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Submitted by Terence Blackett

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In my Fatherโ€™s House are many mansions and if it were not so I would have told youโ€ฆJohn 14:2

 

In 1972, Beatle – John Lennon released the most famous song ever recorded by any human being with words that ominously ask us to -“Imagine there’s no Heaven, it’s easy if you try, no hell below us, above us only sky, imagine all the people, living for today…”

4 decades later, on Monday May 16th 2011, (reported in Reuters) ahead of the Google Zeitgeist meeting in London where speakers included British finance minister George Osborne and Nobel prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz found imminent physicist Stephen Hawking hogging the limelight ahead of an all-important speech. Before the meeting, Hawking was asked to address the question – “Why are we here?”

Hawking argued that โ€œtiny quantum fluctuations in the very early universe sowed the seeds of human life.โ€ He suggested that – “Heaven is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.โ€ He said “I have lived with the prospect of an early death for the last 49 years. I’m not afraid of death, but I’m in no hurry to die. I have so much I want to do first,” he told the Guardian newspaper. “I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.” When asked how we should live he said: “We should seek the greatest value of our action.”

What a thought-provoking statement by Hawking but more so his comment that – “We should seek the greatest value of our action” which presupposes that life is utilitarian in its ethos yet it is somehow peppered with Aristotelian philosophical strands. One wonders at time if Horganโ€™s words do have a merit of truth where he says that guys like Hawking are a kind of โ€œcosmic comic performance artist who loves goofing on his fellow physicists and the rest of us.โ€ But is he goofing around or is he positing a serious philosophical slant which has its roots in classical literature? Or is Hawking indirectly admitting that there is an epistemological conundrum which for 1000โ€™s of years remains unresolved as to why we are really here on this planet?

Letโ€™s attempt to answer Hawking & Co. by looking at what ancient philosophy has taught us and how has science helped to undermine or bolster those positions?

As early as the 1820โ€™s the Universe was thought to be 6000 years old. It is now thought to be some 14 billions years old with dimensions of some 150 billion trillion miles across at it nearest point and ad infinitum at its farthest. In our own galaxy, if one were to travel across it at the speed of light (186,000 miles per second) it would take over 100,000 years from one end to another. And if according to astrophysicists, in the universe every 88 gallons of space contains one atom and the furthest back into the universe you look โ€“ the more the past emerges into the future, is it even possible to explain life at the subatomic level where we enter the nexus of the Divine? These are some of the questions which science is incapable of answering.

So what about the age-old question that has baffled philosophers, scientists and even sceptics since time immemorial? Why are we here? What is the role of man in the grand schema? And how does the pervasive logic of zeitgeist in an age of moral relativism infringe on Biblical truth, where men laud this idea that there is no distinct or Absolute Truth, underpinned by this notion that all roads lead to home and that โ€œtruthโ€ is whatever we individually conceive it to be?

Today, most of our philosophical strands of ideas have emerged out of classical, modernists and postmodernist theory. However, these philosophical perspectives on the meaning of life find their ideological basis in terms of ideals or abstractions defined by fallible human beings.

Classical philosophy for example, was shaped by the narrative of the Batman & Robin of their time (Plato & Aristotle) who believed that the meaning of life is in attaining the highest form of knowledge, which is the Idea (Form) of the Good, from which all good and just things derive utility and value (sounding much like Hawkingโ€™s position).

Human beings are duty-bound to pursue the good, but no one can succeed in that pursuit without philosophical reasoning, which allows for true knowledge. Aristotle arrived at this philosophical slant called being โ€œvirtuousโ€ where – “Every skill and every inquiry, and similarly, every action and choice of action, is thought to have some good as its object. This is why the good has rightly been defined as the object of all endeavours… Everything is done with a goal, and that goal is ‘good’”.

And so classical philosophy took on many myriad forms moving from Aristotelian to the era of the Cynic philosophers to the Socratic school of Cyrenaics, to the Epicureans and to the Stoics who occupied Mars Hills in the days of Paul the Apostle when he confronted them about their statute to the Unknown God (Acts 17:16-34).

With the advent of the Enlightenment Period, science and philosophy entered a new frontier of discovery, with each discipline fighting over inch of pre-modernist terrain. Classical liberalism during these centuries became a harbinger for the clash of civilizations which would continue for another 200 years where the tensions between devotion and subservience to God were largely replaced by notions of empirical science, inalienable natural rights and the potentialities of reason, and universal ideals of love and compassion which gave way to civic notions of freedom, equality, and citizenship.

The Enlightenment ideals were borne out of conflicts between a growing, wealthy, propertied bourgeois class and the established aristocratic and religious orders that dominated Europe and the then known world. Subsequent philosophies of Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau and Adam Smith were to be overshadowed by Kantโ€™s Categorical Imperative and to finally give rise to the 19th century paradigms of the Utilitarianism of Bentham & Stuart-Mills et al.

