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Principal Sir Hilary Beckles and Professor Michael Howard In Public Disagreement At UWI, Cave Hill

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Sir Hilary Beckles Principal of UWI, Cave Hill

Well, well, well, it seems two of our well known academics have decided that the best way to resolve a difference of opinion is to engage in a highly public discourse. Could it be we have seen the emergence of a strain of ZR behaviour which has now ascended to Bajan academia? What kind of society are we building when our most educated would resort to exhibiting  the most intransigent attitude in public? What example are they setting for the youthful minds they have been given charge with moulding?

Conflict can be good when the process is managed to achieve positive outcomes. The disagreement gone public between Principal Sir Hilary Beckles and Professor Michael Howard of the University of the West Indies, Cave Hill begs the question, who is managing the current conflict to assure a positive outcome?

BU believes there is merit to the positions of both gentlemen. Professor Howard has suggested that given the harsh economic conditions being experienced by government the UWI should slow the intake of students. The result of such an action would be to reduce government spend at the UWI, Cave Hill. Principal Beckles has retorted with a strong and unexpected response which does not merit restating. The longer this matter remains in the public domain the Nation newspaper will continue to smile. This is a serious matter.

Professor Michael Howard

If we understand Howard correctly he wants to see a slow down in the intake of students at UWI, Cave Hill. As an economist, he has assessed the current state of the Barbados economy and has obviously concluded the government would be better served to reduce its subsidy to the UWI, Cave Hill at this time. According to Howard, Principal Beckles has been responsible for quantity and not quality. Howard’s position is supported by comments we have heard emanating from the Barbados Chamber of Commerce through the years. We have UWI, Cave Hill lecturers also supporting Howard’s point on the talk shows; historian Ann Gill comes to mind.

Professor Beckles over the years has compromised or should we say sacrificed many positions he once held when he became administrator at UWI, Cave Hill. There was a time when Sir Hilary Beckles would not be caught dead sitting on the Board of Cable & Wireless, a company which continues to be relentless in its drive to extract revenue, and to send home people from Barbados and the region despite the depressed economic conditions. BU agrees with Beckles’ position that education has been responsible for advancing Barbados up the economic ladder. Obviously the current situation calls for Beckles, Howard and relevant stakeholders to resolve their differences away from the public glare. As head of the UWI, Cave Hill, Beckles would have erred when he went public with this matter. He would have succeeded in creating a toxic environment which has only served to polarized this matter.

What BU finds interesting is why should this matter have escalated even though Prime Minister Thompson is quoted in the media agreeing with Beckles that the government should do all that it can to not compromise the intake of students at Cave Hill. Is there more to this matter? Is this a case of the old way conflicting with the new?

There is the old saying one must know when and where. God help us!

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140 responses to “Principal Sir Hilary Beckles and Professor Michael Howard In Public Disagreement At UWI, Cave Hill”

  1. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    David,
    Dr Howard is correct in both of the positions that he posited.

    First, as was said here on BU by no less a rebel than BT, (UWI Expansion Plans Misguided~Need To First Address Relevance.) The principal is an empire builder – more intent on quantity than quality.

    Secondly, if we are looking at freezing pay for persons in the workplace, surely we need to look at controlling expenses being thrown at ‘poor rakey’ degrees whose graduates mostly go on to clerical ‘filing type’ jobs.

    ….besides, what kind of manager responds PUBLICLY to an employee in that tone???
    …easy to guess how he relates to dissenting views inhouse….

  2. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    Since the system is structured to turn out nothing more than cannon fodder for globalist economic machine year in & year out, the best option would be to CLOSE it

    UNTIL

    one of these brainiacs step up to the plate and design a structure that would truly educe…i.e draw out from within these youngters [who after 9/10 yrs in secondary school should have some degree of knowledge by then] those skills and techniques necessary to build a sound society, instead of more indoctrination.

    The whole education system needs revamping….starting at the primary level.

  3. The Scout Avatar
    The Scout

    It would be interesting to find out the amount of money the barbados government has to fork out every year for university education. There are too many children just wasting time and money at UWI Cave Hill. there are many boys who just go to the Under Graduate Room and gamble all day while the government is paying the university for classes these children are NOT attending.

  4. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    The PDC was going to deal with another matter – the Prime Minister’s feeble fetid attempt to reject the notion that he undertook a massive tax grab via his 2008 Financial Statement and Budgetary Proposals and that that tax grab helped to contribute enormously to Barbados political economic depression.

    But so riled are we by some of the reported comments of one fool, Dr. Brian Francis, some Lecturer in the Department of Economics at the Cave Hill Campus of the University of the West Indies, that we have decided to set that aside, and deal quickly with a pile of intellectual garbage that Dr. Francis is foolishly juggling about with right before the eyes of many of the public.

    In his regular column, which is titled: As I See Things, in a local business paper, the following was attributed to him: “Once more, conflict between two leading figures in the BLP – Owen Arthur and Mia Mottley – has made its way into the public domain over the cancellation of a branch meeting in which Mr. Arthur was scheduled to speak. The party chose instead to hold a national gathering in St. Patrick’s.

    This latest “turmoil within the ranks of the BLP” – so described by some observers – is yet another shining example of organizational dynamics. While I do accept the emergence of conflict in any organization as an inevitable phenomenon, there are times when such occurences ought not to be publicised – for the good of the organization.

    The alleged leadership crisis within the BLP fits that criterion. Right now Barbados stands on the verge of an economic abyss. The high standard of living to which Barbadians have become accustomed IS IN JEOPARDY. Furthermore, our DEMOCRACY is under severe threat. The Government seems lost at sea in finding remedies to the major difficulties facing the country. Therefore, BARBADOS NEEDS NOW MORE THAN EVER AN EFFECTIVE OPPOSITION. OUR DEOMOCRACY IS BEST SERVED WHEN WE HAVE A STRONG GOVERNMENT AND A POWERFUL OPPOSITION.”

