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Click on image to hear BBC report on Guyana massacre

Analysts Fear Racial Tension Could Spark Further Violence

Calm was reported on Tuesday, in areas of Guyana affected by tensions fueled by the murders of 11 people by a suspected criminal gang last weekend. On Monday, police fired teargas and pellets to disperse hundreds of protesters blocking roads along the country’s east coast. Some groups and analysts, including the human rights association, have expressed concern that tension between Guyana’s ethnic communities could boil over into further violence.

Source: BBC Report

It is prophetic that BU published the article entitled Can Barbados Avoid Escalating Crime & Violence In Neighbouring Trinidad & Guyana? on the 26 January 2008. Our article coincided with the massacre of 11 persons in rural Guyana which is reported to have escalated ethic tensions there. This was a tragic incident and we extend our sympathy to the affected families.

As Barbadians, the unfortunate incident serves to highlight the present danger of an open door immigration policy. We have written ad nauseam on the subject, specifically the impact of Indo-Guyanese on a dominantly Negro nation like Barbados – do a search of our archives using key word ‘Immigration’. It is instructive that Guyana is a country which is split almost down the middle by race, i.e. Indian and Black. It is a country where although the Blacks have enjoyed political power, the Indians have been the economic force in the country. There has been irrefutable evidence manifested through the years of the racial tensions in Guyana. It is a society which continues to struggle to find a basis for sustained harmony between the races. Anyone who challenges this assertion we liken to the proverbial ostrich.

We agree with one commenter who forwarded the view that self-preservation is a natural instinct of animals, the uncivilized kind and it is one which human can do well to learn. We have repeatedly stated that our immigration policy needs to become more efficient. Immigrant labour should be regulated to match demand and the process should be copiously documented. We are amused by the politicians, theoreticians and intellectuals who continue to spout positions based on text book positions. In the Caribbean, we have two living examples of multi-ethnic societies which continue to struggle to find the formula to support coexistence. Why should Barbados experiment with the idea of a growing multi-ethnic society and ignore the perennial racial tensions in Guyana and Trinidad?

We again wish to send out a word of caution to those responsible in our new government to closely examine the current open door policy supported by the past government. It has gotten so bad that illegal immigrants don’t even bother to move around Barbados clandestinely. Ordinary Barbadians can with ease direct the authorities to areas in Barbados where illegal Guyanese can be found in bushels. We have nothing against Guyanese, Indian or Black i.e. in theory. In practice, however, we think that there is sufficient evidence to be concerned. The vast number of Guyanese immigrants are of the unskilled variety and we strongly believe that with a world recession forecasted and the new DLP government’s commitment to slowing capital projects roll-out, excess labour in the construction sector is bound to occur.

Will anyone hear our cry?


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246 responses to “Can Indians And Blacks Co-exist In Barbados?”


  1. Nat, sister baby says she is from Guyanese extract, unless you have proof to the contrary who are you to cast your blanket lebel on her, and that we might believe you?


  2. We are struggling to understand why BU is being labeled as racist?

    We have asked that our immigration laws and policies be improved/strengthened.

    We have asked Barbadians to to study how immigration will impact our small country.

    We have asked most importantly to learn from Trinidad and Guyana which continue to struggle with Indo/Black tension.

    We stand by our position.


  3. Adrian, I am not bothering with Nat. He can’t raise my pressure, especially since he lived in East Africa, because any East African would came here and write exactly what I wrote above. Prof. Ali Mazuri held the Rodney Chair at UG in the 90’s and he too said what I have said, so there. Nat, do you think I as a black woman with all my curry cooking and pigeon Hindi can move to Mumbai and everything would be fine. I think not. I probably could not get a ricksha wallah to pick me, muchless find a job Well as for the hatred of Guyanese, well Nat don’t even worry about that for all I have to do is step off the jet at BGI Airport wearing my sari, but carrying my belna, in case of any trouble, in tow with some nice Guyanese curry and roti, and some mit tai for dessert and all the Adrians will be my friend. So don’t worry, we Guyanese accustomed to them. I have experienced racism from white people in the land of BET and Oprah, but my dear I just wrtie if off as they are jealous of me, so they behave like that. So don’t worry we just talking, Well I have to run my favourite show is now on, Hell Date on BET Bye


  4. But I hope you all seeing the madness that is Guyana, because if Guyana was such a divided country do you think that I could have learned to cook Indian food, speak pigeon Hindi, wrap a sari, do Rakki, celebrate Diwali, and the Indians doing Obeah and going to Djukaland in Suriname to do umbanda and how would I have known that the meat in a Chinese restaurants in Guyana are seasoned with Lea and Perrins Worchestershire sauce and at the end of cooking masked with a tince of soy to give it a a sort of Chinese flavour. Anyway, Adrian in old age, I tend accept all behaviours. I do, I say oh well, so be it.


  5. Nat, I would be the first to garland you if you were to come to Guyana. CARIFESTA coming up in August and I will be in Guyana Stadium jumping up with my fellow toyi toyi Guyanese, skarling away in the warmth of our Guyana. And then in September is a GUYAFESTA- Festival Africiane de la Guyane


  6. According to David “We are struggling to understand why BU is being labeled racist?”

    Let me offer you a few quotes from contributors to this blog, which if they were said in Britain by white people about black people, I for one would be marching in the streets and there would be a serious public discussion as to whether the blog should be closed down on grounds of incitement to racial hatred, which is a serious offence in the UK and elsewhere.

    “Yes, going to school with them is one thing, but wait until you have to go to them to get a job and they give the job to the own kind so they could pay low wages and overwork and maltreat them”
    Sister baby

    “So far, I’ve only read the main headline and the answer is, ‘yes, they can’!! With the Indians on top and the blacks underneath them, as usual – AND, I IN FUH DAH ONE BIT!!!!”
    Bimbro

    “But these racist Indo-Guyanese blood suckers are a different story.”
    Adrian Hinds

    Of course, it is only three people and the same three people who also express other socially objectionable views so we should be cautious about labeling the whole blog, but I have to say I have been disappointed that of all the issues we can address we have had two cracks at the same issue in a few days.

    Like all racism, this is intended to distract people from the real and difficult issues. Our socio-economic problems are not caused by a few Guyanese Indians immigrants. Are Guyanese Indians contributing to one-parent families in Barbados? Are Guyanese Indians responsible for boys on the block? Are Guyanese Indians making us an uncompetitive economy? Are Guyanese Indians responsible for low-levels of productivity and service?


  7. RH you should not confuse BU’s positions with commenters.


  8. Racist black dog!


  9. Check this article out by Prof Kean Gibson, UWI in Cave Hill, She has written two books on Indian racism against Afro Guyanese in Guyana:

    This was copied from The Caribbean Impact – Jan 2008

    Racism and the degeneration of Guyana
    PART I
    By Dr. KEAN GIBSON

    I am on a one-year sabbatical from my job at The University of the West Indies, Barbados so most of my time is spent in Guyana which is my research area. I have done research on the Creole language, African-Guyanese culture (Comfa and Kwe-Kwe), but more recently I have been interested in the racism in the society and the political, social and economic consequences of a racial power structure. In the past I would spend my summer vacations and have occasional short visits to the country.

