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moralityIn recent comments Patrick Todd member of The Barbados Parliament made reference to the declaration of assets issue.  I am not concerned with the words spoken by Patrick Todd in this submission, neither do I seek to defend him as he is well capable of taking care of himself.  I will also leave the person to whom the remarks were addressed alone, as they are not the focus here.  As reported in the Nation News published 24 December 2008, making a judgment on Patrick Todd’s comments Peter Wickham wrote:

… and our population has never demonstrated a belief that personal morality have anything to do with professional competence or personal integrity…

The above seems a straight forward type of statement if it is looked at in a superficial way but if looked at in context, quite a few questions are posed as Peter Wickham has brought to the table as evidence the weight of Barbados public opinion.  I am not sure how he knows that because as far as I am aware the question has never been asked…but I will let that pass for the moment.

It is quite obvious that someone can be immoral and be very competent at what they do.  With regard to integrity, the footing becomes a little unsure – in a political context – as integrity could mean: adherence to moral principles; honesty.  I am not sure the average Barbadian would be happy with those in office if it could be proved beyond doubt that they were habitually dishonest.

I will leave Peter Wickham’s reasoning to ferment and move on to a hypothetical case.

Suppose we had a Prime Minister who was married and lived happily at home with his wife; he also openly had a 19 year old girl with two children in another household and a third lady safely ensconced as a mistress with another child in a separate abode.

His arrangement would not be illegal, the police could not come and arrest him.  No doubt his level of professional and political competence could be very high indeed, but a Prime Minister who openly demonstrated such a cavalier attitude in the face of the Barbados public could not be sure he would continue to have a high level of popular support.

If you use the argument that the Barbados population have never demonstrated a belief on “personal morality”; could it be that the “degree of immorality” has not been high enough to question their loyalty.  To use a minute level of immorality and to advance the argument it is “all embracing” seems very tenuous at the least..  My argument with the opinion that Peter Wickham has expressed is that the Barbados population might take a position on the “individual politician” and as a result of that view think they are not “suitable” for high office, despite their undoubted ability and competence.

This submission is not about Patrick Todd or another specific individual it is not even about Peter Wickham, it is about words used as the core of a belief which is purported to be in line with the Barbados population.  I am inclined to believe that the view expressed by Peter Wickham has not been tested at a high enough level of personal morality and integrity, therefore I am not as sure as he seems to be…perhaps I am wrong.


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91 responses to “Are Peter Wickham's Views In Agreement With Barbados Public Opinion?”


  1. My value assumption of homosexuality is when both partners have similar sex organs, now a while back a person said, on another blog that he had sex with men, but he was not a homosexual as he had sex with the men as if they were women. Now that was his value assumption regarding homosexual behaviour. I feel it is genetics because why would a big masculine man want to engage in sex with another big masculine man. I felt that behaviour had to do with males being XY meaning the X was the cause for their homosexuality, but then several weeks ago an East Indian Guyanese young lady weighing a mere 90 pounds gave an interview to the Los Angeles Times, and this was in the front page of that newspaper, that she was a gay and madly in love with a blue eyed, blond haired Russian, but what made the story intersting is that this young East Indian Guyanese is Moslem. She said, she never liked dating boys and that she use to stay late in art class at school because she thought she liked art, but she was really madly in love with the art teacher. She told the teacher her predicament and was sent by the teacher to the New York Gay, Lesbian and Transgendered Centre, where, as she was signing in, she meet the love of her life, the blue eyed blond haired Russian. Now this one bowled me over, as she appears petite and feminine in her old Guyana photos used for the article, but now she has changed up her appearance and looks like a pre-adolecent boy. I think you get my point, it must be gentics, because according to the article, this Guyanese has lost her family and friends, so why do this homosexual thing to be rejected. I say it is not any body’s business if they like that, just let thme be, but like the the Tammi Terrill and Marvin Gaye song says, there ain’t nothin like the real thing, but then again good lovin don’t come easy, so we just accept each other, as is.


  2. Peter Wickham does not carry the capacity to speak for me publically or privately on any matter regarding morality. When he figure out if he is fish or fowl, the he could speak for somebody, but still not for me. I prefer to voice my own opinion.


  3. We continue to be intrigued by the gay agenda debate in Barbados. Unlike their peers from the developed world they continue to fight the cause from behind closed doors. The day when a prominent gay Barbadian comes out of the closet and takes up the cause of enlightening homophobic Bajans the stalemate (is it?) will continue.

    Adrian H touched on this issue yesterday, we find it an interesting stand-off by the prominent Bajan homosexual.

    If Wickham is correct that Barbadians don’t care about the sexual preference(s) of those in public life why the hesitancy by our public figures to step out?

    Must we assume that all of our public officials are hetero?


  4. Warrior

    Please don’t stay away so long from this blog o.k.?

    Your level headed approach is needed badly to keep these discussions on even keel from people like’ Me’who from her postings seemed to be an avid homosexual who is intent on getting gullible bajans to believe that homosexuality is normal and not just a peverted,nasty lifestyle choice.

    May God help us all from the likes of those like me and their sympathisers who have positioned themselves in key positions and are trying to push this country in that direction.

    Check out the number of lesbians at CBC,and check out the number of pro-homosexual shows at CBC.

    Now tell me who is guarding the guard?

    Is the committee at CBC that is supposed to protect us from this influence the same people who are secretly and even openly practicising our sympathising with that lifestyle?

    Is Lucille Moe and those who were on the censorship board pro or against that lifestlye,and therefore what kind of films are we seeing released as o.k. for young children to watch.

    I know the board may have changed now with this new government but can we look back and see a definite pattern there?

    Food for thought.


  5. bulling bulling I hear a bell ringing

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhh


  6. Gear Box,
    U does kill me..
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh……………………murdahhh


  7. Warrior wrote “want somebody to give me all the positive reasons why we should all be homosexuals.”

    Look Warrior nobody ain’t asking EVERYBODY to be homosexual.

    We just saying to let the consenting adult heteros do what they do best, and let the consenting adult homosexuals do what they do best.

    And we want everybody to promise that if I don’t look into your bedroom when you doing your thing with a consenting adult, then you won’t look into mine when I doing my thing with a consenting adult.

    Everybody agrees to leave the children, the animals and the non-consenting adults out of the do.

    Everybody agrees not to to their thing in public nor with the bedroom door open,

    These are the rules of a CIVILIZED world.

    Everybody get it now?


  8. In the human body, there are normal cells and there are abnormal cells. In the healthy state, the normal cells dominate overwhelmingly, and in addition, the body’s natural defences isolates and discards any abnormal cells.

    Occasionally, the situation develops where the abnormal cells begin to multiply, sometimes tricking the body’s defences into seeing them as ‘normal’. When this happens, there are clear symptoms of illness, loss of focus, weakness and confusion…. and soon, that body dies – we call it cancer.

    In the ‘body’ called civilization, heterosexuals represents ‘normal’ cells. Homosexuals, and other sexual deviants are abnormal….cancerous cells.

    …and there is a clear agenda to fool our natural defences into accepting these ‘cancers’ as natural body cells.

    The fact that there are so many cancers, and in such prominent positions only indicate how close we are to terminal… Over the next three years we will see the results on our civilization.


  9. Bush Tea, answer me this. If I WERE TO transpose your analysis to the races, whom would be considered the “cancer” cells?


  10. Juris wha you had to go ther for nah? Oh Lord now!


  11. L O fooping L Bush tea what an analogy…
    So is homosexuality a new cancer?

    I say to you that the idea of human rights FOR ALL is the new cancer. Because nowadays everyone wants to be treated equally including the gays and clearly that is a problem for ‘normal’ people like you. I hope you only have sex in the missionay position with you on top since all else is sexually deviant from the norm!

    How stupid can you be!


  12. Still no one has listed the benefits of homosexuality, and give me the positives. I want to know how gifts and things the young men and women getting for joining this new club.

    I get the feeling that you all are trying to work the crapaud in cold water theory, trying to foist a homosexual lifestyle by making them feel it is ok, keep telling them it is ok, make it look glamorous, luxurious, high flying and beneficial get a few “enlightened and illuminated hetros” to say it is fine and then by the time we catch ourselves the water would be boiling and crapaud smoke meh pipe, homosexuality would want to be the norm and heterosexuality the abomination.

    I say the drug trade and started the same way, look at the results.


  13. dear warrior homosexuals have the same day to day lives as you so I dont know what you are talking about


  14. Dear me you wrote of Bush Tea “I hope you only have sex in the missionay position with you on top”

    You need to remind Bush Tea also to turn off the lights before he and the madam start doing the do, and to keep on ALL of his and the madam’s clothes. That they are only allowed to undo such small area of their garment as to get the deed done.

    All else is “wuthless”

    Reminds me of a friend of mine who proudly said “what? I was married for over 20 years and my husband never see me naked yet. Why would he want to see me naked?”