    It is clear from analysing much of that that Dr. Francis is NOT ONLY a political buffoon of the highest order, BUT he is ALSO a political clown posing in a very tattered intellectual jumpsuit, picking up and juggling many pieces of already disposed intellectual garbage for many others to see what brand of political clown he is.

    Anyway, let us deal with, and quickly dispose of, at least four pieces of intellectual garbage that he has so frantically juggled.

    1) Dr. Francis claims that Barbados is ON THE VERGE OF an economic abyss. In this regard he is absolutely wrong!! For, Barbados is NOT on the verge of any economic abyss, when it is patently clear that for a long time that it has been thrown into this state of so-called economic abyss by many people – including DLP and BLP leaders and principals since about 30 years ago. And made worse since the former Prime Minister Owen Arthur presided over the affairs of this country for almost 14 years.

    Dr. Francis must have been in some deep slumber or must have been day dreaming much during the times when Mr. Owen Arthur was helping to make Barbados worse off materially and financially, now to be saying such ignorance with such ill-directed passionate intonations. What nonsense!! And, it is even more clear now that Mr. David Thompson is helping to take the country deeper and deeper into this abyss and like his predecessor is failing seriously to tackle many deep-rooted material and financial problems of this country.

    2) Dr. Francis makes the very silly childish claim that our democracy is under threat. Again he is totally wrong too!! Instead of being the political clown he has become, Dr. Francis should have been paying greater attention to some serious local political studies views which clearly show that Barbados IS NOT and HAS NEVER BEEN A DEMOCRACY. NEVER!! In very strict political terms, what Barbados is is a political oligarchy – rule by a few over the many. Democracy means rule by the many. This is what is yet to be achieved in Barbados. What democracy what!! Any way how can some thing be under threat that has NEVER existed before?? Tell us how that is possible, any one?

    3) This university lecturer makes the outrageously false claim that Barbados needs now more than ever an effective Opposition. Now this particular claim shows that he is a real political buffoon of the highest but most disgusting order, and one that has been schooled in a lot of Euro-centric foolishness.

    Furthermore, Dr. Francis is like a political parrot that is parroting many non-sensical claims that are themselves best left for Westminsterism – about a country needing now more than ever an effective Opposition.

    How the hell could Barbados wish for an Opposition – construed to mean the BLP – that for almost 14 years straight – went on a deadly rampage, ransacking the Treasury and doing other things ill and sickening, and mainly to make sure that certain unncessarily foolish programs and motives were fulfilled, and that the image of so many other institutions of government in this country were substantially tarnished and their functions compromised in the process of doing these things.

    And the evidence of this is so clear – the GEMS Project; The Greenland Landfill Project – yet NOT a shred of garbage dumped down there by the SSA; EDUTECH; ABC Expansion Project; UDC Squandermania; The NHC Warrens Office Complex, which even now has more TAX VICTIMS OF this country in greater trouble – with the Al Barrack money claims; The Dodds Prisons; the Kensington Oval Redevelopment Project where so much money was spent yet it is still NOT finished; the creation of staggering government debt on top of huge borrowings; the creation of a massive state – stealing about 40 % of the incomes of the relevant Barbadians, Barbadian businesses and others annually, and at the same time destroying greater private sector growth; too many unnecessary loads of BLP consultants, Commissions/ Commissions of Enquiry; inappropriate decapitating of some of the Heads at the QEH some years ago; the brute firing of Mr. Winston Cox from the Central Bank; the destruction of the stalls of vendors in Cheapside in the wee hours in 2005; the obscene and vulgar increasing of parliamentarians’ and senior public servants in 2005, and there are so many more instances of gross and reckless mismanagement of the political and other affairs of this country by then BLP Government.

    Therefore, we in the PDC are at particular pains to ask what kind of jackass must Mr. Francis be and esp. when he is not being asked to face many of the consequences of such THEN monumental BLP incompetence – like how the average person has to do now with the so-called economy in severe trouble.

    Therefore, what kind of fat faced fool is he to suggest that Barbadians should ignore and look over these BLP tradegies and flagrances ON SOME TOTALLY IMMORAL UNETHICAL UNFOUNDED PRETEXT – that Barbados needs more than ever an effective Opposition? UH?? Did not some say some time ago that they want Arthur More Than Ever? And look what they and we got in return: more misery and poverty?

    So, rather than naively calling for an effective Opposition, Dr. Francis should have been calling for the dismissal of the BLP from this political landscape of Barbados for the many many fundamental wrongs it has done to thousands of people of this country over the years.

    4) And this Lecturer in Economics – who really should stick to math and statistics – and NOT try to make believe that he has studied much political science – makes another outlandish claim that Our democracy (again?) is best served when we have a strong government and powerful Opposition. That is the kind of idiocy that flows from the pen of a so-called intellectual and that could only have come from a person who has clear BLP leanings. He really has done the people of this country a disservice with this down tight silly claim. For, this claim is totally wrong and does NOT even apply to Barbados – an oligarchy. The facts of the matter are that in a virtual/model democracy, such a system of politics is not just best defined and premissed on such BUT is also best served by at least these ten (10) features:

    1)A relatively informed and strong citizenry – that knows much about its history, culture and heritage;

    2)a free, fair and vigilant press/media;

    4) limited, accountable and responsible government;

    5) citizens participating in the government and goverance of the country;

    6) Free, fair and legitimate elections of the main managers of the government by voters;

    7) Widespread acceptance and practice of the rule of law

    8)An independent and neutral judiciary/judicial system of government with citizens eecting their own judges;

    9) a significant degree of pluralism – mainly ideological, political and social; and,

    10) The Abolition of TAXATION and Interest Rates and the the Abolition of the practice of citizens agreeing to repay their own money that has been used for productive purposes.

