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The following is shared from caribbeansignal.com on the issue of a controversial survey sponsored by the Ministry of Education – Blogmaster

October 6, 2022 by Amit Uttamchandani

Code.org responds to questions around controversial test in Barbados

Code.org logo, Source: Wikipedia

On October 5th, Barbados Today published an article about a controversial computer science test held in Barbados. 

The original article, and subsequent Oct 6 articles mentioned Code.org, the Ministry of Education, Technological & Vocational Training, and the Inter-American Development Bank, (see here, here and here). I contacted Code.org on October 5 and asked the following questions:

Code.org questions from Amit
Screenshot of Questions sent on Oct 5, 2022 (click to enlarge).

Today (Oct 6), I received the following reply from Code.org:

Code.org responses from Amit.
Screenshot of Code.org Reply received Oct 6, 2022 (click to enlarge).

As per BT’s initial Oct 5 and 6th articles, and Code.org’s Oct 6th reply to my queries (and the IDB’s Oct 6th statement and apology, and The Ministry’s response and apology), it seems – to me at least – that Code.org was not involved.

Posted by caribbeansignal.com

Controversial Survey as under:

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627 responses to “Parents in Barbados Query Strange Test, Sex Test, Science Test”

  1. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    The Barbados Family Planning Association was another organization which arose in the decade post- Moyne. Founded in May 1954

  2. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    The 1953 Public Health Act presented the framework for which a community clinic initiative was to be introduced.

  3. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    the Enmore Health Clinic was opened in February 1955. Later, in October of that year Dr. Edgar Cochrane was appointed as Medical Health Officer with Dr. D.O.D Payne as part-time Tuberculosis Officer. Enmore was equipped with a modern X-ray unit with a 5”x 4” camera detachment. In January 1956, a national BCG campaign commenced and this was head-quartered at Enmore.
    In addition, a V.D clinic was introduced in September 1955, followed by a chest clinic which was frequented by persons wishing to travel to the United Kingdom.

  4. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    In 1960, dental and ophthalmic services were introduced at Enmore followed by a mental hygiene clinic in October 1961.

  5. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    the Six Roads Health Centre was officially opened with Dr. Cochrane visiting weekly from Enmore as consultant.On the 27th of April 1958,

    Numerous satellite clinics were established from Six Roads including school- medical and diabetic clinics, home visiting, and clinics for midwifery and health education for schools.

    Other clinics were located at Kendal in St. John (from 1st Oct 1959) and at Charles Rowe Bridge From Oct 2nd 1959 which was later called the Glebe Clinic from 1960.Other much utilized clinics were located at Gall Hill in St. John, and at St. Augustine in St. George.

  6. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    In December 1960, the first District Hospital was opened. Its area of operation was the highly populated Oistins district and at the time provided 20 beds for persons seeking care.

    Other District Hospitals
    St. Thomas District Hospital,
    St. Andrew District Hospital,
    St. Phillip District Hospital (Ruby),
    St. Michael District Hospital,
    St. Lucy District Hospital,
    Gordon Cumming District Hospital (Rock hall)

  7. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    QUEEN ELIZABETH HOSPITAL
    Opened in 1964 14th November 1964

  8. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    The St. Joseph Hospital at Villa Maria , Ashton Hall St. Peter was opened on Thursday January 6, 1966

  9. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    All these things before GP was born, some before he was conceived, or perhaps before his parents met. All before he was an adult.

  10. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @William, thank you for that frankness. I can only do it that way … aiming for intellectual honesty. You too are clear on your positions — and agree or disagree you call it as you see it. Excellent. However some of your comrades like @Theo and @Simple Simon in this case too often dissemble and misrepresent another view’s to suit their argument. That is annoyingly distressing.

    @Theo, I surely am not asking you to “make that call”. I made it without equivocation. And again respectfully but I unfortunately have to accuse you of awful intellectual dishonesty. Your career experience should offer you a much clearer understanding.

