Sir Hilary Beckles Principal of UWI, Cave Hill

Well, well, well, it seems two of our well known academics have decided that the best way to resolve a difference of opinion is to engage in a highly public discourse. Could it be we have seen the emergence of a strain of ZR behaviour which has now ascended to Bajan academia? What kind of society are we building when our most educated would resort to exhibiting  the most intransigent attitude in public? What example are they setting for the youthful minds they have been given charge with moulding?

Conflict can be good when the process is managed to achieve positive outcomes. The disagreement gone public between Principal Sir Hilary Beckles and Professor Michael Howard of the University of the West Indies, Cave Hill begs the question, who is managing the current conflict to assure a positive outcome?

BU believes there is merit to the positions of both gentlemen. Professor Howard has suggested that given the harsh economic conditions being experienced by government the UWI should slow the intake of students. The result of such an action would be to reduce government spend at the UWI, Cave Hill. Principal Beckles has retorted with a strong and unexpected response which does not merit restating. The longer this matter remains in the public domain the Nation newspaper will continue to smile. This is a serious matter.

Professor Michael Howard

If we understand Howard correctly he wants to see a slow down in the intake of students at UWI, Cave Hill. As an economist, he has assessed the current state of the Barbados economy and has obviously concluded the government would be better served to reduce its subsidy to the UWI, Cave Hill at this time. According to Howard, Principal Beckles has been responsible for quantity and not quality. Howard’s position is supported by comments we have heard emanating from the Barbados Chamber of Commerce through the years. We have UWI, Cave Hill lecturers also supporting Howard’s point on the talk shows; historian Ann Gill comes to mind.

Professor Beckles over the years has compromised or should we say sacrificed many positions he once held when he became administrator at UWI, Cave Hill. There was a time when Sir Hilary Beckles would not be caught dead sitting on the Board of Cable & Wireless, a company which continues to be relentless in its drive to extract revenue, and to send home people from Barbados and the region despite the depressed economic conditions. BU agrees with Beckles’ position that education has been responsible for advancing Barbados up the economic ladder. Obviously the current situation calls for Beckles, Howard and relevant stakeholders to resolve their differences away from the public glare. As head of the UWI, Cave Hill, Beckles would have erred when he went public with this matter. He would have succeeded in creating a toxic environment which has only served to polarized this matter.

What BU finds interesting is why should this matter have escalated even though Prime Minister Thompson is quoted in the media agreeing with Beckles that the government should do all that it can to not compromise the intake of students at Cave Hill. Is there more to this matter? Is this a case of the old way conflicting with the new?

There is the old saying one must know when and where. God help us!

140 responses to “Principal Sir Hilary Beckles and Professor Michael Howard In Public Disagreement At UWI, Cave Hill”


  1. @adrianhinds
    To make it simple
    Question: I have 100hundred bad apples
    and 50 good apples which would you prefer to spend your money on.
    In the world that i live in people value their money and the way they want to spend it .


  2. @ac…

    Let’s just go a little deeper, shall we?

    What if some of the apples deciding on the other apples aren’t so good themselves?

    What happens then?


  3. Adrian Said….. [When you heard that comment, you had a personal responsibility to ask yourself why it is that you operate your blog clothed in a cloak of secrecy.]

    ————————————————
    The Bushman created a bogus argument and attempts to assigned ownership to me. The Bushman surely knows that the only intent of mine that he could possibly be correct on without my saying so, is if it is Lunch-time, I am in the Holders Hill vicinity and I remark that I am hungry. Other than that he knows not what I think or intend. lol!

    BU wanted to make an issue out of a lack of interest by UWI affiliates to speak publically, in the same Barbados that he finds it necessary to be underground and undercover. I do not want BU to “come out” (only Mia) lol! I just want him to consider why he is a doppelganger when examine similar behavior by others in Barbados. I am not the one making a case for anyone to come to the public with their opinions. It is BU. It is for BU to consider who from UWI is already on the blogs giving their opinions. I am on the blogs daily looking for an argument, not persons or personalities because I don’t “friends” well. Lol!

    BTW I ain’t buying that story about a bursary for a Degree and UWI nor de scholarship thing either. Lol! It your “history” is true, then I my assumptions are likely to be still accurate. “You did not pay for them” lol!

