It is not my intention to engage in a tit-for-tat with the Honourable Prime Minister, Ms Mia Mottley. But I would consider it a dereliction of duty if I did not respond to what I consider to be erroneous assertions made by her while explaining her role in the creation of a second post of Deputy Commissioner in the Royal Barbados Police Force.
Ms Mottley maintains that she was entitled to create that post by virtue of the power she has, as Minister with responsibility for the Public Service, in accordance with section 13.(1) of the Public Service Act. I am of the view that the Minister of the Public Service has the power to create posts in the Public Service but that power is limited by section 6 of the Police Act which allows the Minister to create posts in the Force from Assistant Commissioner down to constable. I will leave that alone for the time being and concentrate on the power to create post generally.
Among other things, section 13.(1) states:
The Minister May by order
(a) establish offices in the Public Service;
(b) determine the number of persons who may be appointed to those offices…
However, that subsection does not give the Minister cart blanche to just create posts by the stroke of the pen without more. The power is circumscribed by section 13.(3) which states:
Subject to subsection (4), an order made under subsection (1) shall be subject to affirmative resolution.”
In order to give a complete picture, subsection (4) states:
“Subsection (3) shall not apply to any order that relates to the qualifications required in respect of the offices in the Public Service.
The operative term in subsection (3) is “subject to affirmative resolution” which is defined at section 41.(5) of the Interpretation Act, Chapter 1 of the Laws of Barbados. It states:
The expression “subject to affirmative resolution” when used in relation to any statutory instruments or statutory documents shall mean that such instruments or documents shall not come into operation unless and until affirmed by a resolution of each House.
Even if the Prime Minister had the power to create a second post of Deputy Commissioner of Police, she would be required to lay the order in Parliament. And that order must be approved by both Houses before it is effective.
To my certain knowledge, as of the date of writing this rebuttal (May 18, 2020) the resolution to give effect to an order to create another post of Deputy Commissioner, has never been approved and does not appear on the Order Paper of either the House of Assembly or the Senate. This therefore means that legally there can be no second post of Deputy Commissioner of Police in the Royal Barbados Police Force.
Without wanting to appear arrogant, I believe that this matter is now beyond doubt and I don’t think that the PM should give another tit or tat but an apology would be appropriate.
139 responses to “Senator Caswell Franklyn Speaks – Mock Police Part 2”
This submission appears to be quite tightly argued. I suggest that the procedures for rectifying this oversight be followed as soon as possible.
Of course we recognize that it was an attempt to right a wrong. But we need to do the right things right.
Just my two cents worth.
this matter was seemingly settled when the AG issued his mea culpa and promised to amend the Police Act notwithstanding the issue of legality of the order in reference the Public Service Act, laid but not affirmed by parliament, which the AG either forget or didnt think had relevance
that is until the PM decided to speak on the matter and opened a can of worms so to speak.
on the face of it, it appears that Franklyn has presented a strong case in rebuttal.
but we shall soon hear from the Koolaid Kid
This matter is quite drained of all of its capacity for discussion. It is either completely lawful, or simply in need of rectification. I’ve been saying from the very beginning that it’s a non-issue. If it was a non-issue then, with each passing day it becomes even more so. It leaves persons to wonder what is the objective? It shall either be fixed if there is a need to, or left, if there is no need.
@Khaleel Kothdiwala May 19, 2020 10:32 AM
“I’ve been saying from the very beginning that it’s a non-issue.”
++++++++++++++++++
A very disappointing response Khaleel. I had hoped that your generation was more resistant to the regrettable pattern of acting like Yard Fowls rather than exercising independent judgement.
We now have around 40 percent (!!!) unemployment.
And what is the opposition doing, especially the Senator? They fight over the smallest details of civil service law instead of courageously discussing the question of wage cuts and dismissals in the civil service.
If this continues, we will soon face a situation similar to that in Venezuela with this opposition.
