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Submitted as a comment by Junior Burchall in response to a commenter

homosexualityThere’s so much that I could take apart in your response (the false equating of homosexuality with paedophilia; the focus on anal sex, which effectively erases the reality of women who love and have sex with women; the pseudo-fact that ‘most homosexuals in the first world belong to the upper social and economic strata’ in their home nations –  I’d love to see the data on that!), but I think I’ll narrow my focus a bit and deal with, as you say, ‘our ancestral experience’.

Allow me to take you on a quick tour of what our family was into on the continent…..well before the first European landed there. Your whole ‘it’s against nature’  argument is at best, intellectually dishonest. I mean, nature has ingenious ways of allocating the limited resources found on the planet in ways that will ensure optimal species balance, infertility and same-gender interactions are but two of the built-in mechanisms that allow the ecological balance to be maintained, …and, let’s be real: we humans have always used our body parts for the achievement of multiple aims – hands for masturbation, mouths for cunnilingus and fellatio, etc etc, etc –, so are we to conclude that these pleasurable practices should be done away with simply because the body part in question was not primarily designed for this purpose?

Afrocentric homophobes (an oxymoron if there ever was one!) are fond of claiming that homosexuality was the result of an alien cultural incursion and that, prior to the arrival of the whites and Arabs, nary a batty bwoy could be found…seen, seen…..yet, among the Maale of southern Ethiopia, men who took on female roles and had sexual relationships were called ASHTIME. Among the Meru (of Kenya), same-gender loving [SGL] relationships were seen as normal. indeed, some Meru who occupied positions of religious leadership (they were known as MUGAWE) often wore women’s clothes and hairstyles. they were also sometimes married to men. These PRECOLONIAL expressions of sexuality and gender-identity fly in the face of impassioned pronouncements within the ‘conscious’ community that SGL is un-Afrikan.

Prior to the invasions – first by the Arabs and then by the whites – our Ancestors understood that Spirit is in all things and manifests itself in ways too numerous to mention. as such, they saw sexual expression as fluid, rather than fixed, and were not disturbed in the slightest by SGL spiritual manifestation. A similar worldview can be seen among the Red Earth Peoples (so-called ‘native Americans’).

Ironically, the ‘either/or’ essentialist dichotomies that are presently being misapplied as logical arguments by some Black folks were actually the gifts of the lesser minds with bigger weapons of destruction against whom they – the ‘conscious’ – CLAIM to stand in defiance.

A point of disagreement, Brother Daniels: since gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered people are most definitely to be counted amongst those who would self-identify as Black – and have been a part of OUR continental and Diasporan community from the beginning – there is no separation whatsoever between the Black struggle and the recognition of gay and lesbian humanity/ equality, the struggle is one and the same….and to embrace any other view is to put paid to any genuine aspirations for the creation of a revolutionary, liberatory pan-African movement.

I await your reply, Brother.


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276 responses to “Homosexuality Maybe Linked To Our Ancestral Experience”


  1. First, thank you Negroman. I can’t understand their interest in the subject at all, and, as u suggested has existed among them for centuries!! Very peculiar! Have u any explanation for it, as I have n’t. Is it god-induced? That’s difficult to believe!!

    Jack, I don’t disagree with u, at all, however, I also can’t deny the possibly, crippling effect of slavery! I know it ended some 200 years ago but its effects will be felt for a very long time, especially as we have n’t leaders with the aptitude to even appreciate the full adverse, implications for us of slavery!

    Bonny!! U know!! lol!!

    Jack, we could all see the grammatical errors but, do we care really?!! I’m more interested in what a person (anybody) has to say than the grammatical correctness of how he expresses himself!! If u applied that principle too widely, you’d probably ignore the opinions of 75% of the world’s people, if not more!! Is that what u would like, really. Not I, bro! Can’t bother with it plus, this IS a blog!! What I’m more interested to know is one’s theory for man’s interest in homosexuality. NM says, white man but, as we know, it seems to be growing in attractiveness among our own men! How has this happened and what’s the solution!!

