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  • Pingback: Fairness in Action Committee: Save the Home of Ann Riley-Fox | Barbados Underground | bimboy

  • Pingback: Fairness in Action Committee: Save the Home of Ann Riley-Fox | Barbados Underground | bimboy

  • Good luck to all fighting to save the house!

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  • THE POWER OF A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT.

    “the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”

    GOVERNMENTS, CORPORATIONS and INDIVIDUALS fear the onslaught of a CLASS ACTION SUIT.
    For those who are suffering, being defrauded, being manipulated to extract and extort,
    by means of “CONTRACTS” that are of…

    FALSE and MISLEADING INFORMATION/advertising/statements.
    FALSE and FICTICIOUS CONVEYANCE OF GRAMMER as an illusion written in adverb verb.
    DEPRIVATION OF RIGHTS under the color of law.
    CONDUCTING CRIMINAL ACTIVITY HAVING KNOWLEDGE and making no effort to modify or disclose.
    FOR THE REFUSAL, DELAY OF THE EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE LAW.
    FOR NOT CONVEYING LEGAL DOCUMENTS in the correct Quantum Parse Syntax Grammer.
    JUDGEMENTS made by impersonators. PERJURY (having knowledge of a fact but tells a lie TO TWIST IT).
    MISAPPROPIATION. Failing to carry out ones’ legal duties..monetizing other than that intended.
    MAIL FRAUD by non affixing or photocopying of stamps and issuing supposedly LEGAL documents.
    MISREPRESENTATION. (ANYTHING within within a box cannot be considered).
    UNILATERAL CONTRACTS (Contracts with one signature, not signed by the other party).

    BY ESTABLISHING THE FACTS and LAW by protocol, BEING THE VESSLE in dry dock in Maritime/Admiralty LAW
    declearing the illusions of MISDEEDS. NO LAW OR FACT SHALL BE ARGUED IN COURT.
    Compensation will be rewarded to the collective or group in the CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT.

    CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS provides claims for the recourse OF INJURY and it is available to groups of consumers whose
    suffering can be attributed to a common cause. It also establishes protection of groups.
    On winning a C.A.L, each member is awarded the same amount.
    As in the USA, the penalty/fine is US$25 000 000 or 30 years imprisonment per each breach of established Law.
    For the reward of the CLASS ACTION LAWSIUT each member will recieve USA$25 000 000.00

    A group can be the citizenry of a country, a consumer body, a corporate or otherwise workforce, a membership,
    persons coming together with the experience of like injustices… etc.

    A legal representative versed in Quantum Parse Syntax Grammer is highly recommended.

    SUBJECT TO CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS.

    CORRUPT IRREGULARITIES in Legal documents NOT ADHERENT TO LAW of fact.
    MORTGAGES with false and ficticious conveyances of Language/GRAMMER/statements.
    UNILATERAL CONTRACTS (loans or any contractual agreement) with the non issue of hard copies, without the lenders signature and stamps.
    INAPPROPRIATE BILLINGS (STATEMENTS) must be examined and verified for legality (must carry a serial number).
    STATEMENTS BEING ISSUED for the collection of monies. STATEMENTS ARE NOT INVOICES.
    ILLUSIONAL CONVEYANCES/FICTION of product safety via false advertising of goods and services.
    EMPLOYERS who willfully flout the Law in regards to discrimination and rights to employees.
    BUSINESS ENTITIES which charge excessive interest rates, fees and penalties (late payments fees, etc.).
    for which NO GENUINE/TANGIBLE GOODS or SERVICES has been rendered.
    9 FOR CLAIMS of public and private nuisance, trespass, negligence, injury, unjust enrichment, fraudulent
    misrepresentation, misappropiation and civil conspiracy BY THOSE WHO WOULD COHERSE FOR ENRICHMENT.
    FORENSIC INVESTIGATION, followong the money trail as well as credible evidence can produce sound STANDING

    EXAMPLE :
    For the service of water, one enters a “contract” and the service is rendered and a “bill” or
    “invoice” forwarded for bill days and usage. The bill is ESTIMATED.
    With the non supply of water for even longer periods that extends beyond the “quarter, period or BILL DAYS”, a bill or “invoice”
    is still sent.When queries (verbally) are made for non supply, reasons given are that costs represents RENTAL OF EQUIPMENT (not inclusive in
    billing information), no service/supply was rendered, yet a (written) “bill” is tendered.
    THIS IS FOR THE CLAIM OF FALSE AND MISLEADING STATEMENTS.

    Information declared on a service provider STATEMENT/”bill”/”invoice” does not carry a serial number.
    THIS IS FOR THE CLAIM OF INAPPROPRIATE BILLING. It is a statement of account. NOT AN INVOICE.

    All information declared on the statement is enclosed in boxes. Anything within/enclosed a box cannot be considered.
    Ever wondered why the dollar bill was redesigned and printed?…it was enclosed in a box and could not be considered.
    THIS IS FOR THE CLAIM OF MISREPRESENTATION.

    Records show and by observation, rainfall is abundant yet a constant psychological entrainment of the collective
    consciousness to believe or to be conditioned to think that there is a DROUGHT and that it EXISTS is
    the primary reason for inadequate or non supply of water.
    THIS IS FOR THE THE CLAIM FALSE ADVERTISING.

    With the selling of water to Cruise Ships yet embarking on “the experimental importation of water”, the thrust to construct numerous
    Desalination plants, marketing water tanks (TO SUFFERING CUSTOMERS) and related systems, purchasing water tenders
    while customers SUFFER INJURY for want for daily supply.
    THIS IS THE CLAIM FOR THE INJURY, NEGLIGENCE.

