Why Are We Here? Atheism’s Narrative: Zeitgeist In An Age Of Moral Relativism And Where Deluded Scientists Inspire Men To Believe There Is No God Or No “HEAVEN”

Submitted by Terence Blackett

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In my Father’s House are many mansions and if it were not so I would have told you…John 14:2

 

In 1972, Beatle – John Lennon released the most famous song ever recorded by any human being with words that ominously ask us to -“Imagine there’s no Heaven, it’s easy if you try, no hell below us, above us only sky, imagine all the people, living for today…”

4 decades later, on Monday May 16th 2011, (reported in Reuters) ahead of the Google Zeitgeist meeting in London where speakers included British finance minister George Osborne and Nobel prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz found imminent physicist Stephen Hawking hogging the limelight ahead of an all-important speech. Before the meeting, Hawking was asked to address the question – “Why are we here?”

Hawking argued that “tiny quantum fluctuations in the very early universe sowed the seeds of human life.” He suggested that – “Heaven is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.” He said “I have lived with the prospect of an early death for the last 49 years. I’m not afraid of death, but I’m in no hurry to die. I have so much I want to do first,” he told the Guardian newspaper. “I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.” When asked how we should live he said: “We should seek the greatest value of our action.”

What a thought-provoking statement by Hawking but more so his comment that – “We should seek the greatest value of our action” which presupposes that life is utilitarian in its ethos yet it is somehow peppered with Aristotelian philosophical strands. One wonders at time if Horgan’s words do have a merit of truth where he says that guys like Hawking are a kind of “cosmic comic performance artist who loves goofing on his fellow physicists and the rest of us.” But is he goofing around or is he positing a serious philosophical slant which has its roots in classical literature? Or is Hawking indirectly admitting that there is an epistemological conundrum which for 1000’s of years remains unresolved as to why we are really here on this planet?

Let’s attempt to answer Hawking & Co. by looking at what ancient philosophy has taught us and how has science helped to undermine or bolster those positions?

As early as the 1820’s the Universe was thought to be 6000 years old. It is now thought to be some 14 billions years old with dimensions of some 150 billion trillion miles across at it nearest point and ad infinitum at its farthest. In our own galaxy, if one were to travel across it at the speed of light (186,000 miles per second) it would take over 100,000 years from one end to another. And if according to astrophysicists, in the universe every 88 gallons of space contains one atom and the furthest back into the universe you look – the more the past emerges into the future, is it even possible to explain life at the subatomic level where we enter the nexus of the Divine? These are some of the questions which science is incapable of answering.

So what about the age-old question that has baffled philosophers, scientists and even sceptics since time immemorial? Why are we here? What is the role of man in the grand schema? And how does the pervasive logic of zeitgeist in an age of moral relativism infringe on Biblical truth, where men laud this idea that there is no distinct or Absolute Truth, underpinned by this notion that all roads lead to home and that “truth” is whatever we individually conceive it to be?

Today, most of our philosophical strands of ideas have emerged out of classical, modernists and postmodernist theory. However, these philosophical perspectives on the meaning of life find their ideological basis in terms of ideals or abstractions defined by fallible human beings.

Classical philosophy for example, was shaped by the narrative of the Batman & Robin of their time (Plato & Aristotle) who believed that the meaning of life is in attaining the highest form of knowledge, which is the Idea (Form) of the Good, from which all good and just things derive utility and value (sounding much like Hawking’s position).

Human beings are duty-bound to pursue the good, but no one can succeed in that pursuit without philosophical reasoning, which allows for true knowledge. Aristotle arrived at this philosophical slant called being “virtuous” where – “Every skill and every inquiry, and similarly, every action and choice of action, is thought to have some good as its object. This is why the good has rightly been defined as the object of all endeavours… Everything is done with a goal, and that goal is ‘good'”.

And so classical philosophy took on many myriad forms moving from Aristotelian to the era of the Cynic philosophers to the Socratic school of Cyrenaics, to the Epicureans and to the Stoics who occupied Mars Hills in the days of Paul the Apostle when he confronted them about their statute to the Unknown God (Acts 17:16-34).

With the advent of the Enlightenment Period, science and philosophy entered a new frontier of discovery, with each discipline fighting over inch of pre-modernist terrain. Classical liberalism during these centuries became a harbinger for the clash of civilizations which would continue for another 200 years where the tensions between devotion and subservience to God were largely replaced by notions of empirical science, inalienable natural rights and the potentialities of reason, and universal ideals of love and compassion which gave way to civic notions of freedom, equality, and citizenship.

The Enlightenment ideals were borne out of conflicts between a growing, wealthy, propertied bourgeois class and the established aristocratic and religious orders that dominated Europe and the then known world. Subsequent philosophies of Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau and Adam Smith were to be overshadowed by Kant’s Categorical Imperative and to finally give rise to the 19th century paradigms of the Utilitarianism of Bentham & Stuart-Mills et al.

These classical forms of Zeitgeist hardly lacked spokespersons – merely for the simple fact that there have always been those who do not believe. Science continued to trumpet the fact that the Church has always been on the wrong side of the debate. Case in point, when Galileo began to explore and explain the theories of Copernicus about space and planetary orbits and that the sun was the center of our solar system with the earth travelling around it – the Roman Church was angered. This went against the contraventions of 15th century interpretation of the Bible by the Roman Catholic priesthood. Galileo was harshly treated and placed under house arrest. Galileo died in 1642 and it took [350] years for the Vatican to pardon and expunge his name as a “HERETIC”. Science has never let the church forget the Galileo blunder! So astrophysicists, theoretical scientists and others have concluded that religion is the adversary of reason and have expelled the church from the halls of academic credibility.

During the 18th century, a young French philosopher named Francois-Marie Arouet writings reached the king of France and in his anger had him committed to the Bastille. That 21 year old young man while locked away for no crime other than for the crime of positing another form of philosophical reasoning chose the pen name VOLTAIRE* and as Will Durant in his book – The Story of Philosophy quotes Victor Hugo: “To name Voltaire is to characterize the entire 18th century. Italy had a Renaissance, and Germany had a Reformation, but France had Voltaire; he was for his country both Renaissance and Reformation, and half the Revolution. With Voltaire, France began to think.”

Voltaire eventually escaped the Bastille and amongst his most famous writing was a play called “Candide” based on a fictionally inspired scholar called “Pangloss”* (a professor of Metaphysico-theologico-cosmologico-panology or more simply described as “OPTIMISM”) – a play which caused most of France to start to question their faith.

Voltaire was an admirer of Isaac Newton (a devout Christian) but his dialectic thinking resulted in him questioning miracles, the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection – consequently ruling out these Biblical principles. His denunciation of organized religion and the clergy was to set the stage after his death in 1778 for the mayhem of the French Revolution – [15] years later. The Reign of Terror and the guillotine murdered thousands; Bibles were burned and the ominous words of Voltaire rang out across France that belief in God was useless. Three and a half years of disowning God proved that “ATHEISM” in France was to be the path to ruin and abysmal destruction.

Atheism was further bolstered by Friedrich Nietzsche’s characteristic nihilism – as emptying the world, and especially human existence, of meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, and essential value. This was the century where the final bulwarks were erected against God and the possibilities of any hope of Heaven. Hence German philosopher Freidrich Nietzsche assertion that “God is dead” and the ensuing epoch where human reasoning and philosophy became the pre-eminent “gospel” of truth for men who sought an excuse to debunk God. In his book titled “Antichrist” he write: “I call Christianity the one great curse, the one enormous and innermost perversion, the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are too venomous, too underhand, too underground, and too petty.”

This was the son of Lutheran ministers on both sides of his family. The dark zeitgeist of Satanic infiltration met Nietzsche at his Waterloo. In the crushing crescendo of such “genius” Nietzsche fell off the wagon and spent the last [11] years of his life completely insane where the statement was coined “God is dead” but before the door of his life closed he made one ominous prediction that “the 20th century would be the bloodiest in human history”. Sure enough, historians recount the 180 million souls who perished through war, disease and displacement.

“Nietzsche had a final look at the kingdom erected by his own theories and it frankly terrified him” His disciple Sigmund Freud studied his theories and created vast psychological models based on Nietzsche’s atheism and so did Carl Jung. What’s even more diabolical is the fact that the [3] most tyrannical political leaders of the 20th century (Joseph Stalin, Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler) devoured his writings with rabid fascination and malevolent zeal. And so the fruits of atheism created a pretty sober menu for the inhabitants of Europe during the last apocalyptic century.

“Then as the world took a final destabilizing lurch toward the abyss with the arrival of Charles Darwin”, with his “theories of evolution and survival of the fittest” – we witnessed the frontal assaults on the very existence of God as CREATOR*. Darwin quietly confesses with some anxiety how he slowly shed his belief in the Bible and in God. First to go was miracles because if something could not be verified by science it had to be abandoned. “Disbelief crept over me at a very slow rate, but was at last complete,” he admits. Karl Marx, a disciple of Darwin, found clarity and symmetry in the theories of evolution. Marx saw “religion as the opiate of the masses”. Marx even asked Darwin if he could dedicate his most prolific work “DAS KAPITAL” to the British scientist and so he did.

The 20th century arrived with serious advances in science – a quantum leap into the beyond where in the last [100] years we have gone from sailing galleons to nuclear submarines; from Orville Wright to the possibilities of time-travel; from the alchemy of herbal concotions, shrubs and Hippocratic medicine to nanotechnology and space-age biotech discoveries. Mankind has finally emerged from the shores of early 20th century pragmatism, existentialism, absurdism, secular humanism, logical positivism, postmodernism, naturalistic pantheism and evolutionary psychology to a meaningless world of MORAL RELATIVISM* where there are no absolutes especially when it comes to Divine Truth, a Divine Designer or a primordial world tucked away in the 3rd Heavens where God The Creator exist in a place called Eternity – to many an “imaginary” world brought on by delusionary Christian thinking.

In conclusion, 1950’s Communist atheistic Russia were the 1st in space with their Sputnik rockets. In 1961 cosmonaut Gheman Titov while speaking to reporters, journalists and admirers at the World Fair that year boasted that: “I never saw God up there.” A young comedian in the crowd shouted back: “If you’d just stepped out of your capsule for a closer look, you would have seen Him!”

Then in 1968, the United States Apollo 8 space program mission made the ultimate step for humanity by landing a man on the moon. While the world stayed gripped to their TV screens, in the words of Christian apologist Ravi Zacharias opined: “They saw Earth rise above the horizon of the moon, draped in a beauteous mixture of white and out of, bordered by the glistening light of the sun against the black void of space” – and in the throes of that awe-inspiring moment those astronauts opened the pages of Genesis and read for the world to hear: “IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH…”

Here are the polarized opposites which we face in our world. Here are [2] groups of extremely bright, well-educated, scientifically-minded persons hurtling through the dark matter of space – one group sees nothing but a vacuum; the other sees the CREATIVE HAND of GOD*!

“Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. I call on Heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, that you and your descendents may live.” (Deut.30:19)

Choose LIFE!!!

192 thoughts on “Why Are We Here? Atheism’s Narrative: Zeitgeist In An Age Of Moral Relativism And Where Deluded Scientists Inspire Men To Believe There Is No God Or No “HEAVEN”


  1. Yes, Terence, as the saying goes, you can take a horse to the water, but you can’t make him drink; likewise, you can take a scientist to the EVIDENCE, but you can’t make him think!

    Hawkins, Dawkins and company, who are the ones that are DELUDED* are the most rampant, rabid, rancid, belligerent, arrogant, intellectually FOOLS* there are anywhere!

    The Eternal, Almighty Creator, speak to such voidless, minds, hear HIM!

    “And with ALL unrighteous DECEPTION ( Atheism, Relativism etc) among those who PERISH, because they did NOT* receive the love of the TRUTH* (God’s Word), that they might be saved. And for this REASON* God will send them strong DELUSION ( Atheism, Relativism etc) that they should believe the LIE* that they ALL may be condemned who did NOT believe the TRUTH* but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”( 2 Thess 2: 10-12 Emphasis added).

    “Because, although they knew God, they did NOT glorify Him as God, nor were thankful,
    BUT became FUTILE* in their thoughts, and their FOOLISH* hearts were DARKENED* Professing themselves to be wise they became FOOLS” (Rom. 1: 21-22 Emphasis added)

    FUTILE, is from the Gk word, ‘mataioo’ ‘To make empty, vain, FOOLISH, useless, confused. The word describes the perverted logic and idolatrous presumption of those who do NOT honor God or show Him any gratitude for His blessings on humanity. (Taken from Word Wealth).

    “And withh ALL unrighteous DECEPTION (Atheism, Relativism, etc) amomg those who perish, BECAUSE they DID NOT receive the love of the TRUTH* (God’s Word), that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong DELUSION, that they should believe the LIE ( Atheism, Relativism etc) that they ALL may be condemned who did NOT believe the TRUTH, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” ( 2 Thess. 2: 10-12 Emphasis added).


  2. LOL @ David
    … you can ask that question of TB and get a long dissertation that none of us lesser mortals can follow…..
    OR
    …you can ask BT and get the simple down-to-earth answer that none of us are willing to accept until it hits us in the face….

    Either way – been there – done that!!


  3. @ZOE

    “as the saying goes, you can take a horse to the water, but you can’t make him drink…”

    You’d have to give them some SALT…LOL!!!

    But on a serious note, “If we’re meant to be the “SALT” of the earth – but the “SALT” has lost its savour, then its good for nothing but to be thrown out and trodden under the feet of men”


  4. Why sorry Terence? Your philosophy is always enlightening.
    And your answer is even better than the bushman’s in its simplicity….. so maybe some bush philosophy is appropriate here…. LOL

    @ David

    ‘Goodness’ is not an absolute concept.It depends on the objective in mind. A matter which is ‘good’ for BU may well not be very good for CBC; and what may be ‘good’ for REDJET may not be so good for LIAT etc.

    Goodness therefore must be defined from the perspective of the intended purpose to be fulfilled.

    You are therefore the best person to define what is ‘good’ from BU’s perspective; Lowdown is best suited to lay down the law on what is ‘good’ for his goats – and obviously then, the Creator is the one and only entity entitled to define and specify what is ‘Good’ from the perspective of creation.

    ….which is why it would have been stated in his ‘word’ as quoted by TB.

    As far as humanity is concerned therefore, ‘GOODNESS’ is that characteristic of behavior which has been outlined and specified by our creator. Note that this concept of ‘goodness’ may well NOT be applicable to non-human entities…


    • @BT

      We are back to the old position.

      So we have to guess the path the Creator wants us to follow?

      The assumption here is that the Bible does not reflect the word of the Creator to which you refer as distinct from the God of the Bible?


    • @BT

      The devil is always in the detail.

      While some like yourself have built out a theory which you subscribe to, many others have become blind followers to one religion or the other which makes doing a similar thing most difficulty : -)

      To build a good/righteous world how can we make it so when we have so many religious based conflicts?

      How can we build harmony, love and goodness in such a conflicted environment?

      Are you saying that as an individuals we should live by our own definition of what is good; our personal code and to hell with the neighbour?


  5. ON ANOTHER NOTE…. somebody tell ma, why is it ever year when se queen birthday come ah long, she does find time to honour de big wings in de little barbados , bo but y she can award some of de small fish like fellow like ma friend talk bout from eden lodge that start up de tourism club, in de community . people like david denny, for community work, rev charles layne for religion.trevor marshall for de history. any way i gone for now.i think i goin bimx monday…….


  6. LOL

    Man David you mind ROK with that lotta foolish talk bout the God of the Bible vs the creator and UFOs etc…? I like um bad too, but it is not a serious position….

    Reality is that there exist a set of super beings who can best be described as Big Boss Engineers (based on the design and constructions we can all see around us.). …. but you can call them what you like, (lotta a difference THAT makes LOL)

    These are the beings responsible for conceiving and creating the experience that we call life on earth.

    If when we say ‘God’ this is who we are talking about then there is no conflict… it is one of these BBEs who takes responsibility for inspiring the writing of the bible – including TB’s quote….

    The bible therefore EXACTLY reflects the word of BBE the creators, and God of the bible…

    ….now if you want to claim that the bible is confusing, misleading and misunderstood then the Bushman is with you…. actually the Bible itself also makes that claim….

    It is actually a VERY SIMPLE Gospel…. hard to understand why you of all people do not get it Dav…. LOL


  7. There are many levels of Goodness From which we derive the word “Good” the concept of being good requires spirituality maturity. One “Good” deed does not make a person “Good” it is a spiritual road which one must travel in order to be complete and it is not easy.A road that many have tried and failed miserably.
    For most of us “It is easier to believe in “God” than to do “Good” being “good’ requires consistency and plenty effort and always “Giving” of oneself even when there is nothing left to give. I


  8. Darwin and Mendel’s laws almost made me question the universe(I know what I am saying) and in so doing given the questions which i asked i realised i would eventually go crazy trying to find an answer to creation.The teachings which i got from my mother led me the bible as a source and i got stumped! More questions! So i am now resigned to rely on the inner self for direction. Someone called it the soul and others call it the supreme guide.In this life i have been selfless and loyal but i have also learnt to let go of the things of this world and travel light.This is what it will eventually take for t5he final journey!!!


  9. The thought of a loving, omnipresent , omnipotent, and omniscient god making an animal known as man … his finest creation in his own image to rule over his dominion is absurd and ironic. I came to this conclusion years ago based on my survey of man’s history on this planet and his predisposition to do evil deeds toward his fellow men. My Hobbesian view of mankind is grounded in the fact that man by nature is evil. And there is only a thin line between him and the animal in the wild or for that matter between good and evil.Because beyond all the facade of reasonong, enlightment, civilty and technological advancement ,we as a specie , are still ruled by our primordial instinct.Therefore isues of survivability and bilogical needs trump everthing else.

    The issue of goodess is only a luxurious seondary concept for most of mankind as long as our basic primodial needs are being met. Otherwise we ragaved each other like animals in the wild. Christians do good because they are looking for some reward in the after-life. Well I do my little fair share without looking for some payback or reward from some god. Fact of the matter is I donot want to live forever in no heaven drinking milk and honey and if I had a say wether I wanted to be borned in this mess called the world I would have gladly rejected the option. I am just doing my time in this life for the time being and when my time come to get the F@@#k out of this place.


  10. FAAAM wrote “Christians do good because they are looking for some reward in the after-life.”

    They also do good because it is the right thing to do.

    For some of us belief in God is a matter of faith. We don’t need physical evidence.
    Call us simple minded or whatever you like but it works for some of us.


  11. @Hants

    And how amazing that that non-christians do good without looking for some kind of reward in heaven or having a belief in”GOD” which begs the questions What is the relevancy for the belief in “GOD”


  12. @ ac wrote “What is the relevancy for the belief in “GOD”

    It is relevant to me Hants.

    You are responsible for yourself.


  13. @Hants\
    Ref; Comment”You are responsible for yourself

    Hants you have broken the 2nd and greatest commandment””Love thy neighbour as thyself”
    Now go read the story of the Good Samaritan. That should teach you the relevancy of your belief in “GOD”” how ironic a nonbeliever should point this out to you! BTW the bible also teaches to go and make disciples and that is also a command Jesus told his disciples to do and if you are a christian you have also disobeyed that command with your shortsighted response. I expect better from you one being a Godly person!


  14. @David: “While some like [Bush Tea] have built out a theory which you subscribe to, many others have become blind followers to one religion or the other which makes doing a similar thing most difficulty : -)

    IMHO, following anything or anyone blindly is foolish.

    @David: “To build a good/righteous world how can we make it so when we have so many religious based conflicts? How can we build harmony, love and goodness in such a conflicted environment?

    Perhaps one first step would be by admitting that three of the major religions which are currently fighting (Christian, Islam and Judaism) all started from the same basic idea, beliefs and texts.

    @David: “Are you saying that as an individuals we should live by our own definition of what is good; our personal code and to hell with the neighbour?

    I wouldn’t dare speak for Bush Tea, but my own personal opinion is that at the end of the day we must all, each and everyone, make their own decisions about what they believe based on the empirical evidence available and a *great* deal of thought.

    And then act accordingly; always willing to accept new evidence and that one *might* have come to an incorrect conclusion based on incomplete knowledge.

    BTW, my definition of “Good” is “That which aggregately causes the least harm, and the most benefit, to *all* stakeholders involved.


  15. Fear” and : Reward” are two of the main reasons people believe in God.Religious people would go to extreme length trying to prove to the nonbeliever the very existence of “God”” and with no profound logic or proof..Without proof logic flies out the window. Man has and always will be in search for a divine supreme being. This is nothing new. It was a time when ancient people believe in all and sundry beings as “GODS” . However as man acquired more knowledge the many different “Gods ” were abandoned and what we have now is one Universal God which is more appealing and acceptable to the masses.


  16. After declining to speak for BT, CH goes on to make some good points in response to BUDavid…… will wonders ever cease? LOL

    @ David, the problem with your analysis is that you have based it on some faulty foundations which are tied to accepted (but erroneous) dogma.

    For example,
    You ask “How can we build harmony, love and goodness in such a conflicted environment?”
    There is absolutely NO intent to build harmony, love or goodness in this phase of life on earth. INDEED the OPPOSITE is inevitable…. In fact if you had asked this question of Zoe he would likely have pointed you to Jesus’ answer to a similar question when he said that he came NOT to bring peace, but a SWORD….

    Unless therefore one UNDERSTANDS the intent of the creator, – for this phase of man’s existence, – one is very likely to come to a wrong conclusion or be totally confused about what represents ‘Goodness’ or ‘Truth’

    Understand this mystery PLEASE!! Our world was described by its creator as a PERFECT creation, and this was WITH the good, the bad, the evil and the sorrow that comes with the package.

    Chris’s point about individual attitude, individual research and individual willpower is key to understanding the intent of the creator and the excellent environment that our world represents as a base for this project.

    Your second question was – “Are you saying that as an individuals we should live by our own definition of what is good; our personal code and to hell with the neighbor?”
    Of course not! The bush man (and it appears CH;;; LOL) is (are) saying that we NEED to define our lives for ourselves as individuals (and not follow blindly other idiots who are themselves lost) In doing so we should satisfy OURSELVES about what represents the TRUTH and live accordingly.

    Bush Tea can guarantee that any honest and sincere individual research will be rewarded with proper answers and understanding, because BBE has incorporated that condition into the design of the experience called life on earth phase 1.


  17. The only reason why people subscribe to a god theory and by extension organised religon is because they are afraid of death. The fear of the unkown after death drives mankind to find solace in fabricated feel-good- story -telling which is what the bible is all about. A great work of literaure if you ask me. Take away death from the equation and religion become meaningless.Until most of us get rid of this fear and embraced death as part of the natural order of things, then for most people, religion will be there opium.I do good.. looking for no reward and I don’t care about living forever. Life as it is very overated. Just look around you and see the millions of people living in poverty, hunger and despair. We are not short of food or money, but we prefer to spend money to build weapons of mass destruction to use against our own kind.Go figure! And you want to tell me that we were created by an all loving powerful god and better yet that we are superior to the other animals because we have a higher intelligence and self-consciouness. Ridiculous!


  18. @Terence Blackett…

    You wrote approximately 2300 words of highly complex language to argue a point.

    A point which you failed to make.

    The headline is “Why Are We Here? Atheism’s Narrative: Zeitgeist In An Age Of Moral Relativism And Where Deluded Scientists Inspire Men To Believe There Is No God Or No “HEAVEN”

    Please correct me if I am wrong, but no where in your 2300 words is there any proof that Scientists are Deluded.

    Again, please correct me if I am wrong.

    Might one then reasonably conclude that you have an agenda to try to convince some of what is not true?


  19. @ac,
    What has my belief in God got to do with you ? I believe in God. That is as much as I am prepared to say to you in your role of “agent provocateur.”
    get thee hence!


  20. Breaking news.

    “Police have reported that more than 25 people were inured when a coach overturned this evening at Bath, St John, in rural Barbados.”


  21. Ones believe should be a reflection of there believe so that the believers light should so shine to as to make others want to follow! as the bible so clearly teaches!


  22. @ Forty Acres etc

    If you really believed as you are saying, you would have done both yourself and the rest of us morons a big favour long ago by running across a Skeete Bay bus late at night….
    Yours and ac’s attitudes are common positions taken by those who are totally confused themselves (like most others), but whose response is to dismiss the whole thing as nonsense BECAUSE OF YOUR INABILITY TO MAKE SENSE OF IT.

    A more intelligent response would be to undertake the research needed to clear up any confusion and to prove to yourself what the likely ‘truth’ is. But to draw conclusions based on your observations of the actions of others is ….. well …sad.


  23. I never said “THE WHOLE THING IS NONESENSE” i however says it lacks definitive proof and reasonable logic for the mind to comprhend. Isn’t “PROOF ” the very Foundation of “TRUTH” Again I emphaise that the BIBLE questions our abilty to understand they things we cannot see! How s that. when our minds find it hard to accept the thintgs we see.


  24. @ Bush tea. Guilty as charge. I will be the first to admit that I don’t know squat . Neither do you. I am just a mere nobody who might as well believe in jack and the bean stalk if I am to belive in the bible.


  25. @ ac
    I never said “THE WHOLE THING IS NONESENSE” i however says it lacks definitive proof and reasonable logic for the mind to comprhend.
    ************************************************************************
    ac, you need help!
    What you probably mean is that YOU fail to see the proof and reasonable logic that YOUR mind can comprehend – and not surprisingly so….do not presume that we are all as limited as you are… OR that you need to remain in such a state.

    @ 40 acres +
    Excellent response (with just one major error). The ability to recognize and admit a lack of understanding is probably THE most important step that anyone can take into the light.
    The truth is that VERY FEW people anywhere ‘knows squat’, but like the emperor and his clothes, most pretend that they are fully clothed, and put on a brave face trying to look sincere least they be ostracized by the other naked jokers.

    Having (like the child in the story) the honesty to call everyone’s bluff about the nakedness of the emperor, you are now well placed to hire a real tailor and get yourself a proper suit.

    Your error, by the way, is in your presuming the nakedness of the bushman. LOL, not even CH would accuse Bushie of ‘not knowing squat….’ LOL
    The only blogger brave enough to do so was a micro mock engineer and he seem to have retired from active blogging on this side of eternity…..


  26. Terence, the applicability of ‘salt’ has its righfull season, and so does:

    “I charge you therefore before God and the LORD Jesus Christ, who will JUDGE the living and the dead at HIS appearing and His kingdom.” To do what?

    “Preach the WORD! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, REBUKE, exhort, with all longsuffering and TEACHING. For the time will COME when they will NOT endure sound DOCTRINE, but according to their own desires, BECAUSE they have itching ears, they will heap up to themselves teachers, and they will TURN their EARS away from the TRUTH, and be turned aside to fables.” (2 Tim. 4 1-4 Emphasis added)

    We can only understand human nature properly, only as we grasp the TRUTH of “original sin.’ When Adam sinned, ALL of us not only sinned, BUT inherited a resident SIN nature ( 8:21; Rom. 5:19; 7;18). Only a Savior can DEAL effectively with this inherited natural CORRUPTION!


  27. @ BT, “Understand this mystery PLEASE!! Our world described by its creator as a PERFECT creation , and this was WITH the good, the bad, the evil and the sorrow that comes with the package.”

    BT, this premise of yours is NOT Biblical, where you obviously LINK ‘…a PERFECT creatiion, and this was WITH the good, the bad, the evil…that comes with the package.”

    The Genesis narrative account of Creation, as given in God’s Word, the Bible, Chapter 1, verses 1- 25, “And God saw that it WAS GOOD.” (v.25) Then following, comes the creation of Adam and Eve, with verse 31, stating: “Then God saw EVERYTHING He had MADE, and INDEED it WAS VERY GOOD.”

    The point BT, is, that up until that point, before Adam and Eve SINNED, it WAS a perfect Creation, on earth, it was ONLY afterr SIN entered through Adams’ wilfull act of DISOBEDIENCE, that, as you termed it, “…the bad, the evil, and the sorrow that comes with the package.” THEN entered the scene.

    Therefore, your import, that implies that God created a PERFECT world, , with the good, bad and evil, is NOT what His Word, the Bible states.

    BT, this IS an Oxymoronic concept, and does NOT line up with God’s Word!


  28. @ Zoe
    You done know that BT has nothing but huge respect for your knowledge of the word… but let us look at this situation from a down to earth (bushy) perspective…

    An all-knowing and clearly almighty set of Boss Engineers design and create a system called Earth. They clearly have a plan in mind and a very specific objective….

    These are not fly-by-night NASA types, we are talking about beings that are not subject to the ravages of time or entropy. This means Mr. Zoe, that unlike mortal fools like the Bushman and yourself, they are not ignorant of ‘matters of the future’.

    (yesterday / today /tomorrow – all the same to BBE)

    When ‘the Word’ therefore would have reviewed his creation and declared it to be have been ‘VERY GOOD’ – are you suggesting that he should have more correctly said;

    ‘ This is very good so far, but unfortunately that idiot the Devil (who by the way I also created) is now going to come and mash up my master plan ….. oh well – such is life in heaven.

    Come on Zoe, from your extensive reading of the bible (and of BU.. LOL) surely you would have picked up by now that Engineers (even micro mock ones) plan well into the future….

    If the word said that the design was GOOD – trust Bushie – IT WAS GOOD long term.

    Now if this conflicts with your theology we could talk about that fact – but Bush Tea would be happy to show how it fits PERFECTLY with BBE’s theology…


  29. Is it possible that both heaven and hell are, and are experienced, here on earth? People that commit crimes and generally do bad things do seem to experience hell, in prison and in their state of mind. People that do good things are able to relax and experience heavenly conditions. Life really is only as complicated as you make it. Compare the atmosphere in a home where one partner is having an affair to the atmosphere in a home where there is fidelity.


  30. @Bushie

    “Understand this mystery PLEASE!! Our world was described by its creator as a PERFECT creation, and this was WITH the good, the bad, the evil and the sorrow that comes with the package.”

    Is The Bible the word of the BBE or not, IYHO?


  31. @ CHRIS HALSALL
    ” “You wrote approximately 2300 words of highly complex language to argue a point…Please correct me if I am wrong, but no where in your 2300 words is there any proof that Scientists are Deluded…”

    To be EXACT Chris – 2330 words ( which is really PART 1 of a 2 part article arguing that from medieval times to our pastmodern world (science in its myriad of forms) have sought to run counter to BIBLICAL* epistemology…

    Classical forms of scientific endeavor is where it began with most of the PHILOSOPHERS* already mentioned and more of them insisted on EMPIRICAL* findings (so if it could not be touched, felt or quantitatively explained – it had to be discarded)…

    So Chris, science has already run the full gamut from classical philosophy to modern-day astrophysics, quantum biology and the other esoteric sciences…

    What science forgets is that where they end – GOD THE CREATOR begins!!!


  32. @ DAVID

    (1) “To build a good/righteous world how can we make it so when we have so many religious based conflicts?” (SOMETHING OF A SUPERNATURAL INTERVENTION WOULD HAVE TO BRING THIS ABOUT)…

    (2) “How can we build harmony, love and goodness in such a conflicted environment?” (THIS ??? MAY BE IMPOSSIBLE TO ANSWER HONESTLY)…

    (3) “Are you saying that as an individuals we should live by our own definition of what is good; our personal code and to hell with the neighbor?” (THESE ARE THE “real” QUESTIONS THAT MUST BE ANSWERED)!!!

    But how do we answer them that will bring about the greatest “GOOD” for the greatest number is really the challenge…

    Equally, how can these ??? be balanced in the light of the SCRIPTURES* that will give way to agreement and not displacement and dislocation of the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD & THE FAITH OF JESUS?

    This is the challenge…

    @ BUSHMAN

    I still must admit my beloved brother that GUYS* like you with the CEREBRAL* telemetry you possess must make your imminent mark on the landscape…

    GUYS* like you hold such a breath of knowledge and ability – it amazes myself and others when will you stamp your authority on that 166 sq. mile piece of coral limestone out in the Caribbean Sea – holding the imbeciles we call our current (SO-CALLED) leaders to account…

    As a utilitarian of the best possible kind – you understand what is needed to make things better for those mostly marginalized on the sidelines…

    I may not see “EYE to eye” with you on all possible vectors but in 90+% of the times you make more sense than most FOLKS* I know…

    So, as always, you have my “VOTE” hands down!!!

    @FortyAcres+, AC, Hants, ‘Ole Man River & Raymond

    As I follow your individual lines of argument – I am intrigued and fascinated to find out which of you are adherents to FREEMASONRY…

    I am convinced that some of the most enlightened people and brilliant minds in the world find their roots in Barbados – and BU* provides a “TASTE” of that so clearly…

    A word of “CHALLENGE” as well as “EXHORTATION” – take another sincere look at the SCRIPTURES* and see if there’s the possibility of a cosmic collision course with “THE ONE” who created this “UNIVERSE” folks…

    Peering through the capsule of time you may get a glimpse of HIS ETERNAL* BEAUTY, LOVE, JOY & PEACE!!!

    Try it – what have you got to lose!!!


  33. @ ST
    Is The Bible the word of the BBE or not, IYHO?
    ***************************************************
    The Bushman is not sure what exactly you mean by ‘the word of the BBE’ ST. Oftentimes ‘The Word’ is used to refer to that ‘BBE-personality’ who seems to have been the lead engineer on project Earth. (In the beginning was ‘the word’… etc)

    The bible however represents BBE’s words to mankind…. much like the manual that came with your car. It gives an overview of the features, the background of the manufacturer, the conditions of use, the correct operations guidelines and some basic repair hints.

    Where most of us err is in presuming that the intent of the manufacturer was for us to have a long and happy life here on earth filled with bliss and economic enfranchisement – and we have interpreted such an outcome to be ‘GOOD’

    NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.
    This is why my friend Zoe is so confused by the FACT that the GOD of the bible (BBE) took it upon themselves to actually CREATE the Devil and to build our troublesome world exactly as it is.

    Yes Straight Talk, the bible is a masterpiece inspired by BBE and it spells out in great detail, BBE’s intent and business plan for mankind.


  34. @ Terence
    “….it amazes myself and others when will you stamp your authority on that 166 sq. mile piece of coral limestone out in the Caribbean Sea”
    ******************************
    Don’t flatter Bushie Terence, there is nothing worse that a bushman with a swollen head…. LOL
    BT is a little surprised that you are not seeing the bigger picture beyond current happenings on the 166 square miles.
    No doubt you are aware that even some of Jesus’ disciples were expecting his intervention in the politics of the day to bring his obvious talents to the benefit of the poor, weak and oppressed of the time…. his response – I am about my father’s business…

    If one is able to appreciate the overall INTENT of BBE, then these other issues pale into insignificance…. besides which, the challenge that you have identified (imbecile leaders) is not one against flesh and blood but against principalities and spirits and dark evil forces…

    Finally you should note that when he was similarly invited to take his mission WITHIN the existing system, to make his mark on the world -that Jesus declined the invitation with the words “get thee behind me…..”


  35. @BT who wrote:
    Don’t flatter Bushie Terence, there is nothing worse that a bushman with a swollen head…. LOL
    ====================
    I think that anybody who constantly refers to himself in the third person is already suffering from an over-inflated ego, so go ahead and accept the flattery man… LOL


  36. @ Bush Tea

    Ref; Comment
    Ac you need Help!

    Help for not being a hypocrite in pretending to accept or believe things that cannot be proven. Like I said before even the bible questions the hypocrisy of those who believes in the things they cannot not see. Why don’t you address that issue!. For a person to understand or comprehend anything there must be some kind of proof.whether it is by design or created. No one can say for Absolute TRUTH that any one person be “”GOD ” or whoever they choose to relate to Created the world. Now bring it on I am waiting!


  37. Almighty GOD of Historic Divine Revelation, as emphatically revealed in HIS* WORD* the Bible, IS* God IS* All GOOD!

    For the Christian, the meaning and UNITY of the good* rests completely and absolutely IN* God as revealed by His Word. Declarations that God is GOOD, acts with goodness, and IS* the source of ALL GOOD superabound throughout the Scripture, and are usually tied to human gratitude and praise ( e.g., II Chr. 5:13; 7:3; Psa. 25:8; 100:5; 106: 1; Jer. 33:11; Nah. 1:7; Mark. 10:18). The identity of the good with God IS* profoundly expressed by Amos in his unconventional use of the off-repeated priestly teaching or call to worship. “Seek the LORD and live.” He quotes this phrase three times, but on the third he substitues the word “good” for “the Lord” and admonishes the people to “seek good and not evil that you may live” (Amos 5:4; 6, 14). To seek God is to seek the good!

    God’s ABSOLUTE GOODNESS was no more powerfully affirmed than when Jesus was confronted by the man who flippantly addressed Him as good and assumed He would redefine its meaning. Rather, Jesus insisted that God IS* PERFECT GOODNESS, and that God alone decides and, in fact, has already determined ( in Scripture and IN* Jesus Himself) what is the good ( cf. Mark 10: 17-22; Matt. 19: 16-22). The tragic FALL of the FIRST human pair when the ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil lay precisely in their REBELLIOUS attempt to be above God and assume God’s sole prerogative to determine what is GOOD and what is EVIL ( Gen. 3:4-7)


  38. God’s Good Gifts. The Christian’s unique understanding of the GOOD is shaped by the Bibl’s unparalleled presentations of the TRUINE God who acts by Creating the world and by establishing an everlasting covenant* of fellowship with that world. Already in the opening verses of Genesis the meaning of GOOD ( tob, agathos, kalos) IS* clarified. The phrase “and God saw that it was GOOD ( or pleasing)” IS* a postlude to EACH day’s creative activity ( Gen. 1:4, 10, 12, 21, 25, 31; cf. I Tim 4:4). Each DECLARATION of GOODNESS accents God’s orderly design and fashioning of the Universe, resulting in the interdependence of its structures and in the grouping of ALL life after its KIND. The meaning of the GOOD as the harmonious ordering and agreement among the parts is highlighted in Adam and Eve who, as physical, spiritual, and psychological beings, are created in total accord with their enviornment ( note the linguistic relationship between ‘adam’ and ‘adama’ meaning “earth”). Thus, the natural elements of the earth are “pleasant to the sight and good for food” (gen. 2:9)

    Now, to my friend BT, whose obvious mixing, ad-mixture, of what he chooses* to take from God’s Word, the Bible, and then convolute it with his mystical, esoteric, meanderings, always brings Bush Tea, into a flux of utterly unscriptural conclusions and concepts, such as, that God created the Devil, NONSENSE, which I have already dealt with extensively in the past here on BU, showing from HIS* Word, that God did NOT create Satan, the Devil, but Lucifer, who in his utter rebellion against His Creator, sought to rise UP and exhalt himself ABOVE his creator, the very same LIE he brought to Eve in the Garden, to become like God.

    BT, man you must try and let JESUS extricate you from this ad-mixture you are caught up in, as no LIE is of the TRUTH, and we are WARNED in His Word, NOT to ADD or TAKE AWAY from His Word, the Bible, lest He find you to be a LIAR.!

    What BT, does not understand, and fails to deal with, is Almighty God’s sovereignty in His ABSOLUTE Holiness, Goodness, Righteousness, etc, as seperate and distinct FROM His created creatures, Lucifer, the Angelic hosts, and Adam and Eve, whom He gave FREE WILL to, as HE did not create robots, AND, His Omniscience, all KNOWING, the beginning from the end, does NOT validate this erroneous, false idea that BT hangs on to, that He, therefore created and designed this MESS, good, bad, evil, etc, which IS* diamterically opposed to ALL that He IS*

    As His word declares: “EVERY good gift and every PERFECT gift IS from above and comes down from the FATHER of lights* (not evil!) with whom there IS* NO* kind or shadow of turning.” (James 1: 17 Emphasis added).


  39. Eritrea’s Nabro volcano, which has no historical record of eruption, has erupted after a Mag 5+ quake.

    This now accompanies the Chilean volcano currently erupting. Both are distupting air travel.

    Earth is getting more active for whatever reason, we better be prepared for some serious catastrophes. I mean it.

    And for the ‘hell and brimstone people’, of whom I am not one, y’all are finally getting your day in the ‘Sun’ (pun intended).

    But all it is, is the activities and changes in life, never ending life, of soul and physical, of mankind, all other creatures and lifeforms.

    Remember, life is energy.


  40. LOL @ Zack and his assessment of Bush Tea’s swollen ego…. Unfortunately, there is a very thin line between being egotistical and being confident in knowledge. Apologies if the bushman too often crosses that line LOL

    @ ac
    So can you NOT use some help??! We all need help in one way or another. All the bushman was suggesting to you is that you are unable to speak for anyone but yourself in reference to the apparent confusing theological positions postulated by various persons. How can you know that others are confused? for example, you do not know how the internet works….. but Christopher does!! …LOL

    @ Zoe
    You have the uncanny ability to quote some very relevant scriptures… and to then come to a conclusion that defies what you quoted, but which supports your established religious dogma.
    Like the learned Scribes and Pharisees of Jesus’ time, it is particularly difficult for such persons to open their minds to the truth. (MUCH easier for my friend 40 acres +…)

    How is it possible to quote scriptures like “Each DECLARATION of GOODNESS accents God’s orderly design and fashioning of the Universe, resulting in the interdependence of its structures and in the grouping of ALL life after its KIND”

    ….and then turn around and tell intelligent people that this does not include the ;bad’ things – only the ‘good’ things.
    With respect to the Devil one wonders if you are really serious when you posit that God did not create him but created Lucifer instead….. Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that God did NOT KNOW it would turn out like it did…?

    Think about this for a day or so Mr Zoe before you dig yourself any deeper into the hole that you are making in your theology….

    Trust Bushie…
    God created the WHOLE experience that we call life on earth. This includes the Devil, pain, suffering, illness and death – along with joy, growth, love etc. These are ALL vital aspects of the experience. And hence BBE MADE IT ALL.

    …..ask the bushman WHY nuh…!!!


    • @Bushie

      Trust Bushie…
      God created the WHOLE experience that we call life on earth. This includes the Devil, pain, suffering, illness and death – along with joy, growth, love etc. These are ALL vital aspects of the experience. And hence BBE MADE IT ALL.

      …..ask the bushman WHY nuh…!!!

      In light of Sir Bentwood foreboding observation please go ahead and remind us.


    • @Zoe

      So you are saying that the God of the Bible in all his omniscience created Lucifer but had no idea how he would have” turned out?

      Should we use the word ‘oxymoronic’ to describe such if you agree that this is what happened?


  41. Bush Man, man, you really had too many of these ‘Occultic’ Bush Baths, and God knows what else in your pool of mystical encounters, that has so perverted you reasoning ability, really!

    Did I EVER say that in Almighty God’s Omniscience, He did not know that when He created Lucifer, who was the Light bearer, that in his heart which BECAME filled with Pride, he would then seek to exhalt himself above his Creator; AND would THEN be cast down from Heaven, where he became Satan, the Devil, the personification of ALL EVIL!

    How then, in the name of rational, logical, reasoning, can you, BT, with any modicum of common sense, conclude that Almighty God created the Devil!!??? HE did NOT create the Devil, who IS EVIL, as God cannot even look upon Evil, far less create it!

    This IS precisely WHY, when Jesus, His Son, was bearing ALL of our Punishment, on the Cross, He became our SIN bearer, and His Father, Almighty God, with WHOM in Eternity past He had NEVER ONCE being separated from, momentarily became separated from His Father; hence His Cry, ‘My God, My God, why has thou forsaken Me?|
    For the FIRST time, Jesus the man, in His humanity, experienced separation from His Father, on our behalf, as He sacrifically bore OUR SIN, and its just deserved PUNISHMENT, which IS* eternal separation IN* conscious everlasting misery, NO Soul Sleep either, or annihilation either.

    So, that the Father, who CANNOT look upon iniquity, NOR behold Sin, had to momentraily be separated FROM His Son, because of US.

    And, you Bush Tea, cannot justify from God’s Word, the Bible, in one single verse, where it states that Almighty God created Satan, the Devil, because He DID NOT, what Lucifer BECAME, just like Adam, through willful, volitional CHOICE, disobedience and PRIDE, FELL, yes, God in His Omiscience knew this would happen, BUT, He DID NOT Cresate IT.

    There is a vast difference, logically, in God knowing in advance why He allowed it to happen, as distinct FROM creating it, as you unbiblically suggest.

    You BT, have gone, as you always do, OUTSIDE of His Word, the Bible, in order to justify another of your mystical, probabally Occultic beliefs, can’t work, won’t work!!


  42. @Bush TEA

    Pardon the interruption! But i was speaking solely on behalf of my self. Please don’t confuse the issue. Since you try to come across as all knowing about BBE. Why don’t you explain to the audience your PROOF or the existence of “GOD” BTW You might need some help along the way. Maybe you can try FAITH


  43. LOL @ Zoe

    It has to be REALLY hard on you when you come across these anomalies that challenge your theology….. cuh dear…. Sorry.

    But it JUST DON’T make sense to say God is not responsible for Satan- it was Lucifer he made….. LOL Sounds like those mothers in district E court claiming that the criminals in the dock are not their responsibility – they delivered innocent cute babies….LOL.

    This is not as bad as the bushman’s favorite one though – where Jesus deliberately MISLED the people following him around with parables because he did NOT want them to know the truth or understand what he was saying…. LOL

    If you were a scientist instead of a theologian you would know that such situations indicate that your thesis is likely to be flawed and that you should therefore open a full review of your underlying assumptions…..

    Bushie did…!!


  44. @ Bush Tea.!
    You have a strange way of interpreting the Bible. I have hear seen and read it all but yours take the cake.Do you understand the reason for why Jesus use parables ?and to whom the messages were for?


  45. @ ac
    Woman why you don’t ease up on the bushman doh? you looking for a bush bath or wuh?

    Long ago on BU, Bushie admitted to being one of BBE boys…. um aint no secret,

    Decades ago the bushman looked in the bible and the only thing that made sense was the part that said ‘Ask and it shall be given; Seek and ye shall find; knock and the door shall be opened…..

    The knuckles raw… but um does work…..

    What proof of what existence of God you talking about now? we passed that bout 4 years ago…. even Not Saved seeing the light now…. LOL

    Just look around you….at the class engineering…. who do you think designed and built all that..? architects?!! (that is an engineering joke…) LOL


  46. @ ac
    Do you understand the reason for why Jesus use parables ?and to whom the messages were for?
    **********************************
    NOT BUSHIE Bozie!! you want Zack to put more licks in the bushman?

    But the Disciples did ask him DIRECTLY why he always spoke to the people in parables….. HIS answer was “So that they WILL NOT UNDERSTAND ME. – because it is NOT for them to get it…. but let me explain it to wanna disciples….”


  47. Our Father, which art in heaven,
    hallowed be thy name;
    thy kingdom come;
    thy will be done,
    on earth as it is in heaven.
    Give us this day our daily bread.
    And forgive us our trespasses,
    as we forgive them that trespass against us.
    And lead us not into temptation;
    but deliver us from evil.
    For thine is the kingdom,
    the power, and the glory,
    for ever and ever.
    Amen.


  48. Some things are easy to understand. Some are not.

    There are millions of Christians who can barely read our write so they rely on their faith in the simplistic understanding that there is a God and the basic teachings from the Bible is enough support their belief.

    Brainiacs like TMB, Zoe and Bush Tea can have their upper level discombobulated theories some of which could have value if only us lesser mortals were educated enough to understand.


  49. @ Hants
    What is your point?
    Billions of ordinary people use the internet hourly too – and they do not know squat about how it works, where the information goes; or what a protocol is….. but it is all only possible because REAL ‘brainiacs’ like CH and other techno freaks discombobulate upper level theories….

    If you want a piece of the the action – Man say so….

    By the way, let us look at the piece you posted above when Jesus was teaching his disciples how to pray…..

    Our father (the one in heaven)
    – note that he identifies them as CHILDREN of BBE

    Thy kingdom come
    – Is he teaching them to pray for the time of granny Earth’s demise? LOL

    …and for the situation on earth to be as is the case in Heaven where righteous character prevails and everyone is of one righteous mind

    Do not worry too much about accumulating ‘long term’ assets here on earth – just the essentials…
    Help us to do unto others as we expect to be done unto – and build character to accumulate out assets where it REALLY counts…

    And deliver us from evil etc

    Really a BOSS prayer….


  50. Bush Tea wrote, “If you want a piece of the the action – Man say so….”

    No thank you.

    I going and read the Advocate.


  51. David, What kind of a question is that man? Did you actually read what I said?

    Do you understand what Omniscience IS?

    @BT, Think man, think! Having created Lucifer and the Angelic Host with obvious FREE will, just like He created Adam and Eve, where THEY were given the power of CHOICE, to either Love, obey, and honour HIM, and, if they CHOOSE to do just that, THEN, there would be no disharmony, or chaos. BUT, the converse, if they CHOOSE to disobey, dishonour, and seek to be their OWN god, as Lucifer did, and likewise Adam followed, then, this up-start rebellion caused His Righteous Sovereignty to EXPELL Lucifer from Heaven, hence, he became Satan, EVIL.

    Adam, also was dispelled from the Garden, and SIN, entered the human race.

    Now, having created Lucifer with the power of CHOICE, is God, his creator responsible for the CHOICE Lucifer and Adam made, in volitionally CHOOSING to go the way and path of REBELLION?

    Choose this day, either LIFE or DEATH, Heaven or Hell as your Eternal state. Is God responsible for the CHOICES we make.

    Answer: Absolutely NOT!


  52. @Zoe

    In the context of its use the word it should be omnipotence and you know it. Maybe BT is right after all. An all encompassing being and you are saying God has no control of the space or entities create?


  53. @ Hants
    No thank you.
    I going and read the Advocate.
    **********************************
    No prob. Are you not letting down the Crumpton Street side….? LOL

    @ David
    See if you can talk some sense into Zoe on this particular matter…. Explain again for him the meaning of omnipotence….. but even without going so far -you can explain that boss engineering is about managing long term results….. he think that BBE is 3S or wuh? LOLOLOL


    • @BT

      As you know we have discussed the purpose of our existence at length in here.

      The dogma will always clash with the practicality and the time relevance of what is written in the various religious books.

      It is the only way one can explain the significant movement of people from the biblical doctrines.

      Proponents like Zoe always seem to miss the point that to win hearts and minds the people must buy into the end result.


  54. David, You obviously do not understand the difference between God’s Omnipotence, and His Omniscience, AND particularily in the context of the discussion at hand, which IS* the FREEDOM of WILL, He created Lucifer and Adam with.

    His Omnipotence, being ALL POWERFUL, created them with the power of CHOICE. Having giving them, volitional FREE WILL, to choose, either obey or disobey, right or wrong, it was and still IS* either/or, NOT both/and!

    Now, His Omniscience, ALL KNOWING everything, clearly knew what choices they would make, and FREE WILL, would not be freedom to CHOOSE, if, God then in His Omnipotence, STOPPED them in choosing to rebell against His Holy Righteous standards, as He had sovereignly given them free will.

    In His Omnipotence He created them as free will moral agents, NOT robots. In His Omniscience, He foreknew that they would choose to rebel, which choice bearing responsibility He gave them.

    David, even in your spiritually unregenerate state, and by unregenerate I mean NOT Saved, Justified, Born Again, can’t you intellectually understand this?


  55. @Zoe

    So you are saying God, his OMNI-state not withstanding, has/had no clue how these humans would end up? Is that it? Have we interpreted your last comment correctly? Trying to keep the message simple.


  56. Did Almighty God create Muderers, Atheist, Agnostics, Rapists, child molesters, tyrannical, dictatorial leaders, and the list goes on and on? Absolutely NOT!

    Or, as Divinely recorded in His Word, ALL things that He created were GOOD, very GOOD; advantageous, beneficial, propitious, desirable, suitable, appropriate, RIGHT, WHOLESOME, flawless, PERFECT, sound, unblemished, unimpaired, PLEASENT, congenial, gratifying, profitable, HEALTHFUL, WELL-FOUNDED,

    And, as a Loving, Father, He gave Adam FREE WILL, and said to him:

    “And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, ‘Of every tree of the garden you may FREELY eat. BUT, of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall NOT eat, for in the day (that you CHOOSE) you eat of it you shall surely DIE.” (Gen. 2: 16- 17 Emphasis added).

    Essentially, God created ALL things GOOD, for Adam, he was made PERFECT, but, with the power, to make a CHOICE, and he was forewarned by God, what would be the consequences IF* he choose to disobey.

    Now, what IS* the antithesis, the antonym, the literal OPPOSITE of ALL the GOOD, that God created for Adam to LIVE and NEVER die, if he had CHOOSEN to obey his Creator?

    EVIL, BAD, wickedness, wrong, whatever is morally unacceptable, a particular thing (as an act) this is evil, crime, iniquity, maleficence, vice, baneful, offensive, foul, hidous,

    obscene, vile, SIN, to be SINFUL, the consequence of CHOOSING to REJECT ALL of the absolute GOODNESS, that Almighty God had blessed him with.

    And Bush Tea, has the gall, the audacious temerity, the brazen impudence, to believe, with utter centempt, contray to Scripture, God’s Word, the Bible, that God created it this way, which IS tantamount to saying that God LIED, that His GOODNESS, Holiness, absolute Righteousness and Justice, are all part of this EVIL, BADNESS, and debased corruption, no wonder you are a BUSH TEA MAN, up to you ears in mystical, occultic, deception, deceitfully mixing in God’s Word, with your BBE nonsense, another deluded fool!


  57. @ BUSHMAN
    “No doubt you are aware that even some of Jesus’ disciples were expecting his intervention in the politics of the day to bring his obvious talents to the benefit of the poor, weak and oppressed of the time…. his response – I am about my father’s business…”

    I am happy that you juxtapose your response with Biblical alliteration and that somehow we can presuppose that your “CALL” or “MISSION” does bear the “DIVINE” marks of HEAVEN*…

    Not many men are that “CONFIDENT” in making such a call!!!

    Wherever the heaven-sent business takes you in your messianic ZEAL* – let that journey be one that brings light and truth to those languishing in the dark – and be also there to remind you to whom you really belong!!!

    Like JESUS* – remember the BIBLE* says that – “HE WENT ABOUT DOING GOOD!!!”

    This IMPOSSIBLE* word -“GOOD” (because ONLY* god is GOOD*) is not really a noun or an adjective but it is a “VERB” with the connotations that it is an ACTION* word which implies having to “DO” something!!!

    Bushie, the sad irony is that most of us have seen “GOODNESS” as a moral/ethical, if not mental state of being when in fact – it is what we do towards others and what our lives says about us…

    Better a sermon lived than one preached!!!


  58. It seems people have problems understanding their own faith let alone others, maybe mass praying is the way to go, or strict diet and circumcisions , or observing traditions, or believing JC was the son of man, or meditating etc. Each to his(/her) own


  59. David! David! David! Are you in your right mind, what is wrong with you David?

    I clearly, specifically, said:

    “Now, His Omniscience, ALL KNOWING everything, clearly KNEW what choices (humans) would make….In His Omnipotence He created them as free will moral agents, NOT robots. In His OMNISCIENCE (All knowing David!) He FOREKNEW that they would CHOOSE to rebel, which choice bearing responsibility he gave them.”

    Against that MOST explicit, self-explanatory statement above, you, David, still come and ask me:

    “So you are saying God, his OMNI-state notwithstanding, has/had NO CLUE how these humans would end up? Is that it? Have we interpreted your last comment correctly? Trying to keep the message simple.”

    David, I really don’t know what else to say to you, how much CLEARER do you want it said, explained, articulated? Something is terribly wrong here!


  60. @ BUSHMAN (FINAL THOUGHT)

    “This is why my friend Zoe is so confused by the FACT that the GOD of the bible (BBE) took it upon themselves to actually CREATE the Devil and to build our troublesome world exactly as it is…”

    This particular thought raises eyebrows…

    Let us be cautious as to how we use terminology…

    If we accept the CREATION STORY* as a starting point in our Biblical exegesis – we must know that in the SUBLIME, OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT, OMNIPRESENCE of a DREADFUL* SOVEREIGN GOD – that HE* alone knows all things… And all that HE* created was GOOD***

    If one wants to argue more LOGICALLY* that THE CREATOR GOD knew based on FOREKNOWLEDGE* that one day in ETERNITY* that there would be a MUTINY* in the PARADISE* COURTS of Heaven – the answer would be an unequivocal “YES”…

    Did HE* create SATAN, THE DEVIL* – The PERSONIFICATION* of the “EVIL” we see representative on this planet – the answer is an unequivocal “NO”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The silk thread EXEGETICAL* argument is so DIVINELY* structured that as the BIBLE rightly says – “SPIRITUAL THINGS ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED”… As human beings with a MODICUM* of FAITH*, we accept that “ALL” that God created was “GOOD”…. What was built into that GOODNESS* was FREE, MORAL AGENCY (CHOICE)!!!

    Even Lucifer* had that CHOICE – and GOD* being GOD* was willing to expose HIS THRONE* to the ultimate possibility of mutiny based on free choice because in the GRAND DIVINE SCHEME* – just as HE* could bring something out of nothing – HE* could make “ALL THINGS (the good, bad & ugly) work together for the GOOD* to them that LOVE* HIM and are called according to HIS* purpose…

    So for 6000 years SIN*, MAYHEM, EVIL and all it attendant machinations has been felt, seen and experienced by all the inhabitants on planet earth as well as those in the other UNFALLEN* worlds (the other sons* of God) for them to see the end-results of EVIL* and the PRICE* it took to pay off the DIVINE DEBT* – the DEATH* of Jesus Christ!!!

    Most are still trying to figure how GOD* could become a MAN* and die to pay a price that no one else could pay…. it is a MYSTERY* that we will spend ETERNITY* trying to fathom… What we accept by FAITH* is that the PLAN* to redeem humanity was not a reaction to man’s FALL* but was a BLUEPRINT* made even before the foundations of the world was laid!!!

    From that vantage point, we can all surmise a ton of questions – all of them starting with (WHY?)…

    Needless to say, God promised us that one day, HE* will answer all our questions… Meantime, we have all the time to banter, speculate, interpret, philosophize, conjecture and debate until the final sun goes down – the ULTIMATE TRUTH* will be unraveled if we trust that GOD* has a great plan for all of us if we are willing to accept the FREE* gift of salvation!!!

    Trust me, I have my own questions!!!


  61. @ HANTS
    “Brainiacs like TMB, Zoe and Bush Tea can have their upper level discombobulated theories some of which could have value if only us lesser mortals were educated enough to understand…”

    LMBO….

    Hants you love to stir the pot!!!

    My question to you is this – “WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE?”

    None of us (at least not your humble servant) has a PATENT* on the TRUTH*, the whole TRUTH* and nothing but the TRUTH*, so help me GOD!!!

    The inspired Scriptures was given to us (just like a text book at school) – well maybe a bad analogy but for the sake of argument let’s go with the strand of thought and somehow we had to employ all of the “TAUGHT” literary techniques to unpack, unravel & decipher what was being said or being alluded to in the TEXT***

    DOES NOT THE SAME THING APPLY IN THESE DISCOURSES?

    Yes, you may be right to say that there are some (as you remarked) -DISCOMBOBULATED* theories here and there but is that not the nature of the exercise? If we all came to the TABLE* with an open-mind to discuss (better word – REASON*) together – could it be possible that we would discover a deeper level of TRUTH* than when we first began?


  62. Let it be known, that the Almighty God, Creator of Heaven and Earth, HAS revealed HIMSELF, in HIS* VERY NAME(s), which specifically convey His very Nature and Being and Characteristics , by His many and various Names, and, especially in THE NAME which IS* above “every Name that is Named, not only in this world, but also in that world which is to come.” (The LORD JESUS CHRIST) (Eph. 1:21)

    THE NAMES OF GOD.

    One of the riches fields of revelation which God has given concerning His own being IS* that which pertains to the names of God. A name in Scripture is often significant of the nature of a person, whether the name be of angels, men or God. The Hebrews say of God and His name, “Himself is His Name, and His Name is Himself.”

    The names of God are basically divided into two groups; Creatorship (or Elohistic), and Redemptive (or Jehovahistic) names, found throughout His Word, the Bible.

    His names, and the NAME of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, have and carry deep and profound significance of meaning, that’s why Elohim- Plurality of divine Persons, is USED* about 2,500 times in the Old Testament (Genesis 1:1) Used of the truine God [Exodus 3″1-6, 15) Used also of the FULNESS* of the Godhead in the Son (Psalm 45:2,6).

    JEHOVAH-JEHOSHUA-CHRISTOS – The LORD JESUS CHRIST, or Jehovah’s Savior Anointed. ( Matthew 1:21; Acts 2:34-36; Eph. 1:20-21; Luke 2:11, 26,27).

    The NAME* of the LORD JESUS CHRIST IS* the greatest Redemptive NAME* ever to be revealed, because IT* comprehends in a Truine Name* ALL the compound Names of Jehovah. It IS* in the Name and Person of the LORD JESUS CHRIST, that God meets every need of man IN* redemptive POWER*. The LORD JESUS CHRIST IS* God’s ordained Redeemer and ALL* Old Testaments Names point to and find their ultimate consummation in HIS* Redemptive Name. It IS* the Name of the Godhead bodily. It IS* a Truine Name for the Truine GOD. (Col. 1:19; 2:9; Matt. 28: 10-20).

    As in the plan of Redemption, it has pleased the Father that ALL* the FULNESS* dwell in the Son, so it also has pleased the Father that the FULNESS* of the Divine Godhead Name, dwell in the Son. All Redemptive Names, are thus comprehended IN* this Triune Redemptive Name, THE LORD JESUS CHRIST! (The Foundations of Christian Doctrine, pp. 68, 70).

    Nowhere in His Word, the Bible do ever find any such abstract term, like ‘Big Boss Engineer’ or any other such like humanistic foolishness, If anyone who claims to KNOW HIM, Jehovah (Yahweh, or Lord) -” I AM THAT I AM “(Exod. 3:14-15) “I
    WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE” The Self-Existent One, who has revealed Himself, IN* The Lord Jesus Christ, the Living, Resurrected, Ascended, Savior, LORD OF LORDS, and KING OF KINGS, God of very God, and fails to IDENTIFY HIM* by His Revealed NAME,
    that person(s) needs to be Saved, Justified, Born Again!


  63. @Zoe in ref. to the name of God or anyone else
    In Matthew 28:19, Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” Yet, when I read the book of acts, the disciples baptized people every time saying: in Jesus name!
    What is the name of God?


  64. @Zoe ‘“Now, His Omniscience, ALL KNOWING everything, clearly KNEW what choices (humans) would make….In His Omnipotence He created them as free will moral agents, NOT robots. In His OMNISCIENCE (All knowing David!) He FOREKNEW that they would CHOOSE to rebel, which choice bearing responsibility he gave them.”

