Lamb to the WICB Slaughter
Submitted by DeeWord
Michael Holding has been forthright and unrelenting towards both the players and the WICB re the strike action out of India. Below is snap-shot of his latest remarks and those of other former players as a back-drop to the current WI cricket news-cycle.
There are questions re governance of our cricket, the integrity of the cricket leaders and best way forward for our young players. What does the future hold for a board of directors and team that has been mired in controversy and stuck in mediocrity over the last 20 years? Should we accept that the ‘Fire in Babylon’ days or even a 75% replica will never again be achieved? Will WI cricket now languish forever as better only than Bangladesh and Zimbabwe in Tests and ODIs?
And if so WHY can’t we find a way forward to success?
Referring to the Task Force Report Holding bowled a devastating series of deliveries.
HIS FIRST DELIVERY to the WICB straw-man was a gentle warm-up ball: “The chairman of selectors has pointed out that the new captain, Jason Holder, is younger, and that they see him as the person to take this team forward.”
And then on possible victimisation, A FASTER BALL WHIZZING PAST THE NOSE : “ Bravo has not just been relieved of the captaincy. He, along with Darren Sammy and Kieron Pollard, isn’t even in the squad to play the five games. Now while arguments can be put forward for the reasons to seek a younger captain, however flimsy those might be, what can you say about leaving the three gentlemen mentioned above out of the squad?”
Ralph Thorne the attorney who represented the players in their dispute with the board said ominously: “The three players have suffered an insidious victimisation.”
So take a look at the big-picture perspective based on the comments attributed to chairman of selectors Clive Lloyd made following the aborted tour of India: “I spoke to them on every occasion, I told them what was the situation …they didn’t listen. I’m very disappointed they didn’t. It was just a dialogue that was needed. I told them to play and assess the situation . I don’t think it was the intelligent thing to do. I am very disappointed.”
SO IS IT VICTIMISATION ?
HOLDING’S BALL THUDDED INTO THE WICKET-KEEPER’S GLOVES, “that is fairly obvious,” and continued, “Once again, the WICB has commissioned a report… and used what it felt like using to suit its own agendas. Yes, the report did apportion some blame to the players, in particular the seniors… [BUT] In its opening salvo, the task force blamed the WICB and the West Indies Players’ Association (WIPA) for creating the problem.”
In simple terms, Holding was highlighting that the Task Force had lambasted the bad management practices by the WICB executives. From the opening paragraph of the Report he noted their remarks: ‘We are of the view that the overriding excuse for the players withdrawing their labour was the attempted imposition of new contractual terms of employment on the players negotiated between the board and WIPA, which the players saw for the first time after they got to India. There is something fundamentally wrong in sending a team to faraway places with only a historical view of their terms of employment and then to radically change those terms after they arrive in that distant place.’
THIS IS THE GLARING STARE DOWN AFTER THE DELIVERY. He said, “If that doesn’t clearly state that WIPA and the WICB created the problem then I am missing something. But once again, players are being victimised and punished, and I have yet to hear about any repercussions for those who created the problem in the first place.”
HOLD THAT GLARE: We are yet to hear about any repercussions for those who created the problem in the first place!
Now back in his day there would have been a buzz around the ground as the crowd got ready to herald the next ball and reasoned this build would result in stumps being cat-spraddled ; he doesn’t disappoint here either:
“Obviously questions have been asked of the selectors. One volunteered the information that the three were left out because they wanted to have a look at younger cricketers leading up to the World Cup… Narsingh Deonarine, who has been selected in the squad, is older than the three who have been left out.” BOWLED. COMPREHENSIVELY BEATEN AND BOWLED.
HOLDING TURNED AT THE TOP OF HIS MARK AND STARTED IN AGAIN: “ Another argument put forward is that they looked at the stats, and the cricketers left out weren’t measuring up…Bravo was just selected for the ICC ODI Team of the Year for 2014; that is the team selected from among all the ODI cricketers in the world. Bravo can make that team, but his “stats” aren’t good enough to make the West Indies side? That being the case, I think the ICC should just hand the World Cup trophy to West Indies instead of playing the tournament, as they have one hell of a team.”
RADIO COMMENTATOR: OUT. Holding is on fire here today… the wicket keeper and slip cordon are in trouble back there from those cartwheeling stumps; he has completely blown over another WICB batsman with extreme pace and accuracy. He is on a hat-trick.
HOLDING GLIDES IN, “One of the recommendations made by the task force… was, ‘The WICB must now build pillars of trust and respect with the players who are the board’s employees. In this process, WIPA and the senior players have a very real role to play.’ Folks, that was recommendation No. 1. Is this how the WICB intends to build trust and respect?” CROWDS ROARS. YORKER. BOWLED HIM.
Now all pumped up, HE GOES BACK TO START HIS FINAL DELIVERY . “When this fiasco started in India, I wrote that the WICB had learnt nothing over the years. I pointed out that players who were happy to take up the mantle of representing the region when previous players went on strike were now ready to emulate the earlier cricketers and strike themselves. Now the WICB is looking to replace the ‘troublemakers’ – one of whom, Darren Sammy, was seen as a ‘board man/ not long ago – with new players. But you can bet your bottom dollar that these new players will soon become disenchanted and start rumblings against the board in the not-too-distant future”.
As Holding asserts, the same carousel starts all over again as a young neophyte still finding his way in the WI team and too in international cricket has been tasked to lead this struggling ODI team.
Clive Lloyd was fulsome in his praise for the new captain Jason Holder: “We know he will continue to grow and demonstrate leadership. He has a very good cricketing brain and has the makings of a very good leader… [he is] one of the good young players who we believe will form part of the long-term future of West Indies cricket”.
