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Marijuana: The Law And Police Enforcement In Barbados

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Submitted by Yardbroom
marijuana

I understand that the supply or smoking of marijuana   – quantity considered – is against the Law in Barbados.  To have a sensible debate about marijuana in Barbados – without the unnecessary name calling which does not advance the debate – the starting point for all law abiding members of the public “must” be the Law as it stands.There is an argument that marijuana is no more dangerous than tobacco, it could also be said that no taxes are levied on marijuana therefore there is no incentive to legalize its use.

The above points have “some” merit but they are not the concern of the Police…who are often criticized.  The function of the Police for which they are paid and have a remit, is to enforce the Law…as it stands.

It is the duty of others if they so wish to agitate for change, that is a sensible approach to take.  However trenchant our views are and perhaps justifiably so, the Law must be obeyed, in a truly democratic country where cognizance has been taken of majority opinion.  It is easy to allow allegations of misdemeanours and abuse of the law by individuals – even police officers – as an excuse for our illegal behaviour.

Even if a police officer stood on the block smoking a joint or engaged in other illegal activity that would not make make marijuana usage legal.  The focus then would be that particular officer…or if there is a need, those officers.  A group of officers however senior are not the Law, their function is to uphold the Law.  The suggestion that some officers do not uphold the law as they should, is no excuse for law abiding citizens to disregard it.   When there is no Law enforcement, anarchy prevails.

An argument is often made that if marijuana was legal there would be no problem.  That is a false logic if there was no speed limit enforcement on the roads no one would be brought before the courts for speeding, but the consequences for society could be severe.  Neither is the argument that tobacco is more dangerous that marijuana, because the “fulcrum here” is the Law as it stands not the medical issues which surround marijuana usage.

I must add, this submission has no connection with other events current in the public domain and is not intended to.  It is simply a view from a different perspective to that taken by some bloggers to defend strongly held views on the use of marijuana.  Note I have refrained from citing learned academic and medical research to either support or deny the use of marijuana, because the core of this submission is the ” Law as it stands”.

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65 responses to “Marijuana: The Law And Police Enforcement In Barbados”

  1. xenophobe chick Avatar
    xenophobe chick

    @ Yardbroom

    There are serious ommissions in your posting.

    You should have written…

    “An argument is often made that if marijuana was legal there would be no problem. That is a false logic if there was no speed limit enforcement and breathalyser on the roads no one would be brought before the courts for speeding after drinking 2 Banks, 1 Guinness, 3 Rum & Ginger, 1 Black Label and one last Guinness for the road, but the consequences for society could be severe.”

  2. The Scout Avatar
    The Scout

    I’ve hear this argument before. the bottom line is “weed” is illegal if anyone is caught with it they MUST be charged. should we also legalise car racing on the streets at night, cock and dog fighting, prostitution, all these things are happening for years but they are ALL illegal. Then allow the ZR and Mini -Bus drivers do as they like. This country would be heading for pure problems. The real problem is this society has no respect for law and order.

  3. Green Monkey Avatar
    Green Monkey

    Just came across this a few days ago:

    Dying to Get High: Marijuana as Medicine (New York University Press, 2008) is an important and accessible book — not heavy on academic jargon, but rather lively and engaging, like a true detective novel — with a broad appeal to those interested in the medical potential of cannabis, an end to the drug war, and grass roots activism. I asked the co-authors how working on the book changed them.

    WENDY CHAPKIS: “I certainly was one of those people who thought that ‘medical marijuana’ was probably mostly a way for Americans to get around ridiculously punitive drug laws. It seemed like a reasonable strategy to me. But the very first time I walked into a WAMM [WoMen’s Alliance for Medical Marijuana] membership meeting, looked around the room and saw people who were ghostly white and frail, people in wheelchairs, people huddled in small groups talking about a WAMM member who needed round the clock care, I realized that medical marijuana was no ‘ruse.’ These were very ill people. And, as I started doing interviews, the stories of the medicinal properties of pot blew me away.

    “I wasn’t the only one surprised to discover that marijuana did in fact have therapeutic effects. Many patients were equally astonished. Like me, they had been recreational users who appreciated the pleasurable effects of marijuana and were suspicious of the claim that the herb was medicine. Then they started chemotherapy, for example, found themselves fighting off non-stop nausea, took a hit and the nausea disappeared. Or they had intolerable nerve pain from multiple sclerosis, AIDS, or post-polio syndrome, used some cannabis tincture and the pain quieted down. It was funny how surprised we all were that it really worked.

    http://www.realitysandwich.com/side_effects_medical_marijuana

    SANTA FE, N.M. – Democratic Gov. Bill Richardson, poised to sign a bill making New Mexico the 12th state to legalize medical marijuana, said Thursday he realizes his action could become an issue in the presidential race.

