Former Prime Minister Freundel Stuart Breaks Silence

Former Prime Minister Freundel Stuart in a rare public appearance since the last general election delivered a speech last Sunday at the DLP St. Philip North branch meeting. Thanks to Piece the Legend for the following audio snippet. So far the blogmaster has not been able to locate the full speech by Stuart (some people will say disappointing).

Additional link posted by Ping Ping.

 

311 comments

  • @ Hal Austin February 19, 2020 2:29 PM

    For me it is a fact that former DLP ministers and most of high DLP bureaucrats in the present admin hate black people deeply.

    Give me one reason why they emigrated in droves to Canada, New York and Florida before and after the lost election. Because they admire white people and hate their own kind.

    Whoever looks around Barbados personally knows that the locals are very friendly and that the island is a big paradise. So why did the former ministers emigrate? When you tell the whites in London, Zurich or Moscow that you reside in Barbados, everyone admires you. Only the former DLP ministers and their supporters apparently have a different opinion.

    Like

  • Silly WomanFebruary 19, 2020 1:32 PM

    Was Verla DePieza at this weekend’s meeting at which Stuart spoke? if not, why not?

    Verla was reportedly in New York attending a Friends of the DLP function.

    Like

  • Why are we even listening to this man? He should have kept as silent as he did when he was prime minister. Does he think he can rewrite history?

    Steupse!

    Liked by 1 person

  • @JohnA
    any port in a storm? The mysteries of public financial record keeping…. , I guess a projection, of a revised estimate, from a forecast based on a budget, is all gobbledegook anyways. Totals, or projected totals, without the detailed line items….it’s like pelting darts in the dark.

    Liked by 1 person

  • That’s why Verla was elected president. She can attend functions overseas.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Donks, Gripe and Josh

    []Donna
    February 19, 2020 9:57 PM

    Why are we even listening to this man? He should have kept as silent as he did when he was prime minister. Does he think he can rewrite history?[]

    Seen many comments like this. Its deja vu all over again.

    First off who is we? Speak for yourself.

    Media reports indicate after a two year hiatus former PM Stuart was well received by a large enthusiastic audience who cheered and applauded his speech.

    Obviously he had a critical mass of listeners.

    As neutrals with no skin in the duopoly game, as Skinner talks about ad nauseum ,our position is he has the right to speak like every citizen. It is up to individuals to listen or don’t listen.

    History has a way of rearranging context .

    Previous to Stuart one Erskine Sandiford was the most vilified PM.

    He was hated universally not only for his austerity program he was despised for his appearance.

    A bunch of local whites were overheard in Oistin’s car park cursing Sandy in the worst manner back then.

    The marches against Sandy by Duke of York and company make the protests by Mia, yachtsman Herbert and the unions against Stuart look like child’s play.

    The white plantocracy and elites with persons sounding much like Tron and John spouted venom against Sandy and the Dems to make Hendrik Verwoerd and Jim Crow proud.

    It is astounding to hear political scientists and historians in recent times speak of the great statesman and astute visionary Sandiford was.

    He is practically deified for saving the dollar.

    Don’t rule out the possibility of Stuart’s rehabilitation over time.

    Like

  • He spoke to the base. What is your point? The BLP and other parties if they get traction will want the DLP to return with the tired argument Stuart presented.

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  • @ Donks Gripe and Josh History has a way of rearranging context .

    “Previous to Stuart one Erskine Sandiford was the most vilified PM.

    He was hated universally not only for his austerity program he was despised for his appearance.

    A bunch of local whites were overheard in Oistin’s car park cursing Sandy in the worst manner back then.

    The marches against Sandy by Duke of York and company make the protests by Mia, yachtsman Herbert and the unions against Stuart look like child’s play.

    The white plantocracy and elites with persons sounding much like Tron and John spouted venom against Sandy and the Dems to make Hendrik Verwoerd and Jim Crow proud.

    It is astounding to hear political scientists and historians in recent times speak of the great statesman and astute visionary Sandiford was.

    He is practically deified for saving the dollar.“

    A very interesting and correct analysis.

    Liked by 1 person

  • It does not matter. A big part of being a politician is the appearance of being electable. It is up to the candidate and political parties to project themselves as being electable. Not the other way around.

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  • [video src="https://barbadosunderground.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/stuart_market-vendor.mp4" /]

    Like

  • Baje

    Who do you think they should go with next election?
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    ARE YOU TELLING ME THE ONLY BRAINS IN BARBADOS WORTH ELECTING TO POLITICAL OFFICE ARE WEARING EITHER BLP OR DLP LABELS?

    IF IT IS IT SAYS THAT THE EDUCATION SYSTEM IN BARBADOS AS A WHOLE HAS FAILED AND TOTALLY STRENGTHENS HAL’S ARGUMENT THAT BARBADOS IS A FAILED STATE/ISLAND.

    Like

  • “When you tell the whites in London, Zurich or Moscow that you reside in Barbados, everyone admires you.”

    see this ignorant ass…they don’t admire you stupid, they admire that yall are so damn dumb to keep racism, aparthied and disenfranchisment against your own people going 150 years post slavery…… realizing that you learned nothing after the 400 year slavery experience, they admire that the people are still too brainwashed to do anything about it….but with the fraudulent PM talking about “fighting imperialism”…the first thing she should do after that hypocrite speech is dismantle the whole evil shite of propping up the savages in UK by keeping her own people under the oppression and suppression of the nasty colonial practices so that lowlife nuisance negro politicians, ministers and lawyers can collect bribes and continue to help the common class minorities in Barbados to rob the people…as has been happening for 80 years…so no, they do not admire Bajans, they admire what dumb, backward asses you are..

    I told you already that thinking does not suit you, you lack basic intelligence.

    Like

  • William SkinnerFebruary 20, 2020 12:45 AM

    @ Donks Gripe and Josh History has a way of rearranging context .

    “Previous to Stuart one Erskine Sandiford was the most vilified PM.

    He was hated universally not only for his austerity program he was despised for his appearance.

    A bunch of local whites were overheard in Oistin’s car park cursing Sandy in the worst manner back then.

    The marches against Sandy by Duke of York and company make the protests by Mia, yachtsman Herbert and the unions against Stuart look like child’s play.

    The white plantocracy and elites with persons sounding much like Tron and John spouted venom against Sandy and the Dems to make Hendrik Verwoerd and Jim Crow proud.

    It is astounding to hear political scientists and historians in recent times speak of the great statesman and astute visionary Sandiford was.

    He is practically deified for saving the dollar.“

    A very interesting and correct analysis.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Voted DLP even after I lost 8% of my salary and then did not get my teaching contract renewed.

    But I have never deified him or heard ANYONE deify him. Hardly hear him mentioned really.

    Furthermore, what happened under Sandi is in no way comparable to what happened under Stuart. If you are waiting for him to be deified just remember that people like me voted BLP for the first time ever after more than thirty-five years of voting. And this time I personally did not lose a thing!

    Steupse!

    Liked by 1 person

  • https://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/243982/straughn-fee
    Government yesterday moved to validate the two per cent fee Barbadians have been paying on credit card and other foreign exchange transactions imposed by the Democratic Labour Party administration three years ago. The Foreign Exchange Control (Amendment) Bill 2020, which was passed in the House of Assembly, provides for the imposition of the two per cent fee on foreign exchange transactions and validates its collection, backdating this section to July 17, 2017, when former Minister of Finance Chris Sinckler announced the fee’s introduction in his Budgetary Proposals.THOUGH HE INDICATED GOVERNMENT WAS RETICENT ABOUT GOING HEAD WITH THE FEE, TO WHICH IT HAD SHOWN SOME OBJECTION AT THE TIME IT WAS INITIALLY IMPOSED. Straughn said the current economic state of Barbados necessitated the continuation.”

    We have heard of wuk fa wuk, here comes juk fah juk. Government is only now “validating” the fee, but in fact the fee has been composed continuously since September 2017. It has cost those of us who are trying to educate the next generation thousands more since September 2017. We feel as though we are being punished for assisting the young people with their education. What sort of government does that?

    DLP government.

    BLP government.

    As Skinner likes to say Duopoly rules.

    Liked by 1 person

  • The climate is ripe to nurture the birth of a third party movement yet after a decade nothing. There was hope for the NDP but that too was a one man party.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Tron February 19, 2020 9:08 PM “Give me one reason why they emigrated in droves to Canada, New York and Florida before and after the lost election.”

    Because they honestly but erroneously believe in the myth of the “Great White North.” I expect that a fair number of your current BLP favourites hold the some beliefs. After all the great white north is a wonderful place when you are collecting a nice fat pension and benefits funded by the people in the impoverished south. Isn’t that the way it has worked since 1492? Grab whatever you can from the labour of the people in the south, stash it in the north, and haul ya body there as soon as you can.

    You think poor black people foolish or blind?

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Donks, Gripe and Josh February 20, 2020 12:07 AM “Media reports indicate after a two year hiatus former PM Stuart was well received by a large enthusiastic audience who cheered and applauded his speech. Obviously he had a critical mass of listeners.”

    This is not surprising since 33,985 people voted for the DLP in during the May 2018, elections.

