declining,” property prices may decrease on a daily basis and the seller may reduce the price in hopes of receiving a reasonable offer within a specific time period (e.g. 2 months).

    For example, I saw a “wall house,” (located in St. Thomas) on which construction was completed in March 2016, being advertised since January 2016 for $410,000. In August 2016, the price was reduced to $400,000. Recently, while perusing Carib List, I saw the price has been further reduced to $395,000.

    The above information may not be useful or relevant to this “discussion,” but I thought I would share it nevertheless.

  47. TIEFSINOURMIDST Avatar
    TIEFSINOURMIDST

    I would be nervous about anything a real estate agent told me these days, dem hungry for a sale and will stop at nothing particularly making people believe dat things bad so bring down the price. Up to the seller to decide of course.

    I would be nervous about anything that Gale is involved in.

    I would be nervous about anything that CIBCFirst Caribbean up to.

    I would be nervous about someone in the bank or someone who has a friend in the bank trying to get the property for far less than it is worth.

    I would just be nervous about it all because the stench is competing with the South Coast Sewage smell.

  48. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    It is ludicrous to think that sellers will get top dollar for their properties when the economy is in the sewer (cheeze on bread don’t know how that terminology got in there) it is economics 101 supply and demand. There is an overabundant supply and there are over optimistic sellers never the twain shall meet. In addition, one of the cardinal rules of Real Estate “location, location, location” still applies in Bim. One of my confreres built a home in a development with all the upgrades that one could expect ( I toured it when it was 90% complete) and then placed it on the market for what he considered a decent price, prospective purchasers looked at the property and while they agreed that it was a “nice” home they were not willing to pay that price in what is considered a “Middle class” development particularly when the local village was a quarter mile away. He didn’t want to lower his price but he was able to rent it so his investment is still bringing a return but not what he hoped.

    The lesson is if you build a home in some semi-rural location and decide to sell don’t base your sale price on similar homes in more upmarket areas.

  49. Anonymouse - The Gazer Avatar
    Anonymouse – The Gazer

    Good post Sargeant.

    Sometimes I wonder if it is a mindset that is the root cause of our problem.

    Given the relatively small size of Barbados and public access to the beach, all real estate can be considered as ‘beach front’ property.

    We talk of a tourist belt, when in reality we are speaking of a few miles of shoreline. Given the small size of the island, we should consider the whole island as a tourist belt; then we would be able to motivate all of Barbados to keep the island clean,

    We talk of punching above our weight, but lately when we look at what we have achieve, we have doubts about our weight class.

    We compare ourselves on most matters to the US, when our whole economy may be compared to that of a large city in the US.

    Perhaps if we were able to put aside our ego and our pride and see ourselves as we really are, we might get a good grip on the problems that are facing us.

  50. Alvin Cummins Avatar
    Alvin Cummins

    It is unfortunate that Reverse Mortgages funding is not considered by our financial institutions. Could anything help this situation before it reached this level?

The blogmaster invites you to join and add value to the discussion.

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading