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carl mooreWe have been bombarded with emails about an article which appeared in the Nation newspaper of 20 April 2008 under the by line Carl Moore – The More Things Change . Unlike Carl Moore we respect his right to foist his opinion on others. The right to free speech is something which our democracy has been built. The fact that some people have chosen the Internet to disseminate views which have been stifled in the traditional media appear to be lost on Carl Moore. This is a journalist who has used the traditional media to fight a perennial one man battle against noise pollution with a negliable result to date – spoken with the proverbial tongue in cheek like only Bush tea can. As an aside, Carl Moore maybe surprise to learn the identity of some of our commenters which include politicians, priests, civil servants current and retired, and believe or not, journalists!

Let us clear-up a misunderstanding which Mr. Moore seems to be labouring under. His willingness to criticize the blogs, we assume he means Barbados Free Press (BFP) and Barbados Underground (BU) when he really means some commenters suggests that he has some misunderstandings about what is a blog. A blog is Barbados Underground which is owned by blogger David and the BU household, the main objective of the blog is to promote the opinions of the blogger. The blog offers the opportunity for commenters to interact with the blogger by sharing opinions which hopefully benefit all the participants. More importantly blogs have the functionality which allow other blogs from all over the world including Barbados to ping(link) stories. The interaction leads to a blogosphere which is enhanced by the knowledge which is shared.

Like anything which involves human beings there is good and bad. Carl More seems to have a beef with the quality of journalism and the pseudonyms which BFP and BU and commenters have had to resort to in order to achieve the objective of sharing important information. Unlike Mr.Moore who seems to be a retired person they are others who because they fear victimization have used the Internet and blogs to share information. We are the first to admit that some have misused the blogs and where possible we have tried to filter those commenters while recognizing the individuals right to freedom of expression. During the last general election when the traditional media was restricted by a government that was known to be very hostile towards the media, subsequent events demonstrated that the media cowered in the face of the intimidation. The blogs were used to break stories which the traditional media refused. We have discussed issues regarding the cost of living, the crying need to identify alternative sources of energy, issues associated with a growing ethic and illegal population, increasing barriers to intra-regional travel, the role of the Church, a sensible land use policy, regionalism and the list goes on and on.

Let us debunk the inexactitude perpetrated by Carl Moore about the Bajan blogosphere. The Barbados Underground have never promoted ourselves as journalists. We have associated with the idea that the free-wheeling nature of the Internet allows the blogs to complement traditional media by protecting freedom of information. In the face of admissions by David Ellis and other journalists that they have been challenged at times to do their jobs, developing other avenues to protect the people’s right to freedom of speech, which is an important tenet in any democracy become paramount. The willingness of Carl Moore to remain committed to his single line notebook and pencil in an age of the computer and the Internet we accept as part of the challenge as Barbados and the world transition from old to new. There is a role for Carl Moore to play to ensure that key ingredients of the old media culture is transferred to the new. Whether he agrees or not it will call for an acceptance of blogs. We agree that some of our credibility is compromised because of our current anonymous configuration, but Mr. Moore should regard this as part of the process which will lead to an inevitable result of improving the unfettered distribution of ideas and information.

Barbados is a small community and the wholesale adoption of how blogs have been accepted in other parts of the world must be seen against this background.

Let us provide an example:

Both the Nation and Advocate newspapers have not incorporated blogs into their online format. If blogs were allowed, the journalists would be able to interact with the readers and get immediate feedback. A scan of the Trinidad and Jamaica newspapers this morning confirmed that this practice is in place. The same can be said about the online radio stations in Barbados which have struggled to maintain blogs or other fora to interact with their readership. Carl Moore who appears to have no respect for citizen journalists or what some refer to as the social media should explain why traditional media has been unable to integrate new distribution channels i.e. blogs.

We have deliberately not mentioned the phenomenon of Face book, My Space and other social networks which politicians in the USA have been using with mind blowing results. The point we are making Mr. Moore, you need to remove yourself from the archaic practices of the past. While your stubbornness in your current approach may still allow you to have your message resonate with the dinosaur era (no disrespect intended), there is a new generation who cares not for your nostalgic beliefs. It might explain the rapid growth of visitors of the BFP and BU (we continue to be surprise at the number of our unique and repeat visitors).

Mr. Moore we hope that you can come to the blogoshere and engage us on this important issue. If you retain your thin-skinned approach then we advise that you stay in the comfortable environs of Fontebelle. In deference to your cause we have placed a button on our sidebar to highlight the scourge of noise abuse.

By the way we love bananas!


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139 responses to “Carl Moore, Retired Journalist, Broadcaster & Former Chairman Of The Broadcasting Authority Calls Barbados Free Press & Barbados Underground 'Cowards'”


  1. This is the same Carl Moore who has been calling for shortwave radio? Well BBC just stop broadcasting shortwave which addresses relevance of course.