    I have long moved pass the debate of whether the survey was professionally done/the ministry officials dishonesty. I asked a few questions of my teacher friends early in this debate and thus fully recognized this was another cluster ‘fess-up’. I expressed that here bluntly. So I refute your damnable inaccuracies that in any of my post I “have glossed over the main points” of this matter.

    I have very clearly said that the survey itself was ok but the process was very wrong. So let me stoke this new fire. Thus I would absolutely like to have all biographical data stripped away from the respondents queries to see read-outs of the responses. This is NOT a criminal matter so the ‘fruit of the poison tree’ is absurdly irrelevant here.

    You better believe that there is _”something about these children that [I] know that [you pretend not to know]”. And I would like the entire bunch of hypocrites in Bim to know that too.

    To know that some kids are still going to school without breakfast; to know that at 11 lots of them know all about using anal sex to avoid pregnancies or to use oral sex for the ‘thrill without the pill’ and lots of other types of sexual practices; that they know of or have been look-outs for neighborhood drug dealers; that their drug dealer parents have threatened people at the school or they use their ‘bad boy’ association to create their own leader-follower dynamics at school. And more and more. This is known STUFF and yet we are here talking this rubbish about trauma with 11 years old in 2022 from answering some questions about sexual mores! Steeeupse.

    When I went to school we played cricket all lunch period and at break kicks n bites or whatever … now with the girls present lots of fellas are settled at the coolest nook chatting and smooching .. so if you want to pretend that Bajan or Jamaican 11 years are so traumatized from such a survey then pretend away!

    I would stick my neck out and say that the Ministry of Education wanted to get feedback on exactly what was being asked but for some INEXPLICABLE reason the technocrats just simply ‘fessed’ up royally! I would further surmise they deliberately used subterfuge because they expected lots of parents would not want these questions asked of their children… there is no excuse for any of that BS stupidity… but it does NOT invalidate the rationale for the survey!

    But we all firmly agree that “These children and their parent have rights. These children should be protected.” … so let’s continue this hyperventilating about who ‘fessed-up’ to score righteousness points rather than address ourselves to handling the CORE issues facing the youth.

    SMH!

  11. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    @PPD “now with the girls present lots of fellas are settled at the coolest nook chatting and smooching.”

    I was in a schoolyard 8 times for the term to pick up an 11 year old. When last have you been in a Barbados school yard? I did not see any smooching among the 11 year olds. Maybe you are imagining what you as a boy would have done to an 11 year old girl if you had the opportunity when you were a boy. Maybe 11 year old girls are not as interested in sweaty teenage boys as you imagine?

  12. GP Avatar
    GP

    RE Tom Adams as an upper middle class “town” boy who lived in England for much of his young adulthood FROM ABOUT 19 50 TO 1970 OR SO

    HERE WAS A BARBADOS SCHOLAR WITH A SUPERIOR INTELLECT probably UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND NOTHING ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE UK’s NHS BECAUSE SILLY SIMON SAYS SO —- NOTE HER WORD probably

    HERE WAS THE SON OF A MAN WHO WAS ACTIVE IN THE POLITICS OF BARBADOS WHO probably didn’t know head nor tail what was going in rural Barbados.?

    HERE WAS THE SON OF A MAN WHO WAS ACTIVE IN THE POLITICS OF BARBADOS WHO probably didn’t know head nor tail what was going in SPEIGHSTOWN WHERE SIR MAURICE BEGUN HIS PUBLIC HEALTH EXPLOITS AT ARLINGTON HOUSE?

    Our public health service has/had little or nothing to do with the UK’s NHS or with GP
    AND I HAVE SAID SIR MAURICE BYER TAUGHT US ALL ABOUT IT IN BOTH MY SOCIALAND PREVENTATIVE MEDICINE ROTATION AND IN MY COMUNITY HEALTH ROTATIONS

    RE Our public health service, the clinics etc. were an outcome of the Moyne Commission after the 1938 rebellion. Both of my parents, who both died in this 21st century were eye and ear witnesses to the 1938 rebellion.

