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Submitted as a comment by Junior Burchall in response to a commenter

homosexualityThere’s so much that I could take apart in your response (the false equating of homosexuality with paedophilia; the focus on anal sex, which effectively erases the reality of women who love and have sex with women; the pseudo-fact that ‘most homosexuals in the first world belong to the upper social and economic strata’ in their home nations –  I’d love to see the data on that!), but I think I’ll narrow my focus a bit and deal with, as you say, ‘our ancestral experience’.

Allow me to take you on a quick tour of what our family was into on the continent…..well before the first European landed there. Your whole ‘it’s against nature’  argument is at best, intellectually dishonest. I mean, nature has ingenious ways of allocating the limited resources found on the planet in ways that will ensure optimal species balance, infertility and same-gender interactions are but two of the built-in mechanisms that allow the ecological balance to be maintained, …and, let’s be real: we humans have always used our body parts for the achievement of multiple aims – hands for masturbation, mouths for cunnilingus and fellatio, etc etc, etc –, so are we to conclude that these pleasurable practices should be done away with simply because the body part in question was not primarily designed for this purpose?

Afrocentric homophobes (an oxymoron if there ever was one!) are fond of claiming that homosexuality was the result of an alien cultural incursion and that, prior to the arrival of the whites and Arabs, nary a batty bwoy could be found…seen, seen…..yet, among the Maale of southern Ethiopia, men who took on female roles and had sexual relationships were called ASHTIME. Among the Meru (of Kenya), same-gender loving [SGL] relationships were seen as normal. indeed, some Meru who occupied positions of religious leadership (they were known as MUGAWE) often wore women’s clothes and hairstyles. they were also sometimes married to men. These PRECOLONIAL expressions of sexuality and gender-identity fly in the face of impassioned pronouncements within the ‘conscious’ community that SGL is un-Afrikan.

Prior to the invasions – first by the Arabs and then by the whites – our Ancestors understood that Spirit is in all things and manifests itself in ways too numerous to mention. as such, they saw sexual expression as fluid, rather than fixed, and were not disturbed in the slightest by SGL spiritual manifestation. A similar worldview can be seen among the Red Earth Peoples (so-called ‘native Americans’).

Ironically, the ‘either/or’ essentialist dichotomies that are presently being misapplied as logical arguments by some Black folks were actually the gifts of the lesser minds with bigger weapons of destruction against whom they – the ‘conscious’ – CLAIM to stand in defiance.

A point of disagreement, Brother Daniels: since gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered people are most definitely to be counted amongst those who would self-identify as Black – and have been a part of OUR continental and Diasporan community from the beginning – there is no separation whatsoever between the Black struggle and the recognition of gay and lesbian humanity/ equality, the struggle is one and the same….and to embrace any other view is to put paid to any genuine aspirations for the creation of a revolutionary, liberatory pan-African movement.

I await your reply, Brother.


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276 responses to “Homosexuality Maybe Linked To Our Ancestral Experience”


  1. People will always find justification to support the most outrageous behaviour in society especially when they themselves are participants.They make up history as they go along and even cling on to questionable scientific findings. I tell you if a man choose to have sex with his mother, sister, animals …..they will tell you the same balderdash with historical references. Then again even if the historical narrative is true it still does not make the behaviour right.


  2. I don’t think you could have said it any better.


  3. zion 1971,
    I would come an’ suck all de mud from in you toenails now. You are soooooooo correct. These ‘people’ are always looking for straws to hold on to like de proverbial drowning man. If wunna want ta be wikkas an bullas, go ahead and live your lifestyle but stop trying to convince John Public dat it is de norm cause we kno’ betta.
    Stupseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.


  4. @Bonny

    But so what if homos are trying to convince the public?

    Why should it bother you?

    @zion

    “They make up history as they go along and even cling on to questionable scientific findings”

    Right. Homos do it, Christians do it, Muslims do it, Afrocentrics do it, Eurocentrics do it.

    EVERYbody do it…

    @Junior Burchall

    “Afrocentric homophobes (an oxymoron if ever I heard one!)”

    In trying to be clever, you use the wrong figure of speech.

    The term you want is “tautology”.

    Peace.

    RN

    I think the


  5. “Afrocentric homophobes”

    The undermentioned is just an observation for fun, no more than that.

    Tautology: Greek tautologia, saying the same eg “My friends spoke all at one together”

    Oxymoron: Greek oxumoros, The combining in one expression of two words or phrases of opposite meaning, for effect:
    eg “But fare thee well, most foul, most fair! farewell,
    Thou pure impiety and impious purity!”

    Has Afrocentric homophobes been correctly observed? no reply necessary, repeat, this is just for “fun”, stay with the thread.


  6. Zion, RN, WoW and Bonny!! Ur so right!! Weirdos will say anything to justify their deviancy! Left to me, I’d drown them like rats!!


  7. An interesting video from the Gay Olympics, http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2009/jul/28/world-outgames-2009-denmark. The Caribbean teams were all disqualified for too much gentlemanly conduct. Note that the objective in all the sports was to be bottom not top.

  8. Random Name Generator Avatar
    Random Name Generator

    Whether you agree with homosexuality or not, the OP present evidence that this is not something foreign to Africa imposed by colonialism.

    The fact that it existed in Africa makes no argument to the question of the acceptability of homosexuality.

    Homosexuality has been observed in all “races” (leaving aside biological arguments about the usefulness of races as a biologcal concept in humans). And has been well documented in mammals and avians.

    It is well established that homosexuality is natural, that it is natural does not mean that it is right.

    I think the debate should be focused on the ethicsmorality of homosexuality not in arguments about naturalness.


  9. Excellent, but watch out for people like……

    @Random Name Generator “It is well established that homosexuality is natural, that it is natural does not mean that it is right. ” So according to you, nature, created presumably by God, is wrong. I wonder if the Almighty and Mother Nature will agree with you.

  10. Sir Bentwood Dick Avatar
    Sir Bentwood Dick

    Playing devil’s advocate…

    So, which is worse, for example, a young fella got nine women, five children, supporting none, passing STD’s and liming on de block and selling drugs to survive,

    OR,

    For example, a young fellow in a homosexual relationship, that does work in the hotel industry as a respected authority, contribute taxes, an only got one person in de relationship?

    I put the extremes, to demonstrate the reality that morality may well not be absolute?

    Surely the one-man fella is contributing much to society in taxes, work in a foreign exchange area, with only one ‘love’ living a clean life.

    But, the other fellow is damaging society with STD’s, ‘unfathered’ children, cutting peoples lives with drugs, no taxes?

    So, to get crass, would Bimbro still drown the young fellow who is in a same-sex relationship, or the other one?

    Would some of you chastise him and leave the other one on his merry way?

    This is the thing, when discussed at a national level, we must address different aspects of the issue, putting priorities where they belong.

    Does it hurt me, if for example, a neighbour is in a homsexual relationship, say, is very friendly to my family, never a bad word, contributes to society?

    No. So why cut that person up with hatred?

    I can tell you, if a neighbour selling drugs in the area and carrying illegal gun and ting, I calling de Police!

    There is privacy, there is society, there is a wider aspect to the issue.

    Adn I have not even gone into the personal decision aspect etc of the issue!

  11. Random name generator Avatar
    Random name generator

    @Anonymous – Many things exist in nature: cannibalism, incest, fratricide as well as families, love and caring.

    The fact they exist does not argue for their “rightness” or “wrongness”.

    The fact that “Bad” things exist in the world and the implication that that might have on the existence of God has been discussed to death elsewhere, let’s not repeat that debate here, but stay focused on the issue at hand.

  12. Random name generator Avatar
    Random name generator

    How delightful, every child should be so lucky as to have two loving parents.


  13. RN,
    Ya got ma confuse. Where in my contribution did I ever mention that it is bothering me? It bothers me none who is a wikka or bulla. I reiterate.

    Sir Bentwood,
    Your argument could apply to either or.I know wikkas and bullas that have children, some neglected too and who lime on the block too and also have multiple partners and Lord knows what else. So I am having a little problem understanding your argument but den again, at my age, most tings are a problem for me to decipher. Gimma a chance.
    By de way, you hear de cropova tune “wuk up pun it”. Dah tune would do wonders wid a fella like you…….bent wood and dick et al.


  14. Bonny, sex gun kill u gal!!

    Laaaaaaaaaddddddddd!!