  15. D*mn*d pervert.


  16. This cry of “intolerance” and “discrimintion”is not by accident – it is the Gay Agenda.


  17. Some o wunna zenophobic, homophobic, everythingphobic, in other words, you are prime candidates for power hungry persons to put ideas into ‘fear-mongering’ and hatred.

    Anything alien is bad, supposedly, yet you embrace the North American materialistic lifestyle with glee, brand name everything.

    Tis a joke.

    Ignorance is bliss.

    Pointless to preach tolerance to close-minded individuals who think that it is ‘their way or the highway’.

    Nuff said.


  18. BU’s article notes ‘It is quite obvious that someone can be immoral and be very competent at what they do. ‘

    What are you regarding as ‘moral’?

    Is this restricted to sexuality, or would you agree that the Ponzi scheme adminstered by Maddoff was immoral?

    As such, some would argue that there are many instances of immorality in Barbados, including lack of transparent Government decisions, thus why single out sexuality, which behaviour would in itself arguable as to what we would ‘assess’ as immoral or not.

    Would a person as you say, who runs multiple households be held as immoral, but a persons in a same-sex relationship, who is ‘true’ to their partner, by moral?

    If not, why not?

    Additionally, surely Wickham’s point is valid, i.e. that homosexuality is so embedded in Barbadian life that generally it is not assessed as relevant to assessing competence?

    He is indeed correct that homosexuality is rampant in Barbados for sure.

    However, what may be the distinguishing factor is that in Barbados, it is has previously been hidden ‘behind closed doors’ but is now been exercised openly?

    How does one distinguish ‘morally’, between the woman with three different children, for multiple men, receiving support from multiple men, maybe even a woman thrown in, compared to the homosexual couple?

    Both of these diffeent scenarios are now regular instances in Barbados (the first for many years).


  19. Bush Tea
    You’re right on the button with this one. Society is becoming so tainted it saddens me. If homosexuality was normal, why can’t there be reproduction, a pregnancy? The bottom line is people has strayed soooo far from God that they even believe that they themselves are gods and have the right to be so classified. This world will self distruct. The cancers of drugs, homosexuality, greed etc while not new, has increased so rapidly that it threatens to engulf the entire body. My God will put an end to ALL of this if this world continues in this vein. Some of you might laugh but my dear you’re laughing at your own folly and you’re own destruction. My advice to ALL is take stock of you life and accept GOD as you’re ONLY Savior. NOW.


  20. I am not as ritualistic and caught up in the quoting of the Bible, I would never profess to be a Christian . However, I have serious problems with homosexuals who want to impose and RAMM their behaivour down my throat. If homosexuality is so right why do persons have to defend its ‘existence’?

    We never once had to ask why women can carry babies and men can’t; since we know this to be nature.

    I have nothing against those who choose to be gay, I know it must be very hard to be ‘different’ and yet be yourselves. But please don’t cram your lifestyle down our throats and expect us to condone your behaivour….. Moreover, what does homosexuality have to do with transparency of government issues.(Not that I don’t agree) but please dont compare the two it dont add up!


  21. And dont go there about women having different baby daddies. ha haha!

    I know WOMENwho fit your description and they have more ‘balls’ than the same baby daddies who have left them stranded! You think that these women went into a relationship to just have a child, this is far from the truth……. Not cutting it!

    I know homosexuals, and women with multiple baby daddies and they have hearts of gold! But I still have problems when these people want to cram their lifestyle down SOCIETY’S throat! PLEASE!


  22. Based on this “natural” argument. Here are some unantural things

    1. married couple who cannot have children
    2. married couples who do not want children
    3. couples who do not want to be married
    4. Women who cannot have or do not wnat children
    5. Hermaphrodites
    6. Anyone who has sex without the intention of having children

    7. contraception


  23. Moral behaviour in BIM

    1. Men with 10 child muddas
    2. Women with 15 child faddas
    3. Teenagers being whored out by their mothers
    4. women getting babies for money
    5. men sleeping with teenage girls and everyone knowing about it and doing nothing.

    And wunna worried about two grown men/ women doing they do in their bedrooms


  24. @ me

    You can also add to your list:

    1. gay men and women who have children from their straight days
    2. couples who adopt other children for a myriad of reasons

    The long and short is that sexuality has nothing to do with procreation. There are many bullers and wickers who have children and many straight people who dont.


  25. this idea of cramming a lifestyle down the public throat… what de hell do you mean.

    Are you saying that if all the homosexuals publicly declared that they were gay that this would be offenssive to you?

    Do you have a problem with people like Dee dee , Adri etc being themselves?

