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Submitted by Looking Glass

dark_futureSo Candles Under The Bed attracted only two comments. I am almost disappointed.

Where have the phoenix and associates gone? Slavery, race and immigration induce a multitude of comments but the national debt remains sacrosanct, entombed in a conspiracy of silence. Is reality a luxury we cannot afford?

Mr. Blackett opines that had the forensic investigation suggested had been done within the โ€œhoneymoon period of the first 100 days in office along with the implementation of FOI and ITAL legislative policyโ€ฆhe would have healed a major rift in local politicsโ€ฆโ€ Legislation and policy cannot solve intractable problems, especially those of the human mind. Are you blaming the PM for failure to expose the sins of the phoenix? Had he done so you would be singing a different song. Why was there no call for transparency etc before 2006-7? Be careful what you wish for. Someone in London opined that โ€œLylli lagrani must be shaking.โ€ฆ.โ€

Can you name an incumbent Prime Minister or President who, having inherited an empty trough and humongous debt, fulfilled pre-election promises in the first 100 or 200 days? Not even President Obama with all available resources was able to do it.

Though politically and otherwise unencumbered (the word should ring a certain bell), I have no problem with oneโ€™s political leaning. In fact I expect the opposition to โ€˜censureโ€™ the government and be the โ€˜watchdog.โ€™ But feeding the public spurious information is detrimental to the country perched on the edge of the socio-economic cliff. The use of convenient diagnoses and half truths in defense of the phoenix beclouds the problem and is self-defeating to party and country. The infinity of half truths is bigger than the infinity of truth. Fallacious diagnoses beget fallacious remedies. Doubt me ask the economist.

As to the rift in local politics are you talking about the BLP? No Prime Minister can heal the rift between the local parties. Political democracy demands conflict and rift between competing parties. Politics is a process in which two or more parties (and individuals) enter into โ€˜conflictโ€™ (competition if you prefer) with each other to gain power and to realise the policies they favour, which may or may not be in the best interest of the country.

You (unintentionally I believe) admitted the PM inherited a โ€œbloated government bureaucracy,โ€ but cried shame when the PM sought to terminate some high salary irrelevant positions. The phoenix had already taken and โ€˜distributedโ€™ much of the โ€œfat from the HOG.โ€ Some big homes and cars will change hands and bank accounts frozen or emptied (foreign banks are no longer safe havens), but most of the fat will not be recovered. Streamlining government comes at a price. Removing the rest will have a negative impact.

Yes the โ€œmediocreโ€ PM has no choice but to comply with IMF recommendations. He inherited and empty trough and was left to manipulate turbulent waters with a spaghetti paddle. It would be folly to expect him to water the garden from behind the black ball (snooker) with an empty bucket. The good Lord needed barley loaves and fishes to feed the 5000.

Mr. Blackett echoed some interesting thoughts on banking that address some of the basic issues. I am not sure if our government/central bank can dictate the interest rate and other charges a private bank should charge the public. Perhaps it should apply to banks taken over or stimulated by the government. Banks are in business to make money for their investors not to provide jobs or support the โ€œpublic good.โ€ First responsibility is to the investor not the country. Much of the problem would have been avoided had the National Bank not been sold. The lowering of interest rates and other charges would have forced the other banks to follow suit, enlarged client base and enhance profitability. Instead at least one other bank was allowed to enter the market.

Am I to understand you have the right to borrow to facilitate a lascivious sedentary life- style and to decide the price you will pay? Borrowed time comes with a price. If we were to live within our means and reduce dependence on loans and credit the banks would be forced to lower interest rates and other charges.

Elsewhere it was said that the last regime narrowed debt to 6% of GDP in 2006-2007. If that were the case sustainability would not have been a problem. The IMF (2006) would not have projected debt at 75% of GDP by 2011, the 2008 report would not have noted the โ€œ75% likelihood the debt ratio will exceed current levels,โ€ and the 2009 recommendations would have been quite different. Substantial ongoing GDP decline and borrowing mega billions would be required in order to increase the debt ratio from 6% to 75% in four years. As was noted (Indebtedness: No End In Sight) โ€œthere is no way the current debt (which will increase) can be retired in say twenty yearsโ€ฆWe may be looking at a large black mass sitting on the edge of serfdom.โ€

Devaluation occurs in many ways. Rising consumer prices is a form of devaluation, especially for those on fixed income. More buys less. The Geneva based UN conference on Trade and Development concluded that the current system of currencies and capital is not working and proposed a complete overhaul of the monetary system. Under consideration is (I believe a single world currency) an organization to create and manage real exchange rates between countries and to adjust to inflation differentials and development levels. Whatever the outcome it is unlikely we can or will escape currency and other forms of devaluation

The maiden voyage of the worldโ€™s largest cruise liner, the 6,296 capacity Oasis of the Seas and its six captains is scheduled for December. Amenities this โ€œneighbourhood and destination better than most islands,โ€ include a park with 2,000 bushes and trees, Central Park, Boardwalk, Royal Promenade, Pool and Sports Zone, Fitness Centre, Entertainment Place and Youth Centre. Rates start at less that $800.00 for a seven night cruise. Are we included in the itinerary? Check with Royal Caribbean.

