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It seems appropriate given the season to discuss how the abuse of alcohol can rack the body.
GP
I promise that I would look at this after 2 August 2010… If that’s outright with you…no? (You must forgive the English…)
@ Doc GP
Just as there is the possibility of alcohol addiction, can there be such a thing as soft drink (soda/pop drinks) addiction? In particular, like coca cola? If so, how detrimental can this be to the body?
How it used to soothe my pain
at the very mention of its name
O Johnny Walker Black
Will I ever take you back?
Raymond seems it drives you to wax poet. You might yet be able to go down in history with the great poets. Perhaps you are a poet
but you just dont know it!
Mr Hood
Yes there is apparently some addiction to Coca Cola, and soft drinks. The addiction with soft drinks is an addiction to sugar and high fructose corn syrup.
I am now hearing that the later is worse than sugar in that high fructose corn syrup apparently leads to fatty acid synthesis and storage. I have not been able to ascertain why this effect should be different from the effect of fructose obtained by the digestion of sucrose (cane or beet sugar.)
@Doc GP
Thanks for the response, Doc. I was just trying to figure out whether there was any correlation between my heavy consumption of coca cola and the gradual onset of very painful joints. The medics cannot seem to explain this situation even after numerous tests.
Hoodie
There very well maybe a correlation between your heavy consumption of coca cola and your gradual onset of very painful joints.
I have read lots of bad stuff online about Coca Cola and its acidity etc. Such as Coke use it to degrease thier trucks. But I dont know if its true or not. But I have avoided Coke for a very long time.
Why dont you do some research online on the various arthritides? Let David put it on the list of issues for us to present on BU.
@ Dr. GP
Man, you know how to throw cold water on my plans! I have a bumper crop of grapes and was planning on making a batch of wine this Fall. You can only eat so many grapes before they go bad. The squirells, chipmounts and raccoons can only eat so much too. Man that picture of the liver with chirossis would turn anyone off their lickers – even Hants.
@Hoodie
You sure you don’t have gout?
@Pat
A likkle for the stomach’s sake…lol
@ David
That’s been ruled out. However, that would definitely not be something I should have to consider seeing as how that is a disease of the “very rich” and famous folk. 🙂
Hood
I believe you have what we call in the East Arthur-itis… acute aversion to Arthurs that comes with old age my man (permanent gout)…
Pat you can make grape juice, instead of wine. LOL
The presentation does not say you should not have ANY drinks, it suggests you should not take MANY! LOL
Gout is indeed one of the arthritides David but is it not restricted to certain joints?. Or are you suggesting that the high levels of acid Hoodie is taking causing precipitation of uric acid all over? But then if it was gout the fellas would pick up the uricemia by blood tests every since.
@ Pat,
One to two drinks a day prevents Heart disease.
you need to understand the difference between moderation and murderation.
Mek de wine and share it wid yuh nighbers
David,
I would like to get some responses from some of the BU folk on whether or not there are others experiencing the same thing.
This may not be the right thread though as that will divert somewhat from the original topic of this thread. Perhaps, as Doc GP suggested you could keep this in mind for another thread on health issues.
Hoodie you dont have to be rich and famous to get gout man. I will put up something on gout tomorrow maybe. I might try to figure out this conundrum you have sounds challenging.
Do you have conjunctivitis by any chance?
Man Georgie lef this kinda talk till next month nah
@ BAFBFP,
That has also been ruled out. the medics have found evidence of some arthritis of the spine caused by physical trauma in the past but cannot account for the other painful joints and, I may add as well, some of the larger muscles,
BTW, I have been considering some oriental treatment (acupuncture) as may be suggested by your “family & friends” in de east. 🙂
@GP
Hant’s assertion that a likkle alcohol is is good conflicts with your slide #3. Please expand.
@ Doc GP,
No, nothing like that was diagnosed. My “quacks” [ 🙂 ] down here (and I have seen a few) can’t seem to figure it out.
Hoodie
Dont call the men quacks. You just not fitting into any well known disease patterns. It may be easier to get the diagnosis with time. We done decide you dont have Gout or Reiters (arthritis uveitis and GC urethritis) LOL. Maybe you not telling the men de truth Hoodie , ma boy. LOL
With a likkle of Pat’s grape wine on your joints and a little effort we will work this thing out. LOL
@ Doc GP
Doc man, these guys/ladies have put me through the wringer over the course of time but no firm diagnosis so far. My use of the word “quacks” is only a bit of light-hearted humour, so don’t go getting ruffled under the collar, now. 🙂
I have been as forthright as possible with them, answering their queries to the best of my ability where ever I could. And, of course, you would be aware of my background, seeing you have an excellent memory. So you would know I would try to be as truthful as can be. 🙂
@David,
did you read GP’s presentation?
