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Click on image to hear BBC report on Guyana massacre

Analysts Fear Racial Tension Could Spark Further Violence

Calm was reported on Tuesday, in areas of Guyana affected by tensions fueled by the murders of 11 people by a suspected criminal gang last weekend. On Monday, police fired teargas and pellets to disperse hundreds of protesters blocking roads along the country’s east coast. Some groups and analysts, including the human rights association, have expressed concern that tension between Guyana’s ethnic communities could boil over into further violence.

Source: BBC Report

It is prophetic that BU published the article entitled Can Barbados Avoid Escalating Crime & Violence In Neighbouring Trinidad & Guyana? on the 26 January 2008. Our article coincided with the massacre of 11 persons in rural Guyana which is reported to have escalated ethic tensions there. This was a tragic incident and we extend our sympathy to the affected families.

As Barbadians, the unfortunate incident serves to highlight the present danger of an open door immigration policy. We have written ad nauseam on the subject, specifically the impact of Indo-Guyanese on a dominantly Negro nation like Barbados – do a search of our archives using key word ‘Immigration’. It is instructive that Guyana is a country which is split almost down the middle by race, i.e. Indian and Black. It is a country where although the Blacks have enjoyed political power, the Indians have been the economic force in the country. There has been irrefutable evidence manifested through the years of the racial tensions in Guyana. It is a society which continues to struggle to find a basis for sustained harmony between the races. Anyone who challenges this assertion we liken to the proverbial ostrich.

We agree with one commenter who forwarded the view that self-preservation is a natural instinct of animals, the uncivilized kind and it is one which human can do well to learn. We have repeatedly stated that our immigration policy needs to become more efficient. Immigrant labour should be regulated to match demand and the process should be copiously documented. We are amused by the politicians, theoreticians and intellectuals who continue to spout positions based on text book positions. In the Caribbean, we have two living examples of multi-ethnic societies which continue to struggle to find the formula to support coexistence. Why should Barbados experiment with the idea of a growing multi-ethnic society and ignore the perennial racial tensions in Guyana and Trinidad?

We again wish to send out a word of caution to those responsible in our new government to closely examine the current open door policy supported by the past government. It has gotten so bad that illegal immigrants don’t even bother to move around Barbados clandestinely. Ordinary Barbadians can with ease direct the authorities to areas in Barbados where illegal Guyanese can be found in bushels. We have nothing against Guyanese, Indian or Black i.e. in theory. In practice, however, we think that there is sufficient evidence to be concerned. The vast number of Guyanese immigrants are of the unskilled variety and we strongly believe that with a world recession forecasted and the new DLP government’s commitment to slowing capital projects roll-out, excess labour in the construction sector is bound to occur.

Will anyone hear our cry?


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246 responses to “Can Indians And Blacks Co-exist In Barbados?”


  1. David..

    Are you familiar with the implications of arguing with a fool…?


  2. David: I do admire your patience with Thomas Gresham (TG). I think that TG means well but he is looking at the subject from a simply theoretical standpoint (Economics 101), and seems to forget certain realities (or variables), on the ground.
    ……………………………………………………………….
    I would now like to talk a bit about CSME.. although it is not the central theme here….

    The issue is really whether CSME will work for Barbados when fully implemented. Right now it is partially implemented with certain categories like graduates, musicians artists etc. Artisans and unskilled persons still have eto get work permits. The aim of CSME is to ensure that all facets of the agreement are in place by 2015.

    The main reality of CSME is that there is free movement of capital and people between the members of Caricom. The strong business people in the region want the free capital movement for investment. they also want the expanded markets with special benefits re duties and other trade controls (e.g. C.E.S).

    Therefore CSME means effectively one economy with a strong central control, but with individual countries having some control in local decision making. It may not mean one currency like in the eight OECS countries, but like the UK and the EU, there may be different currencies as we have now.

    The idea of CSME stared since the failed W.I. Federation over 50 years ago, which mirrored the UK. government management systems of their colonial structure. Since then the Region has formed various entities which is now Caricom and its entity – the CSME. The problems why CSME will have lots of problems have been reflected on this thread as well as similar ones here on B.U. and B.F.P. I see the situation now like this:

    1.Caricom was asked to form CSME as the FTAA was not going to talk to a whole set of small islands. The formation was taken out of Guyana and moved to Barbados as they wanted to ensure the success of the entity, and away from the talkshop called Caricom ecretariat – a toothless entity.

    2. FTAA plans got scuttled so the USA set up the Central America Free Trade Area (CAFTA) and included the Dominican rebublic. I believe that the USA is no longer interested in what the ex-British colonies do.. as it is not an economic or security issue, except for illegal drugs.

    3. Chavez and Venezuela has put a spanner in the USa plans with his South American initiative where he is promoting ALBA, a trading and investment entity that would promote south American integration – using Venezuela’s oil wealth. We already see island like Dominica moving towards joining that entity. We cannot tell if Chavez will succeed, but his Petro Caribe and ALBA initiatives, however it is obvious that times have changed, and new options are there especially in a Caricom that is weak and ineffective.

    4. It may be noted that the EU deal sigbed last December is NOT with Caricom but with each of the countries including the Dominican Republic. .. that form Cariforum. this tells us that they do not consider Caricom as a signatory for the individual countries.

    5. I beleieve that Caricom is a talk shop that makes agreements taht are not followed through with action or implementation e.g The Caribbean Court of Justice. I believe that the CSME was created to ensure integration, but it has also been plagued by the same implementation issues where there is no buy-in by every country to ensure its success
    .
    6. Then there is the change of governments in the region and a new set of faces in Jamaica, St. Lucia and now Barbados. Are these governments really MORE committed to Caricom or CSME as their predecessors? I would say NO!, based on waht I have heard in the news and from speeches. These governments are also occupied with serious internal problems revolving around economic matters and criminal activity that could affect their main industry of TOURISM.