    Whenever I return to Barbados it takes me a couple of days to recover from the trauma of the society. Now that I am in Guyana on a more or less continuous basis, I feel that I am living in a pressure cooker, and like many Guyanese, I just want some relief from the tensions in society. The problem in the country is inequality and the consequences of it with respect to differential distribution, rights and duties (which is what racism is about).

    I was particularly concerned with a report in the Stabroek News (“Five ERC reports presented to Parliament,” October 19, 2007) where it was stated that studies conducted by the Ethnic Relations Commission (ERC) show that discrimination against African-Guyanese was a ‘perception’:

    “The Ethnic Relations Commission (ERC) says studies on five important areas of concern in the country found no real evidence of discrimination but a perception that certain ethnic groups are discriminated against.”

    A subsequent notice appeared in Stabroek News (October 28, 2007) where the ERC was inviting African-Guyanese to a forum to discuss their “perceived needs.” The use of the term “perception” implies that nothing needs to be done since discrimination is just a figment of the imagination of African-Guyanese. The discrimination must be a perception because no laws are broken. In South Africa during the apartheid era, and in the Southern United States in the pre-Martin Luther King, Jr. era, laws were passed prohibiting people from living or sitting in certain areas; and if these laws were broken, punishment could then be inflicted. Also, it is in the laws of Guyana that Guyanese cannot own lands in Amerindian areas, but Amerindians can own lands in other areas. So if members of other ethnic groups seek to purchase lands in Amerindian designated areas the discrimination would be very clear since a law would be broken.

    There are no such laws with respect to Africans, East Indians and other ethnic groups in the society. Since no laws can be said to be broken with respect to jobs, land distribution and development opportunities in Guyana, the implication is that all is well in the society for racism is nothing more than a perception.

    But all is not well. If the word “discrimination” is a poor choice for the experiences of African-Guyanese since racism is not legal in Guyana, then a more apt word is “victimization” where a group of people are singled out for cruel and unjust treatment. There is an informal system (racism is a formal or informal power structure) of privileges and rights operating in the society. When East Indians are accused of racism, they are quick to point out that they lived and worked among Africans and have or had close African friends

    . So there is nothing that one can point at to say they are racists – so the racism in nothing more than a perception. But Africans are victims of what is in the hearts of East Indians, and as I have pointed out in The Cycle of Racial Oppression (2003) and Sacred Duty: Hinduism and violence in Guyana (2005), what is written in the Hindu sacred texts. The violent reactions by some East Indians to Cycle (there has been silence on Sacred Duty since I really got to the core of the issue in that book), is that I had the audacity to discuss the formal system of racism that informs their hearts. The racism, and thus inequality, that is promoted in the Hindu sacred texts is a valuable resource which bestows benefits, rights and duties to a group of people and thus must be maintained at all costs and by any means necessary.

    One area in which Africans are victimized is in development allocations and thus depriving Africans of the means of earning a living and driving them into poverty thereby injuring their life prospects. If you cannot work, you cannot live. Since the PPP came to power in 1992 a myth was formulated that Africans do not repay loans. That myth became the justification for banks denying loans to Africans, but loans are readily made available to East Indians. The result is that Africans do not apply to banks for loans, and this is then the reason for the ERC in their report concluding that there is no discrimination against Africans in receiving bank loans since Africans do not apply.

    The African Cultural Development Association (ACDA) has reported that it applied to the European Union (EU) for funds for a Drum Museum and other social needs. The money was approved by the EU but the disbursement has been stymied by the government and so ACDA has not received the money. There is another instance in which the EU gave money to a Co-op comprising of Africans to assist in developing their farming methods. No sooner was the grant made that an East Indian wrote the EU protesting about the grant and at the same time informing the Minister of Agriculture of his actions. This was done without informing the Co-op members, and only the generosity of the EU facilitated the information reaching the members of the Co-op. Then too, there has been the systematic killing of young African men. There has been no systematic killings of the other ethnic groups. Whether it is by starvation or systematic murder, the PPP has been portraying a sustained and purposeful attempt to destroy Africans. This is genocide.

    Guyanese frequently tell me that they are “confused.” The confusion is not surprising for there is evidence of double standards and “double talk.” The President tells the nation that acting positions are not good in that persons needed to be confirmed in their positions to give them security of tenure and to give them the confidence to shield them from the Executive, but he creates acting positions. There are several acting positions in important arms of the state. There is an Acting Police Commissioner, Acting Judges, Acting DPP, Acting Auditor General, Acting Chief Justice and Acting Chancellor. We see images in the newspapers and on television of young men who have been tortured, but the state tells us that torture is not a part of its modus operandi and the wounds may be self-inflicted.

    We see that one set of laws and behaviors that apply to a particular group, do not apply to another. Young African men and the poor in the society are summarily executed while surrendering, or killed without firing at the police, or are jailed for committing violent crimes, or committing a robbery. But the white collar crimes that are primarily connected to the narcotics trade, money laundering, trafficking in persons and weapons, and corruption are operations that are above the law, and the culprits are very often not prosecuted. In fact, in a series of articles in Stabroek News (beginning on September 16, 2007), Clive Y. Thomas explains how the state has been reconstituted to become a criminal enterprise.

    Despite their criminality, he explains, the state expresses concerns about law and order in the society. However, these are concerns which apply to the ordinary citizens and not to the cabal who do not want their operations stymied. For example, the Minister of Human Services proclaimed a war on sexual violence, but no actions were taken when a Senior Minister in her government allegedly raped a young woman. Ordinary citizens are jailed for assault, but the President took no action against his Minister of Local government who assaulted a young man with a gun, knocked him down with his vehicle and then fired shots in the air. Young African men are criminalized and murdered for resisting their oppression; but as Clive Y. Thomas pointed out (“Above and beyond the law: The ruling elite in the criminal state,” = Stabroek News, September 16, 2007), the state is the same criminal gang which organizes the infamous “phantom force.” The people have all right to be confused by this double standard and double talk – it is a deliberate confusion aimed at making the people think that a moderate position will be taken, but it never happens. It is a confusion which also means that the agenda is to subordinate a group of people.

    A major confusion at the moment concerns the Judiciary where the President is attempting to govern the country in contradicting the rules of the Constitution. Due to the President’s intransigence in nominating no one other than Justice Carl Singh for the post of Chancellor, the Constitutional requirement that there be agreement between the President and the Leader of the Opposition has been unfruitful. The President blamed the Constitution for the impasse and went so far as to assert:

    “It was not the intention of the constitution reform commission for anything like this to happen and so we will have to find ways to set a precedent or make the necessary change to deal with this.”

