Update:Trinidad Election Watch, November 05, 2007~Will The Trend Continue?

Join Barbados Underground and follow the countdown of the 41 seats in the Trinidad and Tobago General Elections 2007 on C-News – The Voice of TnT.

Source: Trinidad Guardian

Yet another General Election is upon us in the Caribbean and if the result runs true to form the People National Movement (PNM) might be found wanting when the the final result is posted. In Barbados, Prime Minister Owen Arthur will have an eye on this election result if for no other reason that a PNM defeat will help to feed a public perception that incumbent governments need to be swept from office come hell or high water.

The happenings in T&T must also interest Barbadians because of the geographical proximity and the growing economic interdependence of the two countries. The current debate in Barbados regarding the acquisition of the Barbados conglomerate BS&T by Neal & Massy and Ansa MaCal, the offer by CLICO for Barbados Farms which is a company that owns over 4000 acres of land, the controversial purchase of the Barbados National Bank (BNB) and we can go on makes our point. Whether we agree on what some consider to be the hegemonic behaviour of T&T or whether current events mirror the need to integrate under the ideals of the Caribbean Single Market and Economy (CSME), events in T&T will create conversation in Barbados.


Basdeo Panday, Patrick Manning and Winston Dookeran:
Source: T&T News Blog

We have been scanning the T&T newspapers and listening to the news when we can. What is noticeable is the violence and crime. The reemergence of the relic Basdeo Panday who seems to still have the fire in his belly. Our analysis of the situation suggest that the passivity of Winston Dookeran has left the door open for Panday and the UNC. From this distance it looks to us as if T&T for all its economic advancement is a country which will continue to vote along racial lines – we would welcome feedback from our T&T visitors to the blog on this point! The recent polls all show that the race will be very tight so it makes us wonder why Panday – UNC and Dookeran – COP wouldn’t entertain a coalition going into the election to ensure that they can better the odds.

If our observation reflects our naiveté about Trinidad politics please forgive us!

Barbados Underground wish the T&T political parties well. Even though general elections are taking place in a sovereign country the world sees us as one space, one Caribbean. The leaders of our Caribbean continue to advocate that we must move to a single economic space to ensure our survival in the prevailing global turbulence. The ability of any T&T government to manage its cosmopolitan environment must interest Caribbean neighbours. If we can’t manage the diversity on the domestic front how can we hope to do it under a CSME umbrella!

Check-out Allyuh.com blog to follow all the election coverage.

80 thoughts on “Update:Trinidad Election Watch, November 05, 2007~Will The Trend Continue?

  1. It is the violence which Barbadians should be scared of. We talk bout importing inflation, well with all these Trini’s bout here we mite just be importing crime and violence.

  2. If Barbadians are so stupid as to allow Clico to buy out Barbados Farms they can put their heads between their legs and kiss their proverbvial heritage asses good bye.

  3. It is very interesting to read that the political parties have been using the online medium to get their messages out. Barbados it has been reported has a high level of online access so it follows that Barbados more than Trinidad should be utilizing this medium. For example the T&T political parties have been advertising in the social media like HI5 and facebook. We did a quick check and facebook has over 10, 000 Barbadians registered online, mainly young people. If Barbadian politicians want to entice the youngsters to the political arena they need to change it up.

  4. Just finished scanning the T&T newspapers and again we have an example of a newspaper standing up to a Prime Minister. Manning has filed a law suit against the Express for defamation. The Trinidad Express is standing firm. Newspapers and radio stations in Barbados just don’t have a back bone. It could be that Manning has filed the suit on the eve of election to send a message.

    Also it looks like Ricky Singh read our article 🙂

  5. Barbados got what they really wanted, the opportunity to fish for hydro-carbons. A fishing agreement will always be stacked against Barbados because the fishing industry is a key industry for Tobago. Why would they jeopardize Tobagonian fishermen to satisfy those in Barbados?

  6. What makes Barbados think that they can manage a multiracial society by allowing so many people into a small country from multiethinic backgrounds? Trinidad after all these years still voting along racial lines and everything about race.

  7. DAVID

    “Why would they jeopardize Tobagonian fishermen to satisfy those in Barbados?”

    Why do we Bajans jeopardize Bajan jobs for Guyanese, Trinidadians, Jamaicans, St Lucians, Vincentians, Dominicans, Grenadians, Chinese etc. etc.?

  8. Anonymous~the difference here is T&T intransigence or whatever you want to call it. Barbados is embracing ALL people while T&T is not so generous with their fish!

  9. Yes Trini’s continue to vote along racial lines, but it now looks like the blacks are the ones who are unable to move beyond race. The PNM is a disaster! Petro dollars flowing like water, but black people still catching hell, and T&T has now displaced Jamaica as the crime capital of the WI. I was listening to a radio talk show this weekend, and clearly most blacks are fed up with the PNM, but they are still not prepared to vote UNC or COP. De Doc is dead and gone, but the blacks are still holding on.

  10. Anonymous // Nov 5th 2007 at 7:57 am

    What makes Barbados think that they can manage a multiracial society by allowing so many people into a small country from multiethinic backgrounds? Trinidad after all these years still voting along racial lines and everything about race.
    It is against this background of questions and concerns that I proudly wear the ill assigned xenophobic label.

  11. de gap // Nov 5th 2007 at 10:43 am

    Yes Trini’s continue to vote along racial lines, but it now looks like the blacks are the ones who are unable to move beyond race. The PNM is a disaster! Petro dollars flowing like water, but black people still catching hell, and T&T has now displaced Jamaica as the crime capital of the WI. I was listening to a radio talk show this weekend, and clearly most blacks are fed up with the PNM, but they are still not prepared to vote UNC or COP. De Doc is dead and gone, but the blacks are still holding on.
    I don’t know if the you can say that Blacks are the ones unable to move beyond race …..well maybe in the way they prefer to vote, but certainly Indo trinis and “Dooglah” women are much preferred by Trini Blacks. 😀

  12. de gap please don’t despair, we have to continue to build!

    We are disappointed that our leaders continue to be stuck in the mire when it comes to the development of the Caribbean. Their proclivity to wrestle with political matters over issues of a social flavor continues to disappoint. We have written articles on BU and papers elsewhere that Caribbean governments should have sponsored case studies on what is takes for multi-ethnic societies to co-exist and be productive, and we are not talking GDP ONLY! How can we develop educational systems which seek to improve harmony among our people BLACK, WHITE AND BLUE!

    Unfortunately racial harmony is something which black people don’t like to discuss. But to the topic at hand, T&T provides a good population to study and to inform social reform programs which should be sponsored under the umbrella of CSME, in fact it should have been a precursor. Our populations have taken for granted that for people from different ethic backgrounds to come together is a natural process.

  13. The T&T vote would have always proved diffficult to remove the PNM and put a CONVICT like Basdeo Panday in power !

    He must recall this man should be doing time behind bars !

    The PNM result is no comfort for the BLP because the T&T dynamics are different in comparison with the change of governments sweeping the Caribbean .

    The truth must be told that this BLP government is headed by a DRUNKARD !

