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carl mooreWe have been bombarded with emails about an article which appeared in the Nation newspaper of 20 April 2008 under the by line Carl Moore – The More Things Change . Unlike Carl Moore we respect his right to foist his opinion on others. The right to free speech is something which our democracy has been built. The fact that some people have chosen the Internet to disseminate views which have been stifled in the traditional media appear to be lost on Carl Moore. This is a journalist who has used the traditional media to fight a perennial one man battle against noise pollution with a negliable result to date – spoken with the proverbial tongue in cheek like only Bush tea can. As an aside, Carl Moore maybe surprise to learn the identity of some of our commenters which include politicians, priests, civil servants current and retired, and believe or not, journalists!

Let us clear-up a misunderstanding which Mr. Moore seems to be labouring under. His willingness to criticize the blogs, we assume he means Barbados Free Press (BFP) and Barbados Underground (BU) when he really means some commenters suggests that he has some misunderstandings about what is a blog. A blog is Barbados Underground which is owned by blogger David and the BU household, the main objective of the blog is to promote the opinions of the blogger. The blog offers the opportunity for commenters to interact with the blogger by sharing opinions which hopefully benefit all the participants. More importantly blogs have the functionality which allow other blogs from all over the world including Barbados to ping(link) stories. The interaction leads to a blogosphere which is enhanced by the knowledge which is shared.

Like anything which involves human beings there is good and bad. Carl More seems to have a beef with the quality of journalism and the pseudonyms which BFP and BU and commenters have had to resort to in order to achieve the objective of sharing important information. Unlike Mr.Moore who seems to be a retired person they are others who because they fear victimization have used the Internet and blogs to share information. We are the first to admit that some have misused the blogs and where possible we have tried to filter those commenters while recognizing the individuals right to freedom of expression. During the last general election when the traditional media was restricted by a government that was known to be very hostile towards the media, subsequent events demonstrated that the media cowered in the face of the intimidation. The blogs were used to break stories which the traditional media refused. We have discussed issues regarding the cost of living, the crying need to identify alternative sources of energy, issues associated with a growing ethic and illegal population, increasing barriers to intra-regional travel, the role of the Church, a sensible land use policy, regionalism and the list goes on and on.

Let us debunk the inexactitude perpetrated by Carl Moore about the Bajan blogosphere. The Barbados Underground have never promoted ourselves as journalists. We have associated with the idea that the free-wheeling nature of the Internet allows the blogs to complement traditional media by protecting freedom of information. In the face of admissions by David Ellis and other journalists that they have been challenged at times to do their jobs, developing other avenues to protect the people’s right to freedom of speech, which is an important tenet in any democracy become paramount. The willingness of Carl Moore to remain committed to his single line notebook and pencil in an age of the computer and the Internet we accept as part of the challenge as Barbados and the world transition from old to new. There is a role for Carl Moore to play to ensure that key ingredients of the old media culture is transferred to the new. Whether he agrees or not it will call for an acceptance of blogs. We agree that some of our credibility is compromised because of our current anonymous configuration, but Mr. Moore should regard this as part of the process which will lead to an inevitable result of improving the unfettered distribution of ideas and information.

Barbados is a small community and the wholesale adoption of how blogs have been accepted in other parts of the world must be seen against this background.

Let us provide an example:

Both the Nation and Advocate newspapers have not incorporated blogs into their online format. If blogs were allowed, the journalists would be able to interact with the readers and get immediate feedback. A scan of the Trinidad and Jamaica newspapers this morning confirmed that this practice is in place. The same can be said about the online radio stations in Barbados which have struggled to maintain blogs or other fora to interact with their readership. Carl Moore who appears to have no respect for citizen journalists or what some refer to as the social media should explain why traditional media has been unable to integrate new distribution channels i.e. blogs.

We have deliberately not mentioned the phenomenon of Face book, My Space and other social networks which politicians in the USA have been using with mind blowing results. The point we are making Mr. Moore, you need to remove yourself from the archaic practices of the past. While your stubbornness in your current approach may still allow you to have your message resonate with the dinosaur era (no disrespect intended), there is a new generation who cares not for your nostalgic beliefs. It might explain the rapid growth of visitors of the BFP and BU (we continue to be surprise at the number of our unique and repeat visitors).

Mr. Moore we hope that you can come to the blogoshere and engage us on this important issue. If you retain your thin-skinned approach then we advise that you stay in the comfortable environs of Fontebelle. In deference to your cause we have placed a button on our sidebar to highlight the scourge of noise abuse.

By the way we love bananas!


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139 responses to “Carl Moore, Retired Journalist, Broadcaster & Former Chairman Of The Broadcasting Authority Calls Barbados Free Press & Barbados Underground 'Cowards'”


  1. Who running dis board DAVID? You or Carl Moore?

    ef carl moore want proper spelllin leh e start e own blog.


  2. Here is the chorus from Swingin’ on a star, an old Frank Sinatra song. Seem to remember Doris Day also sung it.

    Kind of stuck with me from the 60’s and pictures at the Roodals Drive In.

    Mum used to sing this to us as children when we were being … well, am er …. monkeys.

    “Now all the monkeys aren’t in a zoo (in a zoo)
    Why, every day I meet quite a few (quite a few)
    And so you see, it’s all up to you (up to you)
    You could be better than you are
    You could be swingin’ on a star
    You could be swingin’ on a star”

    Sometimes I still feel like a real monkey, and if Carl is handing out bananas, ….. I’ll take one.


