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What Price Journalistic Integrity?

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blue-horizon.jpgOn the news last night we listened with interest to Chairman Peter Odle of the Barbados Tourism Authority who expressed that our tourist industry should not become consumed with measuring arrivals in terms of numbers but should switch to average dollar spend per tourist. He cited the example of Dubai where their tourist arrivals far exceed Barbados but our average dollar spend was considerably higher. We would have liked to ask Odle if Barbados pursues this strategy how would it change the current tourism model which we use in Barbados. We assume that the higher spending tourists would demand a certain type of accommodation, to use one example. Where would this put the smaller hotels and apartments which cater to the ‘regular’ tourist. Bare in mind that many small tourism plants and Barbadian homeowners were encouraged to invest in the tourism plant for CWC 2007. Where would Odle’s vision place these small operators?

Anyway, here is Adrian Loveridge’s latest submission which continues to expose the smoke and mirror approach on how the media in Barbados publishes statistics about tourist arrivals:

On the 24th October 2007, the Barbados Advocate published an article under the heading ‘Tourist arrivals for 2007 increases’. It was stated ‘There was a big jump in both long stay and cruise ship visitor arrivals to Barbados for the period January to July this year, according to official figures’. It added the Barbados Statistical Service (BBS) has reported ‘a whopping 18 percent increase’ in stay-over visitors for the first seven months of 2007.

It went on to state (verbatim) ‘The BBS said that the long stay during the review months increased 61,946 or 18.2 per cent when compared to the corresponding year for 2006′. On seeing the Advocate report, I requested on two occasions from the BBS, confirmation of these figures. Both requests were acknowledged (numbers 35 and 36) but after 9 days, they have still not sent anything to confirm they were in fact correct.

I have now extracted the actual official figures for the period January – June (6 months) and this show an increase of 7,794 long stay visitors or a 2.7% increase, totalling 295,742 persons.A far cry from 402,209 long stay visitors that the Advocate stated for the seven months including July.

Did we really have 106,467 long stay visitors in that single month?

Independent journalist, Pat Hoyos, has today published online at the Broad Street Journal, that in FACT the real increase in long stay visitors to Barbados for the first nine months of 2007 was only 2%. Mr Hoyos also quite rightly points out an increase in visitor spending, but this figure is almost meaningless unless it is inflation adjusted.Again, in fact, unless it is, it simply means visitors actually spend less rather than more.

I believe, the Barbados Advocate, should print a retraction of this total erroneous and misleading article.

Adrian Loveridge

We encourage Barbadians to debate the issues, especially stakeholders in the tourism sector. Maybe Adrian can encourage some of his partners in the sector to logon to the blogs to have a debate on the industry which is the lifeblood of our country.

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61 responses to “What Price Journalistic Integrity?”

  1. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    I have nothing further to add and my position about the accuracy of statistics in Barbados is confirmed by this and other articles. So again I say “I rest my case”!

    Just read to-days Nation News and look at the dumb comments coming from the likes of Mr. Alvin Jemmott and Roseanne Meyers. And look at my post on these comments.

    As far as the Advocate Newspaper is concerned I would not waste my time waiting for them to retract lies as this is the bench mark for this once proud Newspaper.

    I think that the Central Bank Governor Dr. Marion Williams should be the one asked to explain herself. But then I am of the belief that Williams and the Advocate are tarred with the same brush so why waste time.

  2. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    The Advocate is so poor a newspaper, that these articles on BU and BFP are actually doing them a favour. We bloggers, by pointing out these errors and weaknesses, may be giving the erroneous impression that better can be expected from the Advocate and Nation.

    I call on BU and BFP to let sleeping dogs die and then let the dead bury their dead…
    Continue to show what 21st century news is all about BU.

  3. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Bush Tea you cannot encourage the Mainstream media in this slackness. And to be fair to the Nation News they at least covered the story and statistics accurately.

    What I find appalling is the the absolute nonsense spoken by Alvin Jemmott and Roseanne Myers. I would expect better from people in their positions.

    Why should Bloggers, Adrian Loveridge and Patrick Hoyos have to expose this crap? And more importantly how can the Central Bank Governor be involved. This is a bloody outrage don’t you think?

  4. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    The Advocate is at it yet again!

    Page 4 -Wednesday 31st october 2007

    headline:

    ‘More Virgin flights from December this year’

    Readers not better informed would naturally get the impression that Virgin were adding flights and capacity.

    When in fact they are moving the UK departure point from Gatwick to Heathrow

    It is so easy to see how the general public are misled into thinking our tourism industry is doing so much better than it actually is.

    It also does not help when the Minister of Tourism boasts in Parliament about flights that no longer operate.

  5. Wishing in Vain Avatar
    Wishing in Vain

    It seems like it is build it up tourism day!!!!

  6. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Adrian I saw that about Virgin but elected to let it pass but I am glad you brought it up.

    When will the Tourism industry in Barbados face reality and deal with the PROBLEMS by telling the people the truth?

    The first step from my perspective is that all of the players have to put s stop to the nonsense like what we are seeing with statistics and crap that are unsupported and correct the problems.

    I can well see why some hotels distance themselves from the BHTA. These people are jokers and discredit the product!

  7. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    It also does NOT help when the industry ‘leaders’ throw out casual comments about ‘average night stays’ and projected arrival figures when they cannot either recall or have previous year’s data close-at-hand.

    It discredits the entire industry.

  8. David Avatar
    David

    Adrian do you have a comment on the view of Peter Odle on the need to focus on increase spend and not number of tourist. What statistics are available which can allow us to break-out the average numbers by hotel, originating country, length of stay etc. We are weary when we hear numbers being tossed around because mean averages can have the effect of distorting real behaviour/trends.

  9. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    This lack of journalistic integrity about FALSE Tourism statistics let us not forget includes the offfice of the Governor of the Central Bank. Who claimed that “Robust” tourism arrivals was responsible for the Barbados economic growth of approximately 4.3%.

    This is a very serious matter and the Bank Governor has to be implicated in whether she is a willing partner to this flagrant propaganda.

    The BTA and BHTA have unequivocably and on the public record in the Nation News shot down the claims of both the Advocate and the Bank Governor that the tourism Industry can be held responsible for any significant growth in the Barbados ecomony. Is it not time for the Governor of the Central Bank, and the BLP Government to come out and tell the truth about this incomprehensible lie? When Barbadians cannot believe the numbers and claims coming from the Central Bank Governor as posted in the Advocate who can they believe? Is this how far corruption has permeated the honorable system of a once proud Democracy? Shame on all of you in the BLP! And where is the Reverend in all of this?

    The Advocate on this occasion has shown that it is the “Whitemans” voice of lies!

  10. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    David…

    While I may disagree on some of the the things Mr Odle says, I do agree on the subject of visitor spending.

    But it goes deeper that that.

    The average spending per visitor has to be related to what they are spending it on and where that ‘product’ is originiating.

    A simple example is if a visitor buys souvenirs, where are they made?

    Same as food and all other consumables, if they are made overseas, we are re-exporting the foreign currency earnings.

    Also with the larger hotel groups,its possible a substantial proportion of the earned revenue may never reach the shores of Barbados, as it is paid offshore.

    Regarding the average visitor stay quoted on TV recently by Mr Odle of 11 (something) nights. The last time I heard this figure quoted, it was 7 nights.

    It makes a huge difference.

    Brits and Europeans historically stay longer than 7 nights, and North Americans about that duration.

    Barbados’s national marketing agency (BTA) spends more than Britian on promoting the tourism aspect of the country.
    I believe that money could be spent more effectively.

  11. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    On the issue of spending I really do see that as a big problem for Barbados and MOST destinations. And here is why!

    I personally cannot see Barbados competing with other Duty Free destinations like the US Virgin islands and a few others in the region and outside of the region.

    Barbados is by no means a Duty Free destination some of what they sell you can buy at the same price at the retail level of your own country of origin. Another thing is we are dealing with a different clientele today many of who could care less about Royal Doulton, fine china, cutlerly etc.

    Personally I think Barbados can hold its own when it comes to fine restaurants and were the truth known visitors have no problem paying for good food.

    However, the high cost of living in Barbados has to be reflected in Duty free products etc and believe me 75% of visitors are thrifty to being cheap even at home. Most Travellers are knowledgeable, looking for value at reasonable or good prices and much of what they want they buy ONLY IN DESTINATIONS that give them true Duty Free prices.

    Tours, water sports, deep sea fishing etc will generate some money but not BIG money.

    Look at most of the filthy wealthy who buy or build mansions in Barbados. How many of them buy furnishings as an example locally? I have it from reliable sources that most of these people have furnishings and upscale large appliances shipped down and some bring or send their own interior decorator. People like Dr. Edghills wife who was really good at what she did certainly commanded some of these peoples money but she was in the minority.

    I have no answer to how or what you can do to make visitors spend more money because most are there looking for sun, sea and social activity. Many of these people prefer going to ALL INCLUSIVES with few going into the main shopping districts.

    Many of these people take the position anything I need I can get just as cheap as at home and if something goes wrong with the product I can take it back to the retail outlet get it exchanged or money refunded with no hassle like having to ship it back to Bim etc.

    I would bet you were it possible to do so if you removed the revenue tourists spent at places like Cave Shepherd it would have little impact on their bottom line.

  12. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Here is another point to show what I mean.

    I was watching TV last night and here are Canadians going over the USA border by the thousands and spending millions in the USA to get the biggest bang for their Canadian dollar.

    They did this because Canadian stores were slow to drop their retail prices because of the rising dollar. Canadian retailers are now re-acting by reducing costs significantly.

    Shoppers are very discerning and fickle people. And in todays world they are not going to travel thousands of miles and hassle themselves buying what they can get at home just as cheap.

    Another factor is people are becoming very wary of counterfeit products and they have a perception that they are more likely to be taken on these in third world countries than their own.

  13. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Odle is becoming like the others at BTA and BHTA.

    In a rich rich rich country like Dubai does anyone really think they give a shit or care about what Tourist spend? Plus Dubai unlike most winter destinations in the Caribbean are catering to a different, TOTALLY different clentele.

    I think Odle had better get use to the fact that he had BETTER FOCUS on number of arrivals as that is the maint thrust of where revenue will come from (1) Air fares, Accomodation and selective spending.

    Maybe Barbados might have to look at Gambling Casinos and high end brothels if they want significant spending.

  14. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    On this blog a few days ago the Blog Manager/Administrator asked or said the same thing I want to know and that is. why is Odle and others focusing on Foreign Exchange only.

    Barbados needs industries that provide SUSTAINABLE employment for those who want to work. And industries that pay wages in line with the realities of what it cost a person to live in Barbados. Saying unemployment is at 4% and given the recent fiasco about the inaccuracy of statistics dealing with tourism we dont now know how accurate the unemployment numbers are what good is low unemployment if people are being paid wages that are totally inadequate?

    This is more smoke and mirrors BS.

    Let us run in practical and hypothetical terms with Odles wishes and see where it leads us.

    Let us ay tourist numbers are reduced by 50,000 but the remaining are wealthy people who has the money to be big spenders. Here is how I see that unfolding in the REAL world.

    First and foremost the hotels losing the 50,000 tourists would fould up and go out of business. The next consideration is this, the theory that the wealthy spend money is in many cases a myth. What do wealthy people who already HAVE EVERYTHING will find in Barbados that they need to buy and dont already have? That is probably one of the reasons visitors to Dubai do not spend because most are the creme de la creme of the wealthy, that already have everything. Have you seen the opulent, luxurious hotels they have in Dubai? They make the Crane and Sandy Lane look like Hovels! Obviously then Dubai is catering to MAINLY the wealthy but are not enjoying any big spending according to Odle.

    The next thing to think about is this, let us assume the smaller numbers in Barbados are spenders like Odle wants. Here is another scenario to think about. With the 50,000 less visitors the remaining big spenders would need less people at Cave Shepherd and all the other stores they frequent to serve them. Is that not so? Less people buying more, equate to less help needed in most retail outlets. Therefore the wealthy will then be adding more burden to the unemployment situation.

    As I have said before Barbados wants to go down the wrong road in Tourism. It is the masses that keep you going. Look at Mexico, Jamaica, Cuba, the Dominican Republic etc.

