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Sir Garfield is Right!

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Submitted by Wayne Cadogan
Sir Gary Sobers
Sir Gary Sobers

It appears that everyone wants to condemn Sir Garfield Sobers for speaking the truth regarding the status of players and state of West Indies Cricket. Well, I endorse every word that he said, he is so right.

[…]

I have been saying the same thing for the past few years myself and have been scoffed at. Yes they are a few exceptions who are committed to West Indies cricket but the majority is not. I totally agree that the majority are there for the money and personal glory.

The other world cricketers who represent their countries play with honour and therefore that level of commitment and pride is to their individual countries and their people. We do not have that kind of commitment by the West Indies players to the West Indies Cricket team. However, when they are playing for their respective islands, you can see a different level of commitment and pride, one that is not seen when playing for the West Indies team.

Let’s face the facts, we are divided in the Caribbean as a people; politically and socially, and it has cascaded to the cricket team. When it suits us, we say that we are West Indians, but we are very much divided.  How can we expect that the players will unite and be committed to West Indies cricket!

Take Bravo senior for example, “IPL first. Trinidad second and then any number could play”. Then the Board brings him to captain the West Indies team, well, everyone knows the embarrassment, problems and debt that he created for the Board and West indies cricket. He should never have been selected as a West Indies captain after his statement regarding his loyalty to the IPL.

We have to stop sweeping everything under the rug and making excuses for our players. Given the mindset of the majority of our young cricketers today in relation to the players of yesteryear, our cricket will always languish at the bottom. It is only a matter of time before the West Indies team suffers the same fate as Zimbabwe.

Another major problem here in the West Indies, is that only those who played cricket feel that they are the only ones who have the right to comment on the game. The truth is, and everyone will hate me for making this factual statement, the education level among the players is very low with the exception of a few players.

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154 responses to “Sir Garfield is Right!”

  1. Sid Boyce Avatar
    Sid Boyce

    I don’t see it as solely a player problem.
    A labourer charges $84 a day, that day can be from 10 AM to 4 PM with 2 hours for lunch. A lawyer charges so much, same a doctor and the same for most every profession.
    A relative recently told me on a visit to England that a civil servant who she had previously worked with at the University told her that sometimes she falls asleep at her desk and sometimes never bothers to go back after lunch if she doesn’t feel like doing so.
    Such attitudes I have been told are common place.

    The question I posed on caribbeancricket.com some years ago never got a response – If you take 11 citizens out of that environment to play cricket at international level is it not unrealistic to expect them to perform?

    It’s not just my conclusion that hotel maids contribute more to the economy than lots of the “professionals”.

  2. ac Avatar
    ac

    You see back in the day the sport was not played solely on an international or local level but on an ingrained spirit of good will and a philosophy that said and meant COUNTRY FIRST .
    In today’s environment that “said: philosophy has been eroded by selfishness and greed,
    Which means that at the end of the last and final days play all players are out the scoreboard numbers are disappointing and everybody loses
    The most sobering question that remains (is) how does a knuckle head board membership rebuild and reshape a team with a thirst and hunger for winning when the wheel that makes the team move in a positive direction is missing,

  3. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Steupsss…

    So if the big-up administrators do it for the money, the perks, the travel …and nobody seems to care… why is everyone picking on the damn players…?
    …at least they have to train, make sacrifices and compete….

    Give it a break do!
    Sir Gary is right of course, …but it is like blaming children for being ‘ill disciplined’ when they have been raised by indisciplined parents, indisciplined schools, indisciplined churches and under thieving political leadership…. What the hell else could we have expected…?

    We cannot even see a financial statement from the national sports bodies who get MILLIONS of dollars in free LOTTO money and other grants every damn year…..and no one is concerned about them…

    STOP PICKING ON THE DAMN PLAYERS…..at least they DO something….

  4. ac Avatar
    ac

    BUSH Shite is that all u have to say , “stop Picking on the Players”,

    Wuh dam those players command hefty money that is derived by the fans who attend the sport ,
    Therefore the fans have a right to demand a full and productive days work from the player
    Hey bro have you ever heard a boss hire a person and does not criticize their work performance when it becomes obvious that the worker is given less than his required worth

  5. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Ban she nuh David…..!!!
    …at least for a week…. 😉

  6. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    @ Bushie,

    The WICB has mis-managed West Indies cricket for too many years. It is 2015 and the world of sport has changed.

    The players are right to try and earn their ” retirement income” in the IPL and other T20 leagues.

    Sir Gary was more “fortunate” than most of his era.

  7. Gabriel Avatar
    Gabriel

    Blame Peter Short for destroying West Indies cricket…Just like Curtly Ambrose was the best and most intelligent bowler in West Indies cricket history,so also did Peter Short mash up for good,the game we once knew as West Indies cricket,the game which every test cricketing nation used to pay top dollar to see.Now we have guys that don’t worth what paddy shot at.A waste of time..and money.

  8. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Hants
    In what way was Sir Gary more “fortunate” than most of his era.

    The man got into Barbados team as a teen at a time when the whit man ruled, and blacks got in by merit.