These classical forms of Zeitgeist hardly lacked spokespersons โ€“ merely for the simple fact that there have always been those who do not believe. Science continued to trumpet the fact that the Church has always been on the wrong side of the debate. Case in point, when Galileo began to explore and explain the theories of Copernicus about space and planetary orbits and that the sun was the center of our solar system with the earth travelling around it โ€“ the Roman Church was angered. This went against the contraventions of 15th century interpretation of the Bible by the Roman Catholic priesthood. Galileo was harshly treated and placed under house arrest. Galileo died in 1642 and it took [350] years for the Vatican to pardon and expunge his name as a โ€œHERETICโ€. Science has never let the church forget the Galileo blunder! So astrophysicists, theoretical scientists and others have concluded that religion is the adversary of reason and have expelled the church from the halls of academic credibility.

During the 18th century, a young French philosopher named Francois-Marie Arouet writings reached the king of France and in his anger had him committed to the Bastille. That 21 year old young man while locked away for no crime other than for the crime of positing another form of philosophical reasoning chose the pen name VOLTAIRE* and as Will Durant in his book โ€“ The Story of Philosophy quotes Victor Hugo: โ€œTo name Voltaire is to characterize the entire 18th century. Italy had a Renaissance, and Germany had a Reformation, but France had Voltaire; he was for his country both Renaissance and Reformation, and half the Revolution. With Voltaire, France began to think.โ€

Voltaire eventually escaped the Bastille and amongst his most famous writing was a play called โ€œCandideโ€ based on a fictionally inspired scholar called โ€œPanglossโ€* (a professor of Metaphysico-theologico-cosmologico-panology or more simply described as โ€œOPTIMISMโ€) – a play which caused most of France to start to question their faith.

Voltaire was an admirer of Isaac Newton (a devout Christian) but his dialectic thinking resulted in him questioning miracles, the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection โ€“ consequently ruling out these Biblical principles. His denunciation of organized religion and the clergy was to set the stage after his death in 1778 for the mayhem of the French Revolution – [15] years later. The Reign of Terror and the guillotine murdered thousands; Bibles were burned and the ominous words of Voltaire rang out across France that belief in God was useless. Three and a half years of disowning God proved that โ€œATHEISMโ€ in France was to be the path to ruin and abysmal destruction.

Atheism was further bolstered by Friedrich Nietzscheโ€™s characteristic nihilism – as emptying the world, and especially human existence, of meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, and essential value. This was the century where the final bulwarks were erected against God and the possibilities of any hope of Heaven. Hence German philosopher Freidrich Nietzsche assertion that โ€œGod is deadโ€ and the ensuing epoch where human reasoning and philosophy became the pre-eminent โ€œgospelโ€ of truth for men who sought an excuse to debunk God. In his book titled โ€œAntichristโ€ he write: โ€œI call Christianity the one great curse, the one enormous and innermost perversion, the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are too venomous, too underhand, too underground, and too petty.โ€

This was the son of Lutheran ministers on both sides of his family. The dark zeitgeist of Satanic infiltration met Nietzsche at his Waterloo. In the crushing crescendo of such โ€œgeniusโ€ Nietzsche fell off the wagon and spent the last [11] years of his life completely insane where the statement was coined โ€œGod is deadโ€ but before the door of his life closed he made one ominous prediction that โ€œthe 20th century would be the bloodiest in human historyโ€. Sure enough, historians recount the 180 million souls who perished through war, disease and displacement.

โ€œNietzsche had a final look at the kingdom erected by his own theories and it frankly terrified himโ€ His disciple Sigmund Freud studied his theories and created vast psychological models based on Nietzscheโ€™s atheism and so did Carl Jung. Whatโ€™s even more diabolical is the fact that the [3] most tyrannical political leaders of the 20th century (Joseph Stalin, Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler) devoured his writings with rabid fascination and malevolent zeal. And so the fruits of atheism created a pretty sober menu for the inhabitants of Europe during the last apocalyptic century.

โ€œThen as the world took a final destabilizing lurch toward the abyss with the arrival of Charles Darwinโ€, with his โ€œtheories of evolution and survival of the fittestโ€ โ€“ we witnessed the frontal assaults on the very existence of God as CREATOR*. Darwin quietly confesses with some anxiety how he slowly shed his belief in the Bible and in God. First to go was miracles because if something could not be verified by science it had to be abandoned. โ€œDisbelief crept over me at a very slow rate, but was at last complete,โ€ he admits. Karl Marx, a disciple of Darwin, found clarity and symmetry in the theories of evolution. Marx saw โ€œreligion as the opiate of the massesโ€. Marx even asked Darwin if he could dedicate his most prolific work โ€œDAS KAPITALโ€ to the British scientist and so he did.