    Ever wondered why Banks issue cheque amounts written in italics and in a box?…..or issue “receipts from the teller
    without a stamp and fades away in a short time?….or (simulated) initials affixed to contracts?
    its all engineered folks.

    ONLY CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS WILL MAKE THE ENGINEER, REENGINEER

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  • Well Well & Consequences

    Something has to be done, these predatory loan shark like practices by banks cannot be allowed to continue.

    People need to acquaint themselves with class action lawsuits against those who seek to use the judiciary to defraud those who are unaware.

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  • Under or system of precedence we do not have class actions. We have individual cases which, depending on the seniority of the court, sets the so-called judge-made law. The individual cases, depending on the facts, are test cases.

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  • The Origins of Modern Banking – The Truthseeker

    The bankers are the REAL criminals in society.

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  • that is how capitalism work , there is no moral code or judgement built into the system to protect the poor or unfortunate in time of hardship, there is only one code You Owe You Pay.
    Fortunately for Anne Fox Riley she has friends in high places who came to her rescue the little guy on the other hand have to take their losses and run ,
    Expecting any govt to change the rules is too late in the game the people activism can make a difference by hitting the corporate giants where it hurts the most.
    People have the power to do so..banks cannot be profitable unless they can access funding from the people. banks needs the people money in order to survive

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  • While it is not directly related, CIBC in Canada do NOT charge an enrolment fee or service charge on any DEBIT cards they issue. But down here they impose a whopping $144 annual fee on their recently launched bizline Business debit card, despite extracting a merchant percentage on every transaction and at no risk to the bank (no funds/no payment). We have to stop this GOUGING. Our cards are being cut in half and returned to the bank.

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  • If it one item international companies keep an eye it is reputation, the brand. A lot of international attention will be on Barbados in the next week with Prince Harry present. If you believe your case is justified -we don’t have all the fact in BU forum, go for it!

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  • @ FIAC
    Excellent move.
    But what is the methodology? How do you intend to go forward?

    Have you considered the formation of a National Enfranchisement Cooperative? … One which would seek to raise funds via deposits from members of the public at viable interest rates; and which would then finance profitable and uplifting projects such as this one, that will generate profits to fund the interest due to depositors …while empowering Bajans.

    It is a body such as this – free of political idiocy, (which is where the cooperative philosophy comes in) that can grow to acquire banks, regain local assets and take the country forward.

    There is a Cooperative body that could provide guidance in such a project… and Doyle is a good man.

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  • BU understands this was posted in the Nation Newspaper as well.

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  • Anne Riley is one of the lucky few who has interested parties ready to fight for her .However banks are not going to negotiate on terms and conditions that affect their bottom line
    The more standard approach of withdrawing monetary support carries more weight and leverage to softening harden positions by financial institutions
    Wells Fargo is now seeing a financial decline in profits as depositors closed their accounts and go elsewhere

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  • MORTAGES…The Claim

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  • If the Committee is serious about repurchasing the house on behalf of Ms. Riley all power to them but where were there when this matter was all over the Press, being litigated and interest was accruing increasing the debt?

    I am intrigued by two of their stated goals (1) “Lobbying etc.” what is considered “damaging acts”? Are they proposing changes in the Consumers Act or changes in the law governing Banking?

    (2) “Another financing option”, are we on the verge of seeing the establishment of another financial Institution? I thought the Credit Unions were filling some gaps why not move to strengthen them?

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  • Errata

    S/b “where were they when” etc.

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  • Ann Riley-Fox made several mistakes in this debacle. I hope she gets back her house and the opportunity to rebuild her life.

    However when you go into business you are taking a RISK. There is no guarantee of SUCCESS.

    If you have a mortgage on your house and can’t make payments SELL IT or the mortgagor will foreclose and you could end up broke.

    What we need to know is if in this case the bank and its employees misled or broke any agreement with their client and can she sue the bank and win.

    I am sure there are lawyers who would take her case if it is winnable.

    The “bigger picture” is covered by Bush Tea November 24, 2016 at 7:59 AM #

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  • @Hants

    Possibly Riley-Fox made mistakes but it does not mean procedural matters were followed absolutely by the bank et al. This matter could serve as a learning for others.

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  • @ David,

    I wrote this above “What we need to know is if in this case the bank and its employees misled or broke any agreement.”

    The lesson to be learned is that banks are in business to maximize profits for their shareholders.
    They are ruthless predatory capitalist businesses protected by the law.

    Just look at the ads for Credit cards and Car loans.

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  • @ Hants /David
    Any society in which there are no opportunities to make mistakes and to learn from them without devastating consequences is fatally flawed.
    Nobody made more mistakes than Bizzy. Red Jet is only one of his most notorious ones, yet the banks do not hold these against him…

    @ Sargeant
    Your 9:45 AM is unhelpful.
    The first paragraph is a waste of words. The committee had to start at some point. If they started during the litigation you would have asked where they were when she was signing the agreements; If they started at the agreement you would have ask …. etc.

    What intrigue what??!!
    The people seem to be positioning themselves to become a voice, support and resource centre for persons who find themselves overwhelmed by these crooked institutions.
    Not a shiite wrong with that….

    …and what the hell is wrong with ‘another financing option’?
    In your albino-land …don’t you have a multiplicity of such options ranging from banks, to credit unions, to endowment funds and even crowd funding?

    Steupsss…
    Leave the damn people alone do!!

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  • Noted Hants.

    It is good there is some focus being brought to the financial sector. Focus as in specifics and not the usual nebulous BS.

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  • de pedantic Dribbler

    @David … perfectly well stated at 10:28. Sargeant and Hants have captured the developments well.

    It is awesome that Ms Riley-Fox can rely on this ‘white knight’ organization to lift her from financial ruin but absent misdeeds from the bankers her predicament may be a result of risk taking gone awry and from that we can all learn valuable lessons.