    7. Trinidad should have taken a lead role in Caricom and CSME and has not. Petro-Caribe was a wake up call for them but they are only interested in building Trinidad and exporting and investing in the region using the preferential entitlements. Jamaica seems far away from everything and has never taken a lead role recently in any integration movement. P.M. Bruce Golding was never a supporter of CSME so can you expect any interest from him? He has to deal with a country with” the highest murder rate in the world”, according to the Economist magazine.

    8. So I think that the CSME king has no clothes and efforts to clothe him at this time will fail. Why? The USA does not care what we do. The drug lors and the crime entities control Trinidad Jamaica and Guyana which are the three largest countries. The economies are all under stress except for Trinidad… but their increasing crime is afecting everything there.

    9. In Barbados we have the CSME office which was ably run by ex PM Owen Arthur. The ideals of economic integration were spawned in the days of Barbados’s Barrow and Guyana’s Burnham in the 60’s, 70’s and early 80’s.. Many of its ideals are credible. The issue is always in the level and processes to implementation, and this has been dismal throughout the last 25 years. Lately, the reality of the illicit drugs and crime in many of the islands mentioned earlier does not encourage uncontrolled free movement of populations, irrespective of the arguments of some that immigration is a good thing. The pressure is also on labour competition which would lower wages and standards as well as put pressure on housing, education and health services in some countries. e.g Barbados, which is a small island but with a relatively high standard of living will attract immigrants.

    10. Lastly ,the new Prime Minister David Thompson of Barbados is now reposible for CSME as Owen Arthur was in the past, since its formation. It would be interesting as see what he does about the “REALITIES of CSME”, as they affect the region and Barbados in particular. It is not an easy decision for him to make as he cannot be seen not to accept the CSME mantra, even though little has been done to ensure an orderly and inclusive approach by ALL of the Caricom members to ensure its success – if that is the agreed wish of the PEOPLE within Caricom.

    Analyst


  3. I still need to fully understand the role of the increasing amount of Asians living in Barbados.

    This is another area, which if left unchecked might go down in the history books as bringing us on par with Australia’s humble beeginnings.


  4. I apologize, the word should be beginning.


  5. Dear David,

    Let me tell you two real stories – in some risk of losing my anonymity. Not stories I am proud of, and I beg for your understanding.

    I had a helper last year, who was a Afro-Guyanese. She was recommended to me from a friend. She was a fantastic help to me, my wife, kids and our pets. She looked after and loved my family. Her son came over to spend some time with us and he was a lovely, boy, missing his mum. We felt love for the family.

    I discovered three months later that she had overstayed her visa. I discovered this when one day she came in late, and it transpired that she was trying to dodge the police who had done a search of the area looking for illegal immigrants. The police picked up many of her friends but, perhaps, because she is black and did not look like her Indian friends she was not picked up. She was scared. She told me frightening tales of how badly the Guyanese police treated deportees – locking them up without bathroom facilities for over 24 hours. Her cousin had soiled herself and been degraded by the Guyanese police.

    I spoke to an immigration lawyer who said to me there was nothing to be done to change her legal position, she had to return. I explained to her that it would be better if she returned home by herself. She did not want to leave. I said I would pay for her return ticket and give her money to live on for a couple months. She relented one week later after another police swoop.

    She was not maltreated by anybody on the way out and back in Guyana. Three months later she tried to return to Barbados. She was refused entry on the grounds that she had previously overstayed. She was deported and treated poorly back home. I transferred some money and explained to her that I could not employ someone who was not legal.

    My wife is Trinidadian. She has four degrees and academic prizes. She has taught at the best Universities in the world. She applied for a CSME certificate so that she could stay in Barbados. Trinidad gave it to her after a frustrating 12 months of form filling and document transfers. She arrived in Barbados (I and the kids are Barbadian) and she was told that Barbados does not accept the Trinidad certification and she would have to repeat the process in Barbados. Since then I have come across two other people in exactly the same boat.

    My experience of working in Barbados after sometime abroad is that our economy is crying out to being grabbed by the coat-tails and shaken up in the way that hungry economic immigrants do. But unskilled workers cannot get work permits.

    We have an inconsistent immigration policy. We have only recently got tougher on overstayers. But does all this strike you as an “open door” policy?

    I have already set out the three things we need to do to better manage immigration (which you have chosen to ignore):

    (1) tougher on employers of overstayers (I should have been fearful that she was an overstayer)
    (2) give permits equal to 1-2% of the labour force every year, half for the unskilled, half for the skilled,
    (3) use the economic benefits of immigration to upskill our unskilled.


  6. The real problem with illegal immigration is with selfish, dishonest Barbadians like Gresham who flout the laws to employ illegal aliens in order to underpay and exploit them.
    I am willing to bet that both he and his wife work at BARBADIAN pay rates, under BARBADIAN conditions that have been negotiated directly or indirectly by the BWU and other unions.
    These people – (many contractors, businessmen etc are guilty of this)- actually seek out these unfortunate immigrants who they know have no recourse, and exploit them with low wages, long hours and unreasonable duties (looking after your pets indeed!!)

    But to admit to aiding and abetting someone that he knows to be breaking the laws, and assisting in hiding them from the police is shameful….and to document it all here….well what can I say?

    Bur David herein lies the root of our problem…SELFISHNESS.
    Bajans who want to work for decent wages themselves, but who want to exploit others who happen to be in unfortunate circumstances, and so avoid paying decent wages for services needed themselves.

    …no wonder he wants an open door.
    These ’employers’ are the ones that our immigration laws should be targeting.


  7. Bush Tea.

    Once more your assumptions pander to your prejudices but are false.

    I sent her home as soon as I knew she was illegal. I never hid her and I paid her to go home. I doubt you would.

    She wasn’t under paid. She was paid B$70 for a days work. You would pay more? And no, anyone who reads this blog would guess, but I know you need help, I am not paid at a BWU rate.

    Keep on missing the points you want to miss and making up others if you wish. But the point was that my experience is not one of an “open door”


  8. Bush Tea,

    By the way, I was the first one on this bog to argue repeatedly that what we need to do is to be tougher on employers who hire illegals (so that they are forced to check and not turn a blind eye).