@ PL Thompson May 19, 2020 10:41 AM
“A very disappointing response Khaleel. I had hoped that your generation was more resistant to the regrettable pattern of acting like Yard Fowls rather than exercising independent judgement.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
I am equally disappointed by this contemptuous response. What defines independent judgement? And more particularly, who defines independent judgement?
@ Khaleel Kothdiwala May 19, 2020 10:32 AM
How about this KK (not the Koolaid Kid)?
The appointment of the ‘second’ DCoP is both legal and valid as long as the instrument confirming that appointment carries the Public Seal used by the GG.
Do you agree?
@ Khaleel Kothdiwala,
A citizen of Barbados, who is 18 years of age or older, and has resided in an electoral constituency for at least three months prior to the Qualifying Date.
If you were an adult your presence on BU would be understandable but you are too young to be wasting time here.
The adults are treating you with kid’s gloves…..so far.
@Miller
“The appointment of the ‘second’ DCoP is both legal and valid as long as the instrument confirming that appointment carries the Public Seal used by the GG.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I cannot pass comment on hypothetical conditions in a vacuum. To do so, would be to blissfully ignore the inherent complexity of the scenario.
@Khaleel
You and you alone do not decide what is a non issue.
@ David May 19, 2020 11:13 AM
Unlike most people, I do not presume to impose myself upon others, so that intervention is lost on me. You make your own mind up. If 1000 comments later one can’t see the issue for what it is, then I can’t help you.
How can the subject matter be a non issue if the PM, AG, and other political opposition in the country see the value in responding to the Senator? A scan of traditional media will also support it has been occupying editors and the like. One should not oppose for the sake of it, soon credibility will diminish. Nothing wrong with supporting your party but be dispassionate in your interventions IF you want to have opinions given weight by Independent thinkers on the blog. Not every issue must be distilled with a political eye. Not every issue is a zero sum game.
@ David May 19, 2020 11:24 AM
What you ignore is that all too often non-issues spend far too much time occupying the popular consciousness while substantive issues of real import are left by the wayside. Is that not partially why so little changes or will ever change?
@Khaleel
Yours is purely subjective. The blogmaster does not consider himself the smartest guy on the blog but there is enough fog around a faulty process here that needs to be effectively resolved. Bear in mind this issue may appear sterile to some but when taken with a growing ethos of indiscipline within Civil Establishment/public service in recent years many of us have to prick our ears until we are satisfied a sincere effort is being made to attack these issues.
@ David
Recent years? A straight line can be drawn from 1974 and before that and your “growing ethos of indiscipline”.
top male student in CSEC History, very good work in CSEC Economics and a prize for excellence in debating
@R
I have complimented and I have criticize the man.
The man refuses to stay in one box and I have tailored my comments to suit.
HAGD
@ Hants at 11:57 AM
A very good start. It is not the end of the journey. These are mere mile stones along the path to success/ wisdom. There is much more to be learnt.
@KK
David was very gentle with you., almost fatherly.
Please reread his comment and think about them.
Sometimes silence is a good response
@David:
“One should not oppose for the sake of it, soon credibility will diminish. Nothing wrong with supporting your party but be dispassionate in your interventions IF you want to have opinions given weight by Independent thinkers on the blog. Not every issue must be distilled with a political eye. Not every issue is a zero sum game.”
Thanks David. Hopefully he will listen,but it is doubtful. If he does not listen to you, the long knives will soon come out. I am reminded of “Common sense ain’t so Common”.
@ Vincent Codrington,
K K is clearly very intelligent and has accomplished a lot so far but he should avoid BU politics.
There is a thin line between yard chicken and party supporter.
@ Khaleel Kothdiwala May 19, 2020 11:33 AM
It is good to know that the young intellectuals support Mia Mottley. On the other hand, those who don’t know their decimal places are better off with DLP.
Please do not become discouraged by the phalanx of blue grandees here on BU. They fear your sharp mind.
david
I see it as the young man KK just expressing his views that it is a non issue.
Just that, his opinion, like everyone else does here on BU.
I am sure he is well aware that he is not the one that determines what is a non issue but can he not have /share his opinion if that what he feels about the topic?