    SO WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF CHEESE ?

    OUR PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE WAS BIRTHED VIA SIR MAURICE BYER SIR KENETH STANDARD AND DR FRANK RAMSEY IN CHILD HEALTH ESPECIALLY WITH HIS WORKIN PROTEIN DEFICIENCY IN BARBADIAN CHILDREN

    I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED ANYWHERE TO HAVE ENACTED A PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE ANYWHERE ON THE GLOBE

    NOW BECAUSE Tom Adams Was an upper middle class “town” boy who lived in England for much of his young adulthood THIS MEANT THAT HE DID NOT SEEK TO SET UP A NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE IN BARBADOS LIKE THE ONE THAT FASCINATED HIM WHEN HE SOJOURNED IN THE UK’ WHEN HE CAME TO POWER IN 1976
    THIS IS A CLEAR NON SEQUITUR AND A FALSEHOOD BECAUSE HE DID

    THIS ALSO MEANS THAT I DO NOT HAVE A LETTER FROM TOM ADAMS IN RESPONSE TO THE LETTER I WROTE TO HIM IN EARLY I985 TO DISCUSS HIS PROPOSALS FOR A NHS LIKE THE ONE IN THE UK

    AS ARTAX HAS CORRECTLY SAID
    So, we’re to IGNORE the proof he often presents to substantiate his claims, and join with you to call him a LIAR, because your younger brother had prenatal and baby care at the PUBLIC HEALTH CLINIC in Speightstown, in 1959, and you had a tooth extracted there in 1964.

    Remember, I ‘said’ previously that your VIEWS on serious issues are OFTEN INCREDIBLY NAIVE and PAROCHIAL.
    In other words, your outlook on life ,DOES NOT INCLUDE anything OUTSIDE your own personal experiences, involving you, family, relatives and friends.

    You claimed to have a ‘better command of the English language than anyone on this blog,’ yet, you do not understand there’s a DIFFERENCE between a PUBLIC health system, which is essentially localized, and a NATIONAL health care system.

  13. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    I have had children or grandchildren in Barbados schools from 1987 to 2011 and again from 2015 to the present. 4 different schools. Children talk. During all that time I have heard of one youngster, a white girl disciplined for sexual activity NOT intercourse at school.

    Maybe your experience is deeper and wider and more recent than mine, but I was in a Barbados schoolyard up to Thursday last week.

  14. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    @GP “HERE WAS A BARBADOS SCHOLAR WITH A SUPERIOR INTELLECT probably UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND NOTHING ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE UK’s NHS”

    Please not that I did NOT write that Tom Adams “probably UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND NOTHING ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE UK’s NHS”

    Go back and read what I wrote.

  15. David Avatar
    David

    This is to advise that tomorrow, Monday 10th July, 7a.m. – 9 a.m there > will be a 1-man protest 200 yards west of the Ministry of Education, at the > junction of Crumption Street and Constitution Road. DON’T MISS IT!

  16. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    Upper middle class urban youngsters are all too often shielded/protected by their loving parents from learning how poor and rural people live.

    Why do you think that auntie had to launch her “rubbing shoulders” campaign? Because she had experience of the realities of the rural poor?

  17. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    “I have very clearly said that the survey itself was ok but the process was very wrong.”

    And the point that I’m driving home to you that because the process was wrong the fruit of the process is also wrong.. Hand waving and name calling cannot budge me I will try again

    Here is a concept to chew on
    “The Fruit of the Poisonous Tree doctrine (also known as the Derivative Evidence Doctrine) is a rule in criminal law that makes evidence that was derived from an illegal search, arrest or interrogation inadmissible.”

  18. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    You are right.. you did not gloss over, you missed the point (completely).
    The survey should be trashed (completely).

  19. GP Avatar
    GP

    WILLIAM October 9, 2022 7:19 PM
    RE That history of St. Joseph that you gave is a serious eye opener.
    Thanks again.
    NO PROBLEM

    THE SECOND BIRTH OF ST JOSEPH HOSPITAL OCCURED WHEN BRANFORD TAITT DID A GREAT JOB IN RESURRECTING THIS HOSPITAL BY RENOVATION AND RE-EQUIPING IT

    I WAS ABLE TO REFER PATIENTS THERE IN 1995 FOR SURGERY
    THE HOSPITAL WAS AGAIN CLOSED UNDER THE BLP ADMINISTRATION LED BY NONE OTHER THAN OWEN ARTHUR, WHO WAS A PRODUCT OF THAT AREA.

    BRANFORD AND KIETH SYMONDS WERE TWO OF THE BEST MINISTERS OF HEALTH WE HAVE HAD IN RECENT TIMES. THEY WERE INVOLVED AND HAD EXCELLENT IDEAS

    BRANFORD WANTED THE WAITING AREAS FOR THE GENERAL PRACTICE CLINICS IN THE POLYCLINICS TO REFLECT THAT OF THAT SEEN IN A PRIVATE CLINIC

    HIS ATTEMPT TO THAT AT WARRENS WAS TWARTED BY A CERTAIN EX BLP OPERATIVE SAID TO BE A HEALTH PLANNER, WHO SCREWED UP THE PLAN SUBMITTED FOR WARRENS EVEN THOUGHT IT WAS FAVOURABLY LOOKED UPON AND APPROVED BY ETHERIDGE – THE MAN WHO LOOKED OVER SUCH THINGS.

    THE PLAN WAS SET UP BASED ON THE IDEA THAT IF YOU PUT THE CONSULTING ROOMS TO FAR FROM THE WAITING AREA, A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME WOULD BE LOSS, BETWEEN THE TIME THE PATIENT TRAVERSED BETWEEN THESE TWO POINTS

    NOTE THAT THIS PLAN WAS SET UP AROUND THE TIME OF THE RIOTS AND THE MOYNE COMMISSION.
    PLEASE PARDON MY SARCASM TOO.

    THERE IS SO MUCH TO TELL
    BUT LOOK UP THE ROLE OF SIR KENNETH STANDARD ON LINE AND HIS INFLUENCE ON PUBLIC HEALTH IN BIM BETWEEN 1955 & 1961, TO UNDERSTAND A LOT OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH ACTIVITY THAT OCCURED THEN

    NOTE THJAT PUBLIC HEALTH CLINICS DID NOT HAVE FAMILY /GENERAL PRACTICE CLINICS AND THAT PUBLIC HEALTH IS ONLY ONE SEGMENT IN THE NATIONAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEM OF ANY COUNTRY

  20. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    In 1966 one of the 13 year old girls at our school became pregnant. Then and now I saw it as rape although for a brief period she thought the 19 year old who impregnated her was her boyfriend. Even so she was unable to raise the child and the young man and his family took custody. The girl’s parents had been part of the Windrush generation and she was a left behind child, and yet so many of the overseas Bajans love to cuss those of us who chose to stay on the rock even while we cook, wash and clean for their children. One of my neighbors, born in 1937 told me that she became pregnant at 15 even while going to a good school, She shivered when she told me that she was unable to raise the child. The father’s family took custody. She saw it as rape, I saw it as rape. Our school children who are mostly younger than 16 need sex education but they do not need adults suggesting to them that sex below the age of 16 is anything but bad, bad thing.

    Sex before the age of 16 is BAD.

    If I had my way I would raise the age of consent to 18 which is the legal age for most other things. so if a young woman becomes pregnant she can find work, seek out her own medical care and provide for her child.

    Having the age of consent at a6 only provides an opening for insecure men who feel incompetent to have consensual sex with adult women.

    Sex before the age of 16 is BAD.

  21. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    733 children
    1-man protest
    Now you can understand how the IDB/whoever thought they would get away with denying the children/parent their rights.
    Now you can understand HOW the Min of Ed can force principals and teachers out of the classroom when children are in the classroom.
    Now you can understand why the Min of Ed felt there was no need to inform parents or that parental approval was necessary.