  9. …You mean you still don’t get my point?
    I would not have to pay to send my help home because she is a BAJAN who lives within walking distance. I pay her more that $70 because she has been with me for nearly 20 years and her wages grew with my salary.

    If I chose to go to Trinidad to live I would expect to assimilate into Trini culture and Trini ways. I would seek Trini helpers and pay at Trini rates.
    I would obey Trini laws…. I would become a Trini.

    …you are just a lot of talk.
    First I explained to you that if you feel so strongly about having strangers coming into our small country you should demonstrate this by opening your home to an orphan or other destitute person by way of example…. no action.

    Now you say that you were first to argue for tough laws on employers of illegals… and you hire a n illegal without even checking her papers (otherwise you would know her time was up..)

    …man go off the computer and go and feed your pets or something.


  10. Bust Tea,

    I said I was not proud of the example. I did not have to be honest to you and I could have done what many Bajans do, which is to pretend not to know and not to say a word. I acted. I acted in the best interests of her and with consideration for the law. I feel I did the christian thing, but as I said before, I was not proud of the whole thing.

    But the issue is not my actions (get with the pont) but the actions of the immigration and police service and whether this smacked of an open door policy or not.

    You chose to ignore that as you chose to ignore all facts and argument in favour of your cave man economics. Just try transplanting your ideas to any other country and you will see how foolhardy they are. Imagine a Brit saying they would never employ a Barbadian only a Brit or otherwise they would not be being British. There are 1 million Poles in Britain today – guess who employs them.


  11. Have a good night Mr Thomas G.
    For some time now my point has been that you are all talk and long posts, and no action or reality behind the words.
    QED.
    I close my case.


  12. Dear Bush Tea,

    Yes, it must be your bed time now. Have a good night.


  13. If Barbados was 90% Indian and some of you black guys were trying to get in you would understand what sister baby is talking about. No not all Indians are racist. But ask those black cricketers who plays for the West Indies what they think about playing in Guyana and Trinidad. Some the people would praise the Indians on the West Indies side, while booing the black players. Hell, only recently Indian spectators were referring to a black Australian player as a “monkey”. And he aint even very black.

    David Duke claims he went to India to learn about Aryan Supremacy. That should tell you about the culture behind Indian Racism. To many of them black people represent their Hindu devil. That is why they threaten to kill their daughter if they date black men.


  14. Maybe if there was an annonymous blog for Guyanese Indians, some would spout the same racist crap as we are hearing from some of our own people. Which would be a pity and cause for us to work doubly harder for harmony. The solution is not a version of Ian Smith’s Unilateral Declaration of Independence from the rest of the world.

    ############################

    There are a lot blogs where Guyanese Indians and Trinidad Indians call black people dogs and refer to us as criminals. I watched a BBC program on Guyana a couple of years ago and Indians were referring to guyanese blacks as “black dogs”. Neither this or any other blog populated by black people can equal the visceral racist expressions that inundate those sites.

    In the first place TG, black people do nopt originate from any cultural belief system based on racial suremacy. Examine the history of racism in this world and its expression have alway been founded on the mythical belief that one group is superior and the other is inferior.

    Indians originate from a culture with a history of caste ordaining ones position. Unfortunately too many of them, when they came to the Caribbean, morphed into Brahmins and so blacks here have to become Dalits….


  15. We are struggling to understand why BU is being labeled as racist?

    ##########################

    Everytime a black person points out the prejucies of SOME Indians that is labelled as racism. And in the course of making that accusation, the accuser makes exactly the same kinds of statements that they consider racist when it comes from blacks.

    Let us examine attitudes across the globe. Blacks are color blind consumers in whose communities all and sundry come to do business. In Guyana and Trinidad and Tobago, when there is an Indian Holiday blacks come out and participate. Contrast that to holidays commemorating some aspect of black history.

    Yes there are blacks who are prejudiced as occurs with every other group. What you do not have with blacks is the systematic and organized racist behaviour that is the result of prejudice plus power.

    For many Indians living under the rule of a blackman is an anathema. They are unwilling, some say, to live under the son of a slave.

    I do not believe that all Indians are racist. I do not believe that most Indians are racist. What happens is that Indians tend to close ranks rather than admitting that some of them are racist. They virtually lynched Keane Gibson in Guyana for exposinjg what is common knowledge, and what many Indians and other non black people have been writing about for eons. Take one look at the images of Bollywood and you get the picture of where the color priority is.


  16. I see that the racists are hiding behind the story of caste, a device used by Gibson.

    Let us be clear of three things.

    1. Caste is one shameful part of the practice of hinduism. Many hindus would agree with that. It was exploited by British colonial rule and made into something that it was not before. One of the first acts of the independent government was to outlaw caste discrimination, that was 60 years ago.

    2. Caste was one of the reasons why many hindus changed their religion and became Muslims, Sikhs, Bhudists. To label all Indians as under the yolk of caste is wrong. Many of these conversions occurred in the 18th and 19th centuries and have largely stopped now that caste is largely in the past, though as we know, the vestiges of past discrimation last long and need to be attacked constantly.

    3. The past practice of caste like systems, and discrimination based on different races of tribes is not unique to India and is a strong element of the conflicts today in Kenya, Rwanda, Zaire and Sudan. What do you think is happening in Kenya today? Our black culture has connections with Africa and with the British. British superiority culture played a shameful part in the genocide of the Amerindians, Aborigines and of course in slavery. To say that Indians are somehow culturally tuned into racism in a way that we are not is deliberately misleading.

    Hitler justified his actions because he said the jews were intrinsically racist. The colonialists justified slavery because blacks, they said, were intrinsically inferior and they had the (“white man’s”) burden to save us from ourselves. It is the common device of racists to demonise those they dislike and to victimise themselves. Dont.


  17. Humphrey did we not hear the same arguments when the Mutual Society, as it was then, being challenged for its perceived decisions at Board level along racial lines? It seems to us that Sagicor has benefited from the exercise, wouldn’t you say?