At 23, Holder is in fact almost the same age of another novice captain, South African Greame Smith. He was also asked to lead his country after a crisis and like Holder was not yet an established and settled member of the team. He started his tenure with double centuries in his third and fourth test as captain. Maybe it’s a good omen that Holder starts his captaincy career against the same SA. Time will tell! But certainly, SA Cricket then was absolutely more stable than WI cricket is currently.
Ezra Moseley the former WI and Barbados fast bowler and Holder’s mentor & coach at St. Michael School is very positive. “From what I know of Jason Holder, I think he’ll handle the challenge pretty well.” In fact, Moseley always expected Holder to become a WI team captain. He said, “last year, after he was already in the West Indies team, I told the St Michael scorer that he would soon become West Indies captain. I wasn’t joking.”
According to Tony Cozier, Bryan Davis, a West Indies and T&T opener of the 1960s said, “the young captain doesn’t have time to get experience on the field of play and bond with his team. If you were thinking about a transition to youth, that should have happened after the World Cup.”
And a former chairman of selectors Mike Findley offered a similar perspective, “I would have thought they would have given him a chance to develop as a player before they thrust upon him the responsibility of captaincy of a West Indies team that is really struggling. They have pushed him into the firing line too early. It’s bound to affect the young man. I hope he is strong enough to cope.”
But let Mike Holding complete that final delivery and his devastating over: “A… knowledgeable man…defined madness as doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result. I leave you readers to determine what you think then defines the people running the WICB. That has been the board’s behaviour for years now. It’s time to change the culture of the board, and it’s obvious that change won’t come from within.”
EXACTLY. This madness will not stop unless the stakeholders in every island’s cricket board make it happen and get a change in the WICB governance method. Will stats quo remain the same after the next round of WICB elections? Your voice is needed.
YOU, MR MEMBER OF BCA OR JCA OR ANTIGUA CRICKET ASSOC. YOU NEED TO BE THE AGENT OF CHANGE.
Barbados Underground 
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It is obvious the WICB wants to rebuild, finally. A team is more than reviewing stats. Have a look at what England did to Petierson and Australia to Symmonds. The lose end is the inability of the WICB to morph into a relevant structure. Cameron met with TWO Caricom prime ministers to resolve the latest dispute but he obviously could not sell the position to his Board.
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We are sick and tired of all the actors in the WICB(C) and the Caribbean space in total. There are no heroes here, on neither side. Whether it is the WICB(C), its directors, commentators like Holding, selectors, executive managers, the political elites, or money grabbers like Lloyd or Richards who are prepared to carry water for misguided factions within and outside the Board.
All kinds of class cleavages, old school ties mentalities, personal greed, and factional loyalties, classism are more important than the Caribbean as an entity. Sooner or later this colonial game will die in the Caribbean and we hope that day comes soon. The Caribbean have already voted with their feet by staying away from the best games. Undaunted, the regional manages are insisting they can run this game without spectators. What idiots!
That these miscreants could drift aimlessly from pillar to post as try try to perfect what Thorne called a ‘gentle ruthlessness’ is apocryphal. Not that West Indian lawyers are much different to these norms of anti-developmentalism. They are central to it.
We also have political elites who are no better. These politicos have indebted the Caribbean people in an enterprise which is even more oligarchical, dictatorial and backward than themselves. Certainly, they must be a way to cleanse these elements genetically! But that might involve the destruction of the body politic.
In all this our biggest disappointment has been Clive Lloyd. A man who went through all this before but as a water boy for interests, not only at the regional level but in Guyana as well, he is prepared to go to any lengths to satisfy personal greed.
None of these interests care about cricket per se, the elevation of regional unity or the exertion of soft power in the international space. We say FUCK off to them all!
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If the WICB wanted to REALLY look like jackasses then they would have sent the same set of players who embarrassed them, the region, themselves and professional cricket in India, back on this new tour….
Lotta shiite
First of all – Cricket (as we knew it in the 80’s), like Unionism, CARICOM and other initiatives of that era…. IS DEAD.
Secondly, like most dying things, it has attracted a lotta parasites, pests and scavengers at all levels.
So the Board is a collection of vision-less parasites
The selectors are there to protect the players from THEIR islands…
The Coach is there because “other teams have a coach”…
….but when paid, “professional” players can walk out in the middle of an international engagement because they get “vex” (with THEIR OWN union)…… Shiite man… OF COURSE we should not victimize them….
LOL
We could always do like we would do in Barbados – and promote Bravo to the Board…..
….brass bowls!!!!
Look…
We could either:
1) SCRAP the whole shiite, and REINVENT a model to suit cricket in the 21st century…
2) Accept that we are lucky to be even at the level of Zimbabwe and Bangladesh …and continue with our mediocrity
or..
3) Continue to fool ourselves that with a little tweak here and there we will regain our former glory….
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One of the biggest events to have occurred in recent times was the removal of Tony Cozier from the commentators panel by the WICB which evoked little response by the pundits. This mess has occurred after regional governments have spent millions to prepare stadia and infrastructure pre World Cup 2007.
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@ Deeword
Well written article.
I cannot understand how anyone can blame the players (subcontractors) when the WICB is incompetent and WIPA complicit.
Let’s look at the following analogy:
A company has a team of subcontractors who have been working for $100 per hour as per a contract between themselves and the company for a period of time agreed by their union.
The company receives a new contract from another client in Trinidad and discusses and agrees with the Union to reduce the hourly wages to $30 per hr (70% less).
Upon the subcontractors of the company arriving in Trinidad having not been told by either the company or their union before leaving that their were going to be a major change in pay, they receive upon arriving in Trinidad an email detailing the drastic reduction in pay of 70%.
Their Supervisor then tries to make contact with their union to highlight and have the matter resolved, their union do not budge and they continued working for several days with the hope the matter would be resolved as per usual agreement.