    I am watching so called test batsmen who could not have got into any of the schoolboy teams that played 1st division cricket in the 60’s ; nor could thy get into many BCL teams at the time.

    It is true that the WICB has mis-managed West Indies cricket for too many years, and certainly the players should look to have their bread buttered where and when they can, but they can try to play sensible and disciplined cricket.

    In recent years while working in the islands, I have rarely seen a cricket game of any sort played

    Check the records and you will find that in regional cricket prior to the mid nineties the stars always shone in inter regional games and in local cricket. The so called stars dont worth what paddy shot at these days.

  9. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    How did Short destroy WI cricket?
    Who was it that got Waight fired?
    Who was it that thought that we didnt a trainer of his ability.

  10. MoneyBrain Avatar
    MoneyBrain

    There is virtually NO DEVELOPMENT System! We have a very long list of players 27yrs + and none have improved enough to make this team? For years WICB have been” looking to youth and the future” yet we did not take the supposedly core fellas to WC2015! We should have at least a couple Husseys by now where are they? The FC games must be at least 25 pa. Does any other team play less FC games than WI?

    The players also have questionable attitudes, some justified by poor management but some resulting from the big bucks to be made in IPL and just a plain lack of discipline/ understanding of the history of the game in the Cbean. Properly designed Contracts would help.

    Who are the “stars?” Bravo mediocre at best. Samuels always loved himself only? Mr Reliability, Chanders is finished.

  11. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    In my view, our players, either individually or as a team, are simply not good enough. Of course, administration is also hopeless, but the game is played on the field.

  12. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    What game is played on what field what Jeff….??!!

    The ‘game’ is all about selection, preparation, attitude and performance. 90% of it is LONG before we get to the field, and is the purview of ADMINISTRATION.

    First there is the QUALITY of players selected.
    If selection is a political issue based on how administrators are able to use their influence to get ‘home boys’ into the big money then the quality is shot….

    Then there is preparation…. Where the hell are the Cricket schools? the professional coaches, trainers, physiotherapists, psychiatrists ???? what have we invested in these..?
    Of course there is no need for this because the AIM is to just get ‘some big money’ for one’s nationals…

    Forget attitude … the common question is “how much am I getting…?”

    …so what the hell do we expect on the field? …the damn players are probably distracted by daydreaming about their bank balances…

    If the HEAD is bad, then it is FOLLY to demand high quality of the body. We need to focus on the ROOT of the damn problem – LEADERSHIP…not the symptoms…

  13. David Avatar
    David

    @Jeff & Bushie

    Perhaps it goes deeper. It exposes the fissures which have probably gotten wider in the last 20 years in the region at the Caricom/integration level.

  14. SavannahBoy Avatar
    SavannahBoy

    It may well be, in agreement with one of your observations, yes indeed the IQ/educational level has dropped and that some of the sharper, brighter ones – avhievers, have seen the light (“lights”) and quickly shifted priorities. I daresay that Sir Gary assertion should be placed on the members of the WICB and that irrelevant and detrimental management structure which is perpetuated – like with the players GIGO = literally: garbage in garbage out
    More anon

  15. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    Here we are in 2015 and still using the same “I feel he is going to be a good cricketer because he pelt out or hit a good score this evening while l my ingrunt donkey is hare at this match”

    Beyond the obvious technological inadequacies we are besieged with we have another layer of management non connectedness that is getting progressively worse.

    Mark Malonney to manage LIAT, Bjerkham on the Central Bank of Barbados certainly hot right horses for courses but a practice of mediocrity that is adhered to with such ubiquitous frequency that it is now a regional mantra, cricket included.

    What is the solution?

    Engage a “fixer”, a man, or woman, in the industry who has the experience to make the mechanisms work.

    It means two mechanisms one that revamps the board and the second to revamp the team and commensurately may need two HR resources.

    Send out a RFP for a suitably composed dual tiered mechanism which will operate for one year on a performance based contract where if the team performs they both get paid and, like the CEO of GM or some other serious success oriented company, they are compensated based on their performance

    So in the final configuration the newly constituted WICB will be run by a professional administrator aided by a cricket professional at the pitch level DRIVEN TO PERFORM BECAUSE THEIR SALARIES DEPEND ON IT,,

    Since that idea will not fly with the testosterone infected WICB notwithstanding its tumultuous history of 8 board presidents, 11 captains, 12 coaches and 7 chief executives within 10 years!!!

    Rally round the West Indies, as ever the empty battle cry sounded by impotent men, encircled by a band of marauding invaders composed incredibly of themselves, the theme of a Hollywood science fiction movie titled “I am the Enemy”

  16. Exclaimer Avatar
    Exclaimer

    @David October 24, 2015 at 6:53 AM,

    As always David you’re the voice of reason. Why are we focusing on a handful of young men whose only interest in the beautiful game gravitates around the accumulation of money?

    Why should we single them out as pariahs when our Caribbean politicians, businessmen, church leaders, et al have for many decades (since the time of Barrow) put in place a moral bar so low that you would have to be a fool not to follow suite.