    NM, I can tell dat u really love white people, boy!!

    Laaaaaadddddddddddddddd!!

    NM, wha duh do u?!!

    LIB, u want me to turn my attention to your Jamaican people again, do u!!

    Well, here’s another one that I ‘dreamt’ up!!:

    Can’t find the link now but, as I referred to before, two more murdered by your people the other day, alone!!

    LIB, please don’t remind me about your people! I don’t want to be sick again tonight!!


  2. Bonny Peppa my sweetheart & darling .Greetings.

    NO homosexual can come around this strong real African man especially if he is a stinking European.

    Living in Barbados & Jack the ass Bowman,the nasty Europeans have Men & Boys Clubs advocating the rights of men to live & have sex with little boys. I would appreciate a response from you 2 scholarly individuals on this matter.

    The elimination & extinction of sub-human,half make Europeans from this earth will undoubtedly bring about a more peaceful,stable & morally uplifting world.

    Homosexuality is a European thing.

    To stop homosexuality is to stop the wicked,disease carrying nasty Europeans.

  3. Random Name Generator Avatar
    Random Name Generator

    Thank you NM, you could not be a better caricature of hatred and closed mindedness if you tried.


  4. bonny peppa you make me crack up.

  5. Sir Bentwood Dick Avatar
    Sir Bentwood Dick

    Blog entry # July 29, 2009 at 1:04 pm

    (dis like Star Trek deng),

    LOL.

    No, me aint get de memo.

    E-mail to Benwood@superwind.com

    Just kidding. If everyone else talking ….,
    I might as well too!! LOL.

    Lawdy, come fo you worl’.

    Dem got lunatics bout hey deng.

    And to think that alla de people reading dis blog international, musse think some a dem so escape from the local institution.

    As dem say, dey got mo’ out dan in….

    Bimbro man, careful, if NM to be believed, ya going get jump anytime bout now…LOL.

    Bonny ‘the Hot, Hot’ Peppa would have to go a round wid you afta dat, to get ya back in gear..LOL.

  6. Sir Bentwood Dick Avatar
    Sir Bentwood Dick

    Check de picture….

    Bonny peppa dancin an winin in the street, in she flowery dress, gettin on baaaddd.

    De Bwoy Bimbro arriving pun de plane, map in e hand, looking lef an right eagerly with a wicked gri, leffin de airport, getting to de street, passing de inviting rythmic dancing of girls in tight shorts, still searching he head leff an right, passing NM shouting at the top of his voice bout de Europeans, spit flying from mout, gesticulating wildly, passing Jack ‘the mac’ Bowman, drinkin a banks and tekkin it all in, till he come to he love Bonnie, an then de real winin’ START!

    See dat music video in yuh mind?

    I shud be a director, deng!


  7. BIMBRO, your obsession with things Jamaican makes me think that you are really a sick person and are hurting yourself by how you beat yourself up with Jamaican bad this, bad that. But your comments are such utter rubbish. The link to the English rag is sick and sad as shows what–a bunch of white Jamaicans or a wild bunch of sick people who are preying on teenagers. Save us all that drivel that you spew out and stop contradicting yourself about how you will be brief then going on at length about nothing, unless you smell a bit of skirt on the loose. Child!


  8. Sir Bentwood Dick Esq.
    Wait lemme ketch ma self. Ya got ma cryin’. You is one sick Dick fa tru.
    But I luv de musik videa, you mad? Ya faget to describe my Bimbro outfit doe. I pitchurin he now in he Bamuda shorts and machin shirt. Straw hat ta boot. An you kno how de Hinglish love da green socks an brown sandals? Aw-rite den.

    Lites, action, camra.

    See ya at kadooment Bentwood. Ya outpatient.