With no favourable response from the union who benefits from payment via the subcontractors the Supervisor in a last ditch effort contacts a Director of the company with again no favourable response.
Any subcontractor/employee under these conditions would would have felt like they were being ROBBED and both their union and the company working in collusion.
Supposed each subcontractor was to have received $10,000 (100 hrs x $100) being their expectation when leaving the island as per the norm and then realizing they were now to be paid $3000 (100hrs x $30) for the same work.
This is what the players/subcontractors had to deal with.
THIS WAS LOWDOWN by both WICB (company) and WICB (union) and definitely POOR MANAGEMENT PRACTICE directed at the players (subcontractors).
Anyone of us could put ourselves in their shoes and see how you would have reacted let’s forget the fact that they are cricketers.
It is the principle and how effective organisations are properly managed.
If there was proper accountability there should also be sacking of WICB directors and WIPA for poor management and underhand business practices.
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David re TC on panel, but was that just a process of father time moreso than anything else?
Just asking, because it seemed to me that TC by his own admission and comments has stepped back from his once very extensive travel and commentary duties due to the vagaries of time and physical issues. He has had some publicized health problems.
Undoubtedly his skill and sharp brain are still intact but physically his body has demanded he slow down.
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@Pacha
Agree with a lot of your last comment, many of us continue to analyze the problems of West Indies cricket by pegging it to what transpired in India recently.
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@Dee World
Your comment re TC would have merit if he did not make himself available. It is how a decision is taken. Think BBC and John Arlott. Would NEVER have occurred!
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@ David
Yes. But be careful. Indian was just the most recent in a long history of more of the same. It’s just a matter of time before we have the next example of gross mismanagement. So in some ways it is wrong to concentrate on the Indian incident. We have to go beyond that detail and see the broader malady. The cancer that is at the heart of the WICB(C).
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Regarding the appointment of young Holder, it is one thing to be appointed as an inexperience Captain if the team is of relative strength and have sensible senior players. What we have here is …
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@ David
We happen to know more than a little about team roles, dynamics. And we will tell you now that Holder will fail. To begin with he is only now establishing his own performances, consistently. But as some blue eyed boy, he is barely being used by self-interested individuals to prove a point. He reminds us of Richardson who was made to play a similar role. We give him a year, at most. His personal performances will start to wane. Because he is being imposed, he will not attract the respect of others……………….In those circumstances, it is impossible to lead. Only on a modern plantation can that management culture work. And the WICB(C) is a modern slave plantation.
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@David December 26, 2014 at 10:47 AM….
Ok, thanks for the clarification I was not aware that he had made himself available.
As I noted I was aware that he had definitely reduced his workload of commentary stints and more recently was not 100%.
Clearly TC should be a part of any WI cricket commentary panel until he can’t see if he makes himself available to perform.
He is professional and proud enough to know when he is unable to perform.
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Anthony December 26, 2014 at 10:38 AM #
yOUR ANALOGY IS Well written AND WELL ARGUED.
tHE WICB HAS VICTIMISED TONY COZIER BECAUSE HE HAS PERENNIALLY AND PERSISTENTLY SPOKEN THE TRUTH ABOUT THE BOARDS MISMANAGEMENT OF CRICKET.
THIS IS THE SORT OF VICTIMIZATION THAT HAS DESTROYED OUR COUNTRY AND THE REGION
TELLING THE TRUTH IS ANATHEMA, DESPITE THE FACT THAT WE WERE TAUGHT BY OUR PARENTS AND TEACHERS SO TO DO.
MANY OF US ON THIS BLOG KNOW WHAT IT IS TO GET A CUT TAIL FOR TELLING TALES(lies)
tHE WICB HAS OBVIOUSLY VICTIMIZED THE TRIO THAT HAVE BEEN DROPPED.
HOWEVER, IF THE TRUTH BE TOLD, THESE THREE MORONS ARE CLEARLY MERCENERIES NOW, AND THEIR STATS ARE POOR!
IN 1974 WHEN LLOYD TOOK OVER THE CAPTAINCY (SOBERS & KANHAI) TWO EX CAPTAINS AND MEN WITH GREAT EXPERIENCE WHO HAD RENDERED YEOMEN SERVICE TO WEST INDIES CRICKET WERE DROPPED.
IF YOU CAN DROP SOBERS AND KANHAI FROM THE WINDIES CRICKET TEAM- EVEN IN THIER OLD AGE- YOU CAN DROP THE THREE MERCENARY MORONS
WHEN RICHARDSON TOOK OVER THE TEAM IN 91 RICHARDS DUJON AND GREENIDGE WERE DROPPED
IF YOU CAN DROP ICHARDS DUJON AND GREENIDGE YOU CAN DROP THE THREE MERCENARY MORONS
ITS TIME FOR CHANGE WITH NEW SELECTORS AND SERIOUS YOUNG PLAYERS
NOW WE NEED A NEW BOARD
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@David and Pacha…”many of us continue to analyze the problems of West Indies cricket by pegging it to what transpired in India recently”.
I would suggest that the mis-analysis is in that statement.
For every article written from which you can draw your inference there are two or three more which see the Indian tour matter as just the latest act in the dysfunction that is WI cricket; not as the source or peg to the problem.
Mike Holding’s latest article was one that saw India as a mere additional indignity and was used above for that reason.
He highlights the tremendous long term deficiencies of the WICB, WIPA and the players in his scathing remarks on the Indian issue and more importantly show that going forward things will continue unless deep and fundamental change is made.
I appreciate the sense of dread but please don’t highlight poor analysis and in the same breath show it also.