  2. Yes, I am one of the cowards. I run a blog. I exercise precautions to safeguard my life here in Miami, but my identity is no secret and even here I am vulnerable.

    I am about to publish some provocative articles, and I fear that I may never be able to visit to my native land.

    BU and other blogs, Do not reveal your identities. We are not involved in a game. Serious things have happened.

    One other thing. I may be scared, but I am prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice. In the event that I am removed from the picture, I have made arrangements for the shares of Keltruth Corp. to be transferred, and for the company to continue its blog.


  3. Yes, he is right.

    You are cowards.


  4. I’ve already come to the blogosphere and you bored me with your personal attacks on people.

    Start discussing issues minus spleen and vulgarity and I will willingly engage you. I’ve been doing so, with real people, for the past 50 years.

    In the meantime, meet me every other Sunday in The Sun. I have some more licks for you in two weeks time … to be continued!

    Who are these Johnnies-come-lately to writing, anyway? You mean “deference”, don’t you? Or don’t you know the difference?

    Thanks for the catch we need to hire you in the BU household. We shall correct with haste! You care to say thanks for posting the button in our sidebar which promotes your cause? Would that not be more constructive an exercise you think?

    David

  5. Krzysztof Skubiszewski Avatar
    Krzysztof Skubiszewski

    Interesting that you should run this today.

    Also today, The New York Times has a long and damning article exposing Pentagon dirty tricks where Donald Rumsfeld hired retired military top brass to appear on ALL the TV news shows to praise the Dept. of Defense and by extension, Rumsfeld. Without saying they were being paid handsomely by the Pentagon.

    At a time when other retired generals were calling for Rumsfeld’s resignation for far more than incompetence.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/washington/20generals.html?

    An isolated incident? Of course not.

    We are being told about Iraq only what the US government wants us to know. There are no longer qualified (whatever that means) journalists there because it is too dangerous and the Pentagon doesn’t want them there anyway.

    So why does Mr. Moore expect us to trust the “established” media? Here or there? Because we no longer can. (Not that we ever could anyway.)

    On the phoney smoke-screen argument about using pseudonyms. I am a professional journalist working for a major media house but writing here under an assumed name because it suits me.

    But I could supply Mr. Moore with an extensive list of famous politicians, industrialists, businessmen & women and PR flacks (or is it hacks) who make a tidy living writing under assumed names. Or not using a name at all. (Ever heard of “an anonymous source” Mr. Moore?)

    The classic line in the movie “A Few Good Men” where Jack Nicholson bellows, “The truth! You can’t handle the truth!” is I think, an apt description of the modern (whatever that means) media scene.

    And if the blogs only get it right 75% of the time it’s much better than nothing.


  6. Now who is it getting personal? Unlike the Nation newspaper we don’t have a proof-reader but we hasten to add that despite that luxury we read of the numerous corrections on a daily basis. By the way did we use the word in proper context? You may have the time to rummage in the lexicon of verbiage but we don’t have such luxuary. Ours is to communicate a message. Let us ask you another question. Is it true that you are not allowed to mention BU or BFP in your colomn? We have from good authority that this is the case because the iron lady Mrs Gittens say so.

    Anyway if afte navigating our many blogs and you can’t find issues we dun wid u.

    P.S. we did not use the spell checker on this comment either so don’t be afraid to let the grammarian in you come out.


  7. Seems to me that Carl Moore is full of hate and has one objective to attack the scourge of the blogs at any cause. Maybe he will have the same success he has gotten with his nothing campaign agains noise pollution 🙂

  8. xenophobe chick Avatar
    xenophobe chick

    Bad sign. Your age is showing Mr. Moore. So either give it up altogether or get with the programme. Blogs are here to stay.

    Unlike Krzysztof Skubiszewski I am not a journalist but I do live with one.

    Who grinds his teeth whenever he sees something in a Bajan blog that he would never be allowed to release in his employer’s organ – in the journalistic sense – even though he knows it’s true and often actually knows far more about it than the blogger.

    I did not use a spell-checker and I approve this message.


  9. Why has the Nation and others not publish the truth about how the Ghanaians got here? They know but as usual they are waiting for the green light from someone to publish it. Two months now and they are sitting on information which the public deserves to know. If I was at the nation I would buy a plane ticket for Timothy Slinger and send his tail to Ghana to sniff out this story. Instead they operate in reactive mode.

    Man if I had money I would do it and give the blogs the exclusive. Tell Carl Moore to attack the real problem and take his head from you know where.

  10. Think about It Avatar

    Unfortunately everyone thus far that I have read, has an axe to grind.

    David. I have discerned it in alot of of your subject matter. You stated above: (paraphrase) “It’s your blog and you will introduce what is of concern to you and allow commenters (within reason) to respond”.

    If the subject falls under your “axe” much support is given to it. If for some reason you are “biased” then you too fall under the same disease that the Nation and company have succumbed to.