    “So what if it’s risky? It’s the right thing to do,” said Richardson, one of the candidates in the crowded 2008 field. “What we’re talking about is 160 people in deep pain. It only affects them.”

    The legislation would create a program under which some patients – with a doctor’s recommendation – could use marijuana provided by the state health department. Lawmakers approved the bill Wednesday. The governor is expected to sign it in the next few weeks.

    SNIP

    Richardson said he has been asked about the issue by only a few voters while campaigning in Iowa. He said the White House had urged him not to sign the bill.

    “I don’t see it as being a big issue,” he said. “This is for medicinal purpose, for … people that are suffering. My God, let’s be reasonable,” he said.

    The federal government declares marijuana an illegal controlled substance with no medical value.

    A federal appeals court in San Francisco ruled on Wednesday that a woman whose doctor says marijuana is the only medicine keeping her alive can face federal prosecution on drug charges.

    The Supreme Court ruled against the woman two years ago, saying medical marijuana users and their suppliers could be prosecuted for breaching federal drug laws even if they lived in a state such as California where medical pot is legal.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17643246

  4. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    Wow ….what a topic!!

    My 2 cents worth….http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/12/22/whyIsMarijuanaIllegal.html

  5. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    …http://www.blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/12/22/whyIsMarijuanaIllegal.html

  6. X Avatar
    X

    I wonder what the PM’s views are given the 2 bingie dreads he cruises with?

  7. Bob Marley Avatar
    Bob Marley

    Scoute
    Hey, hey … Don’t knock the prostitutes.

    Technician
    People heap scorn of politicians. I heap scorn on yellow journalists like William Randolf Hearst and Market Vendor and company. These news people form and bend public opinion without shame and for a price.

  8. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    David

    My first problem with the law in a deomcracy is that, first, the law must be democratic. Too many undemocratic laws have been inherited, many of which were made to ensure that the poor remain poor and the rich remain rich.

    Many laws such as the Vagrancy Act had to be repealed because that law in particular runs counter to the concept of democracy.

    You cannot deny that law comes into disrepute.
    1. If sufficient people do not adhere to a particular law, then that law is said to be in disrepute;
    2. It may be outrageous to enforce an out moded law.
    3. If the Police do not consider a particular act to be a crime, they will be soft on it and once people get away with it the law is then in disrepute.

    The questions therefore become: what is the law? How is it to be applied? What is good law? Finally, who determines all of these?

    The bottom line! All laws should be democratically made and applied. Otherwise we do not live in a democracy and should stop saying so. Let the people prevail and not the colonial masters. Remember the words of the Rt. Excellent Errol Barrow: “Give us the political Kingdom”… and all else will be added. We have it! We have no excuse!

  9. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    The problem with laws that run into disrepute is that once one law runs into disrepute, this opens the door for others to follow. Experts in law will tell you that it is important to keep laws from running into disrepute.

    It would therefore follow that making good law is essential and laws made in a democratic way is an ideal process of making good law. Citizens are more likely to follow the laws they agree with and/or help to implement, than those imposed upon them.

  10. Bob Marley Avatar
    Bob Marley

    Boy if me an’ Pete didn’t have nah sensamania we woulda draw nuff blanks, perpetual writers’ block… blaad claat

  11. David Avatar
    David

    Brother ROK we are singing from the same song sheet. Wonder which Attorney General will show some leadership bu doing an audit of our laws on the books with a view to informing discussion to determine relevance to modern society.

  12. PiedPiper Avatar
    PiedPiper

    Here in Canada, maryjane possession is virtually a non-issue and the Police only focus on major suppliers and grow-ops which seem to be popping up everywhere……easy money. It seems somewhat ridiculous to me that personal possession and use is ok but supplying is not.
    I will take a lot of flack for saying this but fortunately I don’t give a rat’s a**. All those who think that weed is non-addictive and is somehow “natural” because it is a plant are just fooling themselves. Weed is very psychologically addictive much the same as alcohol. While I have never been a user of pot, I have a couple of friends who have been habitual users for years and have been witness to what happens when they are not able to obtain it. They are unable to sleep, get stressed out because they are not accustomed to having to deal with life in an unmedicated state. They will throw away their self respect and beg the supplier to “front” them some until they have money. Some of them have been smoking pot for so long they have no clue what life without it is like.
    But here is the problem as I see it, alcohol is sanctioned and legal and for the most part, accepted by most. It is hypocritical for the authorities to impose sanctions on pot smokers while alcohol is socially acceptable. Alcohol has a far larger social impact than pot does. Think of the family violence and criminal activity that can be directly connected to alcohol abuse.
    Unfortunately, there will always be people who will choose to seek an alternate state of reality because they simply can’t deal with the stresses of life as we know it.

  13. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Pied Piper,

    There is a great difference between use and abuse; moderation. Everything in moderation; variety is the spice of life. The problem with alcohol is abuse and it is easier to abuse alcohol than it is to abuse cannabis.

    If cannabis was the preferred vice and legal, less people would drink alcohol, there would be less drunk driving and less people making a nusiance of themselves. Less domestic violence and for sure very little people in jail.

    As a tourist destination, Barbados would become more popular and more wealth would be generated from agriculture.

    Now, we cannot deny that rum has attracted many tourists here, so what is wrong with changing the crop? Who will stop us from legalising or decriminalising Cannabis? The USA, the UK? Will the rest of the world gang up on little Barbados? Peoples, the Emperor is naked.

    I risk to bet that the rest of the world would join Barbados: less resources (dead money) to the Police to fight something that may well be better for the society; less criminalising of our own people, over what? A less deviant society; a dismantling of the drug cartels; less guns.

    There is no doubt that of all the illicit drugs, black people prefer cannabis and many, if they could get cannabis without risking incarceration, would cut out the cocaine.

    Finally, we would better be able to control access to this drug by children, but most of all, think of the amount of jobs this crop would create and the amount of small farmers that could benefit.

    I think it is worth considering, don’t you?

  14. PiedPiper Avatar
    PiedPiper

    @ROK
    No, I do not, because one needs to look at the root causes of why some people find it necessary to “medicate” themselves and how it impacts on those who must deal with them daily such as family and their employers. Life is full of trials and many do not get dealt a “good hand”. I do not pretend to be a pychologist but I question why it is that some of us are able to rise above life’s challenges and others seek to deaden that which is painful to deal with. I do not think that the answer lies in substance abuse of any kind. When you think of it in the context of an entire lifespan, the individual who does not confront and lay to rest whatever unfairness that they have experienced, what quality of life have they had when the only solution for them is to seek oblivion through daily substance abuse?

  15. Bob Marley Avatar
    Bob Marley

    But PiedPiper
    What do you say to people like me and Pete and Elton and James and Samuel J and Barry and Gabby?

    And then what about people like Hillary and Bill and Tony?

    I t’ink Owen belong to anotha crowd, but, but, wha’ you tink ’bout he?

  16. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    I know I am going to get some licks on this …..but my back broad…..

    I hate to hear people who have never ever smoked a joint, talking with any authority on this subject.
    Third hand experiences being passed on as gospel is not the way to go. It is always …a friend told me or …a friend of mine once said or did….cut the crap please.

  17. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    Techy
    Somebody jus’ tell me that if I fall from a building that is anymore than five stories tall, I will have absolutely no chance of surviving. Shite man that is second hand talk but I gun pass it on to the nex’ person I see and that gun mek it third hand and see if they “fall fa it”.

  18. Yardbroom Avatar
    Yardbroom

    Technician
    I have never smoked a joint – never felt inclined to – but don’t read too much into that, I don’t smoke tobacco either.
    I certainly am no authority on Marijuana – and make no such claim – the submission was about the “Law”.

    Generally I try as best as I can to be a law abiding person, that means obeying the Laws I disagree with, until they are changed. The above comment is “general” in nature as certainly not a criticism of you.

    This remark is not addressed to you…but I fail to see how colonialism or colour can be used in this debate: in a Democratic country, with a majority black Government and majority black population…perhaps I am missing something.

    Or could it be that some use the colonial past or colour; as a refuge to garner support in any contentious discussion.

  19. David Avatar
    David

    It was not unusual for many of our leaders while at University to have experimented with the weed. What made them do it?

  20. Yardbroom Avatar
    Yardbroom

    David
    This is just an “opinion” but at University students are expected to hold certain political opinions – often to the left – dress a certain way …and so on and to be honest life is easier if you are part of the crowd, but there is no compulsion. However, most “experiment” then move on with their adult lives away from University. Among the general population Marijuana is a “permanent” feature for “some people”, sometimes the most important aspect…not a criticism just an observation.

  21. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    David,
    You might not know this but if properly timed man the little help will have you ace any paper with ease.

  22. PiedPiper Avatar
    PiedPiper

    @ROK: Are you or for that matter anyone able to determine what constitutes recreational use of pot and when it becomes an all consuming need? Is it once a day or only on weekends or is it all day, every day? Is it when you will shirk off your other responsibilities i.e. paying your bills or putting food on the table for your children in order to buy your “baggie”. I spoke of two friends who, in my opinion, abuse pot to the extent that they are crawling out of their skin at the thought of not having their psychological fix. I have seen them take their last $100.00 with no food in the house and the collection agencies phoning them non stop for not honouring their financial commitments all for the sake of pot. I am not saying that all but a goodly number of those who lose themselves in a pot induced haze, live from moment to moment and never make plans for the future and simply avoid all responsibility.
    At what point do individuals “tip” from recreational use to full time “got to have it like water”?

  23. Green Monkey Avatar
    Green Monkey

    OTTAWA – Researchers say they have located the world’s oldest stash of marijuana, in a tomb in a remote part of China.

    The cache of cannabis is about 2,700 years old and was clearly “cultivated for psychoactive purposes,” rather than as fibre for clothing or as food, says a research paper in the Journal of Experimental Botany.

    The 789 grams of dried cannabis was buried alongside a light-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian man, likely a shaman of the Gushi culture, near Turpan in northwestern China.

    The extremely dry conditions and alkaline soil acted as preservatives, allowing a team of scientists to carefully analyze the stash, which still looked green though it had lost its distinctive odour.

    “To our knowledge, these investigations provide the oldest documentation of cannabis as a pharmacologically active agent,” says the newly published paper, whose lead author was American neurologist Dr. Ethan B. Russo.

    Remnants of cannabis have been found in ancient Egypt and other sites, and the substance has been referred to by authors such as the Greek historian Herodotus. But the tomb stash is the oldest so far that could be thoroughly tested for its properties.

    The 18 researchers, most of them based in China, subjected the cannabis to a battery of tests, including carbon dating and genetic analysis. Scientists also tried to germinate 100 of the seeds found in the cache, without success.

    The marijuana was found to have a relatively high content of THC, the main active ingredient in cannabis, but the sample was too old to determine a precise percentage.

    http://www.torontosun.com/news/weird/2008/11/27/7557641.html

  24. Lee Avatar
    Lee

    I have a little experience with cannabis use that may be relevant here. I have been smoking almost daily for about fifteen years now (not always to get stoned but just a pinch to relax and make sitcoms a little funnier or discovery channel a bit more interesting) and have yet to vomit or wake up with a headache. I worried once or twice that I or a friend might overdose (because of the quantities involved sometimes) but I did some research and have yet to uncover any evidence that anyone , anywhere , in the entire history of planet earth has ever overdosed on cannabis. If anyone knows different please speak up. I used to worry because after all it’s smoking (cancer?) but one morning I saw an article online (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729_pf.html) and did more research and apparently it has been suspected since the 70’s that cannabis did not cause cancer (reputedly by no less than a commission that Richard Nixon had set up and then disbanded because he didn’t like their findings). Now if alcohol which thousands around the globe die from (that’s poisoning alone not to mention the long-term health complications from consistent abuse) is legal why am i not supposed to smoke a joint? I wouldn’t be arrested if I sat on the corner and tried to drink a gallon-bottle by my self. Why should I have to be nervous when a police officer walks by when I’m at the bus-stop? How come I can smoke ten cartons of cigarettes without worrying about arrest even though tobacco is a proven carcinogen? More people die from aspirin and other products (some highly addictive and/or extremely dangerous) made by ‘reputable’ pharmaceutical companies in a single year than have ever died or ever will die from cannabis. I’m good at my job , all my bills get paid , my son never goes hungry or barefoot. Any harm done , and appears to be very little if any ? is harm only to me.

    P.S.
    interesting how the U.S. (the main force behind cannabis prohibition worldwide) allows one of their pharmaceutical companies to manufacture a capsule which contains 100% THC but we common citizens aren’t supposed to ingest the plant it’s made from which contains on average 5% to 9% THC.

  25. Tourism Monkey Avatar
    Tourism Monkey

    This is all well and good but there is the talk in certain circles that some people are pre-disposed to becoming addicted.

    I’ve seen this in the cases of 3 close people to myself.

    2 family members and one very good friend each went their individual paths that all started with weed. One left her husband and child and roams the streets selling herself for some weed. Another became a recluse and eventually stabbed another family member after a “meditation” and the final one got divorced, quit their job, became homeless and is now a paro in a popular tourist area.

    All because of weed….

    Prior to this, none of these people had bad lives and none of them did any other drug other than marijuana which is why I have never and will never even try it.

  26. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    Right so it is a half bad law. How do you respond to laws that are questionable? How do you get them reconsidered?
    Marijuana usage, gender biased anal sex laws, gender biased laws on prostitution, seat belt law. The last administration was considering making it a crime to operate a weed wacker (trimmer) without goggles. In America it is a serious crime to a say, just say that you plan to kill a president.

  27. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Pied Piper

    You would like to rationalise life with your limited objectivity and logic. As a social scientist I can tell you this is not possible. We have not come to know sufficient about man. We know much of the body, but what about the mind; not to mention the spirit?

    Marijuana, coca and opium among other mind transforming plants, are part of this creation. Question why God put them among us? You would be surprised to know that some people are naturally high all their lives; no marijuana, no cocaine, no opium, nothing.

    Timothy Callendar once told me of getting high from eating fruit. You ever wonder what is niggeritis? You are not tired. You eat. Then you want to sleep.

    Neither do I understand the argument about those people who buy pot with their last $100. That is a joke. No marijauna smoker will buy their last $100 in smoke. That is another joke.

    Your frineds all had problems that you knew nothing about. I have never seen or heard a woman sell her body for marijuana, it is just not addictive. Your friends sound like crackheads and not marijuana smokers. They would buy their last $100 in crack; for sure.

    There is a sense of falsehood about the so-called gateway drugs. Any person who starts with rum or marijuana and move on to more potent mind altering drugs was destined to do so. I believe that every human being has their own tolerance level.

    I will tell you this and it has to do with chemical balance of the body and mind. I once had a frined that was the most friendly, helpful and kind human being. When he drank he was the opposite and his behaviour would always end up embarrassing his friends and himself in the process; stumbling all over the place, cursing, and end up on the ground sleeping.

    One day, one of his friends decided to introduce him to Marijuana, because it seemed that he just liked to get high. After smoking the marijuana (it took some persuasion) we saw a man transformed. To cut a long story, he never went back to drinking alcohol and eventually stopped smoking the marijuana.

    When you say one, you can’t say all. You are only condemning Marijuana because it is illegal and because you may have a personal bias based on a lot of brain washing, but you are not confronting the facts.

    1. Man will get high, even if it is off glue;
    2. Not everybody can indulge in dry talk;
    3. Recreation means many things to many people;
    4. Man did not make marijuana and it is less harmful than the ones being man-made but forced on us.
    5. A cigarrette smoker consumes far more smoke than a marijuana smoker and the latter runs a miniscule risk of developing cancer.
    6. What is the real bill for tobacco and alcohol consumption? As apposed to marijuana which will bring wealth, better health and less violence???
    7. Marijuana will replace both these drugs and is quite capable of replacing any jobs lost (and much more new jobs), by the total abandonment of cigarettes and alcohol.

  28. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Tourism Monkey,

    I think I got mixed up a bit in my last post. It is your friends that have serious problems too. No smoker sells their body for marijuana, it is just not that compulsive. They would do it for the money though and so they would get much more than a smoke. To sell your body for marijuana would be to sell your body cheap. Don’t let anybody hear you say that. Laughter would erupt. That is like selling your body for a chocolate and the chocolate could very well cost more than the marijauna.

    The thing is so cheap and the smoker needs so little to get high; that does not make sense. If buying marijuana stops anybody from paying bills, it is that their only income is probably as little as $5 every two days.

    Reel and come again. Check Lee’s contribution above.

  29. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Pied Piper,

    Why all of a sudden you want to know what level of intake constitutes recreational levels? You were not asking that question about alcohol and cigarettes. Start there first. You seem to be assuming that there is some comfort to the use of alcohol and cigarettes and other man made legal drugs and that Marijuana (God made) has to be suspect. man is more than God?

    Reel and come again.

  30. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    Hmmm……..interesting post by ROK.

    Made me remember a bumper sticker I once saw…..God made weed, man made drugs…..who should we trust?

  31. PiedPiper Avatar
    PiedPiper

    ROK you can’t win an arguement by misquoting what others have said or by implying that others are lying. I was not the one that posted the comment that suggested a woman would sell her body to get money for pot. I, too, find this highly unlikely. However, I can tell you with absolute 100% certainty that I have two friends who have in FACT sacrificed their self respect and their last bit of money to purchase pot.
    The one friend, in fact, asked her supplier to “front” her $100.00 worth with the promise to pay him later. Later never arrived and the supplier was looking to kick her ass. This same woman was fired from her job as an accountant because she was always stoned on the job and her employers noticed that her behavior was odd, that she chronically late for work and always disappearing.
    I can take muh licks ROK but someone accuse me of lying……THAT I will not take. And where exactly have I assumed anything about alcohol, cigarettes or any other man-made drug?? Quite the contrary, I have linked alcohol and pot abuse in my first post on this subject and stated that it is unfortuanate that society seems to far more readily accept alcohol abuse.
    I do not compromise my beliefs for anyone ROK and I will continue to tell those that indulge daily in smoking pot that they are only fooling themselves.

  32. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Man ROK since my departure you and few others have run amok in here with unhinged general arguments.

    …The topic is Marijuana and the law, yet you decide to focus on good laws and bad laws. Is the prohibition on marijuana in Barbados a good law or a bad law?

    ROK you also said “There is a great difference between use and abuse; moderation. Everything in moderation; variety is the spice of life.

    how is this applied to tetrahydrocannabinol which is the active ingredient in marijuana and would be found in variant strengths from plant to plant? When a user lights up a spliff what precautions have they took to ensure the strength of the active ingredient is at a level so as not to engage in excessive usage?

    Herb —THC= C21H30O2

    Rum/spirits —- Ethenol = C2H5OH

    Cigarettes—–nicotine = C10H14N2

    …are all psychotropic substances, and to attempt negative and positive distinctions between them base on which occurs naturally and which is manufactured is silly.

  33. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    PiedPiper you have to understand that most Barbadians are linear thinkers. David suggested to someone in a previous post thath this might be their approach.

    http://bajan.wordpress.com/2008/11/23/ricky-singh-immigration-guyana/#comment-45452

    It is the stock n trade of linear thinkers to unfairly attribute arguments and opionions to someone they are debating as if said arguments and opionions were stated by that person.

    A definition:

    Linear Thinking
    To continue to look at something from one point of view. To take information or observations from one situation, place this data in another situation (usually later), and make a conclusion in the later situation.

  34. Green Monkey Avatar
    Green Monkey

    U.S. war on drugs has failed, report says Updated at 2:32 AM

    Source: Los Angeles Times

    The United States’ war on drugs has failed and will continue to do so as long as it emphasizes law enforcement and neglects the problem of consumption, a Washington think tank (Brookings’ Partnership for the Americas Commission) says in a report co-chaired by a former president of Mexico.

    The former president, Ernesto Zedillo, in an interview, called for a major rethinking of U.S. policy, which he said has been “asymmetrical” in demanding that countries such as Mexico stanch the flow of drugs northward, without successful efforts to stop the flow of guns south. In addition to disrupting drug-smuggling routes, eradicating crops and prosecuting dealers, the U.S. must confront the public health issue that large-scale consumption poses, he said.

    Zedillo cited skyrocketing violence in his own country as an example of the damage done by these policies. More than 4,000 people have been killed in Mexico this year in drug-related warfare between government troops and traffickers, and among rival drug gangs. Many of the weapons confiscated in raids and shootouts came from the U.S….

    Contrary to government claims, the use of heroin and cocaine in the U.S. has not declined significantly, the report says, and the use of methamphetamine is spreading. Falling street prices suggest that the supply of narcotics has not declined noticeably, and U.S. prevention and treatment programs are woefully underfunded, the study says. “Current U.S. counter- narcotics policies are failing by most objective standards,” the report says. “The only long-run solution to the problem of illegal narcotics is to reduce the demand for drugs in the major consuming countries, including the United States.”…

    ***

    The report urges the U.S. to take responsibility for stemming the transport of an estimated 2,000 guns a day across the border; to expand drug prevention programs in schools and redirect anti-drug messages to younger people by emphasizing cosmetic damage as well as health risks; and to greatly enhance drug courts, a system that incorporates treatment into prosecution….

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102×3621135

  35. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    ROK said:

    Marijuana, coca and opium among other mind transforming plants, are part of this creation. Question why God put them among us?

    ————————————
    Nicotine is an alkaloid found in the nightshade family of plants (Solanaceae) which constitutes approximately 0.6–3.0% of dry weight of tobacco,[1][2] with biosynthesis taking place in the roots, and accumulating in the leaves. It functions as an antiherbivore chemical with particular specificity to insects; therefore nicotine was widely used as an insecticide in the past, and currently nicotine analogs such as imidacloprid continue to be widely used.

  36. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @Adrian Hinds: “It is the stock n trade of linear thinkers to unfairly attribute arguments and opionions to someone they are debating as if said arguments and opionions were stated by that person.

    Welcome back. Truly.

  37. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Adrian Hinds

    Really, you are not adding to the debate with your chemistry. However they are made up we are speaking of the effects on human beings and the resultant impact on society. It is not the carbon or the hydrogen or the oxygen but how they are made up and the resultant reaction/potency.

    All foods have some form of protein. We eat meat because we say there is more protein there than in vegetables or rice. Oranges have in more vitamin c but not that others don’t have it. This has to do with a concentrated amounts.

    So what the foods have in them, their chemical make up is not the point here. A nutritionist will point to the best sources of vitamins, etc. in foods in order to feed the body with additional substances to help it.

    What do you mean I have been running amock? You don’t make such a terrible difference as to how I argue or present any facts here. All you doing right now is putting me to work a little harder because you trying to pull a spoke from a wheel. Or show off that you read a bit of chemistry.