    What is surprising is that the DLP has not built on the enthusiasm of these 33, 985 core supporters. That the party leadership seemed to have ignored their loyalists. In human relationships is is not god practice to ignore people who are loyal to you, instead the bst strategy is to nurture these loyal people.

    But I int no politcal scientist. But I learned a fair bit about HUMAN BEHAVIOUR in my lemonade courses.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Bajan in NY February 19, 2020 9:20 PM “Verla was reportedly in New York attending a Friends of the DLP function.”

    I am wondering if it was a strategic absence.

    https://barbadostoday.bb/2020/02/20/de-peiza-stuarts-news-not-the-dlps/
    De Peiza: Stuart’s news not the DLP’s

    Former Prime Minister Freundel Stuart should feel free to defend his seven-year tenure in the country’s highest office. But not all of his most recent comments reflect the current position or direction of the Democratic Labour Party, President Verla DePeiza has suggested…DePeiza was out of the island during Sunday’s meeting of the party’s St Philip North branch. But reacting to Stuart’s address days later, she stressed the need for its leaders to acknowledge that the people which they swore to serve, were unhappy with their leadership. “We must acknowledge that the people were not pleased with us. We were in government and therefore we have to take responsibility. I have been pretty clear on that. It is up to us to impress the electorate that we are doing the right thing. That is our duty,” the DLP President told Barbados TODAY.

    I int no political scientists, but Verla needs to do to Stuart, what Mia did to Owen…made him disappear (metaphorically of course, lolll!!!) and assert her leadership over the DLP.

    This two headed hydra thingy can’t go on.

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  • Glad to see Verla pushing back. She can’t afford to be soft.

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  • She can push back all she wants but her public image is what it is.

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  • Verla’s real target is not Stuart, who has a right to put his case to the nation, but the growing ineptitude of the Mottley government. We must not allow grand vacuous speeches to blind us from the fact there is a void where policy ought to be. After two years there are clear signs of failure.

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  • @ Simple Simon

    You cannot judge Stuart performance based on Donks Gripe and Greene, because they are DLP supporters. Stuart talking shiite about not “waking a sleeping giant” and “people in a dark room looking for a black cat,” would be described as “articulate and believable.”

    You must also be aware the crowd may have not been predominately DLP supporters but would have included BLP supporters and neutral people that were curious to hear what Stuart had to say after being silent from October 23, 2010 to February 16, 2020 (approx. 9 years, 3 weeks).

    Obviously, the meeting would have mixed reviews. The diehard DEMS would be quick to say Stuart did a fantastic job and he was “articulate and believable;” the BEES would say he was more ‘froth than beer;’ while the neutrals’ criticisms would be more rational and reasonable.

    Additionally, the DEMS would obviously describe “his take down of Mottley using the oft repeated phrase to describe his reticence was nothing short of brilliant.”

    That’s what it’s all about…… attack the opponent for laughs. And, you would notice, these are the issues the DEMS presented to BU to prove the meeting was a success.

    Yes, Stuart is “magnificent speaker with a great command of the language and knows how to work the crowd.”

    But, did he defend, for example, why there was a bureaucratic inertia of government during Thompson’s sickness until a few months after his death and burial?

    Did he defend the 23 consecutive credit rating downgrades?

    Did he defend telling Barbadians “not one civil servant will go home,” and subsequently surprised them with a retrenchment program that saw over 5,000 of them going home?

    Did he explained the circumstances surrounding the failure of his economic policies, such as the:
    ….. Medium-term Development Strategy 2010-2014;
    ….. Medium-term Fiscal Strategy, 2010-2014;
    ….. Medium-term Growth & Development Strategy 2013-2020;
    ….. National Programme fr Sustainable Development.
    ….. the IMF “homegrown” structural adjustment programme 2013.

    Did Stuart discuss the ‘mutiny’ of the “EAGER 11?” Those 11 dissatisfied MPs who, at that time, were seeking an “urgent audience” with him to discuss matters of “grave concern” pertaining to his LEADERSHIP and “to chart a path forward for the retention of our party in Government?”

    This was one of the defining moments of his leadership he should have defended.

    Stuart should have been “articulate and believable” on these issues, then “I could listen to him all day.”

    “talk yuh talk Froons. I hope this is not the last we hear of you.”

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  • Smart move Verla.

    but let Stuart do his thing and forget the negrocrats who like to eat each other or parrot what others say.

    Concentrate on presenting your vision for the future and get a new slate of potential candidate. besides you and few others make sure these candidates are not from the baby boomer generation- that generation has done enuff damage.

    above talk about law and order even as you address the economy and empower your candidates to speak about their portfolio. dont be a mic hog like MAM. and be as honest as possible with bajans.