    Barbados thought BIG UP hotels, condos and golf courses were the answer. Well I know for a fact and others tell me this has not happened. Most of the upscale hotels in Barbados are not making any big money and occupancy levels are certainly not where they should be or where the owners want them to be considering the size of their investment. My question is why? I have a pretty good idea why but Barbadians continue to put their heads in the sand! Barbados has nothing better or different these days to offer visitors that other similar destinations dont have and at far cheaper prices. I think Odle and all in the Tourist Industry had better start realizing they need to learn how to deal with COMPETITION because that is ENEMY NUMBER 1 FOR BIM.

    Another thing that makes me laugh is this, GOvernment officials and Barbadians still insist in being their own worse enemies.

    Were I in authority I would tell that Lynch to get “stuffed” and I would neither be proud or stubborn to not go to a man like Adrian Loveridge and hire him as a Consultant to the Government. We all have faults but you know what I really do not give two shits about, anyones faults so long as they have the answers to what ails the problem I need fixing and get results.

    Most destinations in the world eventually like water find their own level. People who travel now have myriad options, quaint and unusual destinations they want to see, different recreational preferences and the list goes on. Those travellers who want the creme de la creme of resort pampering go to places most of us barely know of.

    Odle and the entire bunch at BTA and BHTA need to take their heads out of the sand and deal with reality.

  15. Linchh Avatar
    Linchh

    The comments on the tourism sector by the Governor of the Central Bank in her report on the performance of the Barbados economy during the period January to September 2007 presented a picture that does not stand up to careful scrutiny. Dr. Williams stated that:

    – “After the reduction in real
    tourism value added in the first quarter
    of the year, the industry regained
    momentum in both the second and third
    quarters, and grew by an estimated
    3.1% in the first nine months of the year.
    After declining by nearly 7% in the first
    quarter, visitor arrivals showed a spike
    of 13.6% during the second quarter of
    2007, relative to an increase of 8.4% in
    the comparable period of 2006.” It appears however, that the actual increase in visitor arrivals for the period January to September 2007 over the corresponding period in 2006 was only 13,150, and of that increase 10,480 was contributed by arrivals during the month of April 2007. The figures for that month are particularly interesting since most of the increase was contributed by countries which are not traditional sources of visitors to Barbados. In short, there is need for a careful analysis on the impact of the Cricket World Cup 2007 on the performance of the tourism sector of Barbados, in view of the fact that this was the centrepiece of recent tourism planning.

    It is difficult for anyone with the capacity to analyse economic data to accept the conclusions of the Governor of the Central Bank in the absence of hard supporting information, and probably intentionally ambiguous assertions. A glaring example of this is the Governor’s reference to “real tourism value added”, when the percentage changes to which she refers are clearly those relating to visitor arrivals. Further to make a link between a 3.1% increase in visitor arrivals and a 4.5% in Gross Domestic Product is open to serious question from anyone who understands the process of national economic production.

    Sadly, the problem in Barbados is that the private sector seems to have no interest in compiling essential data to measure and plan its activities. It is condemned, therefore to waste its time quibbling over questionable official statistics.

    It is very difficult for the general public to accept statements from officials when supporting data is either contrived, or not available in a timely manner.

  16. Why why Avatar
    Why why

    No name you make comments about the tourism industry but you really do not seem to know squat about the subject> I have watched and seen you and others heap scorn on Mr Odle from mango bay and others at the BHTA and BTA. I commend AdrianLoveridge in his honesty a few post earlir on spend.. while Adrian always writes whats on his mind he had to agree with Mr Odle on the point he was making.

    No Name what I would suggest to you is to go next time the BTA has a consultation I am sure they will let you in see what they are doing then make your comments. I agree somewhat with the your comment on BHTA changing opinions on what is likely to be a good season or not but ask any hotelier the predictions are made on future booking predictions and these can change overnight. And yes the threat of a hurricane on any part of the Caribbean has a ripple effect on bookings.. you indicated that this is not so but you are wrong. Take the year after Ivan for example we saw one of the worst Septembers and we still have a hard time recovering. People say what New Orleans dealt with.

    For you information the BTA and BHTA have good research departments who produce stats on a regular basis check it out Give them a call…. I did and was impressed.

  17. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    My apologies to you sir as you obviously stand as I do for honesty, treansparency and decency. All benchmarks that we adults must consistently support if we are to be role models to our children, the children of others and our grand children.

  18. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    Why Why…

    Fair is fair.
    Despite all Mr Odle’s commitments, his Mango Bay Hotel is consistently among the top rated properties on TripAdvisor in terms of guest satisfaction.
    Currently, Mango Bay is number 2 out of around 80 rated hotels.
    To put this in perspective, Sandy Lane is # 23 and The Savannah # 49.

    Yes! He may have excellent management and staff, but someone has to be responsible for directing them.

    In terms of certain statistics supplied by the Ministry of Tourism and BTA, I still think a lot of this originally comes from the BBS.
    The BHTA can only supply data and information based on its membership and their williness to share it.

  19. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Why Why you have missed my point. And I am saying this to you with respect!

    First and foremost it was not Odle that said the hurricane season impacted the decrease in Tourism this year. I never said that! Use your head!

    A month or so ago Sue Springer and Alvin Jemmott of the BHTA said in the Nation News that they had experienced an 8% decline in Tourist arrivals for I THINK but this is not important to the point. September and October. Some hotels had done better than others but they were 8% down over last year 06. That is what was in the Nation News.

    Jemmott used a school regulation change in the UK and the Hurricane season for the decline and I stand by my statement that it was a stupid thing to say. The hurricane season I believe begins in June why were the months June to Sept not down. They specifically said Sept and October.

    The hurricane season is EVERY YEAR and as far as I know EVERY year storms go through the Caribbean. Why then the decline for September and October or whatever months it was is being blamed on the hurricane season THIS YEAR? Why did the hurricane season not effect the arrivals in 06, 05 etc. Did storms not go through the Caribbean in 06?

    Another thing and you should know this being a Bajan the traveller to Barbados stands the least chance of being impacted by a storm for Christ sake in Barbados because of its Geographic location to the other islands. Barbados is the most Easterly in the Caribbean region and the last time they had a storm was back I believe in 55 or 56. That is 52 or 53 years ago.