John2
Agree. What does age have to do with an opinion? There’s no need for the name calling either, he is young and willing to blog under his name. Unlike the majority of us. Some of the same accusers, however, tolerate and support lie after lie from grown ups on the blog.
All those sweeping powers went to Mia’s head…..yo
Kahleel can’t even vote yet, but he will learn and i hope he does without negative consequences. It’s always better to be on the outside looking in, you get a better sense of clarity and learn more; but, you cannot be looking up to corrupt politicians, lawyers, ministers or anyone else who is nonprogressive and do not have the best interests of the majority population who look just like them at heart, have no good intentions for the people as a collective and think everyone around them are potential fowls.
there is no future in any of that….as there has been not enough in the last 60 years, that is one of the reasons everything is now degraded to a point that is harder to move away from, if he asks the elders in his community he would get a better sense of what life was like in the 60s and 70s, he himself should have found better when he came along, never settle for mediocrity from any government to whom you have to pay a salary….
a keen mind digests information and uses a functioning brain to PROCESS all the information analytically and critically…that way you can never go wrong, it’s called information useful in making informed decisions..
…..focus less on paper achievement, they too can be admired as they can be useful in further achievement and to get them requires much effort. but they are useful only in the paper world., networking is much more powerful and is required even if you have a ton of paper…
…Most people don’t even know that everyone has a naturally BUILTIN intelligence that cannot be replaced and it goes hand in hand with COMMONSENSE…..combine that with your paper knowledge and it’s a win win…but the paper is not better than nor more significant than the intelligence with which you were born and is available to use, all you have to do is tap right in..
and oh…ya never stop learning..
my good deed for the day, someone just gave me a badass pep talk
“Some of the same accusers, however, tolerate and support lie after lie from grown ups on the blog.”
ah trying to analyze this one…SO.
..why does Fowl Enuff support LIES from Mia and Dale…the servants of the people..
…supports theft of taxpayer’s money
…theft of pensioner’s money
….supports criminals like maloney, cow bizzy, bjerkham etc ROBBING THE PEOPLE…year after year…
…supports CORRUPTION in the judiciary as well as political interference
and last but not least
supports interference in the taxpayer funded POLICE FORCE…don’t mind all that shite about Royal….cousin can go to hell….Bajan taxpayers fund that police force, so why can’t Fowl Enuff have respect for it….as a grown ass woman….and have some respect for her own people who HAVE TO FUND EVERYTHING ON THE ISLAND…
The PM is a good leader and much loved by the people One therefore hates to see a chink in her armour. I am not a lawyer but what was glaringly obvious was the fact the AG acknowledged a mistake was made and will be corrected. The PM’s response therefore did two (2) things raised questions about the AG’s legal knowledge if the PM is right or showed the extent the PM will go to protect her own if wrong.
One can reasoned that this matter is also being noted by the criminal underbelly of this country who might very well lose respect for the very things we want them to uphold, law and order plus the AG.
Another variable that has been overlooked is that the ‘Deputy Assistant Commissioner’ is very well qualified to function at the level under contention.
However every effort should be made to avoid promotion conflicts in the Police Force because these officers can be asked to put their lives on the line. A matter like Covid-19 is just a minor blimp for them. There are front line workers therefore putting any resentment in their midst should be avoided.
In summary, the error can and should be corrected and the need and tone used to proclaim rightness controlled. Human beings are fallible and will make mistakes but perceived errors like this can negatively impact our society. Though subject to interpretation, the law is evidence base. There should therefore not be a whiff of possible scandal in matters like this
@David well stated above at 11:24 AM. I must admit that like you I was taken aback when he choose to label the matter as a “non-issue”. I relegated him at that moment to ‘sycophant’ rather than rational political neophyte … one hopes, however, that he develops to be more reasoned and thoughtful!
But that apart, wait a minute folks are we SERIOUSLY questioning the lad’s youthful political exuberance as a negative? What’s that about!