    As a corollary of the many sides of a story, a friend sent me this morn a Doonesbury cartoon pic of a US Thanksgiving lunch. At the head was Linus; on the right – a little congested – his four White friends including Snoppy the beagle in his bomber flier’s hat. Another white friend sat at the other end of the table.

    And on the left side a single Black friend with all the room in the world.

    Two ways to look at that image: When you are a King you demand your own side of the table or …. you make America great again and move the interlopers- who you do invite to lunch- to ‘stay on their side’

    Mrs Riley-Fox scenario is just as ‘subjective’ and provocative, I expect.

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  • @Bush Tea

    Yes there is an inequality -not only Whites but minorities. Some of the blame must be redirected to Blacks. Have you observed how Whites, Indians, Syrians etc group together to pursue common interest?Take this matter with Riley-Fox and how our Black kind -without the facts- have started to rail against her situation.

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  • Commercial banks are unnecessary in this day and age.

    Public banking is a far more obvious option if the global gangsters would allow. And we have the example of North Dakota.

    Public banking circumvents the onerous interest rates regimes which kill poor people and under-develop our societies. In public banking, money is created or printed and lent directly to the public at near-zero interest rates. As repaid it is then withdrawn from the public money supply. So we have a cheap way of funding development without the onerous interest which acts as multiplier.

    And the ideas around cooperatives are also as solid. When these two are combined with newer electronic methods and made to be based on real assets it will mean the death of commercial banking.

    But there are powerful banksters making sure this modern form of debt slavery must continue.

    Lastly, there will be an ugly man from England who will now seek to say we locate everything in slavery. An ignorant nigger.

    All of the major banks in England were founded based on the slave trade. What irony!

    CIBC FirstCaribbean has the same base.

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  • BOTTOM LINE —– If you borrow money you have to pay it back, case closed. I’m getting sick of Bagan’s crying about the wolf at the door, if you don’t keep your finances in order you can expect a visit from the wolf/devil and a collection agency.

    If debtor has failed to meet the loan requirements which he/her signed then loaner has the right to recover their debt.

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  • Wily Coyote November 24, 2016 at 11:20 AM

    Right on

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  • @Bushy
    You should forget the notion that I just rolled off the Dale Carnegie bus with the destination “How to win friends and Influence people”. What is wrong with raising questions about this proposed act of generosity and philanthropy? What about coming forward earlier in the process instead of waiting until after the eviction?

    Seems to me you are always praising the Credit Unions but when someone proposes the strengthening of the same you are all for adding more bodies to the mix. How many pieces do you want to slice the Barbados financial pie into? The more the merrier is a recipe for more financial disasters down the road.

    BTW ‘albino land’ has been overused, don’t you have any more trite descriptions?

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  • Well Well & Consequences

    I believe the local credit unions need to play bigger, safer more accomodating roles for local people.

    Foreign banks were designed to be predatory, let them take their predatory and loansharking business elsewhere, the local credit unions should step in a play a bigger, better more honest role than can be found in the foreign banks, they are already well established.

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  • The house was advertise on the front page of the nation for $725.000.

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  • Anonymouse - TheGazer

    The use of the N word is not appropriate for friend or foe. Using it gives it longevity and currency.

    Seen it popping up on BU, way too often.

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  • @ Sargeant
    …albino land’ has been overused, don’t you have any more trite descriptions?
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Of course!
    Bushie has plenty more, ….but none more appropriate to your situation.
    So if Bushie has a horse …why seek a cow to ride…?

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  • …and for your elucidation Sarge, a Credit Union is just a particular form of co-operative… one that deals with finance. Coops can deal in ANY area of human activity that offers benefits to homogeneous groups.
    …food, housing, manufacturing, commerce, banking, insurance, …. you name it.

    ‘Enfranchisement’ is just another potential (albeit creative) activity, it would therefore NOT be a ‘new body’ to the mix, but simply a new avenue through which to apply the approach.

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  • Better go do a title search to see if the banks was dealing in fraud to start, First Caribbean CIBC have been in fraud for 30 years ,, Check you title and see if you deed was even recorded and counter search,
    What was the name of the Plantation is which is home was built?

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  • de pedantic Dribbler

    @Bush Tea November 24, 2016 at 3:11 PM “… Coops can deal in ANY area of human activity that offers benefits to homogeneous groups…”

    That is true. You often speak in esoteric terms about coops. The concept of mutual group association working towards an advantageous end permeates all aspects of society and has done so basically from day one.

    The fact that Ms. Riley has benefited as above makes no more of a case for the group who has assisted her than it suggests that the bankers were devious.

    She is but one individual caught in the vagaries of life and were circumstances managed differently by her or her bankers or even by one of the current credit unions on island we would never have heard of this.

    Cooperative life is real and meaningful but has seemingly become some type of mystical word when used by you (not unlike your albino-centric lingo) but the simple words ‘it takes a village to raise a child’ is as purposeful a meaning as any you may offer of the long standing reality of cooperative life!

    It’s wonderful Ms. Riley found this option but had she quietly raised another loan to cover her obligations would she have not tapped into cooperative assistance then too.

    Surely if the banks facilitated the business arrangement for 36 long years something different must have precipitated this drastic change….

    So taking this transaction for what it is: rather harsh business, as others have bluntly said, why all the hoopla about coops.

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  • “If you have a mortgage on your house and can’t make payments SELL IT or the mortgagor will foreclose and you could end up broke.”

    Generally speaking in our jurisdiction Hants we borrow from the bank to purchase a property but unfortunately we cannot like in Canada take the matter into our own hands and sell the property and pay off the bank and keep the residue. In any transaction relating to the divestment of the property the bank must be involved because they are holding the deeds.