The Bank of England warned against thrift. In the UK where consumer spending is 2/3 of total spending โ€œany attempt to reduce consumption is likely to pull down on output and hence household incomeโ€ฆ making it harder for households to increase their savings.โ€ (Telegraph 21/09/09) Given tightening credit conditions one wonders how much saving can occur in a country with increasingly high levels of unemployment, meager export /revenue generating possibility, and dependant on fickle tourism where the vast majority of total consumer spending is on imports. The future doesnโ€™t look bright


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63 responses to “Walking On Thin Air”


  1. @ Looking Glass

    You should write a blog to disseminate a message and NOT to generate comments.

    Thought provoking blog!


  2. The people’s wealth is equity
    the beating stick is their debt

    Companies are screwing individuals,
    families and communities

    behind the scenes there is a land grab
    going on with creditors repossessing
    properties and assets for peanuts

  3. Random Name Generator Avatar
    Random Name Generator

    I suspect it is because everyone feels qualified to comment on issues of race, immigration etcetera, but Economics requires a bit more than a lay persons (like myself) understanding of the issues to comment.

    I will read and consider, but little more.


  4. Just remember ..the bankers created this problem to create a one world currency,bank, government and leader,soon Marion Williams and David Thompson will be out of jobs because by following the IMF blindly and selling out bajans the scumbags dream will come true and we will all be slaves again sooner than you all think.


  5. Maybe we are not so educated after all. It could explain why the thousands leave it to a few to advocate on their behalf. It could explain why we have never felt inclined to hold our politicians and public officials accountable.

    It explains a lot. We don’t understand, we don’t try to understand.

  6. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @freewilly: “the bankers created this problem to create a one world currency,bank, government and leader,”. Bankers did not create greed or a desire to live beyond one’s means–that is the essence of ‘deficit’, whoever incurs it. I would agree that traditonal banking facilitates those things. Revolving credit schemes, as are common in many countries, rely on people borrowing and paying back, or the scheme and society fails. Ask if most borrowers understand that principle.

    You talk about “following the IMF blindly and selling out bajans”. Is that really the case? If you start every story from ‘yesterday’ of course you miss the real problem. Take a step back a decade or so and see the real origins of some of the problems. If anyone is ‘selling out’ anyone then it was done with public support because voters kept voting in the sellers. No government has ever been imposed on Barbados from outside.

    BTW, Marion has a new job…


  7. @LOOKING GLASS*

    Thank you SIR* for condescending to men of lower estate…

    I appreciate you analysis but to quote DAVID* – the purpose must be the dissemination of information and not a harbinger for rank and file discussion (when it doesn’t happen)…

    I can assure you that the “stats” on BU* must be ‘off the hook’ and I believe that there are folks in and outside of BIM who monitor this BLOG* with some scrutiny…

    Before I forget, “CONGRATULATIONS” again as per DAVID’s comments as to a thought provoking piece of literary indignation which I am sure will raise some eyebrows, upset some good folks and at the same time garner some rancor in some quarters of the blogsophere…

    But with all due respect LG* (no pun intended or reference to the electronics manufacturer), I believe as I am sure most would appreciate that our beloved PM did inherit a colossal MESS* and “YES”, ITAL & FOI should have been a clarion call since the days of TOM ADAMS* (if we are going to keep things real).

    For the record, let me make it abundantly clear that I maybe amongst a chorus of folks who are the government’s worst critics – but I am also amongst the line-up of its best “cheerleaders (minus the grass-skirt and the pom-poms)…

    Mr. Thompson (I consider) a friend, someone for whom I have had clearly articulated my feeling concerning a range of ideas and strategies. To be FRANK* – I have a Microsoft Word document filled with ideas for the government that I am sure (and I am willing to place a bet even though I am NOT* a gambling man) that I have formulated in my factory – IDEAS* which would help to lift this so-called “PHOENIX” from the ashes of obscurity and deep despair and all that is needed from the powers that be – is an email…

    The PM knows my contact details (I haven’t changed address).