  3. we are in deep sh…


  4. All of us, the gaggle (or is it troop) of bloggers, should insist that Carl should cough up on his commitment and produce the ripe banana he claims he always has in his hand.

    Carl should be on notice that every person he sees approaching him could be a member of the gaggle (or is it troop) and is going to ask for a ripe banana.

    That way he actually has to walk with a bunch (or is it a hand) of ripe bananas for the rest of his life or be exposed as being the biggest windbag on the island.

  5. CaribbeanLionesse Avatar
    CaribbeanLionesse

    Hmm…I don’t think it’s quite fair to just sum it up as ‘he’s archaic, he doesn’t get it’. Nor do I think that he needs you to invite him to come to the blogosphere, since from his article, he’s already been up in hey. :p

    Did you notice the part of the article where he said “Web logs or blogs, in other places serve useful purposes for discussion and elucidation. People generally deal with principles and issues, not one another.”

    He also indicated that he does know of what he speaks when he pointed out that he went on some of the blogs last year “suggesting some decorum, some decency.”

    So I do not think it is the technology he takes issue with, it is the tone, the disregard for facts and the hiding.


  6. CaribbeanLionesse wrote “I do not think it is the technology he takes exception to, it is the tone, the disregard for facts and the hiding.”

    May I please bring forward, as a counter argument, the long-running columns in The Nation “Pudding & Souse” and “Flying Fish & Cou Cou”.

    Who writes these columns? Is the tone appropriate for a professional forth estate? Where are the facts?

    If Mr. Moore’s argument is simply the tone, the facts (which are actually often presented) and the “hiding” on the Blogs, then he should take equal exception to these two columns.

    I completely agree with Mr. Moore that anonymous posting can result in a very low signal to noise ratio. However, it cannot be denied that there is still signal. It simply means that the “receivers” (read: readers) must filter out the noise.

    Further, it cannot be refuted that what appears in “the press” here is filtered not based on the public need and right to know, but on the economic constraints facing any traditional printed or broadcasting media (read: advertising revenue).

    This is where the “new technology” comes in. *Anyone* can publish content on the Internet for free; or very, very little cost. Heck, they can even be paid for it. The start-up costs are *far* lower, and no trees die in the process. (As an aside, how much newsprint does Barbados indigenously produce? How much do we recycle? Foreign Currency Exchange, anyone?)

    At the end of the day, the Barbados Blogs are successful simply and only because they are filling a demand. Basic economic theory.

    The traditional forth estate need to realize this, and either adapt, or die.


  7. One person–CaribbeanLionesse–out of 56 so far has bothered to read and understand what I wrote last Sunday. What does this tell us about our ability to comprehend?

    For a moment, it looked like John possessed a little humour and just as I was about the send him a ripe banana he spoilt it by calling me a windbag. No banana for you now, John!

    But seriously, folks, life is short. Too short. Only the other day I was 28! Loosen up a bit, nuh!

    You’ve called me every thing except a lesbian; and it may yet happen before the week is over. A kindly researcher has even traced my lineage all the way back to Ossie Moore. I could’ve confirmed that for him.

    Brace yourselves for some more lashes—the thin-skinned, humourless ones among you, I mean.

    I’m so sorry I write only every other week; I would’ve lashed you with a hand of green bananas as soon as next Sunday. By May 3 those bananas will be ripe and there will be enough for all who consider themselves monkeys.

    Thinking people like CaribbeanLionesse and Chris Halsall need not apply. Adrian Hinds will receive as many as he can eat, since he has done the most talking.

    And Chris, I’ve criticised The Nation about their wasteful use of newsprint every Saturday with Puddin ‘n’ Souse and Cou-cou and Flyin’ fish in a letter as far back as April 25, 1993—exactly 15 years ago this Friday.

    I abhor ALL forms of gossip–in The Nation, on the blogs, anywhere. It’s counter-productive, infantile and silly.

    The letter to which I refer appears in my new book due out in July. It’s titled “The Moore the Merrier: 50 Years of Letters to the Editor”.

    I have just put out the CD version for only $20 a copy. Buy one from muh, nuh!

    Take it easy. Keep the blood pressure under control, folks.


  8. Monkeys can’t read!


  9. Carl, statistics regarding the 56 people who criticised you are unimportant. Maybe the silent voices of the over 250,000 citizens will be on your side. I am on your side regarding the attacks, insults, innuendos, the vicious lies that we see on the blogs. I am annoyed when commenters disrespect the same officials we placed in office. I am annoyed when vile words are used accompanied by personal threats against the person. To tell you the truth, I do enjoy the blogs because you will always find articles with keen debaters.

    Anyway, I am on your side my long time friend.


  10. Mr. Moore.

    In your latest post to the online forum “Barbados Underground” (isn’t free speech wonderful?) you have singled myself and CaribbeanLionesse out as “thinking people”.

    Thank you for your kind words. However, while I cannot speak for CaribbeanLionesse, where I come from this is called “blowing sunshine up your ass”. And I hope you’ll forgive me for this, but I don’t swing that way…

    You have claimed that except for CaribbeanLionesse, none of us have “bothered to read and understand what [you] wrote last Sunday”.