How quickly we forget it seems… did not Liz Thompson, Mia Mottley, David Thompson and to a lesser degree David Commissiong not all display similar preternatural tendencies in another era … that’s the one I know directly and there is NOTHING about the lad besides the now vast reach of social media that sets him apart from any of them.
Could anyone tell the Senator killing David or the whipper-snapper, sharp Liz to chill because they were too young and green behind the ears … LOL
Water will find it’s natural level .. and so too do political aspirants… sometimes they have to do what @Pieces would saintly describe as lot of ‘derriere smooching’ to get to their sustainable level … ideally this lad doesn’t have to become a ‘Pope’ of smooching in order to get where he wants to!
“How quickly we forget it seems… did not Liz Thompson, Mia Mottley, David Thompson and to a lesser degree David Commissiong not all display similar preternatural tendencies in another era ”
Did not work out well for most of the people though….so that is a nonstarter..plus a different era…
he has people who can guide him, two generations before did not have that level of intelligence nor the tools needed, this is the information age….maybe if that era of politicians weren’t so anal and full of shit like true colonial slaves…maybe, but that was different times..
@Khaleel Kothdiwala May 19, 2020 10:48 AM
“What defines independent judgement?”
++++++++++++++++++++++
1. Facts
2. Logic
3. Empathy
It’s not complicated…
@KK
“It leaves persons to wonder what is the objective?”[quote]
did you know the pensions for the public service, are based solely on the FINAL year of earnings?
Most private plans require a contribution from both the employee and employer, and the pensions are based on an average of the final 3 years of earnings.
The Senator even alluded to this, in the prior thread.
Many moons ago, I worked for a large chemical conglomerate. I got to attend a senior management meeting at HQ. I was flabbergasted. Instead of discussing how we might limit the liability of a product prone to early life-cycle failure, they discussed how to INCREASE its sales!!! That night I called my mentor, who was of the vintage of most attendees, seeking explanation. Without hesitation, he replied “pensions”. And, ‘the decision to enter that business was put forth and approved by many in the room’. Then “when they retire, it will be your job to clean it up. Until then, they are maximizing their pensions”. Truthfully, at age 28, the concept of pensions, had not entered my mind. Nor the impact on their earnings (read performance bonuses) should we curtail sales without a ready replacement.
Your help please with an item here Honourable One
Before de ole man AND (now) PROPHET continues (and to all BU bloggers who wish to speak to de ole man, please do not forget to address me by my honorific heheheheh) I will take another moment to highlight a very salient thread of thought from DpD
He says and I quote
“…Water will find it’s natural level .. and so too do political aspirants… sometimes they have to do what @Pieces would saintly describe as lot of ‘derriere smooching’ to get to their sustainable level … ideally this lad doesn’t have to become a ‘Pope’ of smooching in order to get where he wants to!…”
Few people understand the power of Barbados Underground!
It is for this reason that the 15 of the Mugabe Defence Force have been sent to BU TO KILL ALL DISSENT!
And by dissent, what de ole man means is that, while 1 or 2 remarks against Mugabe Mottley are permitted to get by, THE CONSTANT, REPETITIVE, INCESSANT, CONTINUOUS COMMENTS AGAINST Mugabe by some of you here (heheheheheheheh) are very much disliked.
De ole man has been warning people like Tron, ye olde sexton, to stop his anti-Mugabe jesting for a long time now, but does he listen to de ole man WHOM HE NOW CALLS PROPHET!
NOOOOOOOO! he continues to make these slide remarks that highlight he great leader Mugabe!
But Mugabe is monitoring Tron’s house phone and his computer and his smart phone and all the inciting conversations that Tron continues to have on his official Facebook Page heheheheheh
Man-Chile want to be a politician and to all intents and purposes will become one. But he has not be trained to be a patriot, he has been coached in the divisive an hominem that the DLP and BLP breeds
What he has done here on BU is begin that career!
He continues to use his youth as a shield that permits him to insult those of you who he can insult, (heheheheheheheh de ole man is impervious to insults) cause wunna frighten to cuss he likkle Over ripe Man Chile, while earning the notice of Mugabe Mottley.