@ Pacha…In all this our biggest disappointment has been Clive Lloyd. A man who went through all this before but as a water boy for interests,.. he is prepared to go to any lengths to satisfy personal greed.———-
Interestingly annoying analysis. A man who I would imagine is financially stable enough that he does not need this job or could work other places in or out of cricket being labelled ‘a water boy’ because he still tries vigorously to help WU cricket.
Disagree with the man re selection or other maters surely but how absolutely petty and ridiculous.
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@GP
Why do you think they recalled Sammy of the trio to play in the SA ODIs?
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@DeeWord
Reread the statement. It was meant to say that the problems in WI cricket did not begin in India recently.
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rE
So take a look at the big-picture perspective based on the comments attributed to chairman of selectors Clive Lloyd made following the aborted tour of India: “I spoke to them on every occasion, I told them what was the situation …they didn’t listen. I’m very disappointed they didn’t. It was just a dialogue that was needed. I told them to play and assess the situation . I don’t think it was the intelligent thing to do. I am very disappointed.”
THESE GUYS WERE STUPID NOT TO LISTEN TO LLOYD
BETTER MEN THAN THEY HAD TO LISTEN TO LLOYD AND WE HAD A SUCCESFULL TEAM
THE PROBLEM IN THE CARIBBEAN TO DAY IS THAT WE DONT HAVE FOLK WORTHY OF BEING LISTENED TO AND WE HAVE MORONS WHO DONT LISTEN TO OR FOLLOW WISE ADVICE
WHO THE HELL YOU THINK YOU ARE NOT LISTENING TO THE CHIEF SELECTOR—ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU CANT PLAY CONSISTENT CRICKET?
SO WHEN THE CHIEF SELECTOR DONT PICK YOU FOR ANY REASON, WHAT CAN YOU DO? APPEAL TO RALPH AND RALPH?
WHEN LLOYD IS IN CHARGE…..WHEN HE SAYS SO, ITS SO
WHEN IN 81 THE LIMPING GREENIDGE WAS LIMPING AND DECLARED HIMSELF UNFIT TO PLAY, LLOYD TOLD HIM YOU WILL PLAY OR GO BACK HOME.
DONT GET ME WRONG, I THINK THAT THE BOARD HANDLED THINGS INCORRECTLY, BUT YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE COACH AND CHIEF SELECTOR , ESPECIALLY WHEN ITS CLYDE LLOYD
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@Pachamama December 26, 2014 at 11:14 AM #
How can you be so negative of a young man. This is how life progresses young people take over from older folks and life continues. Why will Holder be a failure? He has just as much quality at his tender age as any of the other players including Bravo and Sammy who are nearly a decade older than him. Holder must be supported to the fullest. He is not liming under a tree on a block planning to rob somebody or selling drugs and renting illegal guns. This is a young man who has taken the correct path to bettering himself and nation building. This is a young man we must be proud of and will on to reach greater heights.
Holder the Braithwaite boys, Carter etc. are the future. With persistence, patience and a bit of luck they may start West Indies climb back up the rankings. The present lot have failed to move the needle. Time to move on. Give youth a chance. Old people like you should know better.
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RE David December 26, 2014 at 11:45 AM #
@GP
Why do you think they recalled Sammy of the trio to play in the SA ODIs?
1 PLAIN SIMPLE COMMON SENSE.
2 AS THE BOARD’S LACKEY SOME ONE BEG FOR HIM
GOOD QUESTION DAVID BUT A BETTER QUESTION IS HOW MANY OF THE FIVE GAMES WILL HE PLAY. wILL HE BE “injured” OR JUST PICKED AS 12TH MAN AS DERYCK MURRAY HUMILIATED THE GREAT MALCOLM MARSHALL IN THE 91/92 WORLD CUP
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@GP
Agree you have to give way to the leader who by his record (Lloyd) would have earned the right.
@waiting
What you have posted is emotional BS. The success of an captain of a team is defined by a hell of a lot more than being conferred the title.
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Happy Xmas Barbados! December 26, 2014 at 11:49 AM #
@Pachamama December 26, 2014 at 11:14 AM #
ABSOLUTELY! THIS IS WHAT LLOYD STARTED TO DO AS CAPTAIN IN 1974 AND THAT IS WHAT HE INTENDS TO DO AGAIN AS CHIEF SELECTOR
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Looking at the current match. South Africa 262/2 after being put into bat, again. Why would any sensible team put in the opposition again after doing this last time and they made nearly 600 and beat us in 3 days, two to one. Brassbowls throughout the system!
We would really have to lack confidence in our batting. Or the batting frighten for the South African fast bowlers. At this rate the series is done. South Africa will sweep. But the Board will never see this as their failure and resign en mass.
In any event it seems that good batting wickets for others are devilish for ours. As if we are made to play on two different pitches. All the Boards should all resign and commit mass suicide!
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@GP
This is a debatable point but Lloyd’s success was born out of a peculiar set of circumstances of which Packer was a big part.
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End of Day 1 South Africa 270/2
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@Pacha
You claim to understand what is happening in WI cricket yet you focus on the decision to send in SA?
If WI batted first here is what would have happened, WI all out 175 and SA 100-1 at stumps.
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@David December 26, 2014 at 12:08 PM…Lloyd’s success was born out of a peculiar set of circumstances of which Packer was a big part.—–
David, I agree with part of your remark but I am intrigued by the Packer part.
Are you talking about the bigger profile that Packer gave ODI and directly/indirectly heralded the advent of WI swash-bucklers getting a modicum of initial recognition and appeal.
Please elaborate on the big part that Packer played in the LLoyd WI ‘s team success.
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@ David
Point taken! So why waste time spinning the toss, then. LOL
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@DeeWord
The objective of the team was not obfuscated by island insularity and politics.
The leadership was united with Lloyd on and off the field.
The team within the Packer structure was able to attract the best ancillary staff which addressed cricket and non cricket needs.