    There is nothing wrong with the Constitution. The framers of the Constitution knew that Guyana has a racial problem and sought to heal the divisions by making provisions for consensual decisions. The “new precedent” that the President has decided on is to step outside of the Constitution and create the posts of Acting Chief Justice and Acting Chancellor. There are no such posts in the Constitution. The problem began in 2005 with the failure of an agreement between the President and the Leader of the Opposition on who should be the new Chancellor. The President named Justice Carl Singh who is/was the Chief Justice as an Acting Chancellor. In November 2007, Justice Ramlall ruled that one person cannot hold two posts at the same time. The Constitution has set up two courts and a head of each. There is no provision for one person to hold both positions, or for one person to act for another. The government has now decided to deflect the order in another way by creating two acting appointments which are outside of the Constitution. The disobeying of the Supreme Law has been going on for some time which indicates that the President would like to rule by fiat.
    Carl Singh with President Jagdeo
    What the government has never told the people is whether Justice Carl Singh was in receipt of two salaries – one for Chief Justice and another for Acting Chancellor. It is also known that he advises the government which means he has to be paid. So he is like Popeye – bowling and batting. The obtaining of several salaries is not only an aspect of the white collar crime that is destroying the country, but it reinforces the point made by Clive Y. Thomas (“Above and beyond the law: The ruling elite in the criminal state,” Stabroek News, September 16, 2007) that several persons in the cabal operate in several categories simultaneously.

    In Part 11, I will look at the response of the people to the violence that is being inflicted on them by the state


  10. I came here and gave my Guyanese experince and it was done innocently. If it had ever crossed my mind that I was writing things to incite riots againsts certain people then I would not have done my writings. But what I wrote is my Guyanese experience. So because of how my writings have been taken out of context I feel that I must apologise to everyone. For me the above is my Guyanese being, self, whatever, but to outsiders those are things that can incite hate and so on. I am not racist, I am not, but I am always perceived that way because of my Guyanese self. The late Dr. Cheddi Jagan was my hero, not Burnham, Hoyte, D’Aguiar, Barrow, Sangster, Bustamnate or Williams. Anyway, I am deeply sorry and I will keep my personals to myself, because the last thing I want is people gettung killed or denied opportunity to live in the country of their choice and so on.


  11. Sister Babe, write whatever you want to write!!

    I’m not familiar with the things you’ve recounted and have found them informative and enlightening!! If anybody does n’t like it, just tell them what to do with themselves!!

    Fortunately, Bim is still a free-country!!!!


  12. Robert Hooke; I usually do not respond to anything much coming out of Britain, but i must call you on the big lie of any group of native born Brits coming together to protest anything in the streets. The only gathering in the streets that Brits will happily engage in is at the various watering holes that dot the streets of London, to get a good pint. I know i have to visit Londonistan so often becuase good help is hard to find there.

    ————Brits are too drunk too————-

    contain the growing threat of home grown muslim radicalism, and banning your own St.Georges flag in a failed attempt at appeasment will not get you the job of instructing anyone one immigration..

    Multiculturalism is a failed policy in Jolly Old Hingland again you can talk the talk but when inform person ask for the best practices to validate the talk very little will be forth coming.

    …Word reaching me is that your parliament just debated a bill that is intended to ban “elephants” as domestic pets. No body should take your country serously on past glory or at face value, i certainly will not.

    I stand by my words and can prove that Guyanese “flight” has been constant and that in the Barbados context they are blood suckers of the economy. It is record in succesive IMF consultation with Barbadian authorities dating back to 2001 that the influx of cheap labour to Barbados has led to a downward moderation of wages in Barbados. Do i need to tell you of the kind of dislocation that can occur to societies when families cannot pay their bills?

    You will not set the measuring stick for me and that i must use to guage the usefullness or the uselessness of Indo-Guyanese in Barbados. They may not be contributing to one family households in Barbados but their presense here may causing such an occurance back home, in fact we have a rise in murders amongst the guyanese community in Barbados committed by other guyanese.


  13. Sister Baby, the world has long stop listening too and following the dictates of the Brits. When Mr. Hooke comes to this forum he will be seen by me and others as any other commentator, certainly not as some overlord, or master of information or of best practices. He will be required to issue an acceptable definition of the word racism or racist, and then fit our comments to that definition. He will not be given a pass on this. If he is able to do this to my satisfaction then i will accept and apologize, and reword my comments to still illustrate my belief that the unslaught of migrant Indo-Guyanese to Barbados has had a negative economic and social impact to Barbados and Barbadian labourers, and that further economic impact will be realize if the economy of Barbados is affected by the goings on in the world economy. Any tightening of the economy usually affects those at the bottom the first, and this is where the illegal’s are, this is where they work without proper health coverage, proper schooling, and when those jobs go away what will these people be left to do?


  14. Hooke, you’re FOs**t!! That’s why the UK is fast approaching what Adrian termed, ‘A Failed State’, because of excessively, ‘politically-correct’ **icks like you!!!

    If you’re so in favour of censoring comment, what on earth are you doing attending these blogs!! Why don’t you go and live in China or Russia and see how much freedom you’d enjoy, then!!!!

    We’re just emerging from a period in Bim’s history when numerous ills have been concealed by the regime of secrecy and lack of openness and you’re wanting more of the same!!

    Man, I think u know what u can do with yourself, as far as I’m concerned!!

    ******************************

    Robert Hooke; I usually do not respond to anything much coming out of Britain, but i must call you on the big lie of any group of native born Brits coming together to protest anything in the streets. The only gathering in the streets that Brits will happily engage in is at the various watering holes that dot the streets of London, to get a good pint.

    ***********************************

    Adrian, I neither know whether to agree or disagree with u on that point, as I don’t go to pubs (watering-holes), however, in my view the Brit. west indian community is a failed one who I could n’t see getting excited about anything, except, perhaps, the Notting Hill Carnival, which is why, if I could, I’d probably leave here tomorrow!!

    Adrian, to a large extent I agree with the unflattering view which you have of the UK, however, you said:

    “Sister Baby, the world has long stop listening too and following the dictates of the Brits”.

    Would it then surprise you that I see striking resemblances between some of the features of Britain & Bim, to wit:

    Huge immigration, a rise in crime, a shortage of housing, a lowering of wage rates, etc!

    I always maintained that Arthur was copying Blair’s policies virtually, to the letter!! I had visions of Arthur studying The Times each day to see what Blair’s latest policies were and implementing them almost to the letter, plus of course, as you know, Blair used to holiday in Bim, and the two of them were very, close!!!

    So, Brit. may have been more influencial on Bim than you realised!!!!


  15. ha ha ha ha Good point Bimbro. Now i have heard others say that sometimes Barbadians seem to think that Barbados is the world as they often say if not believe that God is a Bajan. 😀 But we all know that Barbados is not the world, and even if our government of the day pursues policies that don’t find favour with Barbadians then it cannot be said that Barbadians are listening to the Brits. But i take your point, it was well made.


  16. Thanks, Adrian!


  17. I have lived in Britain and the US. But I have been back in Barbados for a while. I gather Bimbro and Hinds do not live in Barbados today. Perhaps that is why they have not and connot respond to the following point:

    Like all racism, this is intended to distract people from the real and difficult issues. Our socio-economic problems are not caused by a few Guyanese Indians immigrants. Are Guyanese Indians contributing to one-parent families in Barbados? Are Guyanese Indians responsible for boys on the block? Are Guyanese Indians making us an uncompetitive economy? Are Guyanese Indians responsible for low-levels of productivity and service?