His type IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE because he does not know any better as well as the fact that he does not see any reason to change given that he is goaded on by the other 14.
When de ole man is gone from this sphere, he will remain here
In looking at him now and in his future de ole Prophet is reminded of the poem by Khalil Gibran titled “said a Sheet of Snow White Paper…”
“…Said a sheet of snow-white paper, “Pure was I created, and pure will I remain for ever. I would rather be burnt and turn to white ashes than suffer darkness to touch me or the unclean to come near me.”
The ink-bottle heard what the paper was saying, and it laughed in its dark heart; but it never dared to approach her. And the multi-coloured pencils heard her also, and they too never came near her.
And the snow-white sheet of paper did remain pure and chaste for ever, pure and chaste — and empty…”
Khaleel prefers to suffer the darkness that is Mugabe Mottley, he will relish in the unclean swill of this despot content in his uncleanliness AND THEREFORE WE MUST LEAVE HIM BE
@ Senator Caswell Franklyn
De ole man get carried away trying to explain to the bloggers here the Man-Chile Distraction
But de ole man will mention that these two articles will exceed all counts for all others of the articles on this blog
De rest does get sidetracked regularly but heheheheheheh de ole man doan get sidetracked.
You said and I quote “…Even if the Prime Minister had the power to create a second post of Deputy Commissioner of Police, she would be required to lay the order in Parliament.
And that order must be approved by both Houses before it is effective…”
People heah say dat de ole man is closely attached to you anteriorly heheheheheheh.
And dem wonders why I like you so.
Whu de ole man could be a DLP-ite of a Mugabe Defense Force man or a ISO Talibanist so why you Patriot Franklyn?
Cause you does keep it real!!!
“…she would be required to lay the order in Parliament and that order must be approved by both Houses before it is effective…”
Any reasonable and reasoning bajan can understand that statement but de ole man continues to support you as you point out that the people need to be made aware that their interest ARE NOT MUGABE’s interest and if one goes to sleep for a moment ALL IS LOST UNDER THIS DICTATOR!!
https://imgur.com/ziJNCiN
@ Senator Caswell Franklyn
So de grandson sent this and here is what de ole man understands about this Affirmative Action thing
https://imgur.com/a/GPeMDhN
So if i understand correctly
“Section 41.(5) of the Interpretation Act, Chapter 1 of the Laws of Barbados. It states:
The expression “subject to affirmative resolution” when used in relation to any statutory instruments or statutory documents shall mean that such instruments or documents shall not come into operation unless and until affirmed by a resolution of each House….”
So once again Mugabe has been encouraging the 30 hoares to brek de Laws of Barbados?
But dat is Mugabe just showing she real colours Senator
where all de rest?
You censoring de ole man because my other comments are not what you want to see bout you golden boys right?
heheheheheheheheh 3
3 of dem you holding back
heheheheheheheheheeh
But you calling youself George Linnaeus Banks
If Ms. Mockley can create a mock leader of the opposition and all the associated trappings like mock opposition senators and a mock parliament, what’s the problem with a mock police?
@ senator Franklyn
You said and I quote
“…To my certain knowledge, as of the date of writing this rebuttal (May 18, 2020) the resolution to give effect to an order to create another post of Deputy Commissioner, has never been approved and does not appear on the Order Paper of either the House of Assembly or the Senate.
This therefore means that legally there can be no second post of Deputy Commissioner of Police in the Royal Barbados Police Force…”
https://imgur.com/N3wt6Yr
” Strict guardians of our heritage
Firm craftsmen of our fate “
@ Piece the Prophet May 20, 2020 2:03 AM
You live in an alternative reality. I use neither smartphone nor facebook.
@ John May 20, 2020 3:53 AM
“If Ms. Mockley can create a mock leader of the opposition and all the associated trappings like mock opposition senators and a mock parliament, what’s the problem with a mock police?”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Have you, the BU mathematical genius, managed to figure how to get a ‘Majority’ from a ‘total’ of ONE?