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  • @Artax

    What about removing so-called free tertiary education?

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  • another thing Verla. Now that Stuart has spoken it is a good time to apologise to bajans for the hardship caused during his rulership.

    how you do this is to say that –

    despite the admirable defensive of his leadership by ex PM Stuart during a very tuff period in Bim’s history we the DLP would like to apologise for any hardship caused during this period. we understand why Bajans went in another political direction and we will try our best to learn lessons from this. we view role of ex PM Stuart and others in articulating what happen during this period as a type of truth and reconciliation moment from which we will move forward and present my vision for the future of the DLP a party that has done a great deal of good for bajans.

    we are proud of our history but the future beckons and onto the future we march knowing that the road would not be smooth, our path will not be straight but together we will fight for a brighter future for Barbadians.

    the mantra should be- the future beckons.

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  • @Greene

    Unfortunately it will not work as you described. Every time Stuart awakes from his slumber and is allowed to speak under the DLP BANNER it will harm whatever she is trying to do.

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  • @Greene

    To add assanine interventions by the Lowes, Jones, Jepters et al.

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  • the truth is that uni education should be means tested. those who could pay should pay the economic portion of it like the DLP imposed. there is absolutely no need for everyone to have a uni educated. we ought to concentrate more on the technical. i am of the opinion uni educated is highly overrated. this issue of free uni will not go away and at some will have to be revisited

    a review of uni fees was commissioned by Arthur and headed by Dr Shorey- i stand to be coreected. the recommendations would surprise many or may be not. when MAM was minister of education she shelved the recommendations.

    when i tell my friends the amount i have paid in uni fees for my kids they look at me like i am stupid and brag about the little they pay

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  • @ Artax
    In the interest of balanced commentary:
    “ adjustment programme 2013.

    Did Stuart discuss the ‘mutiny’ of the “EAGER 11?” Those 11 dissatisfied MPs who, at that time, were seeking an “urgent audience” with him to discuss matters of “grave concern” pertaining to his LEADERSHIP and “to chart a path forward for the retention of our party in Government?”

    Point taken. Did Mottley ever address why she was kicked to the curb by some who now dwell in her cabinet? Was the Arthur inspired mutiny ever really fully ventilated? Has Arthur ever explained why Mottley was” unfit to be PM and was a “despot “. Did Arthur not say that the BLP had lost its soul”.
    At the end of the day it’s always the pot calling the kettle black.
    The Duopoly Rules

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  • Stuart and whom ever should be allowed to speak. they satisfy a segment of the DLP party but the future beckons. i have no issue with that. let the negrocrats hate. all voices must be heard.

    it is what Verla says and the candidates she attracts. politics is the management of many moving parts.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ Mr Greene

    De ole man IS NOT A DLP SUPPORTER FOR ANY ONE OF THE SCUM WHO SERVED DURING THE LAST 10 YEARS (and my support of this Mugabe lot is also known)

    But there is a thing that you said the HIGHLIGHTS the mechanics of good politics AND WHAT IS SEVERELY LACKING HERE IN BARBADOS

    “…another thing Verla.

    Now that Stuart has spoken it is a good time to apologise to bajans for the hardship caused during his rulership…”

    Sir, that is a boss move!

    A few months back de ole man was conversing here with “Ironside”!

    De ole man was discoursing “abstract” concepts AND THIS STATEMENT OF YOURS, is such an intangible and abstract!

    You see, Mr Greene, in that statement you moved the discussion from the customary mundane rumshop banter to TRUE POLITICAL STRATEGY!

    And, de ole man puts it to you that such strategy, IS BEYOND THE KEN & CAPACITY of Verla Depeiza and the majority of people here on BU.

    “What does a political party, have to consistently do, in order to win?”

    And Verla Depeiza is not a brainiac and neither is her support mechanism read political strategy.

    Her audience, AS IS THE AUDIENCE OF ANY THIRD PARTY, is the people!

    When de ole man had instructed Reverend Joseph Atherley to

    Officially appoint Senator Caswell Franklyn as his successor

    AND

    RUN IN THE CONSTITUENCY OF ST MICHAEL NORTH EAST against Mugabe Mottley in his Swan Song Exit, the key thing was THE PEOPLE!

    Unfortunately your instruction to the DIM witted VERLA DEPEIZA and mine to the BLP LEADER OF THE PDP will be lost in the wind like a poop!

    Similar to how the flatulence called Granville Phillips aka Bedroom Police has disappeared from Barbados Underground

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  • Greene who is preventing Stuart et al from speaking? What some of us are suggesting is that it will not help Verla and the DLP to invigorate the brand.