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  • “David November 24, 2016 at 10:58 AM #

    @Bush Tea

    Yes there is an inequality -not only Whites but minorities. Some of the blame must be redirected to Blacks. Have you observed how Whites, Indians, Syrians etc group together to pursue common interest?Take this matter with Riley-Fox and how our Black kind -without the facts- have started to rail against her situation.”

    ‘Right church but wrong pew.’ – while there is much truth in the comment that the other ethnicities do pull together. The facts are that Mrs Riley-Fox owes the bank and cannot pay and the bank is foreclosing on a property assigned to them as collateral.

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  • Bring back memories of Neville Rowe and JulieN, and Bizzy who was so eager to get his paws on it.

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  • “In any transaction relating to the divestment of the property the bank must be involved because they are holding the deeds.”

    I live and learn. Why would that be?

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  • Your are obviously seized with the facts therefore BU gives way to you.

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  • Well Well & Consequences

    https://nakeddeparture.com/2016/11/24/first-caribbean-international-bank-barbados/

    To make an ugly situation even uglier, here is a former CIBC employee apparently confessing to stealing from customer’s accounts, I know personally CIBC has a very serious problem with employee thefts, particularly if you have standing orders in place, the employees see it as a way to steal your money, when you go to the fraud squad, the bank quietly returns the money to your account…..

    …… check your accounts often, the banks are infested with thieves for employees.

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  • @ David
    You must forgive those who do not live in Barbados …for their inability to grasp the facts on the ground.
    Boss…
    If Bushie was did not happen to be located here, and to observe the shiite that results from whacking around the place, he would not believe the reality here either.

    Northern Observer probably can never rationalise a situation where a bank would deliberately provide funding to an optimistic, naive young entrepreneur ….KNOWING FULL WELL that it will only take a ‘small misfortune’ to place that victim at their mercy.

    Such a ‘small misfortune’ can easily be arranged by delaying a line of credit – awaiting “approval from head office”, while goods are held up in the port awaiting clearance….. or where critical repairs to equipment is holding up a big order.
    ‘Small misfortunes’ also can occur where some new business competitor suddenly arrives on the scene – almost as if they had access to your business plan…. and your clients.

    In short order, your ‘best plan’ is to transfer your business /home/ investment to some convenient ‘buyer’ who just happens to know what is the minimum amount needed to satisfy the bank.

    This is essentially what Northern Observer means by ‘sell the property and pay the bank’.
    Most persons do just that …. and Bajans continue to be disenfranchised.
    A few are like Bushie with a bad-ass step-father… which is why Bushie still rich as shiite…
    …and some are like Ann, who take offence at being scammed, and (naively) expects support from the public….

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  • She was going to lose it anyways..it was just a matter of time. Here is how the system works for those of you who are thinking of buying a home. You pay your mortgage religiously and finally get it paid off now you are secure for life.. hardly, now reality sets in
    You bought in a great area and it has gotten better over all these years you and your husband retires life is good. Well as life goes he dies, if he had a pension you get 66% of his 70 % . Because you live in that great area your property taxes keep going up because everyone wants to live there as your income is eroded eventually forcing you to make the choice of eating or living in that great house. Now you sell it or the city takes it away for back taxes that have an interest rate of 24 % and you move into a decent old age home that sucks your income out till infation again has eroded your income and you move to a cheaper home then a cheaper home till finally after all your money is gone and you are in the home with the great unwashed those are the lucky people that didnt get sick or have children who use you as a personal bank
    So it doesnt matter if it is the bank or the govt or the retirement home people they are going to get that house,

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  • Lawson don’t be an ass.

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  • Lol David thats not the best part, if you get a kitten to replace that old hubby ,and it has kittens and over time more have kittens and you dont have the heart to get rid of them well hey you have this big empty old house and they are so cute. You will eventually become the crazy cat lady on the corner every neiborhood has one. Watch ..grey gardens ..it happens to the richest families

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  • @ David…
    What!!!??
    That’s perhaps the most serious contribution from Lawson to date…..

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  • David:

    Lawson has a point. This the first time I have ever seen you become unhinged. A youngster the other day got a piece of land in the Graham Hall area. His tax bill with no house on it was $1,000.00. The system is a nasty piece of works!!

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  • Well Well & Consequences

    It certinly is the way the mortgage system is set up, you only live in the fantasy that the house and land belongs to you, those who live in large cities are quite familiar with eminent domain and all the other ways to lose your property.

    The foreign banks in Barbados are set up and designed that way in the metropolises, they are merely practicing what is their true nature in the small islands.

    The islands are small enough to design their own system that would not disenfranchise majority blacks, put all that so called high level of educaton to better use, as it stands, the foreign bank’s fantasies are being fulfilled, their goals are being met, using those methods.

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  • World is Watching

    @Well Well & Consequences

    You mentioned that when an individual goes to the fraud squad about money re missing from First Caribbean account the money is promptly returned.

    First Caribbean Bank Barbados has a Fraud Investigator Dansal Stoute who works in collusion with the same Barbados Fraud Squad in a criminal conspiracy.
    .
    So what you have stated is no surprise.

    Many FCIB accounts especially elderly and dormant are being robbed and most people are not aware.

    So the few that notice and report they move fast to cover up and not have bad publicity and exposure of the scam which has been happening for many years.

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  • @Bush Tea

    We should not be so ready to trivialize what has happened to this woman. She has always been a hard worker and based on what we are hearing she has received the shitty end of the stick. Some are quick to state the obvious pay or shut up. Some of us know it is not so simple sometimes. It is good to see someone trying to fight against the system.