  18. Dear Adrian Hinds,

    The economic experts are not with you on the economic costs of immigration. (There are social consequences, but let us focus on the economics point for the moment.)

    The conventional wisdom in economics is that one thing that makes the US a dynamic economy, is the high level of immigration. Immigration lowers the cost of living and improves competitiveness.

    The slowdown of immigration to Silican Valley especially from (mainly Indian) graduates, after 9/11, is supposed to have hurt growth.

    Although a country is an economic winner as a whole from immigration, there are some losers, namely those whose productivity is lower than the immigrants – often unskilled poorly motivated workers. The immigrants dont always have a happy lot either.

    The solution to this is to raise productivity of local workers through better education and training and to make training easier through financial help, it is not to hold back the whole economy because of the lack of competitiveness of the unskilled, and low productivity part of the labour market.

    Which path is the one to economic success? To give moderated access to the country workers who will work harder for less and train our displaced workers to do more valued added work, or to deny access to immigrants and remain a high cost, low productivity economy?

    We know which is best. But there is an economic and, clearly a social, capacity limit to the pace of immigration. Given the benefits the economists disposition is how do we manage to raise that limit, not lower it. One measure of whether we are at that limit is the level of unemployment. Low levels of unemployment suggest we are not at the limit, rising levels would suggest we are approaching it. There are other measures of the limit which are more social in character and crime may be one. My understanding is that last year unemployment and crime levels were historically low.


  19. Michael Howard,Economics Professor at UWI today wrote an open letter to PM Thompson calling for an end to illegal immigration. He intimated illegal immigration bodes ill for Barbados’ socio-economic health. Who are the illegal immigrants in his reference?


  20. Robert Hooke // January 31, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    I have lived in Britain and the US. But I have been back in Barbados for a while. I gather Bimbro and Hinds do not live in Barbados today. Perhaps that is why they have not and connot respond to the following point:

    Like all racism, this is intended to distract people from the real and difficult issues. Our socio-economic problems are not caused by a few Guyanese Indians immigrants. Are Guyanese Indians contributing to one-parent families in Barbados? Are Guyanese Indians responsible for boys on the block? Are Guyanese Indians making us an uncompetitive economy? Are Guyanese Indians responsible for low-levels of productivity and service?

    ****************************

    What’s the relevance of this????? Are germs responsible for diseases???? So, lets wait until we get the diseases before saying germs are n’t good for you!!!!

    WTF, r u talking about, Sir?!!!!

    As you’ve indicated, we’ve enough of our own germs, already!!!! We don’t need any more germs, or diseases!!


  21. The slowdown of immigration to Silican Valley especially from (mainly Indian) graduates, after 9/11, is supposed to have hurt growth.

    ****************************

    Ok, G. So, why don’t we just allow unlimited immigration into Bim!!! That would make u happy, would n’t it!!!! p*ick!!!!


  22. My research in Barbados shows the following. I will focus on the Indians in Barbados as this is the focus of this thread:

    1. Indians, especially those from India, are quietly buying up many properties Barbados especially in the downtown area. They are also first in line when properties are being auctioned off at low prices. Check it for yourself!

    2. Swan Street and many of the small shops selling basic foodstuff are now in Indian hands. Barbadians have followed the Afro-Guyanese in being averse to investing in self sustaining commerce. They prefer to buy BMW taxis and other depreciating investments.

    3. The Muslim traders who are also of Indian descent come from Pakistan, India and other countries. They keep to themselves while they amass fortunes selling trinkets and knock-off to the mostly Afro-Carbadians.

    4. Afro-Guyanese who are in Barbados legally intend to stay as they do not like the Indian dominated society of Barbados. The illegal ones hope t stay as long as possible and many hope to return to Guyana if things change there economically. Many of the Indo Guyanese are here to make money and send back home. Many have told me that they are building bank accounts to build their homes there. Others have seen Barbados and like it so they will stay and even marry people here in order to stay legally.

    5. It is my rough estimate that there are at least 10,000 Guyanese living in Barbados without legal status so any effort to change or regularize the immigration enforcement will be a big job. I should also say that there are at least that number from other countries, including Britain, who live here without status and overstay their alloted time.

    Some Barbadian people are upset because of the percived economic competition in some jobs, commerce and plain envy that some people sem to be making so much money … and they are not even Bajans.

    The economic opportunities will always be there as the CSME encourages investment from the region so I do not see how they will stop that. The white and other local business people are already concerned by the looming competition which is only now beginning.

    As I said in another post on BU, Guyanese have to build Guyana. There is potential oil there in the billions of barrels. They also have potential hydro projects that could supply northern Brazil and even Barbados with electricity. The main problem with Guyana is that they are exporting their people and their economic/social problems to other countries – just as Mexico does to the USA. Guyana has to look inward and build its economy and attract others to Guyana to build it.

    As for Barbados… well… who knows… there are so many issues that they have to solve for themselves. We live in a changing world, but that does not say we cannot try to control the RATE of change to ensure social stability and economic viability and sustainability.

    Analyst


  23. Analyst, thank you for that last post. I have n’t read it all but I have enough to see that Bim is finished thanks to the idiocy of our last government, for allowing all those Indians into the place and to buy-up Bim!!

    ‘Sir’, said, during the election something about not wanting the DLP to regain power for a very, long time. For committing such a crime, the BLP should be kept out of power, indefinitely!!!!

    We were obviously, mistaken to trust Bim in their hands!!!!

    The DLP, had better reverse the policy, and immediately, otherwise, BIM WILL BE LOST TO US, NATIVE BARBADIANS!!!!


  24. From the Nations news
    Fugitive says he killed villagers
    Published on: 1/30/08.

    GEORGETOWN – A man purporting to be Rondell “Fineman” Rawlins, Guyana’s most wanted fugitive, has admitted responsibility for Saturday’s massacre in which 11 people – including five children – from Lusignan village were slaughtered in a pre-dawn raid.

    The man also threatened to create history if his “wife” was not returned alive.

    Kidnapped

    “Rawlins” also claimed he had checked all the hospitals, airport and even in Suriname and Barbados, so he is convinced that his “wife” had been kidnapped.

    He said that she could not be in Suriname and Barbados, where he has “people,” and someone not call him.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I wonder has anyone – no let me ask the correct question? Has the law enforcement offices and officers in Barbados taken special note of this link. This is as serious as a heart attack, what is his link with Barbados, drugs guns prostitution, human trafficking. One man is so powerful that he holds a whole country to ransom. What would have happened if she was found in Barbados. Would he have caused mayhem in Barbados as well.

    Now does anyone see why it is pertinent that all illegal Guyanese be rounded up and deported forthwith from this island.

