Former Prime Minister Freundel Stuart in a rare public appearance since the last general election delivered a speech last Sunday at the DLP St. Philip North branch meeting. Thanks to Piece the Legend for the following audio snippet. So far the blogmaster has not been able to locate the full speech by Stuart (some people will say disappointing).
Additional link posted by Ping Ping.
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i would ask you all to read the recommendations of the committee commissioned by Arthur to review the uni fee arrangement for bajans at UWI.
maybe David could post it. i believe Dr Shorey was head of the committee and MAM was the minister of education at the time.
i must say i am only talking about uni education.
my opinion is that we should move toward move technical education and only support degrees where they are a benefit to this country and in certain fields. if you want other degrees you should pay the economic cost or whatever they call it.
degrees generally speaking are highly overrated in my opinion and a good secondary education, experience and professional qualifications are just as good if not better than some nondescript degrees.
for disclosure purposes i have a graduate degree, several professional qualifications and i rely on my experience more than my degrees
another thing we are taxed for health care and more people pay privately than attend clinics. and clinics are abused simply because they are “free”.
to ask whether i understand that there is no such thing as free uni is quite misplaced for want of a better word.
@ David BU at 10 :11 AM
You may not have noticed ,but I have observed that those who have sought to ” win elections and stroke their popularity” have failed miserably in leaving a legacy. No one can point to anything of significance that they have done.
@Hal Austiin February 20, 2020 9:13 AM “You got the point. Merit and openness are important. Not just the sons and daughters of the big ups who went to Harrison college.”
Since you are interested in openness, let us try a little openness. I took a look at my tax files for the 10 year period before my youngest child started university. During that 10 year period I paid, $207,368 BDS in income taxes. I did not count the odd cents, which may add up to another $10 or so. I paid property taxes at about $1,000 BDS per year (I have not checked my property tax file for absolutely accuracy) I paid VAT on virtually everything including toilet paper, soap, sanitary napkins and condoms (can’t forget the condoms, as who can afford to raise more than one or two children). I certainly am nor rich, i certainly am not middle class. I took a bus and a ZR van to work every day. The youngest child is almost finished and I am relieved. I gave up cable television. I have not watched TV in nearly 4 years. I gave up even flushing my toilet unless I have done number 2, I grow much of my own food.
Sometimes people who live far away are completely unaware of how heavily taxed Bajans are, under both BLP and DLP governments. In fact we get nothing free. We pay, heavily for every single reeness.
I wonder if in a “make them pay” regime I would have had to pay, or if I would have been considered poor enough to benefit from the alleged “freeness.” If I have already paid hundreds of thousands of taxes where do I get the money from to pay some more as I am way too old to prostitute myself?
The only “ease” for me is that my children were born more than 10 years apart and I had the time to “catch myself” between the first and the second; and my second “ease” is that my family has an very high life expectancy as I have had to mortgage my soul to the banks, but I expect to retrieve it before my 85th birthday, but not much before.
@ Silly Woman February 20, 2020 5:51 AM
You got it upside-down. I know many readers are irritated that Tron, unlike almost everyone else, does not constantly speak ill of Barbados. But the truth is a precious commodity.
Have a look at the white tourists at the airport before they return: They all have a bad sunburn because they want to be dark skinned like Africans. Tanned skin is considered a sign of wealth in the north. This is the reality. If they talk bad about blacks, it’s because they are very jealous.
It’s also a great privilege to spend one’s remaining years in Barbados. Barbados is a dream island. The people are always in a good mood, very polite, not criminal and have manners in traffic. We have the smartest and most dynamic Prime Minister, the best music and the best rum. You can buy everything in Barbados, from drugs to DLP bureaucrats, Miele ovens and Grohe showers to Mercedes SUVs. In comparison, on the surrounding pepper islands you can only get rum and bullets.
So stop your whining. Paradise has always been very expensive. A wise man once told me you must be able to afford to live in Barbados. How right he was. Personally, I am very proud of Barbados, its culture, the local food and music.
I only complain about the low productivity, nothing else. But to be honest: Who wants to work in paradise instead of dreaming all day? 😉 🙂
@ Mr. Skinner
With all due respect, sir, as far as I could remember, the MAIN EVENT at last Sunday’s meeting was all about “Freundel speaking,”…… NOT Mia Mottley.
Secondly, you and others have made previous comments on BU, admonishing people for defending, for example, an action by the BLP by saying the DLP did something similar…… vice versa. Therefore, for you now to make those comments in your February 20, 2020 8:13 AM contributions, raise some questions.