  15. Sir Bentwood Dick Avatar
    Sir Bentwood Dick

    Bonny Hot Peppa,

    My point is the danger in ascribing absolutes, rather than weighing the situation according to the circumstances, as to what is moral and not.

    You yourself said it ‘some neglected too and who lime on the block too and also have multiple partners and Lord knows what else’.

    So, what is moral and not?

    Homsexuality per se, or those negative factors that are introduced into society?

    Remember, I am here playing devil’s advocate.


  16. Bimbro,
    Mawnin, where is ya mannas man?
    Dat way, I would die wid a smile pun ma face an a jiggle in ma waist/waste.
    Ya devil.

  17. Sir Bentwood Dick Avatar
    Sir Bentwood Dick

    Bonny Hot Peppa,

    By the way, be careful, you almost got Bimbro buying a ticket to come down here hotfoot to chase wunna!

    LOL


  18. Sir Bentwood,
    Ya got ma cryin. How you kno’ my middle name is Hot? You did peepin?
    Anyway, like I said, it bothers me one who is either or. I have friends that are both. As long as they don’t come ‘roun me wid dat behave-ya, I don’t give a rat’s ass.
    Ya still in tell me if ya like de kaiso, “wuk up pun it’. I would like ta meet de fella dat singin um to see if he willing and able or jus willin. Ya wicked.


  19. Sir Bentwood,
    That should read ‘it bothers me NONe.
    Your name alone gets me all hot and bothered.


  20. Bonny Peppa
    Why you don’t behave yourself? how you know it’s not a girl with a man voice? you would want “it” to wuk up pun it?


  21. Wanna know how i stand on the whole gay issues, I don’t hate Gay i just think they should go find their own planet and leave humans alone.

    How Gay get accepted i don’t know, chalk that up to Christians as they say ya must love everyone, HA, at first it was a metal disorder now ya could see one in EVERY picture on TV.

    Junior Burchall i would love to see the data on your theory, was this taken from a African or European source? one can ague, if it is a European source its fake.

    I couldn’t classify women as a limited resources and if they were i would definitely make sure i have access to one
    Wouldn’t you?

    All in all, Gay WILLFULLY choses not to procreate, a basic essential action required for the continuity of the spices, therefore they are anti-human.

    And should be treated accordingly.


  22. The Scout,
    A blessed good mawnin to your good self sir. I am behaving myself. You’re right ‘it’ could be a woman but the name is KING Shepherd. Then again, one never knows cause Mia’s voice is more coarse than any other in the House. (oopsss)
    Bro. Scout, Bonny is trying to rise from the embers again boy. It is still a bit tough but I’m getting there with each passing day.


  23. B.P
    I’m so glad to see you’re back on and the old spicey bubbling self again. Keep it up girl, Love ya.


  24. Ready Done,
    Ya got ma cryin. So true.
    You heard of the gay couple in the States who have two children by procreating? No joke. When I see it pun Larry King, I puke all ova my carpet.Here’s the scenario. The “man’ in the relationship was born a woman but had her breast surgically removed and is taking hormones or some shite to grow beard, side burns and mustache. Here is where I have to laff. “It” kept its sexual organ which is a vagina. Now pray tell me, you want so much to be a man real bad but still want to hold on to certain things that are purely not Man. Gimme a break wunna clowns. Dat is a classic case of ‘wanting ya cake an eating it too’. Stupseeeeeeee. All they’re doing is just confusing de blasted innocent children. I doan k wah nabody sa.


  25. I care not wether a man or woman fancy their own kind behind close door.As a matter of fact if you like to get it on with a different specie I said go for it, whatever makes your boat float.What I am against is people with these dysfunctional sexual behaviour having the temerity to force on us the majority who donot condone such behaviour -that this behaviour is natural and at the same time agitating for recognition and equal rights…..what a farce.We cannot as a society go around cherry-picking morality for different groups.What about the person who have a sexual proclivity for minors or have a desire to have many wives /husbands etc? Why is it that his or her action is illegal? If a man was born a homosexual why is not plausable that a man can also be born a rapist, pedophile, murderer ? A society that regularised and legalised homosexuality, as far as I am concern that society has lost it moral authority on whats right or wrong…..it should be classified as free for all or anything goes society as far as morality is concerned.