    Previously, I said there were two balls on the island and the owner was a woman. Guess, I was wrong, there are double my estimate.

  22. GP Avatar
    GP

    RE In December 1960, the first District Hospital was opened. Its area of operation was the highly populated Oistins district and at the time provided 20 beds for persons seeking care.
    THIS IS BULL SHIT
    THE ST MICHAEL District Hospital was opened. BEFORE THIS BECAUSE IT ACTED AS A HURRICANE SHELTER IN 1955 FOR HURICANE JANET .
    WONDER HOW I KNOW DAT NEH?

    ARTAX
    RE “I am no health expert,” either. And, I don’t know anything about “the surrounding areas from Bay Land all the way up to Brittons Hill; Dayrells Road etc.”
    I LIVED IN THE BAYLAND AND THEN AT THE TOP OF ROUTE 15 FOR THE FIRST 20 YEARS OF MY LIFE

    RE I believe there is a significant DIFFERENCE between a PUBLIC HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, and a NATIONAL HEALTH CARE system.

    NB: THERE IS INDEED a significant DIFFERENCE between a PUBLIC HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, and a NATIONAL HEALTH CARE system.

    NB. PUBLIC HEALTH CARE WAS DESIGNED MORE FOR PREVENTATIVE COMMUNITY MEDICNE LIKE STD’S MATERNAL& CHILD HEALTH

    RE Perhaps a better term would be a national health care POLICY. I AGREE

    A NATIONAL HEALTH CARE INVOLVES PRIVATE HEALTH CARE PROVISION, INSURANCE ETC ALONG WITH PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURES AND PUBLIC HEALTH. PUBLIC HEALTH IS A MEDICAL SPECIALTY

    RE I’m sure those community clinics were NOT FULLY EQUIPPED to provide a wide range of health care services that polyclinics are currently able to provide.
    YOU ARE INDEED CORRECT SIR

    I believe a national health care system would’ve been responsible for the establishment of polyclinics, which perhaps replaced those community clinics over a period of time.

    INDEED THESE WERE BEGINNING TO BE ESTABLISHED AROUND 1981 OR SO

    For example, and Dr. GP could correct me if I’m wrong, but, I believe the Maurice Byer Polyclinic replaced the Speightstown community clinic. INDEED. AND IT IS POORLY SITED DESPITE THE GIVEN ADVICE

    I think you have separate public clinics from national health care services..INDEED I DID IN CLEAR PERFECT ENGLISH

  23. John Avatar
    John

    Cuhdear BajanOctober 9, 2022 7:17 PM

    Both of my parents, who both died in this 21st century were eye and ear witnesses to the 1938 rebellion.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I never knew we had a rebellion a year after the 1937 riots.

    You taught me something new about Barbadian history.

  24. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    Something like this galls me.
    ” I asked a few questions of my teacher friends early in this debate and thus fully recognized this was another cluster ‘fess-up’. ”

    There is a range of opinions on this issue, but some small select group has the correct answer. Sorry dude, I will do my thinking for myself.

  25. Norris Avatar
    Norris

    Look how you fools hijacked the topic about clinics as if it matters.

  26. John Avatar
    John

    TheOGazertsOctober 9, 2022 9:19 PM

    Here is a concept to chew on
    “The Fruit of the Poisonous Tree doctrine (also known as the Derivative Evidence Doctrine) is a rule in criminal law that makes evidence that was derived from an illegal search, arrest or interrogation inadmissible.”

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Trump should be cool following the raid on his house using an unspecific search warrant!!

  27. GP Avatar
    GP

    THIS IS BU LOGIC
    IN 1950 WATSON AND CRICK ARE SAID TO HAVE DESCRIBED THE STRUCTURE OF DNA
    I WAS NOT BORN THEN
    SO ANYTHING I SAY OR TEACH ABOUT DNA IS INCORRECT

    Both of SIMPLE SIMON’S parents, who both died in this 21st century were eye and ear witnesses to the 1938 rebellion,
    HENCE HER OPINION ABOUT BY BEING TAUGHT ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH SYSTEM OF BARBADOS AS TAUGHT TO ME BY DR BYER IS INCORRECT..