Thirdly, if you want to go down that line, “in the interest of balanced commentary,” since Richie Haynes is no longer with us, then it would have been equally FAIR if we HAD ALSO ASKED you or other former NDP members, what were the reasons that led him to leave the DLP and form the NDP?
Did Haynes have a good relationship with Barrow, Sandiford and other members of the DLP?
Given his popularity at that time, why did he fail to push the NDP to a level that would have subsequently resonated with the electorate?
Wasn’t there any individual in the NDP, beyond Haynes, who could have developed the party into a force to be reckoned with and a viable alternative to the “duopoly?”
If the NDP presented itself as a viable “third party” option, after the party’s demise, why did some former members REJOINED the DLP or JOINED the BLP?
No offence intended…… but I don’t believe our political questions should be confined ONLY to the “duopoly.”
@ Simple Simon at 10 :41 AM
Again, I agree with you. The incidence of taxation in Barbados rivals those of some Scandinavian Countries. Like you, I am amused when “political yard fowls” and intellectually shallow commentators propagate the myth of “freeness”.
@ Vincent
If you want to enjoy a decent society then you have to pay. Our problem is that we need a hypothecated tax system. Let people know what they are paying for.
I suggest shifting funding away from silly degrees such as cultural studies, journalism, sociology, law and history, to a more technical education. Follow the Germans.
@ Artax
I have written at least three articles in BU regarding the NDP. I have no quarrel with what you have written about the NDP/Haynes
My main contention is that both parties that make up the Duopoly should be held to the same standard. Therefore whenever anybody attempts to highlight any negative within them, I am usually able to expose a similar pattern in the other.
My position is that they are six and half dozen. In response to your submission, I merely tried to establish that there is internal cannibalism within the Duopoly. It was certainly not an attempt to critique your position. I have long ceased to become immersed in BLP/DLP back and forth. I leave that to the more enlightened on BU.
BTW I don’t recall the NDP ever forming the government although at one stage it was the Opposition.
The Duopoly Rules
to pay or not to pay uni fees
http://www.ipsnews.net/1996/02/barbados-education-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/
students to pay some fees govt foots economic costs
https://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/51145/bajans-pay-tuition-fees-uwi-2014
a criticism of subsidised education
for avoidance of doubt i am saying that govt should pay what they are paying now for degrees that benefit the island whilst pushing more technical qualifications. if students want to read for degrees outside of that they should pay a fee whilst govt pay the economic cost
@ Greene
You are misunderstanding the purpose and objective of university education. University Education is NOT about technical education. All university education is of direct and indirect benefit to the citizens of Barbados.
Economic and social well-being is the output/outcome.
Correction. I think I should have keyboarded “solely about “
@Tron February 20, 2020 10:44 AM “Have a look at the white tourists at the airport before they return: They all have a bad sunburn because they want to be dark skinned like Africans. Tanned skin is considered a sign of wealth in the north.”
Because the sun burned tourists honestly but erroneously believe in the myth of the “Easy Going Laid Back South.”
Sun burns are bad, bad, bad. If you doubt me ask white Australians, or white Bajans. Sunburns are a precusor to high rates of malignant melanoma/skin CANCER in these populations.
But if the tourists like the sun so much they can always join me for a week of unpaid field labour instead of joining you for your perpetual lime on the beach, you lazy bum.
Vincent Codrington February 20, 2020 10:13 AM “Do you imagine how much worse it would be if we did not have publicly financed education?”
Barbados would be Haiti.
Barbados WAS Haiti when my parents first gt together in 1935, and when their second child nearly died of hunger in the care of my poorly educated parents during that time.
Were it not for publicly funded education Hal would not be a retired Daily Mail editor, and Greene would not have multiple master’s degrees.
We pay the taxes. Our children and our neighbour’s children,and other people’s children DESERVE a decent education, nursery, primary, secondary, and tertiary.
I am willing not to watch TV, not to flush my toilet more than once a day to ensure that that happens.
Because my children are not the only good deserving people in the Barbados.
Other people’s children are also good, also deserving, also of value to me and to this Bajan society and to the world.
Of course we deserve good, decent politicians and good decent bureaucrats, and a good decent private sector.
But to withdraw publicly funded education from the next generation was madness, is madness.
i was not educated in Bim beyond secondary school
VC,
AGAIN-
for avoidance of doubt i am saying that govt should pay what they are paying now for degrees that benefit the island whilst pushing more technical qualifications. if students want to read for degrees outside of that they should pay a fee whilst govt pay the economic cost
ArtaxFebruary 20, 2020 7:39 AM
@ Simple Simon
You cannot judge Stuart performance based on Donks Gripe and Greene, because they are DLP supporters. Stuart talking shiite about not “waking a sleeping giant” and “people in a dark room looking for a black cat,” would be described as “articulate and believable.”