    The laws in terms of citizenship must be altered, since a lot of Guyanese women are getting pregnant for foolish Bajan men only to stay here, foolish Bajan men who can’t keep their penis in their pants, their money in their pocket, or their brains in their head. Know that the guyanese women out for one thing and the men joining in the scam them as well, they

    Norman Farria should really be deported and exiled, other countries in the caribbean working for a common good trying to export their produce.

    What is it that Guyana is exporting? one really must ask

    Many posters on this and other blogs have voiced their concerns about the influx of guyanese – period – and it seems that the sentiments have been ignored


  25. Hello Warrior:
    For your info – Honorary Consul for Barbados. Mr. Norman Faria is a born Barbadian. I think his father may be Guyanese. Where will you “deport” him to??? Oh yes ! Guyana??

    You seem rather concerned about what Guyana exports. Well it exports some goods like gold, diamonds, rice and agricultural products… some of it to Barbados.

    However another lucrative export is in the transshipment of cocaine, the byproduct of another agricultural product from Columbia.

    Most of all it exports PEOPLE to all over the world. Barbados and Trinidad and Antigua have had the most immigration in this region. However Canada and the USA and the UK has also been attractive, but getting harder to penetrate due to more stringent immigration rules. But the “backtrack” (smuggling of people using false passports) is a growth industry in Guyana. so they can get you in if you pay.

    A man was caught with 143 passports and stamps for different countries last year – Result? No charges – no law on the books for that … can you believe it. last week they found a barrel of counterfeit notes at the Customs unclaimed after a year. It was now half full as the Customs insiders helped themselves. Perfect notes imported from the UK. Kaieteur News had a picture on their front page last week.

    People export is therefore Guyana’s most lucrative export. It also takes pressure off the government to find meaningful employment for people or open the country to investment… not just talk about it but really make it happen. There are vested interests in Guyana who like it the way it is as they do not want competition as they rape the country’s natural resources… check how they are shipping raw logs to India and China and not paying any duties or taxes… payoffs to forestry people… companies fined… people dismissed… but that is peanuts… the country is being raped.

    The Brazilians are coming in and ripping up the rivers dredging for diamonds and using lots of mercury in gold production and polluting the streams and fish… screwing up the health of the Amerindians – the original inhabitants of Guyana. Brazilians are basically overrunning Guyana right now and there is really no immigration controls on them. They have money to pay off everyone.

    Do not worry though the government is saying… everybody get paid off… sounds familiar?

    Then there are the remittances from all over the world coming in to support families and make life easier for everyone… Estimated at about 20% of GDP, remittances are necessary to keep Guyana afloat and help with its development. Over US$400 million a year is big money for Guyana.

    President Jagdeo should be telling people to stay home and build Guyana. Maybe ghe does tell them that but it is NOT a mantra I hear from his party – the PPP… The party is an elected dictatorship with just 55% of the votes in the 2006 elections… they behave like they have 90% of the votes… getting rich and building while they build their other homes in Florida and New York in Queens.

    Barbados is close to Guyana… the air fares are reasonable and they can come here for a holiday and never return… Maybe one day things will change in Guyana and Barbadians can come and enjoy their hospitality…. without fear.. Also that Barbadians will see Guyana as an asset rather than a liability. I think we all hope that day will be soon.

    Analyst

  26. passing through south Avatar
    passing through south

    Mr Analyst u are in correct in some of your statements.first alot of the muslim traders u see around barbados are born in barbados and they are second generation barbadians.Yes a few are from india or pakistan but majority are also born locally,but just because their appearance is still of that of an indian it is automatic that they too are born in india and pakistan.Alot of the muslim indians u see with stores and selling in the country side are educated in local schools also and they have chosen not to spend their money on alot of the small things in life and thus save their money and use it in investment,is something wrong with that? Also when u talk of the ones who are bidding at the auctions, have u ever asked anyone or ur self how he can afford this, because i am talking from knowledge that quiet a few of these guys were really poor growing up and had to work and save in difficult ways and then use their earnings and investment to reach where they are today,but no you would never think of it that way, all you see is indians buying up the place.Everyone is entitled and is able to go buy properties and stuff but some choose to party and stuff with their money while others tend to live a simple basic life and then use their savings to make better for themselves but no you see a problem with it.get up and open your eyes to reality and stop crying down people for what they have worked hard to achieve.


  27. passing through south we think the point has already been made that Barbadians are concerned about the open immigration policy practiced by the last government. It is not directed at those Indians who are from the Asian continent or their offspring. The concern is targeted at a young group of unskilled Indo-Guyanese entering Barbados in great numbers. Many Barbadians are saying we need to manage this group along with others to ensure Barbados develops in a way the majority of Barbadians would want to have it. As far as we are aware there is nothing wrong with the majority of Barbadians wanting Barbados to develop the way the majority of Barbadians want it.

    Simple as that and don’t feed us this globalization or xenophobic crap!


  28. Dear Passing through south,

    I think you are quite right. It is racism that steers people away from the fact that the people who own the country and the companies are the plantocracy and that in trying to overcome the economic power of the plantocracy we have a lot we can learn from immigrants, their saving, their entrepreneurism and their family life. This is the same elsewhere. Numerous economic studies show that economic dynamism often come from immigrants. The most dynamic parts of Canada, the US, UK and many other countries are run by immigrants, and it benefits everyone else.

    Beyond the blindness of the xenophobia you see on these pages, is the fact that no country can succeed in today’s world by putting its head in the sand and being so xenophobic. Any lover of Barbados who travels frequently will recognise that one of our key problems is insufficient exposure to the methods and standards of other places.

    I am sufficiently self-confident of my Barbadianess that I think if we had 10% of our population who were immigrants, it would be positive thing and not a negative thing.

    But what the racists do not wish to accept is that there is not a significant minority of people who look Indian, but were born here to parents who lived here most of their lives and are Barbadian. You come across these Barbadians in school, at work and abroad and all the ones I know are an asset to this country’s economic development.


  29. Dear David,

    I hope you are well.

    I hope I am not misrepresenting you, but you and others on this blog have put forward the view that we have had an open door immigration policy, though my personal experience of this is more mixed, and you are particularly concerned about the presence of Guyanese Indians in Barbados, for a host of, primarily social reasons, linked to the violence we see occurring, tragically, in our neighbours. This is an important issue which you have addressed form a social perspective and I would like to critically assess from an economist’s perspective.

    First, we are running the economy fast, as evidenced by a historically low unemployment rate and a large current account deficit. Rising immigration is merely one side-effect of high growth and if we did not have that immigration, local costs would have had to have risen substantially more, and it would have choked off growth. So, if you want less immigration you will get higher living costs and lower growth – if nothing else were to change. US economists would call that “Economics 101” as it is an irrefutable observation in theory and fact.

    Take the example of the cost of domestic services like getting a plumber or electrician, or helper, or the cost of building more affordable homes, or the cost of staff at retailers and elsewhere. Without the immigrants the competition for the locals prepared to do the same job would push up labour costs which will impact all costs, will also reduce margins and lower growth.