    Final thought – Chris Halsall* asked me a few days ago when am I coming back home to BIM* – my response was GOD* knows (end of quote), however, an email on Friday last week from someone in Barbados made it clear that after discussions with someone else for whom I am affiliated that my presence is required…

    Like a good soldier, a call to duty is an answerable call. The servant is never greater than his master ( taken within context) but like all good soldiers, the price must be worth paying…

    George Osbourne (TORY* Shadow Chancellor) said last week at their conference in Manchester – “We are all in this together”, speaking of the British people and the insurmountable task facing us in regards to public spending, spending cuts, rising fiscal deficits and a whole range of challenges hitting this great nation…

    Do you NOT* think the same applies to us as Barbadians?

    We are all in this together, BRUV*…

    Make no mistake about it…


  8. I have much respect for those who are bright, (gifted) in the arena of economics, and all of its related issues, and are able to analyse it, though from an entirely (secular) perspective!

    We all know that every thing in our natural world, i.e., buildings, ships, cars, trucks, etc, etc., has as *ITS* foundational strength, an *UNDERGIRD* to, ‘make secure underneath’ ‘strengthen’ *SUPPORT* without which, whatever that structure maybe, it will start to crack, crumble, and fall apart. Pure and simple enough!

    The same principle holds true for our ‘moral’ and *spiritual* foundations, in any given society, right!

    With all due respect to our ‘economic, financial, brains out there, you are attempting to analyse the *SYMPTONS* of the serious problems that are getting worse, globally day by day, and quite naturally, (pseuchekos de anthropos) cannot understand that the *UNDERGIRDING* of our superstructure, as a people, society, nation, is moral and *spiritual* and that, my friends, is essentially why every thing ELSE is beginning to FALL APART!

    Let those who have eyes to see, SEE, and those who have ears to HEAR, HEAR!


  9. I know this will upset, annoy and anger many, take Haiti for example, NO matter how much $$$ are poured into that country, and regardless of how much expertise is sent into that nation, it will only yield nominal results, WHY?

    Because, the very heart, core, of their problems IS *spiritual* as it is a fact that almost 99% practice VODOO, which brought a curse upon the land, crops, and people.

    Throughout the OT, whenever the Jews turned their back on the One True and Living God, and ventured into gross *idolatry* their crops, land and as a people suffered terribly, and this also holds true for ANY other ethnic group of people any where.

    Our ‘gods’ in Bimshire, for the most part, are modern day *idolatry* secular materalism, and all that pertains therein.

    “Righteousness exalteth a ‘nation’ but sin is a reproach to any people.” (Prov. 14:34).

    Therin, is the ROOT of all of our problems!


  10. Can you name an incumbent Prime Minister or President who, having inherited an empty trough and humongous debt, fulfilled pre-election promises in the first 100 or 200 days? Not even President Obama with all available resources was able to do it.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    WHATEVER YOU ARE IMPLYING

    HERE- IT IS BARE SHYTE.
    This Government inherited a sound economy. The BLP did a great job !


  11. If we were to live within our means and reduce dependence on loans and credit the banks would be forced to lower interest rates and other charges.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Everything possible is done to make sure that poor people will never again subscribe to such thinking, voluntarily.

    They are conditioned from small, to always strive for the best, that “cheap tings no gud and gud tings no cheap” and that bigger is better.

    The problem is that by the time you get the “best” through the front door, there is a new and improved version being placed on the shelf.

    In this material world, what is a poor man to do, when at every turn there is a no down payment or fast loan sign displayed?


  12. Zoe

    Why do you always have to come with fire, brimstone, damanation and fear?

    Please, before you make such blatant comments about Haiti and its people, read the history. It is the history that has it in the shambles it is in now. I will give you a hint, the Europeans, namely France, backed by Britain and the US has that poor country, the poorest in the western hemisphere. Maybe later, I will give you a history lesson. Better yet, ask David Commissiong, as a Pan Africanist, he should know even more than me.

  13. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    Here Patโ€ฆ this is how Rudder put it (looked for the lyrics online, but couldnโ€™t find them so relying on memory)

    Toussaint was a mighty man,
    And to make matters worse he was black.
    Black and back in the day,
    When the black man knew his place was in the back.
    But this brother he ran through Napoleon,
    Who thought it wasnโ€™t very nice.
    And so today my brothers and sisters,
    They still pay the price.

    Haiti Iโ€™m sorryโ€ฆ


  14. @Pat and MME,

    It would not matter how much history Zoe reads, he has an explanation that suits him.

    He will not a little thing like facts get in the way. He likes his explanation better.

    Presumably Qatar with the highest per capita GDP (IMF ,2008 PPP basis) in the world worships the one true god?