    I am not interested in Odles business venture or how successful it is that is his business just as it is the businesses of those who were in the tourist business and are now broke or those like Sandy Lane etc not doing well. But here is the point.

    Odle’s comments re numbers in tourist arrivals are not as important as how much they spend is also dumb. It is equally dumb to compare Dubai to Barbados. And I am not going to explain this to you because I already have done enough explaining.

    As for the statistics disgrace THEIR IS NO EXCUSE FOR THIS AT ALL ESPECIALLY WHEN IT HAS TO DO WITH WHAT BARBADOS ITS GOVERNMENT AND THE CENTRAL BANK GOVERNOR SAYS IS THEIR BIGGEST FOREIGN EXCHANGE EARNER. “TOURISM”. IT IS BLOODY WELL UNACCEPTABLE. JUST AS UNACCEPTABLE AS THE BANK GOVERNOR USING SPURIOUS STATISTICS TO JUSTIFY ECONOMIC GROWTH. If this type of unreliable and unproferssional statistics and important economic information has reached this level in Barbados what other statistical data is equally flawed? Like for instance unemployment, crime, poverty etc?

    How can responsible people in responsible positions go on the public record and throw around numbers and compare them to the year before and then admit they have no numbers to compare to them for the year before. Man you guys are jokers.

  20. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Why Why

    Odle was the one who compared Dubai to Barbados viz a viz comparing tourist/visitor numbers and revenue derived from the respective industries of the two destinations not me! And Odle should have the intelligence to know he is going down a slippery path, because the answer why is a simple one.

    Most going to Dubai are multi millionaires/billionaires, business people and extremely wealthy people. Their accommodation in Dubai is the ultimate. Other than eating lavishly, doing business etc these people need spend nothing. These visitors are also streaming into Dubai 365 days of the year as most are not principally tourists! This is not the case in Barbados. And many going to Dubai are there no more than a few days if that! Because they are there for business!

    Most have the best in watches, clothes, cars, homes (some more than one), furnishings and all of the things they need or want. Why then would they be in Dubai to shop or spend money other than their immediate needs? And does Odle believe the numbers going to Dubai are mainly “YARDFOWLS” and that is why they are not spending? That is the stupidity of his rhetoric.

    The little people or masses are not going to Dubai, it is mainly the wealthy so the very thing that ODLE is advocating is rubbish. 500,000 average tourists sprinkled with some wealthy people coming to Barbados and spending a couple of hundred or the odd thousand adds up. Compared to 500,000 of the class and wealth of person going to Dubai that Odle believes are the spenders would have the same impact in Barbados as it is having in Dubai. But then Dubai is so rich they do not give a shit about their visitors spending habits because many or the majority are there for business and investment opportunities. That is where the focus is! Two totally different destinations with two totally different economies.

    Comparing tourism or visitors to Barbados to that of Dubai and comparing the economic benefits is like comparing apples to oranges.

  21. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Here is another factor to seriously consider by any Nation, Barbados included when it comes to keeping accurate, credible and defendable statistics.

    The Assistant Secretary General of the Organization of American States (OAS) Mr. Albert Ramdu along with the United Nations (UN) have gone on the public record to express serious concern about the rising levels of crime in the Caribbean Region. This concern also include the increasing use of the Caribbean Region as a major Transhipment Industry for drugs.

    However, after carefully reading this detailed report here was the most distressing part about it
    that personally I am of the opinion Governments in the region are not paying enough attention to.

    The OAS and UN are suggesting that the higher levels of all crime, drugs, gun running etc is far more of a problem in Tourist generated economies of the region. In addittion the crime is also seriously impacting the social and local structures, economic engines and is beginning to destabalize the region.

    There is obviously more truth to what is being said by the OAS and UN than meets the eye, because Dame Billie Miller only a few short weeks ago went on the public record to basically say the same thing.

    However, what is very troubling about this matter especially in light of the recent revelation about how inaccurate statistics in Barbados are kept is this.

    With the OAS, UN and a senior Minister in the BLP Government like Dame Billie Miller speaking out about this serious criminal deterioration in the Region and especially with it significantly impacting the mainly Tourist economies of which Barbados is a leader. We have the police department only a few weeks ago boasting about significant reductions in all or most crime in our island. Is this true? can we trust what the police is telling us?

    I think that if there is any element of doubt that the police statistics are not correct that this matter be addressed by the Attorney General immediately and fixed HONESTLY.

    In this case we have the OAS and UN who have gone on the public record to say the crime situation in the Caribbean is the focus of their attention. And if Barbados is covering up their crime record with spurious statistics for ulterior motives this could have a very serious impact on our islands reputation among the Nations of the International Community. Especially those who generously give us “Foreign” and other aid.

    I get the impression that some in Barbados including the Government and their buereaucrats believe they can lie and distort the realities of anything they want and do it with impunity and get away with it, but these are different days we are living in.

    Satelites can track a fly on the ass of ant far less bigger and more serious problems. Nations, Barbados included have been purposely inflitrated by operatives that you might be having a drink with at Carib Bar or down on the Pier Head and not even suspect them. These boys and girls know exactly what is going down.

    The Government might be able to fool a social structure that are naive, poor and being taken advantage of, but the OAS, UN and International Community is another kettle of fish!

  22. Why why Avatar
    Why why

    No Name, a bit short on time have guest waiting BUT on the point of the Hurricane season do a bit more research youwill find that especially since the Ivan scare the region has been affected. Particularly the US market. I agreed that hurricane season starts June but we all know that is not generally when this part of the region is impacted. I agree that we are least likely to be impacted but our guests do not I cannot agree with you on that point. When you save for a year or more ( as most of our summer guest do) do you want to go somewhere where the holiday may be ruined by bad weather or more correctly what you percieve to be a threat of bad weather. I think not. Stop belittling the point I think Jemmott did have a point to make. You disagree … Ok fine but why bring yardfowlism into it that’s just being nasty and totally unwarranted.

  23. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    We are now on anoither subject language. That didn’t enter your first comment. Anyway you believe what you like.

    If people thought like what you and Jemmott want other people to believe they think like everybody would stay home. What about earthquakes, fires like in California, Tornadoes in Australia etc.

    There is no gurantees in life and people living in big countries who travel knows this better than most!

