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Clive Lloyd Shames The Caribbean

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ckive lloyd-and-wife

other woman of clive lloyd

The right image shows one of the icons of West Indies cricket, former West Indies cricket captain Clive Lloyd with his wife when things were good. Based on media reports he is in the midst of a messy divorce which involves Bertha Joseph seen in the image on the left. Why have we focused on this story which is all too prevalent in modern society?

Our thanks to the BU family member who popped this story.

The BU household feels very strongly about the importance of the family unit. Even more important is the institution of marriage which has been trivialized and bastardized in the modern society. Clive Lloyd has been held up by the establishment in the West Indies as an icon. This has inevitably translated him to a role model for many children across the cricket loving Caribbean. The ongoing public spectacle may have reverberating consequences for how our small islands continue to develop on the socio-psychological front. The article in the Mail details several incidents of infidelity by Clive Lloyd, one of those times said to have involved a female who was the girl friend of a team player. While we do not intend to judge the man, we have no problem speaking to the issue of the betrayal by Lloyd of his marriage vows. People like Lloyd must understand the influence which their icon status plays in shaping impressionable behaviours from the societies whence they have come.

Clive Lloyd like many men before him have demonstrated the willingness to succumb to the lure of the ‘outside-woman’. Some may say that he was not happy in his union with Bertha but there is a right way to deal with the challenge of a failed marriage.

We hope that his former wife is able to get the fair settlement she deserves after 37 years of suffering.

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100 responses to “Clive Lloyd Shames The Caribbean”

  1. Clive Lloyd Shames The Caribbean

    […] unknown wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerpt […]

  2. Bimbro Avatar
    Bimbro

    I guess his wife thought she was aiding the institution of caribbean marriage by raking this story all over the British press?

    I smell the stench of money here!

  3. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Well he is from Guyana, right, and according to you all everything is bad in Guyana, from Guyana, about Guyana, failed state, racist state, now philandering Guyanese man, so de man living up to he namesake, beautiful Guyana

  4. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Since when Guyana is the Caribbean. He shamed himself, if you ask me, not GUYANA in the least as we are not responsible for the actions of our citzens, whether they have entered Barbados illegally, or they are egaged in extra-martial affairs. or they are exibiting racist attitudes in the USA.

  5. jdid Avatar
    jdid

    man clive lloyd shame heself and his family. nobody else

  6. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Man Bimbro read de article nuh!. A west Indian man doesn’t need any reason tuh cheat on his woman. It is a cultural believe, particularly amongst those of Clive’s age, that a “deputy is essential.” Now, it is equally a practice to this West Indian male male behaviour, for West Indian women to withhold sex after attaining marriage, or to just decide on their own and without any warning to their husbands that ” I done wid dah (sex)”, dah fuh de young people”. It is is also not uncommon amongst West Indian woman of Clive’s wife age to assume old age at 30. 😀 Now which of these practices precipitated the other is not known to me, but because of the maternal bond between a mother, her son and daughter, has always been stronger, and practice longer than any such bond between a Father, his son, and daughter, it is likely to have influence what we are seeing today.

    ….where young men are more likely to display family nurturing than the males relatives before them and where today’s women having inherited their Mothers deep suspicion of men leading them to, at the first sign of relationship issues to “break up”, file for divorce, file for child support, deny child visitation to the father etc.

    It is as if the Village Ram lifestyle although not as prevalent is still responsible for a lot of familial and relationship issues today.

    Whether it is the perception of the 13 older secondary schools as colleges/universities, or that the white man in Barbados is still keeping us down, and that we are powerless to do anything about, or this believe that todays generation of Bajan men should be judge by the actions of the older generation although they may be practical and current evidence to the contrary, it seems as though reality has less significance and is secondary to our beliefs and perception. As long as i continue to wear my red tinted glasses the world will always be? ……….

    From the contents of the article i cannot conclude that Lloyd’s wife withheld sex early on and that this is what drove him into the arms of another, willing to deliver. It seems clearly to me that Clive Lloyd did what, then, West Indian men were very much known for “Take foop wherever and from whom ever will offer” I am at this point willing to call this nothing more than a Village Ram who took his show on the road globally. 😀 Since these times seem to be the age of the “VICTIM” he could plead guilty and blame his Father and other male relatives for setting a bad example for him to follow all those years. Yuh never know his wife might believe such crap. 😀

    Clive Lloyd is no hero of mine and could never be. I will take to his cricket exploits when cricket is the center of my attention, beyond that i have no other uses for him, he couldn’t talk to me about anything else uless he lived it. This is the inherent problem with sociaties today. We take people who did well in one endevour and make them, in our minds responsible for other things that we do not know them to do well, and make make them icons and role models in general. That is our mistake.

  7. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Adrian HInds, you say Clive Lloyd is no hero to me (you )and could never be………and that is because you are Guyanaphobic….and not your theory that we made him a hero not knowing what type of person he is……well he is not the only philandering man around, most of them are…it is male nature to have realtionships with many ladies…and by the way his father was an upright man……resident of the Queenstown section of our capital city

  8. Bimbro Avatar
    Bimbro

    We take people who did well in one endevour and make them, in our minds responsible for other things that we do not know them to do well, and make make them icons and role models in general. That is our mistake.

    ******************

    Well said, Adrian. Admit I did n’t read the ariticle in detail but sufficient to gather the drift. Like u, Lloyd has never been a hero of mine, not even for his cricketing exploits. Suffice to say the man fills me with boredom!

    As for the Jamaican, councillor he’s now courting – all I can say is OMG!

    One day I might begin to comprehend that union but it would n’t be for an extremely, long time!!

    As for the machinations of caribbean love post age 30, I have to tek your word fuh dat, boa!!!! 🙂

    Mind u, met an old Jamaican flame of mine, not so long ago, and she was still ‘ready to go’!!!! 🙂 I had to tell she ‘look, cool down gal’!!!! 🙂 Did n’t feel the same about her now as I did ‘back then’!!!!

    Anyway, agree with your assertion. I don’t know who makes these people ‘heroes’ of ours in the first place! I’ve only a few caribbean heros: Garfield and Viv rank highly, among them!

    Here’s another failed ‘caribbean hero’, Dwayne Chambers, not to mention the disgraced and disgraceful Ben Johnson! I won’t ask you where they’re fom – I know u already know that!

    Three cheers for the Barbadian heroes!!! 🙂

  9. Carson C. Cadogan Avatar
    Carson C. Cadogan

    His wife should take him to the cleaners.

    Get as much as you can get, honey.

    Another useless Guyanese.

  10. Bimbro Avatar
    Bimbro

    Adrian, while we’re on the subject of best practice, although not in marriage this time, can u offer some perception into the Barbadian psyche?

    Whenever, I phone Bim on business, I’m usually answered by a very, pleasant and well spoken receptionist who asks my name. When I tell her my surname she invariably requests my christian name too, and she’s not being in any way, familiar. Why is that? If u imagine the no. of business calls which businesses in Bim must receive every year, each one delayed by a perfectly, pointless question, that must amount to a very, large number of working hours lost in Bim every year through, ‘hot air’! You tell the person u really want to speak to your first name, anyway, if they want to know, so why waste precious time!!

    But, don’t listen to me. I’m only an ignorant Britisher!!!

    Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  11. Inquiring Housewife Avatar
    Inquiring Housewife

    I agree that Mr. LLoyd has shamed no one but himself. I am truly sorry for his loyal wife of 37 years, she just leaned a hard lesson. When a man does something and gets away with it more than once then he feels in his limited mind that he has a visa to continue. We woman because we are afraid to raise our children without a man stay and are disrespected for what, the children and now grown and gone and she is now leaving. to start over? No i say when he does it onces forgive, twice maybe try counselling three times then cut his a** and move on.

    We women need to respect ourselves and men will respect us. It all comes down to self love. Not sure why he left or if she withheld sex, maybe she was an acrobac in the bed room but he still felt the need to go out. She needs now to love herself and keep making tracks

  12. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Anonymous // May 21, 2008 at 11:05 am

    Adrian HInds, you say Clive Lloyd is no hero to me (you )and could never be………and that is because you are Guyanaphobic….and not your theory that we made him a hero not knowing what type of person he is……well he is not the only philandering man around, most of them are…it is male nature to have realtionships with many ladies…and by the way his father was an upright man……resident of the Queenstown section of our capital city
    =================================

    It might better serve your intent to ask me about mine, rather than conclude as if you know when you clearly don’t.
    So I am not only indifferent to “Indo-Guyanese” I am now cast as being fearful of Guyana as a result of my views on a Afro-Guyanese’s philandering ways. I made my anti-hero comments in opposition to BU’s view of a sports personality as a Icon that we can also take ques from in other areas of life namely marriage and relationships. I would done no less and indeed hold the same views on Rihanna, Politicians, and all sports and entertainment Icons in North America and elsewhere. The very plain fact that i framed my comments as West Indian, is totally ignored by you. I am not even going to suggest that this is indicative of anything, particularly the chasms that may exist between your perceptions of and the reality that Guyana is today. No i will not. 😀

  13. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Bimbro // May 21, 2008 at 11:47 am

    Adrian, while we’re on the subject of best practice, although not in marriage this time, can u offer some perception into the Barbadian psyche?

    =================================

    ha ha ha ha Bimbro, the things you experience do make me laugh. 😀 I cannot say that this particular exchange is the result of the Bajan psyche, however i am willing to accept that it may be the result of our willingness to be procedurial without been rational. This is not a Bajan thing, this occurs alot in India where workers are very smart and process driven but are not known for thinking out side the box. To think, do, lead and follow, at any given time, is very difficult for most humans. We tend to find a comfort zone and stick to it.

  14. Bimbro Avatar
    Bimbro

    Oh God, Adrian. Is that the reason? Then Bajan workers must be very, comfortable, so I don’t expect to hear of any strikes!!!!

    Additionally, it might help to explain why not only does the receptionist ask you what it’s about you then have to explain again, to the person you’re really, calling when you finally, get put through!!!!

    Guess how much business I plan to do with Bim, then!! That’s right Adrian, not much at all!!!!

    But as I said, Bajans know it all aready, so doan mine me, I is only an iggrunt Britisher!!!

    Laaadddddddddddddddddddd!!!!

  15. Cynty Avatar
    Cynty

    How any woman stays with a man that disrepects her like that I don’t know. But it’s their business, not ours.

  16. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Cynty // May 21, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    How any woman stays with a man that disrepects her like that I don’t know. But it’s their business, not ours.
    =================================
    This is very common among that generation of West Indians. It was very common in Barbados, and may still be, this is one of the reason that Henry Forde, i think it was, ..brought legislation to acknowledge a woman’s common law status. I don’t know when England would have enacted such legislation, but it may very well be another example of someone taking their understanding of life in their home country and just assuming the same to be the case in another. At any rate she clearly stated that her approach (suffering) was informed by her Mother. Procedural not rational? you bet!

  17. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    The article in the Mail details several incidents of infidelity by Clive Lloyd etc. His wife is a saint no doubt.

    The article in the Mail details Mrs LLoyd’s side of the story, whether accurately so or not. The article, however, does not detail Mr Lloyd’s side of the story.

    How can we adjudicate without all the facts.

    We are getting on here as if women dont do the verey same thing to men.

    The Scripture details that “The heart is decietful and desperately wicked, who can know it?”

    This is the heart of the issue – the deceitfulness of sin. Why are we judging Lloyd?

    I say let him that is without sin cast the first stone.

    Both men horning women and women horning men. Its been going on for time immemorial. God will be the judge.

  18. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    This thread started today and already has more responses than the more important one on the conditions of our hospital, or the one from the BLP blog on the ineptitude of the Minister of Health.

    We are more interested in gossip than real issues.

  19. ROBOT Avatar
    ROBOT

    CANT you see that it is one and the same woman

    if there are two women one might be clone of the other

    as far as i can see -it is the same woman in both pictures

  20. ROBOT Avatar
    ROBOT

    ok i now see why west indies cricket in trouble
    lloydie batting on too many wickets
    playing too many balls off the hip to slips or deep deep deep in fine leg

  21. The Devils Advocate Avatar
    The Devils Advocate

    Both men horning women and women horning men. Its been going on for time immemorial. God will be the judge.
    ————————————————
    Why is it that this statement is always bandied around in these situations? Is it as simplistic as that?…….. a man has a right to horn women because ‘dem women does do it too’?. What does that have to do with THIS situation. We are discussing Sir Clive Lloyd. Is there some proof that his wife was horning him? That she withheld sex or ‘turn down de pot’ at thirty. We all know that for some men the wife could still be ‘percolating’ and the husband will still stray. The wife could be a super model and a goddess in the bedroom and he will horn her with a woman 300 lbs and toothless (some perverts like toothless). There is no figuring out peoples tastes. Why do we always assume that something had to be wrong at home. Some men (and some women) just greedy…..nuh matter how sweet de meat home is……..wild meat always seems to be more tasty. Some wild meat is into things that the wife is not interested in doing (wife swapping, threesomes, bestiality etc). I know of a man who horned his wife because he wanted to try ‘trunking’ and she was not willing, so he found someone that was. It is basically a taste for ‘extras’. Do you agree?