    Would you die 1000 deaths if many masculine homsexuals ( the kind that prolly work at your place of business) declared that they were into men?

    What exactlly are u saying?

    Why is this not a problem when you talk about your heterosexuality…. who wnats to know ?


  26. @Me

    you asked “what is a homosexual anyway”

    and, “How do we police this”
    ————————————————-

    are you taking issue with the term? or do you have a definition that no one else has thought of? Is there such a thing as a homosexual?

    I have never advocated policing the behavour. However i will not join with anyone in denying the Christians their views or beliefs, as i am not trying to move the bullers away from theirs, or engage social bullying (re-engineering) of the society to effect a change in their collective view of a liftstyle for the few, certainly not in the demanding and in your face approach that has many best practices in western societies.


  27. He who is widdout sin d’in spen’ enough time pun de toilet ….

    AAAAAAAAAghhhhhhhhhhhh


  28. Who said on 16 December, 2008 at a school speech day – “I am turned on by young boys in uniform”. It wasn’t Wickham.


  29. Dear Sir Bebtwood:

    You wrote “How does one distinguish ‘morally’, between the woman with three different children, for multiple men, receiving support from multiple men, ”

    So why is it immoral for a woman to have 3 different men over a period of years? And why is it immoral for a woman to accept support for her children from their fathers? A woman supposed to play moral and let her children starve????

    Show me the man who has only even had ONE sexual partner in his lifetime.


  30. Dear Sir Bebtwood:

    You wrote “How does one distinguish ‘morally’, between the woman with three different children, for multiple men, receiving support from multiple men, ”

    So why is it immoral for a woman to have 3 different men over a period of years? And why is it immoral for a woman to accept support for her children from their fathers? A woman supposed to play moral and let her children starve????

    Show me the man who has only ever had ONE sexual partner in his lifetime.


  31. Bonny Peppa // December 29, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    As always, lucid, well stated, brief and right on target – and it made me laugh too. Thanks.


  32. BWWR

    A blessed and productive 2009 and beyond to you mi amigo/a.

    Tanks ta ya good self too mate.

    Look, de BU member, ‘Harbour Lights cars got de road block” call me Bonny POPPIT. All like now I still laffin’ when I rememba dah. I luvs um baddddddd.


  33. I want to declare my sexuality

    I will start the ball rolling, others can do likewise.

  34. Barnabas Collins Avatar
    Barnabas Collins

    We are in the worse recession since the great depression and that is what is being debated in our Parliament, Mr. Todd’s stupid statement about parliamentarians declaring their sexuality. That was unbelieveable. I think Mr. Todd might not want to hear the debate to his stupid statement because he seems to be of the opinion that the only morally corrupt persons are in opposition. He maybe surprise.

    Further, I take exception as a Christian for Mr. Wickham to be making comments about the Christian bible being “not totally useless”. If he believes that “a rock” is a higher being and he wants to worship a rock, that is his business but who died and made him the authority on all things in Barbados. It now is evident that he is the only political scientist in Barbados and now it seems the “ONE”.

    I am not judging anyone and their sexuality, I leave that to my Lord Jesus Christ, he will return to judge the living, dead and Mr. Wickham.

    This homosexuality agenda that is being shoved down people’s throat first by hollywood and now it seems some people in Barbados, as an alternative lifestyle has no basis in any thing besides forcing mainstream citizens to accept it. As a matter of fact, Christians are the most tolerant when it comes to homosexuality, in other religions one can be hanged or stoned.

    This ends my contribution.

    BC


  35. And I thought “Dark Shadows’ ended aover 30 years ago… suck any bodies blodd lately?


  36. me // January 4, 2009 at 1:05 am

    And I thought “Dark Shadows’ ended aover 30 years ago… suck any bodies blodd lately?
    ==========================

    …..ha ha ha me has a sense a humour. :d


  37. ha ha ha ha h Todd is now calling for the banning of smoking in public places. Mia will now be force to cut back her chain-smoking ways or be seen less in public. ha ha ha ha you go Todd! 😀


  38. @ John Stevenson Dec 28,2008 at 10:26
    I owe you an apology as I did not respond to your remarks – addressed to me – at the above date. It was very early in the discussion and I wanted to wait awhile – I forgot – it was remiss of me , the discussion has since moved on, I can only apologise again.


  39. Patrick Todd as the Minister of State in the Ministry of Education better start paying attention to what is going on in education.

    Teachers are feeling the effects of the remarks made by the Minister of Education concerning the disciplinary methods of principals.

