Reports circulating in the international media indicate 12 Caricom countries along with Haiti and Suriname have initiated proceedings to sue three former colonisers, Britain, France and the Netherlands. This is good news for many Blacks in the Caribbean who believe (and justly so) that the heinous practice of slavery must be addressed in a material way. Why should it be addressed? The societies of the mentioned colonisers have benefited from untold wealth which has been acquired as a result of sweat,blood and tears shed our ancestors. It does not matter if slavery was an accepted practice of those times. What matters is that it was a heinous act which has stained history’s page and said page should now reflect those who benefitted most address it!
The region recently appointed Sir Hilary Beckles to head Caricom’s reparations committee. He has not wasted any time lighting a fire under the issue. The committee has secured the services of British law firm Leigh Day whose reputation was enhanced recently when the it won compensation for hundreds of Kenyans arising from the Mau Mau rebellion.
Although there is no official figure given of the repatriations claim a few regional newspapers have suggested £200 billion, the equivalent to the £20 million paid to slave owners in 1834 when slavery was abolished. Prime Minister Ralph Gonzales, the most vocal of regional leaders, stated in a speech to the UN recently that “The awful legacy of these crimes against humanity ought to be repaired for the developmental benefit of our Caribbean societies and all our peoples.”
Although BU agrees with the move to exact reparations there is uncertainty about the approach. We are however hopeful our concerns can be explained.
If Caricom governments are suing for damages over the slavery of our ancestors, should it not be a class action brought by the descendants of the slaves themselves?
If the governments are doing it on behalf of the descendants, and they secure £200 billion damages, will the payment be made to the descendants of the slaves? BU is very interested (and we are getting ahead of ourselves) how any settlement would be distributed. We surely do not want regional politicians to have sole authority on its allocation.
Finally, Sir Hilary who is one of our decorated historians has confirmed many times that our slave ancestors were sold into slavery by their own people in Africa. Does Caricom intend to extend the scope of defendants of the action to include the African states?
Let us get this right!
163 responses to “The Caribbean Advances Claim for Reparations”
I agree with the concept of reparations.
However it is not likely to happen so the only value to the BU family is intellectual stimulation.
Let us focus on the situation Barbados finds itself in.
The Barbados economy is highly dependent on “high risk” industries that depend on others.
Tourism. we need others to visit and spend money.
Financial Services. We depend on Canadians and others passing their money through Barbados to avoid some taxation in their home countries.
Isn’t it time that we change and diversify the economy of Barbados in a way that will reduce the risks.
The world economy may have recovered from the recession but there has not been an economic boom that typically accompanies a recovery.
Regardless of which political party is in power Barbados will continue to suffer unless we become more productive in the workplace and new industries and businesses are created to spread the risks in the economy.
Butch Stewart and Four Seasons will provide a “diversion” but the focus has to be corrective sustainable long term measures to stop Barbados from regressing.
Oilman…….time will tell, i tend to agree somewhat with your opinion re new world order, because there is alot going on but bear in mind, everything under this sun has to run it’s course, particularly mankind’s ferocious greed and need to control a world/earth that they did not/cannot create and also this sadistic need to control each other. As you said, that is another topic for another time.
Amused…….I also agree with what you say, but we have to agree that the descendants of slave owners are still dictating from how much paper money should be circulating on the earth to who should have more than whom with regards to financial wealth etc, how many wars should be fought and all myriads of evil………having 200 billion in paper money can in no way benefit a race of people who cannot and/or refuse to dictate their own destiny and that of their descendants, that is my opinion anyway. I don’t see the maturity, independence or raw intelligence that should be visible and needed for such a venture, in contrast i see the deprogramming and re-education giving the race at least a fighting chance to dictate their own lives going forward……….did Barbados’ leaders not just go on a trip to England looking for money, are they not part of the Caricom heads suing England for reparations, now excuse me but i do not feel you will be happy if i sued you and then tried to borrow money from you, where is the common sense, so that is what we are really dealing with here, people who lack intelligence.
I am looking at it even more indepth, if Europe were to add up all the grants that were distributed to Barbados and the Caribbean post slavery/colonial times/post ‘indepence’, do you believe it will exceed 200 billion, and what kind of arguments can they make during the lawsuit to that effect??…..lots of gray areas.
I thought de post did not go thru de first time cause me puter did spooling so that is why wunnah seein two posts that similar
Thanks Amused, look forward to you sharing the results of your research with the family as is customary.
@Well Well
The issue is paying reparations based on a valid claim. How are you able to attached conditionalities again?
@Bush Tea
Join the fight even if it only has to bring a disunited people together.
I made a point a while back that the institution of slavery existed for thousands of years before England came along and found it flourishing.
In less than 300 years that institution was abolished in law and the thinking established to ensure it would disappear in the world.
Just as the roads of the Roman Empire spread the word of God far and wide in early times, the British Empire spread the thinking by sea and ensured the whole world would seek to get rid of slavery.
I contended at the time I made the point that the effect of access to the Bible through the printing press and then its translation into various languages wrought a change in Man’s heart.
Rather than seeking reparations for the evils of slavery Barbados should be looking to declare it’s entire land mass a Historical Site, share it with the world and glorify God’s works.
For it is within these very fields and hills that God wrought his change in Man’s heart and brought him to realize the necessity of abolishing the institution of slavery that had existed for thousands of years.
what a disgrace this Caricom crowd is. Now they are begging with a hat in one hand and a club in the other! How embarrassing even to be associated with these clowns.
David………..Amused might be best able to tell you if conditionalities can be attached, i did ask him……when he gets a moment he might be able to see yea or nay..
John said:
“In less than 300 years that institution was abolished in law and the thinking established to ensure it would disappear in the world.”
____________________________
Sorry to burst your bubble John, but modern day slavery is alive and well and if allowed to will flourish even better than it did in the 1400s coming forward, the same players are involved, after all they got so wealthy the first time, why ruin a good thing.
Bahamared………..did they not mention Bahamas as being involved in the lawsuit for reparations, i must have been mistaken, but i could swear i saw something to that effect………….i was wondering because somehow i don’t believe they want to be part of Caricom.
I Interested one thing. Who will be the benefactors of this money? We got some real political crooks throughout the Caribbean. So again I want to know who gine handle this money, if paid, and where will it be held for accounting purposes,
John
Yah sick b$tch … HA HA HA
Amused
What is this 15% commission to a Government for acting as agent … They are already being paid to be agents … HA
Well Well
I tell you I don’ cay all that much ’bout deprogrammin’, it just ain’ gone happen. I want my money in hand …! (It’s 200 Billion and not 20billion, I want my piece)
Bush Tea
I agree with you whole heatedly. And for this moral support that I am offering you, feel free to give me your share.
Konkieman
You like you eating your own Konkies and selling the rest to John
Hants
Okay, okay, but back off of the “Productivity in the work place” mantra until you can measure the phenomena as it pertains to consultants and administrators …!
Sunny Sunshine…..the governments will tax it so much that there will be very little to disburse so anyway you look at it we will be screwed all over again.
wunna really think that the kwhiteman gonna give blackman such power..Money is POWER and Hellwould freeze over before White man relinquish any such power to blacks of any race,, The jews were able to get theres because they had what america need to help build their EMPIRE OF GREED.What does black have to bargain with, WeLL maybe some MARYJANE can be used as leverage but i doubt cause the whiteman can produce their own
Oh before i forget let me give a shout out to MIlLER.. i guess it is time for one them procedures again,,,, Miller keep yuh hands off the nurses backsides at the QEH…….get well soon………xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
“Finally, Sir Hilary who is one of our decorated historians has confirmed many times that our slave ancestors were sold into slavery by their own people in Africa”
I am sure you have misinterpret sir hilary’s words. yes blacks sold blacks but in those days when they never knew of other races, blacks belonged to totally different tribes which usually was at war with each other.
what most people do not quite grasp is that during those days of slavery, the blacks in Africa never considered themselves one people. they belonged to different tribes. just like u would not consider an Grenadian to be a Barbadian, the only similarity would be the race. so to say that “their own people sold them into slavery is not quite accurate. Those that were sold were usually those who were caught in a crime, those who were captured from wars, some were stolen by another tribe and sold into slavery etc.
