Banner promoting anonymous crime reporting with a phone and contact number 1 800 TIPS (8477), featuring the Crime Stoppers logo and a QR code for submitting tips.

โ† Back

Your message to the BLOGMASTER was sent

By William Layne, retired Permanent Secretary – Ministry of Finance (Barbados)

The 1980s witnessed the collapse of the investment firm DREXELL BURNHAM LAMBERT and the imprisonment of Michael Milken and Ivan Boeskey for insider trading. This was an era of leveraged buyouts financed by junk bonds, which demonstrated the greed and arrogance of wall-street personnel. The 1990s saw the dot com boom and bust. The stock market fell after 911 and then recovered before the decline occasioned by the 2008 financial meltdown. However, before the 2008 crisis we witnessed the collapse of MCIWORLDCOM and ENRON the imprisonment of Bernie Ebbers and some of the Enron executives for fraud. Ebbers is serving 25 years.

These international events were caused by a number of factors, such as, the greed and arrogance of wall-street actors; the greed and ignorance on the part of some investors and in some cases, an absence of effective regulation and the political belief in the virtues of the market to be self-regulating. ALAN GREENSPAN now admits that he made an error in assuming that the market would effectively regulate itself to prevent excesses.

The Caribbean over a similar period of time has witnessed financial crises. In Barbados the year 1986 saw the collapse of Trade Confirmers, a finance company offering interest rates on deposits that were in excess of what the other regulated entities were offering. The depositors lost their money. However, prior to that event, Barbadian depositors had lost money when two icons on the Barbadian business landscape the COTTON FACTORY and THE BARBADOS FOUNDRY collapsed. Here again there was no bailout of depositors. Trade Confirmers though a deposit taking institution was not regulated by the Central Bank and this brought about a change of legislation subsequent to the event to regulate these Finance Companies. However, there are still companies in Barbados accepting deposits from the public which are not licensed as banks or other deposit taking institutions. This has come to my knowledge recently.

Read full submission


Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.


  1. The following extract from William Layneโ€™s paper is instructive and has been made several times on BU:

    However, it is noteworthy that even though the Statutory Fund was in deficit, there is no mention of this in any of the audited statements. The estimated deficit of BAICO Barbados is some Bds$48.


  2. I note that Sanford is facing 20 years or more. Can we conclude that some one some where else could look to face some number of years as well? i say let justice be done though the heaven may fall. We need to get to the wrong doers and show them the way forward. We have all continued to lose in this debacle and many of us have lost much. I am pained by the treatment of every one . who must suffer in silience.. Vengence is mine.


  3. It is obvious that the patient had been suffering from a terminal disease for some time but the surgeons were unwilling or reluctant to perform the radical surgery to ensure that there was the possibility of survival. Now the patient is dead they are trying to preserve it cryogenically to fool some of the people that it will be resurrected some time in the future. After all this who would put money in any Corporation with the name of CLICO or any entity arising from its ashes?

    Layne touched on the point about donations from CLICO and its subsidiaries to political parties in the OECS, Barbados and Trinidad; therein lies the rub the politicians were bought and silenced and looked the other way given the time line of the events transpiring at CLICO Trinidad. CLICO Trinidad was playing both sides of the political fence and I suspect the same was true for CLICO Barbados.

    So much blame to go around, the Politicians; The Auditors; The Directors which brings me to the Sarbanes/Oxley Act which was enacted in the USA to provide new Accounting Standards for Auditors and additional Corporate responsibilities for members of the Boards of public Companies. Pity there is no such act in the Caribbean otherwise the Auditors and The Directors would be shaking in their boots.

    BTW if a Company is prohibited from performing some function by a Govโ€™t Agency, isnโ€™t it the responsibility of the Agency to inform the public? How else would the public know? This is done on a routine basis by small operating companies in Barbados and the Govโ€™t canโ€™t get its act together?

    @ David

    1)The article ended rather abruptly I was expecting more. 2) What period of time did the investigation by the JM cover?


  4. The article ended abruptly because the whole point of the article is that somebody should get lock up. All the rest of it was mere fluff.


  5. I trust that in light of the Clico scandal and the BLP quest for Integrity legislation and their members lining up to declare their assets, the BLP will also declare all political donations before the next election.

    This would be real Integrity.

  6. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    The Right Honourable Owen Seymour Arthur is a member of the Privy Council of the United Kingdom. The Queen, Elizabeth 11 is the head of that body.
    Here we have a country called Barbados pretending to practice the Westminster form of government under a Constitution Monarchical system in which the Head of State is her Royal Highness represented locally by a viceroy in the form of a Governor General (GG). It is not a Dictatorship or at least not yet a โ€œbanana Republic.
    The only way citizens can have faith and confidence in this system of government is through respect for the LAW earned by the State by way of its upholding and enforcing the said LAW. When this principle is set aside and the law flouted with impunity then a recipe for chaos and social dislocation would be concocted.
    The ordinary still law abiding citizens of this Land that boasts of one of the highest rates of literacy and almost 61 years of adult suffrage are calling on you the Rt. Hon. Owen Arthur to use your privileged position in the Privy Council to raise this matter in that esteemed Court. The CCJ is not empowered to โ€œruleโ€ since the matter has not yet been referred by one of its signatory members. Neither do we expect any of these puppet or โ€œMickey Mouseโ€ administrations to adhere to their constitutional responsibilities.

    Please Sir, the Rt. Hon. Owen S. Arthur, a long standing member of Her Majesty’s Most Honourable Privy Council, make a plea on the behalf of us common citizens who are only asking the Barbados Government under the leadership of the Honourable Freundel Stuart, QC to follow through on his oath to adhere, uphold and enforce the laws of the Land without fear or favour.

    By making this plea on behalf of the subjects maybe Her Royal Highness, in recognition of our 60 years of unswerving loyalty to her and her dominion, would prepare an appropriately worded dispatch to her โ€œin situโ€ representative for onward transmission to her locally appointed Prime Minister with the obvious instruction to โ€œfollow the Law of the Islandโ€ as bequeathed and created by โ€œIndependenceโ€ status in a way that would bring justice to the commoner and harmony in the realm. Your Rt. Hon. Owen S. Arthur please let Your Highness know that the natives are getting restless!


  7. William Skinner hits the mail on the head. Here is the last paragraph:

    “Finally citizens must demand that where corporate executives are by their fraudulent actions responsible for the demise of corporations, then the full weight of the law is brought to bear on such persons. Madoff is in jail, Stanford is in jail, David Smith is in jail, but no one in the Eastern Caribbean has been brought before the courts for the pain and suffering caused by the collapse of CL. Financial and BAICO. We have the ridiculous situation of the Executive Chairman of CLICO International Life Barbados bringing an action against the Company for nonpayment of bonus payments, while policy-holders cannot receive what is due to them.”


  8. miller

    O$A better approach the monarch before her son takes over.

    He has let it be known that he doesn’t approve of adulterers so we could hardly expect him to stray from his principled position!!

  9. Bajan to d Bone Avatar
    Bajan to d Bone

    Thank you William Layne for an excellent, well researched article.

    Let us hope that our law makers are listening and that our fellow Bajans will take the wider point that state funded elections will minimize a lot of the corruption and undue influence ’bout here.

    Off topic – my condolences to Keith Rayside’s widow and his family.


  10. Here is what the author says on the issue of campaign financing:

    We need also to rethink the way political parties are financed. In Jamaica, the Gleaner newspaper of April 19, 2011, stated that the political parties who received money from Olint should repay it to the depositors who have lost their money in the entity. The editorial stated only the politicians would have benefitted. The same can be said about the political parties in Barbados, Trinidad and the OECS who received donations from CLICO and its subsidiaries. This practice can constitute a dangerous assault on democracy in small societies. Maybe the time is ripe for the states in these small countries to provide financing to the political parties and ban other contributions.

  11. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ John | March 7, 2012 at 12:35 AM |

    But isn’t this a perfect example of the ‘kettle calling the pot black” or is it the other way around?
    What a laugh, these politicians are! But to top it all off some become ministers only to confirm the ordinary man’s suspicions of the genuineness of the instruction: “Do as I say and not as I do” coming from the men of the cloth who display similar characteristics as those temporal ministers with only the votes in sight.