    We need Journalists/Bloggers who do their utmost to be neutral or there will always be an element of discoloration in everything that is disseminated.

    Thanks for stating the obvious Think about it. Whose blog is it? Should we allow those comments where a commenter was racist and threatened to kill Loveridge foe example? Please man be reasonable and take our disclosure in proper context.

    David


  11. Dear Krzysztof Skubiszewski, I am not asking anyone to “trust the established media”.

    I’ve been a journalist since 1958. There is no one more sceptical that I am. All I ask for is a little decency. Behave yourselves on the Internet. It’s a great invention that mankind should use in making life more worthwhile. Don’t abuse it. That’s all I ask. Tear a man’s ideas to pieces, not the man. Why is that so hard to do?

    No one at The Nation has asked me not to mention the blogs’ names. If or when I have to I will. So far, in the two columns I’ve done, I didn’t think it necessary. You know who you are. Look at the response in just a few hours after the paper hit the road today.

    If “The Iron Lady”—whoever she is—or anyone else at Fontabelle makes any such suggestion, I’ll simply stop writing. I’m busy as it is trying to keep the 68-year-old grey matter from turning to jello!

    I support the blogs. The clean ones. Did you know that I was one of the first Barbadian bloggers? Back there around 2002 when I had a website. I wasn’t as successful as BFP and BU. Please, please, resist telling me that I am jealous. It was costing me too much to run my website and I closed it down. I’m a poor retiree on a fixed pension. Maybe, it was too clean. Right, fellas? Ask the folks at NationLogic if you doubt me.

    BU, thanks for your promised help on noise pollution. The place is too noisy. I hope you are not one of those who love noise? You make enough of it on this website.

    Have a good weekend, and don’t let’s get too emotional.

    P.S. If you need any proof-reading assistance, do let me know.


  12. Well Mr. Moore let us encourage you to start your own blog it is FREE! Click on http://wordpress.com.

    Next we encourage you to read the Wikipedia extract on blogs.

    Finally we challenge you to dare mention BU or BFP in your column and see what happens. Perform that litmus test for us and prove us wrong. Only two columnists have done it to date, Al Gilkes and the BLP colum Beresford Leopold Phillips. We don’t have to explain to an old hand like you Mr. More the power in those columns. Do you have the same power?

    BTW you ask us not to get emotional yet in your column of today you titled your article ‘Send them a banana’. We think we are entitled to get a little emotional. You have started something and we hope that your are prepared to finish it!

  13. NO MORE MARINAS EVER Avatar
    NO MORE MARINAS EVER

    TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

    Please stop me from making a complete ass of myself when I’m 68. Or whatever.


  14. Yaawn … It’s now 4:45p. and that well-known Bajan condition that begins with “n” has started to cut in, after a latish lunch.

    Catch you good folks some other time. Have a good weekend, and be careful on the roads.

    The name is Moore … Carl Moore!


  15. Carl Moore so far we have tried our best to goad you into making some insightful comments but it seems that you are set in your ways. Just remember the ‘world’ is watching to see how a veteran journalist handles himself in the encounter with citizen journalist…lol.


  16. I am not concerned about Mr. Moores opinion of the BFP and BU but I suggest that Mr. Moore when singling out Blogs as “Cowards” and not at the same time addressing the prejudiced, biased and racist practises of the mainstream media in Barbados, who are not only cowards but puppets of the last Government and certain privileged sections of the Barbados elite shows that this man is a bush league commentator and is in the pockets of the elite scavengers of Barbados.

    Let me say that I cannot get either the Barbados Advocate or the Nation News to print any letter to the editor I send them and yet I have letters to the editor printed in International sections of the major press. Maybe Mr. Moore might like to comment on this, before pointing fingers at Blogs as being “Cowards! I suggest Mr. Moore is an Uncle Tom!


  17. If I may quote from a letter I received a while ago:

    “We therefore advise that unless you retract your malicious and unwarranted attack on our client, provide them with an apology and advise us as to what amount you are prepared to pay to our client as compensation for injury caused to its trade, we have advised our client to institute legal proceedings against you forthwith for damages for malicious falsehood without further notice to yourself.

    I have been advised (by my own talent) that I cannot publicly state who sent me this letter. (“They’re just doing their jobs…”.) I am probably making a big mistake simply with this post…

    However, while I agree with Mr. Moore that anonymous posts breed inappropriate personal attacks, I have personally found that, here in Bim at least, having the courage to put one name behind statements can be very expensive.

    It is also perhaps worth noting that only last weekend I might have been mentioned in Flying Fish and Cou Cou. I would provide a link to what was published, but for some reason the content of same is not available on the Internet…

    The traditional Forth Estate need to realize that the Internet allows anyone to have a voice. This is a Good Thing (TM). While you may not always agree with what is said on a blog, the fact is that unless said blog brings value to the dialog, it won’t be read. No one is forcing anyone to read. And, as a corollary, anyone can start their own.