  22. Fairplay Avatar
    Fairplay

    Until we hear Clive Lloyd’s side of the story we cannot make a judgment that he did something wrong. If he did cheat on his wife, then many Barbadian males cannot throw stones at him as this is an art in Barbados. Just one small reminder would be our former Prime Minister who was not ridiculed when he held that high office. He even had children outside his marriage

  23. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    GP the article said that Clive LLoyd was reached for comment on his wife’s statement and none was given. I feel comfortable with my opinions, base on what we know, the cultural context to it, and the unwilligness of individual members of a group to apply rationality to certain behaviours attributed to the group.

    ….Stoning IS (um still is practice in muslim countries) … always intended to cause death as the punishment. “ajudication” as you termed my opinion, aportions guilt only, and does not lead to any punishment let alone death, and while i will never agree that one must be free and clear of any and all foibles in order to judge the actions of someone else, I have not cheated on my wife once let alone the multiples of times and the openess with Clive Lloyd is clearly guilty of.

    …..As if you did not know I Adrian Hinds will discuss whatever topic, whenever I feel too. I will not practice your group think, that seems to suggest, there be a hiearchy of importance to topics we can discuss, or that we cannot dicuss mutiple topics as the same, or that we may been dicussing this the QEH long before you have had access to a computer, and group of bajans online.

    http://www.barbadosforum.com/index.php?showtopic=1029

  24. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    The Devils Advocate // May 21, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    Both men horning women and women horning men. Its been going on for time immemorial. God will be the judge.
    ————————————————
    Why is it that this statement is always bandied around in these situations? Is it as simplistic as that?…….. a man has a right to horn women because ‘dem women does do it too’?.

    =================================
    Devils Advocate, do you see any difference between this opinon and the one contian in the Nation Editorial that BU wrote about and that is titled “STOP BEATING UP ON THE HOSPITAL”?

    Both opinions agree that we shouldn’t voice our disapproval because either others are doing it or are others are worst. This approach to looking at problems seem to be a Bajan national passtime.

  25. The Devils Advocate Avatar
    The Devils Advocate

    Both opinions agree that we shouldn’t voice our disapproval because either others are doing it or are others are worst. This approach to looking at problems seem to be a Bajan national passtime.
    ———————————————————-
    I completely agree. It is time for people to own up when they have done something wrong and face the music. We have put the label ‘culture’ on this village ram mentality but whose ‘culture’ is it? Are we going to accept wholesale negative aspects of historical practices and promote them under the heading of culture? I read the article and it seemed like the normal scenario for couples of that time where appearances were more important than the relationship itself. (also a culture) It is significant (and telling) that Sir Clive is not contesting the divorce. Most women of his wife’s age would have a similar story to tell because that is the way they were socialised…..not to question your husband no matter how damning the situation. None of us can know the truth…… or judge.

  26. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Fairplay // May 21, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    Until WE hear Clive Lloyd’s side of the story we cannot make a judgment that he did something wrong.
    =================================

    WE ,fairplay? WE? Left me out uh your ROYAL WE. Clive Lloyd had his chance to air his side of the story, and chose not to refute his wife statements, or to add anything that would cast some of the blame for the failed marriage to her. He very clearly did not do someting RIGHT on several occasions. Where is it not wrong to show up at important functions, in public, with your girlfriend, and not your wife? Is that not something that can be concidered wrong? Sorry de press rolled and I have opinionated.

  27. Whistling Duck Avatar
    Whistling Duck

    Both Barbados WordPress and Barbados Freepress have degenerated into something like tabloid exposes. Please have discussions about what really matters to the country and not dish up all this filth.

  28. The Devils Advocate Avatar
    The Devils Advocate

    Both Barbados WordPress and Barbados Freepress have degenerated into something like tabloid exposes. Please have discussions about what really matters to the country and not dish up all this filth.
    ————————————————————
    Commenting on the extra marital affair of a man who has been held up as a ‘role model’ in our society constitues ‘filth’????

  29. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Man Devils Advocate (apologies if you are a woman):D whistling Duck label and comments says it all fortunately for me I am not affected by smell via this medium.