    Why are we discussing the demise of West Indies cricket?

    Our lowly international cricket status simply reflects how thoroughly broken the Caribbean region is. Let’s be honest there is very little that functions well in this dysfunctional part of the world (The Caribbean).

    On a positive note let us focus more on our female population. The Caribbean female has a higher status compared to her female counterpart throughout the world. It is time for the Caribbean Negro male to stand up and pull his weight.

  17. David Avatar
    David

    @PUDRYR

    Your suggestion addresses the management of the entity WICB but in a real world context managing regional cricket read a failed Caricom/CSME context … insularity and moribund state makes executing a WICB enterprise almost impossible.

  18. de Ingrunt Word Avatar
    de Ingrunt Word

    @Jeff, absolutely have to agree with your brief assessment. The administration was considered inept back in the day – we all remember how they mishandled Packer; we all remember the inability to look ahead and properly manage the cash cow that was the great WI teams.

    So plain and simple as you prescribe despite lousy admin, dysfunction between islands, poor leadership and all that it’s still about ‘the talent on the field’. The examples are many of talented players performing despite the WICB and the WICBC.

    And @Gabriel I would love to hear how Short so damaged WI cricket.

    I have absolutely no brief for the man and I would also criticize him in part for some serious failures but to make your sweeping statement is off-kilter.

    Often he seemed to be a practical voice of reason back in those days. And as Dr GP alluded to perhaps a simple example of that was the debacle in England when Lara was ‘mandated’ to fly home in the middle of a tour by his political handlers to receive an award.

    Also another example of the inane overall political and societal leadership spoken above so eloquently.

    And the historical take away…. whereas Forbes Burnham galvanized behind Clive Lloyd to lead the WI and heralded a glorious period of WI supremacy because – thankfully – the man chosen was intelligent and was made of well stitched WI fabric, a similar campaign to anoint Brian Lara presaged wondrous individual feats but the definitive demise of that supremacy.

    So what can we say about life: the man who did more to destroy the political freedoms of these island states with his political assassination et al found his star who unified the islands. And the Trinis bek up things, AGAIN.

    And we think this is a 2015 problem….Oh lawd!

    In pre-modern speak the Trinis (Bravo et al) still doing ‘de dog’. And the Jamaicans just as complicit. Old wine, new bottles or what. Lollll.

    As Mr Bush Tea said many, many posts back, this WI cricket stuff is now a bare joke. A real ‘expletive’ joke.

  19. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    So are you admitting then David, that the whole idea of ‘West Indies’ cricket is a misnomer… and nothing but a nostalgic legacy of past days when the English ‘Lords’ put the ‘colonies’ together into a collective – so that they could cut our tails and prove their ‘superiority’?
    Of course that plan failed PRECISELY because REAL men like Frank Worrell recognised the aim and were COMMITTED to turning the tables on their colonial donkeys…

    Pray tell why we would even persist with that embarrassment – if we had any self-pride?

    There is no such thing as any ‘West Indies’ …(never was any damn way…) so no surprise that there is no patriotic commitment by anyone (except GP and Hants) to the shiite cricket.

    Up to Bushie, we would drop the longggg, boring, shiite game and focus on modern sports such as Athletics, Soccer, Tennis etc …and ESPECIALLY place resources and emphasis on Road Tennis and beach games like vollyball etc….

    LOL …. cricket shiite!!!

  20. David Avatar
    David

    @Bushie

    Yes!

    @ Dee Word

    Your position is outdated. Back in the day with all the dysfunction you mentioned there were support mechanisms that compensated.

  21. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    The players have been picked out of societies with the same attitudes and ethics. West Indies cricket has declined because our societies are on the decline. They are no different from the average Caribbean person and should not be expected to be. If we want them to be better we all have to become better. Name me a hundred people who you believe would behave more mature than the idiots who administer cricket and the young boys who play.

    And before you guys brush me off as a female who knows nothing about cricket let me tell you that my first international cricket match was the England tour when Lawrence Rowe made his triple century and Alvin Kallicharran made a century. My last international match was on the last one at Kensington against whom I can’t even remember. I don’t think I’ll be going back. I attend very few events in Barbados because they are usually mediocre and cricket has become even worse than mediocre.

  22. de Ingrunt Word Avatar
    de Ingrunt Word

    @David: “@ Dee Word…Your position is outdated. Back in the day with all the dysfunction you mentioned there were support mechanisms that compensated.”

    Ehhhh… can you wheel and come again. What in the name of practical commentary are you talking about re ‘outdated’ and more importantly “….with all the dysfunction .. there were support mechanisms that compensated.”

    You really need to send me the links of the historical tomes that you read, my bro, cause you does floor me wid some of your cryptic, scholarly sounding postulations.

    Help me out here. What support mechanisms?

    What exactly is dated 2015 that is not circa Eric Williams and ‘1 from 10’? See Trinis tek over BIM and region.

    What is not circa Forbes Burnham and his actions to get his man on top? See Jamaicans and Trinis wanna run WI cricket…did the TT boys not suggest most recently they be a Test team after a god run of success back five-six years?