    TOM ADAMS WAS A MIDDLE CLASS BOY
    THEREFORE AFTER LIVING IN THE UK FOR ABOUT 19 YEARS HE PROBABLY KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT THE UK NHS

    TOM ADAMS WAS A MIDDLE CLASS BOY
    THEREFORE IT WOULD NEVER OCCUR TO HIM TO DEVELOP A NHS FOR BDOS LIKE THE UK NHS

  28. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    Hants
    536 comments.

    It would be good if a lawyer would step forward and try to frame the discussion in terms of the rights of parents and children; the action of the teachers and principals in terms of neglect and dereliction of duty; and if instructions from the Min of Ed are in agreement with the laws of Barbados.

    This is a topic where only the surface has been scratched. Some would like to wrap this in a nice tidy package and state “it is a nothing burger”. I am no lawyer, but I know a violation of rights and an abuse of authority when I see them.

  29. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    @John
    🙂
    I try not to do Trump. Sometimes I fail.
    I try not to do Biden. Never failed.
    I Try not to do Ukraine
    I try not to do the hallucinogenic posts

    Got me a meat an potato issue right here.

  30. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    Going
    https://barbadostoday.bb/2022/10/09/anglican-church-greatly-concerned-about-education-ministrys-survey-controversy/

    It is a rehash of what was said here but comes from the church.

    From BT
    Maxwell expressed the Anglican Church’s deep concern about the situation, “which involves a very important demographic within our society,” adding that it should be constructively addressed “to ensure that there is never a repeat of an incident of this nature”.

    “Legally, ethically and practically, parents or guardians should have been informed and consent sought so that families would have had the choice to opt out of such an exercise,” he said.

    “This is particularly important, because in an age of data privacy and based on what has been reported so far, the information gleaned from those students seems deeply personal and sensitive and could have potentially been used against them.”

    Maxwell said the following questions need to be raised and addressed:

    Why was the test not reviewed by a Ministry of Education official before final administration, given the reported initial objections to a number of areas?

Would the test be now administered to other children with the removal of the questionable items? If so, What is the ultimate validity and robust nature of the results?

Does the Ministry of Education have a standard ethics body responsible for creating guidelines and or oversight for the testing of all students under their care?

What provisions will now be made for the mental health care of the participants who have been adversely affected by their participation in the survey, and who will finance this treatment?

    According to Maxwell, the matter goes beyond an issue of the questions being offensive, “and may very well be described as an act of abuse and a wider agenda being pursued”.

    —x—
    Have a great night y’all.
    Fight for your rights.

  31. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Theo, I submit to your more assertive remark that I “missed the point (completely).” Some come here to discuss the issues honestly some to prance and posture. Smartly continue doing you … as indeed myself and all others will!

    And that “Something like this [would] gall [you].” is hilariously insightful. The fact that I sought first hand knowledge of the issue does not take away from anyone’s opinion or make mine right. SMH!!! It merely provides me with more informed analysis. What is so difficult to grasp or understand about that. Don’t you all do that daily when you refer to what someone in BT or the Nation or Times said!

    @SimpleSimon, I can only SMH in amusement at some of your posts. Pray tell how your end of day pickup would equate to my remark of kids not being as active during lunch or break and rather being “settled at the coolest nook chatting and smooching.” And why would you so ridiculously take that ‘literally’ that the boy and girl relaxing together must be first formers necessarily. Are you suggesting by your remarks that only by DOING these adolescents can KNOW of sexual issues!

    Shocking and amusing!!!

    That both of you have adopted such very strange practices in discussing this issue is amusing … or as @William said (not about either of you, let me hastily add) is gross “intellectual dishonesty.”