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  • @ Greene

    You are right. The nonsense of ‘free’ education is rooted in the Barrow myth. A university education, paid for by a lot of people who cannot even write their names, is perverse.
    A university education immediately puts the graduate in to a higher earning category. That is another example of the transfer of wealth from the poor to the well to do.
    Make them pay. How that is executed is another matter. Has anyone ever done a study of national scholarships?

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  • @Hal,

    the national scholarship or rather the recognition of students doing well i would leave in place. there should be some type of reward and recognition for doing well.

    i note tho that almost everyone of these scholarship winners are from well to do families who could pay for their education. this is not what the scholarship was intended for.

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  • @Greene

    I agree that the national scholarship should reflect merit, but we still want to know the true value of a scheme that has been going since the 1920s. That is not too much to ask.

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  • @Artax February 20, 2020 7:39 AM “Simple Simon. You cannot judge Stuart performance based on Donks Gripe and Greene, because they are DLP supporters.”

    Thanks for the instruction Artax, but I did not need it you know. My thoughts are entirely my own, and not at al influenced by Donks etc. nor by Greene, Of course many of the BU intelligentsia believe that i am incapable of thought.

    Lol!

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ Greene

    You got the point. Merit and openness are important. Not just the sons and daughters of the big ups who went to Harrison college. For the secondary schools, I will bring back the scholarships.

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  • @David February 20, 2020 7:23 AM “She can push back all she wants but her public image is what it is.”

    Public images can be created, recreated, manipulated,sullied, burnished etc. etc. Who says that a public image has to remain static?

    I am very certain that you know these things, don’t you David.

    Liked by 1 person

  • February 20, 2020 1:26 AM

    Baje
    Who do you think they should go with next election?
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    ARE YOU TELLING ME THE ONLY BRAINS IN BARBADOS WORTH ELECTING TO POLITICAL OFFICE ARE WEARING EITHER BLP OR DLP LABELS?
    IF IT IS IT SAYS THAT THE EDUCATION SYSTEM IN BARBADOS AS A WHOLE HAS FAILED AND TOTALLY STRENGTHENS HAL’S ARGUMENT THAT BARBADOS IS A FAILED STATE/ISLAND.
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    BAJE I aint tell you no such thing. I aint tell you anything at all. I ask you a simple question

    Who do you think they should go with next election?

    You can only elect who put themselves before the electorate for elections.
    All bajans with “brains” does not necessarily want to or seek to be in elective politics.
    Also all bajans with “brains” did not necessarily get educated in Barbados

    There is no need for the unnecessary comments, they were not asked for, and the question still not answered.

    Liked by 1 person

  • de pedantic Dribbler

    @Artax, freaking Brilliant above…. I tried y’day to get to the mountain top but failed miserably… You bro planted that flag with VIGOUR!

    You outdo Stuart with awesome ‘oratory’ …I am confident the crowd went wild when you suggested … [NOW he wants to talk after being] … silent from October 23, 2010 to February 16, 2020 (approx. 9 years, 3 weeks).”

    The rest after that was like a Don Blackman masterclass: a deliberate build up raising to a
    super crescendo!

    @William I am surprised by ur contrasting Sandiford to Stuart on a policy governance level (the personal looks stuff is BS and should not be part of any serious debate as you know so let’s dismiss that).

    @Donna is absolutely spot on.

    It’s fair to say that the Stuart admin took a rough economic patch of land – so to say- and made it into a toxic swamp land of difficult to nurture plants. Sandiford undertook a very unpopular form of re-work and fertilization of a similar patch with very painful and difficult tilling to prep for a re-plant/new growth.

    One made a harsh choice that was basically affirmed in hind sight the other just kept on badly ‘soiling’ the economy that will NOT be lauded on history’s pages.

    Why compare those two as equitable !

    And yes @David, I do not see the upside politically to this reawakening.

    When Barrow reclaimed the govt in ’87 (was it?) even he was faced with much doubt of being dated in philosophy and process….and here was a man (love or hate) who had achieved some successes; when Arthur attempted to reinsert himself he definitely faced the same dated attack and he had done possibly the best of all PMs before him!

    So how the badword is this man parading as some sage older statesman politician…

    Let the party cleanse itself surely but it should be sent to political perfidy for ‘ever and a day’ if the members allow him the room to be any future public figure for the DLP.

    Absolute political nonsense… and POLITICALLY insanse!

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  • Greene

    The writing is on the wall for de pizza that why all the Duppies now finding their voices.

    He best move now would be to get “her” candidates in place ASAP.