    Did Barbadians see the DRUNKARD on TV 8 stammering & staggering from the effects of strong SPIRITS ?

    Proclaiming what a pathetic CROOK he is……that he too BUSY to investigate the HARDWOOD issue !

    No doubt he is telling Barbadians that he is too BUSY to tell them about :


    It is time this political CHARLARTAN…..be sent to DODDS for some good HARDWOOD !

  14. At this early stage we get call it for the PNM. It perhaps spells the end of Panday’s political career. The results also show that the PNM will regain the government with less votes than last time around. It also shows that if the COP has joined with the UNC it could have been a different result.

    Arthur can take heart from the result and feel that as the experienced and seasoned leader he has the advantage in the upcoming election.

  15. The Trinidadian election has no relation to our own election, what is cleart osee from this poll result is that the Trinidadians are very unhappy with the PNM the splitting of the vote was critical to the success of the PNM.
    Iwould not suggest that this by any means suggest a strong performance of the PNm it is actually a very poor showing by them.
    The intent of the people was clear but they loss out by the two parties going head to head.

  16. David I totally disagree with your suggestion that Arthur can feel relieved.
    This result has no bearing on the likely outcome of the Barbados elections.
    The number of votes that will return the PNM to power will be less that the combined votes of the COP and NAR the people of the twin islands have clearly said that they want a change but how do they get to that point??
    We have many pressing issues in our election, we have not got the racial divide, as they have in Trinidad our issues are very different to theirs.
    As we are hearing on the radio the COP will hold in excess of 100,000 votes but still they have little or no voice in the house of assembly

  17. WIV~You should not disregard a perception which will be created that an incumbent government can win a government. This is important because it bucks a trend in the last 4-5 elections in the Caribbean.Arthur being the political tactician that he is will spin this to tremendous advantage.

  18. Did Trinidad have the same percentage of undecided voters as we are seeing in our polls and secondly was their percentage of those wanting change as high as ours ?
    I think not, our conditions are somewhat different to those in Trinidad.
    We do not have the divide in terms of race as they have, our split is the rich versus the poor and this is becoming a wider divide with each passing day.
    I see nothing in this result for Owing to seek solace from his own fate.

    THERE HAS BEEN A CERTAIN DESPERATION in the tactics of the Barbados Labour Party (BLP) in the past three months. The features of this desperation are unique. We have seen BLP desperation before. In 1981, fearful that the electoral reforms it introduced would wound it politically, we saw electoral irregularities of a magnitude never witnessed in Barbados’ history. Errol Barrow said the election was not free and fair.

    In 1986, as the curtain was closing on a BLP Administration, the campaign it ran was the most corrosive ever. Political attack advertisements were the order of the day and issues of race and identity came to the fore. BLP leader, the late Sir Harold St John, said the BLP spent US$1 million on ads alone, hiring the top ad firm – and the shortly-thereafter
    disgraced – Saatchi & Saatchi.

    This year is different. No, we don’t mean the sight of Mia Mottley dancing across a temporary stage singing “People Are You Ready?” while Mascoll tells her she’s ready! We have seen all of that in the past and it confirms that, despite Owen’s reservations, Mia is definitely his replacement. And Mascoll loves her dearly!

    We don’t mean the full-page attack advertisement on David Thompson two Sundays ago. All that means is that the BLP has been wounded by the serious Hardwood allegations and blood has been drawn, so the only way to deal with it is to attack David Thompson. Can you imagine a BLP Administration having to spend thousands in a paid political ad to respond to Hardwood Housing when all of Barbados was ready to listen to Mascoll’s replies without having to pay? Some members of the public would pay Mascoll to respond!

    We don’t even consider Liz Thompson pulling out her stinger and carting it around as she did a cutlass on a political platform in 1999. None of these can compare to “Girls Gone Wild”, try as they might and no matter how they try to shock and awe us into believing that this beleaguered and deadweight Administration still has some life.

    This Government paints an ugly, sorry picture now wherever they go and whatever they do. The policy mantra to reverse this blight is called “Face It And Fix It”. But that is a total farce.

    Fourteen years after they were elected – and their political friends have had a field day with prices, chalking up massive profits through price-gouging of the poor – the BLP now says that it has a policy to deal with price-gouging! For all of those 14 years Owen Arthur says: “We can’t go back to the bad old days of price controls. We can’t remove surcharges. We can’t do this and we can’t do that.” Lynette Eastmond says that price controls won’t work. Mascoll, on hearing
    Chris Sinckler say a DLP government will introduce selective price controls, says it’s foolishness!

    So after emptying our wallets for those 14 years, and on the eve of an election, the blighted Minister of Finance now tells us that he will make an assault on prices. Does someone think Bajans are really stupid?

    As we said before, an election is around the corner, and in true “face-it-and-fix-it” style, he is now facing judgment day with the electors of this country and he doesn’t want them to fix him, so promises galore will be the order of the day before the big day.

    “Face it and fix it” is a farce.

  20. My two cents is simple. Manning will win in a landslide victory.

    CADRES should be shut down, all their polls are incorrect and always WRONG.

    Why do we even bother with them?

  21. Jay in fairness to Peter he was at pains to point out that he was not prepared to call the T&T election result. The reality as we see, it appears that the COP pull significant votes from the UNC and the PNM was the beneficiary.

    TRINIDAD and Tobago yesterday voted to “step up” with Prime Minister Patrick Manning and the People’s National Movement.

    In one of the most keenly contested election races in recent years, the people bought into the party’s plan to continue its goal of taking the country to developed status by 2020 with a second straight term in office, giving the PNM 26 of the 41 seats.

    Source : Trinidad Express

  22. Well well well!

    Looks like the black people in Trinidad find it more important to vote for people of their own skin colour (the PNM), regardless of their obvious corruption and arrogance!!!

    These ridiculous views make a mockery of democracy.

    Big trouble to come in little old Trinidad!!

    Careful Davy Thompson you lookin’ awfully white these days!!

  23. Yes indeed commiserations to Trinidad on the re-election of the PNM.

    BUT congratulations on becoming a three party state! It was never going to be the election for COP – too early.

    Trinidad is rich just now and may be able to afford the plundering ofthe PNM, but come the next election the COP will be a force to be reckoned with!

    Two viable opposition parties keeping the PNM in line!! Good news for Trini.

    Well done!

    Time for a third way in BIM!!!

    The D’s and B’s are as corrupt as each other!

  24. Jay // Nov 6th 2007 at 12:13 am

    My two cents is simple. Manning will win in a landslide victory.

    CADRES should be shut down, all their polls are incorrect and always WRONG.

    Why do we even bother with them?

    You should be ashame to print this……..CADRES said the BLP would win the next election !

    75% of the Barbadian electorate knows that CADRES is WRONG !

    Change is coming…..and very SOON !

  25. Jerome Hinds

    Do the DLP deserve to win an election? OR will they simply get in because people are protesting against the BLP?

    There is no allowing for how the vast number of ordinary people will vote. Remember there is a lot of personality voting in BIM and I doan see a lot of big personalities on the D side!!!