You must also be aware the crowd may have not been predominately DLP supporters but would have included BLP supporters and neutral people that were curious to hear what Stuart had to say after being silent from October 23, 2010 to February 16, 2020 (approx. 9 years, 3 weeks).
Obviously, the meeting would have mixed reviews. The diehard DEMS would be quick to say Stuart did a fantastic job and he was “articulate and believable;” the BEES would say he was more ‘froth than beer;’ while the neutrals’ criticisms would be more rational and reasonable.
Additionally, the DEMS would obviously describe “his take down of Mottley using the oft repeated phrase to describe his reticence was nothing short of brilliant.”
That’s what it’s all about…… attack the opponent for laughs. And, you would notice, these are the issues the DEMS presented to BU to prove the meeting was a success.
Yes, Stuart is “magnificent speaker with a great command of the language and knows how to work the crowd.”
But, did he defend, for example, why there was a bureaucratic inertia of government during Thompson’s sickness until a few months after his death and burial?
Did he defend the 23 consecutive credit rating downgrades?
Did he defend telling Barbadians “not one civil servant will go home,” and subsequently surprised them with a retrenchment program that saw over 5,000 of them going home?
Did he explained the circumstances surrounding the failure of his economic policies, such as the:
….. Medium-term Development Strategy 2010-2014;
….. Medium-term Fiscal Strategy, 2010-2014;
….. Medium-term Growth & Development Strategy 2013-2020;
….. National Programme fr Sustainable Development.
….. the IMF “homegrown” structural adjustment programme 2013.
Did Stuart discuss the ‘mutiny’ of the “EAGER 11?” Those 11 dissatisfied MPs who, at that time, were seeking an “urgent audience” with him to discuss matters of “grave concern” pertaining to his LEADERSHIP and “to chart a path forward for the retention of our party in Government?”
This was one of the defining moments of his leadership he should have defended.
Stuart should have been “articulate and believable” on these issues, then “I could listen to him all day.”
“talk yuh talk Froons. I hope this is not the last we hear of you.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“But, did he defend, for example, why there was a bureaucratic inertia of government during Thompson’s sickness until a few months after his death and burial?”
So nice we had to say it thrice!
Was this not the period when the offshore sector understanding with Canada expired? Help me here Mr. Archiver!
@ Greene
Unlike you, I did not go to school at all. Silly me.
@Greene February 20, 2020 10:24 AM “another thing we are taxed for health care and more people pay privately than attend clinics. and clinics are abused simply because they are “free”.
You really believe that Bajans, bathe, dress, take the bus to a public clinic, wait an hour or two or more just for the fun of the exercise?
Yes I understand that some patients, MOSTLY MALE are not compliant with their prescribed regimen, but let me tell you without public clinics we would have a lot more dead children, a lot more dead new mothers, and a lot more young and middle aged people with serious complications of diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, prostate disease etc.
I’ve gone to the clinics with my parents, my aunt, my children etc. and i can tell you that I’ve NEVER seen anybody liming at a clinic. People go to public clinics because they are sick and because they want to get better.
Unlike you, I did not go to school.
@Silly Woman
this is what i said re clinics-
quote} another thing we are taxed for health care and more people pay privately than attend clinics. and clinics are abused simply because they are “free”. {quote
now how does that even touch or relate to what you wrote? i am not following you at all
@Greene February 20, 2020 12:24 PM “i was not educated in Bim beyond secondary school.”
True.
And my father born in 1911, a very bright man who had his formal education aborted at age 11 was doing ongoing mason work in a sugar factory furnace room [hot as hell] for low wages, so that the little taxes paid by him, and the big taxes paid by the sugar industry because they paid such low wages was funding your secondary education, and Hal’s and most of the people’s writing political/economic nonsense on this blog.
If your secondary education had not been paid for by the LABOUR and TAXES of the generation of Bajans before you, would you have even to eligible to migrate, to enter a university?
We ALL have to remember that we stand on the shoulders of others. Often on the shoulders of people poorer, and less educated than we are.
agreed generally speaking but i did not migrate because of my secondary education.
my post here relates to uni education. point out where i said anything about secondary education except to endorse it. you seem not to understand what i said.
to reiterate – uni degree should be “free” for all persons who read for certain degrees that are pivotal to move Bim forward. Degrees that are surplus to requirements should be paid for by the students partially whilst govt cover the economic costs. Technical subjects at the polytechnic and BCC should be pushed.
dont know where you are going with the other stuff you posted but i suspect i will soon find out
@Hal
a lot of assumptions are made here but it is all good
And my father whose education was aborted at age eleven has 2 grandchildren who are engineers [havta mention de engineers first ‘causin’ I know how wunna too worship STEM] 1 who is a physician [in one of the most difficult specialties] one who is a registered nurse, one who is a school principal with a doctoral degree. One CHOSE not to go to uni, but is a very, very smart high earner, one could not go (special need. I won’t mention what the others do, but suffice it to say, nobody is in prison, unemployed or on welfare.