  15. @ LG
    “The future doesn’t look bright…”

    If you listen to 44 of the world’s leading economists – we are already out of recession…

    The Stock Market is on the verge of 10K rally…

    Gold is at an all time high and oil continue to hover around the mid 70’s mark…

    If these are the leading economic indicators, then the professionally accredited “beggars” at the government’s dept of finance should be riding off on their camels to DUBAI*, CHINA & AUSTRALIA to get their sacks laden with “corn” to avert the supposed famine which is upon the land…

    The problem is that most people cannot handle the truth and when the seemingly obvious is dangled in front of them – they bawk “conspiracy theory”…

    Maybe its time to have the real debate on what is going on…


  16. @ Pat, my dear, secular historic facts, re Haiti, are only one side of the reality that played out in this land. Anyone who can read knows what happened in this regard!

    However, the other side of the coin, the *spiritual* reality, crass, idolatrous, VODOO, you obviously don’t have a clue about; that’s why after 200 years + of independance, the same misery, poverty continues. Keep blaming the France et al, for all that has gone wrong there; keep passing the buck!

    What are the natural resources of Qatar?

    What are the natural resources of Barbados?

  17. Carson C. Cadogan Avatar
    Carson C. Cadogan

    These religious types are more of a problem than a solution.

    Take note ZOE.

  18. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Zoe, I am not going to get into a debate about whether your view is right or not. I would just ask that the view explain the whole not just a part. So, if Haiti is where it is through religious condemnation, then can the reverse principle explain those who are at the top and more importantly those who make up the middle?

    Qatar’s natural resources include crude oil and natural gas, whose price increases have built the modern economy. Before that it was a thriving fishing and pearl producing country.

    Barbados main natural resources include oil (not abundant at present), fish, and sun (which mixed with sea and sand make a nice cocktail that tourists like).


  19. TB ‘If you listen to 44 of the worldโ€™s leading economists โ€“ we are already out of recessionโ€ฆ

    The Stock Market is on the verge of 10K rallyโ€ฆ

    Gold is at an all time high and oil continue to hover around the mid 70โ€™s markโ€ฆ”

    Terence, firstly, I would say that gold is at an all time high, because many are still seeking refuge there, thus, that is not an indication of economic vitality, per se.

    Secondly, oil is still quite high, partly for the same reason, partly because high uncertainty exists on its future, partly because the drivers behind oil prices in the last couple of years, were the increase steel use in Asia, which is developing, not North America and Europe.

    A stock market rally is ireelevant in assessing the economy, unless the duration of the rally can be determined.

    Even then,it may be reflective of certain market conditions, but other matters come into play.

    The definition of ‘recession’ itself can be misleading, if one sticks to measurement of consequtive growth quarters etc.

    But, that does not address the stagnant credit markets and consumers ability to spend, which has been impaired at least for the short and medium term, nor does it address high unemployment levels.

    Then, you have a further cocktail of continuing public debt, including military expenditure, which, forbid, is now going to increase by the looks of it, with Afghanistan finally admitted to be failed policy.

    This will compete with other fund uses and hence affect any rebound.

    As such, I am hesitant to start jumping up and down and hailing a turnaround, we are far from it.

    As a final point, did these same 44 economists also predict the START of this recession?

    The thing is, the rules have changed, the scenario has changed and the ‘glory days’ of over-the-top-credit funding consumer spending are not going to return anytime soon.

    Remember too, that many economists working for large corporations and institutions are going top push the ‘recovery’ word, for obvious reasons.

    Half of it is confidence, but that still cannot buck the economic reality.

  20. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Crusoe, little to add, save a few non-US-centric points:

    -gold is high in US dollar terms but about 25-30% off its highs in Australian dollar terms;
    -THE stock market does not exist: the Dow is not the best metric even in the US, with S&P 500 having a broader spread; and what about the world’s other stock markets?

    I would say that 44 leading economists agreeing on anything should mean it must be wrong ๐Ÿ™‚

  21. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Terence M. Blackett: “…already out of recessionโ€ฆ”? Asia-Pacific region looks to have turned a corner, with Australia leading the way (but it never had a recession), and all hopes pinned on China. Europe is mired in recession still, and unemployment remains horribly high: indicators are at best mixed for where the economies are now and 2010 is not a bed of roses. Don’t forget those crippled economies in eastern Europe and Iceland (the deepest downturn in the world). The US is still shedding 1/2 million jobs a week, and people call that ‘stabilizing’. Other indicators are that the economy is stumbling along and all that housing stock still to deal with.

    Yes, stock prices are bouncing up nicely but it’s pricing in a nice V recovery, which most do not believe will be the case. W or U are more likely outcomes.
    Already out? Not yet, mate.


  22. DJ aka LIB,

    ‘I would say that 44 leading economists agreeing on anything should mean it must be wrong ๐Ÿ™‚ ‘

    lol…


  23. Zoe // October 13, 2009 at 11:56 AM

    You really said that statement!

    HAITI WILL PAY AND CONTINUE TO PAY FOR MAKING THE MIGHTY WHITE PEOPLE KNOW THAT THERE WERE HUMANS AND NOT GODS!

    ……. You see, even if I was following and believing your argument after that comment above I would have stopped reading the crap you write!

    Don’t bring religion into total bullshit that those people have encountered and continue to suffer!

    You know how much money those ‘nice white people’ made from off the backs of blacks, and you have the gall and audacity to come on this blog and bring GOD and religion into this debate!

    Very disappointing very ………


  24. @Dennis Jones, “So, if Haiti is where it is, through religious condemnation, then can the reverse principle explain those who are at the top and more importantly who make up the middle.”

    A brief concise overview, of the historic reality that followed the Protestant Reformation of the 15th century, will suffice to confirm the fact, that those nations that generally honoured the One True and living God, of the Bible flourished by leaps and bounds, compared to the tyrannical, paganistic, idolatry of Roman Catholicism.

    A brief synopsis of this fact.

    “The Reformation was a *revolt* against legal bondage, (Catholicism) and an assertion of evangelical freedom. It secured freedom in religion, and as a legitimate consequence, also intellectual, political and civil freedom. It made the Word of God with its instructions and comfort accessible to all. This is its triumphant vindication. Compare for proof, Protestant Germany under William I., with Roman-Catholic Germany under Maximilian I.; England under Queen Victoria, with England under Henry VII,; Calvinistic Scotland and Lutheran Scandinavia in the nineteenth century, with Roman Scotland and Scandinavia in the fifteenth. Look at the origin and growth of free Holand and free North America. Contrast England with Spain; Prussia with Austria; Holland with Portugal; the United States and Canada with the older Mexico and Peru and Brazil. Consider the teeming Protestant literature in every department of learning, science and art; and countless Protestant churches, schools, colleges, universities, charitable institutions and missionary stations scattered all over the globe. Surely, the Reformation can stand the test: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” ( History of the Christian Church, Vol VII, The German Reformation, by Philip Schaff).

    The amazing reality of the fruit of the Reformation, and the countries that flourished under that liberty, is an historic fact, in spite of the sinful condition that still prevailed in many people.

    Haiti, like many other nations, i.e., South America, etc, were, a vicious mixture of Roman Catholicism, Alias Paganisn, coupled with a variety of idolatrous practices, Vodoo, Santeria, the Cuban version, Shango, the Trinidadian version, and Obeah, as the Bajans call it, ALL the same Demonic deception, just packaged under different names.

    All ancient civilizations, who practiced such abomination, came crashing down, one by one, as *IDOLATRY* in its various forms, as, inevitably it will do.

    However, even the Protestant nations (US, Canada, England, et al) that prospered in every way, from this Christian liberty, ARE all now beginning to reap the wages of their idolatrous practices, ‘secular materialism, humanism, hedonism, etc, etc., are now feeling the price paid for such, wanton, utterly Godless behaviour, including Barbados, as we are no different, paying ‘lip’ service to Almighty God who blessed us, having a form of Godliness, BUT, denying the power thereof!

    Almighty God, IS no respector of persons! Colour has nothing to do with idolatry, or righteousness!


  25. @ Anonymous, ‘Zoe// Oct 13, 2009 @ 11:56AM.

    “You really said that statement!”

    “HAITI WILL PAY AND CONTINUE TO PAY FOR MAKING THE MIGHTY WHITE PEOPLE KNOW THAT THERE WERE HUMAN BEINGS AND NOT GODS!”

    Are you OUT OF YOUR MIND, NO WHERE in my post of Oct 13, 2009, 11:56AM, did I EVER make such a statement, get your facts straight man, and STOP misquoting me!


  26. @ ZOE

    Who mad? Me or YOU!

    I was asking you if what you said on that particular date if you were MAD!

    All that was said in capital letters was said by yours truly!

    Stupes!!!!!!

  27. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Zoe // October 14, 2009 at 10:16 AM, your ‘tour’ of history has chosen points not lines to try to prove your argument, and I am not at all convinced. You also have carved the Christian world into two, and that still leaves me looking at the world I know and trying to see your theses in terms of non-Christian based countries.

    I also find it hard to accept your views on Lutheran Scandinavia/Germanic, where following the religion has hardly been a part of active life for quite some time, even worse it is often ‘state-prescribed’, rather than the institutional placement of religion as if it were an entry on a CV.

    Tell me about Africa and Asia (all parts) too, and not just about Europe and the Americas.


  28. Re
    โ€˜I would say that 44 leading economists agreeing on anything should mean it must be wrong ๐Ÿ™‚ โ€˜

    lolโ€ฆ

    If I had to choose between what 44 leading economists or 44,ooo leading economists say and what the Bible predicts…………I must stand with the Bible.