The 20th century arrived with serious advances in science โ€“ a quantum leap into the beyond where in the last [100] years we have gone from sailing galleons to nuclear submarines; from Orville Wright to the possibilities of time-travel; from the alchemy of herbal concotions, shrubs and Hippocratic medicine to nanotechnology and space-age biotech discoveries. Mankind has finally emerged from the shores of early 20th century pragmatism, existentialism, absurdism, secular humanism, logical positivism, postmodernism, naturalistic pantheism and evolutionary psychology to a meaningless world of MORAL RELATIVISM* where there are no absolutes especially when it comes to Divine Truth, a Divine Designer or a primordial world tucked away in the 3rd Heavens where God The Creator exist in a place called Eternity โ€“ to many an โ€œimaginaryโ€ world brought on by delusionary Christian thinking.

In conclusion, 1950โ€™s Communist atheistic Russia were the 1st in space with their Sputnik rockets. In 1961 cosmonaut Gheman Titov while speaking to reporters, journalists and admirers at the World Fair that year boasted that: โ€œI never saw God up there.โ€ A young comedian in the crowd shouted back: โ€œIf youโ€™d just stepped out of your capsule for a closer look, you would have seen Him!โ€

Then in 1968, the United States Apollo 8 space program mission made the ultimate step for humanity by landing a man on the moon. While the world stayed gripped to their TV screens, in the words of Christian apologist Ravi Zacharias opined: โ€œThey saw Earth rise above the horizon of the moon, draped in a beauteous mixture of white and out of, bordered by the glistening light of the sun against the black void of spaceโ€ โ€“ and in the throes of that awe-inspiring moment those astronauts opened the pages of Genesis and read for the world to hear: โ€œIN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTHโ€ฆโ€

Here are the polarized opposites which we face in our world. Here are [2] groups of extremely bright, well-educated, scientifically-minded persons hurtling through the dark matter of space โ€“ one group sees nothing but a vacuum; the other sees the CREATIVE HAND of GOD*!

โ€œToday I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. I call on Heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, that you and your descendents may live.โ€ (Deut.30:19)

Choose LIFE!!!


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192 responses to “Why Are We Here? Atheism’s Narrative: Zeitgeist In An Age Of Moral Relativism And Where Deluded Scientists Inspire Men To Believe There Is No God Or No “HEAVEN””


  1. But Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens to live in, and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place even to lay his head.”


  2. The busshman has lost his bearings again. Am i to believe that a parents first instinct is not to protect their children even after giving them all the rules. Even the animals do everything possible to protect their siblings. A parents First and foremost INSTINCT is to PROTECT.Why do you think children all seem to think that the parent is always interfering with their lives. Well i don’t know of any parent who would sit idly by and watch their children stick their finger in a socket, I know many parents would cover that socket to avoid the child harming itself.But then again they are not “GOD”


  3. @ CH
    ….But, I would argue, the occasional nibble at the โ€œforbidden treeโ€ can be useful for enlightenment
    *************************************
    LOL. A common belief. ….Also explains why we have so many drug addicts -even when we can all see the likely consequences of becoming addicted ….
    What would you want for your son/daughter….?

    @ ac
    …thought you were finished with the busshman….?
    If you do not get the difference between a parents ROLE (which is what was written) and a parents INSTINCT (which you are talking about) then it is no wonder that Bushie cannot follow your logic….

    ….but your enthusiasm is admirable…


  4. @ Zoe
    “It remains true, that โ€˜The structure of justification, in defending any propositional TRUTH claim, IS* coherence, coherence IS* our sole criteria for TRUTH.โ€
    **********************************************
    What coherence what??!! you mean conformity to your particular theology however ridiculous the logic….

    Where do you get these things from Mr Zoe? BT finds you truly amazing – because, with your great knowledge of the Bible it is shocking how you (of all people) seem to so often come to conclusions that are opposite to simple clear bible positions.

    Did you read Geraldine’s contribution above…?
    Quote:
    โ€œFor the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, EVEN HIS eternal power and GODHEAD; so that they are without excuseโ€. Romans 1:20
    **********************
    Does that not in plain English say that the mysteries of truth can be CLEARLY seen in the everyday things around us ??? ….things like parenthood, like Lowdown’s farm; like the human family etc….
    What coherence what!!?

    Free up your mind Mr Zoe…


  5. bushman it is your prerogative not to reply as you so indicated previously . However I must say you do have a way with words! So my question would be which would be the driving force “Instinct”” or “Role” in order to set rules or activate a Role one must have a guideline to follow and our Instinct is what we used! Animals do not have the same ability and their Role is only through Instinct> without Instinct their is no ROLE.I am sorry my Advance way of thinking renders you heplessly!


  6. In other words Bushie . Instinct is what proples the mind in tellin us what to do. the role is secondary!


  7. @ ac
    In other words Bushie . Instinct is what proples the mind in tellin us what to do. the role is secondary!
    *************************************************************
    Perfectly true ac…..
    …if you are talking about animals, children or immature grownups. But intelligent, mature human adults tend (to various extents), to manage to focus more on role than instinct….

    for example
    ..the Bush man’s instinct right now would be to ‘peppa’ you, but his role is to respect David’s blog and to try to see your perspective…however dim…LOL


  8. @BT, ‘Reason (rational, cogent, objective THINKING!) is necessary for Revelation, (i.e., God’s Word, FACTS, evidence, etc) to be) COHERENT,’ understood, discerned, as revealed in its proper context.