    And too Forbes grievous political Machiavellian actions? See, the entire corrupt cadre.

    Are you being serious or as usual just trying to prod me..LOLLLL.

    Please David, lay on me from which historical writings your statements emanate.

  23. de Ingrunt Word Avatar
    de Ingrunt Word

    ‘Good run’… the Lord has little good to do wid WI cricket!

  24. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    It is true. There is no such thing as the West Indies except on paper. Almost nobody is interested in our shared history because almost nobody thinks that deeply any more. We live in the moment and mindless distraction or escapism is our way of life. We are also way too insular and individualistic. This insularity leads to a shortsightedness that will kill the goose whilst searching for its golden eggs.

  25. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    I think that we are hopelessly trying to make excuses for what is largely a mediocre bunch of players. Is our administration to be blamed because an opening batsman has not mastered the technique of playing back and across to swing bowling, while acutely aware of the position of his off stump? Or that our idea of good batsmanship is to (try to) hit every ball for four, irrespective of its merits? The basics of batting, bowling and fielding are absent and not even the Australian or Indian Cricket Boards with all their talent and resources would be able to bring it back.

    As I said earlier, admittedly the WICB sucks, but that’s only part of the problem and not, as Bushie and perhaps you, David, are trying to make out, all of it!

  26. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Donna
    Cricket had some meaning when it represented an opportunity for us to “burst massa’s donkey” and dispel white (and black) notions of white superiority.

    That myth has since been exploded in EVERY sport where blacks have been allowed to compete – with people like Bolt and the Williams girls actually establishing the diametrically OPPOSITE notion of superiority…

    Cricket therefore has no more meaning. It is now just a long, boring, expensive legacy of colonial thinking….where nuff money has been injected to maintain interest …and where those who excel in ‘money matters’ do best….

    If we had balls, we would have dropped the shiite right after Clive Lloyd and Malcolm Marshall had demonstrated to the world that the game was no challenge. Instead, we allowed the enemies to change the rules and to revise the playing field to our obvious disadvantage…

    But that is what brass bowls do….

  27. David Avatar
    David

    @Dee Word

    Society’s priorities in the 60s and 70s fueled a desire that allowed young men to actualize by embracing cricket. There was county cricket as well. We have seen a thinning of interest and resources at the primary level and this has negatively impacted on the end product read players. Not to mention the greed factor, playing for the love of the game or money – how has this impacted?

    @Jeff

    Did Ritchie Richardson go back and across to the swinging ball? In the past did our players not play with abandon with a horizontal blade? Did Richards, Haynes and a host of WI players not pick the ball from the middle and off and whip through midwicket with nauseating monotony? Maybe GP can intervene, remember watching him belting good bowling by co-opting hand eye movement with the feet lagging way behind if we want to retreat to mechanics.

  28. ac Avatar
    ac

    Can’t understand the necessary focus and importance of I Q .especially when one reflects on those days when cricket greats like Sir Gary IQ in reference to scholastic advantage was minimal
    Those greats acquired a high level of ethics which they brought to the game which cannot be bought or acquired with the signing of a contract

  29. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Jeff
    ….so who do you hold responsible for such inept players having been selected in the FIRST place….
    …who allows them to continue IN SPITE OF their hopelessness?
    …who makes the rules for selection, promotion, demotion, pay, retirement ….?

    Boss…
    Perhaps you are defensive because you think that we may want to extrapolate the cricket fiasco to our local legal and court systems …. and blame UWI for accrediting the lotta gangsters that we now have parading as lawyers, judges and registrars….

    LOL …. no man!!! Don’t worry about that….
    Bushie has been doing THAT now for decades…. 🙂

  30. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    Bushie,

    Massa still exists and he never really accepted the bussing o’ he backside. So Serena wins because she is a man. Bolt wins because he is on dope. And we won but that was an aberration. Now it is back to the normal order. Cricket is more of a thinking game than most physical sports. And we just can’t cut it because we can’t think they will say. Good for slap and tickle but nothing seriously mentally challenging.

    And the game was far from boring when we were on top and mixing style and flair with professionalism. It was actually electrifying. That is why the guys who actually played against us and were thrashed can’t help (and I’m sure they have tried) but acknowledge that cricket has lost much of its appeal with our demise. They remember who the fans came to see. So in changing the rules, the financial playing field and everything orchestrated to lead to our demise they have shot themselves in the foot. Unfortunately we have made ourselves sitting ducks and been shot through the heart as well.

    I

  31. David Avatar
    David

    @Donna

    An excellent last comment.

  32. de Ingrunt Word Avatar
    de Ingrunt Word

    Bush Tea, that is an interesting analysis at 9:08. Very difficult to grasp and understand in a realistic way, though.

    I know that a man of your sensibilities is simply being provocative by suggesting that “Cricket therefore has no more meaning” and “we would have dropped the shiite” but can then segue smoothly to “…where nuff money has been injected”.