    We live in a changing world — one where anyone can self-publish. In other words, a world where it is impossible to keep secrets secret.

    There is no sense in trying to hold back water; swim, or drown…


  18. Dead Targets;

    Yeah, too right I am a coward….. and so are you.

    I, and I suspect you, enjoy the freedom and anonimity of a blogging pseudonym.

    What is the big deal with true identities?

    It’s the message that counts.

    I don’t know you, or for that matter, Carl Moore ,from Adam but that don’t make no difference in their postings.

    I read every post, analyse it and decide whether to alter my preconcieved view or not.

    That is my prerogative as a human being with a funtioning brain.

    With the exception of Lowdown (BTW where is he to be found on-line this week?), The Nation’s contributors are a woeful bunch of frustrated has-beens and poorly qualified wannabees.

    CM which category are you?

    If you want serious unfettered debate, continue to contribute to the blogs.

    If you really do need the protection of establishment approval to protect your obvious thin skin, stick with your pathetic, outdated and frankly ridiculous brickbats thrown from the safety of a gated fourth estate.


  19. Carl Moore is a dinosaur.

    He is from the old skool and anything new and different scares the hell out of him.

    People like him are commited to the old boys network. The sleeze, corrution, the nastiness he is happy to protect and hide. But this is a new dispensation and we are not willing to take any bs lightly. As his friends the Barbados Labour Party found out recently.

    Carl Moore is irevelent. The best thing for him to do now is to sit quietly in his rocking chair while reading the Nation Newspaper.

    He can tell his buddies in the old media that we are more interested in the blogs than what they have to say. Which is not much anyway e.g. Carl Moore, Albert branford. Yuck!


  20. I like Carl Moore and what he stands for. I find that there is a negative element in the blogs because they are open, but that is because they are free for all.

    I, for only one, accept Mr. Moore’s criticism and will continue to blog forward, knowing that blogs are making history in today’s Barbados, trying to help make a difference.

    There are many things the papers will not touch because of their ownership structures. Does that make them non-issues or irrelevant? Mr. Moore, please, with the greatest respect to you, can this be a damnation or is it the crux of the blog matter?


  21. Just something to consider:

    Anonymity and the Constitutional Right to be Nameless

    By JONATHAN TURLEY

    One of the most interesting facts about George Orwell, author of 1984 and Animal Farm, is that he was not George Orwell. The man who created a society of total transparency and observation chose to conceal his own name, Eric Blair. Authors like Blair, Mary Ann Evans (George Eliot) and Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) adopted nom-de-plums for a variety of reasons ranging from persecution to prejudice to privacy.

    The value of anonymity in public expression is an issue that is now squarely before the Supreme Court. In a little known case, Watchtower Bible Society v. Village of Stratton, the Court is considering a relatively innocuous ordinance requiring a permit for any door-to-door solicitation. As a regulation on commercial solicitation, this ordinance would have attracted little interest but the village included both political and religious advocacy under its regulation. It is now facing a challenge by those who view such speech not as a permitted privilege but as a fundamental right, including the right to remain anonymous in advocacy.

    While the Court has danced around the “right” of anonymity in prior cases, this ordinance may require the Court to either reinforce a free-standing right of anonymity or declare anonymity something of a historical relic. It may also force the Court to better describe the interrelationship between the need for anonymity and the guarantee of rights like that of association and speech.

    Anonymous writing was employed by the political figures who first articulated the foundations for the American republic. In the Federalist Papers and other publications, contemporary readers could only theorize on the true identity of “Brutus,” “Publius,” “Cato,” “Centinel,” “The Federal Farmer,” and “Junius.” The decision of individuals like Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, and James Madison to write under assumed names was not viewed in the least odd or suspicious at the time. Rather, the anonymous voice in politics was viewed as an honored practice.

    SNIP

    Like privacy, anonymity may be a diminishing concept with young Americans. In my Constitutional Law and the Supreme Court class, Watchtower Bible Society drew skepticism from some students who questioned the importance of anonymity or, for that matter, door-to-door solicitation. In the age of the Internet and cyber chat rooms, individuals who go door-to-door seem more irrelevant and even threatening. Moreover, there appears to be less sympathy for those with a fear of being known in a society that is increasingly transparent. In such a fishbowl society, the desire for anonymity seems a quaint, if not a quixotic, obsession.