And I think of my father who if he had had the opportunity to have a decent education could also have been an engineer, a physician, a pricipal, except that he was denied the edcation which he DESERVED.
We must never again withdraw education at any level from anybody’s daughter or son who can benefit.
And if it means that we can only own one pair of underwear, then so be it.
Whether education shoot be free as we refer to it is a philosophy position. There is no right or wrong. It is how we as a people want to order our society.
Even though you may not have migrated “because” of your secondary education, I have no doubt that having a good secondary education facilitated your adaptation in your new country, and facilitated your entry into a foreign university and facilitated your subsequent social and economic progress.
EDUCATION MATTERS, FOR ALL.
Other people’s daughters and sons are also important.
correct that and the school environment are what made me what i am today. the rest beyond that were surplus to requirements and window dressing.
but again you are addressing issues that are not subjects of contention. you seem to be conflating arguments here which i am not contending. i sense it is a sensitive topic for you but try to see what i am saying
@Green February 20, 2020 1:04 PM ” Degrees that are surplus to requirements should be paid for by the students partially whilst govt cover the economic costs. Technical subjects at the polytechnic and BCC should be pushed.”
What exactly are surplus to requirements?
And who makes that determination?
And exactly how accurate are these forecasts?
Would for example psychology or social work be surplus to requirements?
Elementary education?
Help me here.
@ Greene
This is Barbados. Take it as it comes. Fortunately, you do not have to deal with them in person throughout the working day. Bajans complain about paying any form of taxes, then they will go to New York, Toronto or London and pay income tax of up to 45 per cent, city tax, state or country taxes and more.
If education was free they will still complain. That is the Bajan Condition. You cannot have a rational discussion about if a small state can afford higher education for anyone who wants to go to university.
I notice that @silly woman is still insisting that I had some form of education. I am illiterate.
the govt along with social partners should do that- broad based input.
another thing elections should be on a saturday and all persons who are eligible should be required to vote or be fined if they have no legal excuse
@Hal Austin February 20, 2020 11:05 AM “I suggest shifting funding away from silly degrees such as cultural studies, journalism, sociology, law and history, to a more technical education.”
Thankfully you don’t get to be the decider.
@Hal Austin February 20, 2020 1:37 PM “I notice that @silly woman is still insisting that I had some form of education. I am illiterate.”
No you are not.
To say so is to be in denial that the men and women of my parents generation [those born before 1920] paid for your excellent primary and secondary education, no doubt facilitated your adaptation to your new country, and facilitated your entry into a foreign college or university and facilitated your subsequent social and economic progress.
Other people’s daughters and sons are equally as important, as little Hal was, when the labour and taxes of the people of my parents’ generation was paying for the elementary and secondary education of the children of your generation.
EDUCATION MATTERS. FOR ALL.
Wuh Loss ! Is Greene a reincarnation of someone we used to know?
No one is above the law, only arrogant fools think that they are, wuh even Donville would tell you that…
https://www.facebook.com/ABCNewsLive/videos/2427203477543772/?t=0
@Simple Simon
Argue your points and stop being suckered into personalizations.
“We ALL have to remember that we stand on the shoulders of others. Often on the shoulders of people poorer, and less educated than we are.”
that is what the uppity, arrogant title holders fail to understand, they all had to stand on the backs of the poor to become uppity and arrogant.
@David February 20, 2020 3:19 PM @Simple Simon. “Argue your points and stop being suckered into personalizations.”
Thanks David. But sometimes we have to get real-real personal with some of the big headed, hard headed people on this blog, and so I repeat for Hal Austin and for all who think like him:
@Hal Austin February 20, 2020 1:37 PM “I notice that @silly woman is still insisting that I had some form of education. I am illiterate.”
@Silly Woman “No you are not.
To say so is to be in denial that the men and women of my parents generation [those born before 1920] paid for your excellent primary and secondary education, which no doubt facilitated your adaptation to your new country, and facilitated your entry into a foreign college or university and facilitated your subsequent social and economic progress. We ALL NEED to remember that we stand on the shoulders of others. Often on the shoulders of people poorer, and less educated than we are. Without these people, we would be nothing, and nobody.