The last page states
“Moderate drinking has been associated with reduced
mortality
• Prevents Heart Disease
– 25–40% with moderate consumption
(1–2 drinks/day)
– Decreased clotting and increased HDL
– No benefit to more alcohol”
Did I miss something David?
@ Hants
What I remember reading, Hants, is that the correlation between the wine and good health has as yet been UNPROVED, according to the Doc’s last slide. But at my age I may be having trouble with my eyesight too. 🙂
David
Hants asserts One to two drinks a day prevents Heart disease. This has been said to be so although some are debating this. Some are quibbling about how much a drink is. LOL
I seem to have read some one saying that you must take a little for the stomach’s sake. This is a quotation from Timothy. Apparently Timothy had some stomach malady that was due to bad water. So grape juice whether unfermented or unfermented was considered a cure.
None of these statements are in conflict with slide # 3 Sir!
slide # 3 points out that alcohol supplies calories to the tune of 7 kcal/g, but that it has no other nutritive value
It is not stored in the body except for its conversion to fat in the liver. where it is metabolized. BUt we already know that fatty (likka) livers not good!
Alcohol is not necessary or critical function in the body, nor does it provide growth support for body or organs, as has been proven for fats carbohydates proteins minerals vitamins etc.
Slide # 3 is merely saying that although one gets 7 kcal/g from alcohol intake it has no nutritional value. We of course have witnessed this by our observations of the chronic alcoholics amongst us. LOL
Anyhow guys,
I pulling the plug here for now as the “likkle” lady has just informed me that she is off to bed and wants to know if I am doing the same.
Will pick up from here tomorrow morning. Have a blessed night all.
Ok Hoodie. We must try to think up an answer for you.
In the interim I suggest that like King David you get some young virgins (but you must keep them thus) to lie with you and lick Pat’s grape wine of your joints.
This is a new treatment now being advertised on BU! LOL
Thanks, GP will try to remember to let the wife know that when I try to get her to understand that it is doctor recommended. Nite, nite. 🙂
@GP,
I read your presentation in its entirety as I do all your medical presentations.
David and De Hood need to read the last page again.
I
@GP,
in the bible it says give a man some wine if he is troubled.
a little for the mind’s sake?
Oh Dear Robin
Once again we in East find that you only seek us out when GP in the West have fun at your condition… We in the East never make fun at condition. My intelligent agent tells me that there are two practicing Eastern Traditional Physicians on island, very very good with needles. You have strong Chi, you must make work for you ..no?
Hants
Could you give the reference for your quotation
“in the bible it says give a man some wine if he is troubled……a little for the mind’s sake?”
GP I can’t remember where I read or heard it.
If you have not read it in the Bible then I accept that I am mistaken.
This could be what I referred to.The last sentence. I am no Scholar so anything I write may need scholarly intervention.
Proverbs 31: 6-7 “Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.”
Mr Hood
Have you read up about Sjögren syndrome online to see if you fit into this pattern.
Mr Hants
I can see that you would like that verse.LOL.
@GP, thanks for posting this, as a friend of mine died from this. I will read later as I am having problems downloading right now.
That said, is it correct that women do not tolerate alcohol (in the long term) as well as men? I have seen examples myself, women who have imbibed over time, look so.
Also, I have known a couple of guys who lived on the thing, or at least every payday. One lived to a decent age, the other, in and out of the horspittle a couple times but still ticking.
Crusoe
As usual, you ask intelligent questions or/and add serious comments of worth on scientific matters.
First you ask “ is it correct that women do not tolerate alcohol (in the long term) as well as men? “
As pointed out in one of the slides women have less water in their normal body composition than men and therefore have less water to dilute the effects alcohol. Because they have a higher percentage of fat than men so much of the alcohol can be temporarily absorbed and stored in their body fat, thereby prolonging the effects of a similar “dose” /quantity/size drink than men.
As pointed out in the same slide women have 40% less alcohol dehydrogenase activity than men, Consequently, more of a given “dose” /quantity/size drink will escape metabolism in the first bypass through the liver, get into the systemic circulation and be carried to the fatty tissues from which it is later released thereby maintaining blood alcohol levels longer. In addition, for the same reason, because the alcohol is more likely to be taken to the brain, women are more likely to get drunk faster.
You then raised the issue of the variable response to chronic alcoholics in terms of longevity and related commonly observed features.
Chronic alcoholics have their liver alcohol dehydogenases INDUCED to various extents. Slide 15 and a few others in the presentation points out that only liver can metabolize alcohol and convert it first to acetylaldehyde then to acetic acid, which can enter the Krebs cycle as acetyl-CoA to provide a small amount of energy.