    BTW @Simple what’s the point of interrogating the accomplished practioner in his area of competency??? That fact the man has been arrogant and condescending to you, myself and many others here does not DENY his knowledge or what he has done. Your historical journey of health clinics etc. was interesting but it did not refute the man’s own historical narrative or the validity of his claims.

    As the Blogmaster says often: play the ball, not the man.

    Enough for the day. Peace out.

  32. John Avatar
    John

    My eldest nephew was born at St. Joseph in 1982.

    From what I remember it was in what would once have been Ashton Hall plantation yard.

    Very peaceful setting.

  33. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @ JohnFellow, please don’t start here with your own ridicule and mocking re “Trump should be cool following the raid on his house using an unspecific search warrant!!

    That’s a lark .. a rather lame one too!

    Anyhow … no more trumpet BS for now. There will be time enough for that.

  34. John Avatar
    John

    Came across these infant mortality rates for Barbados from 1907-1937, unbelievably high, as high as 416/1000 in 1912.

    https://imgur.com/QkdaQJj

    By 1960 it had fallen to 70/1000

    Today it is 11/1000

    Pretty interesting to see what happened between 1938 and 1970 when compared with Jamaica and Trinidad.

    Both of those islands had far larger economies than did Barbados.

    In 1938 we had almost double the Infant mortality of Jamaica and Trinidad.

    https://imgur.com/VBluEpe

  35. John Avatar
    John

    This is a good link.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/25613076#metadata_info_tab_contents

  36. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    Better reporting in Bim would be the first blush interpretation. There is no other practical answer as you clearly have already surmised.

    And the point of this historical reference is…!

  37. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    Well actually better reporting and smaller areas to cover. Beyond large economy in $$ and production etc they obviously also have much larger populations and no better medical care as far as one knows … or are you suggesting that someone had already patented an excellent health care service across Jamaica and TnT but not Bim!🤣

    Ok…enough larking for the day. End.

  38. John Avatar
    John

    de pedantic DribblerOctober 9, 2022 10:53 PM

    Better reporting in Bim would be the first blush interpretation. There is no other practical answer as you clearly have already surmised.

    And the point of this historical reference is…!

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The reference is the source of the infant mortality data.

    I think the reason why infant mortality in Barbados was so much higher was more than likely access to safe drinking water. Unlike Barbados, there are significant rivers in Jamaica and Trinidad.

    I know from my discussions with Sir Maurice Byer who would have been in public health probably from the 1940’s that water was key to solving the high infant mortality. In addition, sugar was in demand during and after WWII so our economy produced the $$$ to invest in public health services.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_of_Jamaica

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_of_Trinidad_and_Tobago

    It was the same colonial operation that dealt with health albeit on a far larger scale in Jamaica and Trinidad, so I doubt the difference was due to reporting.

    Their economies would have also been booming at the time ours boomed.

  39. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    Not certain what strange practices I adopted. On intellectual dishonesty, let’s agree to diSagree. If that makes you intellectually honest and makes me dishonest … such is life

  40. TheOGazerts Avatar
    TheOGazerts

    Typo Monday…
    This no tempest in a teapot. This is a gross violation of the rights of citizens of Barbados.

  41. Enuff Avatar
    Enuff

    “You sound like the idiot young boy who has done nothing to prove himself and has no track record except being a BLP stool pigeon and speaking on a BLP platform when he was 13 who partisan fools want to act as he is credible when all he is merely an empty vessel and parrot.”

    Poor you!
    Khaleel Kothdiwala isn’t and would not be taking my position on this topic. He is a politician, I am not. We can’t properly reform our education system without the type of data and useful information that would result from the questions posed. I would love to see the responses based on primary school, secondary school, parents’ level of education/profession, and other social and economic data. Our problem is that we are too set in our ways when it comes to certain topics. All of you know the few questions you really find objectionable. Cuss muh!

  42. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    @Enuff
    “We can’t properly reform our education system without the type of data and useful information that would result from the questions posed”
    I suspect your unmitigated support for party, may lead you down the wrong path.
    Read the other thread by Niel Harper to appreciate the legal issues around data collection.
    The issue is not research, nor that it can be beneficial, but HOW it was done. It was illegal.