  12. 12 Lessons to be learnt

    1. If it sounds too good to be true , then it isn’t true!
    2. Do some DETECTIVE WUK, and I mean look and see how the executives and directors living and ask pertinent questions. PLEASE DO NOT CALL MY NAME EFF DEM KETCH YUH PEEPING TRU DEM WINDOWS. BE DISCREET! IF DEM LIVING HIGH, IT ENT DEM MONEY DEM SPENDING! PLEASE RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN.
    3. If any LAWYERS ARE INVOLVED, RUN AS FAST AS YUH FEET WOULD CARRY YUH!
    4. Check out how DE WIVES AN WIMMEN of the executives living and where dem does shop. IF DEM LIVING HIGH IT ENT DEM MONEY DEM SPENDING!
    5. If yuh GOVERNMENT SAY IT IS A GOOD TING TEK YUH MONEY AN PUT IT IN AN UTM*
    6. EFF TOO many BLACK PEOPLE involved RUN FUH YUH LIFE!
    7. EFF TOO MANY WHITE PEOPLE involved RUN FUH YUH LIFE!
    8. EFF TOO MANY INDIANS involved RUN FUH YUH LIFE
    9. EFF YUH WANT YUH MONEY TO GROW, PLANT IT ON SOME PIECE OF LAND.
    10. WHEN MONEY IS SITTING IN ANY INSTITUTION, IT IS VERY TEMPTING FOR DEM PEOPLE DAT DOES WUK DERE. DEM DOES BE TEMPTED TO USE YUH MONEY FUH DEM USES.
    11. DO NOT PUT ALL WUNNA CHERRIES IN ONE TOT, EFF ONE BAD DE WHOLE LOT GINE SPOIL.
    12. EFF YUH IS A WOMAN AN YUH MAN TELL YUH IT IS A GOOD INVESTMENT TELL HE TO PUT HE OWN IN FUH YOU! EFF IT IS A GOOD ONE WUNNA CUD SHARE DE PROFITS —70 SHE-30 HE.

    * UTM—Under the mattress.


  13. miller thanks for your information of the duties and responsibilities Directors of Boards under the Companies Act. Seems to me from my limited knowledge that Section 96- 4(a) (b) still absolves the Directors of blame under certain circumstances cand offers them some way out. would like to hear from Mr Franklyn in this regard.


  14. The CLICO PROS paid for their Gigolos political campaigns in return for a blind eye to squandering of Policy holder”s monies. How can these Gigolos refuse a well endowed Mistress? Prostitution is illegal in many countries for the man on the street BUT NOT for many who occupy our highest office. THEY CALL IT FUNDING WE CALL IT FU–ING


  15. and the worst part is that with all that is being brought to the public attention in the article bajans are stilling looking for leadership from some of the very politicians who looked the other way in theClico debacle.


  16. Note that the CLICO mess is an issue for the Caribbean. It is the point which Layne makes repeatedly. In Barbados we had different actors playing the scrip but the Executive Produce remained the Regulator.

    What changes/amendments have been ,ade to the regulatory system post CLICO debacle?


  17. And because it is a caribbean issue DT’s and LP’s estates will not escape.

    The OECS legal wolves will soon come a calling and will scrape every remaining piece of flesh from the CLICO entities in Barbados.


  18. this was all laid out in the wikileaks cable by peter wickham. the influnces and corruption and buying favours.


  19. The BLP meeting was on Sunday- No new astounding revelations, the same political gamesmanship but the BLP PR paper – The Nation has run EIGHT (8) STORIES from the same political meeting over the last 3 days. That’s right EIGHT.
    You see why they are called the BLP’s PR firm.

    The meeting was carried on CBC tv on Monday and on VOB up to yesterday in Sagicor business section.
    The Nation is on full BLP spin- Sanka today, Mascoll on Thursday, I would not be surprised if they call each other and coordinate their stories.
    Sanka is truly a S.ad A.nd N.aughty K.nown A.ssociate of the BLP.
    Mascoll is cordinating his talking points for Thursday and we can all predict what Brandford and Hoyos will say before we see it. Remember Mascoll’s weekly meetings with Branford.
    The Nation should just report and let us decide but NO WAY-8 stories from one political meeting. They would never extend such a courtesy to this government.
    The Nation has taken balanced journalism to a new low.


  20. CORRUPTION, evil, wicked INTENT, is ROOTED deeply in the heart of ALL mankind, just varying from person to person, manifested in different degrees, under different circumstances, and it HAS NO COLOUR, it IS* our SIN NATURE, that can only be cleansed by the Atoning Blood of Jesus Christ!

    “For from within, out of the hearts of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, sexual sins, murders, THEFTS,”

    Young’s Literal Translation
    “For from within, out of the heart of men, the evil REASONINGS do come forth, adulteries, whoredoms, murders,”

    Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible

    “For from within, out of the heart of man,…. The inside of man is very bad, his inward part is not only wicked, but wickedness itself, yea, very wickedness, Psalm 5:9, in him dwells no good thing naturally, his heart is wicked, and desperately so; it is full of evil; and out of the abundance of it, proceed the evil things hereafter mentioned; all its powers and faculties are vitiated, there is no place clean; the understanding and judgment are DREADFULLY CORUPTED; the mind and conscience are DEFILED; the affections are inordinate; not only the thought, but every imagination of the thought of the heart is evil, and that continually: what good thing therefore, can come out of such a Nazareth as this? Nothing, but what follows: for from hence proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders; which several things are related in Mat_. 15:19 see the note on Matthew 15:19; only the order here is a little different; “murders”, which are here mentioned last, are there put after “evil thoughts”.

    ——————————————————————————–

    ——————————————————————————–
    Geneva Study Bible

    For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

    ——————————————————————————–
    Matthew Henry’s Concise Commentary

    7:14-23 Our wicked thoughts and affections, words and actions, defile us, and these only. As a corrupt fountain sends forth corrupt streams, so does a corrupt heart send forth corrupt reasonings, corrupt appetites and passions, and all the wicked words and actions that come from them. A spiritual understanding of the law of God, and a sense of the evil of sin, will cause a man to seek for the grace of the Holy Spirit, to keep down the evil thoughts and affections that work within.

    Psalm 119:36 Turn my heart toward your statutes and not toward selfish gain.
    ——————————————————————————–
    Proverbs 4:23 Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.
    ——————————————————————————–
    Isaiah 59:7 Their feet rush into sin; they are swift to shed innocent blood. Their thoughts are evil thoughts; ruin and destruction mark their ways.
    ——————————————————————————–
    Isaiah 59:13 rebellion and treachery against the LORD, turning our backs on our God, fomenting oppression and revolt, uttering lies our hearts have conceived.
    ——————————————————————————–
    Jeremiah 16:12 But you have behaved more wickedly than your fathers. See how each of you is following the stubbornness of his evil heart instead of obeying me.
    ——————————————————————————–
    Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
    ——————————————————————————–
    Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
    ——————————————————————————–
    Mark 7:20 He went on: “What comes out of a man is what makes him ‘unclean.’
    ——————————————————————————–
    Mark 7:22 GREED, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly.
    ——————————————————————————–
    Colossians 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and GREED, which is idolatry.
    New International Version ยฉ1984 by Biblica

    Adulteries Adultery Evil Fornication Fornications Forth Heart Hearts Immorality Inside Men’s Murder Murders Pleasures Proceed Purposes Reasonings Sexual Sins THEFT, THEFTS, Thoughts Unclean Whoredoms Within

  21. Justin Robinson Avatar
    Justin Robinson

    As an academic who specializes in Finance one of the things that has stood out for me is the number of investors who seem unaware of, or choose to ignore the relationship between risk and return. Almost all investors I have spoken to say that they were attracted to various products because of the relatively higher returns. What does not seen to factor into their investment choices is that relatively higher returns typically comes with relatively higher risk, however, credible the institution offering the product is.

    If an entity offers you a 9% annual return, then if that entity is to cover its costs and earn a profit margin, the funds would have to be invested in assets (if they are legitimately invested) generating an average annual return of at least say 14%. In our markets (almost any market) such returns typically comes with relatively high levels of risk. Investors would have to carefully decide how much of say their pension money they would want to invest in such products, which by the very high returns they offer should be telling you that they carry relatively higher levels of risk. I hope this aspect of thestory does not get lost among the more juicy aspects.


  22. @Dr Robinson

    Your posit is correct and it is one which BU has advanced.

    However we have to present a 360 view of the CLICO issue. There was catastrophic regulatory failure, there was an incestuous network of relationships which conspire to mask the problems from the public, these relations straddle political boundaries and private interest.

    The fact is the CLICO matter cannot be view through the lens of an investor.


  23. Three years hence are we happy that the Financial Services Commission (FSC) is empowered to prevent another CLICO?

    We need to move pass the political cackle and get proactive. We are told we are an educated people. Is there another version of the CLICO Mess out there?

    As a people and as a society we need to step up to the challenge of doing better!

  24. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ David | March 7, 2012 at 11:39 AM |
    “Is there another version of the CLICO Mess out there?”

    Seems so! Another teetering giant whose honchos along with a bloated executive class have been living large off the hog for sometime now. But as the long suffering draught donkey told the fatted pig in the farmer’s cart on the way to market: “Sweet life ain’t long life”.
    The days are fast approaching when the insurance and annuity contracts sold to the โ€œbaby boomers generation (born in the 50โ€™s, educated and started working and saving in the 60โ€™s & 70โ€™s) would be due for settlement within a โ€œspikedโ€ timeline and within a financial framework in which exist a depressed real estate market and growing lack of interest in the trade of governmentโ€™s securities and other Treasury paper.

  25. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Observer:

    Heard that you got a special reference today on the popular โ€˜Brass-tacksโ€™ show. Your legal illumination has really caught the eyes of the mainstream media. Perhaps it’s the intellectual goading of the miller that has awaken the sleeping giant within you. You even managed to get the miller to agree with you in the matter of the role and responsibilities of the former office of the SoI in relation to the Minster of Finance and by extension the Cabinet under our form of “collective executive” responsibility governance system.

    Seems as if this blogging place is becoming a very serious interest group and lobby force to reckon with.
    Well done, Observer. The BU family members are very proud of you!


  26. @nationnewspaper”
    The Nation is on full BLP spin- Sanka today, Mascoll on Thursday, I would not be surprised if they call each other and coordinate their stories.
    Sanka is truly a S.ad A.nd N.aughty K.nown A.ssociate of the BLP.
    Mascoll is cordinating his talking points for Thursday and we can all predict what Brandford and Hoyos will say before we see it. Remember Mascollโ€™s weekly meetings with Branford.
    The Nation should just report and let us decide but NO WAY-8 stories from one political meeting. They would never extend such a courtesy to this government.
    The Nation has taken balanced journalism to a new low”…………………….

    Must every man jack support the DLP? You have DLPTV to yourself, the Advocate supports the DLP to the hilt. Put some more of your henchmen in there to write columns for the DLP and stop complaining. Your are very boring!


  27. @Jeff Cumberbatch

    BU regrets that after being elevated to Commissioner at the Financial Services Commission the BU family has been robbed of your erudite interventions. Suspect you still find time to follow the commentary and urge you to galvanize you colleagues to agree to speak to the state of the insurance industry in Barbados.

    Are there insurance companies which are operating below legal and performance requirements? What about those whose financials have been tardy to publish? What about those companies which have Holding Companies? Have we leveraged against any learning from the CLICO MESS?


  28. @Justin Robinson | March 7, 2012 at 11:08 AM |

    As an academic who specializes in Finance one of the things that has stood out for me is the number of investors who seem unaware of, or choose to ignore the relationship between risk and return. Almost all investors I have spoken to say that they were attracted to various products because of the relatively higher returns. What does not seen to factor into their investment choices is that relatively higher returns typically comes with relatively higher risk, however, credible the institution offering the product is…………………

    Bearing this in mind, can you tell the public how high risk is the MILLIONS of our NIS funds that you as Deputy Chairman of the NIS sat down and agreed to invest in the Four Seasons Project against the advice of the Investment Committee and which the majority of Barbadians object to strongly? Even though the majority have said that Four Seasons is a black hole into which you are pouring millions, CAN YOU TELL THE PUBLIC if quoting your own words ” the number of investors who seem unaware of, or choose to ignore the relationship between risk and return”…… Did you take this advice to Chris Sinckler when you decided to bend under his pressure?

    We the investors in the NIS would like to know.


