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The educational system of Barbados was placed under the microscope by erudite BU family member Bush tea, when he submitted a thought provoking analysis rebutting the call by Peter Wickham et al to abolish the 11 plus examination on May 15, 2008. We are sure that the elevated discussion which ensued would have benefited readers and commenters alike. Although we had to tolerate the chest thumping behaviour by the HC, Lodge and Combermere graduates, we remind BU family members that whether in the United kingdom or United States most countries have developed educational systems which identify and stream children which demonstrate superior abilities. Attempts to dumb down our current educational system to appease the misuse of egalitarian ideals espoused by Peter Wickham et al should be viewed with suspicion.

Whenever Barbadians are driven to discuss reform in our educational system the focus can be predicted to fall on the secondary school system. In the BU household it is our opinion that our primary school system requires equal scrutiny. For some of us who have operated within the educational system, there is the common knowledge that the primary schools which extract the best 11-plus results rely on the strategies of teachers on site. Most Barbadians can list the public primary schools which are known to promote high standards and more importantly a high level of sweat equity from the teachers.

It comes as no surprise to us that former Prime Minister Owen Arthur’s family had a huge comfort level sending his daughter to West Terrace primary school.

The teaching staff at West Terrace has developed a reputation for developing a scheme which is responsive to the needs of ALL their children. Their willingness to go the extra mile which is provoked by their passion to make that environment receptive to learning is fast developing a national reputation.

Another island worth looking at is Barbados, which shows that the type of achievements made in Cuba are not restricted by communism, but by visionary leaders with the right strategies and passion. I guess the key word here, which you rightly mentioned, is ‘passion’. I’ve often wondered what our prospects could’ve been, if even half of the billions being sent down the drains annually to keep Air Jamaica flying were invested instead in education and even health care.

Source: Jamaican Gleaner

The quote above should cause Barbadians to feel good about what we have accomplished in education as a small island in our post independence period. However the reality is that we live in a dynamic environment, as a people we have to rely on relevant strategies within the education arena to equip our youth at every level to be productive citizens of the world. Against this requirement we must continue to critique our current educational system to determine relevance.

Since the Bush tea article we have received several notes which have highlighted anomalies in our primary education system. We have been able to verify some of those anomalies and we hope that the BU family would comment on what are some serious characterizations:

  • Many primary school children who have been identified as ‘special needs’ within the primary school sometimes have to wait for more than a school year to gain the required transfer to other institutions to match their requirements. There is one case where the evaluating results of a primary school student was available only after the child had been placed into the secondary school system
  • There is the case where some primary school children have been able to reach Class 1 and II who cannot read or write their names
  • The most gut wrenching story received is that of two students who got zero marks in the 11 plus examination. The travesty is not that the children would have participated in the primary system and yielded such a disappointing result, but the lack of an immediate response from our educational system
  • One of the notes received was highly critical of the ‘Criterion Test’ which is presided over by the Ministry of Education. As we understand it, it is a test given to all primary students at the Infants B through to the Class 2 standard irrespective of what levels of understanding the students have attained. As if this is not bad enough the results to the Criterion Tests are often returned months and years later after completion. The obvious problem with this scenario is that the lag caused by the late availability of the results of the test negates a solution oriented approach
  • Last but not least is the over sized classrooms within our primary school set-up, sometime 30+ which means that those children who require remedial care are doomed even before they start the journey of fulfilling their right to be correctly educated. The future of Barbados and the world depends on the readiness of the generation in waiting to build on foundations laid.

It is not our intention to be negative. It is our intention to provide simple analysis of our primary education system which needs to be improved.


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117 responses to “Primary Comes Before Secondary ~ Educational System Failing Our Infants”


  1. Dear No Worry:

    You know as well as I do that most Barbadian students now go to the university of the West Indies. They do not go to UWI because they are academically inadmissable to elite institutions in North America and Europe but because UWI just makes good financial sense especially for the HC/QC graduates who are from Silver Hill, Orange Hill, Apes Hill, Blades Hill, Lonesome Hill and Josey Hill.

    I know a bit about education and a fair amount about internatonal education and HC/QC graduates are competitive with graduate from secondary schools ANYWHERE in the world. Anywhere, including the U.S., the U.K, Canada, anywhere in the EU, Japan, China etc.

    If only we understood how good we are, we would be selling secondary education as a high value service.