  18. Absolutely David. I have little patience with idiots who wax philosophically around the perimeters of issues and perceive that it will be taken as an indication of their intellectual growth and maturity. What it amounts to is much ado about symbols and very little about substance.

    TG no one is saying that all Indians are racist. Neither are we postulating that racism is unique to India. Like all of those who refuse to call a shovel a shovel, you point to the existence of an evil elswhere to rationalize its presence somewhere. That is a puerile proposition, and insults the intelligence exhibited in this db.

    The fact that Hindus changed their religion to escape the taint of caste do not rebut the notion that some of them carried the culture of anti-blackness into their new awareness. Look at Darfur. Ask Danny Glover who it was that refused to pick him up in a taxi in Manhattan.

    Look, let me make it plain and unambiguous. Anti black prejudice is a universal trait, existing even among the very population group that is the target of the antipathy. We spend too much time trying rationalize why people do not like us, and too little time telling them like it is, and telling to go take a hike.

    I absolutely regect your sophomoric posit that identifying and analysing racist and prejudicial traits among some group amounts to racism. This is the weapon of choice for those of you wish to silence debate on a topic you are either, uncomfortable with, or consider to be a sacred cow requiring protection against illumination. Regardless of which it is, the practise is still nauseating.


  19. Humphrey,

    You dont get it.

    Racism is when you say that an another race is intrinsically (e.g. built in to their culture) bad or racist, as you and your friends are doing on this post.

    This racism is dangerous.

    In its most ridiculous and dangerous form it was fanned by Hutu extremists against the Tutsis and led to the genocide of Rwanda. The extremists are dong it in Kenya to forment hatred between the Kikuyu and the Luo.

    It must be confronted for what it is, wherever it is, from whoever it is.


  20. Humphrey,

    You dont get it.

    Racism is when you say that an another race is intrinsically (e.g. built in to their culture) bad or racist, as you and your friends are doing on this post.

    This racism is dangerous.
    #############################

    It is you who do not get it. If you did you would post the quote where I said or alluded that which you are alleging. You keep parroting a mantra that is contextually distant from my propositions. What the hell is the matter with you?

    I have noticed that you have this prevaricative disposition to mischaracterize what those you don’t agree with say. I said SOME Indians. I said of course not all Indians are racist. I said maybe most Indians are not racist. That you persist in reading into my comments that which you wish to argue against is evidence that you come to these discussions seriously flawed in terms of your capacity get the point.

    Over four hundred young blackmen were kidnapped, tortured and killed in Guyana under the guise of vigilante justice. Indians commit violent crimes disguised in Rasta wigs and young blackmen get gunned down. Blackmen and black women who have spent years in the Public Service in Guyana are shunted aside while unqualified party hacks get positions over them. If that was happening in a white majoritarian nation it would be described as racism. Why the hell should it be euphemicized because the majority happen to be a darker shade of pale. Give me a break.

    Your platitudinous assertions are par for the course for those with their heads up their rear end, who attack others and accuse them of being racist for exposing racism.

    Let me give you a little english lesson. There is difference between racism and prejudice. Making statements that generalizes across a group is prejudice, judgemental. Being Prejudiced and acting on it to the detriment of those you are prejudiced against is an act of racism.

    I am done talking with you. I debate people who respond to what I say, not those who twist it in order to find a point to argue against. That is pathetic


  21. This is my last post on this topic.

    The quotes below from Humphrey’s blogs reveals a racist characterization of Indians as being inherently worse than us when it comes to racial discrimination.

    To define other cultures as inherently racist and their own as above all that, is what racists do,

    it is, sadly, an airbrushed view of our own history that ignores the 1 million people who died in the conflict between the Ibo and southern Nigerians during the Biafra war, or the 1 million who died in the conflict between the Hutu and the Tutsi in Rawanda or those dying today in the conflict between the Kikuyu and the Luo in Kenya today.

    According to Humphrey:

    “black people do nopt originate from any cultural belief system based on racial suremacy.”

    “David Duke claims he went to India to learn about Aryan Supremacy. That should tell you about the culture behind Indian Racism.”

    “Blacks are color blind consumers in whose communities all and sundry come to do business.”

    “Indians originate from a culture with a history of caste ordaining ones position”

    “To many of them black people represent their Hindu devil.”

    “What you do not have with blacks is the systematic and organized racist behaviour that is the result of prejudice plus power.


  22. Either you are crazy, or just insipid. In the first place all of those comments are factual.

    Africans are one of the few groups absent a belief system based on their superiority.

    David Duke claims that until he went to India, he never understood the real difference between races.

    Blacks are color blind consumers, that is why businesses in our communities are veritable mosaic of various cultures. You have to either stupid or just plain dumb not to know this.

    Indians do originated from a system where caste determines ones position. The belief is based on what part of the body of the deity each group was created from. The darkest, the dalits were said to be created from the feet of the deity, hence their position at the bottom of the social pyramid.

    To many Indians in Guyana black people represent the Hindu Devil. Cheddie Jagan described Burnham as nickaram, or whatever name is used to denote the devil.

    Tell me of any place in this world where black people are behind an organized system of racist behaviour against a minority population.

    Your world is apparently defined by a tunnel that allows limited light in terms of the reality. Stating what is a fact cannot be racist. I am tired of fools who surf the issues of this world and ejaculate the kind of opinions one expects from fifth graders. ejaculate a lot of nonsense of This is what happens when people mliYou have to be very cvaccuous carry out organized You are our commiunity u


  23. I stumbled upon the BU website I am in complete shock that the majority of comments are blatantly racist. If such comments were made about Jews in Germany or Asians in the UK y’all would be considered Neo-Nazis. What planet are you one? What century do you live in? The Caribbean has been multi-racial for centuries, not just Trinidad and Guyana, but St. Lucia, St. Vincent, Grenada, Jamaica, and yes even your precious & pure Barbados. The only way forward is to embrace the Creole identity that defines the Caribbean (read Walter Rodney), without suppressing each other’s right to belong. Maybe you need to look into the history books (make me wonder about the Bajan educational system) — you would realize that most of us (African, Indian, Chinese, Portuguese) were transported to the Caribbean to cater to the economic interests of imperialist Britain. It is precisely narrow-minded, racially exclusive people like you who are the cause of problems in the Caribbean. Educate your minds, set yourself free!!!