    Just in case anyone has not read and fully understood your language, let me please provide a link to the (online) version of same:

    http://bararchive.bits.baseview.com/archive_detail.php?archiveFile=./pubfiles/bar/archive/2008/April/20/Editorial/56603.xml&start=0&numPer=20&keyword=Carl+Moore&sectionSearch=&begindate=1%2F1%2F1994&enddate=12%2F31%2F2008&authorSearch=&IncludeStories=1&pubsection=&page=&IncludePages=1&IncludeImages=1&mode=allwords&archive_pubname=Daily+Nation%09%09%09

    In the spirit of good conduct, let us refrain from radiating negative comments on the pathetic formatting in the linked page… However, may I please suggest that perhaps you might ask your editors to understand where a paragraph ends (hint: it is generally only after a period, and not in the middle of a sentence…).

    Moving forward, in the language of said article (of which I hold a copy of the printed version) you claim “This free-for-all has given rise to aberrations such as “citizen journalist”. All you need is a cellphone with a camera built in”.

    From several dictionaries, the definition of “aberration” is roughly: “A deviation from the proper or expected course.”

    So, coming full circle, one might conclude that the traditional forth estate (and, possibly, others) is/are having issue with the unexpected.

    Please forgive me for this, but, frankly, deal with it….

    Kindest regards to all.


  11. CaribbeanLionesse // April 22, 2008 at 11:53 am

    Hmm…I don’t think it’s quite fair to just sum it up as ‘he’s archaic, he doesn’t get it’. Nor do I think that he needs you to invite him to come to the blogosphere, since from his article, he’s already been up in hey. :p

    Did you notice the part of the article where he said “Web logs or blogs, in other places serve useful purposes for discussion and elucidation. People generally deal with principles and issues, not one another.”

    He also indicated that he does know of what he speaks when he pointed out that he went on some of the blogs last year “suggesting some decorum, some decency.”

    So I do not think it is the technology he takes issue with, it is the tone, the disregard for facts and the hiding.
    =================================

    I will find the the posts that he speaks of, and let you see what his approach was then. He was as condescending and demeaning then as he is now, and he got his a2s kicked, as also occurred this time around.
    …But what does the following really mean? and how truthful is it? How do you explain what are the two most popular columns in the Nationnews while holding fast to this statement that“Web logs or blogs, in other places serve useful purposes for discussion and elucidation. People GENERALLY deal with principles and issues, not one another.”

    People generally deal with principles and issues, not one another,…..what a load uh mean a lie,…must be Carl Moore that said it.


  12. Naughty Mr. Halsall:

    I have no difficulty with where you’re blowing that sunshine. If you must use one of my bananas, please ensure that it’s a green one.

    Can we talk now about how all of a sudden all across the world food is becoming scarce? That people in Haiti are eating mud cakes? What do you expect if you take food and turn it into petrol?

    How are we in Barbados going to deal with these problems? Oil hit US$117 per barrel yesterday while many care-free Barbadians hold motor rallies every other weekend, driving gas-guzzlers through mud and kicking lots of dust in the quiet countryside, preventing other Barbadians from getting to church on Sunday mornings?

    Uh-oh, here I go again, stirring up another hornet’s nest!

    What do you call the people who engage in that foolishness? Please avoid using THAT “m” word! If you must, just call them motorists.


  13. Carl Moore says:
    Thinking people like CaribbeanLionesse and Chris Halsall need not apply. Adrian Hinds will receive as many as he can eat, since he has done the most talking.
    =================================

    I am not in the least fazed by your attempt to divide and conquer. I am not party to or in any grouping with your two A pupils that i would feel aggrieved for being left out, or afraid for being single out for what you may think is punishment. Bring it on.

    You don’t abhor gossip, you abhor the truth, and will do anything to keep the truth a secret. One of those columns deals with the truth about politics in Barbados, and because libel threats are a real and present danger to the media houses in Barbados they resort to the kind of hidden message reporting in that column. Take this one for instance http://www.barbadosforum.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=2155&view=findpost&p=69173

    Is this gossip? did these events not occur? why did the news media feel that they could not report on it in a clear and concise manner? and why can the Blogs do so? People like you will hardly ever get respect from me.

    …..as to this late hour call of yours to lighten up, it is fun for me to cuss your angry, lying, failure of an a2s.
    Isn’t it enough that one had to listen to your pompous commentry in the past? You have the gall to ask persons to now pay you, too once again tell us that we are beneath you? Sorry i will make sure to give Autie Olga 20.00 instead.


  14. Mr. Moore.

    Please speak to and debate the issues which *you* have brought forward, and which we are discussing *here* and *now*.

    If you cannot, than please have the decency of concede defeat.

    Changing the topic is effectively the same.

    Kindest regards.


  15. A correction to my last post, in geek speak: s/of/to/

    Although I’m sure Mr. Moore would be able to bring the correction of this grammatical mistake forward in more mainstream terms…


  16. Carl Moore says:
    Can we talk now about how all of a sudden all across the world food is becoming scarce? That people in Haiti are eating mud cakes? What do you expect if you take food and turn it into petrol?

    =================================
    What do you mean by “take food and turn it into petrol? is this your regurgitation of the now popular but uninformed global sentiment that corn grown for ethanol production has contributed to the rising cost of food?