    You may decide that the social costs of immigration outweigh the economic benefits. You would prefer higher costs, higher unemployment and lower growth in order to keep out what you see as the social ills of having more Guyanese Indians here. I accept that you see these social ills, but I do not at current levels of immigration. The immigrants are largely people who keep to themselves, save their money and for the most part work-hard and if you consider these to be bad lessons for Barbadians, then we live in a different Barbados. I do accept that social ills may arise at some higher level of immigration.

    There is another “social” benefit I see from the current level of immigration. We have a cosy business-sector dominated by a handful of people that may be fairly or unfairly called the plantocracy. Who will shake up this sector? Who will take risks with their savings to compete? Who has the risk-taking and saving culture to do it? Immigrants. This is the story everywhere in the world where the most dynamic parts of an economy are where immigrants are focused. But maybe again, you think the social-ills of immigrants is too big a price to pay for giving the plantocracy a run for their money. Thank you for letting me put this other perspective.


  30. Mr. Gresham,

    Please excuse me for butting in. I am not an academic such as yourself – I just have a smattering of common sense. I have a few questions for you in connection with Indo-Guyanese. Do you accept that many of them are Muslims? (Yes, others are Hindus but as far as I know, Hindus do not go around chopping off peoples’ heads). Do you think the British knew what would be the outcome of opening wide their doors to Asians from Uganda, Pakistan and other countries way back in the 1960’s and 70’s? (Only one Englishman had such foresight and that was Enoch Powell). Do you think the British thought for one moment that they would be blown sky high in their trains, buses and on the streets – BY PEOPLE THEY OPENED THEIR DOORS AND HOSPITALITY TO??? I could go on and on, Mr. Gresham, but the long and the short of it is that I really do not wish to see Mosques springing up all over Barbados and to see our island taken over by Islam. I would rather be dead.


  31. Mr. Gresham we recommend one of our earlier articles for your reading demystification. We have no problem with immigration. We are tired repeating this statement now. All we ask is for the current open door policy to be checked. Developed countries are now slamming the door on open immigration and we know that they are blessed with more resources than our little islands. What makes you feel that a developing country like Barbados can operate without weighing the checks and balances?


  32. David:

    Please give your evidence of the”open-door policy”.

    I, through experience, will dispute your claim.

    Is it your perception, or an actual fact?

  33. passing through south Avatar
    passing through south

    mr thistle alot of the ones blowing up buses and trains r black also and r from africa also, so what do u say to that that we should b vigilant of any one who has ancestory roots in africa?r the ones chopping each others head off in kenya asian also? are the ones creating all the problems all over africa asian also? dos this mean we keep an eye on all blacks because blacks in africa are killing each other? some people really need a reality check


  34. You not only need a brain, you need a little intelligence too. I won’t even bother to dignify your ignorant remarks by answering.


  35. Dear Thistle,

    The majority of Indo-Guyanese in Guyana are Hindu. The issue of Islam and terrorism is a more complex one than you imply or that I cannot do justice here without David reminding me to keep to the issue at hand.

    Dear David,

    It is not credible to start off threads entitled “Indian racism against Afro-Guyanse”; “Can Indians and Africans co-exist in Barbados” and the earlier one on Trinidadian and Guyanese violence and then say, in a coy “voice”, that all you are saying is that we should have more checks and balances on our immigration.

    No one would argue against that, but many argue against the implication of the threads that the level of Indo-Guyanese in Barbados is one of our most serious issues – and one requiring us to have three blogs on the issue in a week or so.

    I notice that you have not answered the point of my last note, that less immigrants means higher cost of living, and slower growth (and one of the implications of that is higher unemployment and crime.) If you want more checks and balances, you mean you want less immigration (otherwise you are just adding regulation to no effect). So do you believe that the social ills are so grave that you are prepared to accept a higher cost of living and lower growth in order to reduce immigration?

    Higher immigration is of net economic benefit to the country, though there will be winners (Bajan consumers) and losers (low skilled Bajans). The economic benefits must be used to minimise the costs on the losers through better access to training and income transfers to low skilled workers.

    If you do not wish to pay for reduced immigration through a higher cost of living and lower growth, I suggest we move on.


  36. Can Indians and Blacks Co-Exist in Barbados? I thought we have been for the past several decades. However, although we have gone to school together how many black bajans can say that they, as adults, socialize with their former classmates of east indian descent? i can’t. That’s because there are in most cases in a different social class.
    I’m an admirer of the way that Indians prosper (generally) where ever they go and that is a growing source of animosity for the local communities across the globe. The thing is Indians have a strong belief in the family structure and a great love for their culture and history which naturally leads to a desire to preserve all things Indian (check London…de brits aint speaking out loud but trust me dem tinkin it evuhday). There is nothing wrong in my eyes with preserving your identity.
    Honestly, i am concerned with number of illegal Indo-Guyanese in bim. i guess that is because i can’t tell an Afro-Guyanese from a black bajan ’til he open he mout’ (duh). if i could, then i’d be concerned with the number of illegal Guyanese in bim. It’s true that we should be open-minded and realize that imigration is a trait of human beings. We are in the globalization era. People gine be moving bout from place to place for whatever reason. But…Barbados is too small to have anybody black, white, pink, purple or blue coming here and living willy-nilly. we can’t be a refuge for all the sick, poor and down-trodden. Yuh can’t open yuh front door an’ let evuhbody come in. There needs to be control of the people who you allow to live and work in your country. (I watching dis caribbean crime ting, CSME and free movement of people carefully.) What we want is to have immigrants who are going to benefit our economy as well as our society regardless of where they come from. We don’t need people bringing their anti-social and racially discriminatory behaviours to our shores. There seems to be plenty of that in Guyana and t&t (i don’t know). There is no denying that that there is racial divide in these countries. Which country doesn’t. We ain’t got much ‘Indians’ as these two countries but still this topic stirs up plenty o’ emotion. I think bajans and peaceful, generous people and we and anybody cud live together. I think anybody of East Indian descent living in Barbados (wid de exception i guess o’ de las’ couple years) cud complain about how they are treated in Barbados. But what we must not be is complacent and allow Barbados…. our country, and our traditions to be overrun by others. We can’t be as open as large countries like de USA, Canada, Europe etc. But we can’t be racist and say get rid of de Guyanese when we really mean Indo-Guyanese. Black and Indian Guyanese in Barbados and nuff of dem bout hey bringing there crime to our country. How that gang leader in Guyana say his wife is not in bim dat somebody wudduh tell he. he like he’s a big fish yuh!! what dat telling yuh bout illegal immigrants in bim?
    As for black bajans, what we need to do is to take a page from de Indo-Bajan book and see how well they are progressing in Barbados, setting up successful businesses, professions, buying property, investing there money wisely. almost all of them came here poor (correct me if i’m wrong). Wunna fuhget bout de coolie man? Coolie man ain’t driving uh old suzuki super carry no more…toyota hiace and merceded vans to transport he tings if you please. we businesses ain’t progressing. look at sawh and mrs. ram. All we want to do is lime pun de block, smoke nuff weed, sleep wid bare young girls, buy big car, big chain, an brand name clothes, den complain when we have to actually work for we pay. Evuhting is a big bashment or fete. There are many more ills in bajan society than the number of so-called ‘indians’ living here. Our society is decaying man…bim gine down de drain. i see it in schools..de van stand….de streets…evuhway. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!