  9. Sir Bentwood,
    You mean spit flying from NM mout or goff-balls? Which?
    Murdaaaaaaaaaaa.


  10. LOL!! Dick, yes, I can c dah happening right now!! D only ting is dat when I enquired about an A-Z of streets directory fuh my visit back home duh tell me duh don’t have none, dat everybody know way everywhere is!! But I had to tell she dat, I in from day!! well, not recently!! So she said!! “Well, I doan know den”!! So I jus give up!!

    Laaaaaaaaadddddddddddd!!


  11. That’s right ‘Anonymous’, I invented the story about your sick, Jamaican, shit-friend murdering the poor English girl and damaging our reputation over here, even further! Do one, bro!!


  12. Yeah Bonny!! That’s me, babe!!


  13. BIMBRO, you are a total fraud, mate. I hear geezeers like you all day long when I am back in England. As they say, all mouth and trousers. In other words, talk, talk. Your reputation? If you had one to defend it would be defended. Youre a lame excuse and want someone else to take it out on. You look for a Jamaican to be your villian every time. Is the economy being crippled by that Jamaican Gordon Brown? You must be totally blind, if not mental. Give it a break, washout. And wash out that fithy mouth of yours. Maybe that is what people don’t like about you.

    If you have the brains for rhyming slang, take a big “Tumble Down The Sink”. Tell the people about what is going on in England, not what is bothering that sick little pea inside that pod you call a head.


  14. I’m a Trini, and when I’m in England, I read a decent paper. Look at what The Guardian says about how the police treat black people, http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jul/21/police-fail-black-communities-racism. Read also what English kids are doing, http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/26/man-arrested-gang-stabbing, in posh lily white suburbs in England. That Bimbro character is in a dream world. He needs a good tonking.

  15. Electric Avenue Avatar
    Electric Avenue

    Anonymous:
    It is best either to read Bimbro’s nonsense, laugh, ignore him and move on, or just don’t read him at all. Well over a year ago I stated that Bimbro is obviously an inmate at a mental institution, and thereafter either ignored him, or read his pathetic diatribes and laughed. By no stretch of the imagination is that character normal, but I think the more notice you take of him, the worse he becomes. He appears to get a warped sexual “high” on criticism and goes into a frenzy. The man is as mad as a hatter. Take pity on him. End of story.


  16. Negroman asked for a scholarly response to “the nasty Europeans have Men & Boys Clubs advocating the rights of men to live & have sex with little boys. I would appreciate a response from you 2 scholarly individuals on this matter.” You do not need to be a scholar, mate. Just open your eyes to what is around you. You may want to play the denial game and say that it is white Europeans who ‘invented’ homosexuality. Of course, ‘Africans’ like you claim you are will just wallow in the knowledge that the poor blacks on the Dark Continent knew nothing before the white man arrived. That’s the conclusion of your argument. That black people are pawns waiting for guidance from the blond and blue eyed. And look at Barbados now. Lapping them up still every day by the plane load. That means that in no time soon, all Bajans will be following the lead of the Brits. Rock on, Negro. Dumb is as dumber gets. Let me find my ball and chain. Sorry fellow.


  17. Anonymous,
    Ya very rancid wid my tu men sa early dis mawnin. Lordddddddddd. But I can hardly wait for their rebuttal caus de tu a dem in easy. I wait wid baited breff.
    Ya find ya ball an chain? Hope so.


  18. Anonymous, if Gordon Brown and the entire government were Jamaicans u, and people like u, would still be searching for excuses to justify their actions which is why I don’t even like to think about your people. Unfortunately, somebody on here referred to them and reminded me about them but frankly, I would much prefer to imagine they don’t exist. Sadly, when it’s not on here, it’s on the telly that I’m reminded of their vile conduct! Take a running-jump, bro!!


  19. Anonymous (8.14) You dumb shit of white trash you have just written a heap of shit that cannot be explain.I thought that you would have challenge me on the issue of men & boys clubs that the bulling white men have.Come & challenge me and let all of know if there those sort of clubs are in existence or not.