    I think we are well on our way to see the fulfillment of Revelatin 18.


  29. When I made the statement – “If you listen to 44 of the worldโ€™s leading economists โ€“ we are already out of recessionโ€ฆ”

    It was based on cynical, if not facetious repudiation of @ LG’s comment on-
    โ€œThe future doesnโ€™t look brightโ€ฆโ€

    The problem is that many well-meaning folks do feed on the “horse urine” spouted by these “pinheads” who talk up the economy based on who’s lining their pocket at the time…

    We are not even in a “recession” – for serious-minded, non-partisan experts in the field will tell you that this is more like a “Depression” and for anyone who has studied the historical trends of the late 1920’s and the 1930’s will tell you that the “CYCLES” are blindingly similar…


  30. @GP
    “I think we are well on our way to see the fulfillment of Revelation 18…”

    The angel of Revelation 18 is offering us all a chance to come out of a corrupt, capricious, carcinogenic system which according to the said angel has already “FALLEN” in the eyes of God and it is only a matter of time before it falls in the eyes of men…

    BABYLON IS FALLEN, IS FALLEN!!!

    This is the message!!!

    Sadly, men are trying to prop up a fallen monolith supported for 1000’s of years by the giants columns and beams of evil oppression, war and death by using “toothpicks” today in the hope that no one will realize that this diabolical edifice is crumbling right before our very eyes…


  31. @ Dennis Jones

    Could you clarify what you just wrote to ZOE* in your last post, because I am having a hard time understanding your wording, sentence structure and logic….

    For the uninitiated – PLEASE* clarify yourself!!!

  32. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Terence M Blackett October 14, 2009 at 12:37 PM
    As what I wrote is clear to me, perhaps you could indicate what you do not understand. Otherwise, we may just be going around in circles.


  33. @Anonymous, You are a blatant *LIAR*

    You said, “…you see, even if was following and believing your argument after, (NOTE!) ‘THAT COMMENT ABOVE..(What YOU WROTE, Not ME!) I would have stopped reading the crap you write.”

    Now, you come and say, “All that was said in capital letters was SAID by YOURS TRULY.”

    You are an IDIOT, nincomppop, period!


  34. @Dennis Jones, you would not be able to grasp, (no insult intended) the ‘spiritual’ reality of the point(s) I submitted.

    Regarding Africa and Asia, the same spiritual principle (reality) holds true for these continents, playing out in varying ways and degrees, from Europe and the Americas.

    Whenever, and wherever, a nation, continent, or civilization, ascribe to and practice, ‘abomination(s) contrary to the One True and Living God, as prescribed in His Word, whether it be ‘Polytheism’ ‘Pantheism’ ‘Animism’ Atheism, etc, etc., invariably, you find, either historically, or present-day, Dictatorship, tyranny, no freedom of speech, no freedom of religious choice, other than what is *imposed* state religion, i.e., Islam, and a host of other denial of human rights, that we in Western culture, have taken for granted.

    The central point being, that where ever the “Spirit” of Christ is allowed, you will find ‘liberty’ civil, religious and otherwise, as opposed to ‘Bondage’ in varying degrees, in these other non-Christian societies.

    That is a fact!

  35. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Zoe October 14, 2009 at 1:58 PM, so as not to make me feel insulted, I would rather that you assume that I can understand the spiritual realities, otherwise the discussion is meaningless.

    As I try to understand your arguments, can you tell me how many of the countries and peoples you actually know well? If you do not know either or both well, from where are you getting your information?

    You have an odd view of Islam, which is not a state religion, nor one that denies human rights.

    When I consider how the ethos of religions are applied, I see in the various strands of Protestantism aspects that you say you do not like, such as “…Dictatorship, tyranny, no freedom of speech, no freedom of religious choice…” It may be that you have a particular brand of Protestantism in mind, but as it is not universally consistent, it may help to spell that out.

    “The central point being, that where ever the โ€œSpiritโ€ of Christ is allowed, you will find โ€˜libertyโ€™ civil, religious and otherwise, as opposed to โ€˜Bondageโ€™ in varying degrees, in these other non-Christian societies.” That really means that these things that you see coming from the ‘Spirit’ of Christ can exist within any broader society. But also what you see as ‘bondage’ does not exist as you describe it. That too is a fact–different, I agree.

  36. Bad Man Saying Nuttin Avatar
    Bad Man Saying Nuttin

    What religion does China practice Zoe? Not Christianity so why are they prospering?

    India is not Christian yet they are prospering.

    Italy and Spain are heavily roman Catholic. Why are they relatively prosperous?