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  • World is Watching

    Correction

    Name is Damson Stoute

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  • @ David
    You are correct about the fairness of the particular case and the need for a redress of the situation.
    But Bushie saw Lawson’s contribution at a completely different level. Basically he is echoing the words of a famous writer who said ….’in the end, all is vanity’

    …or as Bushie would say, Lotta shiite… 🙂

    Lawson did not even give the worse case scenario.
    The hubby did not have to die, just take ill (as we all do in old age).
    Between the tax man, grocery, doctors, druggists, hospital, care-givers and parasitic family members, he and his wife will be broke in no time….after lifetime efforts to secure a good home.

    So while this is an important issue, we need to see that ultimately, there must be bigger issues that are much more significant and permanent, than the basic necessities of life….
    This is why the ‘poor’ are blessed, – they may not be distracted with the ‘lotta shiite….and may well be able to focus on the REAL, longer-term issues of living….

    Of course nowadays, thanks to TV, marketing power, political promises, and ignorance of the REAL purpose of life, the brass bowl poor now spend all their efforts in albino-centric pursuits which only serves to make them angry, frustrated, bitter and resentful…
    So the Rich are ff’ed… as Lawson explained,
    …as are the poor…
    and so…there is no hope.

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  • Instead of delving into the facts of the matter people are alleging that Bank employees are stealing from depositors. Employee theft is a fact of life whether they are working at Banks or other places, they steal office supplies or other material depending on where they work, they even steal toilet paper. Yours truly knows of a mason who built his home by taking home two bricks a day from his various work sites. Banks compensate their customers if an employee is found to have stolen from them no “buts’ about it so those who claim to have knowledge of employee theft from the various Financial Institutions in the island should report it to the Head Offices in those locations. Any allegation of theft will be investigated.

    Here is what we know, the client tried to grow her business by borrowing funds from the Bank using her home as collateral. The business failed and she was unable to repay the Bank, talk about items being held in the Port is immaterial and to use Bajan vernacular “a load of shite”. Business failures are also a fact of life many people lose their life’s savings because of business failures, it happens more often than we think in Barbados and the wider world but everyone doesn’t have a sympathetic media to complain about their predicament. The Bank tried to realize on its security and all the bleeding hearts complain about the big bad Bank, if the Bank had advanced an unsecured loan the talk would be about those ‘fools” at the Bank who are left hanging. A lot of wunna driving cars with a “Bill of Sale” (at least that was what it was called back in the day) don’t repay that loan and see if your next mode of transportation isn’t a ZR or by foot.

    That’s also life.

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  • @Sargeant

    Again you are painting this issue as black and white. There is a wide interpretation in the use of your words “business failed”. Bush Tea already explained how an insensitive Bank (credit officer) could have adversely affected her business. A delay in stock clearing through the port, a hit on cashflow based on seasonality etc. We don’t have all the facts!

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  • Maybe so Bush Tea, we have to be pragmatic as well.

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  • @ Sargeant
    Like a true NCO, you just follow the script without needing to know the background that commissioned officers tend to consider.
    Yours is not to reason why…

    When someone starts a business, they enter a symbiotic relationship with a financial institution that presumes that they have each others mutual welfare at heart.
    The Bank expects a constant turnover of business that will generate interest, commissions and fees from the business, and the business expects that the bank will be a resource during cash-flow shortages, during cash gluts (with meaningful fixed deposits etc) and a reliable financial advisor (especially with young inexperienced businesses).

    You are either VERY naive, or worse, if you cannot see the dangers of predatory elements working within a banking system to prey on vulnerable clients.

    For example….
    A PERFECTLY viable business, that could have made a handsome profit on a shipment, could become a ‘failed’ business because a line-of-credit or loan needed to clear that shipment is denied or delayed for some ‘technical’ reason …while port charges, customer frustration, reputation for reliability, and such critical liabilities build up…..
    …and while a surprisingly ‘in the know’ competitor out of nowhere, is somehow able to offer your customers interim service….

    Sometimes you should just shut up…like a good NCO…..

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  • Well Well & Consequences

    World is Watching…it happened to me in the 90s at the former CIBC branch that is in Rock Dundo, near Cave Hill, I dont know if the dude you are referring to was around then, but it was over 22 years ago , the dude at fraud squad called the person with the standing order and the bank, the money was returned to the account.

    Years later in the 2000s, I had not checked the accounts for 2 years, the standing order was supposed to automaticaly stop, mechanisms are in place for that, when I finally checked the account, thousands of dollars had been removed….again CIBC replaced the money.

    I spent years working in one of the world’s biggest banks, I know their procedures very well and is very aware that the banks in Barbados are highly infested with thieves..more than normal and much than any other workplace….

    …..as we know it because of the large population in the US….those who have the propensity for stealing in banks can tief 5 cents a day from each account for 30 years and become millionaires, I saw accounts missing pennies, multiply that by millions of accounts.

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  • @Bushy

    You have a habit of playing to the cheap seats and ignoring facts but I will not budge from my position or “shut up” as you hope. Businesses have “good” and “bad” seasons and most Financial Institutions will work with their clients to bring the loan up to date. The Banks don’t want to go through the realms of paperwork, lost productivity, interaction with lawyers that arises from situations like this, a happy client is good for business as both parties benefit from this “symbiotic” arrangement, the client will spread the news of how her Bank helped her through a stressful period and the Bank will continue to make money with interest charges, service charges and an expanding client base.

    @David

    Blaming a loan officer is a reach why not blame Port employees or Public servants for failure to clear items why not blame customers for not purchasing enough or for abandoning the business? Seems everyone likes to point the finger at another party rather than face reality.

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington.

    There are some lessons to be learnt from this case.

    Never use one’s home as collateral for your business. Register your business as a separate person/company. When it fails claim bankruptcy like Trump.

    The value of a home fluctuates There will be times during its existence when its value will be lower than the loan, borrowed to build, extend or replace it. There will be times when the outstanding loan balance will be less than the value of the house.