    On their performance so far I hope the B’s win, then maybe people will wake up and smell the coffee.

  26. In the last sentance I refer to the D’s performance, not the B’s – sorry I did not make that clear.


  27. What do we say you say? Maybe you have not read our comments above so let us repeat. We think that the PNM bucking the trend of incumbents being booted out is a very reassuring sign for the Arthur administration. We believe that the perception which had started to take root can now disappear. We can all rationalize that the T&T environment is different but at the end of it all perception rules!

    The COP proves Harold Hoyte’s point as well. Good guys finish last in politics. Winston Dookeran by all reports is a respected politician and individual who is respected by Trinidadians across the political divide. He has to wait 5 years and even then there are big doubts about the viability of a third party in the Caribbean. The pundits may tell you that the COP got the 100,000 votes because of UNC voters who are dissatisfied with the leadership mess i.e Panday and the fact that he is an Indian. Whether his party got the support on its own steam is very doubtful.

  28. //The COP proves Harold Hoyte’s point as well. Good guys finish last in politics;;

    David the pre election polls also had Dookeran as a more popular leader than Manning. Over to you.

  29. mali~let us agree up front that the pollsters all preface their mouthings on the T&T election that there were too many variables which they could not explain. The issue of race, crime, propaganda etc. What we are saying is Dookeran’s popularity as a leader and his inability to convert it to victory even at a personal level is something we wait to have explained. Maybe you can give Peter Wickham a call and feed us his response.

  30. The results of the T&T election does not bode well for the DLP when the people of Barbados is called to the polls. And why do I say this let me explain to the howls of the wolf pack.

    The recent CADRES poll done by Mr.Wickham shows that the PM Owen Arthur is, regarded by the people as more popular than David Thompson. I am not saying this, the Poll as I understood it said this.

    The concern of 40% of the people many who probably do not even vote had ONE CONCERN “The high cost of living in Barbados”. Housing and crime was low on their concern list. What concerns then did the other 60% or so have? Are they happy with the status quo? We don’t know do we?

    Arthur has done what I expected him to do and what I have said now for months, but no one listens. He and his members/addvisers are focusing in the press like yesterday to assure people he is listening and acting on their concerns. Yesterday Arthur and Eastmond both were singing in concert about addressing what? “High food costs”.

    All Arthur and Uncle Tom, Al Gilkes need do is to find a way to show in some meaningful way before the election is called that SOME heavy duty food costs are dropping and the 40% will forget and forgive. Maybe only 20 or 30 % of them vote but it all helps. And herein lies the danger that I have constantly suggested to the DLP, could cost them the election that is within their grasp. And which the DLP camp and “Yardbroom” a credible and respected poster criticizes me for saying.

    Thompson as to lay out his platform in a sincere, genuine and concerned manner and tell the people what he is going to do to address the many problems that are perceived on these blogs as plaguing Barbados, but, which obviously is not shared by the mainstream society as the issues the people want fixed.

    We hear on these blogs a lot about Hardwood, ABC, GEMS, Greenland, Graeme Hall and the list is endless, but none of these things surfaced in the CADRES poll as being a concern of mainstream Barbadians. Why? Were I the PM then why would I worry about them? My focus would be on the high cost of living and even though housing and crime was low priority items for the people according to the poll I would promise that these too will be a priority of mine to fix.

    Thompson cannot continue to sit back until the last minute. He has to take the fight to the BLP and convince the people “Hes de man”.

    Thompson is the unproven Candidate while Arthur has 14 years under his belt. This is a tremendous advantage. Therefore it is obvious Thompson has to prove himself on the hustings and to the public at large and convincingly. I think he could do better in this regard.

    Remember Niro? he fiddled too as Rome burned!

    Whunna all don’t shoot muh at de same time as I es only de messenger! And giving an unbiased opinion of the situation like other poor and humble Barvadians

  31. “In Barbados, Prime Minister Owen Arthur will have an eye on this election result if for no other reason that a PNM defeat will help to feed a public perception that incumbent governments need to be swept from office come hell or high water.”

    Barbados is not Trinidad, FOOL.

  32. Idjut obviously the Trinidadian voter did not feel that way so why would you and based on what facts believe the Barbadian voter would think as you suggest because of the results in T&T.

    I suggest you rethink that logic!

  33. In another forums someone wrote the following

    “Good News For Owen Arthur – PNM Wins In Trinidad”
    “Bad news for Adrian, Jock and the BFP”

    Why is this bad news for me? I don’t profess to understand the electorial dynamics of Trinidad and Tobago. From the face it i have been unable to match my indepth understanding of the Barbadian political scene to that of Trinidad, which tells me that there is significant difference between the two. This is only good news for the BLP to spin in their world of make belief. This is no more relevant than the leadership talk is irrelevant, in terms of how the ballot paper is presented to a voter. It will be a sad day if Bajans allow the BLP spin machine to successfully sell them on following anything out of trinidad. If we gine vote like them we could as well keep silent on the Trinidad-ization of our corporate sector. 😀

    What i do know about Trinidad is that it is a racially divided country, so when the pundits on the ground there tells me that the ethnic Indo vote was split between the UNC and the COP and that if they had united the PNM would have been outed, is sufficient to convince me that the Trini outcome has no bearing on it’s own on the electorate of Barbados, but just like a product brought to market after a spectacular marketing campaign to sell it on significance that it does not have on it’s own, I expect the BLP to market this PNM win as something that it is not. We will see if Bajans are as smart as they are rumoured to be.
    …..For what it is worth I do not believe that the electorate in neighbouring states are influance by the outcome of election in other states to the point that they will copy hook line and sincker the external voting patterns.

    …..Lets see, now i am voting in St.James Central, the current representative is a never around and when he is, he is aloof and condesending, but the Trinidadians voted in the majority of incumbants so i better do the same. Yeh right.

  34. This is the most appropriate Post I could find to make these comments. And David I realize there is little relevancy to what I am about to say and the real thrust of THIS Post but so long as it is read and considered then, I think this is the main point I want to accomplish.

    In To-days Nation news Senator Frundel Stuart has in my opinion struck the nail directly on the head and is in line with what I have been saying here on this blog for months. The Senator says the BLP has a secret deal with the “merchant” class.

    As readers of this blog know I have long said that the “Social” Partnership is an unacceptable body for deciding and influencing the road map of Legislation proposed by the Government on any issue impacting the Barbados electorate.

    A duly and Democratically elected Government must show complete impartiality, when it comes to the decision making process in the House of Assembly. To involve such volatile elements as the Trade Union and Private sector groups cast serious suspicion and with good cause as to the impartiality of the decisons and or Legislative changes being proposed and enacted.

    The people, and according to Cadres 40% of the people of Barbados are crying out about the high cost of living. For the Government to consult with the Social Partners on this matter viz a viz price controls as a solution to the problem would be nothing short of a bloody farce. Do you think the Merchants are going to accept lower profits or the Unions lower wages? Give your head a shake!