    The amount of monies that the Laras, Bravos and Gayles are making can and will contribute to a significant uplifting of their communities if deployed well. And in that regard I applaud Gayle for the grassroots work he has started in Jam.

    All popular modern sport fits the model described for cricket’s “burst massa’s donkey” and there are a bariffle of examples where other Black sports stars adopted a positive stance like Gayle that clearly demonstrated how best to use that hard earned wealth to the society’s improvement.

    To wit we have one simple example of that and the opposite pathway to your startling recommendation.

    The former basketball star David Robinson has done some astounding work with some of his millions. He has developed programs in public education his IDEA Carver Academies to serve kids – principally Black and Hispanic from societies ‘undeserved’ areas – and his organization now boasts several properties that proudly proclaims that every one of their graduates will attend universities on graduation.

    This for children whose potential would have been lost in the shuffle of life’s vagaries. And for a system where it is absolutely unexpected that 100% of non-White/Asian kids from a high school class would graduate to college or other professional/technical schools

    Maybe Gayle and other monied regional stars will use a model like that adapted to their island’s needs to show us that as individualistic as cricket has become that there are now completely new avenues to success for the masses. Even more profound opportunities.

    When one door closes…we go and open others…not mock that closed door!

  33. Exclaimer Avatar
    Exclaimer

    @ David,

    I will second your last comment. Her comments were very incisive. I cannot think of a better word to use about West Indies cricket back in the days. Yes it was electric! The West indies brought exuberance to cricket like no other nation. Although I heard South Africa were equally explosive prior to them being expelled from the ICC.

    The English hypocrites reminisce how sad it is to see the demise of the West Indies. Yet when I was growing up I can remember how they absolutely detested our supremacy over them. The English being the English neutralised our potency by altering the rules. They also refused to recruit our players in their domestic league.

    Bush Tea you are right we should ditch this sport where Negros are forced to dress in white pantomime outfits. We should participate in those sports which are lucrative and where we can compete on an equal level.

  34. MoneyBrain Avatar
    MoneyBrain

    Bushie wrote,

    Up to Bushie, we would drop the longggg, boring, shiite game and focus on modern sports such as Athletics, Soccer, Tennis etc …and ESPECIALLY place resources and emphasis on Road Tennis and beach games like vollyball etc….

    LOL …. cricket shiite!!!

    Firstly Bushie, there is T20 and ODIs that are far from boring, excepting when the WI players refuse to take an intelligent, DISCIPLINED approach. Cricket is Bajan heritage personified and Bim stands to loose most from your intended course of abandoning the game. Bim is too small to build teams to compete globally. The colonists also encouraged soccer, athletics etc so if their input is to be extinguished we must create our own sports?

    Bushie, while you are correct about views of West Indian togetherness in Cricket, which few have totally supported for many years, the fact is together we stand a chance in certain sports like Cricket.

    Donna wrote, “They remember who the fans came to see. So in changing the rules, the financial playing field and everything orchestrated to lead to our demise they have shot themselves in the foot.”—-Donna the colonist have not been in control of Cricket for years, India has taken over that role as 1 Billion + market is by far the largest in Cricket. Please keep yourself up to date! The WI team was indeed great for 15 yrs, although the opposition at the time, especially Australia were in one of their weaker periods simultaneously.

  35. Exclaimer Avatar
    Exclaimer

    Take a look at this video that recalls the Windies rebel tour of Apartheid South Africa. It makes for sad viewing irrespective of your political stance.

  36. David Avatar
    David

    Thanks Exclaimer, the video captures the ‘passion’ long gone from the Caribbean cricket!

  37. de Ingrunt Word Avatar
    de Ingrunt Word

    @David, I say this with nuff respect but in an Artaxian way you does write ’nuff shiittee” sometimes for such a bright fellow. And ’nuff shiittee’ is categorized by lack of discernment of underlying logic/reasoning.

    I need to be crisp and just be prolix enough here.

    How does Richards’ excellent hand-eye coordinated ‘swiping’ or other stars problems with the swinging ball negate Jeff’s principal point that the skill of the players principally drives the narrative of WI team success?

    His remarks related to the lack of skill leading to failure. Period.

    Our former stars similar afflictions/deficiencies are irrelevant. It’s obvious they were able to overcome or suppress those faults and excel.

    One can ONLY be a star after dealing with flaws in your game. When you cannot achieve that consistently then you are NOT a star.

    Let me be further brief. The WI players of Clive’s era were just as GREEDY. It’s called feeding your family. Many were also ABSOLUTELY indifferent to the WI TEAM ethos. Clive Lloyd and success suppressed the latter and made the former a minor discussion point.

    Many of the WI players of this current generation are also VERY team spirited. But much more money is offered to them than ever offered to the others. So yes they are greedy too.

    Was it not the great Mike Holding you loathes T20 so much that he refuses money to be an announcer at the games?

    Was Mikey not being absolutely avaricious when he said that were he a player today that he would DEFINITELY play the T20 games. Is that GREED, feeding your family, hypocrisy ?? You tell me.