    Anonymity, however, is not simply the fixation of some unhinged individuals still coping with fears of government microchip implants. There remain citizens who need anonymity to speak freely. For some, there is a fear of the government and a distrust of registration systems. Given the history of abuses by government of its critics, this fear is hardly unreasonable. Starting with the Alien and Sedition Act under President John Adams, the government has periodically cracked down on vocal critics. Such fears are magnified during periods of war or strife. For example, when Attorney General John Ashcroft denounced critics of the war in testimony to Congress as “aiding terrorists,” one could feel many potential critics recede further into the shadows. Criticism of the war or anti-terrorist measures is particularly difficult for individuals of Arab descent or nationality who may fear retaliation against themselves or their family.

    http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/22/anonymity-and-the-constitutional-right-to-be-nameless/


  22. As usual we tend to focus on the negative elements here in Barbados. We admit that there is negative but guess what, there are positives. During the last general election the blogs were able to release information which the traditional media was too shitless to publish. Owen Arthur had them all sitting on eggs. Don’t be fooled, later in Thompson’s tenure he will probably put some pressure on the media as well.

    We have realized from our brief interaction with Mr. Moore that he is set in his ways and he is entitled to be so. We operate on the Internet which is unregulated, it is the down side about the WWW. There is the opportunity to get information out there but any jerk can come on board.

    Having said that Mr. Moore do we throw out the baby with the bath-water?

    Please be advised that this we did not usespell checker.


  23. LOL David.


  24. Is easy for Carl to say wunna be cowards…

    Yet I do not hide, and I nearly paid the price when I ran a legit exposee on a company that needed to show more care for its services – despite my still possessing ALL the evidence!

    There is a reason for the “mask” it’s kinda like Zorro, still yes – it can get ridiculous at times but then that is why there is discretion of choice, no?


  25. PS – even though I do not hide, no one refers to my blog in mainstream media, so answer that Carl – or you deny the Nation/Starcom’s policy of ignoring citizen journalism? If you do, I call you a liar as I have spoken with more than one reporter there who have said so… Even Ellis once asked me about a Rihanna item I ran, but he was careful to do it when it just him and me at a Starcom function.


  26. The image of the DLP’s Minister of Housing, Mr. Michael Lashley embracing a female tenant, Brenda Rouse-King, of a housing unit in the Haynesville Housing Estate, along with a snippet of news about the DLP Government’s intention to transfer ownerships of housing units to certain long standing tenants of the NHC, by way of letters of intent that are to be handed out to her as well as to over 2000 prospective housing unit owners in the Government’s transfer of ownership of NHC housing units programme, appears as part of the Front page of last Friday’s Weekend Nation, Friday, April 18, 2008, and with the full story appearing on a later page in the said newspaper.

    So much for the DLP/Nation public relations – a stark reminder of much of what the last BLP Government/Nation combination used to do to make many members of the newspaper reading public feel as if much was really being done in regard of much of what they ( the BLP and the Nation) were doing – when in truth and in fact much was NOT happening – the fact remains that in this case of the DLP government’s intention to transfer the ownership of certain NHC units to tenants of land standing commitment to the NHC, the DLP deserves NO NO NO NO credit WHATSOEVER FOR THE PROGRAMME, ONLY THESE LONG PAYING TENANTS DESERVE SUCH CREDIT FOR ULTIMATELY BECOMING OWNERS OF SUCH UNITS. Here are four reasons why the DLP does NOT deserve any credit for such a programme:

    1) As in our Pre-election Manifesto a total of 8 years of continous tenancy is enough to bring about such ownership to tenants of NHC (and other renters of dwellings, houses and commercial properties in Barbados) – NOT 20 years and more as the DLP is emphasizing for NHC tenants;

    2) The ten year covenant imposed on these prospective owners of these units – NOT TO SELL – is so silly and stupid that it takes away from real ownership. NO SUCH THING WOULD HAVE EXISTED IF WE WERE THE GOVERNMENT UNDERTAKING A SIMILAR PROGRAM;

    3) These prospective owners over the years after paying such great amounts of accumulated rents really have long owned these units. It is therefore only a matter of the Government formally handing them over to them. Were this Government to have been seen as delaying any longer in handing over these units to the rightful owners, it would clearly have meant that the Government would, in these cases, have been further assisting in the explotation and marginalization of these people; and

    4) The concept of the transfer of ownership in these units to the tenants did NOT start with the DLP, but with many citizens and tenants many years ago. The DLP has simply jumped on the bandwagon for flagrant political reasons. For years the DLP ignored such, only when it politically suited them they began to take such into consideration.

    So, long live the long suffering but resilient tenants of many of these NHC housing units!!

    PDC


  27. yeah definitely cowards! I agree with mr moore!


  28. Who you is ME?

  29. Natural Mystic Avatar

    “For the cause that lacks assitance
    For the wrongs that beg resistance
    and the good that I can do..”

    “The Nation cares..”

    Here is a partial list of what the blogs have done Let’s consider adding to this list:

    Highlight the overexpenditure and the inflated cost of the highway and the flyovers. Only the blogs broke the news while the papers suppressed this hundred million dollar fiasco that swayed elections, and in doing so exceeded many world-wide blog sites, right here from Barbados.

    Showed and exposed methods employed in government and in other areas to source materials and equipment that may not be economical- a form of price gouging that is unaddressed as yet.