  24. Iam supposed to travel to barbados on work and stay for 6 months. I stumbled up on this site to find that there is lot of racist feelings against indians(i mean from East India). Iam travelling to this place for the first time. After going thru this blog iam really concerned though I will be in Barbados to improve FCIB bank operations for better economy and banking.

    Now please let me know is it good to stay in barbados and work for shorter periods for indians, paying all the taxes(i always do wherever i work!)


  25. Dear Sunnyland,

    The racist views expressed on this blog are disturbing and shameful, especially given our history.

    However, they represent a small minority, some of whom do not actually live in Barbados.

    I know many professional friends of Indian descent, especially in the finance sector, who live and work happily in Barbados – many have done so for decades and have Barbados-born children who view themselves as Barbadians with Indian traditions. They have helped to improve the international competitiveness of sectors of our economy that contribute substantially in terms of tax and employment.

    I had some friends over for dinner last night and there were a couple wives of Indian descent here, and I asked them whether the racist views I had seen on this site was something they had come across more generally. One said no, the other said only last week she had come across someone saying to her that “everyone knew that crime in Barbados was committed by Indo-Guyanese”. As if we did not have crime before and as if our prison is currently full of Indo-Guyanese (not). But the point is that these views are held by a few, particularly uninformed people, not the average Barbadian, who is generally a well-informed person.

    So, come along to Barbados, and help us develop our banking sector, and enjoy your stay. And while you are here, help us develop a more internationally competitive banking system with lower bank charges……


  26. Thanks Thomas for your views. This gives me some confidence and inclination to travel Barbados.


  27. Is it not biased to say ‘All illegal migrants are indians’ though passively Mr.David. Our open door policy as you claim to be, is not open for illegal migrants of indian origin. It is leniant on africans and others but I could see for myself and also got to know from others in the neighbourhood that the enforcement authorities are selectively targetting indians (whether indo-guyanese/indians) in search of their ‘illegal migrants’.

    Iam living here for past 2years on a valid visa and working with MNC here. I also worked in US and UK for some years and so had good / bad experiences of racism. I found that blacks (if i can call them as, though iam not racist but going thru these blogs makes me sad!) in general do have a superiority complex over Indians(or browns?). They behave little indifferent to us in a group…seem heckling at us. I have observed the same indifference even in the Barbados national carrier while flying from US coast. All these indicate that Blacks in general are complex to get set in a multi racial country.

    But status of Africa today with infighting tells me even with in blacks there are many differences. So being different is no bad but to understand others is most vital for survival of any multi racial country. I love Barbados for its beaches and Garry sobers such a fine cricketer in the world. I wish Barbados doesnt fall under this mad racist feelings. Live and let live.


  28. btw as this blog trained guns on Indians as the racist, made me laugh for the misinformation that people here seem to have, as India having suffered for 200 years of British imperial and racial rule, be itself racial? Let us check some facts on India and Indians

    1. Post independence, India isolated SA because of its apartheid and racial policies at blacks. India lost valuable biz of cheaper diamonds, mine technology etc because of its anti-apartheid policy, implemented even before UK / USA could really think of.

    2. India initiated NAM (non aligned movement) included most of the african nations to be independent and not to be exploited by either of USA or Russia in cold war days. By doing this India lost out to both the super powers and suffered brain drain out of india as many scientists had to leave for greener pastures for want of better employment. India suffered but not let others suffer.

    3. India constantly supported public movements in nations under UK imperial rule till they got independence, in UNO by voting for those voices. India stood out clearly of the rest with its outspoken foreign policy of ‘freedom from uppression’ as it knows the value of freedom.

    4. It suffered losses to Pakistan / China as a policty of ‘no first use of army aggression’ against these countries. By doing this, those countries could occupy much of the disputed border areas which were not returned to India after the wars. India always stands of non violence and peaceful solutions of its regional disputes.

    5. India and Indians allowed numerous sects / races to come and settle in the country…most of whom just invaded the country to ransom by taking away innumerous treasures of gold and diamonds to their country. UK is the prime beneficiary. If you visit UK you can see all those treasures displayed at Queens’ gallery at Buckingham palace.

    Anyways if we can understand others to an extant possible, then it makes our life meaningful. Let us not forget that almost all of those who knock our doors are not thieves…so are Indians! We are just here to work for some money and not to rob you off. Live and let live!


  29. One often despairs at the information disseminated on the blogs, particularly when opinions of individuals are taken as representative of a particular group and actions of a few, are considered the actions of a given racial type.

    Let us first examine the Indo/Guyanese situation in Barbados, based on facts only.

    (1) Barbados is a very small island with a majority black population.

    (2) It follows that a small sudden increase in certain parliamentary constituencies, can upset a balance that has been there for generations.

    (3) Barbados has been reasonably trouble free in comparison with some islands in the Caribbean.

    (4) It is true that there is tension in both Guyana and Trinidad between Guyanese of Indian heritage and blacks, as evidenced by recent events. The blame for this tension I will put to one side now – I am only interested in facts.

    Let us now address concerns, some Barbadians are concerned that if there is an increase in the Indo/Guyanese population, particularly if those immigrants are illegal, and the type of persons who have caused trouble in Guyana, they will do the same in Barbados. That is a reasonable position to take.

    The issue of the economic benefit of immigrants is a separate issue, because there are some who will say, we would rather not have the economic benefits, if the price to be paid is the instability that is prevalent in Guyana and Trinidad.

    I would suggest, if the new illegal immigrants and I state “illegal” were from Africa, Europe or where ever, if it was thought their behaviour was causing concern, the reaction of some Barbadians would be as it is now.

    What some Barbadians are saying is that immigrants should be legal, they should have permission to work in Barbados if that is what they intend to do, and they should not engage in crime and other unsocial activities which cause the Barbadian authorities concern.