  20. It’s nuh wonder Brown virtually ban dum from entering Britain!! – an he right, too!!


  21. Well, another Anonymous (yet another one two cowardly to adopt a name and stick to it!), I doan live in d suburbs! I kay bout wha happening in my town!!

    Idiot!!


  22. Negroman, u in wrong! When I was a young man, newly started work, hay in Britain, I was ‘befriended’ by my immediate superior, can u believe this, a middle-aged, respectable-looking Englishman, until one day, in his car, he took out dis ablum of pics of men and boys in d nude wid erections an everyting else!! Lord!! I wus suh frighten dat I hardly din know wha ta say!! I tell e, ‘no thank u’!! but dah was n’t wha I really wanted to tell e!! Once he c I was n’t interested I soon had to leave d job!! U tink dis country easy?!!

    Lord!! Yuh have tuh have a strong stomach ova hay, and, den, dere d Jamaicans!!

    Lord!! Wunna should have mercy on me!!


  23. And, these days, homosexuality is much more the norm, than then, so you can imagine!!


  24. People trying to tell me Gay is not anti-life be cause them using science to make babies. HA. that makes it worst, I feel sorry for the children that are forced to come up in such a environment were they don’t know who is mum or dad.

    Cloning people have nothing to do with the fact that Gay is wrong, how can a gay have rights? Gay is a learnt behavior and if you get rid of all the gays they would be nun left to teach.

    Gay is a real problem, There is a gay person on every tv show i bet 1 in 5 charters on tv are portrayed as gay. a figure not matched in real life.

    I don’t really care who start the whole gay thing but they are some clues as to who spreading it, like what is the reason for a cabin boy(as in vikings), or a choir boy or a alter boy or why certain pastors are not allowed to marry, or even which governments actually leagilise Gay.

    To lay blame never really gets anything done, but ya would have to start by getting to police to stop the Gay from doing business in front the main police station EVERY night, it like the police are the main customers or something.

    i know if Rastas or Guyanese was gathering there the police would be on pun them every night, witch leaves me to wonder if the police are ‘on pun’ the gays as well (LOL)


  25. Homosexuals, homosexuals, homosexuals, homosexuals!!

    I gun invent a song call ‘homosexuals’!!

    Anybody got any lyrics?!!


  26. Bimbro,
    You penned a song for Rihanna a few munts aback, wah happen now dat you beggin bout fa lyricks now? Ya struction-mekka.

  27. Mash up & buy back Avatar
    Mash up & buy back

    Bonny Peppa sweetheart

    You don’t know how happy I am to see yuh back to yuh bad self.

    The place has not been the same when you were away.

    Lordee,a bellyful a laughs.


  28. Haaaaaaaaa, Bonny. Please doan remind me of my sweetheart, Ri!! Man I guh all strange when I think of her, man! There’s only one other musician who has dah effect pun me, and he’s been dead 30 years+, an he din even sing – except, a bit, but he just had to look at the guitar fuh it to start producing this fantastic music!! Bonny, please doan remind me of Ri!! Please!! Speaking of whom, I looked her up on the net the other day to c what’s she’s doing now. Checked out one of her latest numbers!! Rihanna jus lick d tune dead, dead, dead!! Nothing she can’t do man!! Caan get d blinking song out muh head now an Rihanna cut it fine live a devil!! Born tuh sing man!! If I ever meet dah father of hers, I gun kiss e feet man!! The girl’s a treasure-incomparable!!

    As fuh d r*** hole homos!! Caan even b bothered wid dem!! Bon, I was hoping dat somebody else would come up wid some lyrics, maybe even sweeter ones, to save me d time!!

    Tek care of yuhself, girl!!

    Speak soon!!


  29. Mash up, wayeva u is, it’s bedtime!! Guh back tuh sleep!!

    Laaaaaaaadddddddddddddddd!!