    The GLBT success in legalising their many ‘equal rights’ from Europe to America (especially) deserve ‘credits’ but at the same time I think it is biggest FRAUD …..or for a better phrase the worst social engineering coup d’etat committed on society in the name of human rights.


  26. Morning Bonny darling!! Yes, yuh right, as usual!! Might as well enjoy yuhself, dear!!


  27. Sir Bentwood, I’m formally, asking Bonny ‘to save some fuh me’!!

    Laaaaaaaadddddddddddddd!!


  28. Ready Done // July 29, 2009 at 8:33 am

    Wanna know how i stand on the whole gay issues, I don’t hate Gay i just think they should go find their own planet and leave humans alone.

    ****************

    RD, thanks for that one bro, it’s brilliant! must remember that, and how true!!


  29. So true what u say, Zion!!


  30. Obviously, with anyone who has eyes to see, this is all the fault of Jamaicans.

    Jamaicans and the insidious white power structure.

    Jamaicans, the insidious white power structure and the Guyanese.

    Jamaicans, the insidious white power structure, the Guyanese and the CSME.

    Jamaicans, the insidious white power structure, the Guyanese, the CSME and “ghetto culture”.

    Jamaicans, the insidious white power structure, the Guyanese, the CSME, ghetto culture, and the WTO.

    Jamaicans, the insidious white power structure, the Guyanese, the CSME, ghetto culture, the WTO, and the IMF.

    Jamaicans, the insidious white power structure, the Guyanese, the CSME, ghetto culture, the WTO, the IMF, and slavery.

    In summary, it’s all because of slavery. Everything is because of slavery. Didn’t you get the memo?

    Peace.

    JB


  31. Jack, a great deal of our situation whether good or ill, whether u wish to acknowledge it or not, is a direct consequence of slavery! Clearly, u think its effects were inconsequential. Most would agree to differ!!


  32. As a policy I do not indulge myself in any homosexual discussion but I must agree with Bimbro.

    Homosexuality is anti-African & anti-life.It is an unnatural act that first had it origin in stinking Europe where it was and still is prevalent for nasty white men to have sex with young boys.
    The stinking white man is the only race of people on this earth who have men & boys associations trying to justify homosexuality.

    Yes homosexuality is is a stinking white man phenomena.


  33. @ Bimbro

    Sure, right. Excellent argument. Not in any way an excuse. In no way historically suspect. I can see how it makes sense.

    Every Celt I’ve ever met in London says: “You know, if it wasn’t for those bastard Saxons and those rapist Viking barbarians from Denmark, I’d be running a Hollywood studio these days. I’d be making a huge amount of money. And this country would be great.”

    Barbados is an independent member of the United Nations with full voting rights in all international organizations. It has an entirely free government elected by all enfranchised citizens of this sovereign state. At some point, brother, the Celt in London has to stop blaming ancient invasions for the fact he isn’t running a Hollywood studio.

    If you have a god, may he go with you.

    Best wishes to you and your family,


  34. zion 1971,
    I luv um bad, ‘whatever makes your boat float’. I heard of a Canadian woman whose boat floats with a dog. I receive some email at times of boats floating with horses, dogs and all dat madness. My Lord, come fa ya world. Only recently we had one of our own floating his boat wid a horse? Rememba? This is a crazy, crazy world.
    BUt how do we know that a person is born a homo? Or is this learnt behaviour? I’m curious to know.

    Bimbro a wonda wah um is you beggin fa now? I in abl’ wid you bosey. Ya demon.

    Negroman
    My honey-suckle. (mwahhhhhh)


  35. Ready Done, the procreation protest does not fly anymore. Same sex (that means both women as well as both men) can create children and do, as Bimbro’s Sun story shows. They can even arrange for children to be created beyond their lives (frozen sperm, frozen eggs). Now, people may have moral issues with that, too.

    Moral arguments falter because the same moral protests do not get applied to other ‘sinners’ (if the basis is religion) and you cannot go picking which sins are worse.


  36. Sorry, Bimbro,

    I was interrupted by the always entertaining (and in no way breathtakingly unsavory) thinker “Negroman”, obviously a true intellectual, who wanted to make this eternally important contribution to the discussion …

    [Can we lower the music and turn up the fanfare … here comes the thought of a major thinker …. Do we have music? … Here we go …]

    Negroman says: “homosexuality is is a stinking white man phenomena”.