    They start their post with the name “DUCK” and ends it with the word “FILTH” have you ever kept duck s your back yard or have ever been to a house that did? 😀 be carefull where you step. 😀 …..But W Duck if you can find time between your expositions of what constitutes filth to tell us and probably lead a discussion on those things that you deem to be of importance please do.

  30. TYT Avatar
    TYT

    More useless filth from BU.

  31. Miss Guyana Avatar
    Miss Guyana

    All I have to say is hat Jamican that he is dating did obeah on him so that he can be with her. Why wouldClive Lloyd do this to his lovely Guyanese wife sure beats me. I hope his lovely Guyanese wife gets all the money and leave him hig and dry with that Lady Lord Mayor of Londontown, then we will see if she will still have him. He shamed himself. Mr. Duck you eys past us, here you are calling Clive Lloyd filth…look he is the best cricket player that the world has ever known and as such Guyana Stadium should be re-named Clive Lloyd Guyana Stadium….We know what Jamaicans give and I am sure Clive was lured by that Jamaican mistress though trickery, so men must beware of Jamaicans..see what happened to a great man. Bye Oh goodness my favourite show on on NCN Guyana TV . Have to stop wrting .Bye

  32. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Adrian

    First of all, I was not responding to your post per se. Like you, I was stating my opinion.

    As far as I am concerned, Clive Lloyd was a good cricketer. I dont see that the details of his marital breakdown- regardless to his at fault- is so relevant to me; though it may be relevant to you and others. We do like our gossip. Dont we? That is the hallmark of our society.

    So Clive Lloyd is a sinner; an adulterer. And so are many others. There are many who have not actually been unfaithful to thier spouses. But they have thought of it, wished they could or wanted to. Jesus says that those are just as guilty as if they had. He also said as I quoted in a similar context in John chapter 8 “He that is without sin, let him cast the first stone.”

    You dont have to agree with me, but I like his words. He also said in John 7:24 Judge righteous judgement and not by the apearances. You can not judge without all the facts.

    And I dont see why Clive Lloyd has to talk to the tabloids or tell us his side of the story– it is his busyness.

    Which of us has always been right? We are all sinners. Like it or not!

  33. Please! Avatar
    Please!

    leaves peoples’ private life along!

  34. Jukecheckedeyskirt Avatar
    Jukecheckedeyskirt

    Adrian Hinds…..Very articulately stated and accurate in your analysis. A good goose is not necessarily a tasty goose because what makes him succulent is not his goodness but how tender he is at the cooking. At the end of the day no one is interested in how good the goose is but how it taste.

    Clive Lloyd’s acheivements speaks for themselves but that has nothing to do with his moral standing to decency and what is right.

    Owen Arthur is the first Prime Minister to have a historic three terms in office but the impressions he have left in the mouths of many moral Barbadians is quite a bitter taste to swallow. Does that means that he is an icon and role model to follow. CLive Lloyd is flesh and all flesh is subject to sin and acts of ruthlessness. Popularity, goodness, historic acheivements, or wealth is not equal to morality, ethics or good standing because all flesh is susceptible to ruthlessness. Most of the time we all pretend to be what we are not and in the public eye we are very good at putting on mask showing the actors quality all of us possess.

  35. Bush tea Avatar
    Bush tea

    I am with you GP.

    I personally feel that this should have remained private business. I see his declining to rebut publicly as a plus for him…
    ..unfortunately that leaves a one-sided story.

    I am so happy to see that so many of us qualify to cast the first stone… no wonder this is such a righteous place… 😉

    No outsider knows what goes on in a marriage – sometimes not even others in the same household.

    … and judging from the outside is always risky and speculative….maybe we should just pray for them all….

    How does this shame the Caribbean David? …that LLoyd is only human and not perfect?

    … I was not aware that he took an oath to be Mr. perfect any more so than any other of us… now if he was a priest, or teacher….or if he ran a blog….

  36. South Avatar
    South

    If it is shaming of the Caribbean to have an outside woman, one must start with Owen S Arthur. Not because he was the first to have multiple women, but because as a national leader he should be expected to set the example.

    Let us not forget though that many wives tolerate their husband having an outside woman because it relieves them of marital duties. Also we cannot forget that many young women are happy to have a sugar daddy (or two or three) who is married. They should not complain when in 15 years they are the ones wondering where their husbands are.

    comes around, goes around!