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  • @ de pedantic Dribbler
    I don’t know where you get this contrast with Stuart and Sandiford, I did from. I merely stated that @ Donks gripe Josh had done a correct and intelligent analysis. I just try to be objective. I have no agenda.

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  • Vincent Codrington

    @ Greene
    @ Hal Austin

    Why does a society educate its citizens?
    Why does a society reward those citizens who excel?
    Is the current system achieving these objectives or not?

    @ Piece
    @ David Bu
    Are their only purpose to win election to office?
    Or to devise a programme to achieve useful social and economic objectives?
    What past political leaders do or not do are totally irrelevant. What the present ones do is worthy of discussion. All other approaches are like spinning top in mud.

    Just stirring this pot a bit.

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    The gremlin is at work every time I address David BU. The question is: What is the purpose of Political Parties ?

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  • @Hal Austin February 20, 2020 8:36 AM. “The nonsense of ‘free’ education is rooted in the Barrow myth…Make them pay.”

    Both Hal and Green are intelligent enough to know that there is not and has never been any such thing as a free tertiary education in Barbados Tertiary education in Barbados has been PAID for principally by the taxpayers of Barbados. The same taxpayers whose daughters and sons have attended and attend the university of the West Indie, but also Erdiston College, the Barbados Community College, the Samuel Jackman Institute of Technology etc. and those tax paying parents whose daughters and sons received Barbados scholarships and Exhibitions and who receive some help from Barbados taxpayers with their education. So once the Barbados government (BLP, DLP) has made the parents pay, and pay, and ppay through their taxes how much more should government, can government extract from the parents to make them pay?

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Simple Simon

    Can you share what happened when the last government decimated the so-called free education model? What happened with enrollment at UWI for example? Have we examined the social impact of the decision? Especially as it relates to high youth unemployment juxtaposed with a middle class that has had to bear the brunt of government austerity policies?

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  • @ Vincent

    I will split your question in two: why does one pursue further and higher education; and what is its value to society? First, an individual should be allowed to pursue education/training to the best of their ability and to their satisfaction. The contribution that makes to society is that the higher the proportion of people educated to a certain level the better the society becomes in a number of ways..
    This improvement may express itself in economic growth; but there are also soft benefits, such as arts, creativity, and an overall improvement in the quality of life, better institutions, public decency, law-abiding, less violence, etc..

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Vincent

    Others more qualified have succinctly suggested it is about winning elections and stoking their popularity.

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  • Vincent Codrington

    @ Simple Simon at 9 :57 AM

    You are 100% correct. The tax payers are paying for the education of its citizens. Do you imagine how much worse it would be if we did not have publicly financed education? Why should parents pay twice?
    Some of us are prepared to send our children to fee paying schools and universities because we are not satisfied with the curricula at the local schools and universities. But it is our choice.

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  • Vincent Codrington

    @ David Bu

    But what do you think? Do you think these”more qualified ” are correct? What make them “more qualified”?

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  • i would ask you all to read the recommendations of the committee commissioned by Arthur to review the uni fee arrangement for bajans at UWI.

    maybe David could post it. i believe Dr Shorey was head of the committee and MAM was the minister of education at the time.

    i must say i am only talking about uni education.

    my opinion is that we should move toward move technical education and only support degrees where they are a benefit to this country and in certain fields. if you want other degrees you should pay the economic cost or whatever they call it.

    degrees generally speaking are highly overrated in my opinion and a good secondary education, experience and professional qualifications are just as good if not better than some nondescript degrees.

    for disclosure purposes i have a graduate degree, several professional qualifications and i rely on my experience more than my degrees

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  • another thing we are taxed for health care and more people pay privately than attend clinics. and clinics are abused simply because they are “free”.

    to ask whether i understand that there is no such thing as free uni is quite misplaced for want of a better word.

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  • Vincent Codrington

    @ David BU at 10 :11 AM

    You may not have noticed ,but I have observed that those who have sought to ” win elections and stroke their popularity” have failed miserably in leaving a legacy. No one can point to anything of significance that they have done.

    Like

  • @Hal Austiin February 20, 2020 9:13 AM “You got the point. Merit and openness are important. Not just the sons and daughters of the big ups who went to Harrison college.”

    Since you are interested in openness, let us try a little openness. I took a look at my tax files for the 10 year period before my youngest child started university. During that 10 year period I paid, $207,368 BDS in income taxes. I did not count the odd cents, which may add up to another $10 or so. I paid property taxes at about $1,000 BDS per year (I have not checked my property tax file for absolutely accuracy) I paid VAT on virtually everything including toilet paper, soap, sanitary napkins and condoms (can’t forget the condoms, as who can afford to raise more than one or two children). I certainly am nor rich, i certainly am not middle class. I took a bus and a ZR van to work every day. The youngest child is almost finished and I am relieved. I gave up cable television. I have not watched TV in nearly 4 years. I gave up even flushing my toilet unless I have done number 2, I grow much of my own food.