    Look at what the Minister of Labour said on the public record only a few weeks ago about addressing the issue of illegal workers/aliens. He said that the Government wanted to bring in legislation that “punished” employers who knowingly hired “illegal” workers. BUT, BUT this Legislation could only be passed if the “Social Partners” approved! WHY?

    I asked then and I ask now who was elected to Govern Barbados and make the hard decisions which impact ALL Barbadians. Was it the BLP Government or the Social Partnership?

    When a Democratic Government is not only in bed but under the covers with two of the most influential social and business structures as is the case in Barbados what part of this exercise exudes “impartiality”.

    Both of the factions involved and which they have clearly shown to be the case in just the past six months favour the wealthy and Foreign element of Barbados. Sir. Roy huffed and puffed at the defective steel and Chinese workers being used on the Four Seasons Pagoda, then was called to the BLP inner sanctum and all was forgiven. The Private Sector is far more discreet and they can meet with the PM over a drink at an upscale watering hole or Privately without a soul knowing to make their deals.

    Though I have no proof to support the allegation being advocated by the good Senator is not to say that it is not well founded and because of the relationship between Social Paretnership and the Government believable. The merchants could well do what is needed to lower food and other costs to fool the electorate and as soon as the BLP is back in power reverse that trend! What would or could the electorate do until another election rolled around?

    I suggest that ALL Barbadians on the lower rounds of the ladder look carefully at promises and smoke and mirrors actions by this BLP Government. Because as I suspect the BLP campaign will be filled with trickery and deceit.

    Think carefully about what I am saying. Because Senator Stuart could be on to something.

  35. No Name: Stuart knows of what he speaks. This latest comments is in furtherance to a historical time line he gave of the Barbados planter class and how they have evolved and still exist till this day within the BLP and via such istitutions as that social partnership, chamber of commerce, eomployers federation etc.

    A submittion i made to the Barbados forum back on October 2006

    “All my life i have heard accusations of White shadows in politics, of their exacting influence on the governance of our country above and beyond their numbers and constituentcy and always in the Background. I want to get your thoughts, stories, opinions on these White Shadows, who they are, what actions have they influence, whom they have influence etc. What led me to this, is comments past and present that seem to correlate to planned behaviour rather than happenstance, the latter more likely to indicate, and reflect that white shadows are a more than rumour. I see correlating linkages between Elombe Mottley 2000 article, the actions of Ernest Deighton Mottley chronicled by Dr. Cheltenham, and the comments of Mr. Freundel Stuart as he attempt to lay out the case for a revisitation of classic conservatism in Barbados by the current GoB.

    Elombe Mottley 2000 article

    Papa Motts Legacy

    Fruendel Stuart planter Class timeline

  36. The BLP will win it’s 4th term in Government. This I know for sure, last time I checked, we only need 16 seats. We have 19 confirmed and 8 up in the air…..at the moment that is. Now that Arthur has rung the election bell you can rest assured, we will be more prepared to keep the government than the dems will be to fight for it.

  37. Btw, I love the two moutedness of Jerome…first he says manning will lose, now he’s fumbling for words over how he won in grand style…….

    the only change that is coming is to the organisational chart of the DLP lol

  38. Adrian Hinds.

    “White Shadows” You are going back in time and yes there were “White” Shadows, but I am not prepared to name any of them and I will tell you why.

    The “White” Shadow reference came up during the Errol Barrow era. But in spite of the “White” Shadows the Dipper had no problem still looking out for the little people and the masses. Mr. Barrow had rare qualities that are not found in todays politicians.

    Barrow would tell anybody white shadow or not and black people too to go to hell or worse if he had cause. Errol Barrow was as they say a “mans man”. He had a concience, a sense of decency and moral instincts second to none. That does not mean he was faultless. But, but were I a betting man I would lay down my life, that the Dipper was not on the “take” because no one could buy him.

    Todays situation IN MY HUMBLE AND CONSDERED opinion when it comes to “White” shadows is a far more complex situation than in the days of the Dipper. To-day Adrian we have White, Black and even more dangerous, Foreign “Shadows”. All of whom are wealthy, hold big power in Barbados and get their way.

    These people control the BLP like a remote control and I dare say have so much on most of them that they own them. (figuratively speaking in case someone misunderstands my intent)

    Why do you believe that to this day the prosperity of Barbados has only touched the lives of a minimal amount of the population? Why do you believe that 50 or more percent of the population are not drawing wages comparable or keeping up with inflation? Why do you think that certain areas of the island mainly those where the less fortunate live is always without water, flooding, road washouts etc. I am not going on as you get the picture.

    We are told the island has a 4% unemployment rate. Yet Ezzra Alleyne said a month ago or so on the public record that 145,000 Bajans do not draw a pay check. When one looks at the recent bru ha ha concerning tourism statistics who do you believe when it comes to the unemployment rate. If you cannot believe the Central Bank Governor of a Nation, should you believe the Prime Minister and his buffoons? Hello!

    Why is the only General Hospital(QEH) in the island a bloody disgrace and no one gives a shit? And it has been this way for decades. Do you think the average Big Up, Middle class Bajan, Foreigner or most Government members use it? The facility is good enough for the masses like is the roads and water in their areas. But, here is the fallacy of this bullshit that shows you the thinking that goes on in Barbados which is as outdated and reckless as the stastistics put out by the BSS.

    The islands Tourism experts believe for instance that people coming to Barbados are like them uninformed and do not realize that they can research the facilities available in Barbados on the web very accurately. Now tell me, when you have older folk and nuff of these are the ones travelling and got the money but also are more prone to needing expert medical treatment in the event of stroke, hear attack, fractures etc. Do you think they are coming to Barbados with a third rate medical hospital? And here is Odle wanting the wealthy to come. These people are not fools. Adrian Loveridge just said the Sandy Lane and Savannah are among the worse rated on the island. And these are hotels catering to the extremely wealthy. Does that not tell you something about the “mentality” of many Barbadians?

    Where are the 21st century “White, Black and Foreign” shadows in all of this? Who say they support equality, opportunity for all and the right for all to live the dream. And then in the next breath control the Government to serve them only!

    As the boys bout hey say say these fellows is mek nuff mock sport! Adrian wuh you getting my blood pressure up fuh I ent do you nutten!

  39. No name, don’t get caught up on the colour, for it is no longer a anatomical identifying trait. With all the assimilation of other hues and creeds over centuries since slavery white as become a way of life and outlook, so the shadows tho no longer strictly white are none the less more likely to exhibit those unmistakable attitudes of yore. I am still looking for Chris Sinkler Bonaparte State speech which liken today’s Barbados unto the times of Louis the 16th i believe who was recorded as saying i am the state. So to my mind white shadow no longer speaks to a particular looking kind of person but more so to a particular type of behaviour.

  40. Adrian I have to call it like it is and you must get color involved if different colors are involved. Too many people have a hang up on this. You asked me a question am I not entitled to answer it as honestly and truthfully as I can?

    In the Barrow time they were “WHITE” shadows. Today there are both black and white Shadows and Foreigners thrown in what do you expect me to say.