  24. Wishing in Vain Avatar
    Wishing in Vain

    If as reported on these site that SANDRIDGE HOTEL has been sold, what is the minister of tourism doing will he awake from his slumber at his million dollar plantation home and say enough is enough? never because he to is pandering to the rich west coast folks the Bjerkham’s and that ilk, will he have the balls to deny the application to convert it to condos?
    I bet you not the short term is that contruction wokers will get empolyment but what happens after this the maids, the cooks, the bartenders, the housekeepers, reception desk, the front office managers,the gardeners, the waiters and waitresses all dissappear as a lost generation????
    Wake up you clown and put your foot down and say enough is enough.
    Even if it offends Owing his money is safe he has accumulated masses of it so do what is right for the island not yourselves.

  25. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Why Why

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with two people with varying opinions to come to a conclusion of “agreeing to disagree”.

    What I have a problem with is that when some get caught with their hands in the “cookie” jar they do not have the balls to say “yes you are correct and I should not have said that”.

    We Bajans seem to think admitting being wrong is a cardinal sin.

    You are defending the BTA and the BHTA and here in black and white on the public record the statistical data they are using to justify or support their performance is not worth the paper it is written on. And I do not care who is responsible as that is irrelevant.

    When you are trying to support what we are being told is the islands most prolific Foreign Exchange earner one would think that ALL involved would make sure that what they say and claim is beyond querstion or at least defendable!

    This is not the first time all of this fraudulent statistical information has surfaced I am tired of bringing it up. And Adrian Loveridge and others from the time the CWC was winding down incessantly questioned the bizarre statistics coming from BTA and BHTA to justify and put a false spin on the true performance of the arrivals etc.

    That to me is evil, devious, dishonest and misleading. And it is behaviour unbecoming people in the positions they are in at BHTA and BTA. And therefore ALL involved deserves being called anything. When you behave like a criminal, liar or as Barbadians say Yardfowls to falsely justify your perfoprmance you must expect to hang your head in shame!

  26. David Avatar
    David

    Adrian L, Odle might be running a successful operations by the measure which you are using, is it Tripedvisor? It does not mean that at the national or regional level we should;d assume that he is doing a good job. We side with the view that the only source of correct data should be the Barbados Statistical Service/Central Bank. The stats people at the BTA and BHTA must source from from BSS/CBB. Too long now we have been monkeying about with the data.

  27. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Here is another thing that upsets me. And let me make it clear I am not nit picking. AND THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY POLITICAL PREFERENCES. What I am saying is correct and in other jurisdictions would be looked at in this light.

    The BTA has the right to politically exploit the CWC I am not necessarily saying they should lie or make false statements. I am saying if they wish to embelish politically how they see the CWC influencing the Barbados economy in the long and short term they have that right to do so because they are a political arm of the BLP Government.

    However when it comes to the BHTA this is an organization representing various members with diverse political loyalties, ideologies and their opinions of the day to day social, political and economic realities in Barbados.

    From my perspective comments coming from members of the BHTA hierarchy like Sue Springer, Alvin Jemmott et al should be limited to things and issues like what the CWC did to improve hotel/members occupancy, comments from CWC guests about the level and satisfaction of their accommodations and things like that if you get my drift.

    Instead and I am sure Adrian you will remember this and I am sure others will too.

    Sue Springer speaking on behalf of the BHTA made comments about the CWC success and that the Barbados economy would see the benefits of it for years to come. (Not verbatim but close to what Ms. Springer was suggesting)

    This clearly was a political statement and supporting the BTA and BLP Government. And it was wrong and inappropriate. Were I a member of the BHTA I would have taken serious exception to it. Especially during an election year! This is not about DLP or BLP this is about an organization (BHTA) comprising of many diverse members and comments coming from its executive should be non political and non partisan.

    How does Sue Springer know what good the CWC will do for the Barbados economy down the road?

  28. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    David….

    Fair comments.

    In reality, there are very few tourism industry professionals that can really say with conviction that Barbados is doing well within the region.

    The facts really speak for themselves:

    2002-2004 – 2,000 jobs lost in the sector.

    Over the last 13 years – 26 hotels closed.
    6 (or 7 years) of a national discounting programme (Best of Barbados)

    and perhaps, most disappointing for all the people that have help promote Intra Caribbean travel, a near 30% reduction in this market so far this year.

    Some of us, passionately believe we can do better.

  29. Saint Nick Avatar
    Saint Nick

    Noticed profanity on two blogs aimed at BU/BFP by pro government supporters . This is despairingly sad, but a clear indication of the preferred method of discourse and level of intelligience by these supporters.
    It is hoped that the other side does not stoop to those kind of measures. However don’t despair, keep publishing those type of blogs and the intelligent reading public will see for themselves the quality representation that has been in existence.

  30. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Saint Nick

    Here is where I have a problem with counterproductive nonsense like this.

    Blogs give us the opportunity to do or try to do what is RIGHT for our beloved Barbados. The people who set them up, monitor them etc is giving their time free to us ALL.

    Whether we are BLP or DLP or whatever can’t we do what is best for Barbados and display a decorum that says WE ARE ALL PROUD BARBADIANS FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT FOR OUR BELOVED HOMELAND? Without some of the filthy and threatening rhetoric we are exposed to?

    Why do any of us have to single out people like Adrian Loveridge and his family as an example or the very Blogs BU and BFP who are instrumental in giving us an opportunity to talk freely to castigate in vulgar and ignorant language these people? It makes no sense!

    No one has a problem or I do not and I am guilty myself of using a little off colored language or sayings but really some of the filthy, vulgar nonsense printed on here because of ignorant people is truly pathetic.

    When one considers that these BLOGS are read by overseas folk what do you think they draw from all of it? I do not think good things!

  31. anon Avatar
    anon

    I believe Sue Springer is on BHTA and BTA boards. I notice what she says is mostly in concert with Muscle Mary Lynch mouthings. One must remember two of them played musical chairs at BHTA before MM Lynch took Payne out of tourism.
    Springer’s take on CWC is at serious variance with Barbadians responses in Cadres poll. The poll reflects Barbadians view that CWC was close to a disaster. Springer and Lynch saw CWC as our finest hour. I dont think it farfetched to see these two as idiots.