    So, finally for now, a serious reading of those ten fundamentals will evince that Barbados is NOT a democracy and that our political system is NEVER best served by a strong government and a powerful opposition – what such might bring is the further marginalization, suppression and pauperization of the majority of people at the behest of the stinking DLP and BLP and some of their elite buddies. So, what stupid nonsense from Dr. Francis.

    Surely, the people of Barbados need now more than ever better thinkers and writers of columns and NOT political clowns parading as intellectuals!!!

    So, Down with the Damned DLP and the Blasted BLP!!!

    PDC

  5. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @BU,
    You say “BU believes there is merit to the positions of both gentlemen.” and say “Professor Howard has suggested that given the harsh economic conditions being experienced by government the UWI should slow the intake of students. The result of such an action would be to reduce government spend at the UWI, Cave Hill.” but the say “Principal Beckles has retorted with a strong and unexpected response which does not merit restating.” You seem to not see merit in Sir Hilary’s point, though you said you did. Interesting.

    Is not Prof. Howard’s argument also that the intake of children to secondary and primary schools due to be slowed too, if the recession is reason to slow spending on education? Or is his logic that university education is worth less at the margin than primary and/or secondary?

    Why single out UWI and not say more broadly all tertiary, so that the SJPP and BCC do not end up feeling or seeming privileged in being able to continue as is, with UWI students taking the strain.

    Interesting that his suggestion does not go to cutting some of the teaching staff and/or administrators.

  6. David Avatar
    David

    BU has plainly stated there is merit to both positions but we also have stressed as leader of the UWI, Cave Hill that Sir Hilary has a responsibility to manage his campus in a way which promotes a solution oriented environment. BU refused to restate the invective where one academic refers to the other as anti-intellectual. This kind of inflammatory rhetoric is not what is expected from our head of the University.

    Our blog focused on our disappointment of two leading academics duking it out in the national newspaper. Not good!

  7. The People's Democratic Congress Avatar
    The People’s Democratic Congress

    Down with the Damned DLP and the Blasted BLP!!!

    Below is the top half of a news story from Yahoo.com News, on the 17 th, February, 2010, which the PDC thinks is very interesting, and that shows why some of what we have been saying and why we have been saying what we have been saying about the DLP and BLP in Barbados, must seriously be done – that the majority of Barbadian voters must give these two old corrupt stupid traditional parties “the greatest shocks in their lives” – by voting them to hell out of the parliament of this country – within the next two elections – for, among many other things, NOT having the Barbadian people and public first and foremost in their minds, but for having themselves, many of their families, friends, businesses, and foreign interests first and foremost in their own minds, and thus unforgivably relegating the Barbadian people and public to very low rankings in their respective political registers.

    Furthermore, what is noteworthy about this particular news story is that some of the feelings and facts that the PDC has related to DLP and BLP misrule over the last 25 years or so, to some extent, can be seen as if they can be read into the alleged frustrations and anxieties of retiring Sen. Evan Bayh of the US Senate about the general failing performances of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party in the USA – where – although he has stopped short of asking voters to throw both those parties out of the Congress – he is reported to have said that “the American people needed to deliver a shock to Congress BY VOTING INCUMBENTS OUT EN MASSE AND REPLACING THEM WITH PEOPLE INTERESTED IN REFORMING THE PROCESS AND GOVERNING FOR THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE, RATHER THAN DEEP-POCKETED SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS.”

    Sen. Bayh stance to retire and NOT seek a third term in the Senate seems to be saying at least two major things:

    1) that President Obama’s many attempts at bi-partisanship politics and to rein in political lobbying – although well intentioned – have both been in vain or have failed – owing to an extreme partisan political culture, with its pock marked political finance campaign and reelection emphases;

    2) That he is sick and tired with outright partisan political behaviour on the part of the US Congress, behaviour which can only be helped reformed by the majority of American voters and by strong reformist national political leadership – which President Obama has so far failed to exhibit.

    So, as we leave you – the readers of this PDC post – with this bit of news, we want you also to just remember that for love of country, we must get the rid of the DLP and BLP in this country, being very mindful of the that as many patriotic politically conscious Barbadians as possible must NEVER NEVER persist with the terrible blunder that our immediate parents, uncles, aunts, friends, and acquaintences, did make in the 70s and 80s, which was to allow both the DLP and BLP to overstay their time in our political environment and for them to be ever so often conspiring with many deep pocketed special interest groups in Barbados against the best interests of the Barbadian people and public – and, now, look what horrific attacks we – the broad massres and middle classes – are often times getting from these bandits.

    “Disillusioned Bayh advocates electoral “shock” to broken system

    In an interview on MSNBC this morning, newly retiring Sen. Evan Bayh declared the American political system “dysfunctional,” riddled with “brain-dead partisanship” and permanent campaigning. Flatly denying any possibility that he’d seek the presidency or any other higher office, Bayh argued that the American people needed to deliver a “shock” to Congress by voting incumbents out en masse and replacing them with people interested in reforming the process and governing for the good of the people, rather than deep-pocketed special-interest groups.

    Bayh’s announcement stunned the American political world, as up until just last week he looked to be well on his way to an easy reelection for a third term in the Senate, and his senior staff was aggressively pursuing that goal.