    This obviously CANNOT be grasped b the ‘natural’ man, (de pseuchikos anthropos) i.e., like yourself BT, et al, as the unspiritual man, does NOT receive, does NOT accept, rejects, refuses to accept, the things of the ‘Spirit’ (The Holy Spirit) of God. Why not? For they are FOOLISHNESS to him, nor can he know (understand) them, Why not? Because they are spiritually discerned. (I Cor. 2: 14,15),

    However, the man that is indwelt by The Holy Spirit of God, through Salvation IN* Christ alone, “These things we also speak NOT in the words which man’s wisdom teaches, (NO!NO!NO!) BUT which the HOLY SPIRIT teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.” ( I Cor. 2: 13 Emphasis added.)

    Therefore, Jesus states:

    “The lamp of the body IS* the EYE, if therefore your eye is GOOD ( knows, understands, has received the things of God, through the Holy Spirit) your whole body will be full of LIGHT ( God’s Light of revelatory TRUTH) BUT, if your eye is BAD, your whole body will be full of DARKNESS. If therefore the light that IS in you IS* darkness, how great is that darkness.” ( Matt. 6:22 Emphasis added)

    BT, you are in darkness! Much spiritual DARKNESS!


  9. @ Zoe
    …OK – let’s follow your own logic for a bit…

    “One needs to be indwelt by God’s spirit in order to grasp these things…. “You are of course right about that….so
    What are the signs of God’s spirit as exemplified by such a person….

    Are these not things like love, patience, empathy, selflessness, and such characteristics…?
    Tell us how you demonstrate these signs Zoe….

    Does the word not also say that if one seeks FIRST the kingdom of heaven that “the other earthly things will be added unto you”….?
    …are you a millionaire?
    Do you have everything that you ever needed or wanted?

    How do we know that YOU benefit from the wisdom of God’s spirit unless we can clearly see the light of it’s fruits glowing from you….

    Be careful who you accuse of being in darkness -you may well be pointing most fingers back at yourself…


  10. Regarding Geraldine’s reference to Romans 1:20, that we can ‘understand’ the Godhead, has nothing to do with what BT, suggested, but when carefully read in its proper context, that is, from verses 19-32, it is a broad survey of the causes and consequences of heathenism. And, this section deals with and reveals that there is not ONLY a CRUDE* paganism*, an unblushing worship of man of graven images*; but, there is also a CULTURED* paganism, a worship by man of his OWN* godless imagination. As some did grovel at the foot of an IDOL* others worship at the shrine of an IDEAL* no different to modern day 21st century materialism, crass IDOLATRY, now minggled and deply embedded IN* cultural and moral RELATIVISM*

    In this didactic discourse, Plaul depicts THREE downward steps into paganism. First, there IS* willful BLINDNESS* a deliberate REJECTION of the TRUTH*. This is followed by WICKED BELIEFS* of either a rationalistic or religious* nature; just as we FIND here on BU. These, in turn lead to wanton behavior.

    God’s Witness IS* Unmistakable.

    Paul’s first point; “That which may be KNOWN of God IS* MANIFEST in them; for God has shewed IT* unto them.” (v. 19).

    God’s Witness IS* Universal.

    God has another WITNESS* to Himself besides the primeval revelation, a WITNESS* which CANNOT be corrupted by man – the WITNESS* of CREATION. Therefore, Paul declares:

    “The INVISIBLE things of Him FROM the CREATION of the WORLD, are CLEARLY* SEEN* being understood BY the THINGS* that are MADE* even His Eternal POWER* and Godhead. (v. 20 Emphasis added)

    Now, therefore, ALL men ARE* (1) Exposed to THIS* WITNESS* of CREATION (often called nature) God expects men to learn from NATURE* all around him, which REVEALS the TRUTH* of His eternal POWER and the TRUTH* of His Godhead.

    These TWO truths, properly learned, if mankind is honest, should result in a universal desire both to praise and to please God. The heavenly hosts ALONE, blazing in the sky, give ample TESTIMONY* to these two truths. And their witness IS* truly UNIVERSAL*.
    As Psalm 19 affirms that “the HEAVENS DECLARE the GLORY of God; and the firmament shew foth HIS* HANDIWORK…” There IS* NO* speech nor language, where their VOICE is NOT* heard.” Abraham Lincoln once said, “I can see how it might be possible fo a man to LOOK down upon the earth, and be an atheist, BUT I cannot conceive how he could LOOK UP into the HEAVENS and say there is no God.” One of the French revolutionaries boasted to a peasant; “We are going to pull down all that reminds you of God,” Said the peasant dryly, “Citizen, pull down the stars then.”