    Be careful what one adds to a house. Because of the location additions may not add value. Location determines value. There is no point in putting a five bedroom house on 6000 square feet of land in a middle class development.

    This intervention is not based on the facts of this particular case. I have no such knowledge nor do I need it.

    Like

  • Sargeant those of us who run businesses on the Rock are acutely aware of how aggressive the Canadian banks especially have been regarding their tightening of credit policy in recent years. Some good and marginal companies have been negativity affected. This we can speech to with certainty.

    Like

  • de pedantic Dribbler

    @Bernard, wow. You spoke the proverbial mouthful. I was, with great difficulty, trying to understand how an individual situation such as this could result in the broadsides from BushTea and to a lesser extent David towards Sargeant’s reasoned remarks on the consumer financial system.

    The worthy protagonists appear to throw the entire burden of the problems at the bankers when surely the loanee also was partially at fault.

    Incidentally, as you know only too well, at times the home is the last line of collateral for the small, under-capitalized risk taking entrepreneur. It’s bad form to place your house (and family) into a volatile financial cauldron but when chasing that big deal with no willing investors it’s an ‘easy’ ploy. The ‘dangerous impending’ doom is always ‘far away’.

    @David, and how is Barbados or the Caribbean unique re “banks tightening credit policies in recent years”. After 2008 average loan clients, small and large businesses in US were decimated by tightening credit.

    Folks who did all the right things to manage their operations with the regular ebbs and flows of cash flow problems, invoices paid to their max 30 days sometimes or a bit over but ALWAYS paid, unceremoniously had their credit limits reduced and in some cases lines of credit terminated. It crushed some. And it was totally UNNECESSARY.

    Not one of small or mid-size operators were the real cause of the financial debacle but many were doubly screwed. It was painful.

    So I read this problem with Ms Riley and shake my head on the ‘grand’ pronouncements made by you and BushTea. Let us and her be absolutely glad that she had a savior to pull her from the fire….some others do and did not.

    Like

  • @Dee Word

    Believe what you will, we know what we know.

    On Friday, 25 November 2016, Barbados Underground wrote:

    >

    Like

  • @David
    Loan losses have impacted the Banks bottom line in recent years, one only has to pay attention to their annual reports, no doubt they will be paying close attention to those “marginal’ loans. HO in TO will often dictate policy and put pressure on local employees. Everyone has a job to do and if you fail you are through the door. Businesses in the Caribbean have not fully recovered (if at all) from the effects of the recession, if they don’t have their ducks in order it will be “katie bar the door”

    Like

  • @Sargeant

    And this is the point, the foreign banks have elevated credit and risk policies compared to local and regional FI’S because of shareholder expectations ROI etc.

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington.

    @ David 10: 24 AM
    Companies do well during a boom when there is full employment and when there is a market for the good or service being produced.
    When ,however, there is a recession with persons losing jobs and there is no market for the firms output, income for marginal businesses declines. This causes a cash flow problem for most businesses. A caring bank may recognize this and restructure the loan or even offer a moratorium on the debt.
    However, the banker is constrained by the need to maintain staff, pay interests on deposits and earn an acceptable rate of return to shareholders. So it is a balancing act.
    Very often the banker who gave the loan is not the same officer who has to ensure that each client is profitable. So it is not an easy decision. My experience is that banks resort to foreclosures after exploring all avenues to help the customer.

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington.

    @ David
    You are quite aware that the Canadian banking system did not suffer the banking failures which the financial system in USA and European countries experienced. It was precisely because of their strict adherence to financial probity. This is good for them and perhaps bad for us. When we had local development and commercial banks they took the strain. But you will also recalled they were roundly lambasted for not being as efficient as foreign banks. So this is a case where banks are damned if they do and damned if they do not do.

    Like

  • @Bernard

    And you are aware the Canadian mortgage market is government-backed?

    Do the math.

    http://www.cba.ca/changes-to-canadas-mortgage-market

    Like

  • BREAKING NEWS!!! Srt a new blog to discuss pleas… David?

    With less than two years to go before the next general election, Barbados Labour Party (BLP) Leader Mia Mottley is already making a case to the private sector as to why a Government under her leadership would be capable of digging the country “out of the seemingly bottomless pit”.

    http://www.barbadostoday.bb/2016/11/25/mias-plan/

    Like

  • “Tugging at the heartstrings of the business community, Mottley said the country was suffering from a huge fiscal deficit, inefficiencies, corruption”

    Like

  • Bernard Codrington.

    @ David 12:12 PM

    What do you mean by Government backed? I read the referenced article and it seems to be setting stringent constraints on getting a house mortgage. These conform to my concept of financial probity. Do you think if these guidelines were set for prospective purchasers at the Grotto and Valery that many working class persons would qualify ? But it is possible I have misread.

    Like

  • @ David,

    The change to stringent mortgage constraints is based on the expectation that mortgage and interest rates will rise in a year or two.

    The Canadian economy is not as robust as we would hope.

    Like

  • In canada we cannot deduct interest on your personal residence, I thought in the us you can up to the first million and in barbados up to 10000 per year so over 36 yrs a wise saver could have saved a lot of money . Is it possible that could come into the lower calculation

    Like

  • Bush Tea there is one caveat to us being just as screwed as the poor eventually as MB knows well is to own many houses sell them one at a time to support everything and dont outlive the money

    Like

  • Bernard,
    This claim is a myth. The leading Canadian banks were up to their necks in the sub-prime scandal. They were buying off balance sheet packaged mortgages, the kind that led to the collapse of Lehmann Bros through the counterparty risks.
    Bernard, which country are you in? Are you a trained and working economist? These arguments were all debated eight years ago. The world has moved on.
    In any case, Canada is in the second eleven of global economies.