    So, if we take this statement as is, then God knew that humans would ‘sin’ (if we call their actions that and not part of ‘life’), as he already knew what their choice would be, therefore he accepted that sin would be part of his creation and intended it so, if not he would not have continued….

    N’est pas?

    I am just playing ‘Devil’s Advocate’ here (pun possibly intended).


  65. Sin ‘1. A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate.
    2. Theology
    a. Deliberate disobedience to the known will of God.
    b. A condition of estrangement from God resulting from such disobedience.
    3. Something regarded as being shameful, deplorable, or utterly wrong.
    ——-

    If we take the first definition, sin is purely a ‘listed’ transgression, thus in reality a judgement, subjective.

    If we take the second, how can one be disobedient, if God is omniscient, knowing that one would sin? Therefore in the creation he accepted thus?

    If we take the third, again this is subjective, dependent on social mores, accepted behaviours of society.


  66. Everything we do starts with a thought that is derived from a consciousness that we hold at that moment. Our consciousness is a vessel that attracts the thoughts. From the highest level through a process, the light goes all the way down. This is where the potential light awaits action to be released and manifested.

    We may have negative thoughts and wish to pursue them. The light fills the channel.If we bring the negative thoughts into actions, the light is released from the channel to the vessel but no continuation from the upper light. The channel is drained and it feels void and emptiness.

    The presence of the negative side in every thought and action is a must have for our process and the free choice. When we lose to the negative side, we feel drained and empty. The Spiritual laws are to keep us in balance and connect us to the flow of light. We have the laws of “Do”s to increase the ability to receive light and the “Don’t”s to avoid losing it. The foundation is “10 commandments” that expand to DOs and Don’ts.

    The highest level of restriction is at the thought level. If a negative thought ‘pops’ into your mind, stop it right there before it develops and turns into action. You may get the energy to act upon it but the final result is always the same. Down and empty.


  67. A bit more re THE NAMES OF GOD, as given in His Word, the Bible.

    A. Creatorship or Elohistic Names of God.

    The Elohistic names of God are those names which have to do with the relationship of God with His creation or creatures. The name “El” signifies “to be strong, powerful or mighty.” “Elohim” is the plural of “El” and speaks of plurality of divine Persons in the Godhead. El signifies the object of worshio, rather than a divine name.

    When the name :El” is used as a compound name, it is generally associated or used to show some power or attribute of God in relation to His creation or creatures.

    Following is the general list of Elohistic Names.

    1. El – “to be strong, powerful, mighty.” It is in the singular. It is used of Father, Son and
    Holy Spirit.

    The Father is El. (Genesis 14: 18-22)
    The Son is El. (Isaiah 7:14) Immanu-El (Isa. 9:6-9)
    The Holy Spirit is El. (Job 33:4; 37:10).

    2. Elohim -Plurality of divine Persons. Used about 2,500 times in the Old Testament.
    (Genesis 1:1) Used of the Truine God. (Exo. 3:1-6; 15). Used also of the Fulness of
    the Godhead in the Son. (Psa. 45: 2,6).

    3. El-Elyon – The Most High God (Gen. 14:6)
    4. El-Roi – The God that sees. (Gen 16: 13-14) Omniscience.
    5. El-Shaddai- God Almighty, God All-Sufficient. (Gen. 17:1).
    6. El-Olam – God, the Everlasting. (Gen. 21:33) Eternity of Being.
    7. El-Beth-El – God of the house of God. (Gen. 31: 13; 35:7).
    8. El-Elohe-Israel – God, the God of the Prince of God. (Gen. 33:20).
    9. Eloah – the One God. (Deut. 32:15; Dan. 2:11)
    10. El-Gibbor- The mighty or great God. (Isa. 9:6; Jer. 32:18-19).
    11. Elohim-Saboath – God of Hosts. (Psa. 91:1-2, 78:56).
    12. Elohim-Elyon – God, the Most High. (Psa. 91:2; 78:56).
    13. Adon or Adonai – Master, Owner or Masters, Owners, Ruler of all. (Psa. 147: 5; 86:
    12).
    14. Immanu-El – God with us. (Isa. 7:14; Matt. 1:21-23;). God made flesh. the Incarnate
    Logos. ( John 1: 1-3; 14-18).

    A bit later, I’ll give the Redemptive or Jehovahistic Names of God.


  68. And God said everything is Good! Howeverthis same God has found it necessary to grow two trees in the Garden 1 of Good and one of EVIL. Is n’t this the same God who says everthing was “GOOD” so then why spoil the GOOD with growing a Tree of EVil.What was he thinking Zoe or TB


  69. Then again an “”ALL KNOWING GOD”” would have known the Adam and Eve would have been disobedient. So where is the free will. After all the first temptation was in telling them not to eat the fruit.


  70. “Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites ….. Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!”
    *********************************************

    @ Zoe
    …do you even have the ability (not to mention the humility and grace) to enter any kind of discussion without seeming to have to resort to insults and invective..?

    Have you ever had a good look at the manner in which Jesus dealt with those who questioned his theology? …. no wonder you are so supportive of the Israeli approach to showing love to their Palestinian neighbors.

    Now you are asked a simple, clear question about the creation of the Devil and the Bushman’s position is genuinely presented – i.e. that since the CREATOR of EVERYTHING that exists also happens to be able to see well beyond our limited field of vision – and would have OBVIOUSLY KNOWN from the outset that the Devil, and evil, and pain and dishonesty etc would have become a part of that creation, it means that:

    1 – This was the original intent and would have been classified as ‘GOOD’ by that very creator
    or
    2 – The creator is not in full control of the creation and matters have now moved beyond his intended scope
    or
    3 – The bible misrepresented the creator’s assessment that all was ‘GOOD’

    Your argument that God created all the things that you consider ‘good’, but have no responsibility for those things you consider ‘bad’, is both illogical and juvenile…. and your ATTITUDE in arguing that position is unbecoming of an educated person.

    Unlike BUDAVID, the Bushman will not ‘thank you for your patience’ but will rather recommend that you reflect on the need for such arrogance in defending the truth of the omnipotent Creator – Believe me, that truth can stand on its own.


  71. @ Crusoe

    Very sound and logical analysis in the bushman’s humble opinion. We can learn quite a bit from this apparent dilemma:

    First let us look at the definition of ‘GOOD’
    Just like you demonstrated for the word ‘sin’, the concept of ‘good’ is a relative one. GOOD does NOT mean ‘nice’ as Zoe seem to think.
    GOOD is that which supports the achievement of the intended results.
    A particular action can therefore be ‘good’ in one circumstance and THAT SAME action can be bad (or sin) in a different situation.

    When BBE conceptualized their plans and set out their objectives, THEY would have prescribed the kinds of actions, behaviors and procedures that would have supported THEIR INTENTIONS. Such actions, behaviors etc would by default become GOOD.
    On the other hand, actions, behaviors etc which produced CONTRARY results to those intended would be BAD (or sinful) by definition….(even if they are nice nice LOL)

    Simple so far one would think….

    Now who is to say that evil and pain and stress etc are not critical tools in achieving BBE’s intended objectives? Can diamonds be made without heat and stress and pressure?

    THEREFORE, the WHOLE of life’s experiences( including Satan) may well be GOOD for the achievement of the Creator’s objective – and hence, on assessing his creation, someone who UNDERSTANDS the above WOULD comment that the creation is indeed VERY GOOD and exactly suitable for its intended purpose.

    …..this is not even one of the more complex aspects of BBE’s design….. LOL


  72. of interest..
    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.”

    Explained: From the very start of the project ‘Life on Earth’ that particular BBE who led in the creation of our world was a full part of the BBE family.

    “All things were made through him, and without him, nothing was made, that was made.”

    Explained: EVERYTHING in existence was made through ‘The Word’ …..

    “In him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.”

    Explained: HE is the source of all life, and he, by his sacrifice, have provided the light which could lead mankind to the TRUE life (over and above the temporary mortal existence on Earth)

    ….but despite that light being fully turned on in the darkness of man’s ignorance, we are UNABLE to comprehend the gospel of light of of life…..
    *********************************************
    BTW…
    If Zoe was correct, this should now be amended to read:
    All GOOD things were made through him, and without him the BAD THINGS LATER CAME INTO EXISTENCE, but nothing BAD that exists was made through him.
    LOL


  73. @ Bush Tea, “Woe to those who call EVIL* GOOD, and GOOD* EVIL, Who put DARKNESS for LIGHT, and LIGHT for DARKNESS, Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter.” ( Isa. 5:20 Emphasis added).

    “Your argument that God created all things that YOU CONSIDER GOOD,,,” Emphasis added.

    Listen Bush Man, STOP twisting and perverting what I never said, and further, STOP being so contemptuous towards God’s Word!

    I NEVER made any statements re what I CONSIDER GOOD, NO! NO! I simply quoted HIS* Word, what HE said in His in Word. “And God saw that it WAS GOOD.” (Gen. 1:25) and in other veres in Genesis regarding His creation.

    “…but have no responsibility for those things you consider “bad” is both illogical and juvenile.”

    Again, it IS not what I consider bad, it is what He deems to be bad, evil, and those, Satan
    the False Prophet, the Beast, and ALL those human being who have REJECTED God’s universal offer of forgiveness of their SINS, through the Lord Jesus Christ, will BE put in the Lake of Fire, for ever and ever, BECAUSE they CHOOSE, by Free Will, NOT God’s design and purpose, to rebel against Him, therefore HE has taken full responsibility in His Sovereign Righteousness, Holiness, and Justice, to condemn ALL who have choosen NOT to want His Peace, Joy, and Gift of Eternal Life in Christ Jesus.

    Did God create it to be this way, NO, He did not, what is not been taken into account, is His Sovereignty, AND, Human responsibility, which involes FREE WILL moral agents!.


  74. “All things were made through him, and without him, nothing was made, that was made.”
    ***************************************
    Are you saying that this is wrong Mr Zoe?


  75. All things in the universe are in a constant state of agitation; that is they are vibrating at various frequencies. Some of these frequencies are slow and therefore form a dense, visible object, others vibrate at incredible speeds that we cannot see or touch. Think of the invisible radio frequencies that permeate solid objects and that we can unscramble to understand a radio message.
    Perhaps what we call God is the universal frequency from which all other frequencies are derived and gain their form or lack thereof. The point is, does this scientifically provable theory have a tangible purpose or is it just a random event to which we have given a name and built religions around?

    This is where I think humans come in. We are, as far as can be ascertained the only beings that can alter our frequencies to some lesser or greater degree. Some do it by meditation, others by prayer, respiration and many other means.