    However, Paul limits what can be learned about God from nature. Nature points to an Eternal, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omniprsent Crator, BUT, beynd that, its voice falters and fails. “There IS* a God” says nature, loudly and unmistakable, BUT, man NEEDS much more than that. Man NEEDS a a Personal* Redeemer, and nature CANNOT satisfy that need, for nature knows nothing of FORGIVENESS. Its rules are relentless and ruthless, visiting swift retribution on ALL infringement of its laws. It teaches no moral code. Nature has a voice, but it has no heart, and it offers NO solution to man’s greatest problem, that of SIN*. It makes no mention of a Savior. There can be no comparasion between God’s witness to Himself in Creation, and His WITNESS to Himself in Redemption. Creation will tell us somewhat of the work of His Hands. But, Calvary ALONE unveils His HEART.

    Yet, despite God’s unmistakable and UNIVERSAL* WITNESS*, some men still DENY the TRUTH, and become atheist; others sink still DEEPER, distort the TRUTH, and become idolaters. This is Paul’s next theme in the verses that follow on (vv. 21-25. (Exploring Romans, pp. 24, 25, 26, 27 Emphasis added.)


  11. @ Zoe

    …what Bush Tea told you about going on and on and on -and quoting scripture after scripture,….. and Greek….?


  12. @ BT, Once again, you are NOT* taking God’s Word, the Bible, in its entire and proper contextual teachings.

    You ask me, “Are not these things like love, patience, empathy, selflessness, such characteristics? Tell us how you demonstrate these signs.”

    Tell us Bush Tea, was not The Lord Jesus Christ, and His divinely Inspired Word, the Bible, tell us that HE WAS/IS* the personification of LOVE, patience, selflessness, and son on? Did He always go about peacefully, with patience, and emphaty, for everyone? Let us see from His Word, how HE* dealt with those that perverted the TRUTH.

    Let hear HIM* Jesus Christ, and His patience, love and empathy, for those who NEEDED to be told like it IS*.

    “But woe to you, scribes and Pharsees,….Woe to you BLIND guides…….FOOLS and BLIND…..BLIND Pharsees….. SERPENTS, brood of VIPERS! How can you escape the condemnation of HELL? (Matt. 23: 13, 16, 17, 33).

    Where these KIND, loving, patient oriented, emphatizing WORD, Bush Tea?

    Tell us BT, when Jesus said: “And He said to them, ‘Go TELL that FOX…(Herod) Luke 13:32), was that a nice thing to say? a Fox is a cunning animal, and Herod needed to be told the truth,, and JESUS called him a FOX! What that a loving, peacefull, thing to say?

    The Apostle Paul was probally the most Anointed one in the New Testament, after Jesus, he was used of God, and divinely Inspired to pen 2/3 of NT Scripture, wrote the most profound theological discourses EVER, led by the Holy Spirit, it was Paul who penned Gal 5:22, on the Fruit of the Holy Spirit, “…..love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control…..” Yetr, when there was need for stringing REBUKE, he did NOT hesitate to give it.

    “O FOOLISH Galations! Who has BEWITCHED you, that you should NOT obey the TRUTH….. ( Gal. 3: 1b Emphasis added).

    This was the same anointed Apostle of God, who no brings, a scathing REBUKE, in plain word, “O FOOLISH Galatians….”

    Again, when Paul needed to use appropriate language and words to describe, the ignorant, this he did, in divinely inspired and recorded Scripture, God’s Word, the Bible.

    “But if anyone is* IGNORANT* let him be IGNORANT*” ( I Cor. 14:m 38 Emphasis added).

    BT, you are a novice, when it comes to the FULL counsel of God’s Word, the Bible, you are constantly taking and lifting verses OUT of context, which then becomes a pretext, for your ignorance of IT*

    Oh, I almost forgot to answer you ignorant question re Matt 6:33, “Are you a millonaire.”

    BT, go and try and read this verse Matt 6:33, in its proper context, beginning at verse 25, to 34, and see if you can start to learn the meaning of ‘context’ and what Jesus said, about, “therefore do NOT worry about tomorrow…..” (v. 34).


  13. BT and while you are at it also try to read up on instinct and the way it helps all individuals make decisions . It is amazing how your kind of reasoning can become unreasonable. To think that only children and animals used instinct to make decisions is unbelievable. I suggest you take a class in psychology “Understanding the human mind and how it works”


  14. Thanks for the response to my question on God and his ability to repent. Unlike some I do not claim to know it all.

    However I do know that it is better to say a little and expose a little bit of ignorance than to say a great deal and exhibit an abundance of stupidity.

    My point is that any man, woman or child that believes everything written by any group of people, hundreds of years before them, without question, deserves what they get.

    Peace


  15. @ MAAT

    “My point is that any man, woman or child that believes everything written by any group of people, hundreds of years before them, without question, deserves what they get…”

    POINT WELL TAKEN!!!

    That is the reason why “every MUS* study to show himself approved, for every workman MUST* be able to rightfully divide the word of truth”…

    So STUDY, READ & UNDERSTAND for yourself!!!


  16. @ ZOE, BUSHMAN et al

    Just a side comment to say that ALL* of you guys possess powerful minds… Just to read your thoughts is astounding (and where there is disagreement over points of DOCTRINE, CONTEXTUALIZATION etc) it is still a JOY* to read my fellow Barbadians ability to elucidate knowledge is nothing short of powerful…

    Good, frank, spirited discussion even if we haven’t reached common ground… At least we keep on trying when others have fallen by the wayside because they refuse to put on their (AS DAVID) says – “THEIR OXYGEN TANKS”…


  17. In the SPIRIT of Love! I would llike to wish all the Fathers who have inspired their children and have found it upon themselves to be “true Leaders’ and excellent examples and role model to their children “HAPPY AND A BLESSED FATHERS DAY! continue to do the work


  18. @Matt….”My point is that any man, woman or child that believes everything written by any group of people, hundreds of years before them, without question, deserves what they get.”

    Brilliantly stated!


  19. Selective-Hyper-Skeptisim!!!


  20. The furthest distant on this planet is not the 24901.55 miles (40075.16 kilometers) around the Equator but the distance from the HUMAN BRAIN* to the HUMAN HEART*…

    Yes ZOE – CORRECT!!!

    SHS!!!!


  21. @ Zoe & Terence
    What SHS What??!!
    Maat may have a good point…. even things written in official documents, newspapers and on blogs like BU should be questioned, analyzed and assessed. but surely he can’t be suggesting that because something was written hundreds of years ago, it cannot be true today…
    Lots of things even written by ordinary men hundreds of years ago continue to be current standards – even literary and scientific principles….

    Also, Jesus said something very similar….Whosoever believe on me shall not perish…etc…. in other words, ‘..will get exactly what they deserve.”

    Finally, the Bushman has absolutely no regrets if his current situation is a result of believing (after serious questioning) what was written by these men hundreds of years ago….


  22. Hopefully the mature among us will always have questions and build belief into knowledge through experiences. When we were children we were led to believe that Santa and the tooth fairy were real, we could read about them in books. As we never experienced these things first hand we questioned them until we came to understand that the books and the people telling us about these characters were misleading us

    In this vein one could ask those who express total, unequivocal belief in the Bible to share with us their personal knowledge, through personal experience, of that which they proclaim to be true.

    Or do you simply believe the book?

    Peace


  23. The Something “mat is speaking of is that which is written in the bible. BT surly you can’t be comparing literature of a hundred years which was found through archaeologist and proven scientifically to what is written in the bible. that in itself is ludicrous. No one has yet proven the Virgin Birth! and i am yet to read or hear of another such birth in our time!


  24. Centre of the Bible, God’s Word.

    This is pretty strage how it worked out this way. even if you are not religious, you should read this.

    Q. What is the shortest chapter in the Bible?
    A. Psalm 117.

    Q. What is the longest chapter in the Bible?
    A. Psalm 119.

    Q. Which chapter is IN* the centre of the Bible?
    A. Psalm 118.

    FACTS: There ARE 594 chapters before Psalm 118. there ARE 594 chapters after Psalm 118,. Add these numbers up and you get 1,188.

    Q. What is the centre verse in the Bible?
    A. Psalm 118:8

    Does this verse say something significant about God’s perfect will for our lives?

    The next time someone says they would like to find God’s perfect will for their lives, and they want to be in the centre of His will, just send them to the centre of His Word.

    Psalms 118:8 (NKJV)

    “It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.”

    Now, isn’t that odd how this worked out…OR, was God in the centre of it?


  25. @ Maat
    Bush Tea, for one, “expresses total, unequivocal belief in the Bible”, but will be the very first to tell you that Bushie’s personal knowledge, through personal experience, would be very unlikely to convince you that YOU should believe likewise.

    BT’s approach was to commence by presuming that the Bible story was nothing more than a church equivalent to the Santa Claus tale…The major difference being the admonition to “SEEK -and you are guaranteed to find”
    KNOCK – and the door shall be opened unto you” ; ASK -and it shall be given”

    All Bushie can tell you is THAT APPROACH WORKED FOR BT.
    The biggest challenge was the preconceived ideas (like the Santa Clause type tales – the Trinity concepts etc) which got in the way finding the truth that was sought,; of accepting the truths that were freely given; and even in choosing to knock on the door of knowledge….

    Why not take a genuine decision to seek to find the truth and open your mind to the promise that should you truly Ask, Seek and knock – you will know one way or the other…. and then keep FAR from those trying to push their particular theology down your throat….LOL


  26. @ Zoe
    If you REALLY want to demonstrate the supernatural nature of the Bible you should explain to the BU family the recently discovered bible codes; – where computer analysis have turned up coded messages in the bible related to current and apparently future global issues……

    Worth a google and some research….

    Advanced beings created our world for a logical purpose and they inspired the bible to outline their strategic plans to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear… Simple as that.


  27. @BT My personal experiences prove to me that there is God. With no shadow of a doubt and like you, the fairy tale aspects of some stories cannot cause me to doubt my experiences.

    I like and liken your analogy of a door to the Bible as a gateway leading to a path. There is a light at the end of the path and the way to get to the light is by making the journey. If you stand at the gate, studying it, working out the intricacies of it’s design and invitation you will not make the journey, but simply be aware of it. The gate need not be perfect and one does not worship the door.

    One does not have to draw a mountain of faith from the Bible to start the journey, one does not need the burden of the door on the path to the light, the way is lit and becomes brighter and clearer with every step in the right direction.

    Here’s one for you. They say that the blind cannot lead the blind, because both would fall into a ditch (or something). Well I have seen different. More than once I have been traveling along Bay Street and witnessed a blind person with a white stick, leading another blind person without a stick. What can you make of that?

    Peace


  28. well will wonders ever cease! now the Bushman has conveniently asked Zoe for divine interference on his behalf. . Coded messages! LOL


  29. Can Weed enlighten you spiritually?


  30. @ ac
    .are you more than 16 years old?


  31. ========
    NO WAR
    YES REGGAE
    ========


  32. @maat, You cite two ‘physically’ blind people on Bay St, one leading the other, that’s not the same thing as Jesus’ teaching in Matt. 15: 1-20, where, again, reading the entire discourse in this section (vv.1-20) gives the ‘contextual’ understanding of Jesus answer to His disciples:

    “But He answered and said, ‘Every plant (i.e., person) which My heavenly Father has not planted will be UPROOTED.” (v.13)

    “Let them alone, (i.e., Pharisses, Scribes, et al false prophets, teachers) they are BLIND leaders of the BLIND. And if the BLIND leads the BLIND, both will fall into a ditch.” (v.14)

    Obviously and clearly, Jesus was specifically referring to the Pharisees and Scribes, whose ‘spiritual’ BLINDNESS* which did NOT allow them to SEE* PERCEIVE* and recognize HIM* as Messiah, He also spoke about FALSE prophets, in chapter 7: 15-20, who grew exponentially after the birth of the True Apostolic Church, and have continued to multiply right up until today, through the world, and they come in a variety of shades, ALL of them, essentially denying the central CORE* NT doctrines of the Deity* of Christ, that HE* IS* the eternal Son of God, the Only Saviour and Lord, that Salvtion IS* by GRACE* through FAITH* in HIM*,(Eph. 2:8-9)) not good works, ritualism, and dead formulism, (Rom. 3:20-24;4:5,16, Gal 3:11).

    The TRUTH Shall Make You Free.

    “Then Jesus said to those Jews who BELIEVED* Him. ‘If you ABIDE* (trust, keep to) My Word, you are My disciples indeed. AND you shall KNOW* the TRUTH* and the TRUTH* shall make you FREE*.” ( John 8: 31-32 Emphasis added).

    KNOW, is from ‘ginosko’ Compare ‘prognosis’ ‘gnomic,’ ‘gnomon,’ ‘gnostic’ To PERCEIVE, UNDERSTAND, RECOGNIZE, gain KNOWLEDGE, realize, come to KNOW* Ginosko is a knowledge that has an INCEPTION* a progress, and an attainment, it IS* the recognition of TRUTH* by personal experience. (Word Wealth).

    They are any number of seekers of truth, knowledge, over the ages, who have used Jesus imperative teaching from Matt. 7: 7,8) “Ask….Knock…Seek….” BUT, some of these seekers, have been terribly deceived by Satan, as they DID NOT Ask…Knock…..(Nor) Seek at the TRUE and ONLY DOOR* WAY* JESUS, hence Satan has cleaverly given and FED them, with, yes, pieces, and bits of truth, ever so WICKEDLY, laced in FALSITY, LIES, DECEPTION, and damnable heresy an FALSE doctrine.


  33. The Historic, Judaeo/Christian Worldview, unlike any other religious/secular World view IS* founded, established IN* and by Almighty God, divinely recorded in His Word, the Bible, overwhelmingly confirmed by ‘The Bibliographical Test’ ‘The Internal Evidence Test’ ‘The External Evidence Test’ and ‘Its Confirmation by Archaeology’ as to its reliability, and has stood up to the rigors of such examination, unparalleled with any other document of antiquity.

    Tons of literatue, from not only the Historical perspective, but from a “Legal” evidential perspective, in other words, based on ‘Evidence’ as presented in a Court of Law, have been carefully examined by some of the most eminent Jurists, Judges, brilliant Legal minds, regarding the NT documents, as to its veracity, truthfulness, trustworthiness, and they, Legally, Historically, and Logically, conclude, that it simply, CANNOT be refuted, by any honest mind.

    Now, regarding the TESTIMONY* WITNESS* of the VAST multiplied Hundreds , and Hundreds of MILLIONS, of genuine ‘believers’ those who WERE ‘spiritually’ regenerated, Justified, Born Again, FROM the Apostolic era, with Jesus, the actual ‘EYEWITNESSES’ who where WITH* HIM* and those who followed on, Century after Century, across every know ethnic, and cultural background, throughout every country, and right up until TODAY, in Russia, China, the Middle East, yes, even Muslims, Hindus, in India and Pakistan, are being LIBERATED from the bondage of ‘Religion’ to a Personal, Living, REAL, vibriant, relationship, with THE LORD JESUS CHRIST; all across Africa, South America, large numbers of those who found NO peace or purpose in their dead religions* are coming ALIVE* for the first time, IN* BY* and THROUGH* The Lord Jesus Christ.

    I would NOT exchange the unspeakable PEACE* JOY* PURPOSE* that Jesus has brought to my LIFE,, for ANYTHING in this world, AND, this also, IS* the consistant WITNESS* and TESTIMONY* of my Brothers and Sisters, IN* Christ Jesus from around EVERY country in the world, right up until TODAY.

    BTW, the foregoing is just scratching the surface of the REALITY of the absolute TRUTH, re Almighty God, His Word, the Bible, His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, AND, that what HE* Promised* WE can resolutely, WITHOUT one shadow of any doubt, NONE, say, shout LOUDLY, IS* TRUE!!!!


  34. but me know them hate me in babylon
    but them just can’t stop me jah jah land
    but me know them hate me
    but i have worked and sweat for what I own


  35. Bush Tea | June 20, 2011 at 6:22 AM |
    @ ac
    .are you more than 16 years old?
    ===============================
    Naughty Naughty
    No Bush Pie For You
    One Night Of Sin Is Wrong
    Zoe Will Tell You From Knowledge


  36. Some have been scarred by their experiences in church by the breach of trust that God placed in Priests when they systemically and ritually sexually abused them and Knowledge of these perversions by the perpetrators were also covered up by the Church(es).


  37. @ KIKI

    YOU ARE SO PRECIOUS!!!


  38. Everybody knows that there is a book called “The HOLY Bible. there is no doubt or question about that. However some of what is written in it cannot be proven or agreed upon by the brightest of minds. even theologians would attest to that. The literature is there for all to see . THere is absolutely no denying. but the main ingredient that seals it all together is missing i.e PROOF


  39. @ AC

    Do you have PROOF* of the INVISIBLE* world?

    Do you know where the WIND* come from?

    Has any man seen GOD THE FATHER* and lived?

    Can you fathom how JESUS CHRIST* (The Very Incarnation of God he Creator) could become HUMAN FLESH*?

    Is not the HUMAN BRAIN* still a MYSTERY* to modern quantum science?

    What about DEATH*? How do you explain it that makes some kind of sense to the natural man?

    The list of questions is endless…


  40. Crede, ut intelligas: ‘Believe in order that you may UNDERSTAND.” Augustine’s dictum concerning the relationship of belief and authority, to reason, from his Sermon 43.7 and 9.

    Credo, ut intelligam: “I believe in order that I might UNDERSTAND.” Anselm’s statement of his premise concerning the relationship of faith and reason from “Proslogion, I; a conscious echo of Augustine’s ‘Crede, ut intelligas.

    “Now FAITH IS* the substance of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE* of things not seen.”
    (Heb. 11:1 Emphasis added).

    ‘Faith IS* the title-deed of things hoped for,’ (Moulton and Milligan, Vocabularly, etc). ‘The proving of things not seen’ (pragmaton elegchos ou bleomenon).

    “But without FAITH it is impossible to please God, for He who comes to Him, must BELIEVE* that He IS* and that He IS* a rewarder of those who DILIGENTLY seek HIM.” (Heb. 11: 6 Emphasis added).

    Exegesis: ‘Impossible’ (adunaton ). Strong word as in 6:4, 18. See Rom. 8:8 for the same idea with ‘aresai ( aresk0, Gal. 1:10) .’Must believe’ ( pisteusai dei). Moral necessity to have faith (trust, pisteuo). This is true in business also, (banks, for instance). “That HE* IS* (hoti estin). The very existence of God is a matter of intelligent FAITH (Rom. 1:19ff.) so that men are left without EXCUSE. “He IS* a rewarder’ (misthapodotes ginetai). Rather, ” becomes a rewarder” ( present middle indicative of ‘ginomai’, not of ‘eimi). (Word Pictures, Vol. V, pp. 418, 420, 421 ).


  41. TB but the WIND does present itself in varies ways. and it can also be measured through speed and time. Although it is intangible it demonstrates itself in many ways that people could understand fore.g we can feel it,,also see its awesome power .

    REF. Can you fathom how Jesus Christ {the very incarnated God the creator could be come HUMAN FLESH.Glad you ask because that is the very question which I have been asking in some of my post! be interesting to hear yourtake on it


  42. @ AC

    Somethings MUST* remain in the domain of “MYSTERY”…

    How THE FATHER*** was able to do with MARY* what HE* did is beyond my pay-grade my dear friend…

    Maybe ZOE* can offer some teaching on this as he possess the ability to expound on (ALL) these areas…

    I could conjure a few theories and add a dash of Scripture for good measure to prop up my thesis but it still would not go any distance in adequately answering the question posed – for ONLY* God knows the MIND* of GOD* in this respect…

    As Christians we accept by FAITH* and move on…

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