    Like

  • GOIN WD OWIN AGAIN???

    “MAKE A DECISION! The advice of former Prime Minister Owen Arthur to the Freundel Stuart administration, which has been resisting entering into a full-fledged International Monetary Fund (IMF) programme.

    http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/90729/arthur-delay#sthash.s3ilMJz8.dpuf

    Like

  • Steupsss
    Wunna always pontificating on the ‘rules of albino-land’ when the moot is the shiite that going on in brass bowl land.
    This has NOTHING to do with the rules of banking in Canada. the USA ,or even Barbados. it is about the REALITY of average Bajans accessing funding for business in brassbados. It only takes two or three crooks, well placed in a bank, to create a reality here, that defies all the rules and regulations in place.
    No one in their right mind would suggest that an international bank would have POLICIES that are clearly discriminatory. …or that they would hand out money wily nilly.

    The problem is that there are elements at work who use the bank to exploit the weaknesses of small business persons who must of necessity expose their achilles heels to these banks. Most victims are then made to feel ashamed because of idiotic comments such as those we see from Sargeant, (that they are to blame for being poor businesspeople) and this allows the crooks to get away with the shiite.

    No doubt the same thing happens in Canada and elsewhere, it just does not go on, and on, and on, ….because the regulators there are actually competent, are not related to politicians, and are themselves under proper supervision and scrutiny….. unlike here with our shiite central banker who cannot even grasp the basis of currency pegging.

    Like

  • @Bushie
    The banking system isn’t as different as you might think.

    The issue is perspective. IF the bank (FI) doesn’t lend to persons without an AAA+ credit rating their business will stagnate. And in little Bim they will be accused of not ‘supporting the local economy’. It happens in all the small towns in Canada too, especially the farmers. The ‘misfortunes’ of which you speak, you seem to be convinced are intentional. Having a loan go bad is NEVER in the banks best interest. The bank itself has minimal control over the day to day decisions made by the company or individual.

    If you wish to extrapolate your theory, just look at credit cards. Even in today’s historically low interest rate environment, CC debt is still at 18%+ compounded daily. Anybody can get a credit card, unless they have declared bankruptcy (my point an official bad mark on their credit history). And people “lie” on all kinds of things to get CC’s. It becomes a matter of balance, making money vs losing money. And appreciate when a CC goes bad, and the customer owes say $7000, the majority of that is interest. The actual hard loss is only what the bank paid on the purchases made on the CC.

    If they don’t have defaulters, they don’t have a business. Customers who pay the full amount on time generate no income for the CC issuer.

    There is no question all these products (loans) are going to hit the ‘poorer’ customers hardest. Or those without much financial savvy.

    Like

  • @ Northern Observer
    Having a loan go bad is NEVER in the banks best interest.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    You still miss the point.

    Having CAHILL was never in the country’s best interest…
    ….neither is SBRC
    … The Desal scam
    … Sandals,
    ….Four Seasons,
    …..the shiite that was done to the Andrews sugar factory
    …nor any number of other ‘projects’ undertaken by politicians.

    But “it’s an ill wind that blows no one any good…”

    You can rest assured that in EACH of the above cases, and in many of the bank defaults of which we speak, certain elements make a killing.

    Some even show charity by making their mothers very rich….

    Like

  • Have people here never heard about disaster capitalism?

    Could it be merely cyclic that we always have these ups and downs, at the personal, national, global levels?

    There has never been any better way for banks to make money than through disasters.

    Like

  • I know a guy who sold a 100 unit apt building for a buck because he wrote off so much interest that the building it was virtually worthless because of the govt recapture on sale. Kids today get all types of parental advice but the best would be to get an acct as soon as they start working.

    Like

  • lawson November 25, 2016 at 7:53 AM
    Not forgetting the mega-churches that are now springing up all over Barbados, some of which are encouraging the elderly among their flock to take out loans and reverse mortgages on their properties. Like the fellow who bought a million dollar church with loans secured by some of his followers, then legged it off to the States, leaving these people in Shiite Street,and I don’t mean Rockley or Worthing. Or the doctor/pastor /senator who bragged that he had spent some $5million building his mega- church , and did not borrowed a cent from the bank. There are vultures at every street corner in Barbados. Three -card brag men come in many different suits.

    Like

  • Bush Tea November 25, 2016 at 3:14 PM

    etc, etc, etc

    What has happened to the Del Mastro/Deltro solar panel plant shipped from Arizona to Bridgetown harbour in October 2015.

    https://www.meiriggingcrating.com/project/solar-energy-factory-relocation/

    “MEI Rigging and Crating’s Arizona team executed the rigging teardown and disassembly of the solar line and other equipment, crated the production line, and blocked and and braced it on an ocean container headed for Barbados. The Deltro Electric job used a total of 30 high cube containers (tall shipping containers) and 4 flatbed trucks to transport the disassembled solar module manufacturing line, along with everything else in the building. There were a total 55 skids and 15 crates used to package up all the equipment from the line. The largest size crate was for the Framing Station with dimensions of 268 x 147 x 79. The heaviest crate was the Laminator which weighed in at 32,000 lbs (crate & tool) and measured 221 x 137 x 118.”

    That is a lot of storage charges.