  37. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Good God, they were married for 37 years……a very good “run” and better than most. People change and what once attracted them to each other also changes. We can’t possibly know the ins and outs of anyone’s marriage. Based on their current ages, they married very young. Peoples dreams and goals and desires change in 37 years.
    How do we know that the wife didn’t love all the fame and money that her husband provided her with but lost sight of the MAN himself and the love that he needed?

  38. me Avatar
    me

    Absolutely none of my business. Dont know hy you think it is yours David?

  39. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    GP you response is more of the same as your first. My opinion of Clive Lloyd’s actions as told by his wife and which he did not refute cannot be akin to “casting a stone” in the context that Jesus of Nazareth made the famous statement “Ye without sin cast the first stone” The story as told in the New Testament, first tells of an incident that preceeded this utterence from Jesus. People were actually assemble to pelt, throw, indeed cast stones at someone for some transgression. Nothing that i have done can be simlar in deed to this very real action. All i did was judge Clive Lloyd’s actions. Now if you had invoke the other blibical statement “Judge not less ye be also judge” i would concede some merit to it’s use in defining my responses to this thread. But atlast it would not be enough to stop me from so doing, since to my mind the statement sets a condition under which I can judge others. Judge not LESS YE BE JUDGED ALSO, clearly gives one the license to judge others as long as they themselves do not mind being judged. I do not mind being judged by others, so i will judge Clive Lloyd. 😀

  40. Adrian Hinds Avatar
    Adrian Hinds

    Bush tea // May 21, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    I am with you GP.

    I personally feel that this should have remained private business. I see his declining to rebut publicly as a plus for him…
    ..unfortunately that leaves a one-sided story.

    I am so happy to see that so many of us qualify to cast the first stone… no wonder this is such a righteous place…

    No outsider knows what goes on in a marriage – sometimes not even others in the same household.
    =================================

    Two people where in this marriage, one decided to talk. It is no longer private, and it is not gossip becuase it is now public.

    In your BU published treatise ”
    Responding To The Challenges Of Expensive Energy” you ended with a vague hint at the way forward which led to ask for more detials as it suggested to me that you where a practising Christian. Your response to that request was equally as vague. Be that as it may. Your response and that of GP are similar to the response non-christians often throw out to Christians for judging the actions of others.

    Read the following and tell me what you think….

    “”Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

    This is another counterfeiting of the Scriptures many have tried to use to shame us for what we do in his name. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” is not speaking judging. Let me explain.

    Using the KJV this time, in John 8:1 – 11 scribes and Pharisees had caught a woman in the act of adultery (the woman commonly referred to as the prostitute) and told Jesus who was teaching in the temple that the Mosaic Law required she be stoned to death. Trying to make an opportunity of this to trick Jesus that they might accuse Him, they, with stones in hand, asked Jesus what He says about the Law. After Jesus tried to ignore their repeated questioning, He told them “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” One by one each man dropped his stone and walked away.

    Jesus was not arguing with the judgment. Nor was Jesus arguing the law nor the woman’s guilt. Jesus was arguing with our right to execute the woman. Once all the men had dropped their stones Jesus confronted the woman and asked her if any of the men were still there to condemn her. When she answered “No man, Lord”, Jesus told her that neither did He – He forgave her of her sin. He did not excuse the sin of adultery/prostitution, he forgave her of it. All that is sinful before forgiveness is still sinful after forgiveness. Not only was Jesus not afraid to call a sin a sin, He was not afraid to call a sinner a sinner. He even reminded her of the sin of adultery/prostitution by telling her “Go and sin no more.”

    The point of this as applicable to this article? Jesus did not argue the act of judging the chosen behavior of the adulteress/prostitute.

    =================================
    Matt. 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.”

    This is the verse so many use to try to shame Christians for discerning poor behavior, ethics, morals, and values: the “judge not lest ye be judged” verse. So many times people, mostly teens have emailed us saying “judge not lest you be judged” regarding our analysis reports which reveal to their parents the content of movies. Using only Matt 7:1 is entirely incomplete. This verse is not speaking to not judging at all — it is speaking to not judging unfair or any other cheap and selfish way. Read the rest of the story …