    Are you sensitive to the fact that I am including blacks, because if you are I will make no apology because it is the truth.

    Why do you think that WHITE was used to describe the Shadows back a few decades ago was it only anatomically applicable then? Come on Adrian get with it!

  41. No Name // Nov 6th 2007 at 4:25 pm

    Adrian I have to call it like it is and you must get color involved if different colors are involved.
    You mean to tell that after i explain what i meant you are still insisting that i meant something else or that i cannot use a word the way i see fit? You are not going to make any headway in this.

    Too many people have a hang up on this.
    Not my concern, and you are not going to get my help to fight your battle on other people’s hangups.

    You asked me a question am I not entitled to answer it as honestly and truthfully as I can?
    Of course and you can continue to believe whatever you want, but i thought it necessary to explain what i meant by using and continuing to use the term White Shadows. Your answer to my question suggested that you did not understand how i chose to use the term.

    In the Barrow time they were “WHITE” shadows. Today there are both black and white Shadows and Foreigners thrown in what do you expect me to say.
    ….and today as far as i am concern i will continue to use the term “White Shadows” to define the same group that you are refering too. I think it is of importance to me that i maintain the historical link to the actions of todays multicoloured WHITE SHADOWS to the actions and persons that led to the birth of the term. We can lose the historical context and Fruendel Staurt will have to continually repeat himself, as the next No name comes along and express amazment at the continuation of the same thing with new faces and different skin colours, as if it never happened before. Voltaire certainly understood this and is probably why he made the comment to the effect that he who cannot make use of 3,000 years of history is living hand to mouth.

    Are you sensitive to the fact that I am including blacks, because if you are I will make no apology because it is the truth.
    I don’t know that i am sensitive to it, but i am indeed aware that you have included blacks, as i have, for we are watching the same events unfold. Hallam Nicholls, Rodney Wilkinson, David Shorey et all are not exactly white, and yet their behaviour is no different that of a Douglas Lynch, Robin Bynoe, R.L. Seale, etc.

    Why do you think that WHITE was used to describe the Shadows back a few decades ago was it only anatomically applicable then? Come on Adrian get with it!
    I would have to first determine the context and the author who use the term and if confuse would seek their clarification and be done with it. You are not going to get me to conform to your understanding of my use of the word especially after i have explained my use of it.

  42. Adrian my friend leave me out of your opinions as you and me think very differently.

    I never got involved with you. You came to me not me to you

  43. No Name // Nov 6th 2007 at 5:00 pm

    Adrian my friend leave me out of your opinions as you and me think very differently.

    I never got involved with you. You came to me not me to you
    and i shall continue…….not your friend, you are not in my opinions, for these two things would require some knowlege of who you are; I don’t know you and don’t care too. 😀

    ….let the term White shadows define a behaviour more so than a skin trait and you will not think that you have discovered something new in Fruendel Stuart’s comments, and voltaire’s comment cannot be honestly applied to you. 😀

  44. BU = FOOL

    The results from the Trinidad election have been released.

    You blasted idiot.

    The name been edited by BU to match the comment.


  45. So the results of the elections: PNM – 26, UNC-A – 15, COP – 0.

    I voted for the COP and I do not regret it. If elections were held again tomorrow, I would vote the same.

    As a young professional, voting only for the second time, I decided to go with the party that:

    ~ Seemed to have the most integrity. Both the PNM and the UNC have had a number of corruption scandals associated with their members and I am sure there are more to be uncovered.

    ~ Had a good mix of experienced candidates and fresh faces and moreover had a candidate for my area that I thought would best represent me and my fellow residents. Most Trinis do not vote with the candidate in mind, they vote for the party.

    ~ Had a unique take on the issues of importance (see highlights of their manifesto). The PNM and the UNC both had their chance/s (the PNM has had over 25 years of governance experience) and had mucked it up. Crime is increasing, food prices are exorbitant, the quality of health care and education is deteriorating.

    ~ Did not exploit race as an issue (I am of mixed descent, but look more like…)

    ~ Did not act like it was a divine right to govern T&T (PNM’s slogan “This is PNM country” and UNC’s “COP is splitting the vote” argument bordered on arrogance)

    The people have spoken and those that voted for the other parties apparently considered other perhaps, less lofty things. I have heard of comments like “dem can’t govern we” (pitting one race party against the other) and sensed people’s (both big business and the small man) fears about the loss of contracts, jobs and opportunities (whether rightfully gained in the first place or not).

    The first-past-the-poll system fails, like it always does, to make every vote count. More people voted against the PNM than for it. Less people voted in this elections than the last one. Less than half our total population decided the future of the whole.

  46. Trini when you voted for COP did you think that they had a realistic chance to win? Do you think there is room for a third party in T&T politics?


    HOLD THAT FINGER, Mr Prime Minister! Do not take the result of the Trinidad and Tobago election at face value. The temptation is great, I know, to forge ahead with a mid-December general election, but my advice is that you dig beneath the surface to better appreciate what happened in Trinidad a few days ago.

    First, it was not a third-term government seeking reelection in Trinidad and Tobago. A party by the name of the People’s National Movement (PNM) was going up for reelection but the slate of candidates that was presented to the people of Trinidad and the Cabinet that will be sworn in next week is, for all intents and purposes, a brand new government.

    Patrick Manning, though not a fan of mine, demonstrated true political skill and savvy when he dumped two-thirds of his non-performing ministers and back-benchers and brought about real and meaningful change from within.

    Analysts in Barbados need to be aware that more than two-thirds of the PNM’s slate of candidates were first-timers. They were not associated in any way with the morally, intellectually and ethically bankrupt group that presided over the two previous PNM administrations, under the same leader. A renowned pollster out of Jamaica suggested to Manning that he needed to dump some of the deadweight he had around him and he did just that, including the unceremonious “let go” of his deputy, Kenneth Valley.

    Some months ago, Mr Prime Minister, I wrote suggesting that several, indeed the vast majority, of your ministers were not performing and that your back-benchers were merely warming seats in Parliament and counting down to pension eligibility status. You are persisting with that group of non-performers and you will, I predict, suffer the same fate as Portia Simpson-Miller in Jamaica, who attempted to foist a tired and discredited team of ministers on the public of Jamaica for a fifth straight term.

    Patrick Manning triumphed in Trinidad on Monday because he did not rely on tricks and sleight of hand. He came straight with the voters of Trinidad and Tobago. He had unfinished business to conduct, but the team around him was not performing and he levelled with the voters of Trinidad and asked for one more opportunity to get it right. The voters gave him that opportunity on Monday night.

    You, Mr Prime Minister, have a bunch of ministers who have ceased to perform. Every social and economic sector in this country is under-performing.

    On the back of it we are told don’t worry about Hardwood, forget about Gems and keep hope alive for Edutech.

    Like Mr Manning, you have a treasury that is full of money, but you are not using that money to ease the strain on working Barbadians. Your Minister of State’s response to concerns about a skyrocketing cost of living is that people are hanging their hats too high and trying to live lives that are beyond their means. What arrant nonsense!