    @AC
    I hope to God that you’re not representative of Barbadian business culture or hold a UWI issued degree with a focus on Business. I spoke earlier about BDP (best demonstrated practice) I would use a BDP analysis on the 50 good ones to change the value of the 100 bad ones. The 50 good ones would have delivered a ROI (return on Investment). Lol!


  4. de Bush man said…..
    You hear anybody propose a unilateral CUT in enrollment at UWI? …. that is such a simplistic assessment of the discussion that it sounds ‘American’.
    ————————————————–
    unilateral no. But what is the point of suggesting a scaling back of enrollment due to a bad economy?


  5. @Adrian

    Don’t understand your argument. UWI affiliates to use your term speaking or writing critically on economic issues has nothing to do with anonymity. There are UWI grads who speak and write publicly who provide enough of a sample to judge.


  6. But David you said…..
    …whenever we have a serious debate when we want to hear the best economic arguments from our people there is silence.
    ————————————————–

    I was merely asking you think about why they are silent. It could be that there is fear of reprisal. We love to think that our society has matured to the point that they there would not be a backlash for speaking out.


  7. @Adrian

    and our position stands, whenever we want to hear the best economic argument from UWI affiliates there is silence. In other words, those speaking or writing don’t make critical arguments in our opinion, therefore our description of silence. Don’t blame you for your interpretation of what was written originally though, it was not clear on our part.


  8. Firstly, I see no problem with the two gentlemen publicly challenging each others statements.

    After all, is that not what the blogsphere has been advocating for the longest while i.e. transparency.

    With such an important institution and more importantly, education being abnational building column, this matter should be addressed in depth and completely.

    Firstly, the economic argument, while having some justification, cannot be the priority here, when we have not even addressed other economic keys.

    Firstly, on the income side, we are only now hearing one economist i.e. Professor Robsinson, mentioning the increase to VAT as one alternative, although I disagree and would increase permanently or as long as necessary.

    Secondly, where is capital gains tax on property and shares?

    That is the income side.

    On the expenditure side, we cannot discuss reduction of expenditures without discussing national priorities first and not without first assessing (and I do not mean long-winded, I mean quick and effective) costs across the Government platform, matching these to priorities and THEN maki9ng remarks and decisions about what needs to be cut.

    Just as an example, would it not be wise to burn, say, 20% less electricity in Gov’t buildings and KEEP the University intake?

    But, we need figures to make this decisions.

    That said, we now come to the quality issue.

    This is a separate issue from intake. This is about relevance, about effective programmes and about effective instruction and assessment. Nothing else.

    Therefore, the quality issue may be dealth with by programme and output assessment, as independent from an economic study.

    Certainly, the above recommendations on a limited time cap for Gov’t full-sponsored study, then a percentage payment, after say four or five years, may be considered and is a good suggestion.

    This is the link where quality/ financial input becomes relevant, where the system is either abused or not working.

    That said, if a student needs over five years for the first degree, there are most likely either personal issues involved or the programme has failed.

    Thus, essentially I am agreeing with Sir Hilary Beckles overall point, that now is not the time to arbitrarily cut University spend, unless one first assesses other spends and income options, which have not yet been addressed. It does not make sense.

    I am not syaing that a fiscal crisis is not serious, read my previous posts and you will see that I take it very seriously.

    However Professor Howard is advocating action on expenditures, but what other expenditures can be cut first, what about other forms of income?

    I take Professor Howard’s warning seriously, but see it more as an overall warning rather than specific to the University.

    On the issue of education per se, raising standards across the board is necessary, from secondary to tertiary.

    Indeed however, most multi-national eomployers do look for the degree, as a first job entry certification.

    This, is another reason why we must beware of rushing into expenditure cutting in education before other options.

    But, temper that point with relevance of programmes, to the practical world.


  9. ‘Professor Robsinson, mentioning the increase to VAT as one alternative, although I disagree and would increase permanently or as long as necessary.’

    S/be ‘temporarily increase to VAT’ …’although I disagree and would permanently increase VAT, or at least for as long as necessary’.


  10. Finally David,

    I must reiterate that I am very disturbed by the suggestion that these two gentlemen should not make their feelings publicly known.