  32. james Avatar
    james

    Easy there anon. My impression is that whilst Springer may well be pushed to supporting the government platform, she is a thoroughly capable tourism professional. Perhapds Adrian has a view on this.

  33. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    James…

    I have enormous respect for Sue Springer, but she has to juggle a lot of balls and we have to remember who pays her salary and who she has to work with.

    I believe she did a superb job in clearing up the mess left by her predecessor.

    At the end of the day, we have to change the way our tourism sector works. It is not enough to rely on one side for policymaking to be made by well intentioned volunteers and the other side an army of civil servants.

  34. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Personally I am not going to get into the politics of the BTA and BHTA but personally I think common sense dictate that you cannot have a person serving two masters.

    I am not questioning the competency, integrity or honesty of Sue Springer, Odle or Jemmott I am saying, that all of them make ridiculous and unsupported statements and give ridiculous and unsupported explanations for issues and things impacting the Tourist Industry. And these statements and unsupported explanations make them look as though they are disconnected or out of touch with what is really ailing the Tourism Industry. This does not instil confidence in either the BTA or BHTA. I could do a better job!

    Sue Springer if she wishes to laud the success of the CWC and the long term economic good it will have on the economy of Barbados then I think that is a” political” statement. And if it were done as I THOUGHT WAS THE CASE when wearing the hat of the BHTA it was ill advised and could be considered offensive by some members.

    Sue Springer is entitled to her opinions as anyone else is and Sue Springer is entitled to her political opinions and thoughts like anyone else is, that is not in question here. But, but as a Professional in the Tourism Industry she needs to pick her forums carefully to expound.

    In the case of Odle and Jemmott there public rhetoric is simply nonsense and it also needs to be tempered.

    How can anyone use statistics that cannot be supported. And by saying that you do not have statistics from the year before to compare your facts applying to 07 to? Odle was a part of this embarassing situation adding fuel to fire by comparing tourist arrivals and spending in Dubai with those of Barbados. This goes beyond nonsense. The two destinations and economies are totally different and thousands going to DUBAI 365 days of the year influencing arrivals are business people there on business. Dubai is tehnically not truly a Tourist destination in the same sense as is Barbados.

    Like my concern with the unreliability of ststistical data in Barbados which has now been proven beyond doubt to be a joke and cannot be trusted. I have a similar concern about how negative matters are explained away about poor performance levels in Tourism, Crime, Business downturns, Incompetence at the QEH etc. These are not isolated situations they keep repetitively re-appearing year in and year out with nothing being done to fix or address the real deficiencies and causes for them. In other words those responsible for it are treating Barbadians as though we are idiots. This type of crap in the twenty first century and in a Nation boasting to be soon considered a “Developed” Nation is inexcusable. And those responsible for it especially the BLP Government are going to pay a big price for it as the International Community is getting as impatient as I am with this bush league way business is conducted not only in Barbados but the Caribbean Region. They are already saying this about the level of crime, drugs, gun running etc. Barbados and other Governments in the Region are treating the masses who are the most vulnerable of the society as is done in the growing of mushrooms “They are being kept in the dark and fed Bullshit”. The wealthy and the Foreign element are not treated like this. Why?

    Getting back to Adrian Loveridges claim that the Tourism product in Barbados can be improved to increase numbers I concur 100% but, first the Government, the hoteliers and the movers and shakers have to demand that you have a “turkey” shoot at BTA and get people who know how to promote a product instead of using propaganda to fool people there is nothing wrong with the product while all the time it is going through the eddoes.

    Barbados has reached a juncture in Tourism promotion where continued and wasteful subsidies of taxpayers dollars have to stop being used to prop it up for political reasons and for smoke and mirrors fake results.

    The real problems if they are to be solved will not be solved with the ongoing and repetitive foolish excuses for Tourism decline in Barbados. They have and must be addressed head on. And clearly the BTA and BHTA do not have the people with the cranial capacity or the professional human resources to accomplish this goal.

    I must agree with what Lynette Eastmond said today, Barbados businesses have to start tapping into and using Developed World resources, expertise and skill if they want to be at the top of their game and get the results they are capable of getting. And none more so that the Tourism Industry. This Industry obviously isn’t even getting along among themselves and that speaks volumes to the many players who are going it alone and that as things are now in BTA and BHTA is the correct decision.

  35. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Let me give you an example of a very positive AND TRUTHFUL promotion that might help Barbados with off- season arrivals that no one seem to twig into.

    In winter we see Advertisments showing terrible winter scenes abroad that suggest they escape and come to Barbados and its sunny beaches and warm sea.

    In the summer have a promotion that “Why Why” says the Foreigners do not know anything about. Maybe some but all travellers are very informed.

    Tell them Barbados is not only the greatest Winter Destination to come to but the “Safest” Summer Destination to visit. And explain that because of the Easterly location of Barbados it rarely gets Tropical storms which is supported by statistics (in this case credible statistics) Barbados has not had a storm in 52 or 53 years.

    How is that for exploiting the truth and a fact that gives summer vistors a reason to choose Barbados because if they research the Promotion they will find that what they are being told is the TRUTH.

  36. Vaeltaja Avatar
    Vaeltaja

    Goodness me. An awful lot of comment and backbiting and much consideration as to just what the ‘real’ increase in tourist numbers was.

    And all the while someone forgot to mention thye effect of the Cricket World cup.

    Perhaps someone would like to factor THAT into their discussions on tourist numbers.

    I stayed in January for a couple of weeks and enjoyed the island so much that I am coming back – next time for a month at the end of January 2008. Whilst staying a person whom I met described the shortage of tourists as playing havoc, and although the Tourist Board were frantically reminding people of the great bonanza to come he wryly commented: ‘The horses are starving, whilst they wait for the grass to grow!’

    A clear indicator that all too little was being done in the meantime to boost tourism to Barbados right then!

    I look forward to hearing the views on this

  37. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Vaeltaja

    I cannot get a grasp sir/madam as to your point. You seem to be suggesting CWC made tourism good this year.

    Then you say a friend told you when you were there for CWC that tourism was not good “the horses are starving, whilst they wait for the grass to grow”.