    The bashment boomer parents are wrecking havoc on our educational system by instilling poor behaviour in their children which is evident in the schools and supported by the Ministry of Education.

    If you feel that parliament is poor rakey wait until twenty years from now.


  40. Nationnews Columnist Bob Verdun has joined the debate.

    Yes, let the MPs say!
    Published on: 1/12/09.

    BY BOB VERDUN

    PATRICK TODD, the Member of Parliament for The City,has subjected himself to ridicule for suggesting that allMPs should have to disclose their sexual orientation.

    Critics assert that personal, private behaviour is not the public’s business – and they would be right if it were onlya personal and private matter, but that is not the case for the people who make the nation’s laws. The experience of Canada proves that failing to uphold moral standards and fight hypocrisy pushes a nation down a very slippery slope.

    Canada has reached the stage where same-sex marriage is not merely tolerated, but celebrated and promoted. Anyone who dares to speak out against such foolishnessis ridiculed much more vigourously than anythingTodd is enduring.

    Child molesters in Canada actually receive more protection than the children they molest. In the news now is the mind-boggling story of a pervert named Sylvain Veilleux, who has been convicted of sexually assaulting a young woman over a four-year period. Veilleux decided thathe is really a woman!

    Canada’s much abused public health system paidfor counselling and hormone therapy that has been so “successful” that “Tania” Veilleux is now officially recognised as a “woman” by the Registrar of Civil Status of Quebec.

    But “Tania” still has “her” penis, and was allowedto spend “her” pre-sentence time in a Quebec provincial prison for women, causing much distress for the realwomen in that jail.

    However, because the 40-month sentence for sexual assault must be served in a federal prison, federal officials are insisting that a person with a penis must go to a men’s prison. The looney left liberals (LLLs) who have pushed Canada down the slippery slope are outraged that “Tania”is being treated so harshly.

    Given the nature of men’s prisons, “she” must be keptin solitary confinement to protect her from sexual assaultby other inmates. Instead, the LLLs are demandinga separate prison for “transgendered” people likeSylvain Veilleux.

    What does this have to do with our Todd? I respectfully submit that Canada’s Parliament lost its moral compass when it allowed hypocrisy to run rampant in Ottawa.

    I cite the example of a man named Lynn Myers, who was the Liberal MP for my Canadian constituency for a decade. Myers was despised by most of his colleagues in his own Liberal Party.

    The exception was none other than the prime minister himself, Jean Chretien, who gave Myers the dirty jobsto do (that earned him the enmity of his colleagues,but also gave him a huge campaign fund that made itvery easy for him to win re-election).

    In his constituency, Myers advertised himself asa “family farmer” – but, in fact, had neither a family nora farm. He pretended to live a straight life in his constituency, and was adored by mothers and grandmothers as he literally kissed babies to win votes.

    However, when Myers was 300 miles away in Ottawa,he flagrantly practised the homosexual lifestyle. He didn’t mind being seen in public with other men in Ottawa.

    Attacking Christianity

    During the 2004 election campaign, his principal opponent was Frank Luellau, the executive director of the Canadian Council of Christian Charities. This excellentman was ridiculed nationally when the Liberal campaignof Myers made public the fact that the Christian organisation had a policy on how to deal with employees who were found to be practising homosexuals. (In Canada,it is widely believed that only a bigot would dareto “counsel” homosexuals to cool their activity.)

    Myers easily won re-election in left-liberal-looney Canada, because his opponent was portrayed as an intolerant person who would “shove Christianity down the throats of Canadians” if he were elected to Parliament. Myers finally lost his seat in 2006, when there wasa national swing against his Liberal Party.

    Devastated that he had lost his position of prestigeand power, and lacking a real family to support himand provide him with useful activity, Myers tried to killhimself – by driving head-on into an oncoming vehicle.

    By the grace of God, both drivers survived. Myers was merely fined and had his driver’s licence taken away.

    Most voters in Barbados, as in Canada, want to be represented in Parliament by people like themselves.

    Voters have a right to know if candidates are pretending to be straight but actually have other personal preferences. Otherwise, the slippery slope awaits.

    * Bob Verdun formerly owned a newspaper companyin Canada, but is now well settled in Barbados and enjoying the strong Christian commitment of this island.

    | PRINTER FRIENDLY FORMAT | EMAIL STORY

    http://www.nationnews.com/editorial/342045133881528.php

    ——————————————–

    I am surprise that the Nationnews printed Bob’s article. WOW! I am dying to hear MIA’S response, will she ha ha ha hha


  41. This post could not be more right!!!

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