    All that happened is that Professor Howard, as is his right (and responsibility even), said that ‘whoa…we are in deep….’ (paraphrase), then Sir Hilary in reply, basically said ‘no..that is not right, our furtherance of intellectual development depends on entry availability’…

    The reference to ‘anti-intellectual’ does not seem an insult but a thought on the effect of the potential action.

    Nothing else.

    I am not a believer in hiding things behind closed doors.


  11. @Crusoe

    Thought the key point made in the blog among others is to question the tone of the debate (if we can call it that) between the two academics. Sir Hilary as boss referring to Dr. Howard as anti-intellectual is uncalled for and attracts too much emotion into debate.

    Yes BU has called for debate from those on the Hill but if this is how it will be conducted they should keep their sequestered views. The very nature of the debate now because of the tone means our other friends from the Hill will retreat from the public debate and leave it to the boss and the old veteran whose mortgage is probably paid-up.

    But you are entitled to your view.


  12. @AdrianHinds
    What you hope or think about me is irrelevant. The fact is that where thereis waste some one in charge must step up to the challenge and do something about it.


  13. David,

    Take your point. But, surely one of the measures of a matured society is the ability to give and take constructive criticism without taking personal affront?

    I would be disappointed if Sir Hilary could not take a comment from a member of his team as constructive, rather than a personal affront.

    Thus, my interpretation is his quote is referring to the potential action, not the Professor himself.

    Indeed, I too have seen bosses who see it as ‘their way or the highway’ and take comments as personal affronts, egos too big to hide.

    That state of mind is a reflection of their mentally immature and ironically an ‘uneducated’ mindset, if one takes education as holistic rather than merely topical or a reflection of the number of papers one can accumulate.

    Are we a mature society, with anyone from politicians, professors, judges, permanent secretaries, labourers, cricketers able to take conbstructive criticism, or are we a nation of spoilt brats?


  14. @Crusoe

    Not sure if our society has reached that level of maturity to which you refer. Also there is the point to be made that this is not only a debate between the two academics maturity not withstanding. The wider publics must become involved and therein lies the problem Mr. Watson.


  15. Sir Hilary has a full page article in today’s Sunday Sun and Advocate (http://www.barbadosadvocate.com/todayspaper/default.asp – pg 42) where he seems to have calmed down a bit and tries to explain his position in a more civil tone.

    He admits to many of the challenges UWI is facing and will continue to face and has to be given credit for his frankness.

    His argument seems essentially to be that we need to have faith that these challenges can and will be overcome and that the benefits will outweigh the costs.


  16. The National Strategic Plan 2005-2025 speaks to the establishment of a University College of Barbados.

    This is how the University College is described in the 2003 BLP manifesto:

    More Barbadians are seeking education at the tertiary level than can be currently accommodated at the Barbados Community College, Samuel Jackman Prescod Polytechnic, Erdiston Teachers Training College and the University of the West Indies.

    “We will establish the University College of Barbados that can fully meet our existing and future training needs, broaden the scope of educational opportunities, and offer training in areas not previously given recognition. That will widen the services presently offered by the Barbados Community College, Erdiston Teachers Training College and the Samuel Jackman Prescod Polytechnic.”

    The DLP’s 2008 manifesto speaks about a “Community University.”

    So, what ever happened to the University College of Barbados, and does the government’s target of one graduate per household include graduates of Community College, Erdiston and the Polytechnic?

    Is this the same as Sir Hilary’s target of one university graduate per household?


  17. @Brutus

    Good point raised!

    Maybe we will get some answers on the VOB talk show this morning at 11AM. Not sure if Dr. Leonard Shorey and a Dr. Anthony Lane can deliver, we hope so.

    Our last information about the University College was one of available finances and the logistics of set up.


  18. @Adrian
    As man Adrian! … admit that you have been bushwacked on this issue. lol
    …and next time you hungry on the Hill, check out MotherCat….

    @Crusoe
    You lost me in your support for Sir Hilary. I agree with your assessment of Dr Howard as saying basically that we have a SERIOUS problem – and using what he knows most intimately (UWI expenditures) to highlight the urgency of the matter.
    BUT…
    Surely, Sir Hilary’s response was (to paraphrase in bushman language) “wait Howard you is a idiot? what the brass bowl you talking bout cutting my money?”