    We would especially be selling immersion English education to all those wealthy people from China, Hong Kong, Korea and Singapore who will pay almost any amout of money to have their children achieve native fluency in English. English is not anywhere dead yet. It will still be the language of the 21st century.

    In the NY Times either this week or last there was a story about wealthy Asian parents sending their children some as young as primary school age overseas so that they gain English language fluency while they aare still young.

    As Barbadians too often we see ourselves as inferior. We are not you know.


  2. I forgot to mention the teaching and education mafia who in the good old days held the HC/QC places for their son, and daughters, and god sons and god daughters, and nieces and nephews. We did not hear any complaints coming from the education mafia (sorry educational establishment) in those good old days. The teaching establishment fixed up their kith and kin and the reverend’s children and so on and in their community everybody was happy with this.


  3. J,

    You miss the point by a mile…HC/QC are not elite by world standards. An adequate somewhat pedestrian preparation is provided these students. The students are capable of much, much more but we are dumbing down the curricula in the name of political correctness.


  4. By the way, Harvard will admit and find the tuition money for any really exceptional applicants.

    You know what is an elite program, Jamaica’s athletic program (ok so it’s not academic but it’s still a good example). Just think of it Asafa Powell, Usain Bolt and Veronica Campbell (all home grown and developed).


  5. Dear No Worry:

    You know as well as I do that everybody who applies to Harvard is excellent. And you know as well as I do that Harvard only admits 12% to 15% of undergraduate applicants. Do you really believe that the other 85% to 88% are stupid?

    Not even Harvard has the money to admit every excellent student in the world.

    And you know as well a I do that Harvard reserves spaces for American children, for children of Harvard alumni, for African American children etc.

    Harvard has no set asides for Barbadian children. An indeed why should they? And it is a fallacy to expect that Harvard can or will admit with a full scholarship every Barbadian student who is admissible.

    Harvard does have huge endowments, but nobody has gifted Harvard with a pot of money specifically for Barbadian children. And that won’t happen unless you have such a pot of money to give.

    To expect Harvard to admit every excellent Barbadian student, or every excellent student in the world is foolishness and you know it.

    You know as well as I do that not even Harvard has infinite capacity. Harvard has only so many teachers, only so many classrooms, only x amount of government and endowment money etc.

    And the truth is most Barbadian working and middle class families cannot afford Harvard even with financial assistance.


  6. Dear No Worry:

    Can you provide any evidence of the “dumbing down of the curricula in the name of political correctness?”


  7. Dear No Worry:

    I do not doubt that Bedsty High School is excellent. But can you please tell me how much BedSty spends per pupil per year. And can you tell me BedSty’s pupil/teacher ratio?

    And then can you tell me how much HC and QC spend per year per pupil, and can you tell me HC/QC’s pupil teacher ratio

    Of course there is room for improvement in every school in Barbados, after all we are not in the kingdom of heaven yet; and if we had 10 times as much money to spend as we currently do then I do not doubt that we could buy the language, science arts and music labs and libraries; and the services of other people’s teachers for our children so that our pupil/teacher ratio could be like BedSty’s and I do not doubt that if we were able to do this then schools like HC and QC and St. Elsewhere too could get even better results.


  8. Why do you think that New York has for many years been recruiting our teachers?


  9. And the Ontario government is currently changing their law so that they can recruit our UWI educated doctors?

    Dear No Worry when you realize what is happening in th real world then you will start to worry.


  10. Are you folks responding to what Mr. Jones said or responding to Ian Walcott’s interpretation of what Mr. Jones said? I would humbly suggest that you read the article again as I have a different understanding of same. Mr. Jones was not thrashing the older secondary schools rather he was trying to reassure parents that it wasn’t the end of the world if their children didn’t gain admission to one of the schools mentioned. There are too many parents who feel that their children are failures if they didn’t get a “pass” to HC or QC and he reminded those parents that 90% of them did not go to those schools yet they were placing enormous pressure on their children.

    Every child has a different approach to learning and each child learns at a different pace, some are brilliant early in life and continue to show that brilliance all through high school and beyond, some are brilliant early and flame out later, many are plodders to whom learning is a chore but through application and hard work become increasingly brilliant over the years. I would venture to say that many top level executives in both business and Gov’t in Barbados come from the latter group.

    Mr. Jones does not discount the academic achievement of schools like HC or the others but the irony of this academic superiority is lost on me when upon graduation the students from HC or QC generally end up at the various UWI campuses as those children who may have gone to one of the newer secondary schools.

    Ian Walcott shows his true colours when he labels the Minister as “dumbass”, that comment alone should alert everyone that this is a political attack rather than a substantive one, Mr. Jones may be many things but he certainly is no “dumbass”.


  11. Ian Walcott – man you mussee got some real large cojones to call the Minister a dumb ass practically in front he face using yuh real name fuh everybody to see. Lol. He really need to get out of football, though. I too frighten to use my real name, he might pull a audit pon me and I can’t deal wid dat right now.

    Tell me something, though. Duh got anybody atall in this Gov’t you think got any sense?


  12. J

    Read Sargeant’s post who addresses Ian Walcott’s post more succinctly and completely than I have.

    I will continue to make the point that HC and QC are adequate schools but not elite (by world standards). If HC/QC are elite then Ellerlie, Garrison, Foundation, Deighton Griffith, Princess Margaret, CP, Alleyne and all the other schools in Barbados are ‘elite’ as these all follow the SAME CURRICULUM, have teachers of similar training and academic attainment, have similar resources, use the same books, use the same teaching methods etc.

    I hope you will acknowledge what it takes to be a true elite school of the calibre of Stuyveysant High and that presently no administration would dare make those kind of changes. Money was not a problem (it maybe now). Edutec was a half BILLION dollar program what did we get for it?

    It is my contention that if one took all the students at HC and put them at the Garrison Secondary and put the students of Garrison at HC and changed nothing else so that the teachers, principals, books etc remained at their present locations, the results of the Garrison would be the top of the table and HC would be wherever Garrison is now or worse. So why not call Garrison elite? If it takes getting rid of HC/QC to make the parents and students realise that wherever one goes it is an opportunity to advance oneself and one should grab it and make the best of the situation then so be it. We have to stop flogging this false elite/newer secondary dichotomy and open our eyes to the situation and address in a rational way the issue of developing a happy and productive populace.

    Successive administrations have worked at making sure all schools are treated the same in every sense and ironically there in lies the problem.

    As for Ian Walcott, I can do no better than echo Shakespeare’s words from Macbeth – ” a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”


  13. Interesting posts.

  14. Georgie Porgie Avatar

    It is my contention that if one took all the students at HC and put them at the Garrison Secondary and put the students of Garrison at HC and changed nothing else so that the teachers, principals, books etc remained at their present locations, the results of the Garrison would be the top of the table and HC would be wherever Garrison is now or worse.
    ===================================================
    This is erroneous. The facts are I am told teachers who taught previously at other schools when transferred to HC, wound that it was easier to teach there because students where grasping info much faster.

    Before I set off for med school I taught for a few weeks at St Leonards, and was amazed that boys in the first form could not spell simple words or write well etc etc. I had not met nor was I around similar students ever before. I doubt that these students would have had the ability to jump the “dippy” at HC (i.e Weymouth Drain which encircles about half of College A).
    ==========================================================
    Successive administrations have worked at making sure all schools are treated the same in every sense and ironically there in lies the problem.

    One of the things this did was to bring the Lodge school from its greatness before the interference under Billy Miller.

    J
    getting rid of HC/QC wont make the parents and students realize that wherever one goes it is an opportunity to advance oneself and one should grab it and make the best of the situation then so be it. ……………..but we must address in a rational way the issue of developing a happy and productive populace.

    Parents ought to follow their children’s progress at school. If they are reasonable, they will know that their children don’t belong at HC and QC.

    At the same time it is not best for all children to go to HC & QC because they got the marks they did. Some students were coached well or motivated well by very good primary school teachers. At HC this motivation is not shown to all students. The students are basically allowed to fly- if they could. Those with the parental support do best.

    There is much work to be done by teachers in all schools. They must seek to motivate all of their charges to excel. The Spanish Department at St Leonards must be commended for the sustained excellence while working with non stellar students.


  15. Georgie

    “The facts are I am told teachers who taught previously at other schools when transferred to HC, wound that it was easier to teach there because students where grasping info much faster.” Duhhhh! You are agreeing with me arn’t you. If one gives the teachers who are presently at the Garrison, HC students, they will be getting the good results but give the HC teachers the Garrison students they will get the same poor results or worse.

    HC/QC are NOT elite schools just adequate schools with able students. In fancy language, there is little value added as compared to other schools.


  16. Is it possible for stakeholders to discuss the educational system which has served us better than most, and not trash those secondary institutions which have served us well over the years?

    It is a fact that graduates from HC, QC, Lodge Combermere etc have been able to excel in may graduate and post graduate centres around the world. What are we arguing about again?

  17. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Anonymous read your original post again and you will see that you did not say what you thought you said.


  18. Georgie,

    Yes, anonymous was I. Forgot to type the name in. If you are confused as to what I meant then I didn’t say it right, mea culpa.


  19. To Partial:
    “man you mussee got some real large cojones to call the Minister a dumb ass practically in front he face using yuh real name fuh everybody to see.”
    What is there to be afraid of…he’s a mortal man like anyone of us…and when last I checked…he’s a servant of the people…I’m really sick and tired of elected officials speaking to Bajans like if they think we are stupid…
    They all do it…it’s as if once they get the vote they now feel they can talk down to you…I had enough of that…Owen did it…Lynette Eastmond did it, and now theses asses are doing it too…
    Leaders inspire…not beat up on people constantly…
    This bunch is talking a lot…talk is cheap…it’s time for action…
    And for those who suggest that I have a political agenda…go fly a kite…I’m an independent thinker and will react to any side (BEE or DEE) if I am adversely affected as a citizen…
    My pot dont boil at Ronald Jones…
    I go on record stating that he was grossly out of place…
    Let’s flip the coin for a minute…How do you think those little children are made to feel every year if we keep telling them that HC & QC are “just adequate schools?” In so doing, aren’t we belittling their achievement?
    Not all kids are gifted…they are dozens upon dozens of toddlers who work very hard at that young age to achieve a good 11plus result to go to a top school…yes…a top school…it’s a fact of life…get used to it…WE HAVE TOP SCHOOLS…
    Go study Pareto’s 80-20 principle and see that the cream always rises to the top in any sphere of life…academics, sports, business, government, international relations, WAR…
    While you are it…a good read of Darwinism (basic in any philosophy of science 101 class) will show you that any which way you flip it…the cream will rise to the top…if ya doubt me…ask Stella St. John…she would tell ya…LOL

  20. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Ian

    Not only does the cream rise to the top; but when the “true cream” rises, they are hated, and people seek and fight to pull them down.

    The “true cream” is no longer accepted in Bim unless you bulling, wicking or approximating your labia orae to the adipose tissue overlaying the glutei of someone (that is to say the ass lickers .)

    As a result much of the “true cream” has run from home.


  21. GP…
    You know I’m one that admires the Singaporean model…
    Isnt it ironic that Lee Kwan Yew borrowed Bdos’ education model from Errol Barrow?
    Isnt it ironic that Singapore has a meritocracy in place…while we seem to be killing off what little we have left?
    Ya kno GP…what I find funny…we praise the lil 11 yr ole boy or girl…splash their pictures on the front page at 18 or 19 when duh get a Bdos scholarship…but when duh come back to bdos to work…we does run de same lil boy or girl that wanna give back to society…
    Ironic isnt it…
    ONE PULL DOWN PLACE….! Sad, sad, sad, sad…


  22. Now Ian. Don’t lose yourdelf. Stella ain’t no cream. She is one who got into QC before the meritorius 11+ came into being.


  23. I wish that our Ministers would not speak off the cuff.

    I wish that they would hire good thoughtful speech writers.

    I don’t mean that they should hire thoughtless political flacks.

    I don’t mean that they should hire people who will bamboozle the electorate with big words.

    I mean that they should hire people who can write simple, elegant, thoughtful, truthful, beautiful, prose.


  24. J…de comment bout Stella was in reference to when she said, “we are born different…we are not the same…”
    Ya know she’s a character!….I was being facetious…LOL
    Speech writers? Hmmmmmmmmmmm!
    Dont get me started on that…we dont even have good research departments…you’d be amazed at how policy is derived…it’s SCARY…
    Dont start me on this one…pleasssssssssssssssse!


  25. But the very reason why we dont have a research culture is because we are killing off meritocracy…and dismissing those who are capable of research…
    SCARYYYYYYYYYYYYY!


  26. Ahhh!!!! Ian. Eleven year olds are not toddlers. Toddlers are people who are younger thatn 3 years old and who walk with the characteristic toddle of a young child. People older than 3 are properly called children, although the under 5’s can also be caled pre-schoolers.

    Language is important.


  27. Ian all these years we have had a civil service and a group of politicians who have benefited from the HC, QC, Lodge Combermere experience and somehow we have not been able to harness that collected talent to create a research culture in the hallow hall of power?

    Well blow me down man!


  28. Yes politicians tend to like the put down. I saw Owen put down a young woman at the BLP youth meeting at the St. Michael School just before the election.

    The young woman was commenting on the Caribbean wide brain drain and asking whether the BLP had a policy position on retaining our bright young people.

    Owen told her that when she had the chance to grow up and go overseas she would have a better understanding.

    The young woman was 24, has a master’s degree and has lived for years in 3 other countries besides Barbados. Her unanswered question was and is legitimate, but Owen chose not to address it but skirted the question by insulting the young woman. However the question remains and can now be asked of the DLP administration.

    What can we as Barbadian and Caribbean societies do to retain some of our bright young people?

    Since it is clear that these societies cannot go forward without our bright young people, what can we as a people do to make them WANT to stay in Barbados and in the Caribbean???

    Since Owen wouldn’t or maybe couldn’t answer, can anybody out there provide some suggestions?


  29. That why his ass got voted out…
    Thanks J for the correction on the use of the word toddlers…
    There’s a lot of work on the brain drain…but some of the stats are questionable…
    The first issue is with the definition proper…
    BRAIN DRAIN is graduates leaving the developing world to the developed world…so if a Bajan graduate relocates to say Singapore (which for some reason is still considered developing)…then that’s not considered brain drain…if a Bajan graduate goes to another Caribbean island…this too is not considered brain drain…it’s called “brain circulation”…go figure…
    The other problem with the stats is that the OECD counted persons from the developing world who were pursuing postgrad studies in their universities…and we know that very often (at least in the case of Barbados) many of these persons return…
    I say this because the figure for Bdos’ brain drain is 40%…this seems very very high…but I have colleagues who are researching the issue and can shed some more light…


  30. You can download some of Dr. Reis’ work on the subject here: http://www.policyinnovations.org/ideas/policy_library/data/01397


  31. David…do you really want to know how policy is formulated?
    However…if ya say A ya gotta say B…Central Bank has a fairly good research department…because of the early work of Delisle Worrell who recognized the importance of research informed and driven policy…
    But unfortunately in recent years they’ve not been attracting the creme de la creme because their salaries are not as attractive anymore…
    Pray tell me why the govt pumps so much money into UWI and does not use it as its research arm?


  32. Actually a research culture will come when the business community puts some consistent money into research.

    Research tends not to come out of civil services.
    Civil servants are essentaily administrators and should remain administrators since that is what they are best at.

    But research money needs to come from the private sector (of course some from government too) and the research needs to be led and conducted by the university. I believe that Hilary Beckles is making an honest effort in obtaining private sector finding.

    A research culture will come when UWI graduates start to return some of their earnings to the university. Imagine how much work the university could do if every single UWI graduate committed themselves to giving UWI $100 per year from graduation until death, and to leave UWI a gift of $1,000 in their wills. I know that every single UWI graduate can afford to give at this small but CONSISTENT level. Remember our foreparents used to say that a sheep head a day worth more than a hoghead a year. UWI needs tens of thousands of small but consistent donations from its graduates, sensible funding from government and substantial donations from corporate Barbados.

    That is what we, all o’ we have to do for ourselves.

    That is how research is born and nurtured.


  33. But there is no point expecting the private sector to put in $100,000 donations when we ain’t willing to give $2 per week.

    I know that there are a lot of old ladies on basic old age pension who would be ashamed to put only $2 on the Sunday collection plate, and yet we can’t seem to get UWI grads to give back $2 per week.

    Stupseeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  34. Thanks Ian. I look forward to reading the research. Brain drain is a matter which concerns me. My grand children have to be educated here, and nursed and doctored here and I have to grow old here. I want Barbados to remain a good place in which to loie, to work, to recreate, and to grow old. And I know that it cannot be done without the young people.


  35. Good food for thought J…very well put…
    You are talking about a whole shift in culture and how we view philanthropy…and even how we view our own institutions…
    A few yrs ago one of my students told me she’d rather pay money to go overseas to do a one year masters in the UK before she’d pay to do a similar program at UWI…GO FIGURE…
    Her argument was that for the same money…she’d get an int’l experience…
    Now…did you see the recent report questioning the quality of British postgrad and their strategic targeting of students from the developing world?
    Hundreds of students are graduating with UK Masters that cannot string a sentence together in English…the ratio is now 60:40% of foreign students over domestic (domestic reading EU students as well)…
    This is tantamount to buying a degree…Oooops…did I say that?
    So it all comes back to believing in our own institutions…


  36. No. I did not see that U.K report. Please post the link if you can. I think that the U.K needs to up all their master’s programs to 2 years and I am sure that eventually they will.

    I have concerns about U.K master’s too. I think that because many of them are so short students do not get to cover the depth or bredth of work that should be expected in a master’s program.


  37. Call for action on degree ‘fraud’

    Hundreds of people have commented
    An influential MP says ministers must “take seriously” the “fraud” of foreign students with poor English gaining postgraduate qualifications in the UK.

    Phil Willis, head of the innovation, universities, science and skills committee, said there was “unease” about the way standards were policed.

    Hundreds of people have e-mailed the BBC to back claims by a whistleblowing lecturer at a leading UK university.

    The government has said it is up to the institutions to monitor quality.

    Mr Willis said: “The government must take this issue seriously.

    It is critically important that where there is evidence of malpractice – or fraud, which is what this is – that it is teased out as quickly as possible

    Phil Willis
    “The quality of our higher education product – with several of our universities in the top 100 universities in the world – is dependent on the quality of research and the quality of the students doing the research, and that must not be jeopardised. ”

    “It is hugely disappointing that the academic cannot report this to his or her own university or to Hefce [England’s funding body for higher education].

    “It is critically important that where there is evidence of malpractice – or fraud, which is what this is – that it is teased out as quickly as possible.”

    Standards

    Liberal Democrat Mr Willis added: “There is unease at the moment at the way higher education is policed for standards.

    “There is a need for universities themselves to put into place transparent plans to assess and monitor the quality of all post-graduate students to make sure that they reach rigorous standards for post graduate work.”

    E-mails to the BBC News website suggest the practice of awarding post-graduate degrees to overseas students with the most basic of English is so widespread that it is taken for granted – to the detriment of all involved.

    Hundreds have been in touch to back claims by a whistleblower at one of the country’s most famous universities.

    The universities say there are rigorous procedures to prevent such things.

    But this is regarded with incredulity in many of the e-mails, most of which are from current or former students, lecturers or course administrators with first hand knowledge of the system.

    Anti-plagiarism

    The root cause is said to be the pressure to retain the fee income from foreign students, who typically pay three times what home students pay for their courses.

    Some claim the academics supervising postgraduate courses ghost write or heavily edit their students’ work to make it comprehensible, or that plagiarism is ignored or not punished.

    Another allegation is that students buy essays or theses overseas, written in languages other than English, then have them translated and submit them in the UK as their own work.

    This circumvents the anti-plagiarism software which checks what has been submitted against previous academic work – in English.

    Here is a selection from the hundreds of comments received. You can contact us using the form at the end:

    ——————————————————————————–


  38. J…I couldnt agree with you more on the need to address the issue of the one-year Masters…but this is a very sensitive issue for me since a lot of my professional colleagues have them…
    The universities have found a way to wiggle out of this by diffentiating between a taught masters and a research masters…
    The former requires a ‘final paper’ and the latter requires a thesis…but they argue that the 12 courses required are pretty much the same…
    All this really came about when Thatcher cut funding to the universities and basically left them bankrupt..so they had to find innovative ways to bring in money…so by shortening the masters programs, they were able to increase their intake and subsequently their income…
    They’ve also gone a step further and are argressively offering offshore programs…To give you an idea…the University of London was in Trinidad two weeks ago pushing their offshore degrees…
    In fact, Trinidad has the best set up in the Caribbean for those who wish to pursue an offshore degree…
    The UK universities have counter-argued that this income is used to fund research after losing much government funding in the Thatcher years…
    Think about this for a minute…a long minute…the money from the students in the developing world…is being used to fund British research…think about this for a minute…


  39. Tell me smthg doh…de 11+ exam is only English, Math and an essay right? There’s no exam is music or painting or sports at 11, right?
    Hmmmmmm! Then uh wonder if there is some correlation between strong academic performance and high output in de arts and sports….hmmmmmmmmm!
    When ah look at de names emerging at de top of their respective fields in entertainment, theater, sports, visual arts…ah tink ah see a similar pattern emerging…ah tink at least 80% o dem went to older secondary schools….hmmmmmmmm…
    Maybe Pareto was right afterall…
    Wha u tink Georgie Porgie…?

  40. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Sucess in sports, entertainment, theater, visual arts all require discipline as well as ability. These characteristics are usually exhibited by the smartest of us, so I am not surprised at your findings.

    My HC colleagues & Lodge & Cawmere friends at UWI were sharp on retort and reparti, could talk shit and make you laff while using the same shit talk in analogies to illustrate the most abstract issues in Chemistry and Physics.

    My son and his friends who also attended HC could use shit talk entertainingly to discuss most things. We often think that sports and entertaing and music is only for those who are not academics. Not true!

    In the 70’s when the Cathedral Choir was at its high point in my oinion it was led by John Flethcher who filled it up with boys who he taught at Cawmere. They made a sweeter sound than the chaps who made the first record in Westminister in 70.


  41. Ian Walcott

    I have to apologize to you for my initial inclination to dismiss you as another BLP fraud crying sour grapes. You have made some insightful comments here and I appreciate the perspective that you bring to this topic.

    I have a comment and a question.

    Comment:

    You see that talk you have about meritocracy, I think that you need to break that down for us. It is to important to be lost in such a mystical technical term.
    You mean that appointments, promotions, salary increases, positions on Boards, election to government etc should all be based on MERIT???

    That persons holding positions of authority should be responsible for the results achieved.

    …If these are the kind of things that meritocracy mean then I feel that you really need to be heard.

    Obviously you know that the REASON that leaders are not interested in research is that they do not want to be distracted by facts.

    The question;

    Your deduction that good artist also seem to come largely from the older schools may be flawed.
    The problem is that the 80% of our children that (quite naturally) does not fall in the top of the academic heap are nonetheless forced to follow the same regimen as bright sparks like you… don’t you expect that they will see themselves as failures… .at everything?

    If there was another 11 plus in arts and music, I suggest that a different 20% would emerge at the top. If these were then channeled to specialist schools……

    …and if there was an 11 plus exam in sport, I suggest… etc etc…

    In the present system, there are a small subset of the 20% of academics who are ALSO talented in arts, sport, music etc… but now you are talking about 20% of the 20% of academics…something like 4% of the original population per area, rather than the potential 20% in each area of specialty.

    It that not the next step in advancing education in Barbados?


  42. Here is an excellent definition: http://bitbucket.icaap.org/dict.pl?alpha=M

    MERITOCRACY =
    Rule by those chosen on the principle of merit. The principle of merit is consistent with liberal theory and assumes equality of opportunity and occupational advancement based on achievement rather than ascription. Emile Durkheim’s notion of the ‘spontaneous division of labour’ and the argument of Kingsley Davis and Wilbert Moore (1945) on the function of inequality both depend on the belief that in a liberal society people will be rewarded on the basis of talent or merit and that the more talented and thus meritorious will come to occupy the more important positions in society.

    Bush tea…I agree with you that specialized schools might yield better results in all areas…the US has this practice…there are a number of charter schools and magnet schools all throughout the system…and this such a system is not at odds with meritocracy…


  43. Man scrap the damn 11 plus exam and stop making frigging excuses. I am tired of the foolish excuses. Send people to schools in their area and mix up the students .

    This old colonial ignorant thing got to go man –
    best and worst -this status thing-one set of people want to feel that them better than the rest because they went school this place and the next, beacuse they drive a bigger car, have more money, live in a bigger hoise, is a doctor and not a garbage man—-all this crap got to go

    stop making friggin excuses ——-I am fed up of the same thing over and over

    IT AINT WORKING
    Simple ! —

    because life is simple—–it is complicated by selfish people

    call me simplistic if you want to !

  44. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Bush tea wrote

    You see that talk you have about meritocracy, I think that you need to break that down for us. It is to important to be lost in such a mystical technical term.
    You mean that appointments, promotions, salary increases, positions on Boards, election to government etc should all be based on MERIT??? That persons holding positions of authority should be responsible for the results achieved.
    …If these are the kind of things that meritocracy mean then I feel that you really need to be heard.

    Bush tea you know full well what the mean. Its is sad that it does not work that way.
    From primary school days we were taught to excel. We were taught to do no sinful action and speak no angry word etc. My father told us “if you are going to be garbage collector—BE THE BEST! But when you leave school. You find it’s a party man, or a white man, or somebody that bulling that getting through.

    These are things that the young people observe. They see their parents struggling as hard working, law abiding citizens but not getting the promotions before others that don’t deserve it. So they wonder what is the point? Many give up from early.