Barbados must be a part of this venture too. if we are brave enough to admit it, the whites here had a better leverage simply because they were white, they were given access to land, education etc all the wealth of Barbados. if we check the slave laws, there is one cruel law which stipulates that no BLACK MUST HAVE MORE THAN A WHITE, therefore if land cost at the time $1.00, the black had to pay $10.00 etc by doing that it ensured that few blacks could move forward. knowing our uttering silly government and our false pride, i am betting that barbados would not be represented as usual. we had a suitcase independence so our leaders cannot really appreciate fighting for our rights
well well,
as usual the Bahamas takes no active involvement, nor does the population know anything about the debates taking place. However, our government offers token support and votes with the group, often bringing us into embarrassment. At present, it has just come out in one of our dailies that this is even going on and the minister of foreign affairs is deflecting the matter by saying we had no presence at the meetings, but would support the group. My guess is that (as with CSME) they will have to come out, break ranks and distance themselves so as not to infuriate the public.
But, David@2:58 pm, if slavery was legal at the relevant time, on what is the claim for reparations based? Note that the treatment of the Mau Mau warriors was not legal.
Bahama…thanks for the clarification, as usual the Caribbean leaders believe they work for themselves and not the taxpayers and don’t think it necessary to include their people in events that determine their future.
Smooth……….what the Caribbean islands practice against each other can be called tribalism, just like in good old Africa, to break it down even further, what the political parties and their followers practice is an even more disgusting brand of tribalism.
ac………when that money is divided between the tons of Caribbean islands, minus the attorney’s fees and other administrative costs, it will not last as long as a snow cone in today’s economic environment.
Baf……………..i know you are hot to spend……LOL!!!
CARICOM’s silence on the Haiti/Dominican Republic issue reveals the absolute lack of principle, purpose and hence position on anything of consequence. What is CARICOM’s response to the recent detaining by Venezuela of a ship working in Guyana’s waters?
Oh shoot, if this whole thing hinges on “legality” dah mean that I can’t file my own class action suit against the Government for a hundred years of Master-Servant legislation nida …! … Stupse
how long have blacks in the USA been asking for reparations and all they got is an apology…… most of the criminals are dead and asking the benefactors to givve back,,,huh,, some of them are also sitting in the UN and would be hearing this case . what justice,,, americans still waiting for 40acres and a mule even obama distance himself from the issue and he black i think.
bahamared | October 12, 2013 at 5:08 PM |
what a disgrace this Caricom crowd is. Now they are begging with a hat in one hand and a club in the other! How embarrassing even to be associated with these clowns.
…………………………………………………………..
And look who is leading the charge. Reparation Bounty or Marijauna Bounty. It makes you wonder if we are the same people who produced the likes of Eric Williams, Dipper Barrow ,John Compton and such honourable Caribbean statesmen.
But Jeff you are operating in the same space as the person leading the charge 🙂
Seriously, while slavery was legal in the countries of the colonisers the majority of Blacks were abducted from autonomous societies.
BAFBFP | October 12, 2013 at 5:56 PM |
John
Yah sick b$tch … HA HA HA
++++++++++++++++++++++++
I can back up everything I say.
I know my country backwards, forwards and inside out!!.
and a another vexingquestion how about the statue of limitations which can be used as a stronghold against moving these cases forward and seeking resolve,,
http://news.silobreaker.com/uk-government-blocks-caribbean-reparations-bid-5_2267167658715643951
When Barbados receives its share of the handout, how will the money be distributed? To the Transport Board ? Sanitation Service Authority? National Insurance Service, Barbados Water Authority , BL&P, Al Barrack, or the Bajan bulgarians.
White racists run with argument blacks also sold blacks into slavery, which is not legal justification and would carry no weight in court and shows how dishonest they are.
Blacks in Barbados were bought on slave ships by British, from Africa carried across borders separated from family to work as slaves, many were degraded beaten raped abused and murdered.
Cases should be filed in UK as they will refuse to come to Caricom, EU or International Court
http://www.funbarbados.com/ourisland/history/slavery.cfm
Our so-called (…… or is it so and so) leaders are a waste of time
interesting article to david cameron
http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/prime-minister-where-are-my-40-acres-and-mule
@Well Well. | October 12, 2013 at 4:28 PM | “……now excuse me but i do not feel you will be happy if i sued you and then tried to borrow money from you……”
Yes I would lend you money on proper security and with adequate interest. Cut off my nose to spite my face? I don’t think so.