There was a greater focus on reward recognition and less on politically motivated arrangements. The best team played and those who aspired to be selected knew the golden rule…perform! Integral to performance was the element of the importance of team.
There were other ingredients…
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@Pacha
There is the future tours obligation to fulfill.
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David December 26, 2014 at 12:15 PM …If WI batted first here is what would have happened, WI all out 175 and SA 100-1 at stumps.———–
Sounds about right there sir.
How quickly we forget the days when a lot of teams did this same thing against Lloyd’s pace quartet being too intimidated to bat first .
With pace like fire in Steyn and Morkel and controlled swing precision with Philander on an overcast day like that you may have been too charitable with the 175 actually.
Unfortunately, we are now the deer in the headlights of a bowling battery we are yet to handle with the skill and dedication some of our batsmen do indeed possess; as did batsmen like Gooch, Lamb, Border to name a few back in the day.
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@ David
We are just as likely to be sent in first. What’s going to happen then? LOL
Just looked at this batting line up. It’s poorer than salt fish soup. LOL
All this is the product of inept regional Boards.
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@David December 26, 2014 at 12:26 PM….————-
OK sir, well stated. Gotcha loud and clear! Agreed.
I accept that and raise you this bet: …don’t you think those reward ingredients apply to the big pro IPL and other leagues around the world and seem to apply everywhere BUT in our environment.
Why could Clive Lloyd’s teams start the professionalism of cricket and tamp down on insularity and other vices then (for a while only it seems) and focus on strong team and performance related dynamics and now EVERY OTHER team is doing it and we have stopped?
I completely agree with your assessment of the Packer period and what it started but what happened that everything went back down the drain after years of success?
That’s a rhetorical query no need to elaborate as I think we all know the answer.
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@DeeWord
There is the opportunity to analyze the difference in ethos of a group being driven by national pride and a franchise experience.
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Clive’Super Cat’Lloyd is well known as a no nonsense captain of WI cricket.Viv and Richie had bare problems getting the low lifers on the team to hear or heed their advice.We have not had anything to shout about since Lara left the game.I think there is too much cricket anyway and that is part of our problem.
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re Lloyd’s success was born out of a peculiar set of circumstances of which Packer was a big part.
THIS IS PARTIALLY TRUE DAVID—–THE MAJOR ITEM BEING DENNIS WAIGHT WHO LARA THREW AWAY. OUR FAST BOWLERS RARELY BROKE DOWN UNDER HIS TENURE.
BUT REMEMBER WE HARD STARTED TO CONQUER THE WORLD BEFORE PACKER WITH THE 4 PRONG ATTACK (INDIA&ENGLAND IN 96 AND PAKISTAN 77)
BESIDES PACKER LLOYD HAD A TEAM WITH SEVERAL MEN WHO BENIFITED IMMENSELY BY PLAYING COUNTY CRICKET
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Boy the windies going down the drain, i respect and back the players, but the board, the inept megalomaniacs on the board is who i cant stand.
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RE what happened that everything went back down the drain after years of success?
WE REALLY STARTED LOSING REGULARLY FROM 2003 UNDER THE INDISCIPLINED LARA WHO JETTISONED DENNIS WAIGHT AND CAUSED HOOPER TO RESIGN TWICE. WIBC LET LARA DO A HE LIKED UNTIL THEY COULD NOT PUT UP WITH HIM ANYMORE.
THE PRECURSOR TO THIS WAS THE TENDENCY OF SENIOR PLAYERS TO STOP PLAYING REGIONAL FIRST CLASS CRICKET AFTER RETIRING OR AFTER BEING DROPPED UNCEREMONIOUSLY AS WAS PREVIOUSLY THE CASE. THIS WEAKENED REGIONAL TEAMS CONSIDERABLY.
ANOTHER PRECURSOR WAS DROPPING 18 OF OUR BEST PLAYERS (9 OF WHOM WERE BAJANS) FOR GOING TO SOUTH AFRICA. THE RESULT OF THIS WAS A RELATIVE EASE TO GET INTO A REGIONAL TEAM AND SUBSEQUENTLY THE WINDIES TEAM.
COMPARE THIS WITH VAN ZYL GETTING HIS DEBUT TEST FOR SA AFTER PLAYING 96 FIRST CLASS GAMES. OR JADEJA GETTING IN THE INDIA TEAM AFTER SCORING THREE TRIPLE CENTURIES IN FIRST CLASS CRICKET
IF YOU WANT TO REPRESENT THE WINDIES OR BDOS TODAY ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS MAKE 21 VS BU 2ND XI OR A QUEEN’S COLLEGE ALL GIRLS ELEVEN
PEOPLE ARE RANTING AND RAVING BECAUSE LLOYD DROPPED THREE JOKERS WHO CANT AVERAGE 30 IN ANY SORT OF CRICKET
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@Georgie…PEOPLE ARE RANTING AND RAVING BECAUSE LLOYD DROPPED THREE JOKERS WHO CANT AVERAGE 30 IN ANY SORT OF CRICKET———–
Are they really?
Or are they ranting and raving because they perceive they were dropped for other reasons than performance. As bad as their averages may be they are certainly no worst than others selected.
The legal folks like to say that justice must not only be done but also seen to be done.
That I believe is the underlying dynamic here.
I am not questioning the right of the WICB selectors to choose what they perceive to be the best team because after Clive Lloyd statements quoted above (“I spoke to them … I don’t think it was the intelligent thing to do…”)
Why would he recommend Dwanye Bravo, who he believes acts without intelligent thought, to captain any WI team.
That said has justice been done equitably …
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Are we to believe no heads will roll from the WICB end?