    But Bayh had apparently become increasingly frustrated in the Senate. In this morning’s interview he noted that just two weeks ago, Republicans who had co-sponsored a bill with him to rein in the deficit turned around and voted against it for purely political reasons. He also stated repeatedly that members of his own party should be more willing to settle for a compromise rather than holding out for perfection.

    “Sometimes half a loaf is better than none,” Bayh insisted.

    It’s no secret that the Senate has struggled to take action this year. With the two major parties unusually far apart in their substantive proposals for the direction of the country, even finding half a loaf to agree on has been difficult. Though the Democrats have had a substantial majority in the Senate for the last year, Republicans have escalated their threats to use filibusters (by forcing a cloture vote, see the graph below) to force Democrats to come up with 60 votes to pass any major legislation. And after Scott Brown’s election to the Senate last month gave Republicans a 41st seat, health-care reform and other Democratic goals were stopped dead in their tracks.”

    Taken from Yahoo.Com News, Wednesday, 17 th January, 2010.

    PDC

  8. Avatar
    Anonymous

    both professors have a point.

    If we were to look at the society as it it were a private company, we might get an understanding of the problem.

    The company (society) knows that it needs to invest for long term growth (Beckles). However, it has a shortage of funds and cannot find lenders to borrow from in order to effect the investment. It must cut back on some areas of its operations if it wants to find money to invest or it must put off the investment until its financial position improves(Howard)

  9. JC Avatar
    JC

    N.B. I am not a fan of Hilary Beckles, I think he is a sell out!!!!!!! However, I guess when you are toooo real you remain poor, Hilary couldn’t have that could he?

    Anyhow, onto the discussion. Recently, I had the honor of writing a eulogy for two persons whom I sincerely loved, AND I must say that I am not going to be a PORAKY UWI grad. This is because of what I was thought by persons such as the eccentric Mr. Soyer and Dr. Allsopp amongst others.

    When I first entered UWI I didn’t no SHIT! However, I am now a final year student and believe me I have learnt to write. Additionally, I must mention that although I am an unwed mother of 2, and at times due to financial straints feel as if I would give up on my aspirations. I have a burning desire to achieve ….. For that reason, I say thank you Hilary for giving me a chance to learn and ACHIEVE!!!!

    Therefore, I cannot and will not agree to any closing down, lessening of student intake or laying off of staff members, some who are now my closest friends, who have mortgages, bills and so on.

    ‘You can find many diamonds within that dirt’ that Hilary has decide to dig up!!!!!!

    Just my opinion…….

  10. Avatar
    Anonymous

    So JC, you say “Therefore, I cannot and will not agree to any closing down, lessening of student intake or laying off of staff members, some who are now my closest friends, who have mortgages, bills and so on.” So if you in want none of the above to be cut back on as stated by you what are your solution(s) to the current economic problem that the University are about to face. YOU can not have it all some thing has to give.

  11. JC Avatar
    JC

    Anon, you have realised that I have said that you never know what diamond might come from the rough …….. During/After a recession someone from that working class might have solutions to better deal with the situation we have found ourselves in …..you never know.

    FURTHERMORE……. Are you telling me that every thing should go at a standstill? We should stop eat drink and breathe and yeah dont work anymore either. Why not invest in your people ……

    Don’t think that I don’t get Dr. Howard’s point however my above-comment still stands.

  12. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Bush Tea got his degree, so to hell with others. Howard the economist hides behind the current economic conditions to advance his long held view on UWI under Prof Hillary. I have not met an economist that I can trust. However I like the tone of the Jamaican LIB’s contribution to this thread.

  13. Hopi Avatar
    Hopi

    @JC…….Glad to know that you are doing your thing deary, but do they teach you to find think outside the ‘Cave’ and find solutions or do they continually push you along to get a degree, feel good about yourself because of that, and then get a job to keep oiling the machine?

  14. Brutus Avatar
    Brutus

    @ Dennis Jones,

    “Is not Prof. Howard’s argument also that the intake of children to secondary and primary schools due to be slowed too, if the recession is reason to slow spending on education? Or is his logic that university education is worth less at the margin than primary and/or secondary?”

    Is this really a serious question? If a government decides to fully fund primary and secondary education for all, does it logically follow that the government should fully fund tertiary education for all?

    “Why single out UWI and not say more broadly all tertiary, so that the SJPP and BCC do not end up feeling or seeming privileged in being able to continue as is, with UWI students taking the strain.”

    Perhaps the point is that the relative costs of a UWI education vs the benefits to the nation are much higher than for other government funded tertiary education.

    “Interesting that his suggestion does not go to cutting some of the teaching staff and/or administrators.”

    His suggestion does not exclude this, does it?

  15. JC Avatar
    JC

    @ Hopi

    Fair enuff statement ……. and I must agree with you to some extent …….

    It is like hmmmmmmm all these people who are NO ENTREPRENEURS telling us the students to be …… (Irony).

    I want to be a teacher as I said, so I know that I will be working for someone as well. However, I hope that I can teach persons to make their dreams a reality and some persons’ dreams are to own their own business so ya never know ……….

    But you have a point a very salient point too ….

    This is the first time that I have ever read AND AGREED with LIB about anything ……….!!

  16. JC Avatar
    JC

    I like this blog David, some very good arguments!!!!!

  17. Brutus Avatar
    Brutus

    My problem with the response by Sir Hilary is as Professor Howard said, the response was “highly abusive, irrelevant and misleading”.

    The response was also highly emotional and made sweeping generalizations rather than trying to advance any proof for the position Sir Hilary took. It was really unbecoming of someone in his position.

    What is wrong with saying that we should reconsider the increasing intake of students, and where is the specific evidence of the benefit of this to society? Is the argument won by whoever shouts loudest and is most insulting?