    The ‘anti intellectual’ talk was just instinctive rhetoric from the glory days of the mutual affair…lol

    …and you obviously never dealt with the principal in a situation where you held strong differing views…

    Don’t get Bushman wrong. Sir Hilary is one of my heroes – up until he gave up being Barbados’ premier national educator and took up the post of Principal of Cave Hill.

    …and for Adrian Hinds benefit, Bush Tea was complaining about UWI output quality well BEFORE we had any financial issues. Indeed those were the days of 3S, VECO and GEMS – when ru4real was vocal – ha ha ha

    …and EVERYTHING said about the bush degrees is 100% true.


  19. Only recently, Sir Hilary Beckles, Principal of the Cave Hill Campus of the University of the West Indies lamented the drought-like silence of Barbadian scholars as it relates to national issues. I do concur with what I call the conspiracy of silence that has characterised the attitude of many of our academics from "the hill" in recent times.

    The quote above is taken from Mathew Farley’s article in the newspaper today. Is it reasonable to extrapolate from the reported concern of Sir Hilary that the students tutored by the very same academics et al on the ‘Hill’ is part of the problem? As stated before we need to have a needs assessment of our teaching force on the Hill as a parallel exercise. In other jurisdictions of which the BU household is aware the lecturers at the university have to do community service (support internship) which is part of the program of study i.e. acquiring credits. ALL lecturers have to be published at determined intervals or not your aspiration to achieve tenure becomes a dream.

    While Sir Hilary seems to be the only one trying to source funds for Cave Hill, in other jurisdictions other members of the faculties get involved in fund raising for their respective faculties. Obviously the faculty heads who are successful become oversubscribed and therefore represent cash cows for the UWI. In the current setup those universities maybe operating as State Schools in N.America. Dow we want Cave Hill to be a State School?


  20. @David

    I have a suspicion that you are well aware why our intellectuals are silent now and in the past. It is why Mr. Anthony Johnson was silent on economic matters during the last administration and it why we seem to only have one political scientist now too. It is why only BAPE Presidents that do not rely on government for work can be critical of government projects re: Mr Blackman from Light and Power.

    We don’t take criticism well ESPECIALLY our politicians irrespective of what they spew out in public. You critcise them and you get blacklisted…..And don’t be fooled, the government tentacles can reach far and wide…

    BC


  21. We in the PDC are sick, tired and fed up with academic fools like, Dr. Justin Robinson, talking ignorance of the highest order in this country.

    And we are even more sick, tired and fed up with some people who hardly are really productive in this country talking even more foolishness.

    The bottom of the front page of the Barbados Advocate shows a caption: Dr. Robinson: VAT increase an option, and, beneath it, part of a news story that continues on page 7, that essentially deals with him suggesting that an increase in the VAT is an option for government at this stage.

    Now, what kind of jack o lantern could Dr. Robinson be, to make such a suggestion? To purely inflame public emotions now, since psychologically the VAT, like the IMF, is an automatic controversial political subject?

    Well, almost every politically conscious person in Barbados knows that our party is diametrically unalterably opposed to TAXATION, so invariably we are virulently opposed to this proposal of a 1 % increase in the VAT, which a most backward and regressive piece of out of touch bureacratism that could by and large only have fallen out of the mouth of a half baked not so highly rated so-called economist who interestingly happens to be a Lecturer in MANAGEMENT STUDIES at the University of the West Indies Cave Hill Campus. And we are NOT about to pull any punches here either!!

    For, the survival of thousands upon thousands of poor and marginal people in this society could be in greater danger – if this stupid DLP Government ever accepts this foolishness that has clearly gone against the Prime Minister’s semi-declaration that there will be no increasing of TAXES. But what does the Prime Minister really want anyhow though? No increases in state expenditures, no public sector layoffs, no increases in TAXATION, no stimulus packages!! What does he flipping really want though??

    Anyhow, back to Dr Robinson. That he could be the beneficiary of a salary and other things that come largely through government’s wickedly stealing on a daily basis loads upon loads of portions of the incomes from esp. the broad masses and middle classes and businesses in Barbados, and then for it to be in turn having to give some of those stolen incomes to the Cave Hill Campus, so that he and other officials down there could get sweetly paid and not suffer like how the vast majority of us are suffering, and so that he could yet still have the gall to be suggesting such a wicked evil dreaded measure that will – if implemented – clearly make it harder and more miserable for the poor and vulnerable, must be a clear example of how these nasty local political bureacratic and sordid TAXATION systems together work and how almost total human errors, like Dr. Justin Robinson, are wont to exploit them to detriment of the broader masses and middle classes of this society.