    That is a reasonable position, which is taken by countries all over the world, why should Barbados be any different. Can anyone just turn up in America? even the Mexicans who share a common border cannot do so. Can anyone just turn up in the UK or any European Country if they just feel like doing so, why should Barbados be any different. Could I just go to India or Pakistan to live if I felt like doing so, no I could not, and I would not be offended for that position, they are sovereign countries.

    Race has been used here to identify, as a result a broad brush approach has been taken, which is most unfortunate.


  30. As some one pointed here, the level of crime in Barbados indulged by the locals is far more critical than illegal migrants settling down at this stage. Having said that there should be more pro active migraton laws which can “regulate” than ‘selectively punitive’ applicable for all races irrespective of the color, which will definitely help Barbados. Then comes what kinda skills we require, if we employ indians of hi skills then are we prepared work under their leadership? NO so we shall prefer lower skilled migrants then they may get in larger numbers and so the locals might become more negative over the policy and say “We dont want anybody” So lets snap the doors?

    But ‘close door’ policy will not help the country anymore in the times of globalisation and even other larger countries failed to be closed for long likes of Russian federation, India, China etc with all their marco economies and scalable resources at hand including human resources. For countrys development and upliftment the social strata and society should always have right mix of people and wealth, though we can never have equal wealth distribution in any society in the past, present and future times even.

    Yardbroom – In India there are atleast 10millions of refugees (illegal migrants) from Pakistan/Bangladesh/Srilanka/Bhutan and host of other nations you might not have even heard off, are living and government on its part paying for their expenses. Iam not counting on ‘Dalai Lama’ and his religious people living in Monasteries bordering China having been thrown out of Tibet. India has shown tremondous will and patience to all of these ‘have nots’. Well that doesnt mean Barbados should afford such migrant flow. I know kinda economies and size matters a lot.

    But I wish Barbados lives peacefully without mad racist feelings.


  31. indijoe ~we see you agree with us that we need to manage inflows of immigrants. We see you make mention of a similar problem which India has but then you qualified the statement by recognizing you are comparing a large India to a small Barbados. What are you saying?


  32. Dear David, if you could go thru my earlier posts you would realise that India/ indians or Hindu bashing is not solutions for Barbados problems, as some of the bloggers did blatantly on this blog.

    From my previous posts it is self explanatory of my intentions for a peaceful Barbados. I wish Barbados learn to manage the migrants inflow sans any discrimination and not as some of you suggested in this blog. Taking Indians as the root cause for todays crime neither represent the true state nor help the country. ‘All illegal migrants are indians’ though passively expressed in the article, doesnt augur well for the society which is embracing the new economical order of the world.


  33. indijoe
    You wrote “Yardbroom-In India there are at least 10 millions of refugees (illegal migrants) from Pakistan/Bangladesh/Srilanka/Bhutan and a host of other nations you might not have heard of”…

    The above statement shows you have not grasped the central problem we are discussing.

    None of those countries has the African/Indian mix which Barbadians are concerned about, eg nearer home in Trinidad and Guyana where tensions have arisen.

    If as you wish me to, go further afield, in Kenya, Uganda Fiji to name a few countries where the indigenous population is of African heritage there have been problems when the Indian population has risen to a noticeable percentage. I will not hazard a guess why – as I am only interested in outcomes.

    For those of us who have travelled or lived in Asian countries, we have opinions why, but that is just opinion.

    What I have stated is based on history, facts and the experience of other countries. I would like to think Barbados will be different to all the others in that regard …but I fear not.


  34. Yardbroom,

    I was just replying to your earlier blog
    “…Can anyone just turn up in the UK or any European Country if they just feel like doing so, why should Barbados be any different. Could I just go to India or Pakistan to live if I felt like doing so, no I could not….” to let you know how impractical and porous international illegal migrant rules are.
    USA and UK also no exception to this.

    Migrants be it legal or illegal brings in certain economic advantages and their willingness to work hard in extreme conditions made mark for them. But not always liked by the locals for the fear of not being as competetive as them and to mitigate such rise of non-locals, we raise on to religion, social strata, race …what not!

    I hate being racial towards any person based on his color or descendence and I wont be timid in raising such exclusive, race based policies and thought process anywhere!


  35. indiejoe
    I do not see the Barbados situation as simply racial, if the “illegal” immigrants were black and from another West Indian island, concerns would still be expressed.

    The main problem is that Barbadians have models close at hand, to which they can refer eg Trinidad and Guyana and the outcomes there in the main have not been good.

    It is true that immigrants both legal and “illegal” can sometimes benefit a country in the short term. However in “some instances” the societal negative impact can outweigh those economic advantages, therefore the reasons for concern.

    I would never denigrate a people on the basis of race alone, I have never done so. The issue here is societal cohesion, orderly function of society and efforts to ensure that the fabric of Barbadian society to which immigrants feel disposed to be part of, is kept intact.


  36. Can anyone name a country with black indigenous residents or black residents that preceded the arrival of Indians, where these population groups live in harmony. Forget the cause of the tension just name one and let’s go from there.

    People like to talk around issues rather than dealing with facts and realities. They choose political correctness over rational examination. Barbados is a small nation with social and economic stability inconsistent with her more resource rich neighbours of Guyana and Trinidad and Tobago. That the primary causative operant in the situation of those two states is tension, suspicion and insecurity between the two major groups speaks for itself. Maybe Africans and Indians are just not culturally compatible to exist harmoniously on a common plain.

    The immigrants mentioned migrating to India are different mainly in beliefs rather than in physical make-up. So that is a straw argument being juxtapositioned to evade the central issue. The central issue is whether Barbados as a small nation will be helped or harmed by an influx of new people from social environments inundated with prejudice? Will the residue of that nurturing be conducive to the health and well being of Barbados? Forget this shit about economic benefits. Of what good is that if the price is Barbados becoming a smaller version of Guyana or Trinidad and Tobago. Let’s make it bloody plain man.