    Working Barbadians are finding it hard, if not impossible to make ends meet. Go on the industrial estates, the farmlands of St George, St Thomas and St Joseph, the department stores on Broad Street, the housekeeping departments of most hotels on the South and West Coast and identify for me the ordinary Barbadian that is living beyond his or her means. People are catching hell in this country and they need help!

    You are going to lose the next election, Mr Prime Minister, because you failed to fire ministers of Government who are disconnected from the people and from the reality of life in Barbados today. They are not representing their constituents and they are not performing in their ministries.

    You said in your party address two Sundays ago that you recognise the problem of high prices and you would endeavour to do something about it. We all know that was mere politicking. Nevertheless, your sidekick came one week later and said “do not blame the Government”; stop putting milk in your coffee; stop putting cheese between your two slices of bread; stop brushing your teeth with Colgate and use blue soap instead. This is the type of demeaning arrogance that Patrick Manning moved away from and which created the basis for his return to office. This is the type of arrant nonsense that will bring about the downfall of this Barbados Labour Party government. Mark my word!

  48. Reply to David’s “Trini when you voted for COP did you think that they had a realistic chance to win? Do you think there is room for a third party in T&T politics?”

    Not for a moment did I think that they would win. But I had hoped that they would form the Opposition. I suspect that many COP voters shared this thinking and it is telling that so many would vote for an intended “loser” (to use the PNM’s terminology).

    In its role as the Opposition, the UNC failed to serve the best interests of the people of Trinidad and Tobago. Its members got caught up in the petty aspects of politics – name-calling and all that – and forgot their primary function. At times, they appeared to block / stall the work of the Parliament just because they could. Where they could have sought compromises, they did not. Where they could have offered solutions to thorny issues and problems, they did not.

    It pains me that so many people could have still voted for the UNC-A, knowing its track record (new name, same party), knowing that its leaders at the time (Panday and Warner) have been under a cloud of suspicion concerning corruption. There is no doubt in my mind that the race card won the UNC-A the position of Opposition.

    There is room for a third party, but only in as much as it eventually takes the political space occupied by another.

  49. trini we must confess that we are somewhat confused. To many looking in from outside it is generally accepted that voting in T&T takes place along racial lines. We even got this admission from Patrick Manning during the campaign. Why would you and the 100,000 Trinigonians who voted for COP not have anticipated that it would have split the Indian vote? The result therefore is what you have gotten.

  50. A great deal of Trini politics is about race. Yet, the realities of Trini life are largely not. Regardless of race, we are all plagued by the similar woes, be it crime, poor health care, unreliable water and electricity supply…

    Class, of course, is another issue altogether.

    You can never predict what happens when people wake up on the morning of elections, what takes place in the solace of the voting booth.

    There were so many people on the voter’s list who were undecided up to the day before / day of elections.

    Those people could have made a difference if apathy did not get the better of them (the campaign to encourage Trinis to just come out and vote was incredibly weak).

    The COP support base (at least from my own observations) was not Indian in nature, but crossed race and class lines. I cannot see how people can deny the role that a party like this can play in bridging the divide.

    To answer your question simply (and to stick some cool non-regional poetry in):

    “Hope is the thing with feathers
    That perches in the soul,
    And sings the tune without the words,
    And never stops at all”

    (E. Dickinson)

    Hope when Barbados has its turn at elections, that you may have learned something from the Trini experience: focus on the important issues – national not personal, do not let race and class dominate, overcome voter apathy.

    Think this is the end of my commentary on Trinbago Elections 2007. What is done, is done. Trinis just have to wait, watch, listen, speak up.

  51. Trini what does UNC-A mean? Trini you must admit if UNC-A? and COP were united PNM would have lost. Are Indians the majority race in Trinidad and by how much?

  52. Don’t beleieve the spin written by Trini.

    Cop is in effect an indian party made up of primarily indian voters and a sprinkling of afro and white and mixed group persons as window dressing,and in a desperate attempt to win the afro trini vote.

    Dookeran is just as racist as Panday, evidenced by who he surrounded himself with – Devant Maraj,Hulsie Baggan (a candidate), and Sat Maraj.

    Those 3 persons have been extremely foul in their prnouncements against afro trinis -for e.g. sat maraj says if his daughter marries an afro trini – he would disown her.
    His grandson a police officer if you please, was just acquitted for pulling out a gun and blowing out the brain of a 16 year old school boy at a party because he said the boy bumped into him.The indian Judge over and over kept telling the members of the jury before they deliberated what a good boy he (Maraj grandson) is.

    Hulsie bhaggan – a COP candidate – 3 or 4 years ago accused afro trini men of raping indian women in Caroni.
    For those who don’t know Caroni is a part of Trinidad which is exlusively inhabited by indians.
    When she made that charge – Huslsie bhaggan was at the time a Member of Parliament for Caroni for the UNC Party.

    It was later discovered that the rapists were in fact indian men wearing afro wigs – Hulsie baggan never apologised to the afro trini men who were beaten up or suffered by that statement.

    As for Devant maraj – I won’t know where to start – in one word – that man is a RACIST – he hates persons of african descent.His latest remark on a COP platform was to warn the indians in Chaguanas that the PNM was going to build houses in their (indian) areas and”all a dem” meaning the niggers will come down and live in their districts – so he was warning them to object to ‘dem people’ from laventille coming in.

    Yet he (Devant Maraj) spoke on Winston Dookeran’s platform and was reported in the papers many times as having close talks with the COP leader.

    Even Winston Dookeran when he spoke on the campaign in prodominantly indian districts changed his Mr ‘nice guy’ image and descended into a few choice racial remarks against afro trinis.

    Note,a large percentage of the COP candidates were former UNC candidates and UNC members.

    Let no one fool you Dookeran could not even win his seat because he is a hopeless shadow of Panday – Yes there is no evidence he stole public funds – but the evidence is underneath he thinks just like most of those UNC and ‘Panday- like’ politicians where race is concerned.

    I am glad he lost big time – NOT A DAMN SEAT FOR THEM.


  53. Anonymous~your comment fits what is our understanding of the situation in T&T. If what we are saying is correct it raises the concerns which many Barbadians have regarding the rising Indo-Guyanese population in Barbados. Trinidad is a good example of a mature society where Indians, Blacks, Chinese, Syrians and many other nationalities reside but up to now they continue to struggle with harmony between the races.nationalities.

    In Barbados we continue with an open door policy and no planning!

  54. My sentiments exactly David!

    Pray tell me what is the possibility of the indian guyanese coming to barbados living in harmony with afro bajans when the indians and africans in trinidad and in Guyana and in Fiji and in Surinam, have been living side by side for centuries – and race relations have never been worse.

    Indians Guyanese just waiting to accumulate lil money,get their bajan residency or citizenship – and then SHITE pon bajans.

    For the most part with few exceptions INDIANS GENERALLY DONOT LIKE PERSONS OF AFRICAN DESCENT – They are taught from young not to spoil their race by marrying with a person of african descent.

    Note, I didnot say black,because strangely although you will find some indians that are blacker than midnight they don’t see themselves as black.