    Brought stories that did good for Barbados when the newspapers refused to do so, some of which showed the newspapers as being controlled by big business RATHER THAN, as Sanka Price says today in Nation News, motivated by the need to bring the real relevant news to the community. And most importantly the area where he mentions the need to do right. I can opine that in this respect the requirement to do right, rather than being breached by blogs, was breached by the mainstream news media of Barbados

    Maybe “we” bloggers are cowards and maybe “we”, as bloggers, are whistleblowers, or maybe better referred to as news givers.

    And maybe some of us are liars and cowards, who can say?

    The point for all of us to realise is that our newspapers are failing sections of the Bajan community. Many of these areas are being fulfilled by the blogs.

    Now THAT”S news.


  30. Ha ha, Green Monkey want to know who is “Me”. Would that be because we all know who you are,, Green Monkey/No Name/Sargeant, dont we now.


  31. I think that BU and BFS etc should not hide…I think that they should prsent stories in a proper journalistis balanced way ( even better than the Nation / Advocate). Hyperbole, sensationalistic drivel, name calling, unsubstantiated claims and virulent innuendo helps no one ESPECIALLY if you claim to be presenting the TRUTH. There is no such thing as TRUE freedom of expression given that you arent allowed to shout ‘Fire ‘ when there is none in the middle of a packed theatre! BFS and BU should recognise that bringing ‘NEWS’ does carry some responsibility!


  32. Carl Moore // April 20, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    I’ve already come to the blogosphere and you bored me with your personal attacks on people.

    Start discussing issues minus spleen and vulgarity and I will willingly engage you. I’ve been doing so, with real people, for the past 50 years.

    In the meantime, meet me every other Sunday in The Sun. I have some more licks for you in two weeks time … to be continued!

    Who are these Johnnies-come-lately to writing, anyway? You mean “deference”, don’t you? Or don’t you know the difference?
    =================================

    Few people epitomize a loser in the way this Carl Moore person does. The society for a quieter Barbados will most likely not get traction, or will be taken seriously until its association with this person is discontinued.
    Carl Moore is a condescending and angry person and this personality trait is evident throughout his activities for a quieter Barbados. Noise ordinances are to be found in many societies and their passage and introduction to these societies had not taken this long, or have been fraught with such needless complexity and anger that this Carl Moore person is attempting. There is no need for a subvention, or a government post and pay to introduce noise ordinance laws, and more importantly to sensitize Barbadians to the health benefits of a quieter Barbados. Case in point for year’s trash disposal in Barbados has been haphazard. It was plain to see that a negative cultural attitude existed where believe and practice was evident. It was a practice that suggested by our collective actions that one did not have to care about disposing of one’s trash on the street, in gutters etc, because we had “scavengers” that we paid to clean up our mess. The approach of shaming and threatening people with hefty fines alone did not work. It has taken the efforts of people like Ian Bourne too turn things around via education, organizing tours to the schools for the next generation to learn and appreciate proper trash disposal habits.
    BU why did you find it necessary to highlight this person and their failed attempts as a leading story? He is a failure, and a liar to boot. He failed to make any headway in realizing a quieter Barbados, and he has lied with reference to this entire blog as a place that cannot discuss issues without “spleen and vulgarity”. He has further lied about the unwillingness of persons to post under their real names. When he first attempted to use the latter as a legitimate strike against this blog, he in is usual condescending manner sought to suggest that Adrian Hinds isn’t my real name. If this does not make him an Idiot then I will apologize for calling him one.

    …..and in the usual antics of a Bajan Language maven he takes his failures out on others grammatical and spelling mistakes. Poor fellow deserves pity not to be publicly highlighted for the angry failure that he is. Shame on you BU. 😀


  33. Dear Krzysztof Skubiszewski, I am not asking anyone to “trust the established media”.

    I’ve been a journalist since 1958. There is no one more sceptical that I am. All I ask for is a little decency. Behave yourselves on the Internet. It’s a great invention that mankind should use in making life more worthwhile. Don’t abuse it. That’s all I ask. Tear a man’s ideas to pieces, not the man. Why is that so hard to do?

    No one at The Nation has asked me not to mention the blogs’ names. If or when I have to I will. So far, in the two columns I’ve done, I didn’t think it necessary. You know who you are. Look at the response in just a few hours after the paper hit the road today.

    If “The Iron Lady”—whoever she is—or anyone else at Fontabelle makes any such suggestion, I’ll simply stop writing. I’m busy as it is trying to keep the 68-year-old grey matter from turning to jello!

    I support the blogs. The clean ones. Did you know that I was one of the first Barbadian bloggers? Back there around 2002 when I had a website. I wasn’t as successful as BFP and BU. Please, please, resist telling me that I am jealous. It was costing me too much to run my website and I closed it down. I’m a poor retiree on a fixed pension. Maybe, it was too clean. Right, fellas? Ask the folks at NationLogic if you doubt me.

    BU, thanks for your promised help on noise pollution. The place is too noisy. I hope you are not one of those who love noise? You make enough of it on this website.

    Have a good weekend, and don’t let’s get too emotional.

    P.S. If you need any proof-reading assistance, do let me know.

    David // April 20, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    Well Mr. Moore let us encourage you to start your own blog it is FREE! Click on http://wordpress.com.

    Next we encourage you to read the Wikipedia extract on blogs.

    Finally we challenge you to dare mention BU or BFP in your column and see what happens. Perform that litmus test for us and prove us wrong. Only two columnists have done it to date, Al Gilkes and the BLP colum Beresford Leopold Phillips. We don’t have to explain to an old hand like you Mr. More the power in those columns. Do you have the same power?

    BTW you ask us not to get emotional yet in your column of today you titled your article ‘Send them a banana’. We think we are entitled to get a little emotional. You have started something and we hope that your are prepared to finish it!
    =================================

    Is anyone under any illusions that this Carl Moore is on a personal gloat adventure? I see no reason not to view his attempts with the “quieter Barbados” action in the same light. This is probably why he has failed so far. Someone called him a dinosaur, and i am challenging that. There is to this day a lot of interest in Dinosaurs and this is at odds with this Carl Moore person and anything he has done or is attempting to do.

  34. Journalist from a place in Fontabelle. Avatar
    Journalist from a place in Fontabelle.

    Mr. Moore, you have brought disrepute to our profession by behaving like a petulant child. I never thought the day would come when I thought of you as an epic fail. For goodness sakes man it is time to get real and stop this foolish behavior.

    Can you seriously contend that there is no substantive issues discussed on BU or BFP? By your statement you, sir, do untold damage to your credibility, and ours.


  35. Journalist Carl Moore Love/Hate Relationship With Bajan’s Blogs

    I got my colleagues to agree that all letters to the Editor had to be signed with real names. That policy continues to today.

    My reason was that if Government minister
    Mr John Boyce orders that all music will cease on noisy public transport from next week, you ought to be man enough to stand up and say: “I, DeLisle Moore, vehemently disagree with the minister.” And why.

    Don’t hide behind the safety of some silly pseudonym and snipe at the gentleman, in the process going back down his family tree to disclose whom
    his grandmother cooked for at the great-house
    in Christ Church.

    That’s my problem with “blogging”. I draw the line when such actions degenerate into character assassination and other forms of public mischief . [Source The Nation]

    Of all the things more relevant to write about in these troubles times, Carl Moore in his column ‘”The Moore Things Change”, in today’s newspaper decided to touch on the legacy that Barbadians blogs may leave behind when bloggers hide behind pseudonym and “snipe” at persons with no way of knowing who is doing the sniping.

    Well Mr Moore, there are blogs and there are blogs. Each one have they own unique character. The gossip blogs on the net are aware of what legacy they leave behind, nevertheless their primary concern is to get their gossip out. Then there are tech blogs, health blogs, political blogs, news blogs, financial blogs etc.

    If I find 5 tech blogs and out of those 5, 2 may fancy my interest more, I may even not bother with the other 3!!!!!.

    Secondly persons post/blog anonymously for various reasons. As with character assassination it is left for the author to regulate such or ban if necessary.

    Thirdly why would “all 650 words of this article will appear on a blog, verbatim,” as if us bloggers don’t have anything better to do than to cater to such a facetious statement so as to give you an excuse to bring attention to yourself.

    I must say though the article made for interesting reading in a rather dull Sunday dead tree version.

    Bajan Global Report
    www,bimchat.wordpress.com

  36. Krzysztof Skubiszewski Avatar
    Krzysztof Skubiszewski

    Oh I forgot to mention. We read what we like. In newspapers we skip whole pages of boredom. And there are more blogs that died when no-one read them than newspaper pages we skip. If you get my drift.


  37. In the true spirit of a self confessed Negrocrat, Sir Conrad Reeves, who once said in an address at Harrison College, with the white Governor on the island present “Here i am on Olympus looking down on you ordinary mortals”. This attitude was even more marked in dealing with his own color. It is said that he refused to let his daughter marry the leading physician on the island because that latter was too dark.

    …..Today we have one Carl Moore finding it necessary to suggest that fellow Barbadians could well be Monkeys in need of a ripe Banana. His exact words below

    “BUT THERE IS AN AMUSING IRONY ABOUT THE NEW TECHNOLOGY. ON THE INTERNET AT ANY GIVEN TIME YOU DON’T KNOW WHOM YOU ARE TALKING TO. IT COULD WELL BE A GAGGLE OF MONKEYS ! TO BE ON THE SAFE SIDE I ALWAYS KEEP A RIPE BANANA HANDY.”