  37. Almost every southern and east African country has a large Indian minority (e.g. South Africa, Tanzania, Zambia, Malawi, Kenya etc). The Indians came with the trading routes across the Indian ocean. North Africa of course has a large Muslim majority.

    In South Africa, Zambia, Malawi, Tanzania there is a long history of peaceful co-existence and you often come across Indian Ministers and officials in these African countries. There is of course far more intra-African strife (Congo, Rwanda, Angola, Nigeria, Ethiopia, than the odd African-Indian strife in Africa.

    The one place where there was major trouble, in Uganda, when many black Ugandans expressed similar views being expressed here about Indians, and the Indians were chucked out. In recent years the Black Ugandan government has been trying to get them to come back.


  38. You are absolutely wrong. There are problems on the Cape in South Africa. A song was made about it and it got banned. There are problems in Kenya. Talk to black Kenyans and they will inundate you with anecdotes of prejudice.

    The Indians that were sent away from Uganda all had British Passports. That was the central issue behind their deportation. I disagree with the procedure and considered it racist, but it was not simply a case of Indians being willy nilly [icked on and sent away.

    In Fiji, the indigenuos peoples revolted because 0f discrimination and prejudice. The same trend surfaced when Panday was in power in T&T, and is in operation in Guyana today.

    If Africa and Africans were predisposed to be judgemental about others I doubt if the tendency would have been for people to be pouring into the countries and communities where they are, than vice versa. There is a stunning myopia existing in an argumjent that does not examine mountainous evidence of receptivity.


  39. India as a narion has never had a policy of racism against blacks and no one has made that argument. It is an extrapolation employed to avoid dealing with the facts as they are represented. If you guys get me pissed I will visit the numerous Indian Websites in cuber space and post excerpts of their comments. Nothing in here comes close to what is said about blacks on GNI and other predominant Indian Websites, and I will make it my duty to copy and paste examples for the fools to ruminate on. vvthAll of the comments spoke of th


  40. indians save……starve themselves, take loans, build house, starve self more pay loan

    blacks parties, buy nikes, enjoy life

    These are the recent comments from a predominant Indian Guyanese website, and this is mild in comparison to what is said nthere. The same people who make these racist comments come on boards like this and accuse other of being prejudice. I scour cyber space and can provide evidence behind my perspectives. You cannot find one black website with comments on par with what you will find there.


  41. Freddie Kissoon
    A disturbing thing I heard at Deryck Bernard’s wake

    On Sunday evening, at the wake of Deryck Bernard, Mr. David Dewar, in a casual chat, informed me that his contract with Guyana Water Incorporated (GWI) was not renewed. I didn’t ask him to repeat the statement. I know if David Dewar said that, then it happened because Mr. Dewar is not someone given to exaggeration.

    The Dewars have served this country patriotically not only in the public sector but culturally too. Mr. Dewar has forty years experience in the water sector and may be the only Guyanese to hold a Masters degree in water engineering. He is one of the finest pubic servants this country has produced.

    The chairman of GWI, Dr. Bradley Solomon, is a colleague of mine at UG. Yesterday morning I asked him how a top class engineer could not find a place at GWI. What I heard from Dr. Solomon shows the pathological level of incompetence that has enveloped this country. Dr. Solomon seems to have agreed with me that someone like Mr. Dewar is needed at GWI but asserted that it was a decision of Dewar himself to leave.

    The Chairman of GWI told me that he knows absolutely that Mr. Dewar chose not to renew his contract. I kept pressing the point to the chairman that in unambiguous terms, Mr. Dewar informed me that GWI chose not to renew his contract. It would appear that the decision to terminate Dewar’s relationship with GWI was made by CEO, Karan Singh

    I contacted Karan Singh. He answered in the affirmative that GWI decided to let Dewar go. May I remind readers that Dr. Solomon was definitive that as chairman he knows from the documents that came in front of him that Dewar decided he wanted to leave.

    Mr. Singh contradicted Dr. Solomon by explaining to me that GWI went through a restructuring and based on that process they didn’t have any room for Dewar at GWI. He made it quite clear to me that Dewar’s job had become redundant with the reorganization within GWI. I described to Mr. Singh that the international lending agencies have classified Guyana as being in a group of the eleven poorest countries in the entire world. I further stated that Guyana has a pathetic human resource base. Against these brutal facts, I put the question to Mr. Singh if Guyana can have a water engineer with forty years experience being unemployed. Yes,he is a blackman
    Mr. Singh chose his reply carefully. He refused to answer that question. His choice of words was that in restructuring there was no place for Mr. Dewar and even if Mr. Dewar had a doctorate in water engineering, the decision to relieve him would have been the same. After repeating the question to Mr. Singh about a poor country like Guyana choosing to have qualified engineers walking the road, he again declined a comment. So I moved on to other topics at GWI. Again, it showed the lack of knowledge of what is taking place at GWI.

    I should point out to readers that I became a little annoyed with Dr. Solomon when I asked him to react to the question of more than thirty persons in the management sector of GWI that have either left or were fired. Dr. Solomon told me that since I am the one doing the research then I should seek to find out what is going on at GWI. I was somewhat taken back by such a naïve response. I fired back by arguing that since he is the chairman of GWI then he is part of my research material and he should answer my questions. As it turned out, Mr. Solomon agreed to speak to me but was not helpful, confining his knowledge to only four cases of dismissals by Mr. Singh that he knows about. He suggested that those dismissed managers should write the boards. I told him, Mr. Dennis Yearwood, with 25 years service, and a top class public servant was fired even though Board member, Komal Chand of GAWU did not agree and the matter in fact came up in front of the Board.

    My research showed that more than 30 middle and high level managers have either left GWI voluntarily, or were fired, since Mr. Singh resumed the CEO post. Mr. John Seeram, the UG Finance Director and former Board member under Minister Shaik Baksh has informed me that the figure is much higher than that. He was of the opinion that something has gone badly wrong at GWI since Mr. Singh took over and there should be an urgent investigation into the role of Mr. Singh.