    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/former-mp-dean-del-mastros-26m-solar-venture-in-barbados-stuck-in-the-dark

    Like

  • Col what would you pay for an extra minute on this planet to say goodbye to family, and have life ever after that is what these snake oil men are selling. We should be smarter the older we get ……….Life is a good teacher but it kills all its pupils

    Like

  • Due Diligence November 25, 2016 at 5:40 PM #
    Perhaps they have already profited by some tax write off back in the States.
    Not known to many, some years ago and American Company, brought in an old bottling plant ,set up production in one of the vacated factory units in Newton Industrial Estate. They produced plenty cans of Classic Cola, but not a single can was exported, or officially , sold locally. Some weeks later, with a warehouse packed with coke , the operators who by this time were back in the States , phoned the caretaker/watchman and instructed him to dump the whole lot in the land fill.
    The old bottling plant was dismantled, and probably shipped to another island to continue the scam.
    We in the Caribbean are easy prey

    Liked by 1 person

  • The way we were. BLP-DLP united by a bottle a rum (or a glass of champagne ). lol

    http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/90727/arthur-careful-privatisation

    Like

  • @BushT
    you are fairly logical fella, and now you mixing up a bunch of political extravaganzas with the operation of a large private entity? You know one is for profit and the others operate at a loss.

    Like

  • Bush T is clearly out of his depth in understanding the relationship between Banks and their clients so he resorts to vague pronouncements about “‘two or three crooks well placed in a bank”. In his futile attempt to locate a villain he hints of a conspiracy by these crooks to defy rules established by their employer. When all else fails he resorts to accusations of nefarious activities by “ elements at work who use the bank to exploit the weaknesses of small business persons”. He fails to understand that bad loans (the Banks would term them non- current loans) reflect poorly on the individual(s) who place them on the books. They may not result in someone being dismissed (unless there are too many in their portfolio) but they will affect their raises, bonuses and diminish your chances of being promoted. No Peter Principle there.

    He portrays Bajan small business owners as being poor business persons who are taken advantage of by bankers, perhaps those small business people should follow his advice and avoid Banks, there is always Microcredit.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcredit

    Like

  • @ Sargeant
    You are so clueless…. 🙂
    You are lucky to have made it past corporal.

    Anyway, …have the last word.
    You are most likely being genuine, since you probably don’t have the kind of money that would expose you to the issues under discussion.

    Poverty is a good defence against robbery.
    LOL
    ha ha ha

    Like

  • Officially, one will see numerous reports that approx 9.5 million US households suffered to foreclosures and short sales after 2007. I think that number is low, because short sales (defined…a sale of real estate in which the net proceeds from selling the property will fall short of the debts secured by liens against the property) are never known in full. I guesstimate the total closer to 13 million.

    Now appreciate, every person directly affected has family and friends. I need only direct you to the outpouring on BU towards Ms Riley Fox and the FI involved. Ya think they were pissed?

    And a bunch here on BU wonder why the Democrats lost the election? They did well to get that close.

    The US government bailed out several of the same FI’s who were involved in creating the mess (remember “too big to fail”?) but how many were ever charged? Or convicted? This despite paying very quiet, but frequent fines or penalties in the Billions, without any “admission of guilt”. They did it because they wanted to??? Right. Within two years they are back to collecting 6 figure salaries and bonuses; why? They were worth it? No, because the system had no consequences. They even bailed out several large employers.

    You think the folks who lost all their money (equity) in those deals forgot? Then they lay out an economic policy of historically low interest rates. Have you heard the song and the words? People will be able to borrow again, and this will lead to “investment” and will get the economy growing, and this growth will generate the jobs and taxes to repay the debts. You still waiting for that?….well me too.

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  • @Northern

    You seem to link the financial crisis circa 2008 at the feet of the Democrats it didn’t start under Obama’s watch he inherited it, if you are hinting that they lost because none of the bankers were sent to jail because of their actions the only person that the Republican electorate wanted to send to jail was Hillary. I agree that people should have been prosecuted but the Executive thought that prosecution would tie up the Justice Dept. for years and the efforts of the Justice Dept. under Holder/Lynch would be better focused on other matters which proved to be all for naught given who will now be in charge of that Dept.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%932008

    Like

  • Lest you think that only US FI’s were bailed out here is some bedtime reading:

    NB. This was a Conservative Gov’t led by Harper

    https://www.policyalternatives.ca/sites/default/files/uploads/publications/National%20Office/2012/04/Big%20Banks%20Big%20Secret.pdf

    Like

  • Bush Tea wrote ” Poverty is a good defense against robbery.”

    good one Bushie.

    Like

  • Sarge
    Did I say the Democrats began it? Failure to prosecute showed the people they were no different to any prior administration, and treated millions of financially compromised citizens with disrespect compared to how they treated the bankers. That pissed off alot of people. Reasons like “failure to clog the court system” is BS. They spent how many trillion in debt and couldn’t hire 200 lawyers and CPA’s?

    Mine is not a left-right, Dem-Rep, Lib-PC-NDP, DLP-BLP argument. It is until collectively something is done to make people responsible for their actions little will change. The current US administration had the choice and chose to do nothing.

    Canada is in no sweet position? Forget the Federal accounts, the provincial, town and city accounts are in a mess.

    Like

  • Fidel Castro dead at age 90.

    Like

  • its the moment the small islands have been dreading; I wonder if Raoul can keep the lid on Cuba or will the people have two chickens in every pot. If they really open their doors to tourism and investment look out carribean
    Hants living up north you should know the value of a heat pump. You know being able to recover heat even in the coldest temperatures because there is a difference of 10 degrees of heat between =20 and -30 . So if you think poverty is a good defence I pray you dont run into someone worse off than you
    Canada may be down but we have something to sell resources,tourism,knowledge I like our chances compared to the rest of the world. Canada voted one of the best places to live ottawa voted one of the best places in canada dont just trust me 150000 somalies cant be wrong.

    Like

  • Pingback: Response by CIBC First Caribbean International Bank to the Offer to Buy the Property of Ann Riley-Fox | Barbados Underground

  • Does this sound like someone in the bank, or his/her friends, or the lawyer(s) offices might just have made a good deal under the counter to purchase same said property. It does happen. Believe it.

    Like

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