    They tend to do whatever it takes to get ahead,so as you would have seen here in barbados – the indo guyanese who back in their country Guyana – reviled and discriminated against afro guyanese – yet they will come to barbados and do the lowest of act with an afro bajan just to stay in barbados.

    My only hope is that David Thompson has plans to send these people back to Guyana – they must not at any cost be allowed to stay here – labour shortage or no labour shortage.

    Immigration officers need to be increased,and every day raids need to be done with fines be given to bajans habouring them.

    Also immigration officers found colluding with these illegals to circumvent the law should be dealt with harshly also.

    We are talking about the future and stability of our country,and bajan men love for ‘long hair women’ – should not cause us to sacrifice our country – because of lust.

    Barbados is at the crossroads – and desperately needs ‘Tough Leadership’ – right now!

  55. Oh dear me!

    Lord come soon.

    The pressure is not even on yet but the divide lines are being erected.

    Why cant I explain to Anonymous that these incomers are arriving here for the very same reason why we proudly admire our sons and daughters flying the coop, and sending their loving remittances back to a grateful Bim from US,Canada and UK.

    How can we boast that our children are prospering so in a foreignland, yet deny that same opportunity to our less fortunate Caricom citizens.

    Double standards will bring double shame upon our proud and supposedly educated country.

    Embrace change and the power it gives to the underprivileged.

    Be like Christ.

    Love thy neighbour.

  56. All I will say to you straight talk is that bundle of rubbish you just spout there is what got the african descendents where they are right now around the world – AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HEAP.

    My information is not for people like you – who probabaly got some reason to maintain that satus quo – however I am speaking to those who have an open mind and are concerned about the future direction of this country.

    Not for people who bread buttered on both sides with ham and cheese pon top.

  57. Straight Talk we have discussed this issue at length on previous topics…just do a search using key words ‘ immigration’ or ‘Guyanese’. We totally disagree with you. When Barbadians migrated to foreign lands in the 50’s and 60’s they went to countries which could absorb them both economically and socially.

  58. David:

    Barbados is also absorbing these immigrants econonomically and socially.

    The very fact of their being here and not being a burden on the state testifies to their economic contribution to the country taking the opportunities being available to them which are not being filled for whatever reason by our own workforce.

    I see no physical signs of social unrest regarding the Guyanese influx.
    Admittedly I hear the stories of crime levelled against them, but few of these cases reach court, and in those that do usually involves illegal immigrants which I admit is a major problem for Barbados, not Guyana. I am all for stricter enforcement and inspection.

    I am old enough to remember the discrimination levelled towards our people when we emigrated for a bright new future in lands of opportunity.

    The racism we found there was born out of the same irrational fear I sense from some of your contributors and as time passed and experience gained those who persevered through that wicked treatment earned respect and gained acceptance.

    In fact, through their hard work and attitude, dare I say “Pride and Industry” they changed their host nations’ whole attitude towards multiculturism and mutual respect.

    So, show me examples of Bajans being unfaired or socially troubled by legal Guyanese, and we can discuss this issue on facts, not on xenophobic innuendo.

  59. Straight Talk several commenters including BU have cited countries which is struggling with race relations i.e blacks and indo-Indian mainly, and we have been consistent in advising the powers that be that migration to our small country must be managed to ensure we maintain a balance. If that makes us xenophobic so be it.

  60. I thought that my contribution would end with my last entry, but reading what others have written after me, have compelled me to add more to the mix.

    With reference to Anonymous’ take on my “spin.” I shared my own justifications for voting for COP. I am sure that other Trinis can offer just as compelling reasons for voting for the other parties and can cite shocking / if not appalling attitudes and policies of the opposing parties and their candidates. Every person thinks his/her point of view is the right one.

    David, to answer your question – the population of T&T (%) in 2000, was as follows:

    African Descent – 37.5
    East Indian Descent – 40.0
    White – 0.6
    Chinese – 0.3
    Mixed – 20.5
    Other – 0.3
    Not stated – 0.8

    Source: http://www.cso.gov.tt

    As you can see, with a total population of approximately 1.3 million, it has made for and and will continue to be a tight race when people vote according to race.

    The UNC-A was merely and alliance of the UNC (an Indo-Trinidadian oriented party) with other small politically-conscious groups in Trinidad and Tobago. It was formed in the last few months leading up to this last elections.

    I prefaced my statement about the composition of the COP, with “at least from my own observations.” I never felt the COP to be an “Indian” party and I can say that with all honesty as a person of mixed descent – Indian, Black, Chinese.

    Of course, others are sure to disagree with that.

    From a campaign strategy perspective, it is understandable, that the votes gained by the COP, were taken from the UNC. The PNM was formed in 1956, it is a professed Afro-Trinidadian oriented party (even Anonymous cannot deny that). Most of its supporters have been “PNM from the womb” and say that they will be so until “the tomb.” It would have been very hard for a fledgling party like the COP to easily encourage long-standing PNM representatives to “cross the floor,” change the voting stance of persons that have voted for the party their entire lives. The UNC, however, (the pre-cursor of the UNC-A) was formed in the mid 1990s and perhaps its membership would have had less of a visceral tie to the party.

    To my knowledge (again, another prefacing statement), the COP, as all parties ought to have done, targeted its campaign towards all Tribagonians, supporters of the PNM and UNC alike. Perhaps if the COP sticks around long enough for the next elections, changes up its line-up (all candidates are not created equal Anonymous), it can make significant in-roads into the PNM support-base too. I am totally fed-up with race politics!

    With that being said, the PNM is a minority government. IF the COP and the UNC-A had joined forces (which to me, and many others, would only have been MINIMALLY acceptable, if the UNC-A’s corrupt leadership by Panday and Warner had gone by the wayside), the votes would have amounted to some 20 seats, leaving the PNM with 21. As it stands, those of us, who voted COP remain with absolutely NO REPRESENTATION in our country’s Parliament (but as was pointed out numerous times, we voted so).

    Interesting statistics: “The UNC-A got 194,425 votes (29.73 per cent) and the COP 148,041 (22.64 per cent) on Monday, a combined total of 342,466, 52.38 per cent of the total 653,800 votes cast, seven per cent more than the PNM.”

    Source: http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=161230770

    But enough about T&T!

    What really encouraged me to write some more was the vitriol that Anonymous has spewed concerning Indo-Caribbeans: “For the most part with few exceptions INDIANS GENERALLY DONOT LIKE PERSONS OF AFRICAN DESCENT.”

    I wonder whether Anonymous knows and likes any Indo-Caribbean person at all. In my own experience, problems in Trinidad and Tobago have found ferment amongst people who have little to no REAL and MEANINGFUL interaction with other ethnicities (it is entirely possible to stay insular in a cosmopolitan society) and stems from ignorance. This has been exploited by political parties as a convenient rallying point (fear of THE OTHER, like beings must stick together) and perpetuated by the media.

    The social, political and economic problems that the European Union countries (always admired by us post-colonial countries…) have attributed to immigration, stem from lack of planning (I agree David!) and a failure to implement policies concerning cultural sensitivity training (for the host countries and the incoming immigrants).