    Today players are certainly more militant due to the ineptness of the Board and have consequently elevated the greed issue as one of their most egregious faults. But when Sammy and team won that World T20 crown or Brown and his Bajan bro took them to victory in Champions League in England did we not see the bountiful pride of the WI collective?

    Halt with the simplistic tossing around of misleading and poorly defined epithets. It really does not fit a serious discourse.

    Of course if we just mekking sport on the BU rum-shop then your palaver is perfectly in order!!!

  38. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    Moneybrain,

    You almost made me curse yeah! Keep myself up to date????!!!!! Condescending twit! India has the money and has been calling SOME of the shots but the combined forces of the EUROPEANS AND THEIR DESCENDENTS have been behind most of the changes of which I speak. When are you going to look the actions of your race in the face and own them? What the heck is wrong with you? Don’t try that crap with me, man. I threw out the white man’s text books along with Custer and Columbus before my teenage years. I don’t swallow your chocolate coated shiite!

  39. David Avatar
    David

    @Dee Word

    The problem sometime with you is that you become too immerse in the theory. You need to broaden your view of the issue and realize it is not so much about talent (our players are talented and always had flaws but it is the power of the mind, the passion, the will and commitment to perform driven by pride of flag that has separated the two eras. If you take the time to watch the video posted you discern the fire in the belly. Attitude even in the worse of situation will carry you to the mountain top e.g. Roberts; a rabbit holding on to win a world cup game, Dujon who was accused of not moving to the line to the ball as a wicketkeeper BUT rejoiced in diving (staying horizontal) to collect balls.,, many other examples.

  40. Donna Avatar
    Donna

    This Moneybrain man is talking to a woman that lambasted Richie Benaud on Twitter and got him to admit that Ian Healy, Steve Waugh and Ricky Pointing were more ‘tiefing’ than Denesh Ramdin could ever be and is thinking he could get that shiite past me.

  41. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    This is an interesting and robust discourse for a Saturday morning.

    @David@9:11am

    Your observations are correct, but these men you name were players of extraordinary talent who were able to cock a snook at the basics because of their near miraculous hand -eye combination. Remember Sir Garry’s hip pocket catches? Kanhai’s falling hook? These are not in the “book”. But once the eyesight and reflexes go, as they inevitably will, then the player becomes quite ordinary and unable to reprise his earlier form. Viv was an example of this.

    @BushTea @9:16am

    So you are now going to ascribe blame to the selectors? Where is this abundant reservoir of batting or bowling talent from among whom we have chosen the wrong ones? Please note too that Cave Hill does not produce lawyers, only LLB graduates. Indeed, there used to be a course at the Law Schools in my day called Status, Rights and Responsibilities of the Legal Profession in which Ethics were taught. i believe that it is still there. If some of these lawyers of whom you speak did not have licenses to practice, they might very well otherwise have been choke-and-rob bandits somewhere.

    @Exclaimer@10:08am

    How about the shortened versions [ODI;T20] of the game where true pantomime outfits are worn? Should we drop those too?

  42. Jeff Cumberbatch Avatar
    Jeff Cumberbatch

    @David, what makes you think that “our players are talented”. Because they can play one or two shots and look good for an over or two? Or because they are West Indian players? the statistics do not bear out your point in any way.

  43. David Avatar
    David

    @Jeff

    Respect your view but you and Dee Word et al cannot begin to factor what a mind swollen by pride (confidence) can do to float the indomitable spirit of the cricketer of that era to confront/overcome whatever the challenge. You ask about how we measure talent pool/level? Check how we compare at under-19 and 23 level, even today.

  44. de Ingrunt Word Avatar
    de Ingrunt Word

    And David, again with respect you speak off the cuff too much. First up, that video is how old now? Maybe I have watched some or all of the Fire in Babylon video, from which I believe that was excerpted!

    I try my utmost to blend theory with the practical I have lived or read about. That concept brings me to a completely different position to you sir.

    Here we are talking about “our players are talented and always had flaws but it is the power of the mind, the passion, the will and commitment to perform driven by pride of flag that has separated the two eras…”

    And you have the temerity, lack of discernment or whatever you want to call it to cite a video of a player and group who went to South Africa as a frigging ‘HONORARY WHITE’ in order to feed their famililes and yet you can speak about ‘PASSION… DRIVEN BY PRIDE” etc.

    David that is called WTF!!!!!. Excuse me but I really can’t think of another word.

    Let me leave you with your own wisdom “The problem sometime with you is that you become too immerse in the theory.”

    Please read and discern your remarks before you post so that they are not so absolutely contradictory!!!

    As I often say you are much brighter than that.

  45. MoneyBrain Avatar
    MoneyBrain

    Donna wrote,
    You almost made me curse yeah! Keep myself up to date????!!!!! Condescending twit! India has the money and has been calling SOME of the shots but the combined forces of the EUROPEANS AND THEIR DESCENDENTS have been behind most of the changes of which I speak. When are you going to look the actions of your race in the face and own them? What the heck is wrong with you? Don’t try that crap with me, man. I threw out the white man’s text books along with Custer and Columbus before my teenage years. I don’t swallow your chocolate coated shiite!