  29. But considering that not too many of the liitle guys who these policies are being sold to don.t understand how the financial markets operate most of the time the buyer buys the police only based on the return which sounds good absent of the fact that they can also lose.most policyholders never give that a second thought until it is too late

  30. Justin Robinson Avatar
    Justin Robinson

    There is a lot of blame to go around, I am simply trying to highlight the investment aspect which I think has been lost so far in the debate.

  31. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Justin Robinson | March 7, 2012 at 11:08 AM |

    What you described is called ‘financial prudence’; an axiom mentioned early on in any training module of basic Finance. For the layman it’s called ‘common sense’. The bigger the expected profit from any venture or more attractive the product the higher the concomitant risks or cost.

    Life insurance products and invested pension contributions are not meant to be highly speculative in nature. Hence the long-term horizon and generally low but consistent rates of returns. It is not right therefore for those entrusted with the management of these funds to play โ€œcasino royaleโ€ and totally usurp their fiduciary responsibilities . If such gambling moves- buttressed by lavish lifestyles incapable of being financially supported on the agreed fund managersโ€™ fees- are undertaken then one can conclude that they were not โ€œriskyโ€ ventures but bordering on downright fraud and misappropriation of policyholderโ€™s money.

    The EFPAโ€™s could indeed meet the speculative criteria you mentioned and as a result could be subject to the vagaries and risky outcomes of the financial markets. But the question to be asked is this: Were these financial products marketed as insurance-type investment instruments subject to regulatory constraint and thereby ensuring a measure of security of return?
    If these EFPA products did not receive the โ€˜blessingsโ€™ of the Regulators why were they not marketed as โ€œmedium-termโ€™ certificates of deposits (CDโ€™s) with their attendant risks of speculative high rewards or irrecoverable losses?

    PS: Since your first man the marshal(l) has gone underground could you tell us what is the status of the financial statements for the various NIS funds as promised via a Press Release issued last year?


  32. @Dr Robinson

    Agree but such a discussion many regard as moot because of the obvious culpability of relevant bodies including governments.

  33. Justin Robinson Avatar
    Justin Robinson

    Whatever the failures of the regulators, investors should be encouraged to take a careful look at the risk profile of the investments they are undertaking and what portion of their portfolio to allocate to various investments.

    Whatever the quality of the institution or the level of regulation all investments carry risks and Investments will go bad from time to time. Diversification is one of the best means of protecting yourself. A number of folks seems to have put all their money in one place for example. As a general rule you should avoid this.

    Don’t think I am downplaying the other issues, but this is also a pertinent side to the whole affair.


  34. Is there an explanation why pension funds invested in CIL are said to be at risk when best in class insurance companies are known to utilize a segregated funds policy?

  35. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Prodigal Son | March 7, 2012 at 1:37 PM |
    “CAN YOU TELL THE PUBLIC if quoting your own words โ€ the number of investors who seem unaware of, or choose to ignore the relationship between risk and returnโ€โ€ฆโ€ฆ Did you take this advice to Chris Sinckler when you decided to bend under his pressure?”

    Prodigal, don’t expect a specific response from jr. He is certainly misled into thinking that by presenting himself as some guru of theoretical Finance & Business he can be accepted as the paragon of objective analysis, informed judgment and only here to educate the layperson and enlightened those keen to imbibe his esoteric knowledge and wisdom. People like yourself rely on good old commonsense and the ability to sniff out a rat from afar. Not bullshit from the hill.

    We would rather listen to Gearbox than to entertain one line of hypocritical advice from a sycophant indiscriminately prepared to compromise the principle of Integrity rather than vacate a position no objective intellectual with a modicum of competence would wish to retain.
    Show us the money (NIS financials) and we would listen to any investment proposal or option for any four seasons of the business cycle.

  36. Justin Robinson Avatar
    Justin Robinson

    Segregating funds does not remove the risk from the underlying assets, that the funds are invested in.


  37. Give us an Investment 101.

    CIL receives pension contributions which it invests.

    We are not discussing the EFAP.

    Why can’t those investments be segregated?

  38. Justin Robinson Avatar
    Justin Robinson

    The two products clearly carry different risks from the viewpoint of an investor. The funds can be segregated within the organization, however, it is not clear to me, why if there is a bankruptcy and a liquidation of assets that pension investments would be senior to EFPAS.