@Jeff Cumberbatch | October 12, 2013 at 7:35 PM | “But, David@2:58 pm, if slavery was legal at the relevant time, on what is the claim for reparations based? Note that the treatment of the Mau Mau warriors was not legal.”
@David | October 12, 2013 at 8:34 PM | “Seriously, while slavery was legal in the countries of the colonisers the majority of Blacks were abducted from autonomous societies.”
@Jeff. That is a very good answer by David. Abduction (read kidnapping) was always illegal. Theft was always illegal – indeed, it was a hanging offence. BOTH were. The legality of slavery was mostly based on illegal acts. Therefore the legality of the slave trade was, in my view, mostly illegal. Think the Bar Association versus the Constitution. Now if the slave traders had bought the slaves and not kidnapped and/or abducted and/or stole them, then, under the laws of the time, it was legal. But to kidnap and/or abduct and/or steal them was to profit from the proceeds of criminal acts. And to claim that the governments viewed this as a legal process does not, for me, wash at all. So David’s counter-argument is a good one. But it brings us back to reparation for the INDIVIDUAL and not governments.
The 11th commandment
And the lawyers shall be paid
In Canada we owe everybody, the Indians , the Japanese, buggard children by priests not the Vatican owes them me and I am not even catholic, the gays, the French the fisherman, the farmers etc everybody. we need to keep that lawyer gravy train moving so every group sues to keep those poor barristers off the bread line. So saddle up, your in for a long taxpayer funded ride.
Now I read that the money would be for all the work that was put in to make Barbados what it is today, but by all your accounts its a screwed up mess Weird..
Baffy…..we in trouble again,we have to break down the 4/8th Octoroon into whether the ancestors were sold legally or abducted as per Amused and Jeff…..help me work out this one…
Whatever its history, is the Caribbean today a poor region of the world? How pathetic and ignorant for a group of middle and high income countries to be pretending that they are somehow victims in need of somebody’s sympathy. Should not England be getting compensation from the French for the Norman invasion?
Also, let us not forget this basic fact: when Europeans colonised the Americas, slavery was LONG DEAD in Europe. There were NO African slaves in Britain. But slavery was very much alive in west Africa. Englishmen (including our white ancestors – remember, we are mostly mixed in this region) took advantage of an AFRICAN institution and bought slaves from African traders. Anyone who denies this is too dumb for words.
If you want to sue someone, sue the descendants of those West African Kingdoms who sold your ancestors to your other ancestors!
@bahamared
Please try to be accurate.
We have established that slaves were both bought and sold from West Africa.
Please note that Britain is a G7 country if you want to compare the development status Britain and Caribbean.
How do you define the wealth status of a country anyway? Are you using per capita? You are aware to use a single economic indicator is disingenuous.
Why was my post deleted? If CARICOM wants to taken seriously then it has show that it operates with principle and purpose in the interest of its members. The Haitians are discriminated by Dominican Republic and Venezuela is obviously stymieing Guyana’s attempt to develop its maritime areas. Yet CARICOM is silent on these present day issues but wants to sue for reparations from those that will claim that aid and preferential trade agreements have been compensatory enough.
I have two friends that are collectors one rocks the others raises dogs, the one thing that seems to be the same with both of them is they always keep the best for themselves and get rid of the ones that , aren’t the smartest or brightest ,do no t work the hardest, don’t shine over the others , Well I don’t know if what bahamared says is true or not …but it would explain a lot of things
@Ping Pong
Sorry about that, it was incorrectly spammed.
On 13 October 2013 12:17, Barbados Underground
@David
Per Capita income may not be a good way of judging larger more complex places like Indonesia or even the US, but it is CERTAINLY a good glimpse into life in small places like the Caribbean.
In terms of wealth per capita, according to the World Bank, the Bahamas is just below Japan and just ahead of New Zealand for 2012. That sounds about right to me, having been to all three places.
But beyond this, In my country every single factor of life places us among the luckiest places to be born. Judge this not just by per capita income, but also by migration (huge net in migration, with no economic out-migration, despite very easy visa free travel to practically the whole world), by remittances (western union’s traffic in its Nassau outlets is 90 percent outbound remittances), by the rate of poverty (9% against 22% in the UK) or by just asking any Bahamian where he would prefer to live.
This asinine and ignorant assertion by Caribbean leaders that (despite what it looks like on paper) we are all poor and vulnerable is aimed at tapping the black man’s victimhood syndrome. It is only partly successful because of corresponding outside perceptions that black societies simply must be basket cases on some level and on the fact that many in our region do not travel, so they do not realise how lucky they are.
I am proud to come from a country that was graduated into ineligibility for aid way back in the 1980s. I am ashamed to be part of a regional grouping with monkeys like Gonsalves who go begging on behalf of us all.
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/commentaries/If-youre-black-go-back-227312651.html
last 2 paragraphs from the above article reads:
“The DR is a member of Cariforum and has, so I hear, expressed an interest in joining Caricom. A serious organisation would not even entertain such an idea while the DR’s contemptuous and racially-driven denial of human rights to Haitians and Dominico-Haitians on its territory continues.
In the meantime, we must hear the voices of Caricom leaders, raised loud in protest and action. Where is Ralph Gonsalves, the reparations protagonist who was so voluble in 2004 at the forced departure of Jean-Bertrand Aristide from Haiti, and who is to be the Caricom chairman from January 1 next year? Where is Kenny Anthony? Denzil Douglas? Where indeed is Caricom?”
@David,
Oh please, so someone comes and grabs a label like “G7” and that impresses you?? Almost laughable. Argentina, Russia and South Africa are in the G20…do they seem like rich places to you?
Maybe we should create the G1 with only the Cayman Islands as a member?
What do you mean when you say “developed”? Russia is more “developed” than the Bahamas in what sense? Because it has a large army? To me development means the standard of living of the people.
Have you been to Britain? Do you think it matters to the poor scummers in Hull or Liverpool if the country calls itself “G7”?
Damn it is easy to brainwash some of us!!!!
Africans had slaves but prided themselves on how well they were looked after. Whites justified slavery hypocrisy with racist dehumanisation of blacks as sub-humans animals. Truth is black slaves were the physically strongest slaves who lived longest. Slavery and Racism (of the white kind) are the biggest crimes perpetuated against mankind in history, the legacy of which is still manifested today, as slaves and resources from third world built Western Wealth. Europe was interested in Africa’s resource as it is a vast rich continent with its people scattered far and wide amongst the wilderness
@kiki
I have a splendid idea!!! All of you poor mistreated blacks who so miss the homeland….why not just EMIGRATE TO AFRICA?????????
Leave the horrible life you have in the Caribbean and head back to the heaven on earth known as Nigeria.
This whole debate is so stupid and debased that it would not deserve comment, apart from the fact that Gonsalves has managed to drag us all into it on a global stage.
When I look at where and how I live today (compared to if my ancestors were left in Africa with their slave trading brethren) I want to kiss the white man…..oh dear, hope no Jamaicans around to hear that!
Maybe if Gonsalves woke up and smelled the bananas, he would see that his real problem is that he cannot think of any development policies to replace the European quota supported agriculture that European colonial guilt led them to support. Instead he looks for new ways of getting the sympathy of the big, rich white man who lives only in his head.
In the real world, Britain and its ilk are declining powers looking only to their own survival (UK in fact just got edged back by Brazil to the 7th biggest economy and will soon leave the “G7”). In the real world, the conditions have never been better for small, services oriented economies to really excel of their own accords. He and his type will never see any of this, as they are stuck in a narrative of “poor little black us”. Pathetic!
Baf……….here is proof in what you said yesterday…….the truth is indeed funny….this guy is telling us all what time it is.
Bahama said:
“remember, we are mostly mixed in this region) took advantage of an AFRICAN institution and bought slaves from African traders. Anyone who denies this is too dumb for words.”
_____________________________
Bahama…….in my opinion the advantage the Europeans took of an African institution was/is criminal in nature, if you look at the laws they themselves created, rape, murder, kidnapping, stealing etc. etc are all crimes and should be punished accordingly, their ancestors committed the crimes and managed to slither out of punishment, the descendants are still benefiting financially and remain obscenely wealthy from the crimes their ancestors committed, someone (the benefactors) should pay dearly, as i said i don’t think it should be in the form of money, but there are other ways.