Nobody can come up in my face and belittle the labour of the people of my parent’s generation, not while I still breathe David. Not while I still breathe.
We are proud Bajans. If other Bajans do not wear the Bajan pride well tel them to you know what. It starts with an F.
#Lol
@ David BU at 3:55 PM
BUT will you publish it.? LoL!!!
David I used to be a Sunday School teacher, in 2 different countries too, so you know that I don’t know any “F” words, unless you mean food, family, friendship, fun, foresight, freedom, fair etc.
Lolll!!!
Listen up nasty, oppressive Barbados governments…children should be homeschooled if the parents request it, you are nonprogressive and backward.
“Recently, a newspaper published an article that spoke of a mother whose application to the Ministry Of Education, to homeschool her children, has been denied several times.
The report stated that the mother complied with all requirements asked for by that particular ministry. However, it is the responses to that article by members of the Barbadian public, that has inspired the sharing of this article.
It would seem many are still ignorant to the reality of homeschooling and thus offer uninformed opinions. These opinions often speak to the denial of a person’s fundamental human rights. It is very sad to see a people who were once considered a fraction of a human being, and not fit to be granted the rights of a human being, willing to take those rights from another. Most of the comments on that newspaper post that spoke to the denial of human rights, were made by Barbadian African descended people.”
Silly Woman,
you are creating an argument where none exist. where has it been argued or anything suggested contrary to- we stand on the backs of etc…?
i am not understanding how any of that became a bone of contention at all. please enlighten me.
VC,
and who may i be a reincarnation of?
@ Greene
It is the Bajan Condition. I said I was illiterate, she tells me I am not. That I had a good primary and secondary education in Barbados which allowed me to go to college and university in the UK. Then the faux moral lesson on standing on others shoulders.
You just cannot believe it. She will next tell me where I studied, what I studied and how well I did.
Here is another Denis Kellman, I I I.
#steuspe
For anyone to suggest that education is not free because we pay taxes , I ask a simple question as follows:
We pay taxes that buy buses. Why should we pay bus fare?
Our taxes pay for postal services; Why should we pay for stamps or packages at the post office?
Tax collection was never used to allow “freeness”. It is simply an instrument used to maintain the country and to pay the country’s debts.
Soon somebody will ask:
I pay taxes that build the roads,so why should I pay road tax?
The simple truth is that we have free education and free health services.
Just saying.
and even when bajans were asked to pay they were not paying the full fee. govt paid the economic cost.
wished we could have argued it more thoroughly without getting into useless semantics
Artax you ssked Greene , Donks and the other Dems on here some pointed questions Mr Stuart should have answered in his so called brillant speech which as expected he did not touch. Up comes the so called neutral Skinner to deflect your critism of Mr Stuart to talk about Ms Mottley in the interest of balance.I thought the blog was onr Stuart how did Ms Mottley get in?I have stated on here before that anytime you are critical of the Dems Skinner numps in to defend them which tells me he is a Dem despite his denials.As for Austin we can ignore him since anyone agreeing with the Dem jackass would have to be one himself. By the way where is Mariposa now the Dems are in the spotlight getting real licks.
.
@Hal Austin February 20, 2020 5:15 PM “That I had a good primary and secondary education in Barbados which allowed me to go to college and university in the UK.
Response: I said facilitated. I did not say allowed.
@Hal Austin February 20, 2020 5:15 PM “Then the faux moral lesson on standing on others shoulders.”
Response: And what is false about the moral lesson, O Holy Father?
@Hal Austin February 20, 2020 5:15 PM “She will next tell me where I studied, what I studied and how well I did.”
Response: Don’t know. Don’t want to know. Don’t care
It is after 10. You really should run off to bed now, like a good likkle boy.
@Greene February 20, 2020 1:38 PM “another thing elections should be on a saturday and all persons who are eligible should be required to vote or be fined if they have no legal excuse.”
You said one or two sensible things today. But this one is silly.
Why Saturday? Some people regard Saturday as a Holy Day in which no manner of work including voting should be done. Saturday is also a big shopping day for people who shop at supermarkets and fruit and vegetable markets. Why disrupt the day in which most commercial activity takes place?
And punishing people for not voting? We black people too like thinking up evil punishments for others. I feel that I should be free to vote or not vote, and I don’t want any politician [he or she who gets PAID for participating in the political process] punishing me for not participating, because I don’t get paid to participate in the political process.
That is like the pastor punishing me for not coming to church [the pastor gets PAID to be there] I don’t get paid, so why should the person getting money out of a process punish those of us who get zero money out of the process?
Explain that to me please.
The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.