  39. old onion bags Avatar
    old onion bags

    Segregated funds are just funds that may be put SEPERATE from other funds…(.like another bank ac )..but still attract same WACCrisk.. as other monies being kept by firm.
    Term segregated funds is uaually associated with Govt accounting and NGO’s.
    For a profit oriented firm like CLICO….just jaga.

  40. old onion bags Avatar
    old onion bags

    WACC weighed average cost of capital


  41. @Dr. Robinson

    Assumed that you followed that a segregated pension fund would have to be housed under a unit trust to defend the fund from the balance sheet of the company.

  42. Justin Robinson Avatar
    Justin Robinson

    I see your point, but its not clear that in the context of a consolidation of the financials for the entire firm that pension liabilities would necessarily rank above EFPAs in a liquidation.

  43. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @Justin Robinson | March 7, 2012 at 3:39 PM |
    “I see your point, but its not clear that in the context of a consolidation of the financials for the entire firm that pension liabilities would necessarily rank above EFPAs in a liquidation

    Yes, pension funds would have priority over unregistered or approved EFPAs in a liquidation. Pension funds if registered would take priority over a non-regulated investment instrument. The question you must address is: Were these EFPAs approved by the SoI and other regulatory agencies as fit and proper annuities that would be subject to the Statutory Fund requirements? If approved then they would have the same status as the pension funds but below life insurance contracts.

  44. Justin Robinson Avatar
    Justin Robinson

    agreed.


  45. @Miller

    Agree with you because the idea of setting up a unit trust and benefit from tax exemption is to shield the fund from the balance sheet of the company in the event it heads south.

    This begs the question to Dr Robinson’s point why companies and individuals would invest in pension plans owned by companies which don’t bother to shield the fund.


  46. I noticed Dr.Robinson still has not answered the question posed by Prodigal Son. Surprise not!!!

  47. Justin Robinson Avatar
    Justin Robinson

    I hope the financial savvy aspect of the debate does not get lost among the other bigger issues.

    Diversification is key to managing the inevitable risks of investments.

    I think the aversion to investing in stocks makes persons especially vulnerable to products offering fixed rates of returns.


  48. @Dr. Robinson

    Don’t mean to put you on the spot but how do you support the focus on a investment strategy which matches risk and return with the decision taken to invest in the Four Season? Is it true to say that the decision to invest in the Four Seasons has more to do with its shovel readiness to create stimulus rather than ROI?

  49. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ David:

    Dr. Robinson made the following statement:
    “Segregating funds does not remove the risk from the underlying assets, that the funds are invested in.”

    There is validity in what is said. Let us assume that say 25% of the various funds is placed in very low risk (low returns) instruments, e.g. government bonds, Treasury notes, shares in utility companies (BL&P). Then the other 75% (if not spent on executive high living and funding political campaigns) would be invested in much more risky ventures such as real estate, agri-business, manufacturing, wholesale & retailing ventures, financial services (banking and commercial insurance).
    Now let us accept that the other 75% that is subject to the vagaries of the market and economic boom and bust cycle. The question is:
    Did CLICO suffer the ravages of market forces to such an extent that at least 75% of its investment portfolio was seriously compromised resulting in losses (negative returns) to these various funds? If so, why only CLICO? What about the other major player? If market forces are to be blamed instead of management excesses and tainted deals leading to alleged corruption and fraudulent activity can we expect a similar virus from the market to affect the other major player’s investment portfolio? Or is this other major player so well inoculated as to withstand any attack of its investment firewall and possible infiltration to spread the malware to the its overvalued asset portfolio?

  50. Justin Robinson Avatar
    Justin Robinson

    Well the bloggers kinda have me on the spot.

    I think along with the risk/return profile of a particular investment, risk should be viewed in a portfolio context, in terms of the share of the portfolio allocated to various asset classes so as to spread risk, and the size of an investment relative to the size of the fund. In such a context I find the risk/return profile of Four seasons acceptable. But I have the greatest respect for the sincerity of those who do not share that view and respect their right to state their view in the strongest manner possible. After all, its their pension money.

The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading