est. 2007

Barbados Underground

Bringing News and Opinions to the People

Post Kadooment News

The BU household is suffering from post Crop Over stress. We hope the BU family can exercise patience as we rebuild to full steam. Until such time, please enjoy the tidbits of news received from our sources.

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Whose island is it?

Port St.Charles
Port St.Charles

Not content with their rape of Heywood’s beach to prevent local lads playing football there and scaring the living daylights out of a few white investors who fear black people laughing and being rambunctious the Port St. Charles gangsters have resorted to a new tactic. It’s called, “Call the police.”

As part of the Port St. Charles abomination the investors have built a secluded bar and restaurant area for the rich folk to keep very much to themselves. With a jetty ideal for local kids to jump and dive into their own Caribbean Sea. On Sunday they were doing just that and having much fun when the Port St. Charles Homeland Security goons called the police.

Of course when the ashamed policeman arrived the kids had vanished. Hey, whose island is this?

SSA Booth at Kensington Oval

Dr.Don Marshall - SSA Chairman
SSA Chairman Don Marshall

SSA Chairman Don Marshall hogged the booth for Cohobblopot – it was allotted by the NCF for Sanitation use, instead Marshall chose to host UWI pals alone, not a member of SSA Management was invited – it was verified when the spouse of an SSA employee passed by to greet Management and was shocked at not recognizing a single person in the booth and left quickly.

Cayman Islands Deputy police commissioner charged with four offenses

Deputy Commissioner Rudolph Dixon
DC Rudolph Dixon

A family member emailed us this article which reported the arrest of Deputy Police Commissioner of the Cayman Islands Rudolph Dixon. The independent investigation is being carried out by the Metropolitan Police Service. The importance of this story comes against the background of calls for independent investigations into recent events involving our own police force.

133 responses to “Post Kadooment News”

  1. The scout Avatar
    The scout

    Waiting In Vain
    The ambulance on its way for you. I hope you are ready.

  2. For God's Sake Avatar
    For God’s Sake

    Tony Hall
    Can you say anything new about the issue being discussed? Cant you see that Boobie having so much fun teasing you.
    He has already correctly pointed out that in many parts of the world, including the QEH, that renovations have occurred at hospitals while inmates were present. This is a fact. How can he agree with the shite you wrote? It is for you to admit that you are a medical illiterate, and that you don’t know anything about medicine or hospitals, and put your tail between your legs and run and hide behind the pailing like a loopey dog. Like a sardine tot retriever.
    Shut up and try to learn.
    Do as you say AGREE TO DISAGREE! AND STOP WHINNING!

  3. ganong Avatar
    ganong

    @ The scout

    Re Waiting In Vain

    All you need to do is to get 2 registerred medical practitioners to sign “papers” and you can commit him to Jenkins for 3 weeks.

    Then he can be detained there indefinitely if in the opinion of the doctors he is as mad as he sounds.

  4. Wishing In Vain Avatar
    Wishing In Vain

    It seems that your newspaper article no longer is serving the purpose it was set out to serve and you are now seeking new ways to spread your untruths, you remember the lie that exposed mottley as a compulsive digusting liar recently in the House of Assembly??

    Keep a cool tool For God’s Sake ganong, the scout, you will grow very old in the next 15 years and may even be longer if you cannot find a viable alternative for a leader.

    The Barbadian society is not ready for a vicious lesbian woman who beats her lovers to the point of sending these persons to the Hospital.

    Funny how you attempt to dismiss those that have set about correcting the wrongs that you and your party inflicted on Barbadians, rest assured your wrongs will be righted even if it means that one or two of you and your clan are sent thru the Justice system and be charged and jailed.

  5. Dr POWA POWA Avatar
    Dr POWA POWA

    WIV
    What you have to say about this article in today’s Advocate? Man it seem that the DLP in real disarray when it comes to health issues. They had no plan in their manifesto for health, and seven months later the loud mouth bumbling minister still has no plan except contradicting the PM!
    Sad SAD SADDDDDDDDDD

    http://www.barbadosadvocate.com/NewViewNewsleft.cfm?Record=36351

    Barbadians want to know

    We congratulate Dr. David Estwick this week for finally coming to the realisation that former Minister of Health, Dr. Jerome Walcott s proposal for a new general hospital for Barbados is the best solution for our tertiary health-care needs for the next 40 or so years.

    The DLP made light of our plans for a new hospital during the election, but like so many things since then, were it not for plans left behind by us in tourism, energy, agriculture, the environment, health and education, the country would be in an untenable position today. But such is the nature of politics.

    Having agreed with our proposal for a new hospital, Dr. Estwick must now get the job done. In the foregoing seven months he has made proclamations and promises, issued threats and advice, discovered plots and plans and generally upset everyone from the unions, doctors and nurses, to the SSA staff and even an overseas medical insurance broker. His ambit has been far and wide. Oh what a change from his first tour of the QEH when the staff was lined up to greet him with hugs and gift baskets.

    Say what you like, there is never a dull moment with the Doctor around, particularly when his mouth is open or if he feels he is under fire. Well welcome to the big boys club Doc. Here is where you get to play for keeps. Words hurled across the floor of Parliament from the Opposition benches don t count for anything now. You have to perform on that side, Doc.

    We are more than puzzled by a few incongruities. For months now the Minister has been vacillating on the way forward for tertiary health care for Barbadians. First there was to be a redevelopment of the QEH. The good Doctor was very shortly going to present a redevelopment plan for the QEH to Cabinet back in February. Well we don t know if the plan was presented, but we have not seen any evidence of its implementation.

    One hundred and fifty million dollars was voted for the QEH in this year s Estimates in March, when the Minister again reminded us that wrong things would be put right. By April he was telling us that no decision had been taken on whether a new hospital would be built. In May he promised that he would open a new ward by month-end to relieve some of the stress on the A&E. We are still waiting on that.

    July was notable for the public showdown between the Minister and the NUPW during the Budget Debate. But it was notable for something else. At page 49 of the Budget the Prime Minister said: In the meantime the Cabinet has agreed to the expansion of the QEH on its present site estimated to cost over $400 million and we have also begun to identify funding for this upgrade and expansion. The Prime Minister reaffirmed this belief on Brass Tacks on Sunday and threw in the Government s desire to seek private funding from foreign philanthropists and Bajans overseas.

    Yet the Minister says this week: The plan is for a new purpose-built facility & Government is selling its shares in the ICB and BNB to raise $200 million for the project and is looking to other sources for funds. Cabinet is to decide very, very, very soon on where the new hospital is to be built. This would have to mean that Cabinet has already decided that a new hospital is to be built, if all that is left for them to do is to settle on the new site.

    So which is it really? Are we getting a new hospital on a new site or are we getting a refurbished QEH? What is really happening here? Who is in charge? What did the Cabinet really decide? There can only be one Cabinet decision on this issue.
    Barbadians want to know.

  6. ganong Avatar
    ganong

    WIV

    The above report is sad neh? But BOTH SIDES of the coin must be presented, and DEALT WITH!

  7. Avatar
    Anonymous

    ————————————————————
    —– It is for you to admit that you are a medical illiterate, and that you don’t know anything about medicine or hospitals, and put your tail between your legs and run and hide behind the pailing like a loopey dog. Like a sardine tot retriever.
    ———————————————————-

    Are such comments and name calling really necessary. In the deep recesses of a human mind , can someone really think this way against another human being

    mercy me !

  8. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @David…

    I sent you (and BFP) an e-mail a short while ago.

    Could you please acknowledge receipt of same. Or, if you didn’t receive it, please let me know, and I’ll send it again (via very public channels…)

    I will give you 72 hours to act upon same. Or, I’ll take the matter into my own hands…

    Let’s leave it at that…

    Have a great weekend, everyone!

  9. David Avatar
    David

    @Chris

    We got you email and suggest that you are open to do whatever you want. On BU you are free to post on any subject. If you feel that it lends value to BU to publish the info you sent to us please go ahead.

    One other thing we don’t appreciate the ultimatum business. Do you know the tons of emails we get on a daily basis. We have appreciated your analytical contributions and look forward to more in the futute.

  10. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    @David.

    Thank you for your above.

    I had hoped that I would not have to step forward, since (as I said in an e-mail to you and BFP 2008.07.31.1315) I considered this a matter which you and BFP were better situated to manage.

    However, having said the above, I do note that the evidence available on your own site (posted by two separate “users” on 2008.07.30.1249 and 2008.07.30.1250) which I brought to your attention, has since been deleted. Nor have either you or BFP stepped forward.

    And both you and BFP keep talking about IaTL…

    If you (David) really want me to bring this forward, I will. Again, I had hoped I would not have to…

    Forgive me for the perception of the “ultimatum”. It is not intended. However, you hold a great deal of power here. As we know, with power comes responsibility.

    As they say, “Power corrupts. Ultimate power is kinda cool.”

    With absolutely no threat, intimidation or ultimatum intended or implied… *You* know what what I’m talking about here…

    Do *you* wish to bring this forward, or are you releasing me to do so?

    @David: Give me the “go”, and I’ll release what I have. Your choice…

    Kindest regards to all.

  11. Negroman Avatar
    Negroman

    I am going to make a contribution of a slightly different nature on this topic.
    I have not seen any articles on The Season of Emancipation that was integrated into Crop Over.
    Emancipation Day activities included speeches made by the Prime Minister & Minister of Culture Steve Blackett.The Prime Minister’s speech at the Emancipation Walk was hollow and lacking in substance.He identified that providing financial and other assistance for cultural & dance groups to express themselves are his party idea of a contribution. What a shame. Doesn’t he recognise that we need a powerful black nation state for the future protection of black people and the rightful place for we blacks to take in this world.Europe is strong and by extension the white states of USA & Canada because the europeans have built a strong nation state.Israel is powerful because of the same and China,India and other states are emerging as world powers because of strong nation states.We as black people are treated in the worst possible way by all the other ethnic groups because we are lacking economic,financial & military power.We cannot defend ourselves.
    Our Prime Minister if he has any vision will understand of building strategic alliances with African States & states in the Diaspora.He will understand of making some contribution to the development of a strong African State that will be powerful enough to defend the interest of black peoples.The days have long pass where we must continue to go cap in hand begging other ethnic groups for assistance.We must look after our own.Our Prime Minister is lacking in vision.He is a joker.
    Minister of Culture Steve Blackett is a major disappointment.A pea brain politician.His Emancipation Day speech was an insult and embarassment to right thinking and conscious black people.It was total nonsense.How can he compare the journey of enslaved Africans and the journey of the white slave masters as the same.Two totally different experiences.It was dealt with adequately by Kamau Brathwaite & Austin Tom Clarke in today’s nation.His foolish response was even worst.Steve Blackett I think you are out of your depth.You are a waste as a minister.Minister Blackett be more analytical and stop embarrassing black Barbadians with the nonsensical speeches you are making.Leave that to Esther Byer-Suckoo.
    The future of black people in this country is at the cross roads with the characters we have as ministers in Barbados today.

  12. Chris Halsall Avatar
    Chris Halsall

    This is what is know as a “ping”…

    It is a test. An empirical experiment… A proof…

    Isn’t life beautiful?

    Please refer to our earlier response to you.

    David

  13. Pat Avatar
    Pat

    Re: QEH

    From reading the above, by medical, engineering and other posters, I think I may have a small grasp of the core problem – Management.

    l. I would suggest a qualified Hospital Administrator to run the daily operations of the hospital, who would be supported by a highly qualified staff of economist, sociologists, psychologists, statatisticians, etc. to develop relevant operational policies for consideration by the Minster of Health, to improve the QEH.

    2. I would also suggest a highly creative, motivated, people person, a qualified Dr. like Boobie, GP, or even Powa Wowa, to be chief of Medical Staff. He would oversee all Medical staff and receive input from them re the scientific needs of said QEH. He would report to the Hospital Board, while the Administrator would report to the Minister.

    3. The Hospital Administrator and the Chief of Medical Staff, would appoint people of their own choosing to work together on an improvement committe, to brainstorm ideas and elicit input from all quarters, including cleaning staff, maintenance engineers, etc.

    Then, maybe, Bajans will get the smooth delivery of QUALITY medical care they deserve, by medical personnel who enjoy working at QEH.

    We have a young lady up here who got her Masters in Hospital Adminstration a few years ago and has flown up the ranks, now working as assistant to the CEO of one of the Province’s largest Hospitals. She is innovative and has the uncanny ability to think outside the box. She is personable and can converse with anyone and make them feel comfortable. She is Bajan and in five years I see her managing one of our five hospitals here in this city, or one elsewhere.

  14. David Avatar
    David

    @Pat
    Thanks for your suggestion which we will leave to the experts to explore. You should note that the QEH will represent the biggest challenge to the Thompson government as it has for the previous government. Contrary to earlier contributions on BU, the QEH problem is very complicated. At the centre of the problem is the civil service culture which has been adroitly managed over the years by the three unions who have an interest at that health institution.

  15. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Pat you have an interesting suggestion, but like the others your focus is still on the QEH.

    My focus remains on total healthcare. Until a holistic view of health in Barbados is grasped, our health care will not improve. We can build as many hospitals as we wish.

    Pat, I think that all these economist, sociologists, psychologists, statatisticians, etc will only compound the current complexity. When I was a medical student and intern at QEH, the hospital functioned quite well without this army of non medical personnel. Other hospitals function well with out this invasion of medical non participants.

    I can just see the economists arguing about why the surgeons need so many types of sutures, or instruments.

    I can just see your highly qualified staff of economist, sociologists, psychologists, statatisticians, etc. sitting to develop operational policies as to how the doctors should run the out patients clinics, and how the surgeons will schedule elective surgery. I can also just see them choosing not to do surgery at nights when on call as they do now, so that there is time to do elective surgery the next day. I can see a lot more elective surgery being put back.

    It is noteworthy that you do not mention nurses, doctors, Xray technicians and the other allied health workers that actually make the hospital function.

    You further denigrate the doctor as head of the health team by having your chief of Medical Staff report to the Hospital Board – a set of beurocrats, nit pickers and medical illiterates.

    Thanks for suggesting that I should have such a lofty post as chief of Medical Staff. But the Medical staff in each Department are well supervised by the Heads of each department, and each member of the teams from the interns up are quite aware of the scientific needs of their individual departments.

    Your third suggestion has the most merit towards a smoother delivery of QUALITY medical care.

    You wrote ……….. The Hospital Administrator and the Chief of Medical Staff, would appoint people of their own choosing to work together on an improvement committe, to brainstorm ideas and elicit input from all quarters, including cleaning staff, maintenance engineers, etc.

    David the QEH problem NEED NOT BE very complicated.

    Just transfer all the civil servants from the QEH and you will remove the civil service culture which has been adroitly managed over the years by the three unions who have an interest at that health institution.

    THEN just as ALL the doctors at the QEH work on contract give contracts to all new workers at the QEH.

  16. Pat Avatar
    Pat

    @Georgie Porgie

    I am looking from the planning side. I am not a medical person. If you dont have the policy developers in the hospital, they will not get the exposure necessary to do proper analysis. The policy wonks will n ot decide what is purchased for the hospital. The medical staff decides and put the request to the procurement people. Who are to purchase, not argue numbers, etc.
    I think they need someone experienced in Institutional Management. No qualified Medical professional should be pushing paper.

  17. Asiba-The Buffalo Soldier-still 2 much FAT on the road Avatar
    Asiba-The Buffalo Soldier-still 2 much FAT on the road

    I agree with you Negroman

    but please give STEVE a chance

    Steve is a good boy and I like him

    When in previous posts I stated that Colonalism is responsible for all of our problems, some people scoffed at the statement but we are not going to get anywhere unless we deal with this situation

  18. Bush tea Avatar
    Bush tea

    GP

    I like you and respect your enthusiasm, however you have consistently shown how much you do NOT know about the management of complex operations.
    You sound like a Doctor who has run his own successful practice for years and who actually believes that such experience translates into the ability to manage public entities…(refer to MME comment on this earlier)

    On another point:
    There are two distinct issues here-
    1) National health management
    2) Management of the QEH

    Pat seems to be talking about the latter – You appear to be the one confusing the issues. We have a Hospital, it needs to be managed and Pat is exploring mechanisms to achieve that.

    National health care is another matter. This is an area where macro policies need to be targeted to encouraging healthy habits, reducing risks and increasing education. Obviously, it also includes planning for those that need medical services and casualty services on a MACRO level.

    A recent article in New Scientist described the unprecedented improvement in nation health in Cuba when the embargo created scarcities and forced more walking, cycling etc.

    National health management is about taking tough measures against those making profits by selling addictive diabetes sweet drinks, junk foods and poison snacks to children. It is about strong education messages being sent -including warning labels on these poison foods as is done with cigarettes.

    The problem with a strong public health approach is that there will be a strong lobby against it by those making profits by selling the poisons to the public, AND from those who make their millions by treating the preventable sickness that results from these bad habits. (…all except you GP)

  19. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Pat
    I know that you are not a medical person and that you are looking from the planning side.
    I can see that you have an analytical mind, and the ability to THINK- unlike most of the others that have posted on this issue.

    I agree with you that no qualified Medical professional should be pushing paper. But in all hospitals, Department Heads have to write reports, and submit needs etc. But I think this is what you are saying when you correctly opine that “The medical staff decides and put the request to the procurement people.”

    In my training at UCHWI & QEH the policy developers in the hospital were the doctors- certainly for medical matters, but I agree with you that there is a need for someone experienced in Institutional Management to coordinate the activities of the various non-medical components and help them to appreciate the importance of their roles to the overall function of the hospital.

    We are basically on the same page with respect to the overall function of the hospital except that there is a need to address David’s concerns about the civil servants who are controlled by their unions. But that can be sorted out quite easily.

    Fixing the hospital is not as complex as some think. It requires analysis such as you have brought to bear and a strong will to do what must be done!

  20. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    BT

    National health care is composed of private heath care and public health care. One of the roles of the Public Health Department is to engage in encouraging healthy habits, reducing risks and increasing education. This is Public Health Education This is all part of Public Health! Public Health Education is not by itself healthcare as you seem to think!

    A lot of Public Health Education is done in the Public Health or Polyclinics under the aegis of the MOH. Medical and some emergency services are also provided at these clinics. The improvement of the QEH Department is this the focal and first section of the QEH that must be improved to complement these services offered by the Public Health or Polyclinics.

    Re National health management is about taking tough measures against those making profits by selling addictive diabetes sweet drinks, junk foods and poison snacks to children. It is about strong education messages being sent -including warning labels on these poison foods as is done with cigarettes.

    The above BT is Public Health Education the job of the MOH. This is all part of Public Health!
    Much of this is done in the Public Health or Polyclinics under the aegis of the MOH already. It needs to be reinforced in schools and perhaps the church and all clubs, with the help of the ministry of Education and the GIS!

    BT you do not understand that we can only prevent a certain amount of sickness. Sickness is due to SIN and some to APOPTOSIS, i.e programmed cell death!

    It is written THE SOUL THAT SINNETH IT SHALL DIE! That is an irrefutable fact!

    This Biblical axiom is effected by the mechanism of APOPTOSIS or programmed cell death! Spend some time reading up on it online, if you can understand it. It is as fascinating as it hard to fully grasp.

  21. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    by the way BT

    I know you believe you can prevent all disease by Health Education. Pathologists know otherwise. At UWI in my time we used to memorize this nmonic for causes of disease …
    TIN CAN BED MIDI

    I cant remember what B was for

    Trauma
    Infection – Inherited
    Nutritional
    Congenital
    Autoimmune or Allergic
    Neoplastic (cancers)
    B
    Endocrine
    Drugs and other chemical substances
    Metabolic diseases and Molecular diseases
    Idiopathic (we dont know the cause)
    Degenerative D Degenerative
    Iatrogenic (disease caused by doctors and health personnel)

    You will agree many of the above can not be prevented. Hence the need for doctors- something that you apparently despise. LOL

    Here is the list from my Introduction to Pathology Lecture

    •Most injurious agents can be divided into three large categories: physical agents, chemical agents, and living agents…..
    •
    •Physical agents
    • Mechanical Trauma
    • Temperature extremes, i.e excesses of heat or cold (burns or frostbite)
    • Pressure changes- sudden changes in pressure (barotrauma)
    • Radiation -light, radiant energy
    • Electric shock -electricity

    Chemical agents
    • Poisons of exogenous origin
    • Acids/Alkalis/Alcohols
    • Cyanide, Hg, Arsenic and other poisons and toxins and pollutants like CO, asbestos
    • Drugs given as Rx
    • Any Chemical in excess (Na/K), glucose salt, water
    • Insecticides, herbicides, carbon monoxide, asbestos, alcohol, narcotics, tobacco.
    • Poisons of endogenous origin
    • uric acid in gout
    • calcium in certain bone diseases
    • glucose

    • Living Infectious agents
    • Pathogenic bacteria
    • Viruses
    • Fungi
    • Animal Parasites
    • Rickettsiae
    • Protozoa
    •
    • Immunologic Reactions
    • Anaphylaxis
    • Autoimmune disease-immune complex damage

    • Genetic Derangements
    • Chromosomal,
    • Gene Mutations
    • Congenital malformations,
    • Normal proteins (hemoglobinopathies, e.g.sickle cell anemia),
    • Enzymes (storage diseases).
    •
    • Nutritional Imbalances/ Malnutrition
    • Protein-calorie deficiencies/malnutrition
    • Vitamin deficiencies (e.g.folic acid, vitamin B-12, which impairs CNS function
    • Excess food intake (Obesity predisposes people to atherosclerosis and heart failure).
    • Starvation -Iron deficiency anemia.

  22. The scout Avatar
    The scout

    Waiting In Vain
    It seems like the two Davids are on a collison course. Estwick saying new hospital, Thompson saying Expansion of existing one. It is obvious Estwick would have to eat humble pie. I still don’t think that the scars between the two are heaied. Don’t forget Estwick was on VOB after the Thompson takeover saying he would not support him as leader. He ate humble pie then and he will eat some more now.

  23. Bush tea Avatar
    Bush tea

    GP,
    When did Bush tea ever suggest that all diseases can be prevented?

    Everyone and their cousins know that huge numbers of citizens turn up at their doctors or at hospital because of preventable situations.

    …as I pointed out, a recent article cited the case of Cuba, where the hard times associated with the US embargo resulted in a less obese population, and a fitter people who were forced to do more walking and cycling. As a result, Cuba saw drops in excess of 50% in diseases such as diabetes, cancers, etc.

    …wahloss GP! … if that happen here some of wanna docs would have to resort to buying Toyotas instead of Mercedes and BMWs…

  24. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Bush tea
    I am glad that we now seem to agree that all diseases can NOT be preventable. This makes your song about the Cuban issue a moot point!.

    I am sure that you agree too, that the role of the Public Health Department in Health Education and in providing primary and secondary care is extremely important to prevent overuse/abuse of the QEH ER department.

    I hope you can see that expanding and improving the work of the Public Health sector in primary and secondary situations should reduce the need for tertiary care at the hospital!

    I hope you can see that expanding and improving the work of the Public Health sector in the periphery is paramount in the management of health care delivery in any country because by looking after looking after primary and secondary care issues, you will often reduce tertiary care problems.

    As we speak the “mighty” USA is having great problems with the increasingly large numbers of folk arriving at and clogging up Emergency rooms all over the country for primary and secondary care that ought to take place elsewhere.

    Handling care primary and secondary care as well as the Health Education done by our Public Health Department is the BEDROCK of our Health Care System; just as it ought to be. IT CAN BE IMPROVED AT A RELATIVELY LOW COST!

    In Barbados primary and secondary care is delivered for a fee at PRIVATE FACILTIES or free at the point of delivery at tax payers expense in the Nation’s Polyclinics. IT MUST NOT ANY LONGER OCCUR AT QEH AS IT DID WHEN WE DID NOT HAVE THE POLYCLINICS.

    I hope that you can see that if primary and secondary care delivered at the Nation’s Polyclinics is improved and extended it ought to automatically make the QEH ER more efficient IMMEDIATELY & SIMULTANEOUSLY. You can be sure that at the PRIVATE FACILTIES, the entrepreneurs are trying to improve their services.

    So if we can succeed in doing just the above, 80-90 % of the sick in Barbados will be well looked after according to statistics. THEN ALL THAT REMAINS IS LOOKING AFTER THE RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER OF FOLK WHO NEED TERTIARY HOSPITAL CARE.

    A small percentage of these can pay to go to Bayview, and /or will get on the surgical lists at QEH daily anyhow or can go overseas. So all this building new hospital is addressed to look after a relatively few folk just because we wont improve care for the 80 % and because we like to be seen erecting buildings!

    I am not saying that we should not expand or renovate the hospital. Nor am I saying that we MUST not improve the delivery of hospital care. I am saying reduce the need for tertiary care by improving primary and secondary care.

    I am saying do as we all do with our personal funds, and as our poor parents taught us.- i.e PUT YOUR PRIORITIES RIGHT!

    I am saying, find the right man to coordinate primary, secondary and tertiary care in Barbados.

    I am saying that healthcare does not revolve around managing the hospital, irrespective of how much it might need managing.

    You keep harping about the relationship between hard times and the health indices in Cuba. I note that you relate that improvement in the health indices in Cuba is due to the fact that the populace are forced to exercise- they do more walking and cycling. There was a time when we had hard times in Barbados too, but then we had very few doctors, and they were not freely available to the populace…. And people died at early ages.

    You do not comment on the availability of doctors in Cuba to the populace or point out that improvement in the health indices in Cuba is due also to either Health Education or the fact that they train a very large number of doctors. These are almost as common as trees—relatively speaking.

    You keep referring to the wealth of the local doctors; an issue about which I have little interest. My riches are in heavenly places with Christ, because I currently have none on earth.

  25. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    Georgie,

    I’ve read up on this Apoptosis since you introduced me to it some months ago.
    Three questions for you.
    What is your view on delaying apoptosis through medical advances and intervention?
    Accepting death (apoptosis) as inevitable, what is your best guess of the limit to which we can continue increasing the average life span of people?
    What is your opinion on the work of gerontologists like Aubrey de Grey? http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/aubrey_de_grey_says_we_can_avoid_aging.html

  26. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Micro Mock Engineer

    Why you asking me hard challenging questions that I cant answer man? I never lick you up like how I does deal wid that cawmere boy Bush Tea!

    I am glad that I got you to read up on apoptosis. I lost all the files I was using in an attempt to master it two years ago, in preparation to teach an introductory Pathology class, and have not really looked at it since.

    To answer your questions.

    1- I really don’t know how much we can do to delay apoptosis through medical advances and intervention. After all it is programmed death.
    2- Once we accept that programmed death (apoptosis) is inevitable I doubt that we can increase the average life span of people by dealing with the issue by addressing apoptosis. But I am not sure.

    It is a relatively new and complex concept as you must have found out from your reading. I believe that we might be able to increase the average life span of people by dealing with the issue by reducing cell death by necrosis, i.e by the preventative methods that Bush Tea like to sing about.

    Then if you are looking at it from a religious point a view, you can say that we can not do much because a man’s days are numbered according to the Psalmist. Some might say that that is a defeatist view. But I personally believe that our bodies were not initially designed so that we would die. I believe that we die because we sin according to the tenets of Ezekiel 18.

    3- I am unfamiliar with the work of gerontologists like Aubrey de Grey, but will try to do your assignment of reading the link you sent ASAP.

    MME yuh brek me up this time. Murderrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

    PS
    Did you read up on the role of apoptosis genes in the causation of disease and cancer?

    I had some over simplified files and then I had some difficult ones that I was struggling to merge with the simple outlines, but was failing miserable. But then I had a computer crash, and since I had in my power point presentation enough for the medical student program, I didnt bother with it anymore.

  27. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    Yes GP, I have done some reading… but it is hard going for a simple engineer. As far as the link between apoptosis and cancer…

    … so far, the way I understand it, disease and cancer are the result of necrosis as opposed to the apparent pre-programmed cell suicide characterised by apoptosis. My fascination with apoptosis, is that I believe (ironically) that it holds the secret to curing disease and cancer. Not because it destroys otherwise healthy cells, but rather, we may be able to ‘harness’ it to destroy caner cells.

  28. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    … that last sentence should have read “cancer cells”

  29. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    … this would appear to be supported by medical research linking cancer and autoimmunity to “too little” apoptosis.

  30. Micro Mock Engineer Avatar
    Micro Mock Engineer

    I interpret necrosis to be like an external damaging forces acting on cells… the “wear and tear” of our activities. Apoptosis on the other hand seems to be some ‘mysterious’ (for now) internal program in the cell…

    Following on from the last TED link, and as we’re talking about cells, the following animation on cells is one of the most incredible and awe-inspiring things I have ever watched…

    http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/david_bolinsky_animates_a_cell.html

    BT check out the engineering in the last 3 minutes of that clip.

  31. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Micro Mock Engineer
    You say that apoptosis is hard going for a simple engineer.
    Let me let you in to a secret. It is hard going for a simple doctor too. It really is perhaps the hardest concept I have met in studying medicine.

    Necrosis is cell death due to failure of cells to adapt to injurious stimuli of any kind. You call it the “wear and tear” of our activities. That’s OK.
    Cancer is not due to necrosis, but some cancers contain necrotic or dead tissue, as occurs if the growth outstrips its blood supply. Necrosis is ALWAYS pathological.

    Apoptosis is pre-programmed cell death or cell suicide
    Apoptosis may be pathological or it may be physiological.
    Apoptosis is indeed as you say some ‘mysterious’ (for now) internal program in the cell…
    For example the male and female external genetalia develop initially along the same pathway; until some pre-programmed cell death occurs. As a result the female’s would be penis is much smaller- we call it the clitoris. The male scrotum looks like it is sewn up with the median raphe indicating the “suture line”. The female vulva does not contain none of the structures in the male scrotum, because the original cells have died. So the female vulva- the equivalent of our scrotum does not have testes, epidydymes etc.

    In our development and differentiation there has been some apoptosis so that we are not usually hermaprodites. This is physiological apoptosis. Note that otherwise healthy cells are indeed destroyed in physiological apoptosis. Another example very familiar to us is when the tadpole loses its tail to become a young frog etc. So physiological apoptosis is a common phenomenon.

    Pathological apoptosis is very highly developed in the brains of many BU posters and routinely so in politicians.

    As a engineer you are no doubt very familiar with the second law of thermodynamics, which basically points out that things tend to disorder.

    It seems that apoptosis is unlikely to destroy cancer cells, because it seems that there is an apoptosis gene that is actually involved in the causation of cancer.

    In autoimmunity the body attacks its own cells and proteins. There might very well be insufficient cell death by apoptosis which leads to the prolonged and excessive inflammatory cells that predominate in these conditions.

  32. The Devil Avatar
    The Devil

    ” As a engineer you are no doubt very familiar with the second law of thermodynamics, which basically points out that things tend to disorder.”

    really? The 2nd law speaks to an increase in entropy. The grave is a very orderly place.

  33. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    @ The Devil
    re The 2nd law speaks to an increase in entropy. The grave is a very orderly place.

    Man you got a sense of humor that only a Bajan has. I like that one bad. The grave is a very orderly place.

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