    I want you to use the chemistry to prove that Alcohol don’t get you drunk and that cigarette smoking don’t give you cancer. While you at it, prove that a man will consume more cannabis than cigarettes in a lifetime of smoking.

  38. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Well Pied Piper

    I had to re-read my post because I don’t see where I called you a liar. I don’t call people those kinds of names. I may say you were mistaken, which is quite different to say you are lying because lying means that you know the facts and deliberately manipulate them. When I say you were mistaken then I mean that you were probably not in possession of all the facts.

    If I feel any stronger I may tell you that I don’t like your lying ways, but I will never call you a liar. Check again. If you still insist that I called you a liar I may tell you that you remind me of my friend’s ex-wife; a stranger to the truth.

    If you prove that I called you a liar, I am willing to take back all that I said and concede the point.

  39. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    If I could get back to the point under consideration, I would like to ask the question, does the punishment fit the crime? Is the effort by Police to much considering the little harm done by the use of the plant itself?

    Somewhere in your law books you will find a discourse on crime and punishment. One of the theories of good law is that the punishment must fit the mischief; that the punishment can’t be so harsh as to inflict on the perpetrator, sanctions that are way out of proportion to the crime.

    This was one of the arguments used to decriminalise homosexuality between two consenting adults. The question here moves a bit further to inquire into the extent that the state should become involved in the daily lives of its citizens?

    The smoking of marijuana can be mainly considered an act against oneself. While this may be so for other substances, and may be an argument for them too, I distinguish Marijuana from them by the fact that it grows naturally while all the rest are man-made and dangerous not just to the person but to society. Marijuana does not extend there at all.

    If however, the mischief is any act against society under the influence, then that part should be against the law. Don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater.

    Those people who chew the Coca leaf or smoke or chew the opium leaf in their natural forms, did not become addicted. They used it for a purpose. So too, marijuana. From the time you start to tamper with it to extract their potencies, you have problems. It was made to use in its natural state.

    I could just imagine Christ on this subject when he returns. This is for the Christians and we who say we are a christian-minded society. Hear Christ:

    “You could imagine that my Father gave man the opium plant, the coca plant and the marijuana plant for their pleasure, and they took them and corrupted them and then outlawed to the rest of mankind, the very plants given by the hand of God, while selling their corruption to other men as legal substances?”

  40. PiedPiper Avatar
    PiedPiper

    “Neither do I understand the argument about those people who buy pot with their last $100. That is a joke. No marijauna smoker will buy their last $100 in smoke. That is another joke.”

    Hmmmm…..let me see……you are right you did not call me a liar….you said “that is a joke” and with infinite arrogance and and absolute certainty that “no marijuana smoker will buy their last $100.00 in smoke”.
    You have made a blanket statement that pot is not addictive. There are 1000s if not 10,000s of scientists, socialogists and drug counsellors that will disagree with your statment and produce scrientific studdies to support their positions.
    I see you using the same old lame statements that most pot smokers make in order to justify their habit and it is all scientifically incorrect. The last research report which was only issued several months ago stated that long term users of marijuana develop “pot psychosis” in which they become paranoid, lose cognitive function and develop impaired recall ( in other words, they can’t remember jacks***).

  41. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    ROK // November 28, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    Adrian Hinds

    Really, you are not adding to the debate with your chemistry. However they are made up we are speaking of the effects on human beings and the resultant impact on society. It is not the carbon or the hydrogen or the oxygen but how they are made up and the resultant reaction/potency.

    ===========================
    Are you serious ROK? you attempt to dismiss my contribution, with a declaration, absent of proof, yet concede that how the substances are made up results in there reaction and potentcy. Is’nt the chemical formula the very core of how they are made up and from which they derived their characteristics? i.e. reactions and potentcy?

    Hope you are aware that what makes marijuana marijuana can be manufactured as well. so much for your “natural” occuring defense.

    I have to my satisfaction, by using the chemical structure of the active ingredient in cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and cannabis, demonstrated they are linked by the results attained when consumed by humans. All three substances have some form of prohibition attached to them.

    …..Yardbroom’s article sought to deal with marijuana as an illegal susbstance. He narrowed the debate by not allowing the various argument that the drug, should be legalized, insisting that they are ways to change the law, other than breaking said law. You sought to deal with the almost airtight argument by starting a tangent looking at good laws and bad laws, probably with the intent to comeback and cast the current prohibition of marijuana in the bad law catorgory. My contribution is to deny you that avenue, by stating clearly what the facts are about marijuana and thereby justifying the prohibition.

    At a time when penalties and restrictions on drinking, and smoking are increasing, this is not the time to lessen the same on marijuana, they have to much in common.