    I do not think that Professor Howard said that we should stop admitting new students period, but Sir Hilary responded as if that was the suggestion.

    Why is this such a sacred cow that can not be challenged? How much expenditure on university education is too much for us to afford, or is it being argued that there is no limit to how much we should spend?

    What fraction of school leavers benefit from this large expenditure, and how much is being spent on the education or betterment of those who choose or are not able to pursue a university degree?

  18. David Avatar
    David

    The good thing about the debate is the national discussion which it has provoked.

    @JC

    Tell Alf Padmore to stay away from the airwaves, this is a serious issue and should be devoid of the politics.

  19. Christopher Halsall Avatar
    Christopher Halsall

    @Brutus… “Why is this such a sacred cow that can not be challenged? How much expenditure on university education is too much for us to afford, or is it being argued that there is no limit to how much we should spend?

    I think you’ve hit the nail firmly on the head.

    The question should be: what “upside” does all this free education contribute to those paying for it? And at what cost?

    Does it produce free (critically) thinking individuals who can compete in a globally competitive playing field?

    A separate question: do we have empirical data supporting either position?

    To speak from my personal experience — some of my most useless employees and co-workers had MDs and PhDs.

    Some of my most valuable employees and co-workers barely got out of secondary school. (Please count me in this set.)

    Why? Because “getting the paper” doesn’t always mean the same thing as “being able to do”.

    For what that is worth.

  20. MoR Avatar
    MoR

    education is a waste to most of those UWI students. they go there for 3 to 4 years (sometimes longer) and come out just as ignorant and inarticulate as when they first got there. and what do they do there? they drink, smoke, gamble…carry on! ingrates….

  21. JC Avatar
    JC

    We talk regularly I will carry the message.

  22. Avatar
    Anonymous

    It is well known that the economic (societal)returns to a good secondary education are greater than for a university level education.

    The university education provides the the graduate with an opportunity to increase his own personal returns but the societal returns are much less.

    If there are to be cutbacks they should occur more at the university level than at the secondary level.

  23. JC Avatar
    JC

    MoR // February 17, 2010 at 1:56 PM

    Not only UWI students/grads do these things People from all walks of life do these things what is your point??????

    Yes we know we have some asses who feel as they got the last degree but Lord man all o we aint the same!!!!!!!

    I think that those who have degrees need to come out of their shells and say as well as do a lot more for society on the whole!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  24. MoR Avatar
    MoR

    When you invite everyone, you get everyone…

  25. Avatar
    Anonymous

    “Tell Alf Padmore to stay away from the airwaves”

    Solid advice. Can’t believe one person can say so much yet say so little. He’s almost as bad as Ms Mottley in this regard. Geez! To be fair tho, I suspect his heart is in the right place, but the verbosity. Phew!

  26. The Scout Avatar
    The Scout

    When other people eat, drink, smoke and gamble most of them are not doing it at the expense of the barbados taxpayers. Too much money is being seeped through the system by some students who have been at UWI for over 12 years and still without a degree, most of the time is spent in the Students’Guild.

  27. Sylvan Greenidge Avatar
    Sylvan Greenidge

    I agree whole heartedly with the position taken by Professor Beckles and for a number of reasons.

    1. The Rt. Excellent Sir Grantley Adams and the Rt. Excellent Errol Barrow fought long and hard for the right to education for our children and it is as a direct result of education that our nation is today the Mecca of this region. Our people have gone far and wide in this world and have equaled the best any way. Nothing we do now should retard this progress especially at a time when it is most needed. Exporting our skills and talent is one of the sure ways we can lift ourselves out of economic deprivation.

    2. It is my firm view that only children of the lowest class of Barbadians will be affected by this regressive plan. If Professor Howard’s plan is introduced, my fear is that we would regress to the days when education was granted based on who you knew and what your standing was in the community and I say a loud NO to the return of those dark days. The son or daughter of a Sanitation Service Authority worker has the right to university education as the son or daughter of a lawyer or doctor.

    3. I am always amazed at the ease with which persons who built careers and successful businesses in this country on the free education they got from the university are always ready to shut the door behind them. It is like the proverbial cow that gave the pail of milk and then kicked it down.

    4. That Professor is prepared to drag the UWI’s name through the mud as though there is no other way to address the economic problem of the UWI finances speaks volumes. What about the suggestion of doing a means test upon application of the UWI and asking those children whose parents can clearly pay for their children’s education be asked to carry part if not all of the cost? Why didn’t Professor Howard suggest that or was he concerned with what his fellow social class mates would think of him?

    5. We should always remain vigilant that we do not destroy the pillars upon our which our good and orderly society is built for short term goals. Our attention at this time really should be on controlling and redirecting the recklessness of a Government driven only by a political plan to win the next election.

    How can you be serious about curbing a fiscal crisis in a country where at this time a Government has spent over $3 million out of a budget of $6 million on Constituency Councils and not a single piece of evidence that a Barbadian man or woman has received any meaningful assistance and where in excess of $6mill has been spent on Summer Camps – a programme that NGO bodies and volunteers workers did for free for many years.

    This Government has gone through this region guaranteeing Clico’s debts to the tune of untold millions while cutting the social services of our people. This Government must be told hat it has to abandon the frequency of the bashment parties they have been having. The cost of these bashment parties have now run into millions of dollars with political expediency as their only purpose. This Government pays a high cost for consultancy services. For example Why are we paying Hartley Henry equivalent of a Minister’s salary at a time when public servants are being told to hold strain. What about the millions being spent by the BTA on a silly tournament in Trinidad and Tobago and the millions on the African and British Princes.