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IT SEEMS SO DAVID
THAT SEEMS TO BE THE WAY IN THE CONTEMPORARY CARIBBEAN– NO ACCOUNTABILITY FROM FOLK AT THE TAP
SPECTATORS NEED TO SPEAK OUT BY FURTHER “TURNING THEIR BACKS FROM THE CRICKET”
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Perhaps the more pertinent question is how does on go about holding the WICB accountable.
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These sports leaders do not care about spectators GP.
They make their money from TV rights, grants from international agencies (who lobby their votes) the lottery, and from various other “deals”.
In fact, they are HAPPY when spectator numbers are down, since this presents them with fewer ‘headaches’ such as organizing events, building facilities, marketing etc.
Not only cricket… ALL SPORT.
This year our local athletes won three or four medals at the C.A.C. games. DOWN from ten last time and DOWN from 19 before that… BUT WHAT? …..some of the sports leaders started to vent their frustration after the Commonwealth games but it seems like someone read them the riot act….
The Olympic Board that sponsors these games were occupied though….. automatically extending their term of office beyond 2016 by again changing their constitution (which they changed just a few years ago too)
Our Cricket Board and the Olympic people get huge grants (millions) from the lottery EVERY year….. what the hell happens to these monies? Who accounts for the money spent and for the (poor) results achieved?
How much is spent properly on ATHLETES? …as opposed to high end vehicles, executive travel and expensive hotels? ….and lord know what else….?
No wonder the poor athletes are upset and unprepared to face international competition…. Indeed, it looks like our politicians are just following the lead of our sports Czars…..
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@ David
Seems you are avoiding defeat the only way you know well.
Where is the honour in that? LOL
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@PAcha
Only 2 days required, there is still time yet.
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@Bush Tea
Isn’t the ministry of sports responsible for oversight? The answer is not obvious?
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@ David
ministry of Sport? 🙂
….you is a REAL gallows bait yuh…
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@ David December 27, 2014 at 8:01 PM…Perhaps the more pertinent question is how does on go about holding the WICB accountable.”—————–
David, it is simple and yet at the same time difficult.
Simple, because change must come from BCA agitation and that of the other territorial boards.
Members have to make their anger and displeasure known to the BCA President and Board for him/them to represent those concerns.
Has any BCA member special gen meetings been held to discuss this issue? I suppose not.
The operational dynamics of the WICB are well set-out and the path to elect the President is as political charged as that to elect a PM from among a discordant group of MPs.
Therein lies the difficulty: Getting some semblance of unity of purpose behind the right candidate. And who is that? Who the hell knows.
So like you I am really waiting to see if Joel Garner and the other Board Presidents will allow the status quo into the new year of elections.
What transpires there will say a lot about the collusion of failure that took place among the WICB exec, because surely no one who was aware of the WICB’s ill-conceived response to the players’ demands and allowed the action to go forward unchallenged will have the audacity to ask Cameron to resign or seek to replace him.
So either they are waiting quietly to attack or are all as guilty as he is.
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Smile, David I see you have evolved (back) to the beloved pink…well beloved by those who are at ease with themselves anyhow.
Easy for my eyes so I am happy!
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LOL, now the pink of the comment box…well that perhaps is too flaming!
Laughter they say….keeps the doctor away!
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If you get frustrated with Windies cricket you could watch this rising NBA star whose mother ( Marita Payne-Wiggins ) was born in Barbados.
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@DeeWord
Can you detail how an ordinary member should raise at a BCA meeting?
A simple resolution under ‘any other business’? How should it be structured.
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@David December 28, 2014 at 12:20 AM …Can you detail how an ordinary member should raise at a BCA meeting?—-
No special structuring needed really. As you indicate bring the matter up under the AOB part of the agenda.
(I don’t have a copy of the rule book before me but that basic process can suffice as a first step(.
Present and move the matter to resolution and vote. Of course the basic step of getting the matter seconded and so on is required.
As I noted previously though it needs to be clear whether the BCA Board reps were privvy to the executive decision by WICB Pres and team there, because they (BCA folks) certainly will not support a resolution of censure if they are the ones being censured.
The politics of it all.
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@ DeeWord
Present and move the matter to resolution and vote. Of course the basic step of getting the matter seconded and so on is required.
++++++++++++++++++++++
LOL ….if you think it is that simple.
Boss, this would work if the fight was simply against flesh and blood, but it does NOT work against spiritual wickedness in high places.
In fact, MANY persons try to raise these matters at general meetings and move resolutions….and most learn very quickly the futility of their cause….
It will take a SYSTEMATIC, STRUCTURED, VISIONARY initiative, led by coherent, creative men with BALLS to break the stranglehold of evil and selfishness that currently pervade local (and global) sport.
Take football….
Imagine a mafia-like cartel sitting on top of the most popular sport on Earth – able to hide the results of an inquiry into a massive case of international bribery and graft while merrily continuing in office…
This is the same FIFA who created and protected the Jack Warner monster until he REALLY outdid himself…
Same way Jack learned and brought his “skills” back to the region, don’t you think our OTHER sports czars have learned? Why do you think they need to travel so much? How else do you think they manage to remain in power for DECADES with such pissy results for sport?
In which meeting would you present and move your resolution…?
The world of which you write ended back in the 1980’s Dee….
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@ Bushie
That world never really existed!
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Wait! We didn’t know that the West Indies could make 50 without loss. Like they trying to avoid defeat. LOL
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@Pacha
Goat mout!
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RE
It will take a SYSTEMATIC, STRUCTURED, VISIONARY initiative, led by coherent, creative men with BALLS to break the stranglehold of evil and selfishness that currently pervade local (and global) sport.