    You end by suggesting “A clear indicator that too little was being done in the meantime to boost tourism numbers to Barbados right then”.

    I nearly missed your post because the population of Barbados has put aside incorrect, false or fraudulent (your choice) statistics or the state of tourism as any siginificant issue/s and have become consumed about the Mascoll situation and the results of the election in Trinidad and Tobago.

    First and foremost the CWC basically started this debate/controversy about the true numbers generated by CWC in visitors to Barbados. Minister Lynch et al was telling us cruise ships had thousands in Barbados. But Adrian Loveridge and others shot that down as BS which it clearly was.

    We are still waiting to hear from the Government and their “statistical” department???? not only about Tourist arrivals generated by CWC but what other significant indicators do they have to share with us that shows CWC was anything but a gigantic and serious flop, that has left all islands participating in it with a huge debt load. You should know because you claim to be from overseas and all overseas reports and press releases said it was the worse CWC ever on record. I would trust the overseas assessment far quicker than anything the Governments of the Caribbean tell us especially after seeing the BS from Jemmott, Odle, the Advocate, Central Bank Governor et al re statistics suggesting that only a 2 to 3 % increase in arrivals were realized THIS YEAR OVER LAST. Are you suggesting that maybe those statistics did not include CWC numbers? Why would that be?

    The thing with SOME Barbadians, their Press BTA and BHTA personel is this. They have short memories and they forget that NOT ALL resorts pay any attention to them or use them because they are irresponsible.

    Prior to CWC the spokesperson for “Elegant” Hotels in Barbados they are the ones that accommodate the “wealthy” visitor which Odle aspires to encourage coming to Barbados because they will spend money. Said on the public record the same thing I did in a letter to the editor. He/she said their occupancy/bookings for the CWC months were down and they were concerned. Now why should that shock anyone? Most people go on winter vacations to relax and enjoy peace and quiet etc. How could these type of visitors get that atmosphere with CWC going on? The way Barbados is going right now you cannot get it on a normal winter get away. Even the locals are complaining about gridlock, noise etc.

    When the results of the CWC matches ousted the team/s that are responsible for drawing the big attendance numbers got beat the wheels fell off of the CWC bandwagon.

    Have fun and enjoy your next visit, as you know do not forget to bring nuff money when you coming as not only will you need it but Barbados needs it!

  38. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    The FACTS are (according to the figures avalable on the Barbados Statistic Service website):

    January – April 2007 including the CWC Period, up to and including hosting the final.

    Long stay Visitors

    January – DOWN
    February -DOWN
    March – DOWN
    April -UP

    when compared with the same period in 2006.

    So in terms of net visitor gain including all cricket long stay arrivals we ended the first four months UP by a total of 44 persons.

    For the period January to September (nine months) we are 2% up in terms of long stay visitors arrivals.

    Again, according to the BBS, Cruise ship passengers for the period January-June are classified by:

    1) Arrivals – 13.7% UP
    2) Landed Passengers – 5.5% UP
    when compared to the same period last year.

    Again, to repeat, these are NOT my figures, Peter Odle’s figures, the BHTA or Barbados Tourism Authority figures, they are the ones supplied to the MOT, Central Bank and all other interested parties by the BSS(when you can get a reply from them).

  39. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Thank you Adrian. But here is what leaves me breathless.

    Why did the Central Bank Governor use a “robust”
    tourism season being responsible for the 4.3% economic growth. And my next question is this.

    Those members of the BHTA having now seen how unreliable the BSS statistics are why do they not keep their own statistics? More importantly why have they not been doing this from the onset?

    Is the Chamber of commerce, Police etc also using BSS statistics to support their operations? If they are then God help us!

  40. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    I am afraid I cannot see what sort of possible justification the Central Bank can use for describing our tourism performance this year as robust.

    If Pay Hoyos (Broad Street Journal) figures are correct and I am sure they are, then long stay visitor arrivals grew by just 2% in the first nine months and tourism value by 3.1%.

    The BIG question that I have not been able to get anybody to answer, is if the ‘tourism value’ figure quoted is INFLATION adjusted.

    If it is NOT, then our actually tourism earnings have fallen not risen.

  41. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Thanks again. And as you know it is not only Patrick Hoyos suggesting only a 2% increase but Jemmott ran with that number too but I think he took it one step further by suggesting the growth would be 3% by years end. How come he used the revised numbers that were not acknowledged by BSS the Advocate or Governor as being more realistic? Where did these numbers come from? Who kept and compiled them? How can you have two vastly different types of statistics being thrown around in the public forum and expect people to grasp the true realities of the performance of an industry as important as Tourism? It blows my mind!

    But Adrian here is what I cannot believe in the Advocate today and in light of the error or erroneous statistics the Governor used OR WAS PROVIDED a few days ago obviously by BSS. Today she does nothing to refute the spurious content of the numbers and goes on to laud tourism as being the major economic engine behind Economic growth for next year also. I give up! Would you not think that a person as important to the Barbados financial sector and its stability would not have found it important to clear up this mess?

  42. Linchh Avatar
    Linchh

    Mr. Loveridge, I entirely agree that the Governor of the Central Bank’s comments regarding the performance of the tourism sector are highly ambiguous. As I pointed out in an earlier post, in the Dr. Williams’ statement carried on the Central Bank’s website she is reported as saying that REAL TOURISM VALUE ADDED is estimated to have grown by 3.1%. But, she went on to say: “After declining by nearly 7% in the first
    quarter, visitor arrivals showed a spike
    of 13.6% during the second quarter of
    2007, relative to an increase of 8.4% in
    the comparable period of 2006”. I feel that you are justified in asking what is the relationship between “real tourism value added” and visitor arrivals in the Governor’s statement.

    Incidentally, in the jargon of national accounts analysis, when an aggregate like the value added in the tourism sector is described as “real” it generally means that it has been adjusted to remove the element of inflation. When the figure has not been adjusted for inflation it is described as “nominal”. However, this terminology obviously makes sense only when one is discussing monetary values. When one discusses increases in NUMBERS of visitors to Barbados, or tons of sugar produced these are obviously real increases.