  37. passing through south Avatar
    passing through south

    mr thistle what happenw hen someone bring a point to u u back off.ignorance man.and who r u to question my intellingence

  38. passing through south Avatar
    passing through south

    sorry for the spelling, i was typing in a hurry


  39. Dear Bajan-2-D-bone,

    Well said brother

  40. passing through south Avatar
    passing through south

    bajan 2 de bone.this is for u.i am not shame to say i am of “indian heritage” born and lived in barbados and went to school in barbados.You say you don;t socialise with indians u went to schoolw ith.here is a view form the opposite side.I and alot of us indians keep contact with alot fo our old classmates right through but where the clash comes is is when our old classmates want to socialise they want to do it in a bar or over drinks or over talking about women and stuff and few or maybe alot of indians are not up for it.If it is general talk and in a general atmosphere we dont; mind but when our friends try to encourage us into the dirnks and fetes and parties and stuff tha tis when we keep our distances.(some of us do) this is my point of view


  41. passing through south. clearly u’ve misunderstood what is said or meant to say. i wrote “However, although we have gone to school together how many black bajans can say that they, as adults, socialize with their former classmates of east indian descent? i can’t. That’s because there are in most cases in a different social class.” i’m saying that i CAN’T say i socialize with them because they are generally in a DIFFERENT SOCIAL CLASS. i’m not saying i dont. I went to an older secondary school therefore many of my schoolmate were of a DIFFERENT SOCIAL CLASS than me. i have no idea how old you are or where you went to school but i was giving it from my perspective. You aren’t the only one who avoids socializing of the nature you mention. I’m also that way as well. if you really read my comment you would see that i’ve given indo-bajans or what evuh term ppls care to use (bajan iz bajan to me) great credit for their way of living and socializing. Read more carefully and dont be quick to pass judgement.


  42. Thomas Gresham. thanks for the reply.


  43. I am really getting tired of this particular thread. Mainly because most contributors seem to be focused on projecting their own particular bias without regard to any particular logic or attempt to see alternative views.

    This is not a very complex matter. The question is:

    Should we adopt open borders such that any and every one should be able to travel, work and reside here in Barbados?

    Hardly anyone objects to situations where non-nationals marry bajans and come to live here.
    Few object to cases where foreigners apply legally for the proper status and come to live in Barbados.

    The problem comes from illegal, undocumented immigration of persons who have failed in their own country and who now perceive that their welfare is better served in Barbados. Most come, not to see what they can do for Barbados – but to exploit what Barbados can do for them.

    Now I would like those who support this open-door policy to tell me if they are willing to open their homes to the many less fortunate persons EVEN IN THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD, to come in and live with them…..

    Will you allow an open door policy in your home for these seeking refuge to come in and share with your family -while bringing their culture and ways which led to the failure of their own homes in the first place?

    Have any of you ever even adopted or fostered a child?

    Where do you get off insisting that Bajans should open their little 166 sq mile home to all and sundry?

    Anyone who is supportive of this national open door policy but who is not willing to adopt the same approach with their own home is nothing but a hypocrite talking pretty words to impress….

    ..and I am getting tired of it.


  44. I will try to just concentrate on what I consider an important topic that has to be addressed before the people in the streets address it:

    My concern in relation to Barbados is as follows:
    1. That Barbados is a small island and can only absorb a limited number of people.

    2. That the level of immigrants competition for the low paying jobs will be moving up to the higher paying jobs – natural progression.

    3. There is a possible world recession looming and many of the jobs in building and trades may be drastically reduced. Are these trades men going back home to GT or wherever they came from?

    4. The illegals put extreme pressure on legal immigrants as they have to be on the defensive all the time. The shady behavior of some illegals is not an asset.

    5. My personal experiences with Indians? Well, I admire their attributes, but I notice a behavior pattern that is obvious in both Trinidad and Guyana. – MOST of them feel that they are superior to people of African heritage.

    6. In Barbados this is the same as well. The rich Indians have no social use for Barbadians except as consumers and workers. I do not care if they are born here or not… they just like the local whites who feel that they are born to rule. … and get as rich as possible as quickly as possible.

    7. The cultural divide is great and manifests itself where there is political power through numbers. This is reflected in Guyana there is an obvious policy to marginalize Afro-Guyanese and eventually make Guyana an Indian country with Indian migration.- an Indian outpost of Mother India. Afro-Guyanese are going to ensure that will not happen.(Read the columnist Freddie Kissoon in Kaieteur News Saturday Jan 8,2008, and you will understand more about WHY thore is a guerrilla war going on in Guyana masked as banditry.

    8. Barbados cannot take more Indians simply because they do not easily integrate in the Barbados society. Their culture looks yo Mother India. It is as if every Afro-Barbadian listened almost always to African music and looked daily to Africa as their cultural homeland (maybe they should) – and Barbados is just a place to make money

    that is the reality in MOST cases… as there are numerous exceptions.

    I am just an analyst reporting as I see it..

    I am not a Barbadian, but I do understand what is happening and the concern they have of losing what is truly Barbadian.
    .
    GOD BLESS BARBADOS!

    Analyst


  45. 3. There is a possible world recession looming

    ****************************

    Analyst, if u use dah word roung hay again!!!! – recession!!!!

    There’ll be no recession & you’re a doom-monger, not to mention, merchant!!!!

    *********************************

    I am not a Barbadian,

    ******************************

    Well, there’s the answer you see, Analyst. If u were Barbadian you’d be much more circumspect about using such terms, as optimistic and confident in our ability to deal with any possible, problem, nevermind crisis!!

    Bim is an optimistic, place!! We don’t know the meaning of the word recession and neiher do we want to!!

    Welcome to the cherished, land of optimism – Bim!!!! 🙂


  46. Analyst and Bush Tea,thank you for your reasoned contribution – there are a whole lot of indians,whites and black bajans coming on this site whose interest it is to keep these indo guyanese flowing in this country.

    I hope somebody is pointing these things out to this new government.

    Trust me,do the research and see,indians are GENERALLY not an asset to ANY society they emigrate to.

    Their only aim is to make money,so they look for some socially and financially deprived community,better yet if persons of african descent are in the majority ,and they then proceed to bring in their junk and their trinkets to sell and deprive these communities even more.

    Persons of african descent need to open their eyes and speak with their dollars,buy only those things you need,and support your own people more.

    Check out the businesses indians go into.

    It is always buying and selling,importing rubbish and draining our foreign reserves.

    It is never researching and going into a new field of manufacturing something that builds the name and prestige of our country.

    It is always trying to sell something cheap for a profit or something that could exploit afro bajans.

    So they own a large number of ZRs,but they make sure their children don’t travel on it or interact with those kinda people.