    My race is the HUMAN Race! Anyway the Indians are benefiting financially and dont waste time bellyaching, what is the WI doing??????????????? Are the Indians white too??? The Cbean people have lost their will to be Disciplined and Determined in many areas, maybe they have been reading the wrong textbooks and following Custer and Colombus.

    The actions of my race are quite irrelevant to WI Cricket, indeed it is the lack of strategic action by the two other dominant races in the Cbean that has led to miserable performance by the WI team. When Whitey recommended certain changes why didnt the WICB work with India, Pakistan, Bangla, SL etc to maintain the status quo? Why did’nt geniuses like yourself lead the WICB, with your OWN devised textbook thinking, to viable successful strategies?

    So whose chocolate coated shoite are you chewing and swallowing?

  46. David Avatar
    David

    @Dee Word

    The time stamp of the video is irrelevant to support the point of the passion West Indians of that era held for cricket to compare with current. Do you hold the same view of Sobers when he visited Rhodesia at the time? Watching that video brought tears to the eyes how we treated players who wanted to peddle their skills to the world. Yes punish them but… Today we use the same argument to support players who want to play IPL for money and betray commitment to country. Can you or anyone gainsay what that tour did to furthering the cause of humanity? Of the 10 Barbadians Moseley is a coach with the successful women’s team, Titmus Armstrong worked with the BTA for many years, Trotman is a senior team coach etc…time heals.

  47. David Avatar
    David

    Please don’t let this discussion denigrate to White or Black, to do so is myopic.

  48. TheObserver Avatar
    TheObserver

    If this was a cricket match, then Bushie is displaying excellent batting technique by pouncing on loose balls and dispatching them for sixes; covering up for better balls and gently pushing them back down the pitch.

    The exit of national/regional pride in our cricketing skills began when the first set of professionals went with Packer.
    Our replacement teams (second tier cricketers) gave it a good try, but they did not get the opportunity to play and test themselves against these elite players.

    I believe that one has to take the size of the population into consideration. Let’s say it takes the WI ten years to create a team with the equivalent of the 3W’s, a Sobers, a Lloyd etc., then India with a population that it is several time ours (let’s say 10 for ease of calculation) could generate such a team every year. By playing against each other on the national level, they will be playing a high level of cricket at all times.

    The next generation of WI super cricketers who arrives on the pitch every decade will be outclassed from the very beginning, as they will meet by a well-seasoned and battle tested group of opponents. The death knell of WI cricket has been sounding for years. Thank God the exploits of the 3W’s still lives on in our mind and gives us hope.

    Cricket is still a team game and whilst we can point to the “inadequacies” of one or two players a greater fix is needed. It is like patching two holes in a tire that has 11 punctures. I know that some will point to Asia’s population and it’s lack of athletic prowress as a counter to my argument, but in athletics Asia is on the march.

  49. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    MoneyBrain October 23, 2015 at 11:58 PM #
    There is virtually NO DEVELOPMENT System! We have a very long list of players 27yrs + and none have improved enough to make this team?
    THE DEVELOPMENT SYSTM IN THE PAST WAS TO PLAY NUFF BAT AND BALL
    Richards had a penchant to hit the ball thru midwicket that confounded bowlers (execpt Garner) why? he had practiced the same out of necessity as a child so as not to get out hit pailling. THE KEY WORD IS PRACTICE
    Chanders is finished. NO SIMMONS FINISH CHANDERS
    re we should ditch this sport where Negros are forced to dress in white pantomime outfits. BOVINE EXCREMENT! WHY NOT PLAY PROPERLY AND WIN AGAIN!

    Jeff Cumberbatch October 24, 2015 at 6:19 AM #
    our players, either individually or as a team, are simply not good enough. Of course, administration is also hopeless, but the game is played on the field.
    THIS STATEMENT CAN NOT BE REFUTED
    WHEN WE WRE ON TOP OUR PLAYERS WERE THE BEST
    Clearly CRICKET IS PLAYED ON THE FIELD and the REALLY TALENTED HIT THE GROUND RUNNING
    c.f Kallicharan, Rowe, and specially Haynes, who in his first two international innings didnt scratch around but put licks in Thompson as if he was a BCL net bowler.
    Kallicharan, Rowe, and Haynes etc were all GRAT PLAYERS BEFORE COUNTY CRICKET
    Today we have a situation where our “leading batsman” pads up to a ball on his stumps—and then is so surprised he appeals the obvious verdict of lbw.
    You have opening batsmen who cant hook and play the short ball.