    Those Scandinavian protestant countries you were talking about; they were the hardest hit by the banking collapse. Some of the finance services industries in those countries simply disappeared and they are still reeling.

    The reason that those countries you talked about were prosperous is simply because they raped and plundered the new world. they took wealth and resources of any country they deemed inferior. They did it in Asia, Africa and South America and the Pacific.

    So they bound to be prosperous foolbert they had the wealth of 4 continents and countless islands to ensure that prosperity.


  37. @MME

    One hundred gold Louis’ per person, or the island would be bombed. British, French and American frigates off shore. The crafty US knowing there was no money left behind by the French bastards, who banked in France, offered Toussaint the money – At 100% interest rate. Thus, placing a millstone around the neck of Haitians for generations. They also controlled the economy because of said loan. They were still paying in Papa Docs time, for all I know, they are still paying back that loan and interest today.

    Leave Zoe out there in left field. The person who wrote Revelations, who in my humble opinion, was a sexually repressed, obsessive compulsive schizophrenic zealot, has nothing on our Zoe.


  38. @Dennis Jones, Are you a Christian, Saved, Justified? If not to what religious belief system do you ascribe?

    “You have an odd view of Islam, which is not a state religion, nor one that denies human rights.” Really!

    1. Under Islamic law NO criticism of Islam is allowed in Muslim countries.

    What recently transpired in Washington D.C, with a few thousand Muslims who reside in America, openly prayed to Allah, would NOT be permitted in Islamic countries in the Middle East, by Christians residing there.

    In England, in recent times Islamic citizens openly marched in the streets of London, carrying the most vile hatred, posted on multiple banners, decrying those who are not Muslims, calling for Jihad, kill the infidels, etc., all permitted by this Western nation.

    No such thought, far less an open demonstration such as, by Christians would see the light of day, in any Islamic country.

    The Nature of Islam.

    Western people have such a difficult time comprehending Islam, because they fail to understand that it a form of ‘cultural imperialism’ in which the religion and culture of 7th century Arabia are raised to the status of divine law.

    Sacred vs Secular.

    Their difficulty in understanding Islam is rooted in the traditional Western philosophic concept of separation of church and state; there is a “wall of separation” between church and state.

    But, Islam cannot be simply viewed as one’s private and personal religious preference. It is not just something you believe and then go on living as you please. There IS NO secular realm in Islamic countries.

    Seventh Century Arabia.

    Islam is actually the “deification” of 7th century Arabian culture. In a very profound sense, Islam is more cultral that it is religious.

    This is precisely why all the textbooks and the encyclopedias of Islam begin with the the historical context of Muhammad and the importance of 7th century Arabian culture.

    Therefore, to the Muslim, there is no ‘secular’ realm where he is free from Islam. To the devout Muslim, Islam is all of life.

    In Islam there IS NO “separation” of Mosque and state” that compares to the “separation of church and state” that prevails in most Western countries, Islamic religion and politics are one.

    As Egyptian born Victor Kahlil points out,

    “Islam regulates every aspect of life, to the point that culture, religion and politics in a Muslim country are practically inseparable.”

    Muhammad took the Arab culture around him with ALL of its scared customs and made it into the religion of Islam.

    Thus Islam id fueled by a subtle form of racism, in which 7th century Arabian culture in its political expression, family affairs,dietary laws, clothing, religious rites, language, etc., are to be *imposed* on all other cultures.

    What is probably, the most reliable translation of the Quran, was done by Dr. Arthur J. Arberry, who was the Head of Middle Eastern Studies at Cambridge University, and an outstranding professor of Arabic and Persian.

    In his famous two volume works, ‘Religion In the Middle East, Prof. Arberry states that Islam is a “peculiarly Arabian religion” because, Islam, “as a religion and a culture we recognize as fundamentally one.”

    Even Luslim scholars such as Dr. Ali Dashti, a past Foreign Minister of Iran, in his book, “Twenty Three Years: A Study Of The Prophetic Career Of Muhammad” carefully documents how Islam must be unbderstood in terms of its essential indentification with 7th century Arab culture.

    Civil Rights.

    Secondly, because there was no concept of personal freedom or civil rights in the tribal of 7th century Arabia, Islamic law does NOT recognize freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, or freedom of the press. This is why non-Muslims, such as Christians or the Bahais, are routinely denied even the most basic civil rights.

    In the West, people are free to protest what their government is doing. This is why thousands of people were even allowed to protest the Allied was against Iraq. They had the freedom of speech and assembly to do so.

    Not so in Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia. There was NO FREEDOM to protest the war in Saudi Arabia. The associated Press reported that on Feb 2, 1991, that,

    “Prince Nazel had warned that anyone undermining the kingdom’s security woukd be EXECUSTED or have a hand and a leg cut off.”