THIS IS UNFORTUNATELY VERY TRUE IN NEARLY EVERY SPHERE OF LIFE
dOING EXACTLY WHAT IS SAID ABOVE, TWO GUYS AND I CLOSED A MEDICAL SCHOOL IN MEXICO BY POSTING DAILY ON VALUE MD FOR THREE YEARS DESPITE THREATS OF A MILLION DOLLAR LAWSUIT AND THE SENDING OF ME TO OUR HOMES TO INTIMIDATE US
a SYSTEMATIC, STRUCTURED, VISIONARY initiative, led by coherent, creative men with BALLS CAN INDEED break strangleholdS of evil and selfishness
tHIS IS EXACTLY WHAT LLOYD IS DOING IN THE CASE OF THE DROPPED TRIO
THE NEXT STEP IS TO REMOVE AND REPLACE THE BOARD IF coherent, creative men with BALLS CAN BE FOUND
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@ Georgie Porgie
WICB have recalled Darren Sammy to the ODI team.
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RE
Anthony December 28, 2014 at 3:44 PM #
@ Georgie Porgie
WICB have recalled Darren Sammy to the ODI team.
I KNOW SIR. BUT WILL HE PLAY? OR IS HE JUST A TOKEN? [WELL HE ALWAYS WAS ANYWAY.LOL]
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@Bush Tea December 28, 2014 at 7:38 AM…LOL ….if you think it is that simple.”—-
I hear yah loudly and clearly…re SYSTEMATIC, STRUCTURED, VISION as the requirement.
But yes the process of presenting resolutions were indeed done in some orderly fashion as late as mids 2000’s when I used to attend BCA meetings and listen to the guys from Coleridge St pompesette and pontificate on the most minor of stuff.
In short, the resolutions or discourse didn’t necessarily bring forth any awesome results always but there was a process.
But even then the political climate was a morass of ‘brass bowls’ to borrow your term.
That said I would offer that I thought the then youthful Pres. Alleyne was a positive change that could have heralded a different dynamic in this current tom-foolery.
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One bright spot in West Indies Test team is the batting of Kraigg Brathwaite. Clearly he understands the requirements an opening batsman in a test match.
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Hants Kraigg is the exception, very single minded and great support from his father.
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Brathwaite IS LIKE HIS IDOL CHANDERPAUL.
DeeWord December 28, 2014 at 5:18 PM #
THANKS FOR ENLIGHTENING ME ABOUT BCA MEETINGS
I BECAME A MEMBER IN 78 AND A LIFE MEMBER IN 98 BUT NEVER MADE TIME TO ATTEND ANY MEETINGS. GLAD I DID NOT. LOL
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@Georgie Porgie December 28, 2014 at 7:05…NEVER MADE TIME TO ATTEND ANY MEETINGS. GLAD I DID NOT.———-
Shame on you for missing those festivals of part palaver piffle part serious stuff!
To paraphrase the Trini bard : You see grandstanding…that used to be grandstanding!
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@ DeeWord
…but here is the REAL joke…
BCA is probably the best overall of the local lot….
…try to picture what that means for the rest…
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@Bush Tea
Before lottery and other monies are dumped into these sports association doesn’t it make sense to enforce some ‘institutional strengthening’?
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@ David
It would make sense to normal people but we are talking about Barbados…. BBs..
….As long as the “little people” are getting their “berry” they will not complain about what the big fish do or have any interest in overall transparency….
There are lots of free trips in that LOTTO money….why do you think some persons hold on to office even when practically all their athletes openly call on them to go? 🙂
…free trips, fancy hotels, per diems…..
…free ipads, jobs at NCC, picks on Boards….
Like um is a Bajan thing, cause politics and sport have the same characteristics.
We still have people who argue that politicians are expected to steal and live big – as long as they share the fatted calf…..it is the same with sport.
The sports calf is still plump and available for “sharing” due to this funding. Unfortunately there is not much left over to invest in actually improving sport…….
Do our various sport leaders issue statements about their progress made for the year? Does the presidents of BOA /BCA/ Sports groups make public statements about achievements/ challenges/ plans/ resources expended? (Football does since Randy)
…place is one big joke…..
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@Bush Tea
In essence you have given lil hitlah a big fail?
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Not when it comes to talk…..
….or producing fancy sounding papers and speeches…
NATO
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@ Hants December 28, 2014 at 6:31 PM #
“One bright spot in West Indies Test team is the batting of Kraigg Brathwaite. Clearly he understands the requirements an opening batsman in a test match.”
A very true point, Hants. Michael Holding also made similar comments in an end of day’s play interview. Holding remarked that although Brathwaite is not a very attractive batsman and one you would not drop your food to watch bat, he knows how to score runs and has been doing so for a very long time.
And what is more remarkable, Brathwaite has five (5) scores of 50+ runs in 2014, which is the most by any West Indian opening batsman in the last 5 calendar years.
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The West Indies like they really have a RAINMAKER, no pun intended, on the team. And the rainmaker pulling his weight. LOL
Well, we guess in war it may not be a bad thing to have control over the elements. LOL
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We now see that a reliable 12th man, rain, played a vital part in a drawn Test match. Maybe Mr. Rainmaker should man of the match. LOL
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A perspective we have not discussed is the role of the local and regional media. For example we have two cricket shows in Barbados hosted by Andrew Mason and Keith Holder and you never get certain BCA officials and cricketers appearing on both shows.
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@David December 30, 2014 at 7:00 PM …For example we have two cricket shows in Barbados hosted by Andrew Mason and Keith Holder and you never get certain BCA officials and cricketers appearing on both shows”
Is that because the officials feel they are too self important to be interviewed, not invited or can’t be bothered.
Unfortunately one of the problems relates to the fact that the local and regional media play a very limited role in the marketing of the game. That is all the TV contracts are with outside media so the local guys have no ‘power’ to demand they be allowed at the table.