    The 80% of our children that (quite naturally) does not fall in the top of the academic heap should have some exposure to the same regimen as the so called bright sparks
    However if there was another 11 plus in arts and music, I suggest that the same 20% would emerge at the top because of their desire to compete and to excel, and because they are more disciplined and attentive. Because I loved singing in the church choir I saved my lunch money to have bus fair to get to choir practice and Sunday services in case my father didn’t go.

    I agree with you that there should be a continued sorting of students my interests and aptitude and a channeling to specialist schools. However, there are a number of doctors in Barbados who were excellent photographers as schoolboys. There was no way we could tell one’s parents in those days that you wanted to be an artist or a photographer. You had to be a doctor or lawyer. When I realized that my son was a budding artist and cartoonist from early, I was channeling him in that direction.

    There should be examination of children for visual and hearing defects, attention deficits, and along with core subjects those with obvious talent should be channeled in the direction of their apparent skills and interests.

    But we are talking about some people in authority thinking, caring, listening, and acting to do what is correct even if GP or bushtea or Ian not in the right party, or the right lodge etc

    There is nothing wrong in saying I prejudice against GP or bushtea or Ian BUT their proposal is the best one we have at this time. Let us invite them to tell us more. Let us invite them to help us implement it.

    We have more than an adequate amount of folk in Bim (not even counting those in exile) who are qualified, knowledgeable and in many ways equipped to facilitate a 100% improvement in our social affairs in every respect.

  45. Straight talk Avatar

    Hey Bush:

    Are you now placing meritocracy above rightousness

  46. Straight talk Avatar

    Sorry about that premature ejaculation.

    Encore.

    Hey Bush:

    Are you now placing meritocracy above righteousness.

    The meritocrats will be chuffed as mintballs by your last submission, but the righteous will wait calmly in line, and sigh.

    I’m losing you man, what percentage will be the salvated few?


  47. ST

    You lost me somewhat!

    .. placing meritocracy above righteousness? what is the connection?
    Are these not two unrelated issues?


  48. Straight Talk,

    I believe that I see where you are going, but let me assure you that the two issues are nor mutually exclusive.

    Righteousness is about character. It is about a personal level of development that leads a person to always CHOOSE to do the right thing.
    (that is Bush tea’s personal definition – there is probably a more correct version).

    A meritocracy is about assigning responsibility (and all that goes with it), on the basis of merit.
    Jesus illustrated this concept via the parable of the talents, and he summarized by concluding that, in his kingdom, the highly talented will be given much, while the untalented will lose -even the little that they buried and failed to develop….

    He also admonished those of his followers who were faithful in small things that they would be given responsibility in major areas as a result.

    A meritocracy is the only really wise way that any operation should be run. Put your best people in position of responsibility.

    Not your family and friends
    Not those who bribe you
    Not your women
    Not those who are your ‘yes men/women’
    Not your brightest (most degrees)
    Not your
    Not the cheapest
    ….. But those who demonstrate that they are best suited to do the job. And this potential is best demonstrated by having excelled at a previous position.

    …also, should it become clear that the appointee is incapable of doing the best job, (does not merit the position), then they should be immediately replaced with someone who has the potential to do the job.

    This is the culture that has put Singapore in the position that it now holds…. and the lack of such culture has been our undoing at all levels in Barbados.

    A meritocracy thrives on research, measurement of results, strategic planning, openness, freedom of information.
    (you can go on the Internet and find almost anything about Singapore – and almost nothing about Barbados government)

    What research what?!?
    …as I said, in Barbados, our leaders do not wish to be distracted with facts…

    ….man Ian, your definition got in too many big words for me, you think I went to HC?
    …How ya like mine?


  49. Asiba,
    Why you don’t go and work on your song nuh? What you talking bout? I thought you had more sense, but you getting on like Peter Wickham now…

    You think we want all citizens like you? When you can beat Gabby or Bag we will listen to you…

    What mix up what!?!

    Stop trying to pull down the best thing we have in Barbados – an education system that at least has the capacity to develop the top academic talents we have.

    Why you don’t advocate starting a cultural college to develop artistic youth? you frighten that even more youngsters will come and pelt more licks in your calypso tail?
    …all we need is a cultural 11 plus, then we can channel these to the ‘National College of Music and Arts
    (…and GP, those that are good at BOTH academics AND arts can choose where they wish to go…)

    Instead of trying to pull down an excellent institution that produced world greats like EWB, Tom Adams, Richie Haynes and thousands others you should be lobbying to extend the same system to produce some more greats like Sir Garry, Obadele, Rihanna, Arturo etc.

    I always thought you was a builder not a destroyer….

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