Some persons, on sniffing alcohol or having it in cake will get drunk, or tipsy (seen that recently in a female.) This is because their liver alcohol dehydogenases do not work very well and take a while to convert the alcohol and take it out of the blood stream. The alcohol thus enters the brain and such imbibers get drunk and can be come comatosed. Such persons are very likely to fall and get a serious head injury, from which they die. Many such alcoholics have died unwittingly in holding cells, having been arrested for being a public nuisance following a drinking spell.
There are other chronic alcoholics whose liver alcohol dehydogenases have been INDUCED to various extents. That is their liver enzymes break down the alcohol at increasingly faster rates. Such persons are reported to be able to “hold their likkers!”. But if you check the slides with the metabolism or if David will upload the presentation I submitted recently on likker livers you will notice that these chronic alcoholics suffer from hepatitis and fatty liver. This is because the alcohol is converted to fat and stored only in the liver. The liver was not designed for this purpose! Also the result of hepatic is repair by scarring- also known as cirrhosis. Some folk have been known to still be around running on 10% of their livers.
I hope this detail account enlightens you as to the diversity of the effect of alcohol on the subjects that you have observed.
Off topic- but maybe of interest to some
Concerns about some additives:
Monosodium glutamate (MSG) causes some people to experience episodes of sweating and increased blood pressure
Sulfites cause severe reactions in some people
So Check food labels
Toxicants from preservation or preparation
Broiling meat produces oxidized fats, pyrolysis products of amino acids , carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.
Smoking and nitrate and nitrite additives – contain precursors of N-nitrosamines.
Carcinogens – cancers of the mouth, esophagus, larynx, liver, and kidney.
@GP
Must have missed this presentation on Likker livers…lol. Too many emails!
Note you were pelting some hooks at some short ones.
On a recent comment are you warning JC not to drink any likkers in your presence when you visit Barbados? Her head mite be light!
David
Is the Editor of BU suggesting that his medical correspondent will take advantage of JC while she is under the influence of highly processed cane juice, or products from BBB?
No David alcohol wont be passing her blood brain barrier — it will be sugar!
@ Doc GP
You stated:- “Have you read up about Sjögren syndrome online to see if you fit into this pattern.”
…………………………………………………………………………………………….
Well, GP, can you explain what “a dry mouth” would have to do with my particular case?
If I did not know different I would think you were being somewhat sarcastic.
@Doc GP
OK, my apologies, on further searching I see that it is also associated with rheumatic conditions eg. rheumatoid arthritis etc. But no this would not apply either in my case. Unless, a bout of rheumatic fever as a teenager would have had some detrimental effect at that point.
Doc GP
At present, I practically exist on daily doses of acetaminophen or codeine with acetaminophen.
Hoodie
As you know I have not sat with you to take a history. But I watched a documentary where some real quacks up here took 50 years to diagnose a woman with that illness. If I say that I put out the diagnosis withinn minutes of the start of the documentary, the haters on BU would say I am bigging up my self.
Dry mouth means what it says. It is seen in a few other illnesses. I am glad you dont fit into that pattern
Make sure you dont take more than 10 acetamenophen (panadol) daily. It would not be nice on your liver.
Have you tried tumeric for pain
BTW you can have arthritis with GC arthritis , i.e Reiters syndrome. I saw a documentary where they took years to diagose that one too. LOL
@Georgie Porgie
I’d pour me four five bishops and still be sane
We’ve been away from each other for so long
I could’nt appreciate you now in any form
I always liked to have you neat and never left you off the beat
O Johnny Walker black
How I wish I could take you back!
@ Doc GP
OK Doc, I’ll do some research on Reiters and see where we go with that, thanks for all your suggestions thus far. Believe me it’s been a real pain in the a$$ over the last few years not knowing just what could be wrong and if it could be treatable. I think I could make a lot of money writing a “history of pain”, ie if I was a writer! Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining it’s just that I would like to be able to get to the bottom of it if that is at all possible.
Yeah, I’m aware that acetaminophen could be a real “bitch” where the liver is concerned. I try to limit them to 8 or less per day. However, I am concerned of the long-term effect if I have to continue using them over an extended period of time.
You think tumeric would help? What dosage, any recommendations?
Raymond
Give me a good rhyme and then a limerick man. I dare you LOL
@ Doc GP
OK Doc, Reiters sounds “interesting”. What are the specific tests for such a diagnosis?
Another interesting suggestion by my medics {quacks 🙂 } btw, I see I have you using the same terminology, was “fibromyalgia” However, I do not present as a “true”f/ myalgia patient.
@de hood,
if you like pepper sauce, you can add tumeric and maybe get the benefit of the pepper and tumeric.
I add tumeric to pepper sauce to improve the taste. Didn’t know about the benefit in reducing pain.
Thanks GP
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