    Sometimes people who live far away are completely unaware of how heavily taxed Bajans are, under both BLP and DLP governments. In fact we get nothing free. We pay, heavily for every single reeness.

    I wonder if in a “make them pay” regime I would have had to pay, or if I would have been considered poor enough to benefit from the alleged “freeness.” If I have already paid hundreds of thousands of taxes where do I get the money from to pay some more as I am way too old to prostitute myself?

    The only “ease” for me is that my children were born more than 10 years apart and I had the time to “catch myself” between the first and the second; and my second “ease” is that my family has an very high life expectancy as I have had to mortgage my soul to the banks, but I expect to retrieve it before my 85th birthday, but not much before.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @ Silly Woman February 20, 2020 5:51 AM

    You got it upside-down. I know many readers are irritated that Tron, unlike almost everyone else, does not constantly speak ill of Barbados. But the truth is a precious commodity.

    Have a look at the white tourists at the airport before they return: They all have a bad sunburn because they want to be dark skinned like Africans. Tanned skin is considered a sign of wealth in the north. This is the reality. If they talk bad about blacks, it’s because they are very jealous.

    It’s also a great privilege to spend one’s remaining years in Barbados. Barbados is a dream island. The people are always in a good mood, very polite, not criminal and have manners in traffic. We have the smartest and most dynamic Prime Minister, the best music and the best rum. You can buy everything in Barbados, from drugs to DLP bureaucrats, Miele ovens and Grohe showers to Mercedes SUVs. In comparison, on the surrounding pepper islands you can only get rum and bullets.

    So stop your whining. Paradise has always been very expensive. A wise man once told me you must be able to afford to live in Barbados. How right he was. Personally, I am very proud of Barbados, its culture, the local food and music.

    I only complain about the low productivity, nothing else. But to be honest: Who wants to work in paradise instead of dreaming all day? 😉 🙂

    Like

  • @ Mr. Skinner

    With all due respect, sir, as far as I could remember, the MAIN EVENT at last Sunday’s meeting was all about “Freundel speaking,”…… NOT Mia Mottley.

    Secondly, you and others have made previous comments on BU, admonishing people for defending, for example, an action by the BLP by saying the DLP did something similar…… vice versa. Therefore, for you now to make those comments in your February 20, 2020 8:13 AM contributions, raise some questions.

    Thirdly, if you want to go down that line, “in the interest of balanced commentary,” since Richie Haynes is no longer with us, then it would have been equally FAIR if we HAD ALSO ASKED you or other former NDP members, what were the reasons that led him to leave the DLP and form the NDP?

    Did Haynes have a good relationship with Barrow, Sandiford and other members of the DLP?

    Given his popularity at that time, why did he fail to push the NDP to a level that would have subsequently resonated with the electorate?

    Wasn’t there any individual in the NDP, beyond Haynes, who could have developed the party into a force to be reckoned with and a viable alternative to the “duopoly?”

    If the NDP presented itself as a viable “third party” option, after the party’s demise, why did some former members REJOINED the DLP or JOINED the BLP?

    No offence intended…… but I don’t believe our political questions should be confined ONLY to the “duopoly.”

    Liked by 1 person

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ Simple Simon at 10 :41 AM

    Again, I agree with you. The incidence of taxation in Barbados rivals those of some Scandinavian Countries. Like you, I am amused when “political yard fowls” and intellectually shallow commentators propagate the myth of “freeness”.

    Like

  • @ Vincent

    If you want to enjoy a decent society then you have to pay. Our problem is that we need a hypothecated tax system. Let people know what they are paying for.
    I suggest shifting funding away from silly degrees such as cultural studies, journalism, sociology, law and history, to a more technical education. Follow the Germans.

    Like

  • @ Artax
    I have written at least three articles in BU regarding the NDP. I have no quarrel with what you have written about the NDP/Haynes
    My main contention is that both parties that make up the Duopoly should be held to the same standard. Therefore whenever anybody attempts to highlight any negative within them, I am usually able to expose a similar pattern in the other.
    My position is that they are six and half dozen. In response to your submission, I merely tried to establish that there is internal cannibalism within the Duopoly. It was certainly not an attempt to critique your position. I have long ceased to become immersed in BLP/DLP back and forth. I leave that to the more enlightened on BU.
    BTW I don’t recall the NDP ever forming the government although at one stage it was the Opposition.
    The Duopoly Rules