Kerry Packer’s Channel 9 DEMANDED a seat at the table, ESPN and BeingSport and those type of players demand a seat. Getting interviews with some people of course are still an issue but not to the level to which you allude.
What’s the answer. The local guys have to continue to establish their presence and relevance in the local market and to the point that coming on their show is important to the officials.
I certainly recall the big boys doing shows in the past so maybe they do interviews when it’s good for them only.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/westindies/content/current/story/816159.html
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The link: http://www.espncricinfo.com/westindies/content/current/story/816159.html
Excellent remarks by Clive Lloyd. He has highlighted key points re WI cricket.
Former West Indies captain Clive Lloyd has said that West Indies cricket has been “messed up” by the T20 format..
…”Someone like Andre Russell, I spoke to him only a month ago and said you can get into our Test side because you are one of the best allrounders in the world. A couple of weeks later he told me he has got a bad knee and could only play one-dayers. It’s such a waste that we have a guy who could be a great cricketer who is now not thinking of playing both formats. We have contracts, probably not as exorbitant as others, but they are getting good money. It doesn’t seem playing for our country is paramount where these players are concerned. ..”
“I don’t think there is any cricketer who should strike for money now because they are well paid. ..”
A good read all of it. Quite powerful remarks.
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@ David
A perspective we have not discussed is the role of the local and regional media.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
But we HAVE discussed the role (or more correctly the LACK of role) of the local and regional media ad nauseam.
What we have NOT discussed is the roles of sports administrators in sharing with athletes AND with the public the vision, strategy, plans and results of their stewardship.
It is NOT really for the press to find these people and elicit comments….. Sports leaders should be REQUIRED to communicate and to RESPOND publicly to concerns.
What have we heard from the minister, director of sport, BOA President or from the various leaders of sport groups about the recent piss poor results from CAC?
What became of the tiff that developed after the Commonwealth games when some sports claimed that the BOA was uncharitable in comments about their performances?
What is this business of the BOA’s do-nothing board extending its term by changing the constitution?
..these sport leaders appear to be the inspiration for our current prime minister yuh…. just sit in position (in some cases for decades) and don’t say one shiite or do one shiite…. and hope to be left to sleep in peace….
Does Steve Stoute EVER speak publicly except for prepared speeches at ceremonies?
Who is the director of sport now?
Who is this new fellow at the Gymnasium?
What are the plans for Kensington (until DEEDS gets it back 🙂 …)
steupsss
…never seen such institutionalized shiite yet.
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Betting window open.
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West Indies best performer in South Africa………..RAIN!!!! lol
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https://www.facebook.com/IrieFmJA/posts/10152747517257917
Desmond Haynes blast former England bowler for distasteful West Indies comments
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Well David, we can’t blame anyone but ourselves really.
Those type of snide comments by a former player such as Willis who endured severe thrashings from WI teams is his paltry attempt at some type of payback.
He would love to relegate us to a non-status.
Just shows that he and likely too all of his various teammates can’t get over being made to ‘bow humbly’ to the might that was the WI of yore…or dare I say: made to ‘GROVEL’ (may Greig continue to RIP).
Alas, such is life. How the mighty WI have fallen!
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When Johnson was running about ENGLAND in the 5 nil drubbing they got from Australia, what did Willis say then?
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Willis’ problem is really that there is no longer an England team
The England team is now really best though of as a team from the UNITED NATIONS..iN FACT A BAJAN IS ONE OF THEIR BEST BOWLERS! LOL
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The following is a long extract which explains the absence of Kiran Powell. It says a lot. How do we expect to improve. Note the lack of good management of a young resource.
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No Bravo, Pollard for World Cup: Ramnarine
The following is a letter obtained by ESPNcricinfo, written on October 7, by Dwayne Bravo to WIPA president and chief executive Wavell Hinds
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David January 8, 2015 at 5:57 AM # … The following … explains the absence of Kiran Powell. It says a lot. How do we expect to improve. Note the lack of good management of a young resource”…………
There are things that make sense and then there is this episode… doesn’t make sense on the face of it.
If we take all that is said as valid then I ask –
Yes we can talk of mismanagement but what I see here is a youngster who got a little ahead of himself and because he was ‘plugged in’ to those in high places on the board he thought he could finesse the system.
I am shocked that this lengthy statement FROM HIM is in the public domain. A short crisp factual account on his initial meetings with basic followup details would have told the story of his absence properly and maintained the proper decorum.
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@DeeWord
Why is Cameron talking to Pollard about captaincy?
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@ David January 8, 2015 at 8:42 PM # Why is Cameron talking to Pollard about captaincy?——–
I suspect you mean Powell above.
For very simple reasons really to motivate him to go out and set the world afire with his talents. The ending to that would be: because one day you could raise to be the captain. So in that context that type of statement would be made by Cameron.
Based on Mr. Powell’s remarks: His father knows Cameron and was a former Board member . I expect too that Cameron knows the lad and therefore treated him as a youngster to guide and nurture.
The fact that Cameron is also WICB Pres may make the issue seem a bit ‘wrong’ but realistically that is neither here or there in my view. I am sure it’s the type of statement that is said to other promising lads who appear to have the savvy, smarts and skill to make it at that level.
Mr. Powell may have let it go directly to his head and thought he was special.
The chief selector has made similar heedy remarks about the two Bajans Brathwaite and Holder. Samuels was on the rocket to the top too with nice remarks in the very early days (Steve Waugh, no less and others in WI top levels) prior to his implosion with that betting stuff.
I see it in no more or less that context.
The lad is being badly advised here seems to me.
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WI side looks good on paper.
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Breakin news!!!!! David you read Nationnews Flying fish & cou cou? Third party?
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Has Narine corrected his “problem”?
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@HAnts
Warm over soup?
Re: Narine, he has been working privately. Bear in mind he was not called in an ICC tournament.
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