    Carl Moore says:
    How are we in Barbados going to deal with these problems? Oil hit US$117 per barrel yesterday while many care-free Barbadians hold motor rallies every other weekend, driving gas-guzzlers through mud and kicking lots of dust in the quiet countryside, preventing other Barbadians from getting to church on Sunday mornings?
    =================================

    What does one have to do with the other? Don’t the rally lovers have to pay the same price increase as everyone else? If your comments about Car racing vs. potential inconveniences of noise and access to the public is now open for us monkeys to genuinely discuss with you, it would hardly be a hornets nest that you would have open. If you were not so busy cussing the blogs you might have been aware of the many discussions us monkeys have had on the subject

    Here is one : http://www.barbadosforum.com/index.php?showtopic=905&hl=rallying


  17. Mr. Moore.

    Please speak to and debate the issues which *you* have brought forward, and which we are discussing *here* and *now*.

    If you cannot, than please have the decency of concede defeat.

    Changing the topic is effectively the same.

    Kindest regards.
    =================================

    So noted but let him think he has a new lease on life. Lets see if he has any depth of knowledge on the two subjects he choose to deflect with.


  18. Adrian Hinds wrote “Lets see if he has any depth of knowledge on the two subjects he choose to deflect with”.

    If I May, and with all due respect, no.

    The issue “on to the docket” is what he’s brought forward. This is the only issue which should be heard (and debated) by this court of public opinion.

    If he wishes to bring other (unrelated) issues forward, he can do so at another time…

    It is important that *this* case be heard, debated, and *judged* — here and now.

    Kindest regards.


  19. About your book Mr. Moore

    I am now reading:
    Negro With a Hat
    The rise and Fall of Marcus Garvey and His dream of Mother Africa
    By: Colin Grant

    A well researched good read, people always think of Bob Marley when the words “mental slavery” are used, but it was Marcus Garvey who said:

    ” We are going to emancipate ourselves from mental slavery because whilst others might free the body, none but ourselves can free the mind.”
    At Menelik Hall, Nova Scotia, 1937

    In July with bananas as an inducement – perhaps only one – I might consider your “tome”.


  20. I am not sure if this is the same Carl Moore who suggested we look at reclaiming land in Barbados but here is an example of one of the past positions he has taken.

    It is highly unlikely that in a newspaper setting that any one would take the time to respond to this suggestion yet on the blogs he was able to get cold hard facts fast and be directed to where he could get an overall view of the island of Barbados.

    I was Anonymous.

    Must have been on a diferent computer which didn’t have on John . Now my words would be gone …. as they would have been anonymous, inkeeping with Carls’s position!!

    I do not know if Carl still feels that we should be reclaiming land as I no longer see him pushing this position.

    Here I was thinking that I was able to in some small way to show him an alternative view and perhaps he accepted it, hence his silence.

    I did not realise he was so offended by the lack of factual debate and abundance of gossip on the blogs and had walked off vex.

    To return pushing an extreme position which does not appear to match reality does him no justice.

    Here is the article from BFP.

    July 26, 2006…1:25 pm
    Reclaiming Land in Barbados… Why Not?
    Jump to Comments
    Carl Moore writes some ideas in the Nation News…

    * Reclaim land and make Barbados’ land mass bigger. The Japanese do it all the time. We did it almost 50 years ago when we built the deep-water harbour and filled in 90 acres right out to Pelican Island.

    Why not create more Barbados land from the sea? If our land is so valuable, sure.

    Read the entire article at The Nation Post (link here)

    3 Comments
    Filed under Barbados, Environment, Island Life, Offshore Investments, Politics & Corruption

    3 Comments
    Jane
    July 26, 2006 at 5:15 pm
    We are already doing this to protect the coastline in some areas. This is well worth looking into.

    Anonymous
    July 27, 2006 at 7:49 am
    Carl

    Go look at Google Earth at the amount of land reclaimed for the deep water harbour back in 1960 or therabouts.

    It is about 90 acres I am told.

    The whole of Barbados is 106470 acres so this reclaimed land is pretty insignificant if not paltry when compared with the whole.

    However, its importance is very high.

    While on Google Earth, look at the quarries which dot the island and from which the material to reclaim land will probably come.

    The amount of land to be created from the sea is of an insignificant amount and is only justified if its use can support its cost of production. The deep water harbour was built because it made economic sense to build it.

    When Govt takes up 500 acres up at Apes Hill and rezones it golf and housing for the rich and famous, it is highly unlikely that we could then reclaim an equivalent amount of land from the sea that would replace what government has given up in our name.

    Its cost per square foot would rise into the ether.

    We need to accept what we have and find a balance with our natural environment. Colin Hudson often talked and demonstrated the footprint we need to sustain our lifestyle. It was several times the size of Barbados.

    I think the message he tried to communicate was that we are out of balance with our natural environment.

    Our ancestors found a balance that worked for them, we need to find one that works for us.

    Why not encourage Bajan settlers to go to Guyana and take up the vast land resources of the interior.

    CSME should be able to accommodate this.

    Lex
    December 18, 2007 at 6:46 pm
    The interior in Guyana is lived in by Amerindians, it’s not uninhabited land waiting for you to exploit it.


  21. Yardbroom // April 22, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Monkeys can’t read!

    Thanks for that. On a lighter note. A true story.

    I had an old friend who suggested placing newspapers in a large circle around the mango tree, with rocks to stop them blowing away, to stop the monkeys from eating all the mangoes. When I asked him why he thought this would deter the monkeys he told me that “monkeys can’t read”. It did work for a while.