  30. Mash up & Buy Back
    Yes, Bonny trying to come ’round. You is a belly full a laffs yaself too. Ya devil.

    Bimbro,
    If you gun kiss Rihanna faddah feet, a wonda wah part a she muddah anatomy u willin ta kiss. Doan fa’get, she had to pass tru some way to enta dis worl. Ga long, ya sweet-thang.


  31. Mash up
    I always ask myself, ‘why be good and boring when I can be bad an’ exciting’.
    Ga long ya devil. (mwahhhhhhhhh)

  32. Thewhiterabbit Avatar

    This string would be completely entertaining were it not for the fact that so many entries display the complete bankruptcy of the local educational system. Not only do we enjoy the acerbic wit of Jack Bowman who so readily identifies failures in the teaching of basic Engish as a language, we are then exposed to the vile racism that permits Negroman to blame all ills on a group of people descended from a group of people who managed to leave Africa early-on in prehistoric times. Finally, we see the presumed association of homosexuality with all manner of supposed social evils. Let’s try a few facts, just for a change. Human sexuality, just like all other aspects of humanity, exists as a range of options and possibilities, some definitely tied to genetics, some learned, some a combination of both. Most true homosexuals do not “choose” this lifestyle. For most it is genetically programmed, it is often not difficult to see at an early age that some people are marching to a different drummer. To ask a true homosexual to “change” would be equivalent to a homosexual person suggesting that you should “change”. From a Darwinian perspective homosexuality constantly tends to eliminate itself from the population because most homosexuals do not breed. Next, does it really matter what two or more consenting adults do in the privacy of their own lives? Perhaps those of you who are so extremely exercised by this issue are somehow insecure in your own sexuality?
    Advice from Thewhiterabbit: Give it a break, folks. What these people do is not your business, what they do does not affect you. Let us live and let live in areas that have no real impact on our lives. I am much more concerned about gang-related gunfights at student summer camps, about rampant graft and corruption in government, and a host of other “real” problems than I am about what consenting adults do with various body parts. Of course there is always the old story about the homosexual man and homosexual woman who tried to date. It was not successful because they argued all night long about who would do what to whom with what and where. Oh yes, another fact. Less than half of homosexual men engage in anal intercourse. It is about love and attraction much more than it is about the physical sex. Last fact, just to head off the inappropriate comments, Thewhiterabbit is not homosexual.


  33. Thewhiterabbit,
    Is a good ting you declare you han’ at de end, caus I was beginin to feel so ’bout you. Defending de ’cause’ and all but like you say, if that’s their ting, it’s just as immoral as a whole lot of other tings. I myself maybe have broken every commandment except the one that talks about ‘thou shalt have no other God but me’. Dat is a commandment, right? Most of us, if not all of us, have broken all. Check good.
    I know a youngster who has those tendencies and his father before him has the same. He might not be but if you walk like a duck etc.
    You say less than HALF homo men engage in anal sex, I beg to differ. Could be wrong , but………………….


  34. Bonny, regarding Rihanna’s Mum! U can imagine which part of her anatomy I would love to kiss!! I jes did n’t want to say, in public!!

    Laaaaaaaaaaaddddddddddddd!!


  35. White Rabbit, u enjoy being a homosexuals-sympathiser or, are u one!! Listen, carry yuh filth somewhere else! We prefer to be NORMAL, in Bim!!


  36. Yeah, oh-so-normal Bim! The country that puts the “NORM” in NORMAL!


  37. @Themis et al

    Isn’t the homosexualilty issue a contentious issue across the globe?

    Why do you think this to be the case?


  38. It’s not really an issue across the globe, David. Well, maybe more than racism, but not by much. But since the opposers are backed by Biblical injunction, the GLBT movement is up against religion, bigotry and fear. Not exactly easy going.