We have a new whiz kid on the BU block called KK who has managed to cut the leader of the opposition into TWO ‘half-persons’; with 50 % representing the majority of members NOT supporting the government and the other 50% supporting the half-man LoO.
30-0!!!
Get a majority from that!!
Nothing from Nothing leaves Nothing.
Or, ZERO is ZERO!!
Even Billy Preston knows that!!
As the ones who first encouraged your rejoinder to the Mugabe of our times, we must admit that this area of law is wholly unfamilar to us.
Your arguments seem to hold some merit. However, as you already know, that this is not so much of a strict legal matter as it is political.
However, nobody has to tell you that you will always have our critical support. You, not your leader.
@ Millsy
“Have you, the BU mathematical genius, managed to figure how to get a ‘Majority’ from a ‘total’ of ONE?
We have a new whiz kid on the BU block called KK who has managed to cut the leader of the opposition into TWO ‘half-persons’; with 50 % representing the majority of members NOT supporting the government and the other 50% supporting the half-man LoO.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
HM Loyal Barbados Opposition is wholly politically illegitimate, but entirely constitutional.
That fact is based on a very simple mathematical principle Millsy. You can derive a majority of any number. Strictly speaking of course, mathematically that reads that it is possible to calculate the value of more than 50% of any integer. If there are no MPs who do NOT support the Government, it is quite obvious that there can be no Opposition Leader, as no one opposes the Gov’t. If there are 9 members who do not support the government, the Governor General shall have cause to appoint the person who commands the confidence of 5 of those members or more. 50% of 9 is 4.5; one cannot obviously have parts of a person, and so the starting point is 5. If there is one member who does not support the government, mathematically the Leader of the Opposition would be the person who commands the confidence of more than 0.5 of that person. In reality, we know we can’t have fractions of people. However, the math holds. The LoO will be the person who enjoys the confidence of more than 0.5. 1 is more than 0.5, not so? Therefore, it doesn’t require a doctoral degree in this area of mathematics to figure out that 1 qualifies as a majority of 1, and in the case of persons is the only possible majority. A constitutional crisis would more likely arise in the case of an even number of Opposition MPs. While political maneuvering could ameliorate that in most cases, that is most difficult if there are only 2 persons on the Opposition benches. Had Kellman wished to be LoO, an immediate impasse would have occurred as it was only he and Thompson and as we have seen there cannot be fractions of a person. So that would be a crisis. However, no possible crisis could arise with an odd number of persons (1 is an odd number, correct Millsy?), unless there were more than two persons vying for the LoO position, and a plurality was achieved but no majority of the whole.
The math Millsy is pelucidly clear and remarkably simple.
But that does not take away from the political illegitimacy of the Official Opposition and its appointees. While the law relies upon mathematics, the same cannot be said for politics. While mathematics involves at its higher levels, relative truths, it is founded upon unwavering axioms of truth. In politics however, truth tends to be entirely relative.
Strictly speaking of course, mathematically that reads that it is possible to calculate the value of more than 50% of any integer.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Is zero an integer?
What is 50% of zero?
It is 30-0, not 29-1, or 28-2, or more possibly 27-3.
Yes John, zero is an integer. A neutral integer, as it is neither positive nor negative, but an integer nonetheless. And a simple calculation reveals that 50% of 0 is indeed zero, as would be any percentage of it, due to the nature of that integer. There is little consequence to the electoral result when choosing an Opposition Leader. It must be done based upon the composition of the House at the time of appointment and not a point in the past. Clearly, I am not a partisan of the Opposition and I reiterate that they are political illegitimates, but I am sufficiently honest to admit that legally the position of Atherley and his senators is unimpeachable.
@John May 20, 2020 11:06 AM “What is 50% of zero?”
50% of zero is half of zero, and just for you it is written like this, like half of a circle, thusly:
D
30-0 is a nullity!!
… and Reverent Joe was at pains after he was “sworn in” by the GG to portray himself as a supporter of the BLP
s programs … on national TV!!
Nullity, mock, take your pick!!