  22. Nation newspapers by the way.


  23. “I abhor ALL forms of gossip–in The Nation, on the blogs, anywhere. It’s counter-productive, infantile and silly.”

    The Call in programmes are full of gossip and for a short time, a couple of hours a day people can “anonymously” call them and make a contribution.

    Carl, you appeared on one, was it Sunday before last, where journalism was discussed.

    It was carried almost blow by blow on the blogs.

    No doubt you were peeved by the comments about the profession you love.

    At the same time, look at the comments which are there for the record on the blogs and if you have a tape of Brasstacks, listen to it again.

    Try reading in the newspapers about what happened when three senior journalists discussed their profession and then compare the content of the three sources, Newspapers, Tape and Blogs as a source of facts.

    Seriously Carl, go to the record of the three sources of Brasstacks, Blogs, Audio Tape and the Printed Version of the Newspaper and tell us which one gives you the most factual content and which one was the most accessible.

    This was an important program and deserves to be available to young aspiring journalists.

    Remember that like me, there are not many who read the papers or listen to the radio.

    I have no doubt when we read you again in what appears to be your favoured forum that you will complain that you have been called all manner of names on the blogs, …. apart from a lesbian …. and use it to support your position that personal attacks on blogs can be vile and scandalous.

    I agree, but that’s part of life. “Sticks and stones ….”

    Please note that I did not call you a windbag but suggested you would qualify to be considered as one if you don’t deliver on your commitment of one ripe banana to each mamber of the gaggle.

    Don’t worry, other people make commitments and don’t deliver.

    I can think of one, or is it several, such commitments which fall due in a couple of days and I know the goodly gentleman will not deliver.

    You may be in exalted company soon.

  24. Thewhiterabbit Avatar

    In a perfect world Mr. Moore would be entirely correct. Alas, Bim ain’t perfect, and much experience has shown how quickly, how easily, and how completely a person who exposes himself or herself to public scrutiny can be ruined by people in power, and that with complete impunity. There is no anonymity in this small society. The blogosphere is a free-market open economy in which anybody can offer any idea or perspective for sale. In such bazaar-like conditions the adage “caveat emptor” (buyer beware) applies. This writer once wrote something similar to Mr. Moore’s comments, but has subsequently seen the light and recanted the earlier stance. Notwithstanding, it will always be a mark of an educated commentator to proof what has been written in order to try to reduce as far as possible mistakes in grammar, punctuation, spelling, etc. A blog full of errors simply reduces the credibility of the offering. Unless the writer is attempting to communicate using the local edition of the language, errors indicate either a lack of education, or much more likely haste in writing and a lazy refusal to proof the blog. No spell checker used herein, but this writer likes to re-read what was written to make sure it says what was intended, at the very least.


  25. My apologies if I am now beating a dead horse…

    But a dimension of this debate which has not been touched on is the Internet accessibility of content of important content here in Barbados. Specifically, the searchability of same.

    Your author is a student of the empirical. Specifically, the reproducibility of results. Please let me present you with a series of Google queries that as of 2008.04.22 produced zero (0) results:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.barbadosadvocate.com+halsall
    http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.barbadosadvocate.com+ftc
    http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.barbadosadvocate.com+bango

    And yet, if one runs the following query (for “Cricket”), one receives many results (41, to be exact, as of 2008.04.22):

    http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.barbadosadvocate.com+cricket

    This might be considered strange, considering that your author was regularly interviewed on telecoms issues this last year by the newspaper being queried, and (very briefly) had a column in same. A link to the search feature of the web-site itself would be provided, if one existed….

    In today’s world, News is not relevant if it cannot be referred to online, months (and years) after publication, and from anywhere in the world.

    The Blogs satisfy this benchmark. Do traditional newspapers?


  26. A name does not remove anonymity.

    It is the lack of a statement of position through words and deeds that makes a person anonymous.

    Any of the bloggers on this or any site are identifiable by the positions they take. they are not anonymous.

    They courageously return and make their points day in and day out because it is who they are.

    They use their handles because they chose them and are comfortable with them.

    The Nazi regime attempted to reduce human beings to the level of the anonymity of a number in a concentration camp.

    They failed.

    Even those who died in silence spoke with a voice as clear and unmistakeable as those who fought and clung to life to the last.

    Both made statements but neither are anonymous because we do not know their names.

    They are remembered and will be remembered forever.

    Carl Moore is no more anonymous than I am, or Hants, or Adrian Hinds or Adrian Loveridge or whoever’s handle you choose to call.

    I believe each of us consistently take positions and blows for these positions and try our best to clearly state our positions as best we can.

    Spelling, grammar …. big deal.

    We are all identifiable through our words, our opinions and our positions.

    The forum we have chosen to come to is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. We make mistakes, we apologise, we rib one another, we value one another’s opinions.

    We are part of something living, I think we enjoy it.

    I always look to see who said what and love reading criticism or validation of any position I take.

    I have no problem in changing a position I take and admitting I am wrong once the error of my ways is shown to me.

    That is life.

    I love it.


  27. John sometimes I think you are me and i am you. 😀 which reminds me of a poem I learnt in primary school and that has stuck with me.