    From Conrad Reeves to Carl Moore. Indeed for some people, ….”The more things changes the more they remain the same. ”

    Does he really draw the line on character assassination? or can i just chalk this up as yet another LIE?


  38. When one “claims” to be erudite, they carry a heavy load.

    A gaggle of monkeys surely you mean a “troop” unless you mean bloggers are not human, why “gaggle”? perhaps geese, but I defer, clarity! Oh yes! clarity.


  39. There is nothing erudite about Carl Moore’s focus on BU’s spelling and or grammatical errors. He is, in this case doing no less than other Language mavens have done,….looking for and using these errors to belittle and befuddle persons with whom they cannot win an argument. His use of gaggle however is in good context, for the point that he is labouring to instill in us, about us. Gaggle In colloquial Western Canadian English, is an adjective describing a largely disorganized group of Jildos (another colloquial adjective describing a woman that tends to be annoying and lacking in her own individual opinions) putting forth discontent among all related fellows. To him we are a bunch of disorganize monkeys. Do you not feel sorry for this modern day Conrad Reeves who finds utility in being offensive towards people that have the same skin tone and anatomical features as he? Is it any accident that said skin tone and anatomical features have been caricature by racists as similar to those of monkeys for the purpose of belittling and abusing a particular people?


  40. I just wondered how the person whom I do not know – whose “image” adorns the piece – could choose the word “monkeys” to describe “Bajan bloggers” because he must know the connotations inherent in his choice of word. Therefore my subtle reference to bloggers “not being human”.

    Adrian I take the point you have made.

  41. Outside of the fish bowl Avatar
    Outside of the fish bowl

    One thing I find so funny about about this is that Mr. Moore seems to think it’s okay to call us monkeys. I remember a big stink a few years ago when a West Coast bar painted monkeys in their bar and everybody went nuts! But not to worry Mr. Moore, I’ve been told that if you put a 1000 monkeys in a room with type-writers that they should come up with a novel sooner than later. In the mean time I think that you should consider an apology to us “monkeys” out here; the comment could be taken as being racist at the very least as Adrian has implied.


  42. There was once a plantation owner in the parish of St.Thomas who shot a man that he claim he mistook for a monkey. He had the possibility of poor eye sight, or poor visibility, to lend some credible currency to his claim,…. although it was most likely his sterotypical purview of the “natives” that led to this incident in the first place. What, pray tell can be the excuse that dishonest Carl Moore may use to quiet the concern that his speculation about the “name of the species” that typed the words he has opined to be a serving of bile, spleen?
    …..Yeh Carl, lets call them Monkeys and shoot them down.


  43. I was trying my best to avoid this thread, but what the hell…

    Why wanna don’t leave Carl Moore alone?!?

    …all yuh can’t see that the poor man is trying, even at this late stage to make some meaningful contribution. Carl is best known for his maverick efforts back in the days of the early Nation newspaper in insisting that letters to the editor not use pen names. … that was the high point of his career.

    Obviously he is trying for one last blaze of glory, and what better target that his tried and trusty dig at pseudonyms… in the form of the blogs?

    Carl is a 1960’s version of Peter Wickham, with visions of grandeur and unfortunately not blessed with the necessary talents to realize such dreams. This leads to the taking of really stupid positions on simple issues in attempts to be noticed….

    Personally, I always figured that he was a descendant of the other famous Moore…..
    Ossie.


  44. Bush Tea, LOL, I refused to comment on this thread. But, you have made my day. lol!


  45. Bush Tea you made me laugh, but i cannot concur. Once again this Carl Moore is liken unto something or someone that many others have an interest in, and therein lies the conflict. 😀


  46. […] are responses from bajan global report and barbados underground to the carl moore article. Filed under: Barbados, blogging, media […]


  47. carl moore sounds like a pompous elite with a colonial mentality

    i hate it when these so-called english language gurus play that they can be correcting people’s grammar and making insulting remarks under some classist racists smugness that they would want to proffer as being educated. it sounds like snobbery to me and brings back memories of slavery and the subjugation of black people.


  48. Adrian we highlighted this story for the very reason Mr. Moore and others might suggest we wouldn’t. It provides an opportunity for the blogosphere to discuss this issue as part of the process of determining our rightful place in the world of spreading opinions, ideas, news and the like.

    Maybe after this discussion we may conclude that Mr. Moore is correct with all the feedback we have been getting and bow out like Marginal has with grace.


  49. Fair enough, but i will not be part of anything that this joker is party too. So if he becomes your proof reader and whatever else and i am made aware of it i wil take my leave. I am not surprise by Marginal decision, in fact i hinted at it, over there. NFTM was started for all the wrong reasons, and thats why it did not last.

    Adrian if we were worried about spelling errors we would spend and hour or more to sweep our blogs for spelling errors and grammatical errors. One reason why we like to blog is the spontaneity why it provides. If BU reaches that point where our readers prefer that we become error free then we will have to take that onboard.

    David

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