    Now, that’s just great. Not only does he use part of the verb “to be” twice in succession (brilliantly innovative, in my opinion), but he has also broken the stupid taboo on use of the word “phenomena” as solely a singular noun.

    This, truly, is a man whose opinions merit very careful attention.


  37. Jack Bowman, I always enjoy your acerbic wit. However, I have been pondering the following questions:

    (1) Why are you not as caustic when you post on the BFP blog?

    and

    (2) Why are you not as fastidious about grammar over at BFP?

    (I am only asking out of sheer curiosity)


  38. So far so good bloggers.

    Everyone is ignoring jack ‘the fart’ bowman,as they should.

    He will soon crawl back to bfp and insult BU again until he wants some more attention,when he will resurface again.

    Ah well.


  39. Jack Boman why you reading the comment typical caucasion ……. h ahahahah


  40. Jack Bowman

    Why is homosexuality so rampant in the Catholic Church that has its origin in Europe.The Catholic Church is a homosexual church.

    Jack Bowman I want you to respond to the points I make and not to worry to much about my grammar.Your feeble attempt to discredit me is not working,but showing you up as an inept person afraid to deal with real harsh realities the stinking,disease,parasitical,killing Europeans inflicted on this earth.Homosexuality is just one of the evils that blighted,wicked race of unfinished humans inflicted on this world

    Jack Bowman, homosexuality is a stinking European phenomena that you cannot deny.

    Jack Bowman go & look for some little boy to satisfy your perverted mine.


  41. Negroman, whatever your view on homosexuals, you need to realise that it covers men and women. People often feel less threatened by lesbianism than by male homosexuality.

    Sodomy, including anal intercourse, covers a man doing it to a woman, and is illegal. If unsure, look at the recent case of a Jamaican MP who was defending a man for sodomising his neice. The same MP was arguing for changes to the Sodomy Laws at about the same time. The MP’s client was found innocent.

    See my earlier remarks about gays being able to create children; it’s just not from having sex together. That sounds like what a lot of heterosexuals do, except they usually do it under cover (tee hee) of adultery and other acts of betrayal. Good Christian values, eh?


  42. Negroman, again. You need to check your history. Homosexuality predates Christ and therefore Caatholicism. Now, if you want to say that the Catholics became more adept or inclined to do it (again, tee hee), then some could get a good argument going there. We know the Indians would want to weigh in saying they are not at the bottom of the list. The greeks? The Romans? Good Lord, almost everyone was doing doing it.

    Don’t forget to cover bestiality, of which there was a lovely case in Barbados recently. But some wayward schoochildren, so who cares? Who wants to be a sheep or goat here if you are likely to be buggered.


  43. Anonymous

    I know homosexuality relates to both sexes.

    I am no history scholar,neither am I a bible scholar as a matter of fact I am no scholar at all as Jack Bowman facetiously indicates,but I know homosexuality is no an African thing and real & true Africans abhor that anti-life act.

    The nasty,disease Europeans are the ones who love to engage in that sordid activity.

    The Europeans are not only a killing race but also a bulling race of people.


  44. HAHHAHAHAH LOL


  45. “The Europeans are not only a killing race but also a bulling race of people.”

    Almost perfect in its mindless stupidity.

    Interesting.


  46. Ya lie!

  47. livinginbarbados Avatar
    livinginbarbados

    @Negroman, your argument are mere statments. Europeans are… Why not just dream up something you don’t like and attribute it to people you dislike. This is bimbro logic.


  48. Dont mind them NM ALL OF THEM SHAME!

    THEY CANT HIDE THE TRUTH!

    Everything those bloodsuckers touched they destroyed and contaminated for their own PERSONAL GAIN!

    ca wannah blood clat! lol lol


  49. Jack Bowman,
    Stupseeeeeeee, look, offa my man de Negro fa ma. Get offa he BACK fa ma. You like you wanna tek dis homo ting literally. He doan play dah game doe. See he an doan see he, see he an doan seeeeeeeeeeeee he, tek he name out ya mout, tek he name out ya mout, you in no wah ya tawkin bout.

    Happy Cropover Y’all.
    H

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