  28. Thewhiterabbit // April 22, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    In a perfect world Mr. Moore would be entirely correct. Alas, Bim ain’t perfect, and much experience has shown how quickly, how easily, and how completely a person who exposes himself or herself to public scrutiny can be ruined by people in power, and that with complete impunity. There is no anonymity in this small society. The blogosphere is a free-market open economy in which anybody can offer any idea or perspective for sale. In such bazaar-like conditions the adage “caveat emptor” (buyer beware) applies. This writer once wrote something similar to Mr. Moore’s comments, but has subsequently seen the light and recanted the earlier stance. Notwithstanding, it will always be a mark of an educated commentator to proof what has been written in order to try to reduce as far as possible mistakes in grammar, punctuation, spelling, etc. A blog full of errors simply reduces the credibility of the offering. Unless the writer is attempting to communicate using the local edition of the language, errors indicate either a lack of education, or much more likely haste in writing and a lazy refusal to proof the blog. No spell checker used herein, but this writer likes to re-read what was written to make sure it says what was intended, at the very least.
    =================================

    I certainly do envy your ability to spell well and to be grammatically correct at all times. I must admit that beyond these abilities your contributions doesn’t inform me of much. It’s me, I am just an uneducated guy trying to learn meaningful and practical things.


  29. We have read all the comments which evoked laughter but equally, food for thought. What is clear is the view from the two camps. The Carl Moore’s view which is critical of the blogs and their role, and those who feel the blogs are filling a void which represents dissatisfaction with traditional media.

    What we have to go on if we use trends in the USA and other markets suggests that the momentum is on the side of the blogs. What it also suggests, players like Moore who elect to fight us will in all likelihood lose. But of course this is his right if he wants history to record him on the wrong side of this issue.

    Whereas it took Mr. Moore all week to fashion his 650 word masterpiece which appeared in the Sunday Sun just gone. It took the BU household about 1 hour to write this 1000+ blog in rebuttal. This is why we love the spontaneity which it offers. The use of the word difference instead of deference was a slip and one which we observe in mainstream press on a daily basis. In fact they have established a system of rotating public editors to address the problem.

    We don’t disagree with commenters who expect a reasonable standard of grammar and presentation by the blogger mainly, as oppose to commenters. We however will not be sidetracked by what is a red herring argument. Until such time as our visits/hits start to go South and feedback from the BU family signal that we have overstayed our welcome in the blogosphere, we will soldier on with the grace of God behind us.


  30. There is a false presumption that the blogs and the print media perform the same function, they do not. The relationship between them is that they disseminate news, opinions and ideas but that is about it.

    The immediacy of presentation and spontaneity of the blogs, cannot be matched by the print media but they both have important roles to play. So there is no doubt, I have never subscribed to personal attacks or malicious asides on any medium, so we can take that as understood.

    On a different tack, there are many reasons why commenters prefer to be anonymous – or use pseudonyms – and Barbadians are fully aware of how their society operates, perhaps there is a wish this was not the case…but so it is.

    I have always felt that the message or idea is more important than the proper use of grammar or punctuation on the blogs – I could be wrong – but my reasoning is that everyone should be encouraged to express a view. That they have not had a university education should be of no account, and have repeatedly advocated that position.

    I recently heard an exchange on a popular call in radio programme, an ordinary person – in terms of ability to articulate – being brow beaten and bullied into submission, because he was not able to express his deeply felt position with the skill of the chairman. In that instance the argument was not won on the strength of the position or ideas that underpinned it, but in this case the ability to bully into submission.

    In a well conducted programme of that kind, the chairman teases out opinions and assist the expression of ideas, even those he is not in agreement with, providing they are not slanderous or malicious, to give balance and a reflection of the public mood.

    I hope the blogs never degenerate into a kind of elite cabal.

    The problem we have had in Barbados is that “some” people believe they have a “divine” right to act for, but over the heads of the ordinary citizens, it is a flaw which prevents the average person from being heard and properly represented in news transmission, a fate I hope the blogs will not succumb to.


  31. Yardbroom you have painted the picture for all who want to see. Much of the criticism about the role of Bajan Blogosphere has been misunderstood because of a misunderstanding of the roles we are playing and should be allowed to play by traditional media.

    Watching CNN and other US networks we see many examples of how blogs have been integrated into mainstream. What Mr. Moore and others don’t appreciate is the journey to where they have gotten.

    We fully endorse this comment made at the breakfast table and was cognizant of the ramification of not using the Spellchecker.


  32. A bajan language maven in action. note his facial expression when he says “duh can’t spell”, does this represent a person who is genuinely concern about bad grammar and spelling? Or someone who’s intent is to be simply condescending? Why would he go on national television to attempt embarrassment of his fellow Lawyers? Does such action help his cause? again is his cause genuine?

    Watch and decide

    Thank you Yardbroom, I have been saying the same for as long as there were bajans meeting on the internet.


  33. The wonderful thing about belittling the students or lawyers of today is that you get an instant ego boost.

    You come from the past when students/lawyers were good, ergo you were/are good.

    Many people have problems with spelling and grammar and punctuation and syntax but in conversation none of these win an argument on their own or make fundamental changes in society.

    It is the ability to put across a point and to get people to believe in your point through your words and actions that is more important.

    As a boy and growing up I interacted with old agricultural labourers. Many of them had no formal education and perhaps could not even read or write (that never came up or mattered) but they made lasting impressions on me because of the wisdom and calm they possessed.