    Exclaimer October 24, 2015 at 7:33 AM #
    Our lowly international cricket status simply reflects how thoroughly broken the Caribbean region is.
    PLASE KINDLY NOTE THAT THE Caribbean region was just as broken WHEN CONSTANTINE AND TH OTHER PIONEER PLAYERS WER ON SHOW
    PLASE KINDLY NOTE THAT THE Caribbean region was just as broken WHEN The 3 W’s SOBERS, KANHAI, BUTCHER ETC PLAYED
    de Ingrunt Word October 24, 2015 at 8:36 AM #
    @Jeff, absolutely have to agree with your brief assessment. The administration was considered inept back in the day – we all remember how they mishandled Packer; we all remember the inability to look ahead and properly manage the cash cow that was the great WI teams.
    So plain and simple as you prescribe despite lousy admin, dysfunction between islands, poor leadership and all that it’s still about ‘the talent on the field’. The examples are many of talented players performing despite the WICB and the WICBC.
    And @Gabriel I would love to hear how Short so damaged WI cricket.
    I have absolutely no brief for the man and I would also criticize him in part for some serious failures but to make your sweeping statement is off-kilter.
    Often he seemed to be a practical voice of reason back in those days. And as Dr GP alluded to perhaps a simple example of that was the debacle in England when Lara was ‘mandated’ to fly home in the middle of a tour by his political handlers to receive an award.
    Also another example of the inane overall political and societal leadership spoken above so eloquently.
    And the historical take away…. whereas Forbes Burnham galvanized behind Clive Lloyd to lead the WI and heralded a glorious period of WI supremacy because – thankfully – the man chosen was intelligent and was made of well stitched WI fabric, a similar campaign to anoint Brian Lara presaged wondrous individual feats but the definitive demise of that supremacy.
    So what can we say about life: the man who did more to destroy the political freedoms of these island states with his political assassination et al found his star who unified the islands. And the Trinis bek up things, AGAIN.
    And we think this is a 2015 problem….Oh lawd!
    In pre-modern speak the Trinis (Bravo et al) still doing ‘de dog’. And the Jamaicans just as complicit. Old wine, new bottles or what. Lollll.
    As Mr Bush Tea said many, many posts back, this WI cricket stuff is now a bare joke. A real ‘expletive’ joke.
    de Ingrunt Word October 24, 2015 at 8:36 AM #
    @Jeff, absolutely have to agree with your brief assessment.
    And the historical take away…. whereas Forbes Burnham galvanized behind Clive Lloyd to lead the WI and heralded a glorious period of WI supremacy because – thankfully – the man chosen was intelligent and was made of well stitched WI fabric, a similar campaign to anoint Brian Lara presaged wondrous individual feats but the definitive demise of that supremacy.
    CANT BE DENIED
    . And the Trinis bek up things, AGAIN.
    CANT BE DENIED AGAIN.
    The Trinis help mash up cricket twice recently 1. LARA could not wait to be captain vn though he could not lead men. Also he got the fittest trainer Waight fired 2 Recently the vindictive Simmons got rid of Chandrpaul so the young incompetent players with averages less than 10 in FC cricket could play.

    Jeff Cumberbatch October 24, 2015 at 9:01 AM #
    I think that we are hopelessly trying to make excuses for what is largely a mediocre bunch of players. Is our administration to be blamed because an opening batsman has not mastered the technique of playing back and across to swing bowling, while acutely aware of the position of his off stump?
    WHO CAN DENY THIS BUT A MORON
    HOW CAN YOU REACH THE LEVL OF “TEST CRICKETER” and don’t know the basics noted above
    HOW CAN YOU REACH THE LEVL OF “TEST CRICKETER WITH AN AVERAGE OF 10 in FC CRICKET< WITH NO CENTURIES AND NO CENTURY AGAINT BARBADOS
    You have players who when defending cant get the ball of the square. I thought I was hallucinating when I remembered players in my village defending the ball close to the boundary, when some ten years ago Rawle Brancker joined some of us playing geriatric tape ball cricket in Glitter Bay was defending just as I had remembered it long ago.

    David October 24, 2015 at 9:11 AM #
    @Dee Word
    We have seen a thinning of interest and resources at the primary level and this has negatively impacted on the end product read players.
    REALLY. THER IS MORE ORGANIZED PRIMARY SCHOOL AND YOUTH CRICKET TODAY THAN EVeR BEFORE >
    @Jeff
    Did Ritchie Richardson go back and across to the swinging ball?
    HOW ELSE WOULD HE HAVE SURVIVED SIR? BACK AND ACROSS IF TH BALL IS NOT FULL IS BASIC
    rE In the past did our players not play with abandon with a horizontal blade? Did Richards, Haynes and a host of WI players not pick the ball from the middle and off and whip through midwicket with nauseating monotony?
    THY DID THIS WELL BCAUSE THY PRACTICED IT
    rE Maybe GP can intervene, remember watching him belting good bowling by co-opting hand eye movement with the feet lagging way behind if we want to retreat to mechanics.

    IT IS TRUE THAT THS PLAYRS HAD GOD HAND EYE CO_ORDINATION, BUT THY PRACTICED AND THUS BECAME CONFIDENT AT WHAT THY DID
    I heard with my two ears tell a man I USED TO WALK BOUT BARBADOS LOOKING FOR FAST BOWLRS LIKE YOU TO LICK BOUT.

  50. David Avatar
    David

    @GP

    Thanks for your intervention done in the same way you treated bowling back in the day…lol.

    Do you know how many females coach organize teams at the primary level today Sir?

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