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There have been some press reports which have been targeted at BU that have appeared in several fora in the last 24 hours. We will respond in time to many of the inaccuracies which appeared in those reports. We agree that if our message is not to become distorted, our blog has a responsibility to ensure that we don’t contribute to fueling hysteria around this matter. We take this opportunity to reiterate that we strongly believe in a managed immigration policy. We also believe that the impact of multi-ethnic groups on a Black host population should be studied as part of a managed immigration policy. The BU family is aware that we are reluctant to censor, however we want solution oriented discussion. The reports over the last 24 hours should have shown how extreme comments posted on BU can be used by some to extrapolate to positions which we don’t subscribe. Please be guided accordingly.

The following is a Press Release (unedited) issued by the Guyana Consul in Barbados:

The Guyana Consulate in Barbados has dismissed a Kaiteur News news story in Guyana which intimated that last Saturday night’s shooting death of a Guyanese national and the wounding of another in an apparent bungled robbery at a Barbados bar was a premeditated anti-Guyanese attack. “The Consulate has no evidence of this. I read the item in the Guyana press and it was speculative nonsense. It had persons, typically unnamed, claiming that the entertainment establishment was targeted because it was regularly frequented by Guyanese nationals. Aside from the sensationalist speculation , the gist of the report was also factually wrong. Among he errors: there were no six gunmen-only one was apparently involved. From all the available evidence at this juncture including from senior investigative officers of the Barbados police, this was an apparent case of a robbery gone wrong. There are no indications this was a hate crime against Guyanese. Indeed, Barbadians have sympathised with me about this tragedy which could happen in any country.” said Consul Norman Faria.

“As I said at the screening of the commendable movie ON THE MAP about migrant workers in Barbados , progressive and democratic forces including the left have to really get worried and decisively act when anti-foreigner sentiment and xenophobia becomes part of mainstream Barbados politics. While it cannot get directly involved in Barbadian politics, the Consulate monitors the situation and is of the view that, in the main and at this conjuncture, Barbadian political parties, grassroots institutions such as trade unions, credit unions and the churches are still made up of decent, tolerant and democratic minded Barbadians who welcome people from overseas. We sympathise with those who were offended, or earnestly feel that it led to actual racist incidents, by the anti-Guyanese inflammatory rhetoric on talk radio for example. We cannot however translate wild talk from a handful of xenophobes, encouraged by misguided certain talk show hosts themselves, into generalised anti-Guyanese sentiment,” he continued.

The Guyanese Consul went on: “The Guyana Consulate takes very seriously any reports of anti-Guyanese incidents. We have to monitor any attempts to stir up hatred and speak out when necessary. The Consulate has its responsibility and has on many occasions written radio station managements which encourage misinformed or wilful inflammatory views which can only serve to create divisions and racial hatred among working people and which undubtedly embarrasses the majority of decent, tolerant Barbadian people. Following a Consulate communication to the Barbadian police (and copied to a radio station managemnt), there have been some improvements at the stations including call screeners being more awake and responsible. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Those who wish to stir up racist feelings and divide people should have no freedom of speech.”

“Consul Faria at the film screening also referred to the MONITORING AND CONTROL-he never used the word CENSOR-of blogs in Barbados. This type of reference is in keeping with progressive trends overseas including in countries like Finland, Turkey and Greece. We can start with forcing those who operate the blogs to have their names and addresses publicly displayed on them. We must respect the traditional freedom of the serious and excellent media in Barbados and commend the rights of Barbadians to express their views. We must respect the Barbados government’s regulatory powers but note that private sector initiatives, perhaps from web server firms, could be a way to start. We must be sensitive and understanding towards well reasoned arguments from Barbadians about migrant workers. The bottom line is that blogs should not serve as a platform for racist and inflammatory wild talk, especially against the backdrop of the region moving towards a meaningful CSME.”

Dead in the Bay Street incident is 27 year old Christopher Anthony Griffith while proprieteress of the Hippo Bar and Caribbean Restuarant, Silochani Samuels, is now a patient at the island’s Queen Elizabeth Hospital. Faria said he has been briefed by the police on the matter, including that the post mortem should be completed on Griffith by Wednesday. Faria said he visited with Samuels at the hospital on Tuesday after the weekend shooting to give her encouragement and offer any assistance from the Consulate on behalf of the Guyana government. “Apparently, the bullet is lodged close to her heart and doctors are keeping her under observation until they make a decsion on the matter,” he said.

Asked if Barbadian police had any leads into the murder, Faria said the police told him they “has some suspects in mind” but that investigations are continuing.


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263 responses to “Shooting In Barbados No Hate Crime Against Guyanese, Report Was Speculative Nonsense – Consul”


  1. The truth continues to be very unfriendly to Political Scientist Randy Persaud, and Political Scientist Peter Wickham. Folks Political science is not a real science, but has anyone found any work done by Randy Persuad on Guyana’s political and cultural problems? I find it interested how deliberately self servicing and inconsistent these two individuals are, on the issue of Guyana’s race relations, The high level of criminality of Guyanese in the Diaspora, and the unwillingness of Indo Guyanese of Hindu origin to work with other ethnicity’s to further the Caribbean experience. Peter Wickham has written two articles dealing the with the last election in Guyana where he asked some very pointed questions along the lines of race, and Randy Persuad has found comfort in maliciously presenting a criminal act of robbery as a hate crime, something for which there is no evidence to support, and that his own Guyanese Consulate in Barbados has dismissed such speculation as “nonsense”. It is not lost on me that Randy Persaud in particular as sought to win the argument via his credentials, and by now to his miscalculation he should be aware that creditability must be earned at all times. Academics you are, but on this issue, simple truthfulness has not been your friend.


  2. INDIAN GUYANESE // July 27, 2008 at 12:11 am

    The comments I read here are Hilarious!
    I live in Linden, where historically Indians had been slaughtered, raped and burnt in the 60โ€ฒ after Burnham let loose his โ€œdogs of warโ€ on them. Likewise, it is the popular slogan of the late President Hoyteโ€™ โ€œSlow fiaโ€ by encouraging blacks to burn down Indians homes and businesses.
    =================================

    I strongly believe in “an eye for an eye”, in fact my argument against CSME and Caribbean integration has to do with integrating with people who do not want to integrate, or want to do so on their own terms, even if those terms are an anathema to other ethnicities. I am understanding you contribution to be one of JUSTIFYING INDO-GUYANESE DISLIKE FOR BLACKS. Now i am a fear minded person, and if Blacks did these things to indo-Guyanese, then I am in solidarity with them for their ambivalence in coming to terms to with Afro-Guyanese. Now it is fairly well establish that Indo-Guyanese has no uses for blacks, and you have just given the BU family a valid reason as to why this is so. Rational and thinking humanbeings, are suppose to apply reason, to situations they are confronted with, and not blindly refer to cultural practices, and norms, no matter how justified such practices may be in their native land. Why do Indo-Guyanese take this dislike for Afro-Guyanese, born out of some terrible atrocities and apply it lock stock and barrel on Black Barbadians, and in fact, on Blacks in the diaspora as well? Why the generalization and “lumping” of all blacks in the same category no matter where they go? If to love yourself as an Indo-Guyanese one must be mistrusting of Blacks, why must Blacks living in their own communities and countries accept them and this behaviour???


  3. Get rid of them or manage them before it is too late. Trust my word on it you Bajans.

  4. DOCTOR GUYANA Avatar

    You all need serious help!


  5. INDIAN GUYANESE // July 27, 2008 at 12:11 am

    The comments I read here are Hilarious!
    I live in Linden, where historically Indians had been slaughtered, raped and burnt in the 60โ€ฒ after Burnham let loose his โ€œdogs of warโ€ on them. Likewise, it is the popular slogan of the late President Hoyteโ€™ โ€œSlow fiaโ€ by encouraging blacks to burn down Indians homes and businesses.

    ===============================
    care to expand on the above???????


  6. Very interesting and thought provoking comments from all the commentators.I read all with intrigue.The general consensus we must be careful with the Indian race and their racism against us blacks.I do not know what more evidence our leaders want to convince them as Scout said we have a hurricane coming and not even a hurricane watch is being issue further a hurricane warning.
    Our leaders have enough immigration models in the Caribbean that it can draft and put in place a comprehensive immigration policy that will have the desire effect that we black Barbadians are asking the government to put in place.It is extremely interesting what the Cayman Islands,British Virgin Islands and St Maartins did and are doing to control the influx of immigrants.I believe this matter could be handle in such a manner that the demographics will practically remain the same.If this is not possible we blacks must look for alternatives.
    Indians where ever they go conflict,mayhem and disaster do follow.I want anyone to tell me if there is any peaceful country where indians are in the majority.Not one.Not in India,Pakistan,Sri Lanka,Bangladesh,Nepal,Guyana,Trinidad,Fiji or Suriname.Not one peaceful indian country.We must ask ourselves why this is so.I envisage that Barbados will follow that path when the indians take over.We blacks must be prepare for that and be pro-active.This country is heading the way of Guyana & Trinidad.Therefore let us act now not violently.If all the indians want to come here give them the space and we in turn migrate in our numbers to other Caribbean countries and give those countries the expertise we have through our education.Dominica is a very large Caribbean country full of potential but sparsely populated.Why not go to Dominica and build up Dominica.I also have my eyes on St.Kitts Nevis we could build those countries with our expertise.Let us be forward thinking and think of where we want to be as a people and a race the next 50 or 100 years.Let build black nation states that would be strong.
    Indians will ultimately destroy Barbados the same way they destroy all the countries that those bastards inherit.
    Indians are a destructive race the facts are there to prove it.


  7. Michael belle

    You suggested that the social services of barbados needs to be upgraded if it cannot support an increase of 10% in the population (by guyanese).

    You seem to have figures no one else in barbados has.Even one minister of government(kellman) has put the figure to about a 25% increase but many are fully convinced that 25% is very conservative and the true figure is much higher than that.

    It has been stated by a journalist recently that since the freeing up a couple years ago of movement of persons in the caribbean – Barbados has attracted 178,000 persons coming to our country – yes one hundred and seventy – eight thousand persons and though we would like to believe that some went back we are not sure how many did.

    It is felt a large percentage of those remained in this tiny 166 sq mile dot of land – called barbados.

    The truth is it is easy for guyanese to tell us that light and water etc need to be ‘upgraded’ to accomodate these influx of persons.

    I don’t think you really get it,so I will try again.

    Most of the guyanese in barbados are illegal and its hard to get statistics on them.

    Most of the guyanese are not adding value to our society but depressing it.Guyanese are living in converted pig pens,living 15 persons in a small 3 bedroom house with 1 tiolet (not my words but that of the prime minister of barbados),have been engaged in a spate of crime on the island,have according to our prime minister began to turn parts of our country into a slum and on and on.

    The guyanese who are coming are not bringing any special skills as before – they are actually coming here as unskilled and going on work sites as artisans – taking money and then learning the skill in the process.

    You seem to think that a country that is 166 sq miles should just ‘upgrade’ their services to accomodate the guyanese who are coming,plus the jamaicans,the chineese and every one else.

    Water my friend cannot be magically increased,so too garbage landfill space.We unlike guyana have not been blessed with many natural resources e.g. gold,bauxite,large tracts of land etc

    Successive governments with the exception of the last arthur adminstration – were prudent with the people’s limited resources here – and with the hard work of bajans,and the dilligence of its leaders and its people we have come this far – through the grace of the Almighty God.

    Our forefathers struggled,sacrificed and build barbados with very little so our children might have a better life than theirs – not to see all that go down the drain as the thieves and prostitites and the destitutes all rush in to barbados to see how much they can take out of it.

    We cannot provide for everyone who wants a chance to improve their life -even the big USA will not allow that.

    This mass exportation by Jagdeo of guyanese to other people’s country must stop – we know that he is deliberately doing it so he can get the foreign exchange they send back to guyana.

    However understand as you so rightly pointed out earlier guyanese have created problems not only in Barbados but in Antigua,Tortola – and to that I will also add:St Maarteen,Trinidad,St Lucia – they are generally seen as nuisances wherever they go and are quickly deported.

    Like I said this is not the guyanese of the 60s and 70s.

    Why it is you should ask yourself, that bajans have lived with the st lucian hawkers for decades who came up to sell their fruit or work in agriculture,why they had no problem with the vincentian cane cutters who came in the 80s or the dominicans eh?
    These people came,integrated well with bajans,didnot try to scheme them, to break up their marriages,to convert pig pens to live in, or create slums.They worked and when their time was up they went back to their countries – not so the guyanese.

    This is not about bajans not being properly prepared for immigration – we had always had migrants in our country- we have never had the kind we are seeing especially the indians ones who are engaged in all sort of crime,and schemes and loose behaviour.

    Imagine for one moment a beautiful clean river,then imagine a barge dumping tons of garbage in that beautiful river and then all you can see for miles is floating garbage clogging up this once beautiful river – in one swoop the benefits of that river have been taken away by those who cared not for the owner of that river – but only for finding a place to dump their garbage.

    Barbados,cannot be the dumping ground of the caribbean for everyone’s garbage.


  8. re: INDIAN GUYANESE :

    Fellow BU readers:
    This person is just a PPP government “ghost writer”, like the ones that write letters to the papers in Guyana every day spouting government propaganda. He has bundlesd a whole 50 years of Guyanese history in a propaganda piece to mislead readers and attempt to rewrite Guyana’s history.

    Indians have to understand that they will NEVER continue to make Guyana another Fiji or Mauritius …and suppress the black people there. They will NEVER have security Guyana will NEVER prosper unless they share power and govern for all rather than ruling after winning just 54% of the popular vote.

    The lies and the 28 year mantra will no longer hold. Burnham passed on since 1985. The PPP has been in power since 1992 and things have got worse, especially for black Guyanese. Do not blame the weak opposition that is there now. Tell Jagdeo to rise to the occasion and be a statesman ans not a racist rabble monger. Otherwise ther will be REAL FIRE soon.

    With the Internet and the free flow of news today, I can see this situation where Guyanese Indians will be shunned throughout the Region by the black people who make up the majority of the population.. the real news on Guyana is out now.. We are all following the developments Mr. Indian Guyanese… enjoy the ride while it lasts….

    Thanks to all as I am learning more as I read these blogs. Especially thanks to Michael Belle’s contributions. He has brought a number of new facts and scenarios to the discussions. I look forward to his contributions as well as Negroman and Anon and JC and of course David… who keeps things on track.


  9. Guyana Chronicle news paper:

    No evidence of Barbadians widespread hatred for Guyanese
    I REFER to a letter “Bajans, Guyanese and the Politics of Hate” (KN, 26 July 2008) by Dr Randy Persaud in which he argues there is open hostility against Guyanese in Barbados which resulted in the recent murder and wounding of two Guyanese nationals.

    While we understand the apparent commendable intent of Dr Persaud to draw to the public’s attention any wrong doing against Guyanese, we have to be careful.

    Dr Persaud provides no evidence about widespread hatred against Guyanese in the island leading to violence against them. He cites the Barbados Underground blog on the internet and refers to opinion pieces in the media. These of course have to be monitored but his exaggeration and speculation at this stage is unproductive and goes against the grain of the essentially still good and friendly relations among the governments and peoples of Guyana and Barbados.
    NORMAN FARIA
    Guyanaโ€™s Honorary Consul to Barbados
    =================================

    It is amazing that this individual can be trusted to honestly instruct anyone in a degree programme.

    What evidence what, I am Dr. Randy Persuad, that should be enough. Are we truly surprise at what Guyana is today?


  10. We wish to associate ourselves with Adrian H’s last comment regarding Dr Randy Persaud. We also ask that he proffers an unequivocal apology to the people of Barbados and the region. He was able to write an article based on no facts which has been refuted by Faria. This situation should be brought to the attention of his university. To have attained a doctorate should carry much responsibility. To be an academic a heavy responsibility should be on producing well constructed arguments. After reading the doctor’s article how can a parent subject their child to his instruction?

    The other point raised by Adrian H is very relevant. What scholarly work has this ‘doctor’ produced to further the cause of West Indian integration? He deliberately picked on some extreme comments posted by commenters and has totally ignored the points which BU has been pushing on the need for a managed immigration policy which the Prime Minister and members of parliament on both sides have agreed needs to happen.


  11. Does anyone find it strange that sooooo many bajans are talking about the large influx of immigrants – and yet if you read a newspaper,if you listen to talk radio on VOB – you would easily assume -everything is allright in little Bim that is if you had just arrived from another continent or planet.

    The message the media wants to give out is: there is no concern,no problem.

    History however, will judge the media very harshly for stifling and supressing discussion on this issue.


  12. David, my thoughts are along the same line. I intend to send a copy of Dr. Persuad’s online letter along with Norman Faria’s comment to Lennox Price, Barbados Consul general in NY. I will suggest that he seeks an apology from the Doctor. This will be the first approach. I have not ruled out calling him, and if all fails in reaching a consensus with him, to email his comments, the rebuttal from Faria along with academic evidence that justifies the Barbadian public concerns and calls for managed migration, to all his collegues on faculty at the American University.

    ———————-
    Randolph B. Persaud
    Ph.D., York University
    E-mail: persaud@american.edu
    Phone: (202) 885-1757

    Research and teaching interests are in the areas of โ€“ political economy of globalization; human and global security, north/south relations, and the global politics of race, culture and identity. Before moving to American University, he was Assistant Director of the Centre for International and Security Studies, York University, Toronto. Dr. Persaud is the author of Counter-Hegemony and Foreign Policy: The Dialectics of Marginalized and Global Forces in Jamaica (Albany: State University of New York Press, 2001); and co-editor (with R.B.J. Walker) of Race and International Relations – A Special Issue of Alternatives, Vol. 26, No. 4, October-De. 2001. His writings have also appeared in Alternatives; International Studies Review; Latin American Politics and Society; Race and Class; Connecticut Journal of International Law; and Journal of Interdisciplinary Crossroads. Among other research projects, Dr. Persaud is currently working on a study of the nuances of American hegemony.
    ———————————


  13. Adrian,
    I startred the ball rolling by sending the below email to Dr. Persaud demanding an apology. Failing to do so I shall forge ahead.

    Dr. Persaud,
    I read your recent comments on the blogs with interest. From what I can discern you had no factual evidence to support your allegations. It is my opinion that your were trying to sully the good name of the people of Barbados. What you should be doing is reaching out to the Indo-Guyanese who are in Barbados illegally, and who rather than keeping a low profile are being involved in criminal activity, scams, prostitution, etc. I believe that you in your rush to judgement, and not having any facts owe the country of Barbados an apology. I look forward to an unconditional apology.

    I


  14. We apologize to the BU family but periodically we like to restate previous positions, so bare with us.

    BU is an unflinching advocate of a managed immigration policy for Barbados. Do a search ‘immigration’ in the BU Search Box and you will find a number of blogs addressing why this is our position.

    We have gone one step further to suggest that within the ambit of a managed immigration policy the impact of ethnic groups on a stable host population should be addressed also. The Indo-Guyanese have been singled out because to be frank we see so many on our streets on a daily basis. So far we have not suggested any thing that should be construed as being xenophobic.

    Some commenters by their own admission have become emotional at times however we are satisfied that as intelligent human beings we should be able to filter what are concerns and fears being expressed by Barbadians as they observe what is happening around them. These observations have fueled perceptions which in the absence on scientific information and intellectual discussion has been allowed to fester.

    The positive from Dr. Persuad’s letter is that it has directed many Guyanese at home and abroad to BU. We take this opportunity to say to both sides of this issue to take a deep breath and let us share experiences in a dispassionate manner. The basic tenet of mankind we sincerely believe is to co-exist. Unfortunately when our respective environments kick in to configure how we are socialize this is when we as humans, despite our intelligence, get it all wrong.

    Unfortunately the traditional media in Barbados have elected to avoid this issue. It is one which Barbados has turned a blind eye for too long. The BU household has decided to take a stab at it. We may wobble along the way but rest assured that we believe it is a justified position and we will rely on the support of Barbadians and others to ensure that our dialogue is constructive. We see a parallel in successive governments avoiding the issue of policy formulation regarding a alternative energy plan as suggested by a commenter and our open immigration policy. The decision makers are scared at the consequences if they get it wrong. To do nothing in our opinion will make sure that we get it wrong.


  15. You guys need to control your immigration. Look what is going on in GUyana,we have a President’s who is pre occupy with homo business. So all his presidential actions are just that.

    He treated his wife like a dog,they dismiss tons and tons of blk fokks on a daily basis.

    But I would stress,is just good for u bajans, we blacks in Guyana are punishing at the hands of these indians since 92,and to date you guys have not thrown us a life jacket. They will take ur country and make u a permanent underclass.


  16. why are you not mentioning the shooting of another guyanesee her name is collette Richmond

    Denise

    Please let us use common sense. Five people were reported shot yesterday. The police are investigating, so lets just relax a little.

    Davis


  17. Guyana man

    You may not be aware but many like myself have spoken out against the treatment of afro guyanese by the indian president of guyana and the dicrimination of afro guyanese by indo guyanese.

    To our surprise you have afro guyanese coming on this site and not agreeing with the statements we have made about the indians behaviour, but instead sided with the indo guyanese who are living in barbados.

    So it seems to me that when you – the afro guyanese – are in guyana you can see all the ills of the indo guyanese and cry out for black bajans to be in solidarity and help you.
    However as soon as you start living in barbados then ‘everybody is one’ – and we are all guyanese – and then we hear about how we went to school with them,and eat with them and all the rest.

    So bajans rightfully have to step back.


  18. Anon

    On the numbers of Guyanese in Barbados.

    A source of statistics is the Guyana Census and the Guyana Bureau of statistics. How many Guyanese left the country permanently? An estimated 140 000 over fifteen years. Where did they go? Primarily to the US and Canada according to visas issued etc. Relatively few to the Caribbean. Most to Trinidad.

    Barbados is not the destination of choice for most Guyanese. The remittances from Guyanese according to the Bank of Guyana, come from North America etc. The Caribbean is small potatoes.

    Barbados cannot have more than 10-15 000 Guyanese. The total number of immigrants in Barbados cannot exceed 35 000.

    How many houses in Barbados? Your government will says about 150 000. How many are free to be rented out. About 7 000. How many are rented out to Bajans? How many are available for foreigners?

    With 178 000 foreigners the economy must be a billionaire economy. They must be beating Bajans out of their homes to rent them out. A good journalist who has training in statistics can get info to do an estimate.

    How many people in prisomn? What percentage of prisoners are foreigners.? How many reports of crimes to the Police? How many involve foreigners?

    Are the foreigners mostly men or women? How many births are they registering at the hospitals? Or are they all childless?

    Is there an increase in birth, death, health and other figures that show that the Bajan population has almost doubled because of foreigners…

    Immigration keeps stats.

    How many entries from the Caribbean. 178 000? How many exits ?….

    Avoid rumour and speculation. If you guys want a good idea create a team to get the figures.

    How much foreign exchange is now going out and to where? The Bank of Barbados has those stats.

    If you really have that kind of population the supermarkets and stores and the house renters would be very happy. The few poor complaining about seeing an Indian here or there are complaining about a visual insult not an insult to the economy. If there were enough jobs for even half those foreigners then Bajans are not enough to fill the vacancies and they should be grateful to find people to help run the economy.

    I can speculate about the cultural problems you would have. But since you are not Rwanda let not ole talk get you worked up. You have got to approach public education with facts.

    The light and power companies whould be swimming in money if their client base has so expanded and should have no problem getting finance to improve the generating capacity, put in desalination plants etc.

    The problem is not the immigrant in the economy. The problem is integration.

    If Randy P is a doctor in race and development and he gives this kind of opinion it is because he is an Indian first.

    The Indo guyanese who rushed in baring his wounds from theLinden massacre fails to mention that Indian killed about 85 blacks during the time he mentioned. Linden was only 5 Indians killed. Indians blew up a boat with 40 people on board and angry blacks retaliated at Linden. But they killed only five. Overall during the civil war each race lost about equal amounts to violence.

    Indian dishonesty with history is well known in Guyana. They are a sick, shameless bunch.

    Please note that the 178,000 is a number which has a heavy component of transient visitors i.e.CWC 2007 etc.

    David


  19. @ Michael Belle

    You are the first person who has come here and try to triangulate data and come up with a guesstimate.
    If the problem is soooooo out of hand as the handful here would like to suggest, then instead of hiding on a blog, they should be petitioning their representatives for a managed migration policy, pronto.
    In the 80s we stood up on Broad Street and signed public petitions to free Nelson Mandela.
    So if the situation is so out of hand why not get the petitions going. Start on Broad Street. Where is the public protest?
    By the sound of the alarms here, BU should be able to get 50 000 signatures in no time.
    STOP THE TALK AND START DE ACTION.
    If managed migration is your plea, let’s see some models of managed migration that actually work. Sway the discussion in that direction BU.
    Define “managed migration” for us. What does it mean? How does it work?
    Start to give us some solutions and turn this into a healthy debate that will not further tarnish the country’s image.


  20. @Raegonomics

    People protest in different ways, we do from our kitchen table. Also you are stuck in a time warp because the government has responded and is on public record with the recent amendment to the immigration act to address the issue of a managed immigration approach.

    The issue at this stage is how do we deal with the illegals on the ground at the moment. By the way why should Barbadians have to triangulate based on unknown variables? Don’t we have a statistical department?


  21. You guys can get numbers and data and everything you want,but the fact of the matter is that hinduism does not permit for an integrated society.Bajans will now get a taste of what we have been crying out about since 1992. Racism and corruption and narcotic state has reached it zenith in Guyana,and now will over flow into Guyana. What you bajans should do is support people who are willing to make Guyana a democracy by any means necessary.


  22. No one is suggesting that the average Bajan is responsible for coming up with a guesstimate.
    There is a reason why the powers that be wont come out and give a number.
    You obviously dont have a clue as to what triangulation is either, based on the nonsense you just wrote.
    Is the recent amendment to the immigration act going to solve the problem without action?


  23. BU is sticking to the thesis that managed migration should also include some provision for the impact of other ethnic groups on Barbadian society. Please come out and say exactly what u mean by these words so that there are no inferences.
    Let’s have the kind of debate u r asking for DAVID.


  24. I have one clue, and that clue is that you guys will loose your island. Since 1992 the PPP have benn engaging in an apartheid system in Guyana. I remember the first thing they did in my area was to remove the police in charge of the station and replace him with a party hack who was in the force.

    And things rapidly decline from their. When the Guyana joint opposition took a petition to Caricom a few weeks ago, they were ignored. They even had Jagdeo thumbing his fingers in their face and laughing at them.

    You bajans will loose your island,and that is what you get for staying silent while atrocities are being carried out right next door to you.

    I’m going to laugh at you guys,I’m just sad it could not be all the way to the bank.

    The first thing you guys should do is expel RIcky Singh, here is one of the indian racist on the island being allowed to live in peace and peddle his garbage back in Guyana via the Guyana Chronicle. That man hates black people to the core,and yet you bajans shelter him there.


  25. Michael Belle

    I’ll try to say this slowly – most of the guyanese in barbados are here illegally.

    Your information from the guyanese bureau of census with all due respect is worth – SQUAT.

    Guyanese come to barbados saying they are going to stay for 3 weeks vacation – they give an address they will be staying at -then THEY DISAPPEAR – never to be heard from again until they get into trouble with the law and it is discovered they have been here illegally for 7 years or 10 years or more.

    If you had to just look at the persons who were given work permits or permanent residency the numbers would be low perhaps just a couple thousands.

    However anyone with a modicum of common sense knows that those figures do not tell the true picture.

    Frankly I find your comments to be quite arrogant for you to tell us in barbados to stop speculating about the immigration figures and then with no knowledge or information you do just that and tell us that the guyanese in barbados are no more than 10 – 15,000 and there are no more than 35,000 immigrants in barbados.

    Know your place Michael Belle,please don’t insult us because we have been courteous to you on this site o.k.?

    Further, in barbados unfortunately there are no visa applications so your comparison to the USA is not on all fours since your bureau will not be registering barbados.

    I beg your pardon – did you say that barbados is not the country of choice for most guyanese?

    Well duh? The guyanese who are coming to barbados will not even get a look in the US – and like most caribbean people their first choice is always the US or Britain – however since there is that pesky problem of visas approval – and we know that guyana is not on their favoured list in either Canada or America or even Britain – then we can safely assume that like your acting police commissioner Greene and foreign affairs minister Clement Rohee whose visa applications were denied – visas granted are very restricted and small.

    Please read my post – I said that after the relaxing of rules through CSME – it has been stated that 178,000 persons entered barbados for varying lenghts of time – however there is no number on how many of them went back out – so we don’t know how many remained – there is nothing in my post suggesting 178,000 stayed.

    I trust that you are not going to adopt the usual guyanese posture on this blog – by first agreeing with points made and confirming issues raised – and then once you are accepted as truthful and genuine or credible – you start distorting or throwing red herrings as arguments.

    On the question of foreign exchange I don’t know if David/BU has the related info (published in the newspaper) where it was stated that the remittances from guyanese in barbados back to guyana was in the high millions – every year.

    You ignored all I said in my earlier posts about the negative behaviour of your countrymen here – and responded with one line – there are good and bad guyanese entering every country – well my friend it seems we got most of the bad guyanese in barbados.

    You mention that if guyanese are so prevalent in barbados then we would be getting high earnings from house rentals.

    Didn’t you read where I said that guyanese rent a house as a single person and then cram in 15 adult persons for a house designed to accomodate 4 or 5 persons.That extra money is not going to the barbadian landlord but to corrupt,dishonest guyanese renter.

    I think right now I am going to sit back and have a second look at what you are NOW saying.

    What is most troubling to me is that after coming on here and telling us how terrible the indians are to afro guyanese,and point by point listing the hell we will see if we let this situation get out of hand you now come on this site and say ( see your post above):”I CAN SPECULATE ABOUT THE CULTURAL PROBLEMS YOU WOULD HAVE,BUT SINCE YOU ARE NOT RWANDA LET NO OLE TALK GET YOU WORKED UP”.

    So are you now saying all you told us before about the Indo – Afro conflict is just that – OLE TALK?

    I think I will also take into consideration the advice of Insight who told us that there are PPP supporters sent to be ghost letter writers on guyanese newspapers and as bloggers on site such as this.

    While you may or may not be in that group I am becoming a little suspicious of the slant you are taking which only reminds me of similar action by guyanese bloggers in the past.

    They start agreeing with you to worm their way in – you came in telling us how you were an afro guyanese of bajan descent and how we don’t know the horrors that will face us down the road with these indo guyanese and all the talk – but I am begining to see a subtle or even not so subtle shift from your previous comments.

    So true to form.


  26. GuyanaMan…this is certainly not the kind of debate that Reaganomics wishes to be engaged in. It’s too emotionally charged and it does not help the image of my country Barbados. Please keep your anger, hatred and race politics to yourself, else you are just as guilty of the Indians you are accusing by spreading your anger.
    Just as BU’s central thesis is that of “managed migration” (which we are yet to be educated on) and the impact of multi-ethnic groups on Barbados; Reagonomics central position is respect for human rights and equality.
    Reagonomics will not sway from this philosophical position.


  27. @Reagonomics

    Your arrogance and condescending positions is the reason you don’t attract debate in the BU family. If you want to see our positions on this matter do a search of BU. You may be surprise what we know. The last time we checked triangulation utilized a quantitative approach. Stay humble and true and the rest is easy brother. You may say that we have no idea of triangulation but you should go on.


  28. Reagan

    I don’t want you to sway from your philosophical position,what I’m telling you with 100% certainty is that you will loose your Island to immigration especially those coming from Guyana. If I land in Barbados tomorrow I can pick these Guyanese out with much ease. Unless you guys adopt managed immigration,which I don’t think you have the balls to do,then your island is gone.

    You can doubt me all you want,but indian racism is the cause of all of this. What is going on in Guyana is an apartheid system, and many in Guyana were warning you guys years ago,but you ignored us. Now deal with what is coming your way and shut up.

    You guys were in love listening to Ricky Singh as he castigate Burnham, but nothing came out of his mouth after 92.

    Race,racis and democracy is the crux of your problem,and you can ignore it more and more. As bajans migrate to the tri state..NY,NJ,PA, we Guyanese will take your island away.


  29. Reaganomics didnt want to touch this one at all. But Reaganomics finds it necessary to ask y some r calling 4 an apology from Randy.
    Randy is a free citizen (like us) living in a free democratic country (like us) and has the right to speculate (like so many here are doing/like us).
    Randy is using the same medium we are using here to state his position (real or imagined) just like all of us here are doing.
    This is exactly what Reaganomics is talking about. The principle of fairness!
    Anytime public policy is not rooted in the principle of fairness and equality it comes back to haunt you. Of course this is if we accept the principles of democracy and accept that we live in a democratic society.
    It’s clear for everyone to see that the main problem in Guyana is the breakdown of democracy.


  30. GuyanaMan said:

    You bajans will loose your island,and that is what you get for staying silent while atrocities are being carried out right next door to you.

    Iโ€™m going to laugh at you guys,Iโ€™m just sad it could not be all the way to the bank.
    ————————————-

    Lol,do you actually think this ?from since when is Barbados responsible for Guyana ? Look at your own political leaders as the reason for Guyana’s continued failure as a country economically.You have a President who is even restructuring your economy to be reliant on remittances & exporting your own nationals as if they are a commodity.

    It is obvious the people of Guyana wish to have some of the amenities that is nominal for Bajan citizens but that is something only Guyanese citizens can work for in their own country.

    Remember,the idea of Caricom is that it is a community of Sovereign states,which Barbados still is & always will be if its Citizens allow.


  31. “The last time we checked triangulation utilized a quantitative approach.”

    ******************************************
    This is Reaganomics’ point exactly. You dont have a clue what you are talking about.
    I’m truly sorry if this comes over as condescending for that’s not the intention.
    Reaganomics wonders what will be achieved by a managed migration policy.
    From Reaganomics’ very limited knowledge on the matter, “managed migration” is discriminatory by nature and allows to state to socially engineer as it sees fit, i.e. based on a dominant ideology.
    So please enlighten us BU!


  32. I have relativs in Guyana. I don’t know them, but my grandfather’s sister – now deceased- emigrated there in her teens and started a family. So this is not about hating Guyanese.
    As a tiny island (Island) we cannot be flooded by everyone from any one country. I have had Guyanese tell me boldly that they are going to run use out of here. Well, that will be the day when I die. I remember that after hurricane Ivan blasted Grenada on Sept 8th 2004 with 130mph winds, scores of Guyanese living in the spice isle, made a mad rush back home leaving Grenadians to refit the pieces. Upon their return to Georgetown, they had an unplesant welcome.Many local residents wondered about their job security’ despite Grenada’s devastation. Barbados is NOT the United States of the caribean. Just 166 square miles and with thousands of students graduating annualy. America, Britain, Canada and other developed countries with landspace are tightening their immigration laws, so where will our children go to carve their future. Just like freedom, our standard of living must be defended. That acknowledged standard is under threat mostly for the lower-earning class of our society. Eventually it will bleed into the middle class, hence posing a threat to out democracy. THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY THAT CAN SURVIVE WITHOUT A SIZABLE MIDDLE CLASS. Therefore, this matter of immigration MUST be managed as it relates to Guyanese, CHINESE;EUROPEANS; TRINIS;JAMAICANS; and whoever. More to come from me.


  33. Yes,to secure your borders it should be in the interest of you to make sure your neighbors are democratic and don’t have an apartheid system stifling their citizens. Those citizens will feel as if they cannot do better with their situations and by any means necessary come into your country and make it unstable.

    Caricom as an entity has failed the people in Guyana and Haiti. Maybe we should ask them to leave and go to Barbados or Trinidad. Imagine the condition that we in Guyana have to live under,and they ignore a petition by the opposition.

    Blacks in Guyana are second class citizens, because we have an indo dominated government that will not end their apartheid until they strangle every last blackman to death in this country.

    For staying silent at the atrocity,Barbados is a goner, that is what you get.

    Anyone wants to be,that under CSME in 15years the Bajans will be a minority?


  34. @ Jay
    “Remember,the idea of Caricom is that it is a community of Sovereign states,which Barbados still is & always will be if its Citizens allow.”
    ******************************************

    This is the exact challenge that CARICOM is facing right now. The states have not matured enough to the point whereby we can make the radical shift from our nationalist perspective to a regionalist one.
    After all, nationalism was a necessary exercise after decolonization. So leaders are now having a difficult time ‘revising’ this exercise.
    The irony however is that (like the World Cup), the global external forces and pressures may very well coerce us into this CSME exercise (for our own survival)
    The dislocation that the region is experiencing with labor coming out of Guyana is not at all uncommon to regionalism. And over time this will correct itself, as the labor demand will shift back to Guyana and salaries will have to rise there forcing labor back to Guyana. Of course this is theoretical based on general equilibrium theory.
    The human element is what we are now having a problem with.


  35. @ GuyanaMan

    “Caricom as an entity has failed the people in Guyana and Haiti. ”

    ******************************************

    This is the only part of your statement that Reaganomics will agree with.
    The rest is speculative, so please stop saying that Barbados will loose [sic] (Reaganomics thinks you actually mean “lose”) its majority to indians. This is pure and unadulterated nonsense.

    Now on the point about CARICOM not speaking out about the atrocities in Guyana. You are absolutely correct. CARICOM remained silent during Burnham’s dictatorship because he was one of the “brothers”; it has remained silent on Haiti because this is the first ‘free’ (and this term is used loosely) black nation in the Western hemisphere; just as it has remained silent on Mugabe.
    That’s the predicament black leaders find themselves in when other black leaders let them down. So silence has always been the way it was dealt with.
    Look at how most African leaders are silent on Mugabe.
    Does this make it right? No it doesnt. It takes balls to come out and call a spade a spade though. But then there’s the cicular argument that “it’s a sovereign matter and we will not interfere.”
    You just cant win.


  36. Aint no labor shifting back to Guyana,as long as these people who’s motto is “pan jhat” is in power and holds the minority in this country, it will always be unstable.

    Remember Guyanese are using Barbados as a drug shipment turf,that was made evident by the couple of big time drug dealers who were taken down in Barbados within the last few years. I see one of them is back in Guyana,don’t know what happen with the case.

    But for caricom to be silent at the atrocities in Guyana, is def sickening, and this will cause many of it’s members state to become unstable. Barbados is first,buckle up and enjoy the ride.


  37. @Reagonomics

    Please check Hansard of two weeks ago next time you visit Barbados. This debate is about illegal immigration and the impact of ethnic groups on a stable host population. We will not shift.


  38. @ GuyanaMan
    “Aint no labor shifting back to Guyana,as long as these people whoโ€™s motto is โ€œpan jhatโ€ is in power and holds the minority in this country, it will always be unstable.”
    ******************************************
    Then if your assessment is correct and Reaganomics trusts that it isn’t; GUYANA IS A FAILED STATE and will continue to be a burden to the enitre Caribbean region.
    So u r correct that CARICOM’s silence on Guyana is worrisome.
    Maybe the time has come for a frank honest debate on the Guyana crisis and CARICOM needs to strategize an SOS plan for our sister.
    Who has the balls?
    One of the first things that must be done for any progress on this issue will be one of the following: either move the Secretariat from Georgetown so that it attracts the best brains in the region or bring back Guyana to some state of normalcy within the next 60 months so that the Secretariat can have some legitimacy.
    Right now, it’s a bogus organization with absolutely no credibility and this is simply because it resides in a FAILED STATE.
    So the region’s leaders need some honest open talk.

  39. DOCTOR GUYANA Avatar

    Guyana man you are a dunce bamsee! What is pan jhat? Unless you can write in another language corrently, then refrain from doing so, as you can send the wrong message. And stop saying you are Guyana man if you are going to disparage our country, our people and our culture. This is disgraceful, all this race talk. The joke is on you all, remenber that, because in 2008 when the US is about to elect a black man as its leader, who claims to be a world citzen, you are seeking isolationists policies. It is sad, because we can all get along. The outside world is reading here, and the word is getting out of how racist Barbadians are, and those same white people with lots of moeny will sooner than later not want to visit and spend time insuch a racist place. The racist vibes will make them sick. Continue your race hate of Indo Guyanese, for it will affect you and only you. I feel sorry for you all. Most of the things you write here about Guyana are lies, but continue,you are sinking your own ship. I believe that crime that took the life of that handsome Essequibo young man and has left a brutiful Guyanese woman clinging to life in a hospital there was a hate crime, for why on earthwould arobber seek out a little Guyanese restaurant when there are big businesses to rob. It is a hate crime, and we good hearted Guyanese are E-Mailing our friends around the world telling them what happened to our citizens in Barbados. Remmeber now there are close to a 1/2 million of our people int he USA alone, and they have frineds and so on. So we are spreading the word too via E-Mail about you all. As I say it is sad then I see such blamtant racism. Your leaders should be ashamed of you.

    Doctor Guyana

    Have you not read you consul general Norman Faria who is posted in Barbados has denouced Dr. Persuad’s letter as rubbish? Yet you would make the statement above? Then you are no different are you. Please relax!

    David


  40. @ David

    “This debate is about illegal immigration and the impact of ethnic groups on a stable host population. We will not be shift.”

    ******************************************
    Seeing that u will not be shifted, Reaganomics can only conclude that “managed migration” will be a public policy that is designed not to alter the demographic profile of Barbados.
    In order to do this, it means that such a policy will logically have to discriminate along the lines of race and ethnicity.
    Now, this is why such a policy WILL BE PROBLEMATIC.
    a) We live within the context of regionalism.
    b) The region is made up of several races.
    c) Barbados has an ageing population and labor shortages in a number of sectors (both professional and unskilled)
    d) Barbados does and will require labor if it’s to maintain its current standard of living; since the birthrate is not keeping apace with the ageing population.
    e) Barbados is a democracy and does not subscribe to any form of discrimination as enshrined in its constitution.
    So please explain to us what is this “managed migration” and possible solutions for its implementation against such a backdrop and within the context of CSME.


  41. Guyana is a failed state, and it has been more than 2years political commentators are writing on the failures of Guyana. You need to read the news and see the comic shows that go on in this country. This is not a country, it is a banana republic.

    Simple things you bajan take for granted we in Guyana long for. Stable electricity,stable water, a police force that respects the law and the citizens of this nation, massive corruption. State sponsor execution of opposition and people they think are criminals. Ministers firing guns in public,being involve in public beat downs. Ministers children above the law.

    And a president who have cuss downs and call them press conference. It is at the point where most Guyanese would agree that Jagdeo is the worst president ever in the caribbean.

    But bajans don’t know,because they stick their heads in the sand and proclaim they were/are better than Guyanese. Then deal with what we have to offer you now.


  42. @Reagonomics

    Your last comment is not relevant. Managed migration is what developed countries now practice. Go do some research.

  43. DOCTOR GUYANA Avatar

    You move your Secretariat out, for I am not the least bit interested in having some racist black people from liitle dots in the sea parading around Guyana seeking to integrate our country with some dots as big as Timehri Airport. Move out! Our country is stable, it ‘s yours that is not, but continue the racist rhetoric and see what will beocme of you, consume yourself, for not even your Caricom wii be able to help you. So sad, so sad, and some of you are educated, you would think that a little education would have freed your minds of evil racism, but no, you hell bent on isolation. You will get it soon than later when your are no longer above the sun, but under the sea, global warming.


  44. It looks like our friends from Guyana are refusing to acknowledge the point which we want to argue but instead are happy to derail the discussion. If it continues we will have to do what we are hesitant to do.

  45. Michael Belle Avatar

    Anon,

    Do you want discussion or do you want to form a mob?

    15 Guyanese to a house is an exaggeration unless you have evidence of it. You will weaken your arguments if you do not have evidence.

    How many Guyanese go to Barbados. The immigration from both countries can say. The airlines can give approximations. They can also say how many people came in and left.

    I am not interested in worming my way into this or any other site. It is just that I have my own way to trying to get the truth. I believe in stats and am trained to measure social truth by stats.

    Walking past a street corner and seeing Guyanese getting drunk, and noting the work of whore, scam artist and the other illegals is one kind of evidence. There are other ways to get evidence which I am pointing out to you. Note carefully what I am saying and try to get some figures if you are really serious about getting government and the people to react.

    If most Guyanese there are illegal, which is possible, then neither you nor I can talk about numbers unless we make guesstimates. And I am in a better position to guess because I have info on Guyanese immigration and census changes.

    When was the last census done and what were the results. How has B’dos population changed in the last ten years? Barbados has excellent statisticians who, if they are ordered by government could come up with a figure. In all cases I don’t think Barbados can hold more than 65 000 extra souls without massive change.

    Look at Dubai, Bahrain, Qatar etc. Small places with few natives. More migrants than natives because the economy is growing fast.

    All along I have been giving you ideas for research and comparison. I thought I read David asking for discussion on the matter. Please allow me to discuss. Beating drum and blowing whistle has been going on in Barbados for a long time about immigration.

    As a development planner I can tell you guys that once an economy starts to grow and create more jobs than the natives can handle, immigration will occur and the drum beating and whistle blowing that goes with it. Some of the fears will be real. Many of the fears will be real. But you need facts and a knowledge of the field to separate real fear from panic, self-flattery, jingoism, prejudice , arrogance, excess nationalism etc.


  46. Doctor Guyana:

    It’s unfortunate that the handful of persons who come here and blatantly espouse racism have no idea what damage they’re doing to Barbados.
    On several occasions, the more enlightened has called for decent and honorable debate on the issue of intra-regional migration, but this has taken a very sad path and in the end Barbados stands more to lose; because sorry to say, Reagonomics doesnt think that Guyana can get any worse, only better (and this is not meant to be disparaging in any way so please dont take it the wrong way).
    Peter will pay for Paul and Paul will pay for all.
    BBC is already on the trail and most of the island’s visitors are from the UK including an increasing number of Brits of indian descent.
    So if we continue to paint this bigoted image of Barbados it will eventually scare off investors and visitors alike.
    It’s really ironic that the world’s most powerful nation is about to elect a mixed race man with a white mother and a black father and us here in the Caribbean are preaching division. Yet they all support OBAMA.
    Reaganomics can only conclude with a quote from Obama’s Berlin speech:
    “The walls between the countries with the most and those with the least cannot stand. The walls between races and tribes; natives and immigrants; Christian and Muslim and Jew cannot stand. These now are the walls we must tear down. “


  47. “Your last comment is not relevant. Managed migration is what developed countries now practice. Go do some research.”

    ******************************************
    Reaganomics has done the research and currently lectures about it. And you are absolutely correct. “Managed migration” is definitely practised in the developed countries.
    YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOOO CORRECT, it’s designed to keep out people of color. Oh yes, it’s also design do send criminals back to the Caribbean even though they’re US citizens with green cards.
    SO YOU ARE ON THE BALL WITH THAT ONE. THE DEVELOPED WORLD IS INDEED PRACTISING MANAGED MIGRATION. ESPECIALLY JAPAN!


  48. “It looks like our friends from Guyana are refusing to acknowledge the point which we want to argue but instead are happy to derail the discussion. If it continues we will have to do what we are hesitant to do.”
    ******************************************

    It seems as though BU will only entertain those who agree with its point of view.
    You are bigger than that David. Your role is the steer the debate and maintain editorial and journalistic objectivity.


  49. So are you saying that Barbados should not put a system in place to keep out criminals as well? Are you saying that Barbados should not undertake a skills audit to determine the relevant skills that would be required to help develop Barbados and recruit the immigrant labour to match?

    To quote our Attorney General:

    Stuart said while Barbados and the Democratic Labour Party had made stellar contributions to the regional integration effort, this country could not continue to be the suitor in regional integration matters when there was no corresponding enthusiasm.

    “Barbados will not be the hub of efforts toward regional integration in circumstances where other players don’t share our enthusiasm . . . and [where] the interest of Barbadians may be compromised,” the minister said.

    “Barbados must not become a kind of warehouse in which is stored the social and other problems of the Caribbean,” he added.


  50. @ Michael:
    As a development planner I can tell you guys that once an economy starts to grow and create more jobs than the natives can handle, immigration will occur and the drum beating and whistle blowing that goes with it. Some of the fears will be real. Many of the fears will be real. But you need facts and a knowledge of the field to separate real fear from panic, self-flattery, jingoism, prejudice , arrogance, excess nationalism etc.
    ******************************************
    Please continue my brother, you are making a lot of sense. But welcome to BU. If you dont agree with the general sentiment, you will be targeted and called names and it’ll get personal. They’ll swarm down on you like vultures.
    But your probing makes a lot of sense as you are obviously trained in the methods of scientific enquiry.
    However, Reaganomics can attest to the fact that there’s overcrowding in houses rented to Guyanese nationals.
    Reagonomics is part of a research team now looking at the whole issue of the impact of CSME and migratory flows.
    Please feel free to send me an email at reaganomics@hushmail.com
    YOU ARE MAKING A LOT OF SENSE.

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