    Having said that I can also think of a couple of people who in adition to possesing that calm and wisdom also could use the language expertly.

    All were/are exceptional people.

    I am more worried that students are less and less being exposed to older, cooler, wiser heads because those heads get fewer and fewer.

    I believe that this exposure lays the foundations for education to work and have maximum effect.

    Most surfaces need to be primed before paint is applied.


  34. carl moore

    i thought he would have noticed my comments and respond but he appears not have noticed me
    i could cry
    notice me nuh carl !
    notice muh nuh
    boo hoo hoo ; boo hoo hoo !


  35. Transcribing from The Nation, 2008.04.20. Page 6A (the “above fold” column sharing the same page as Mr. Moore’s…)

    Title: Facing up to bitter pill.

    Opening paragraph: “IT IS CLEAR the Government had no option but to prescribe and also administer a dose of bitter medicine in response to accelerating increases in the cost of oil on the international market.

    Closing two paragraphs: “While it is understandable that our democracy encourages much debate about changes, pleasant or otherwise, we are now at the point of having a reality check.

    “It is time for tightening belts all around

    This language is unsigned. It does not appear to be available on the Internet.

    Mr. Moore: If you are still reading this thread, please speak to who wrote this language. The page is titled “Comment”, with the “Sunday Sun” masthead in the upper-right corner, listing your publisher, editors and managers.

    Please, speak to anonymity, and how it is unique to the Blogs. Please provide a link to the online version of this language.

    Kindest regards.

  36. Johnny-cum-lately Avatar
    Johnny-cum-lately

    As a blogger I am shivering in my boots; Carl’s threats of more attacks in his Sunday wasted space have me almost wetting my pants.
    My dear Carl, surf blogs anywhere – NY Daily News; Newsday: NY Times; Daily Mail in London – and you will read the same things you denounce on BFP and BU.
    As far as I know Sir, you dont hold the patent to journalism.
    I want to see the experts like you giving us more analytical features in our two daily flying-fish wrappers. I am tires reading about house fires, crime, and which Minister says what.
    Gladstone Holder tried, what about you?
    Lets get too it Mr Journalism……..or schhhhhhhhhh..SFCBDOS will get an official complaint from me


  37. I have known Carl Moore as a young adult while living in Barbados. The Carl Moore that was known to us was always a very progressive and calm individual. He and others survived the Tom Adams regime where verbalizing ones opinion costs them their jobs and even their wives.

    Is Carl Moore going senile in his later years. He knows the casualties of so call free speech around the world. Get with the program Carl.


  38. To our friend Carl Moore, we had a browse of the Nation and we can’t find your article anywhere. What happened?


  39. After all the long talk, I was also looking forward to reading Carl Moore’s promised piece. Can’t find it.


  40. Dear David and Zachary:

    The column is every other week. I said so in the first one on the 6th of April. Meantime, have a quiet week.

    Be patient; you can have another go at me on Sunday.

    To Maria: I didn’t find the Tom Adams era all that turbulent. Politicians have never scared me. I don’t see them doing it now. I clashed with a National Hero on national TV in ’72 and took good care of myself.

    Senile? Not so far.

    I’ve managed to have the same great lady for a wife for the past 36 years—pre and post Tom!

    Take care.


  41. Karia // April 25, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    I have known Carl Moore as a young adult while living in Barbados. The Carl Moore that was known to us was always a very progressive and calm individual. He and others survived the Tom Adams regime where verbalizing ones opinion costs them their jobs and even their wives.

    Is Carl Moore going senile in his later years. He knows the casualties of so call free speech around the world. Get with the program Carl.
    =================================

    Karia most people remember the highlights of their past, pray tell what was the reason for remembering this Carl Moore????


  42. David // April 27, 2008 at 10:08 am

    To our friend Carl Moore, we had a browse of the Nation and we can’t find your article anywhere. What happened?
    =================================

    Wunnuh got wuk or want some. The last three articles written by this person that i could can recall were to my mind self advocacy, void of any real substance, at least any that i could share. One dealt with cussing people for going to Britton’s hill in the aftermath of the cave collapse, Another dealt with increasing Barbados land mass by reclaiming land from the sea, and to which John make light weight of the argument, – to this day i see no reason not believe that he was joking around, and finally this recent piece cussing the blogs. I understand that when reference is made of Barbadian Journalist the name Carl Moore does not readily come to mind, hence articles from him that are at the core, cries for personal recognition. Does it mean that much to you? Try a little less of cussing people.


  43. All the best to you Mr Moore. While I may not agree with some of your comments about the blogs, I do not see the need for the vitriol poured out on you. I admire and support your anti-noise pollution campaign along with your efforts to make Barbados a less coarse society.

    On the matter of grammer and spelling, I fully understand that on a blog it is the message being communicated that should be focussed on. However we should be concerned about the state of the use of English in Barbados. Yesterday, a child recited a poem about Rt. Excellent E.W. Barrow at the ceremony at Independence Square. I thought it was a good poem but it was titled “IT is my hero”! What disturbs me is that this child was probably under the supervision of a teacher!


  44. Anonymous // April 29, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    I do not see the need for the vitriol poured out on you.
    =================================

    Of course you would not see it. It is convenient not too, after all a monkey so called, cannot complain, and probably would not have need to so do, if they could, but we were called such and you know what, we can retort. To my mind there isn’t any differences between the two of you. You are both anonymous and not worth the trouble. 😀

    …But be honest, did the poem’s titled so recited, disturbed you? what did you do about it? anything? or is it most likely that you are now pretending some disturbance when in fact you are fain giddy with pleasure at been granted an opportunity to be so righteous in your criticism?