    And SOME TIMES some Barbadians wonder why some so-called academics at Cave Hill are relatively silent on public issues. The fact, among other facts, is that many of them – not all though – are piss poor mediocre conservative idea starved academics who could hardly really stand up to the most rigorous of public scrutiny like how Professor Sir Hilary Beckles, Professor Howard, former member of the Social Science faculty, Professor Neville Duncan, can, and the lates Dr. Patrick Emmanuel and Wendell McClean could have.

    For, these academic scoundrels have NOT brought any outstanding intellectual theoritical writings to enhance their reputations as scholars; have NOT succeeded in bringing forward any high quality research in the many areas within which they disciplines fall; are NOT widely published nor are their works well read and cited by many other international university scholars. So, with their miserable selves they want, it seems, to make life a greater hell for many of the poor and marginal citizens of this country.

    Anyhow, let us just look a little at this particular folly of this particular Lecturer. The 2010 economic report of the performance of the Barbados economy for 2009, does state, on page 16, that:

    “Following a significant worsening of the fiscal position in 2008, there was a further widening of the fiscal deficit to an estimated $ 564.6 million ( 8.4% of GDP) in 2009, and this reflected a mrked slowdown in revenue intake on account of the weakened domestic economy and increased government expenditure.

    Revenues from the VAT, which had increased at an annual average rate of 6.5 % betwen 2001 and 2008, slumped by an estimated 18.1 % in 2009. The VAT accounted for an average of 31.8% of government revenues in the past five years, and the fall in VAT receipts in 2009 was equivalent to a loss of 5.8% of total revenue.”

    It is clear that the amount of so-called VAT thefts was down in 2009. So given that that was so and that VAT thefts continue to go down because the so-called economy is still contracting a fairly rapid rate, then raising the rate of VAT by 1 % and then having that for only one year, will definitely NOT help solve but moreso exacerbate – those very huge fiscal and financial problems of government in the short to long term, given that a 1% of total VAT thefts of just $ 725 million ( an average) as at the end of last year will mean a very sized but dangerous $ 49.5 million increase in VAT thefts, theoritically speaking, all things remaining equal. ( We are so unclear as to what Mr. Robinson suggestion should be intended to do – help resolve the fiscal problems in government, further so-called stabilize the economy what?).

    But, whatever the proposed VAT increase and the amount in stolen incomes that could be realized, and however temporary it could be, it must be condemned by the PDC in very strong terms as it could make an already disastrous national situation worse – the shot gun effects model – as that there is no sign that the government has started to put in place a stabilization program – one that is properly structured and accepted by many people, and that is focussed on reining in the unnecesarily big size of government and its total excesses and banditries – and far less that it is preparing to put in place a national material productive distributive recovery program involving the social partners.

    Surely, with the rate at which the so-called economy is tumbling it is a downright piece of nonsense for him to suggest that VAT ought to be raised, even as a last option, when to do so will increase the cost of living and doing business in Barbados and at the same time unnecesarily lower aggregate demand.

    What Barbados urgently needs right now to do is to increase its local and foreign investment options but very much on terms that are amenable to the wishes of the PDC and many others in Barbados, as that it is madness to basically rework the same old failed models and approaches.

    Surely, with the interest rates at which the government is borrowing and repaying it is another nonsensical tale of his to suggest a measure that will drive down productive and investment spending in this country – and that – when added to onerous increases in water and electricity rates, will foolhardily increase non-productive spending in the country. What Barbados clearly needs to do is to boost productive spending, and at the least costs, NOT damn well see increases in TAXATION.

    Does NOT Dr. Robinson know that the rate he has suggested could eventually lead to lower savings, higher interest rates in the financial system or greater defaults on mortgages, and greater debt, etc, as government would be darn stealing more and more of our incomes at the same time as less and less money circulates within the economy? ( according to the Central Bank economic report on the performance of the so-called economy last year the government in 2009 spent over $ 350 million in interest rate payments).