  39. The voice of the people is the voice of God!


  40. @ Anonjam

    Anonjam poses questions:

    Quoting anonjam: “Jack Bowman (1) Why are you not as caustic when you post on the BFP blog? And (2) Why are you not as fastidious about grammar over at BFP?

    Surely the answers are obvious.

    If they’re not obvious to you, let me explain. (1) BFP has a much smaller proportion of commenters who are, quite clearly, subliterate racist wingnuts with the moral imagination of a brick. (2) The people who run BFP obviously know how to put sentences together, whereas whoever runs this blog is a clear candidate for a test of undiagnosed dyslexia.

    I hope that helps.


  41. Anger
    “Anger’s my meat; I sup upon myself,
    And so shall starve with feeding”.
    Coriolanus


  42. So why do you come over here, Mr. Bowman? Surely not to treat with us subliterates? More interesting topics, maybe?


  43. Well Mr. Bowman, I am not sure that I agree with your assessment but I can’t say that my questions have not been answered.

    I personally have problems with both blogs (To be specific: BU’s contributions on race and BFP’s ill-informed diatribes). However, in my view, the persons who run BFP seem less knowledgeable on the issues and are definitely not paragons of literary expression.

    I think that your real problems with Barbados Underground stem from the blog’s views on racial issues rather than David’s ability to “put sentences together”. I share your concern. I also abhor some of the contributions on this site regarding race. However, you must admit that David is usually very respectful towards those posters who disagree with him (even when those posters hurl subtle and not so subtle insults towards him). The same can’t always be said about those who moderate the BFP site.

    Look, I truly enjoy your posts. They are always well written and usually very humorous. Sometimes I actually agree with what you have to say. However, I also feel your comments are unnecessarily hostile towards the BU moderator.

  44. Rumplestilskin Avatar
    Rumplestilskin

    David ‘The voice of the people is the voice of God!’

    With respect Sir, I disagree.

    I would say that each one of us, can have or follow the voice of the Almighty, but, it is highly dangerous to attribute thoughts and actions of people as a ‘body’, to the Almighty.

    This brings to mind things such as mob mentality, lynchings when a group is allegedly ‘acting as God wills’.

    Maybe, I mis-construed the context of your words?

    But, on a stand-alone basis, they are frightening.

    Peace

  45. Rumplestilskin Avatar
    Rumplestilskin

    Unless of course, you were ‘fishing’?

    Peace


  46. @Rumplestilskin

    Certainly we are allowed to operate on a presumption that in a stable and civil society the voice of the people maybe reasonably expected to be a voice of reason?

  47. Random Name Generator Avatar
    Random Name Generator

    @David

    I am sure that I do not need to remind you that in the Slavery has been approved of by a majority of the populations of various cultures through time.

    What you are advocating is know as the Tyranny of the Masses. It is where the public get to victimize whatever minorities they choose to demonize at the time with impunity.

  48. junior burchall Avatar
    junior burchall

    interesting reasonings, Brothers.

    ……..and ‘Afrocentric homophobes’ most certainly is an oxymoron, RN. but thanks anyway for trying to correct something that you felt was wrong.

    @ Negroman:

    consider this pathetic irony…you are using the queen’s english (born of the commingling of various european tongues) to spew vitriol upon the heads of the half-human european. sad, brother…..real sad.
    if you are that passionate about distancing yourself from all things european, i humbly suggest that you take their tongue out of your mouth. pick up an indigenous Afrikan language (Yoruba might be the way to go, as many Bajans are descended from this ethnic group).
    furthermore, what does the fact that we, the great and mighty sons and daughters of the Motherland, were laid low and effectively brought under the boot of these pale-skinned savages (in keeping with your penchant for name-calling) say about us? were we really all that ‘great’ and ‘mighty’? or is the reality infinitely more complex than the ‘we are superior vs they are inferior’ framework that you so liberally employ?

    ….just a few thoughts………


  49. @Anonjam

    What about how BU handles the race conversation you don’t like?

The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.

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