    I cited that figure to Dr. Solomon. He could not confirm it but opined that the exodus was not confined to GWI but other places in Guyana. I agreed with that perception but I did alert Dr. Solomon to the fact that the number of thirty had occurred with the return of Mr. Singh and there was no parallel elsewhere in Guyana where in one firm there is such a rush to leave or persons were dismissed over just a period of two months.
    I asked Mr. Singh to comment on the four dismissals cited by Dr. Solomon. He was bold enough to say that Dr. Solomon got it wrong in that there were more than four managers he dismissed. I interjected and said; “That you dismissed?” He paused then calmly replied; “I withdraw my statement; they were dismissed by GWI.”

    Mr. Singh went on to tell me that he stands by all the notices of termination; he believes he acted properly and there were just causes for the termination letters. I then showed Mr. Singh that of the 30 persons that I know over 98% came from a particular group. His response was that he fires employees who should be fired and no other factor comes into consideration and he does not take other factors in the equation. Mr. Singh then accused me of writing wrong things about him and that I have refused to criticize the foreign firm that was in charge of GWI. He then abruptly brought the interview to an end.

    I sought a comment from Board member, Komal Chand, the only leader of a trade union that is an executive member of the ruling party of a government and a parliamentarian of the ruling party in the entire Caricom region. As I wrote above, Mr. Chand is a board member of GWI (remember my theory of incestuous politics of the PPP?). I solicited a response from him on Mr. Dennis Yearwood and the style of Mr. Karan Singh at GWI. Mr. Chand let me know that he will not give me a comment on anything concerning GWI and that was the end of the interview. I can’t say I came out good yesterday as a media operative. But you lose some; you win some.

    Do you know that Laurie Bancroft was dismissed from Customs and Excise after Jagan came to power in 1992? No reason was given and Dr. Jagan refused to listen to him. Bancroft is the only Guyanese with a Masters degree in Customs operations. Where Guyana is going to end up is so easy to predict.


  42. Freddie Kisson is the one indo guyanese journalist who I am willing to listen to.

    To my mind he calls a spade a spade much to the chagrin of Basdeo Jagdeo and his racist party operatives.

    He writes in the Kaeitur News.

    What I gather from that article is that Mr Kissoon seem to be saying that the new indo CEO a Mr Singh seems to be firing all the top and middle managers who are of africn descent,even though they have valuable skills which Guyana needs.


  43. Guess which group he is talkiing about. I selected the mildest of a group of comments because there is a limit too what my stomach will accomodate.

    These sentiments litter the caribbean discourse, but when we react to them and give views founded on them, the shield of protection is unravelled by extrapolating the comments across the entire group so as to have two bites of the cherry. To be able to accuse blacks of racism, while wallowing in the inverse proportionate and ego fulfilling sanctum of anti black bigotry.

    Guys do not be racist, but do not allow anyone to place you on guilt trip by defining your exposure of prejudice as racism. These are generally closet bigots who crave to have their cakes and eat it too.

    Instead of a Mash band and super fete, it will be more to Guyana’s interest to go to work and stop whining and complaining.

    It is interesting than one particular race the world over keeps hollering “racism” and “discrimination” and “marginalisation”, and at the same time have the most expensive clothes and vehicles even while they are not PROVIDED jobs – and therefore have no income.

    Forget the mash band and the super fete. GO TO WORK.


  44. The portion begining with “Instead of a Mash Band” is an excerpt from a comment on blacks in Guyana.


  45. Here is a dozy

    Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

    Why all people of all races deemed “racist” when they object to the degradation of their communities by blacks? How is it that Blacks are the only non-racists on earth?

    There are not many men who will have sex or marry a black female. Perhaps Green or Manning will like to explain to the world the intent of the mixed-race communities or “douglarisation”

    It is clear to me that the intended victims are women of all races who are supposed to have offsprings by blacks. Isn’t this “cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment”?.


  46. These are not white Aryans making these remarks. These are the sentiments of some Caribbean Indians. For people to come to this DB and open their stink mouth and talk about racism is an example of the silly shyte that passes for balance in this world. Many of them are frequent visitors to the sites where these expressions are numerous, and they never pen a line of protest or indignation.

    I am gone now. I refuse to sully myself by being proximate to bigots who define anti Indian racism as exposure of the prejudice of some Indians. I thought an anti indian racist was someone who hated Indians. It seem to have morphed into a case of those who some Indians hate, or who expose examples of this hate. What a bunch unadulterated stiffed necked bigots.


  47. Adrian Hinds on BFP some time ago also mentioned a guyanese website which is totally racist in their remarks against persons of African descent.

    Can’t remmeber the name of the site right now.


  48. Where ever blacks in majority Indians will be hardly safe Viz. Uganda, Kenya, Nigeria etc…

    If it vice versa( Indians in majority) Blacks can be rest assured being safe and wealthy.
    Viz.. Mauritius, India with multi religions.

    The truth is plain and always harsh, sadly!!!

    I welcome all Barbadians particularly racist brothers to visit India to enjoy the peace and tranquility with Ayurveda and Yoga which works for you guys, making you destressed and free from narrow mindedness.


  49. Can Indians And Blacks Co-exist In Barbados?

    This is an easy question. All it takes is another question.

    Has Indian and Blacks ever co-existed (if the percentage of each group are relatively equal) in any country where both are the majority?

    If you can name a country where this has occurred, then the answer is YES.

    If you can’t name a country where both co-existed happily together under the same conditions then the answer is NO.

    I cannot think of such a country so my answer is NO.

    I am not saying it is impossible, but until it happens I will have to stay with this answer.


  50. I live in the UK and there is tension between Asians and Blacks here. Not long ago there were Asian Vs Black riots/clashes in Birmingham

    If their numbers are anywhere near equal there will be problems.

    Not that this is the correct way foward, it just seems that this is the way it is.

    The Barbados situation is worrying, if the Indian numbers grow enough there will be problems.

    Dreamers can dream and hopers can hope this doesn’t happen. The reality is that history
    proves it most likely.

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