  45. Thanks, Anonymous. Let’s leave this poltergeist alone. There is no need for him to identify himself as a monkey more than once.

    He’s done so on this thread about 15 times in the past 10 days. What an addictive quidnunc!

    I’ve run out of bananas. A friend gave me some mangoes yesterday. If he can’t improve his silly graffiti, I hope, at least, I can get him to improve his diet.

    I’m coming at him and all those who have identified themselves as monkeys one more time … on Sunday.

    This time around, I hope they’ll make passing contact with what I WRITE and not who or what I am. That’s not the issue here.

    Take care now.


  46. The first sentence of the SPJ ethics code sounds the call quite well: “Members of the society of Professional Journalists believe that PUBLIC ENLIGHTENMENT IS THE FORERUNNER OF JUSTICE AND THE FOUNDATION OF DEMOCRACY.
    Taken on their face, the four major points of the Ethics Code are sound advice for journalists and a good yardstick for the public to use in sizing up reporting and conduct of journalists and media organizations.

    *Seek truth and report it.
    *Minimize harm.
    *Act Independently.
    *Be accountable.

    If is possible in this new culture of choice to find journalism that is relevant, serves the greater good and is executed with CLARITY and ethical provenance absent of PARTISANSHIP, or AGENDAS, other than the interest of the public. IT WILL COME IN ALL MANNER OF VOICES AND FORMATS.

    On behalf of journalists everywhere, we ask America to keep looking.

    Clint Brewer is the president of the Society of Professional Journalist. To learn more about SPJ and its code of ethics, visit http://WWW.SPJ.ORG.

    This obvisiouly does not apply to Carl Moore. 😀


  47. Carl Moore // April 30, 2008 at 8:09 am

    Thanks, Anonymous. Let’s leave this poltergeist alone. There is no need for him to identify himself as a monkey more than once.

    He’s done so on this thread about 15 times in the past 10 days. What an addictive quidnunc!

    I’ve run out of bananas. A friend gave me some mangoes yesterday. If he can’t improve his silly graffiti, I hope, at least, I can get him to improve his diet.

    I’m coming at him and all those who have identified themselves as monkeys one more time … on Sunday.

    This time around, I hope they’ll make passing contact with what I WRITE and not who or what I am. That’s not the issue here.

    Take care now.
    =================================

    It is sad to here a black man refer to another black person as a Monkey, but then again the person making the disparaging remark, is a known failure name Carl Moore. I would not be surprise, if at some point in his miserable existence, he engaged in the purchase of and application of Ambi skin bleaching cream in the silly attempt of fading away his blackness. 😀 but at last even at that he was doomed to failure.
    …..So pray tell, will I be a “Poltergeist” in your highly marketed Sunday article or will i be for once accepted as “Adrian Hinds” albeit a Monkey?. This will no doubt be the widest read posting of yours, and this would have come about like most useless things that miraculously attracts high interest from consumers,…. due exclusively to marketing. Uh mean why would someone read your words on their own?

    …..Would you like this quidnunc to shut up?….. sorry, not even if it were possible for you to ask nicely.


  48. How very sad!
    When a supposedly “learned” black man takes it upon himself, to use an epithet in reference to other black people in the main -monkeys- a word often used by other races to disparage black people – in Barbados of all places – there is nothing more that will shed “light” which can be said.


  49. Carl Moore doesn’t know the fibre and backbone that i have. I live and operate in a civil world and therefore have no need to fear anyone. Since he is using the mainstream media to lie about the blogs, I will petition the Nationnews to give me an opportunity to respond to him in that format. I don’t expect them (nationnews) to honour my request, but i will be put of from asking. Far from it for me to – as he would want to suggest, hide behind my words on the blogs. Whenever next i am in Barbados I will look him up so that he can see and give to this monkey the “licks”, bananas and mangoes that he so thinks he has been dishing out. In fact i will look him up in http://www.barbadosyp.com, call him, and give him a real opportunity to tell-me-like-he-thinks-it-is. 😀


  50. Carl Moore has not been a friend of freedom of expression, from Ordinary Barbadians. It is of interest that in 2006 he attacked the call in programs, only to find PERSONAL utility for them in 2008, where he use the opportunity to bemoan the blogs in the same fashioned he did the call in programs. Will the Blogs capitulate and welcome him as did Radio? should they?

    ================================
    “In August, Carl Moore, a retired journalist and broadcaster, and former chairman of the Barbados Broadcasting Authority, wrote a commentary published by Caribbean Net News bemoaning the explosion in the number of talk radio shows on Barbados radio. Moore wrote that “the daily diet of talk radio, while allowing the citizenry to talk back, has become a free-for-all, and has resulted in a laziness at radio stations where the function of ‘producer’ entails deciding who goes on the air and what’s to be edited out or ‘dumped’, thereby saving the station a possible lawsuit.” He suggested that while talk radio had firmly established itself as a worthwhile component of the democratic process, “we could do with 50% less talk, and more structured programming designed to educate, inform and entertain.”

    http://www.freemedia.at/cms/ipi/freedom_detail.html?country=/KW0001/KW0202/KW0035/

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