    Reading about Barbados’ so-called issues with Indo-Guyanese immigrants (skilled or not) and Trinidad’s own hullabaloo about Chinese labourers makes me wonder about our readiness as a region for the implementation of the CSME’s policies on the free mobility of labour, the exchange of skills. Some Caribbean countries desperately need to supplement their work-force in certain sectors. Will those of us who migrate to other islands in the hopes of making a contribution (and a dollar) and do not look Black, Indian, etc. (look like the majority group/s) face the hostility of people like Anonymous? Are White, “educated,” persons in management positions in multi-national corporations operating in the Caribbean, the only acceptable migrant group?

    Caribbean people (regardless of colour) are not exactly welcomed with open arms where ever we go. Why should we feel a-how about such treatment when we cannot even manage tolerance at home towards fellow human beings?! (Way to go Straight Talk!)

  61. Pingback: On COP’s Chances and Third Parties (After the Fact…) « Mango and Mosquito

  62. Pingback: Final Words on Elections, New Thoughts on Race Relations in the Region « Mango and Mosquito

  63. Correction: Trini last entry began with a response to Puzzled concerning the meaning of UNC-A and the population composition of Trinidad and Tobago (not David as previously indicated).

  64. My Dear Trini

    Your above post which is riddled with inaacuracies can perhaps fool some bajans who are naive,and have failed to examine what is going on in neighbouring countries with plural societies and even an examination of similar countries further afield.

    First of all I quite distinctly remember reading in the Guardian newspaper about 3 or 4 so years ago of the most recent census taken which put the afro and indo population at about .7 of a percent difference between the 2 ethnic groups.

    It was something like 43.x% african and 44.x %indian.

    This stood out in my mind because I can quite clearly remember there were comments in some quarters as to how come the mixed group percentage had increased significantly – yet it affected only the afro trini group and not as significantly the indo trini group.

    This is a relevant observation given that in TnT the majority of mixing takes place between indians and africans – with the result being known as a Dougla.

    Secondly,don’t just glibly tell us that”other groups can cite appalling attitudes of the other parties” – you cite them for us if you are going to use that argument as a defence.

    The things I have mentioned of the Cop persons and the UNC (ie their blatant hatred and disparaging remarks against blacks), cannot be said of the PNM.
    So much so that afro trinis have accused Patrick Manning and consequently the PNM party of ‘always pandering and catering to the indo trins’ e.g the caroni land give away and the largest severance package ever to public sector workers – ie those said caroni workers.

    You say the PNM is an afro-professed party – SO-O -O -O – what is the UNC and COP?Not indian based parties with an UNC ’til I die attitude.

    Even so this ‘afro-professed’ party as you call it from the ealy days of its founder Eric williams, took a virtually unknown,semi- illiterate coconut vendor (kamulladin Mohhamed) and brought him into the party – giving him senior cabinet positions. Right now his niece is a deputy leader of the PNM,even though in the past she has called Manning a dictator,and her brother was a candidate for the COP.

    Added to that even to this day indians are welcomed in that party and are given high positions in the PNM party and in the cabinet.

    Also the question of a miniority government – who is that brave person who could look into the hearts and minds of these COP voters to say that if an accomodation was sought between the UNC and COP – that some of the COP voters would not have? :
    a) Refused to vote for that UNC/COP alliance or
    b) Voted for the PNM?

    The biggest laugh of all was that remark by you that:”in my own experience problem in TnT have found ferment with persons with no real or meaningful interaction with other ethnicities”

    My friend tell that joke to the man on the moon o.k. – afro and indo trinis live cheek by jowl with each other in trinidad and are intimately aware of each other – hence this high percentage of Douglas – much to the consternation of those purists indians – who abhor mixing (especially of indian and african).

    Maybe you with your proud banner of ‘indian,chineese and african mixture’ – might be the one not understanding the relations between the races in that country.

    Quite simply your argument has no merit.

    Finally I must reject and point out that’ the Trinidad hullaballo about chineese contract workers’ is most definetely not the same as Barbados’ concern about the huge influx of immigrant labour ,and in particular the indo guyanese persons.

    For a start any afro guyanese can tell you of the discrimination and difficulties they suffer daily at the hands of the Basdeo Jagdeo administration and the Indo population who are a clear majority in Guyana.

    Secondly Trinidad is probably 5 or 6 times larger than Barbados,with endless resources and no scarity of precious limited resources like water and land etc.

    Our peculiar issues are clear for all to see.

    Like I said at the begining it is clear your response is meant to fudge and confuse and perhaps even convince those readers who don’t have the facts or have not made any great attempt to study the issue carefully.

    To attempt to create a parallel between bajans migrating to larger countries (e.g. UK and USA) in their dozens and hundreds unlike the tens of thousands of guyenese in this tiny little island – is bogus to say the least.

  65. Pingback: Rational Response « Mango and Mosquito

  66. David

    Can you please enlightenus if this mosquito and Mango is a blog site?

    Also why are listing their adoption of your posts as new comments?

    Iam not quite clear on these headings that appear on some of the subjects – yet don’t seem to be a new site.

  67. Anonymous~it seems to us that trini has his/her blog and has elected to transfer the discussion to their blog by ‘pinging’ BU. Readers to BU are essentially being invited to trini’s blog. Its a way bloggers generate traffic to their sites.

    Go and get them anonymous :-). Seriously this is an important topic an we intend to comeback to it again.

  68. Dear David (and others at Barbados Underground):

    Many thanks for allowing me to add to BU’s discussion on T&T Elections.

    My apologies for the pings back to my own blog (mango…). I just started it last week and was unfamiliar with the “ping” function. I have subsequently tried to disable it.

    Hopefully there should be no future, unwanted references.

    To all who responded in some way (positively or negatively) to my comments – thanks for keeping the dialogue open and interesting. I definitely learned several new things about Barbados and other people’s concerns about elections, race, labour etc.

    Keep up the great work BU!

  69. trini we never objected to you pinging BU and there is no good reason that you should want to turn-off the pinging future that we aware off in your case. What you can do is to update your profile info so that when you comment on other wordpress blogs your name would have the hyperlink :-). That way you can visit other WordPress blogs make your comments and visitors from those sites can link to your blog by following your username.

    If you insist that you want to turn-off the pinging feature you can go to your dashboard and select Manage>Post>Edit and check the options on the right-side of the screen.

  70. David

    there is an interesting article which you just must read.

    Go into Moving Back to Jamaica blog and click the link to Trinidad & Tobago News Blog – where there is an article on Hinduism and racism.

    The article and comments are interesting – it’s truly a revealing and fascinating look at race relations between Indians and Africans in TnT.

    Thanks,here is the link.


  71. Greetings!Thank you for dropping in on our site. We appreciate your interest in what we have to present, and we hope that we will find similar interests in your posts and presentations.May the link between our sites foster an increase in political awareness in our region, and may it foster the tolerance and respect that Caribbean neiighbours should exercise with each other.Oloye Orawale Oranfe

Leave a comment, join the discussion.