    Matt 7:2-5 “For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged [if we judge with an evil heart or dark intent, His judgment of us will reflect it; if we judge nobly and honestly, His judgment of us will reflect that, too], and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you [if we use extremes or exaggerations or other unfair means, our judgment will reflect it]. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye [point out his sins, “minor” in Jesus’ example here] and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye [our own sins, even and especially those we will not admit, magnified by our selective blindness]? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ [tell him of his “minor” sins] when all the time there is a plank in your own eye [that there are greater or the same sins in our own lives which we do nothing about or think we are above]? You hypocrite* [pointing out the sins of others while by pretense we think of ourselves as above sin], first take the plank out of your own eye [sincerely ask the Lord for forgiveness and learn and live the Truth and Light by His Word], and then you will see clearly [be in a righteous position] to remove the speck from your brother’s eye [to judge and to help him out of his bondage to sin].” At Galilee, the Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan, Jesus was talking to the multitudes gathered there after hearing of His message and of His healings to beseech them to not become like the pharisees and hypocrites who think they are above sin.

  41. David Avatar
    David

    The idea of role model is founded in a concept of aspiring to be like another person who has achieved lofty performances. It is a natural human condition to be like another person who has achieve ‘star’ status. People like Lloyd who are candidates for such expectation has an obligation to respond.

  42. Avatar
    Anonymous

    David: You are over reaching yourself. You are just a humble little Caribbean blog. LLoyd has no obligation to respond to you and only had his own conscience to deal with. Quite with the pompsettin do.

  43. Bimbro Avatar
    Bimbro

    I have not cheated on my wife once let alone the multiples of times and the openess with Clive Lloyd is clearly guilty of.

    **************************

    Adrian, I think you’re fortunate to have an extremely, sexy wife! Not all of your brothers are also, so blessed!

    I’m, personally, very lucky! 🙂

    **********************

    MISS Guyana, are you that pretty, yourself, really, or just borrowing the title?

    *************************

    I do not mind being judged by others, so i will judge Clive Lloyd.

    ******************************

    Well said again, Adrian. Those reluctant or unwilling to judge are usually, those with most to be ashamed of! We’ll continue to be proud of who and what we are!

    Adrian, you know I in Barbadian, so what does pompasettin mean! Dat’s a new one to me!!!

  44. David Avatar
    David

    We are big believers in the BU household that when things happen whether at the level of the family unit or government or wherever we all should learn from it. It is the reason we highlighted the importance of marriage and family in the piece, we also touched on infidelity. Instead some people continue to focus on whether it is our business. The fact is this story is all over the English media but as usual we are expected to ignore it? Why should we? Clive Lloyd is a public figure and whether he or anyone agrees many of our people admired him not only as a great cricketer but as a successful individual to aspire.

    Barbadians must understand we cannot continue to compartmentalize how we learn from what is happening around us.

  45. Bimbro Avatar
    Bimbro

    many of our people admired him not only as a great cricketer but as a successful individual to aspire.

    ********************

    Apart from knocking a cricket ball around a field successfully, once or twice, please tell me what qualifies him as ‘a successful individual’! Even I mangaed to do that once or twice, when I was at school! Am I also, accordingly, great!

    It would be comforting to know that I was!

  46. The Devils Advocate Avatar
    The Devils Advocate

    The details of the breakdown of the relationship are not our business. I do believe though that when society affixes the term ‘role model’ to a person they have a responsibility to society. If it was Rhianna would we be saying that her private life has nothing to do with her ‘role model’ status? Children do not separate what you say from what you do and if you get the perks from being raised up by a society then you have a responsibility to continue to earn the respect of the nation and to set a standard for others to follow. Or is it only female role models who are judged by who or how many they sleep with?
    What advice would Sir Clive give to the current young WI cricketers if they ask his advice on how they should conduct themselves? Why do we as a society turn a blind eye to immoral behavior as long as a man is talented in some way. No matter what his talent a man’s major talent should be truth and integrity. We cannot compartmentalise. Remember R. Kelly?

  47. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Jesus was not arguing with the judgment. Nor was Jesus arguing the law nor the woman’s guilt. Jesus was arguing with THEIR right to execute the woman. Once all the men had dropped their stones Jesus confronted the woman and asked her if any of the men were still there to condemn her. When she answered “No man, Lord”, Jesus told her that neither did He – He forgave her of her sin. He did not excuse the sin of adultery/prostitution, he forgave her of it. All that is sinful before forgiveness is still sinful after forgiveness. Not only was Jesus not afraid to call a sin a sin, He was not afraid to call a sinner a sinner. He even reminded her of the sin of adultery/prostitution by telling her “Go and sin no more.”
    The point of this as applicable to this article? Jesus did not argue the act of judging the chosen behavior of the adulteress/prostitute.
    ================================

    First Adrian. I am indeed a Christian, and I do know how to rightly divide the word of truth. Also I am not seeking to defend Clive Lloyd at all.