In addition, we need to stop spreading the falsehoods that everyone in Africa suffers, that is just not true, guess who still stirs up hatreds, tribalism, sells weapons to the Africans who are uneducated and keeps the wars going in Africas, yes, the West, cause when they are stealing they need you to be distracted, not every country in Africa is poor, people in some of the over 50 countries live wonderful lives, just like you do in the Caribbean…..and remember Africa is still the wealthiest country on earth, contrary to the lies told by the West, right now business in Africa is booming a whole lot better than the West, well we do know what is happening here right.
“I have a splendid idea!!! All of you poor mistreated blacks who so miss the homeland….why not just EMIGRATE TO AFRICA?????????
Leave the horrible life you have in the Caribbean and head back to the heaven on earth known as Nigeria”
==
I’m not black or from barbados. Where are you from and what is your skin complexion
Racism shown at black Africans is same racism shown to black bajans, americans, canadians, british all over diaspora
Barbados slaves were mainly for sugar money as well as a slave port
Dividend Shares Profits for the sugar and slavery income stream are due
Africa is beautiful full of resources white cunts would love to have a share
The neo cons against reparations continue to use startling and mind boggling arguments . while convientl forgetting that the slave trade is a constant reminder of HUMANITY INJUSTICE AGAINST HUMANITY as they hobbled along with the one mindset of beliveing from a racist and basis point of view that Blacks are lazy and undeserving of any dues to them frm the past horrors of slavery, One can only reflect ask ” whatif” but one must also bear in mind is that what has happened is a consequence and a result of a society which saw blacks as less than Human…that should be enough an agrument going forward to state that Blacks in themselves are not respnsibilty for what economic social difficults they are being presented with at present but it was the wheel or nexus that have brought todays Blacks into a struggle against dark depression and survival amongst the fittest.
President Johnson once summarised and made a strng argument in a speech stated
President Lyndon B. Johnson provided the most direct response to
this line of argument. When speaking to the graduating class at Howard
University on June 4, 1965, President Johnson made the case for his proposed
“Great Society” revolution. Reviewing the civil rights struggle to
date, President Johnson recognized that:
[F]reedom is not enough. You do not wipe away the scars of centuries
by saying: Now you are free to go where you want, and do
as you desire, and choose the leaders you please. You do not
take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and
liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then
say, “you are free to compete with all the others,” and still justly
believe that you have been completely fair. Thus it is not enough
just to open the gates of opportunity. All our citizens must have
the ability to walk through those gates. This is the next and the
more profound stage of the battle for civil rights.
President Lyndon B. Johnson, To Fulªll These Rights, Commencement Address at
Howard University (June 4, 1965), available at http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/johnson/
archives.hom/speeches.hom/650604.asp. President Johnson continued:
We seek not just freedom but opportunity. We seek not just legal equity but human
ability, not just equality as a right and a theory but equality as a fact and
equality as a result. For the task is to give 20 million Negroes the same chance as
every other American to learn and grow, to work and share in society, to develop
their abilities—physical, mental and spiritual, and to pursue their individual happiness.
To this end equal opportunity is essential, but not enough, not enough.
Men and women of all races are born with the same range of abilities. But ability
is not just the product of birth. Ability is stretched or stunted by the family that
you live with, and the neighborhood you live in—by the school you go to and the
poverty or the richness of your surroundings. It is the product of a hundred unseen
forces playing upon the little infant, the child, and ªnally the man.
David to Bush Tea
“Join the fight”
What bloody fight? Talk and talk and talk and talk is ringside. David, ask us to march. Tell us you’ll be in the van.
Amused – yes.
Why not use the money for repatriation? That’s the root of the injury isn’t it? Then let Beckles become the VC of Ibadan or the Principal of something or other in downmarket Ilorin where, he said once, they hailed him as a saviour. Mind, he would have to be careful. There is a history of poisoning VC’s in Ibadan. As for the Portuguese – take it up with the Olu of Warri and Oba of Benin and good luck.
@Ross
“Join the fight”
You betray your larder thinking. It is like expecting battles are waged nowadays using only conventional weapons.
Baf…………this one is shorter, sweeter and nothing but the unvarnished TRUTH, it was blocked for 3 years, but you can only keep the truth hidden for so long and no longer………