    I think that you should be aware that there may be a high degree on unreliability of PROVISIONAL estimates of the Gross Domestic Product which are based on very limited INDICATORS. In my view these statistics are useful only if used cautiously to measure a general trend. In this regard, it is interesting that we have been agonising about the availibility of the number of visitors, which is based on the collection and tabulation of emigration/departure cards. Have you ever participated in any attempt to determine the number of visitors who stay at yours, and other hotels, and the amount of money that they spend? Further, even if such an exercise were carried out it would more likely be a survey rather than a census. I have asked this question because I feel that if information is to be used as a planning tool in the tourism sector a way must be found to obtain it on a more reliable basis from the participants in the tourism sector.

  43. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Mr. Linchh

    I am not into the technicalities of this subject and obviously you seem well qualified to address them.

    My immediate concern as it should be the concern of ALL Barbadians is first to address and determine the truth or falsehood relating to the accuracy of the statistics being used by the Central Bank Governor and others to support not only the economic and growth realities of Tourism. Are we to understand that this irresponsible and unreliable statistical information is limited to Tourism numbers only. Or could it be by extension applicable to statistical data applying to the level of crime, unemployment etc? The truth must be disclosed!

    Don’t you think that this is an issue any Government including the Central Bank Governor should first address before moving on to other technical areas of this subject?

    How can the Advocate Newspaper and the Central Bank Governor make a statement about the “Robust” Tourism performance driving the Barbados economy based on statistics that the BHTA and the BTA contradict by disclosing significant and different statistics two days later in the Nation News?

    I suggest if the BTA an arm of the Government stood by and heard Mr. Jemmott of the BHTA say tourism had increased by 2% up to September 07 and was expected to increase to 3% by the end of the current year, as carried by the Nation News. And with this happening a day or so after the Advocates erroneous postings and did not interject to correct Jemmott then obviously the BTA concurred.

    My question with respect is this sir. How can a responsible Government and Central Bank Governor simply ignore this situation and exacerbate it by further unsupported rhetoric in to-days Advocate regarding Tourism being a major and driving economic force behind the growing Barbados economy extending into 2008?

    I find the entire situation an embarassment even to a Government of a Third World Nation!

  44. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    FINALLY the Barbados Advocate prints the TRUTH.

    ‘Long stay visitor arrivals into Barbados for the period January to September this year were up a miserly 2.1 per cent according to the Barbados Statistical Service’.

    and it added

    ‘Just last week the Central Bank of Barbados said visitor arrivals were up 3.1 per cent for the same period’.

    I wonder where the Central Bank gets it figures?

    Kudos to Pat Hoyos for persisting to reveal the truth.

  45. Idealist Avatar
    Idealist

    Adrian L:

    Is the article you refer to online?

    In the business section, I can only find a repeat of the 18% joke comment giving Minister Lynch his last laugh.

  46. Adrian Loveridge Avatar
    Adrian Loveridge

    Idealist..

    I had a quick look online, but cannot find it.
    Page 13 Advocate today ‘BSS: Long stay visitor arrivals up slightly’.

  47. Idealist Avatar
    Idealist

    Guess The Advocate is a conspirator in the “CWC was our finest hour” myth, and doesn’t want the truth out on the net whilst featuring Dr Williams’ discredited 18% increase.

  48. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Amen but let me say this after also giving kudos to Patrick Hoyos. How can we now have any confidence in any statistics put out by BSS. And more intriguing to me is this.

    Why were the tourist statistics inflated incorrectly until caught? I tend to agree with “Idealist” was it a conspiracy to make the CWC look good?

    Maybe Patrick might like to keep and eye on other posted statistics bt BSS. It might open the eyes of Barbadians.

  49. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Adrian Loveridge. I was surfing the web last evening and saw where Air Canada had its best October in “load” capacity at 76.4%. Thought you might be interested if you had not seen it.

    That tells me some destinations must have been doing well? All of that Load capacity was not only domestic.

  50. No Name Avatar
    No Name

    Adrian Loveridge

    I read in my Nation News Business section this morning that Rosann Myers of the National Tourism Marketing Committee sees a healthy “love” bird market. Marriages and Honeymoons using as support for the argument that even when Tourism is down people are still getting married. And as an off shoot they are also dying and divorcing. Maybe burials at sea or the celebration of getting rid of your spouse by divorce could also have marketing potential. Some might like to scatter their ashes in Bim and money could be made from that too. Special licencing etc!

    I do not know about you Adrian but I think this concept has very little potential.

    One thing for sure the trend and statistics will support that few marriages in Barbados will generate anymore spending as Odle wants. I suggest if a hundred marriages a year are put on in Barbados most of these involve average or below average wage earners and they are doing it on a shoe string and as cheaply as possible.

    Now I can see love resorts like “Sandals” all inclusive who caters to mainly an adult clientele as in Jamaica doing well because you are encompassing a broad and diverse client base. However, Barbados let Sandals slip through the cracks for the Four Seasons Pagoda.

    Where people get off at some of these ridiculous suggestions to improve Tourist numbers is beyond me.

    What I want to know is what in the way of special accommodation does anyone need wanting to get married in Barbados, Grenada etc. They only need a hotel room, bed, shower, airline ticket and a marriage licence which is readily arranged at any hotel. I realize that some have the hotel cater to a few guests but let us get real. A guest list that suggest the marriage will be in Barbados might involve a hundred people but how many do you think will take them up on attending?

    What I would like to know is on what sound statistical information/data is such nonsense being advocated to be a viable long term tourism attraction? Had Ms. Myers said our studies on this matter shows that there are 20,000 couples who come to the Caribbean every year to get married but do so mainly at Sandals in Jamaica because other islands cannot accommodate the marriage or something like that I might understand. But not one scrap of supporting evidence was given in this write up. Or the potential for such a market suggests that it could generate $50 million dollars per year etc to hotels and the Barbados economy based on a comprehensive study we had done by———.

    I think I could make a better case for advocating that “rock” climbing be developed as a tourist attraction in Barbados. That is a very popular sport now and people could climb Hackletons Cliff, the many inland cliffs in St. Peter and St. James and in the Scotland District. I do not think marriages abroad is a big industry. It started about a decade or two ago as a lark more than anything else and the trend is slowly losing popularity because of economics and it being not pratical in the case of treasured guests and loved ones not being able to attend.

    What is your thoughts on this if you feel inclined!

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