    Those who protested the war in the West did not even get a traffic ticket, much less a leg or hand cut off!

    DJ, you need the get your facts straight about Islam, which is a resolute denier of fundamental human rights, is Islamic countries of the Middle East.

    And, I am onky scratching the surface of Islamic law, you want to hear and learn more?


  39. @ Bad Man Saying Nuttin, before I get back to you; let me ask you, do you have any idea, what the word ‘Prosperous’ really means?


  40. @Zoe: (quoting) “Prince Nazel had warned that anyone undermining the kingdom’s security woukd[sic] be EXECUSTED

    Gosh! Execusted!

    That sounds awful…

    It would help your case, Zoe, if you cut-and-pasted from sources which actually were able to type accurately….


  41. @Halsall, mind your own business, I’d rather be right, morally and spiritually, than not to make the odd mistake in typing accurately!


  42. @Zoe… ROTFLMAO…

    That run-on sentence didn’t even make sense!

    No wonder you cut-and-paste….

  43. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Zoe // October 14, 2009 at 9:56 PM You ask “@Dennis Jones, Are you a Christian, Saved, Justified? If not to what religious belief system do you ascribe?” Yes. But as you draw a very stark distinction between Christians, I am not sure what that tells you.

    Your long answer did not address the questions that I posed on October 14, 2009 at 2:40 PM. To remind you:

    “@Zoe October 14, 2009 at 1:58 PM

    As I try to understand your arguments, can you tell me how many of the countries and peoples you actually know well? If you do not know either or both well, from where are you getting your information?”

    Once you answer that I can better assess your long and interesting comment.


  44. @Dennis Jones, Surely, you have seen this mornings BU blog on “Muslim Mafia in America” a real expose on what is going on, right in America’s backyard, by Musilm’s living in the America!

    Facts are stubborn things, and only the stubborn refuse to accept them!

  45. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Zoe, I read the blog on mafia, but I ask myself where do the Muslim take their place next to the Italians/Sicilians, Irish, Jewish, Chinese, Russian or other “mafia” that have operated in the US across all fields for most of the past 150 years? As you say, facts are stubborn thing…

    I’ll always draw a conclusion from an apparent stubborn inability to answer simple questions. Your views are not those that are built on your own experiences and therefore whatever source they are drawn from you are not able to determine what is really fact and what is not. You’re free to hold your views of course, but I would caution that you temper your judgements unless they are better matched by your having faced some of the facts.

    Matter closed for me.


  46. @Dennis Jones, you obviously do not have the ‘criterior’ of objective, cogent, coherent understanding, to make any sense of the facts.

    The structure of justification, in defending any propositional ‘truth’ claim, IS coherence, coherence is our sole criterior for truth!

    So be it!

  47. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Zoe. If you mean criteria (as opposed to some created term that you need to define), then show me cogency and coherence in what you written. The final sentence lacks both so I remain mystified. But such is life. Namaste!


  48. @Dennis Jones, “The final sentence lacks both so I remain mystified.”

    Sure you will, remain mystified; it IS common among multitudes, the world over!

    Light dispels darkness; you are unable to distinguish the two!


  49. @ LG
    “The Geneva based UN conference on Trade and Development concluded that the current system of currencies and capital is not working and proposed a complete overhaul of the monetary system. Under consideration is (I believe a single world currency)…

    You may be aware that the deadline for 70,000+ Americans with monies securely locked away in OFFSHORE* accounts expired yesterday 15th Oct.

    The IRS* is setting up offices in PANAMA*, BEIJING and other cities to prosecute would-be tax”dodgers”…

    Global economic restructuring amongst governments and corporations is resulting in massive social tensions which will only exacerbate conditions as wealth is redistributed to the top end of the “Pyramid” while the base continues to expands exponentially…

    Goldman Sachs CEO gets $100 million in pay, stock – jokingly said when asked what his remuneration will be like this year compared to last year with the massive economic turmoil said that “it won’t be less than last year”…

    While in France, the suicide count rises to 24 at France Telecom* due to economic despair –

    http://www.france24.com/en/20090928-suicide-france-telecom-unions-stress-restructuring-france

  50. Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados) Avatar
    Dennis Jones (aka Living in Barbados)

    @Terence M Blackett, I would not put much store into what UNCTAD are suggesting. If a new world currency is that easy a proposition, you would think that a common currency for the little old English speaking Caribbean would be a cake walk. No?

    My brain is not in good metaphor mode today, so beg you to decipher ‘Global economic restructuring amongst governments and corporations is resulting in massive social tensions which will only exacerbate conditions as wealth is redistributed to the top end of the โ€œPyramidโ€ while the base continues to expands exponentiallyโ€ฆ’ Thanks.

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