    Indeed, the rate at which overall evil TAXATION is falling is far bigger than this proposed 1 % VAT increase; which clearly shows that imports and exports that have been used to support local business and personal activities are plunging and that overall individual and business incomes are steadfastly on the decline ( evil VAT thefts according to this said Central Bank report shows that VAT thefts alone fell by approximately $ 150 million). And the rate at which businesses are closing and downsizing and persons are becoming unemployed, and the rate at which more and more incomes/income possibilities become absent from the so-called economy, is and will become far more higher than the income that government will steal to support this proposed 1 % increase. The chickens are surely coming home to roost!!

    But, it seems that there is a criminal bid on the part of this wretched DLP government to falsely protect this very unproductive and ineffecient public sector but at the same time to paradoxically preempt greater levels of productive activity in the private sector – the sector that really grows the economy. We wonder what kind of idiotic strategy this is.

    But, what Barbados needs right now are strong and effective national and sub-national policies and initiatives that will seek to totally reverse the negative trends and not ones that will accelerate them. So, shame on you, Mr. Robinson!!

    Finally, the fact remains that it is TAXATION, Interest Rates, Motor Vehicle Insurance, big and excessive government and other kinds of diabolical systems and policies, and the laws and structures that support such that we in the PDC have previously excoriated that are some of the fundamental causes why this so-called economy is in a tail spin. And which will continue to seriously affect us until the DLP and BLP are voted out of the parliament of this country and political buffoons like Dr. Robinson are no longer able to speak on their behalf.

    So, Down with the Damned DLP and the Blasted BLP!!!

    PDC


  22. @PDC
    ‘Now, what kind of jack o lantern could Dr. Robinson be, to make such a suggestion? To purely inflame public emotions now, since psychologically the VAT, like the IMF, is an automatic controversial political subject?’

    Methinks he is making the suggestion because the fiscal deficit req


  23. Crusoe // February 21, 2010 at 9:05 PM

    @PDC
    ‘Now, what kind of jack o lantern could Dr. Robinson be, to make such a suggestion? To purely inflame public emotions now, since psychologically the VAT, like the IMF, is an automatic controversial political subject?’

    Methinks he is making the suggestion because the fiscal deficit requires action, immediately.

    >>PDC ‘What Barbados urgently needs right now to do is to increase its local and foreign investment options but very much on terms that are amenable to the wishes of the PDC and many others in Barbados’

    And what investment options are these, at current rates, which are VERY low?

    >>PDC ‘Surely, with the interest rates at which the government is borrowing and repaying it is another nonsensical tale of his to suggest a measure ‘

    That is just the point, it is better to earn this additional revenue, to offset expenditures, than to borrow, at exorbitant rates and which would further send our credit rating plummeting.

    >>PDC ‘Finally, the fact remains that it is TAXATION, Interest Rates, Motor Vehicle Insurance, big and excessive government and other kinds of diabolical systems and policies, and the laws and structures that support such that we in the PDC have previously excoriated that are some of the fundamental causes why this so-called economy is in a tail spin”

    Noted that you have previously advocated abolition of taxation.

    How exactly will public servants be paid?

    How will services run?

    Your rather long and exuberant post, even if misguided, ranted a lot, but had little in terms of realistic thinking.

    Might sound nice on a political platform, until someone tried to understand and digest what lunacy you are preaching, the result of which would effectively be, no economy.

    Unless you are after a subsistence and barter system, of course.


  24. You should ask Dr Robinson about the extent of his academic training in public finance and macro- economics.

    Like doctors and engineers,etc there are many different specialties in economics.

    If he is not an expert in public finance he should not go around pretending to be one.

    Let the audience know up-front so that his utterances would not be taken seriously


  25. previous anonymous, did Dr. Robinson say anything that would suggest incompetence or lack of training?

    My own reading shows that the IMF has recommended an increase in the VAT.

    if you do not like the recommendation then state why.


  26. @anonymous: “previous anonymous, did Dr. Robinson say anything that would suggest incompetence or lack of training?

    This is *so* funny. We now have an “Anonymous Coward” arguing against another “Anonymous Coward”. (Re: SlashDot.org, who have been using “Anonymous Coward” for over ten years to describe those who don’t at least create a posting account.)

    @anonymous: “My own reading shows that the IMF has recommended an increase in the VAT.

    Just in case it isn’t yet clear to you anonymous, Barbados is a sovereign nation.

    We prefer to make our own decisions,

    And we reserve the right to do so.