    I warn fellow Barbadians not to cut our noses to spoil our features

  28. MoR Avatar
    MoR

    “The Rt. Excellent Sir Grantley Adams and the Rt. Excellent Errol Barrow fought long and hard for the right to education for our children and it is as a direct result of education that our nation is today the Mecca of this region”

    It is sad to see grown adults with – to borrow Singham’s terminology – a ‘hero and the crowd’ mentality.

    “It is my firm view that only children of the lowest class of Barbadians will be affected by this regressive plan”

    What happened to the matriculation requirements?

    “That Professor is prepared to drag the UWI’s name through the mud…”

    How so? By addressing the problem of ‘quality’?

    Here’s a suggestion. Put a cap on the amount of years students can be enrolled at the university at the expense of the taxpayer – say four years. After this, the student will be responsible for a reasonable percentage (?) of costs.

    How about this as well? From henceforth, students should sign a contract with the government stating that they will sponsor the university at least $1200 (?) per year for a period of 5 (?) years upon completion of their studies to commence one year after completion of studies.

  29. Brutus Avatar
    Brutus

    @Sylvan Greenidge,

    You have written the same nonsense that Sir Hilary spouted, taking statements made by the professor and extrapolating them to illogical ends to prove your point and play on the fears of those who are not thinking critically.

    Again I ask, is any level of expenditure on UWI education justified or is there a limit? What are the concrete benefits and do they justify the costs? Is every Barbadian citizen entitled to free university education – if so, why not open the doors to all who apply? What of the question of quality raised by Professor Howard – are we concerned at all about the quality of our university graduates? How is this being assessed?

  30. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @ Brutus // February 17, 2010 at 12:42 PM

    @ Dennis Jones,

    “Is not Prof. Howard’s argument also that the intake of children to secondary and primary schools due to be slowed too, if the recession is reason to slow spending on education? Or is his logic that university education is worth less at the margin than primary and/or secondary?”

    Is this really a serious question? If a government decides to fully fund primary and secondary education for all, does it logically follow that the government should fully fund tertiary education for all? [Barbadian governments since independence have followed the line that there should be free education at all levels. That is not a policy set in stone, but remains the policy. If one wants to revist the policy it should be for reasons that make a set of sound arguments for the future development of the country, in the same way that the current policy is underpinned by a view of what is needed to help a (small) country develop. The current financial situation may be hard but may not be permanent and rectifying it can be done by many means. It is odd that an economist would choose to focus on one possible means of saving costs to the (apparent) exclusion of others. If Prof. Howard has done some sort of cost-benefit analysis of his proposal then let’s all share that. We can all pick at a piece of the ‘cloth’ and say this is the hole to fix. The flow of students is a function of their success in the primary and secondary system, so to close the door at tertiary level for what seems an arbitrary reason does not make much sense. If one wants to be cynical one can say that how this will be done will be to ensure that ‘failure’ rates increase at secondary level so that (conveniently) the supply of eligible university students can fall nicely. If, however, the system is turning out eligible student who cannot take advantage of Cave Hill it would be interesting to see what happens to applications to Mona and St Augustine, and of course overseas.]

    “Why single out UWI and not say more broadly all tertiary, so that the SJPP and BCC do not end up feeling or seeming privileged in being able to continue as is, with UWI students taking the strain.”

    Perhaps the point is that the relative costs of a UWI education vs the benefits to the nation are much higher than for other government funded tertiary education. [That may be the case, but as I said, if that cost-benefit analysis has been done–either by Prof. Howard or the Min. of Education– then let’s all benefit from seeing and discussing it. It is the kind of first step needed before one concludes what should be done.]

    “Interesting that his suggestion does not go to cutting some of the teaching staff and/or administrators.”

    His suggestion does not exclude this, does it? [True, but his subsequent utterances need to give them fair weight. Of the costs that bear on UWI, we ought to see and think about each, objectively.]

    More broadly, it is an interesting argument to think about saving on an ‘business’ by cutting back on one of its key inputs. Argued in a certain way, it could lead to concluding that the best solution is to close the institution. Options for raising revenue need to be aired, in the same way as options such as means testing, or other ways of sharing the burden of educating students.

  31. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    Whether Sir Hilary and Prof. Howard are having a public debate about the quality of UWI education will become clearer soon. But the matter of quality begs many questions about the educators, too, not least whether they have loosened their standards to facilitate the passage of students. That’s one ethical thorn to hold. The other is whether the educators have been as good as needed to deliver high quality graduates. That is an open question, not a slight on any one of the staff. The other issue is whether the secondary system has loosened to make more students eligible for university, but even so, admission to UWI is not mandatory, so who has been capitulating to let standards slip, if indeed the have?

  32. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    s/b ‘The other issue is whether the secondary system has loosened to make more students eligible for university. But even so, admission to UWI is not mandatory. So who has been capitulating to let standards slip, if indeed they have?’

  33. zion1971 Avatar
    zion1971

    Every English speaking Caricom countries subsidised the education of their students at U.W.I However, Trinidad and Barbados has up the ante on educational priority by granting free education from the undergraduate level right up to the graduate level.The question in this time of economic slow down – is this model sustainable and at what cost, knowing that the region loose 80% of their U.W.I graduate to migration. I am not a supporter for the free for all education at the post-secondary level . Those who can afford let them pay and those who cant provide grant, student aid, student loan etc. Let these students realised and take some of the responsibility for their education. Because as with all free public ,good moral hazard and the tragedy of the commons are consequences. So you have a deterioration in the quality of matriculation and on top of that is the “career student” who are taking the taxpayer for a free ride because he or she bears none of the cost.

  34. Brutus Avatar
    Brutus

    @Dennis Jones,

    Do you realize that Professor Howard’s comment was one sentence in an article that dealt with measures to deal with the current fiscal crisis? All he was quoted as saying is this:

    “He also suggested that the UWI (Cave Hill) needed to reduce the rate of increase of new students to relieve pressure on Government’s budget. ”

    All this says is reduce the rate of increase. You and others seem to have extrapolated a lot more than what was said.

    Have you assumed that entry to university is solely a function of performance in secondary school, or do you know this for a fact? Are you suggesting that increasing UWI enrolment over the past few years (see http://www.cavehill.uwi.edu/resources/documents/reports/cavehill_report_2007.pdf)
    reflects better performance as opposed to a lowering of entry requirements?

  35. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Brutus,

    Prof. Howard has been quoted as saying quite a bit more than that, as you will see from the link in the article. It includes “”The principal is not a trained economist, and judging from his toxic letter, he seems not to understand the gravity and implications of a fiscal crisis.”” So, his argument is not just about UWI and its finances. My argument is not limited to that either.

    Giving the good professor the benefit of the doubt (and he can clarify the situation as he wishes, and not be bound by the reporting of newspapers), my point is that he has focused on one component, and that does not really make a lot of sense especially in the terms he wants to take the argument, of dealing with the fiscal deficit.

    Enrollment reflects many factors, which is why it is strange to focus on a solution that is about slowing it down.

  36. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    Prof. Howard’s original remarks that were reported in the Nation last week, which I read, were more than the one sentence cited by Brutus. Though I’m now off island and reading what is posted online since last Sunday (not the whole of the printed papers, unfortunately), I saw from Barbados Today that the discussion is about a lot more than just UWI and its finances (see http://www.barbadostoday.bb/launch.aspx?referral=other&refresh=zA1407LjpY19&PBID=87ad6005-1972-4d63-92b0-8927eda53c7a&skip=). It is clear that Prof. Howard is arguing several issues: UWI quality vs quantity and national fiscal management. To that extent, he has gone for a very partial solution to a complex problem. He’s at liberty to make his position absolutely clear. Till he does, we take issue with what he is reported to have said.

  37. Brutus Avatar
    Brutus

    @Dennis Jones,

    Its ok to admit that you don’t really know the reason(s) for increased enrolment at UWI Barbados. I don’t know the reasons either but I am very concerned that the main reason has to do with Sir Hilary’s “one university graduate per household” strategy and a lowering of admission and graduation standards to achieve this.

    Perhaps that may help you to understand why Professor Howard would single this out.

  38. Brutus Avatar
    Brutus

    UWI news release from Nov 2009

    ‘One Graduate’ Strategy a Worthy Nation Building Objective

    http://www.cavehill.uwi.edu/news/releases/release.asp?id=183

  39. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Very Good points by the Jamaican LIB. Brutus the one Graduate strategy is government policy is is not? who is paying for it?

  40. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    Adrian Hinds // February 17, 2010 at 12:08 PM

    Bush Tea got his degree, so to hell with others.
    *************************************
    Mr Hinds….. you like you got clothes hang out pun the line and looking for rain yuh!

    How do you deduce the above from an expressed concern for quality and efficiency? Are you seriously suggesting ‘free-for-all money’ from the treasury for anyone who opts to go to university?

    No one here objects to spending money on high quality graduate prospects who have the potential to benefit themselves and society with the experience, but a free for all ego building gimmick at a time of fiscal stress..??

    …by the way, above – you should have said that ‘Bush tea got his degrees, so… “etc ha ha ha

  41. David Avatar
    David

    If we are having a conversation about tertiary level education with a focus on the UWI, Cave Hil we should place the lecturers/professors under the microscope as well. If we do some interesting things may shake out.

  42. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    Brutus // February 17, 2010 at 8:47 PM

    @Dennis Jones,

    “Its ok to admit that you don’t really know the reason(s) for increased enrolment at UWI Barbados. I don’t know the reasons either but I am very concerned that the main reason has to do with Sir Hilary’s “one university graduate per household” strategy and a lowering of admission and graduation standards to achieve this.

    Perhaps that may help you to understand why Professor Howard would single this out.” [I said above that “Enrollment reflects many factors”, some demographic, some administrative, some quality, some other things. I cannot be more specific without looking more into the admissions process. So, part of my concern with the focus of Prof. Howard is in slowing the increase without analysing why it has occurred.]

    One the one graduate policy, I take that to be government policy, not Sir Hilary’s personal or UWI policy, as it was promoted by the PM in a speech in 2008, see http://www.dlpbarbados.org/cms/images/stories/speechs%20and%20pubs/combermere_school_address.pdf%5D

  43. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    It’s also noteworthy that Cave Hill has grown from 4 000 to 8 000 students, and enrolment at St Augustine has also doubled from 8 000 to 16 000. That equivalent percentage increase tells a story, as Mona’s ascendency has been lost. These other faculties have widened their offering of courses.

    What is also needed to fully understand the dynamics of enrollment change is the extent to which non-nationals are attending. Any talk of reducing student numbers at Cave Hill is not necessarily something that will impinge on Bajan students alone.

  44. Brutus Avatar
    Brutus

    @Dennis Jones,

    The one graduate per household strategy could be both government policy and official UWI policy. However note that “graduate” does not necessary mean “UWI graduate” and “tertiary” does not necessarily mean UWI.

  45. Avatar
    Anonymous

    The questions must be: What areas of investment bring the greatest social returns? Are we getting great social returns from tertiary level education? What aspects of tertiary level education,if any, should we spend our money on?

  46. Johnny Postle Avatar
    Johnny Postle

    Now tell me why the heck this squabble between two academia should not be made public for public scrutiny?

    Nothing wrong with them battling out their differences on the media. We, I for one, want to know what are the issues facing UWI instead of rumour mongering about them. At least this provides for a bit of ‘transparency.’