    It certainly is of great interest that the woman in John 8:1 – 11 who was caught in adultery was committing adultery by herself! After all her partner was not brought for judgement.

    It certainly is of great interest too, that that the law also required that the other party to the adultery be condemned as well.

    The interpretation of John 8:1 – 11 must be taken in the context of the purpose of the writing of John’s Gospel, which is to prove that Jesus is/was God.

    This passage is essentially teaching that ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE SIN AND CONDEMN SINNERS.

    John’s gospel teaches in chapter 5 that God the Father has given all judgement to the Son. Jesus could set the woman free because, only he had the right to do so. His chosing not to condemn the woman relates to the concept that who the Son sets free is free indeed chapter 8 vs 32 and the declaration of Paul in Romans 8 that there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

    Also note that Jesus said let him that is without SIN (and not sins). In other words let him that is without the sin nature- let him cast the first stone. Sinners commit sin because they have the sin nature (discussed at length in Romans 6 & 7). They sin because they are born in sin and shaped in iniquity as taught in the Psalms.

    The point of my quoting Jesus in John 8 was not to defend Lloyd but to challenge his detractors who are judging to remember that they also have SIN- they have the SIN NATURE TOO! THEY ARE NO BETTER THAN LLOYD. THEY ALSO SIN. EVEN IF IN OTHER WAYS, FOR ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD.

    Adrian you then quote Matt. 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.” And copy and paste some article from somewhere to indicate your omniscience. But I quoted John 7:24 which says JUDGE RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT AND NOT BY THE APPEARANCE.

    However, it is noteworthy that your source and I are in total agreement. In fact the exposition you quoted on Matt. 7:1 admonishes all those who have criticized Lloyd on this thread that they are not qualified to judge. {Of course I know that we all are prone to judge)

    You copied ……

    For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged [if we judge with an evil heart or dark intent, His judgment of us will reflect it; if we judge nobly and honestly, His judgment of us will reflect that, too], and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you [if we use extremes or exaggerations or other unfair means, our judgment will reflect it].

    Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye [point out his sins, “minor” in Jesus’ example here] and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye [our own sins, even and especially those we will not admit, magnified by our selective blindness]? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ [tell him of his “minor” sins] when all the time there is a plank in your own eye [that there are greater or the same sins in our own lives which we do nothing about or think we are above]? You hypocrite* [pointing out the sins of others while by pretense we think of ourselves as above sin], first take the plank out of your own eye [sincerely ask the Lord for forgiveness and learn and live the Truth and Light by His Word], and then you will see clearly [be in a righteous position] to remove the speck from your brother’s eye [to judge and to help him out of his bondage to sin].” At Galilee, the Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan, Jesus was talking to the multitudes gathered there after hearing of His message and of His healings to beseech them to not become like the pharisees and hypocrites who think they are above sin.

    I thank you for making my point so eruditely.

  48. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    David

    I agree with you and your household that we must all learn from events around us.

    Perhaps you sought to highlight the importance of marriage and the evils of infidelity.

    The importance of marriage and the evils of infidelity should certainly be our business, but that was not the lesson being taught or learned.

    The focus seemed to go off that lesson to the “shaming” or disgrace or fall of Clive Lloyd. The failure of every marriage is a tragedy- not only that of a perceived icon or “role model”

    The failure of every marriage is a tragedy, because God ordained that the basic unit of a nation is the family, i.e a man married to a woman with their offspring. It is to be Adam & Eve- NOT ADAM & STEVE!

    Our attitude to the breakdown of the Lloyd marriage is to pray for God’s intervention in lives. To pray that God might change Clive’s direction so that he might not fail again. That he might help his children and ex wife to depend on HIM not their fallen or failing father, because GOD DOES NOT FAIL.

    When I watch evil on the news, I thank God that he saved my soul, and has delivered me from such, and thank him that one day soon he will come to deliver me from the very presence of sin. I beg him daily to forgive me for my sins, and beg him to keep my sons from sin. I believe that this ought to be the attitude.

    I remain unmoved- Let him that is without sin (sin nature in the Greek) let him cast the first stone.

  49. Bimbro Avatar
    Bimbro

    Georgie Porgie, have you considered writing a book on this subject?

  50. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    On which subject Bimbro? And who would buy it?

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