  43. de pedantic Dribbler Avatar
    de pedantic Dribbler

    @Enuff that is incredible PR spin. Rational people accept that surveys like this are necessary … but this was absolutely not fit for purpose as soon as the subterfuge was done.

    And as clearly noted it is indeed illegal.

    So capture the info surely but let your admin seek proper approval of all parents who wish to have their children participate… anything else is unacceptable.

  44. Enuff Avatar
    Enuff

    PR spin? For whom? Both of you clearly have not followed all my posts. Y’all missed where I stated my disagreement with the process. I support the questions for children at 11.

  45. NorthernObserver Avatar
    NorthernObserver

    @Enuff
    LOL…you support fooping, but not on a public beach.
    The content, or appropriateness, of the questions for an 11yo is beyond my training. Yet ANY QUESTION in the manner in which the ‘test’ was conducted is illegal. The IADB must know better?

  46. Enuff Avatar
    Enuff

    NO

    Me and public beach fooping? I say foop down the beach. No disagreement between us on the execution.

  47. Cuhdear Bajan Avatar
    Cuhdear Bajan

    @Enuff October 10, 2022 10:14 AM “We can’t properly reform our education system without the type of data and useful information that would result from the questions posed.

    My response: If the Ministry of Education just needed data to use in the education reform exercises why were the children asked to include their full names, dates of birth and school addresses?

    @Enuff October 10, 2022 10:14 AM “I would love to see the responses based on primary school, secondary school, parents’ level of education/profession, and other social and economic data.”

    My response: We would all love to see Enuff’s responses to the same questions based on primary school, secondary school, parents’ level of education/profession, and other social and economic data

    @Enuff October 10, 2022 10:14 AM “Our problem is that we are too set in our ways when it comes to certain topics.”

    My response: Your problem is that you are too set in your ways when it comes to certain topics, because I would bet my first born son that you are not man Enuff to answer this question for the BU people, and attach your real name, date of birth and place of work to your answer

    DO YOU SEE AND HEAR THINGS THAT OTHER PEOPLE DO NOT SEE OR HEAR???

    OK man up and publicly answer the question. Add your real names. Your date of birth and the address of your workplace [or home] to the answer.

    Days ago I asked PPD the same question and he has not yet grown balls enough to answer that question in public either.

    And yet we expect 10 and 11 year olds to do what we adults do not have the courage to do?

    Do you have balls enough to answer the question or have you suddenly become impotent?

    I am also asking this question of all 30 members of our Parliament, and especially of our Cabinet members.

    DO YOU SEE AND HEAR THINGS THAT OTHER PEOPLE DO NOT SEE OR HEAR???

  48. John Avatar
    John

    Cuhdear BajanOctober 10, 2022 8:45 PM

    DO YOU SEE AND HEAR THINGS THAT OTHER PEOPLE DO NOT SEE OR HEAR???

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Unequivocally yes.

    I constantly see things that people other people do not see every time I solve a problem no one else can solve.

    I hear the voice of my conscience often telling me I am doing wrong.

    I suspect most people are like me.

  49. John Avatar
    John

    I think that our children will be just fine, they are as tough as nails.

    It is we adults who have the problem.

    Our problem stems from the fact that we left our children to the wiles of the world because we were too busy to care.

    We did not listen to the voices of our consciences, and they have now convicted us.

    We did not see what was before us and led our children into the morass.

    Do you know that the Closed Brethren have had their own school since the early 1990’s?

    They saw the evil and heard the voices of their consciences and acted to suit.

    So, what are we going to do?

    Look at what has happened in America as the evil is being confronted first by a few adults who saw things and heard voices no one else saw or heard.

    Attention needs to be paid to the people who see and hear things long before others.

  50. John Avatar
    John

    One solution may be homeschooling.

    Here we rely mostly on the Government so we submit our students to the 11+ and hope our child will get into better schools.

    Like Queens College!!

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