  27. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Chris Halsall,

    A recommendation is not a decision, and if you take recommendations, it does not mean that you would not have made the same conclusion without it’s being recommended. Sovereignty has nothing to do with it.

    In any event, the IMF did not ‘recommend’ according the report of the discussions. The 2009 Article IV staff report lists a series of possible measures and assigns values to certain changes in them. The government was reported to be in broad agreement with the measures, but it’s up to them if they act on any of them or do other things, or just wait and see.

    Barbados only has a few ways of dealing with its fiscal deficit in the short term and it’s not rocket science to look at one of the major tax levers as an option (in the same way that looking at the wage bill or transfers as other options).


  28. @Dennis Jones.

    So then let us please ignore the noise, shall we? And get a little serious?

    @Dennis Jones… Please correct me if I’m wrong, but are there not *many* ways for Barbados to deal with where it finds itself?

    Is raising the VAT upon its Consumers the only option?

    Or are there other options?

    If so, what do you think of them?

    @Dennis Jones…

    Was constraining expenditure of the Governments’ employees considered during this IMF exercise?

    Was the Government “reported to be in broad agreement” with this suggestion?

    Come on “Living in Barbados”…

    You are a trained Economist….

  29. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Chris Halsall, take a look at the Article IV report. It’s on the IMF website and I’ve cited it and its links many times. Raising taxes, cutting spending, selling assets is what the options boil down to.


  30. Initial analysis
    Deconstruction + Reconstruction of Government and Financial Systems is required
    i.e. get rid of all the dead wood (chop chop chop)
    Poor People Must Work


  31. sorry wrong thread for dr robinson above


  32. Our economists seem to be parrots. Some of them should be in the theatre. We need deep analysis and serious solutions to solve our problems. The IMF perspectives might be right, but when you are a serious academic, you need to do more than just repeat what the IMF says.

  33. People's Business Avatar
    People’s Business

    Dr Hilary Beckles is going to be on The People’s Business tomorrow Tuesday 23rd February.

    Don’t know who is going to interview him,hope it is not Peter Thorne or Peter wickham;I hope it will be a seasoned and Quality journalist like Reudon Eversley the Head of News & Current Affairs at CBC.


  34. @Mr. Dennis Jones: “Raising taxes, cutting spending, selling assets is what the options boil down to.

    Well, yes, of course.

    Exactly like any household. Except in the case of a household “raising taxes” would be replaced with “increase earnings”.

    But I believe I also asked you, as a trained “international economist” , what you thought about each option.

    Please let us also not forget that each option expands into several sub-options.

    What do *you* think would be the best way forward for Barbados?

  35. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Chris Halsall, what one may think is the best way forward for Barbados only really makes sense when we consider policy objectives and their time frame. So, my choosing between the alternatives (few or many) is an exercise in conjecture as I have no policy objectives (or constituents to consider) and could put forward solutions that fit some technical template but are far from acceptable to a politician. The options are there and known and the key step is for policy makers to decide which, if any, they want to take and when.


  36. Our strategy is as follows…
    … there is no strategy


  37. @Dennis Jones: “So, my choosing between the alternatives (few or many) is an exercise in conjecture as I have no policy objectives (or constituents to consider) and could put forward solutions that fit some technical template but are far from acceptable to a politician.

    I appreciate your above, even though you refused to answer my question…

    So, then, might I please ask you to answer the following…

    Do you believe that economic thinking is currently being subjugated to political ideology?

    What says you, Mr. Dennis Jones?

  38. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Chris Halsall, I’m glad that you appreciate the above. I did answer the question, though not perhaps in terms you would wish. But, more generally, I also am not obliged to answer.

    We’ve gone over the economics/politics issue a few weeks ago, on the thread for
    http://bajan.wordpress.com/2010/01/10/using-economics-for-political-ends-can-be-destructive/, so for the sake of efficiency, I am not going to rehash that discussion.


  39. @Dennis Jones…

    Amusing…

    Rather than answer the question, you refer (nebulously) to what you claim you said previously…

    You are the antithesis of PDC…

    Please Mr. Jones… Please speak to my questions *directly*.

    Please feel free to repeat yourself….


  40. I am no great economist, but central to dealing with the fiscal problem must be a well conceived and enforced programme for expenditure control.
    We should look at a wage freeze, and an increase in VAT as secondary options or supporting options

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