    They don’t care if all the nigger people and them childeren get killed,get raped,get Aids,once the driver bring in he quota of money per day.

    They take over stores like Brydens,and others in Bridgetown and before you can say -pepp,peep, they turn the whole place into a cheap,indian bazaar with little,little spots renting out to foolish blacks for nough,nough money and all kinda cheap pieces of cloth and cheap shiny things hanging up all over the door,all over the walls – just like in Bombay.

    They got bridgetown looking like calcutta or something – just like a cheap run down slum.

    Afro or black bajans need to learn to keep their money in their pockets and stop buying every cheap thing these people put out for sale.

    I rarely buy anything from these stores.

    Finally like I have said before look to those other countries where there are mixed communities and where there are large number of indians living and you will see how much hatred there is by the indians against those persons of african descent.

    Read about what happened to Fiji.

    These unskilled,poor,unsrupulous indo guyanese are only waiting for their chance when they feel they are strong,enough and numerically significant enough before they make thier true intentions known to these ignorant,unsuspecting bajans – who feel we all are one nice big family.

    Soon,they will be asking for indian bank holidays,indians (hindu)only schools,indian religions to be part of every thing national.

    See what happened in Britain,the english people who like to be politically correct felt by encouraging them to keep their tradtions and not integrate into british societies that they were doing a good thing.

    Now they are creating havoc in Britain.Setting up enclaves all over that country and have violent confrontations as we saw about 2 years ago in Birmingham and a few other cities.

    They are insisting their children go to catholic private schools (becuse they are the best schools),even though they are not catholics and the schools are for catholics only.

    They go into formerly tranquil places like Oxford etc and set up mosques and blast out their call to pray at various times during the day and when the majority indigenous,british poulation complain – these indians cry ‘racism’.

    Although they are born in Britain they hate britain and all things british and plot how to kill,maim and destroy those very people who allow them in.

    I could go on and on,but I encourage bajans to read for yourself and see the danger that lies ahead.


  47. Dear Bush Tea et al,

    No one is arguing for an open door policy. That’s a straw man.

    On what basis would you limit immigration? In some countries they do it on a points system, with points based on needy skills. In a way the CSME approach (only graduates) points in that direction. (Though I must point out that many graduates I know are finding it very hard to get the permits.)

    This is not open door. The open door bit is only if we dont care about sending overstayers back. I dont think the immigration and police force would say they dont send people back – people are being sent back every night – but you may argue – and I do not know – that they could be a lot more effective than they are at sending people back.

    In this case, all you then need to do is to be better at catching overstayers, wherever they are form, be it Guyana, Jamaica, St Lucia, or Britain and all this gunk about Indo-Guyanese is just irrelevant.

    The points system approach, used by Canada I believe, tends to make sense to those who are not keen on many immigrants, but many economists question that. Unskilled, economically hungry immigrants are actually the dynamic bit.

    Alternatively, you could invest more in finding overstayers and work out what you want our population size and growth to be, and let that imply a number of people we could give temporary residency permits to. You could then allocate half of those permits on the basis of points (graduates, or qualifications in skills that are of short supply in Barbados) and half by a lottery. The US system is closer to that. We would have to make sure neither approach is vulnerable to bribery.

    What is the right level of immigration? Someone estimated that they might be 10,000 illegal immigrants in Bim. I dont know the basis of such an estimate and it seems a little high for me, but let us take that as a benchmark.

    Let us say we do our calculation of our capacity and we conclude that the maximum amount of immigrants we would give a temporary residency permit to each year would be a modest 1.5% net of our labour force, or 0.5% of our population.

    This would probably push our long-run economic growth rate up by around 1.5% or more, from 3-4% to 5% (and would push our underlying inflation rate down too) and that’s probably both desirable and within our social and economic capacity, especially when many other countries are growing at 5-10%.

    1.5% labour force growth is around 1500 people per year. Over 15 years that would be 22,500. I doubt we are actually very far from that number.

    The point of these back of the envelope calculations is that while no one supports an “open door” policy, or not to have sufficient “checks and balances” but that the idea that things would be dramatically different if we had a more managed system is suspect.

    Moreover, if you would reduce the rate much below this there will be economic consequences you may not like. The Barbados unemployment rate is at a record low. Whenever that happens in any country you get more immigration than normal and without it, living costs would be higher and growth lower. It is not black and white, or even black and brown, there are trade-offs. If you want a more competitive, fast-growing economy with good, high paying jobs for locals, you cannot have something that looks more “closed door” than whatever we do have today.


  48. Thomas please return to earth soon!

    We define immigration currently at practice in Barbados as open because there is no plan that we know of where Guyanese or any other group are monitored and routinely picked up for overstaying. Currently it is done on an ad hoc basis and most Barbadians on the ground know that a large cadre of illegal immigrants are currently in Barbados.

    Your other argument about the impact of immigration on lowering prices in Barbados, who is making that point? Those of us who are concerned about the immigration problem in Barbados centre our arguments around illegal immigrants and the lack of a management of the problem which ultimately leads to socio-economic issues especially in small countries.


  49. Anonymous // February 3, 2008 at 5:51 am

    Analyst and Bush Tea,thank you for your reasoned contribution –

    ********************************

    I’m sorry that you don’t appreciate, MY, contribution ‘A’ but I absolutely, agree with everything that u said!!

    So, the Indians, own the ZRs!!!! My god, Bim is finished!!!!

    And the BLP, allowed all that to happen!!!! My god, what a pity they were n’t kicked-out, ages ago!!!!

    ****************************

    These unskilled,poor,unsrupulous indo guyanese are only waiting for their chance when they feel they are strong,enough and numerically significant enough before they make thier true intentions known to these ignorant,unsuspecting bajans – who feel we all are one nice big family.

    *********************************

    Absolutely, agree with u here, too!!!!

    *********************************

    See what happened in Britain,the english people who like to be politically correct

    *********************************

    ‘A’, u may be able to see, now, why I HAVE ABSOLUTELY, NO TIME, AT ALL FOR POLITICAL-CORRECTNESS!! IT WORKS TO THE DETRIMENT OF OUR OWN PEOPLE!!!! When I try to explain matters like this to less knowing people, they’re unable to understand!!!!

    ‘A’, I’m so pleased that you have experience of the British situation because when I explain the Bajans don’t believe, neither about how the Jamaicans have ruined Britain for west indians!!

    Anyhow, one subject at a time!!!! Agree, completely, with everything you’ve said there, ‘A’. They won’t be convinced by me so hopefully, they will be by you, but the real truth of the matter is that black people are so vain!!!! As long as they’ve got nice, material objects they don’t seem to care about anything else, meanwhile the enemy’s hard at work undermining everything they’ve ever achieved and quietly, taking it away from them!!!! One day they may wake-up to find that they own, actually, nothing at all!!!!


  50. Mr Gresham

    I don’t really want no lotta long talk with you on this subject.

    How many non -family members live in your home?
    How many indigents do you allow to come and live with your family per month?

    When you provide those answers, I will tell you my figures for immigration limits.

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