  42. Bob Marley Avatar
    Bob Marley

    I sorry that Hinds come back… Blad Clat…

  43. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Adrian Hinds, you living in a dream world. There is a core of people who we say will always be in poverty that will never give up vices so long as they cannot or are not given the opportunity to realise their potentials by the society.

    I do not think you want ot feel the pinch of their anger. It is not nice and you have to live and let live. You have no control. When the US took up their citizens and hauled them off to Vietnam, they provided the recreational drugs to keep the soldiers going. They started the whole morphine, opium, LSD, etc. addiction.

    When the guys came back home injured, they pumped them with morphine and other mind altering drugs to help them cope. Our people did not officially go to war, but the war is on. The politicians want the votes from these very people.

    I don’t know how high up in the heights you live but however high, do not think that you are immune.

  44. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Hinds

    I am asserting that the chemical make-up is not the issue here. However a plant is chemically made up, the point is that it is in a stable state otherwise it could not exist.

    You may be able to put the chemicals/ingredients together ro make up something like marijuana in a lab, but it will not be marijuana and I bet it will probably be far deadlier that the real thing.

    As a scientist, you should know that what chemicals exist in a stable and balanced state naturally is not just about the chemicals it is made up of, but whatever else it is made up of to render it alive / living. The one you make in the lab will not be alive; therein lies the difference.

    You are one of these people who think you can fly in the face of the creator but I want you to render the marijuana alive as a plant when you finish make it in the lab.

  45. ROK Avatar
    ROK

    Don’t worry about Hinds, Bob. He is a detractor… and you know what? Detractors make you stronger, they give you good practice.

    I forgot to tell him that when he done making the marijuana in the lab and he can’t reder it as a plant that is alive, then he will understand what the creator has on him and over all mere mortals.

  46. Sorry for Mumbai Avatar
    Sorry for Mumbai

    ROK and Technician your silence is deafening on young Maloney ‘s diary. He appeared to be in poor mental state that fateful day. Walk us through what his diary entry meant.

  47. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    No ROK I am not in a dream world, and i will not be confuse or put of the many debate contortions you are performing in the hopes of getting beyond my points. Now when you say “PERSONS IN POVERTY WILL ALWAYS ENGAGE IN VICES” are you refering to smoking cannabis as a vice? You must be, otherwise the statement would have no bearings on what is being discuss. What makes it a vice? and what can be the benefit of either legalizing or lessening the penalties for consuming it?

    You say that i have to live and let live, that i have no control against the pinch of their anger. Would you say that this should be our approach in dealing with Cable and wireless, or Merchant high prices on retial items, or give in to the Europeans in lets say the EPA agreement????? these people wouldn’t get angry too? and let us feel the pinch of their anger?

    I don’t live in the “Heights” and certainly don’t think I am immune from the effects of alcohol or cannibis consumption. Nor do i fly in the face of the creator. The comment about the manufacture of TCH in the lab was to defuse this believe that marijuana can be legitimize against drinking alcohol or cigarettes because it occurs naturally. I will also add that the active ingredient of drinking alcohol and cigarettes do occur naturally as well. Thats why i don’t attempt to seperate them.

    I am laughing at your attempt to cast me as some anti-christ person who don’t respect or fear God. This view of “if it occurs naturally then it is ok ” is very silly. I have 10 castor oil beans for you to eat. will you? 🙂

  48. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    ROK says:

    Don’t worry about Hinds, Bob. He is a detractor… and you know what? Detractors make you stronger, they give you good practice.

    ========================

    Yuh talking to the dead! ha ha ha tell muh doah did you find you have a better conversation with Bob after consuming a good spliff?

    YOU ALSO SAID
    I am asserting that the chemical make-up is not the issue here. However a plant is chemically made up, the point is that it is in a stable state otherwise it could not exist.

    It is central and core to the issue. You cannot discuss cannabis without dicussing it’s chemical make up. Marijuana would not fill your mind if it were not for TCH. Without TCH there is no marijuana, and there would be no “high” to gain.
    Now the plant is in a stable state with TCH flowing throw it. Can a human being be said to be stable when they consume marijuana?

  49. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    Sorry for Mumbai // November 28, 2008 at 9:31 pm

    ROK and Technician your silence is deafening on young Maloney ’s diary. He appeared to be in poor mental state that fateful day. Walk us through what his diary entry meant.
    ———————————————————————————————-
    You seem to think all I have to do is blog.
    I have an 8-4:30……sometimes later job, then I have a small business to run. The little one needs QT and so do Wifey ok.
    Now, I have not seen or heard about the contents of the diary but you obviously have.
    Can you be so kind as to share with us, the contents?

  50. Technician Avatar
    Technician

    Just read the diary entry….don’t see how one could come to your conclusion …..then again I am no shrink.

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