    We all know that the goodly principal, Hilary Beckles, is a transformation artist and one who has done an incredible job at UWI (with regards to infrastructure development and a graduate for every home). Now rather those graduates are of substance or not, I truly would pray to tell. But my little commonsense tell me if the increase numbers at UWI is contributory to quality issues, than the quality and level of the standards at UWI cannot be of a high quality either (or have they been flexed or are no more…hmmm not sure)if an accusation of quality has been raised . Who therefore should I cast the blame on?

    Surely the marks of exams would reflect the intellectual capacity of the would be graduate and as such evoke the regulatory controls of scrutiny (by an examing board…I think) concerning that ‘flopping’ student. And if that is the case, does not such a student be bought before a review board (I think) for questioning with regard to the continuation of their university duration.

    I totally am in agreement for such exchanges to be made public, regardless of their frivolity or folly. The simplest reason being, we get a better understanding of what is happening and why it is happening.

    The matter raise on this occasion is serious enough for public awareness.

  47. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Bush tea the article you wrote on this matter back 2007 tells a lot about your views. Most of the points you touched on for concern can be address without the drastic approach that has been suggested.

    Yet you agree with howard, who wants to deny poor Barbadians a degree on economic grounds. If your reason and that of Horward’s truly is based on quality alone, surely there are best practices that can be use to ensure that increase quantity does not lead to less quality. It can be done, so I have to wonder why you, Howard, and a number of elitish bajans want to close down, reduce, cut back etc, the enrolement numbers at UWI cavehill.

    I have to wonder about people who must tell others that they have a degree. or two lol!

    BTW I gathered from your 2007 article that you were awarded your degreeS under a system that has little relevance to today’s enviornment. Should not your degrees be considered irrelevent as well? Uh just asking. lol!

    WUh losss people bragging rights are being demished and they are none to please. lol!

    You were asked for possible solutions to the problem, and your response was you don’t get paid to do such. Did you pay for all of your degrees?

    MOR gave suggestions without being asked and it did not cost him anything to so do

    MOR said suggested…..

    “That Professor is prepared to drag the UWI’s name through the mud…”

    How so? By addressing the problem of ‘quality’?

    Here’s a suggestion. Put a cap on the amount of years students can be enrolled at the university at the expense of the taxpayer – say four years. After this, the student will be responsible for a reasonable percentage (?) of costs.

    How about this as well? From henceforth, students should sign a contract with the government stating that they will sponsor the university at least $1200 (?) per year for a period of 5 (?) years upon completion of their studies to commence one year after completion of studies.

  48. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Brutus // February 18, 2010 at 8:22 AM

    @Dennis Jones,

    The one graduate per household strategy could be both government policy and official UWI policy. However note that “graduate” does not necessary mean “UWI graduate” and “tertiary” does not necessarily mean UWI.
    ————————————————–
    Man stop attempting to split hairs. The one graduate per household has been a GoB initiative since the Owen Arthur years.

    I know a number of Bajans over in away that lamented to the fact that Barbados had one University, which had to cater to all the caribbean, thereby greatly reducing their ability to gain entry.

    I know of one person who wrote about this in a public university entry required essay.

    Anon said…. It is well known that the economic (societal)returns to a good secondary education are greater than for a university level education.
    ————————————————-

    This is the kind of thinking that kept many Barbadians away from a college level education. In todays globalize world where a highschool/secondary education is not enough, and were this talk about a 4 year degree becoming the new benchmark for employees, why would Howard want to deny more Barbadians the chance to compete globally?

  49. Christopher Halsall Avatar
    Christopher Halsall

    @Adrian Hinds: “In todays globalize world where a highschool/secondary education is not enough, and were this talk about a 4 year degree becoming the new benchmark for employees…

    If I may speak to this a little bit…

    Please let me very clear that I am *not* arguing that education is bad. Quite to the contrary. My argument is that “formal” education does not always provide the skills most needed.

    Now, while it is true that many employers filter based on “the paper”, not all do.

    Further, I would argue that entrepreneurs, who work for themselves and generate wealth for themselves and others, don’t need to provide “paper” to potential employers.

    If I may provide an example from personal experience…

    I found myself in Barbados when I was retained to be the CTO of a start-up wireless company — providing the first competitive “last-mile” and “WAN” services in a newly “liberalized” marketplace.

    One of the first things we did was to retain local supporting ICT talent.

    My interviewing technique is a little unusual, but not unheard of: I want to see if the candidate can *think*.

    In this particular case, I placed each candidate in front of a Linux machine and network switch. Except, I slightly unplugged the network cable from the Linux machine in the switch.

    I then provided each candidate with “root” log-in credentials, asked them to log in, and confirm that they had access to the Internet. (There were several other exercises to perform, but this information is enough to illuminate my points.)

    1. The individual with the least “paper” was the only one (out of ten) to say “Hey, is the cable plugged in?”.

    2. The individual with the most “paper” couldn’t even log into the machine (even though we’d advertised for “Unix Skills”).

    My point?

    “Paper” doesn’t *always* mean “skill”. And more and more employers are beginning to realize this.

    Just for the record: I immediately hired the first individual based on the above, and because he argued with me during the interview (it was about which was a better operating system — Linux or BSD).

    The second individual called me after being rejected, whining about how he should have been hired because he “had his degree”.

    The first individual was an *amazing* resource. I am *very* proud of what he did for us, and what he’s gone on to do.

    For what that is worth.

  50. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Yes, it is well known by people who have done such calculations that the returns to primary and secondary education are much higher than for tertiary education. This is particularly true for developed countries with high enrollment levels. We are not developed as yet but we moving in that direction.

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