    All the frequencies interact at some level,; we are like transmitters and receivers and most of us appreciate the influence our vibes can have on others and ourselves (including our physical health and mental well being). What many have not begun to understand is how our concentrated, united thoughts and frequencies can affect everything else around us in a positive, i.e good way, or negatively.

    Good is simply that which leads to the harmonious interaction with the various frequencies around us and within us all. Love is a key to this harmony, recognising the similarity of the frequency of every human, is the key to love, Realising that our will or thoughts is the lock which the key fits and that each time we utilise our thoughts and will to unlock a door within our awareness of our joint frequency (do good) we get closer to the goal.

    When we have achieved that level of harmonious vibration we will be one with all creation.

    Bit of a long post.

    There is much more to the theory if any of it makes sense holla back.

    Peace


  76. Bush Tea are you saying is God communicates through musical vibrations? are some musicians Gods prophets ?

    Zoe can you part the red sea ? do you know all 72 names of god ?


  77. 72 names of God???
    Jesus said to baptize ” in the NAME of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” not in the names…what is THAT name?


  78. To agree with Maat;

    Until we realise that each perception of reality is as much a definition of the individual as of his observation, we will be mired in these circular arguments about what is truth.

    To believe what we see is a naive reality, as each person has his own peculiar vantage point from which he personally constructs his whole universe, and so it follows everyone is speaking the truth – albeit as they interpret it through their own senses (“vibrations”).

    The ignorance, bigotry and superstition apparent in this blog is a demonstration of how this naive reality is destructive, causing racism, religious and political infighting, and ultimately war.

    Acceptance of other perceptions without rancour is the path to harmony …and

    Peace


  79. God sees that everything is GOOD but yet sets out to test Adam and Eve with an Evil Tree. Where is the logic in that.If everything is GOOD why not let it remain. The revelation is man have stamped their footprint on GOD and itis NOT GOOD


  80. @ Bush Tea, Come now man, let’s reason, rationally, logically.

    Yes, “All things were made through HIM ( the Logos, Jesus), and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (John 1:3, cf. Col. 1:16-18).

    The salient, entirely Biblically revealed point, FACT, IS* that these “ALL things” that were created through Him, were GOOD, every last ONE of them, including Lucifer, the Angelic Hosts, and His prize creation of all, Adam, for He DID NOT EVER Create anything BAD, or EVIL. The entire spectrum of ALL created things were GOOD.

    BT, what you stubbornly refuse to deal with, is what happened AFTER the FACT, of ALL things were created GOOD; without a stain of BAD or EVIL in any of them, but, that HE created them with FREE WILL, which He did not have to do, He could have created ROBOTS, forced to love and obey Him, that, however, would not have being a Loving God, but a tyrrant, He therefore gave them ALL a choice to make, the consequences of which, either way, would have eternal ramifications, either, JOY, PEACE, NO PAIN, NO SUFFERING, NO DEATH, and eternal fellowship with Him, beyond anything our finite minds can comprehend. OR, PAIN, SUFFERING, HEART ACHE, WARS, etc, etc, DEATH, both physically and spiritually, in Everlasting misery and torment.

    The absence of God’s LOVE, is HATE, the absence of God’s LIGHT, is DARKNESS, the absence of God’s PEACE, is TERROR, and so on, Hell IS* the literal absence of ALL that Almighty God IS* that’s why it is HELL.

    BT, you continue to obstinately deny the fact, that God did NOT Create anything BAD, or Evil, which IS* inherently, contray to His revealed attributes, Holiness, Righteousness, Justice, etc, etc, for IN* Him, “…there is NO variation or shadow of turning…” (James 1:17b) from His absolutes, which ARE* eternally consistent with His Nature and Characteristics,

    Now, He says, For My thoughts are NOT your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways., And My thoughts than your thoughts.” (Isa. 55: 8,9).

    Again we read of HIM: “Ascribe greatness to our God. He is the Rock, His WORK IS* PERFECT* For ALL His ways are justice. A God of TRUTH* and without injustice; Righteous and UPRIGHT IS* He.” (Deut. 32: 4).

    “The LORD IS* righteous in ALL* His ways, Gracious in ALL His works.” (Psa. 145: 17)

    You cannot ascribe anything Bad or Evil to Him, as He NEVER created any such thing.
    The consequences of engaging their FREE WILL that He created them with, to choose to DO BAD and EVIL, is NOT His doing at ALL.

    Now, because He is Almighty God, He can then use any perversion of His Holy, Righteous ways, and bring about GOOD (again!) to and for His eternal purposes, which He has obviously done, since Lucifer, Adam and us ALL have SINNED against Him.


  81. @Geraldine, Yes, the baptismal command given by Jesus in Matt. 28: 19, “ALL authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of ALL the nations, baptizing them in the NAME (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe ALL things I have commanded you, and lo, I AM with you ALWAYS, even to the end of the age.” ( Matt. 28: 18-20).

    First observation, here is one of the discourses that so plainly, and emphatically show forth, and confirm the ‘Trinity’ that IS* the three distinct, yet inseperable, Co-eternal, Co-existent, and Co-equal, Persons of the Godhead.

    Secondly, note carefully, that ‘the’ definite article, preceeds EACH ONE of the THREE Persons of the Godhead, ‘….of THE FATHER, and of THE SON, and of THE HOLY SPIRIT.”

    Thirdly, and it IS* imperative to recognize, that the ‘NAME’ singular is specifically used, and NOT ‘names’ as if it were ‘names’ instead of ‘IN the NAME’ that would imply ‘tritheism’ three Gods, NO!NO!NO!, It IS* One Eternal, Co-equal Godhead, yes, a mystery, cannot be fathomed our properly grasped by our finite minds, BUT, to be accepted and received by faith, as it IS revealed in His Word the Bible.

    And, last but by no means least, the NAME* that IS* above every other NAME, the greatest compound Redemptive NAME* of Jehovah, ever revealed IS* THE LORD
    JESUS CHRIST!

    Don’t try to figure it out, it will send you MAD, leave it to the Godhead, just receive it, like a little child, in simple FAITH.


  82. …….’Don’t try to figure it out, it will send you MAD, leave it to the Godhead, just receive it, like a little child, in simple FAITH.’

    Truer words have never been spoken !!! 😉


  83. The Bible says that we can understand the Godhead:
    “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, EVEN HIS eternal power and GODHEAD; so that they are without excuse”. Romans 1:20
    “Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD” Deut. 6:4
    I am leaving the island this afternoon, I wish we could continue….


  84. @ AC

    “And God said everything is Good! However this same God has found it necessary to grow two trees in the Garden 1 of Good and one of EVIL. Is n’t this the same God who says everything was “GOOD” so then why spoil the GOOD with growing a Tree of (good) & EVil.What was he thinking Zoe or TB…”

    POWERFUL ???

    Why did God choose the knowledge of good and evil?

    Since everything else God planted in the garden was GOOD*, the natural choice of something to choose from would be the knowledge of evil…
    YOU SEE LUCIFER HAD ALREADY CAUSED MUTINY IN PARADISE & WAS SET TO WIELD HIS DIABOLICAL AXE* OF DECEPTION WITH OUR 1ST PARENTS – SO THE CREATOR GOD MADE THEM AWARE OF WHAT THEY FACED FROM THIS SUBTLE ENEMY!!!

    God’s plan for Adam and Eve was to enjoy each other and their fellowship with Him without the influence of evil. God did not want Adam and Eve to experience evil or even know about it. However, Satan had already rebelled against God and then tempted Eve to join him in rebellion against God.

    Satan used the oldest ploy in his playbook of deceit – God is a cosmic killjoy who is trying to keep something good from you.

    Satan first asked Eve about the “TREE” from which they were told not to eat. Eve told Satan they were not to eat of the forbidden fruit or they would die. Satan’s reply indicated that God was a liar and that He just wanted to keep something good (the fruit) from them, saying, “God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

    So, Adam and Eve gained knowledge of the difference between good and evil through direct experience, instead of through instruction by God.

    The text suggests that Adam and Eve had enjoyed daily walks with God through the garden prior to their fall (Genesis 3:8).

    The knowledge of evil brought fear and shame to Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:10). So, the knowledge of good and evil was not a good thing, since it ruined their innocent relationship with God and each other.

    (CF. God & Science)


  85. While we are busy focusing on over-simplifications and nebulous ideas as to “WHY” God would do what HE* did – a proper exegetical reading of the BOOK* reminds us that the FIRST* [3] chapter of the BIBLE* paints a VIVID* picture of the most important “TREE” – The TREE* of “LIFE” and the last chapter in the book of Revelation again bring to the fore this central theme of how this TREE* OF LIFE* will be crucial to a new eternal age where as men eat of this glorious life-giving FRUIT* never to die or suffer ever again…

    The march of human history from Adam to the Earth* made NEW* has been to get mankind to that most important “TREE”***

    The only TEST* is OBEDIENCE – but that’s also based on our CHOICE!!!


  86. @Zoe
    You are truly amazing. You exemplify the concept of blindness caused by an unwillingness to see…..LOL

    In normal circumstances, the Bushman would follow David’s (wise) lead, and thank you for your patience, but you are special and a formidable defender of your theology – so Bushie is hooked…

    Come on Zoe, you are surely not arguing that if the bushman was to acquire a cute bulldog as a family pet, and that bulldog later turned out to be a vicious killer and mauler – that Bushie would bear no responsibility since what was initially acquired was a pet….?
    …or that, should your adult child become a criminal menace to society, you will bear NO responsibility except for that child’s early life?

    READ THIS VERY SLOWLY:

    You are correct when you posit that everything that God created was Good, but you seriously underestimate God’s vision and power, and you are completely MISSING God’s purpose for creating the project in the first place.

    Your position is further complicated by ac’s question “why did God place the forbidden tree in the middle of the garden?”. Was that a ‘good’ tree? Or did it evolve to it’s forbidden status through free will too?

    All of the evidence clearly shows that God’s plan for mankind REQUIRES that there be things like a forbidden tree; a Satan; and that EXACTLY the kind of chaos and pain that characterize our world even as we speak, occurs.

    ….now can we go on to clear up what ‘good’ means; and WHY exactly
    we are here….?


  87. @TMB: “Life on planet earth in the 21st century PROVES* unequivocally that man is still EATING* from the wrong TREE*… hence we are still dying!!!

    Terence… One of things I’ve noted about your (voluminous) writing is you make claims without supporting them with evidence.

    You have an presupposition, and an agenda. And you think a few thousand (or a few tens of thousands) of words will cow people into thinking you know more than they do, and thus you must be correct.

    Wrong.

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