    Like

  • to pay or not to pay uni fees

    http://www.ipsnews.net/1996/02/barbados-education-to-pay-or-not-to-pay/

    students to pay some fees govt foots economic costs

    https://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/51145/bajans-pay-tuition-fees-uwi-2014

    a criticism of subsidised education

    http://www.ccrtd.org/blog/2013/9/29/subsidized-educationand-then-what-why-the-barbadian-social-contract-no-longer-makes-sense#.WwlmH9Mvy4Q=

    for avoidance of doubt i am saying that govt should pay what they are paying now for degrees that benefit the island whilst pushing more technical qualifications. if students want to read for degrees outside of that they should pay a fee whilst govt pay the economic cost

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ Greene

    You are misunderstanding the purpose and objective of university education. University Education is NOT about technical education. All university education is of direct and indirect benefit to the citizens of Barbados.
    Economic and social well-being is the output/outcome.

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    Correction. I think I should have keyboarded “solely about “

    Like

  • @Tron February 20, 2020 10:44 AM “Have a look at the white tourists at the airport before they return: They all have a bad sunburn because they want to be dark skinned like Africans. Tanned skin is considered a sign of wealth in the north.”

    Because the sun burned tourists honestly but erroneously believe in the myth of the “Easy Going Laid Back South.”
    Sun burns are bad, bad, bad. If you doubt me ask white Australians, or white Bajans. Sunburns are a precusor to high rates of malignant melanoma/skin CANCER in these populations.

    But if the tourists like the sun so much they can always join me for a week of unpaid field labour instead of joining you for your perpetual lime on the beach, you lazy bum.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Vincent Codrington February 20, 2020 10:13 AM “Do you imagine how much worse it would be if we did not have publicly financed education?”

    Barbados would be Haiti.

    Barbados WAS Haiti when my parents first gt together in 1935, and when their second child nearly died of hunger in the care of my poorly educated parents during that time.

    Were it not for publicly funded education Hal would not be a retired Daily Mail editor, and Greene would not have multiple master’s degrees.

    We pay the taxes. Our children and our neighbour’s children,and other people’s children DESERVE a decent education, nursery, primary, secondary, and tertiary.

    I am willing not to watch TV, not to flush my toilet more than once a day to ensure that that happens.

    Because my children are not the only good deserving people in the Barbados.

    Other people’s children are also good, also deserving, also of value to me and to this Bajan society and to the world.

    Of course we deserve good, decent politicians and good decent bureaucrats, and a good decent private sector.

    But to withdraw publicly funded education from the next generation was madness, is madness.

    Liked by 1 person

  • i was not educated in Bim beyond secondary school

    Like

  • VC,

    AGAIN-

    for avoidance of doubt i am saying that govt should pay what they are paying now for degrees that benefit the island whilst pushing more technical qualifications. if students want to read for degrees outside of that they should pay a fee whilst govt pay the economic cost

    Like

  • ArtaxFebruary 20, 2020 7:39 AM

    @ Simple Simon

    You cannot judge Stuart performance based on Donks Gripe and Greene, because they are DLP supporters. Stuart talking shiite about not “waking a sleeping giant” and “people in a dark room looking for a black cat,” would be described as “articulate and believable.”

    You must also be aware the crowd may have not been predominately DLP supporters but would have included BLP supporters and neutral people that were curious to hear what Stuart had to say after being silent from October 23, 2010 to February 16, 2020 (approx. 9 years, 3 weeks).

    Obviously, the meeting would have mixed reviews. The diehard DEMS would be quick to say Stuart did a fantastic job and he was “articulate and believable;” the BEES would say he was more ‘froth than beer;’ while the neutrals’ criticisms would be more rational and reasonable.

    Additionally, the DEMS would obviously describe “his take down of Mottley using the oft repeated phrase to describe his reticence was nothing short of brilliant.”

    That’s what it’s all about…… attack the opponent for laughs. And, you would notice, these are the issues the DEMS presented to BU to prove the meeting was a success.

    Yes, Stuart is “magnificent speaker with a great command of the language and knows how to work the crowd.”

    But, did he defend, for example, why there was a bureaucratic inertia of government during Thompson’s sickness until a few months after his death and burial?

    Did he defend the 23 consecutive credit rating downgrades?

    Did he defend telling Barbadians “not one civil servant will go home,” and subsequently surprised them with a retrenchment program that saw over 5,000 of them going home?

    Did he explained the circumstances surrounding the failure of his economic policies, such as the:
    ….. Medium-term Development Strategy 2010-2014;
    ….. Medium-term Fiscal Strategy, 2010-2014;
    ….. Medium-term Growth & Development Strategy 2013-2020;
    ….. National Programme fr Sustainable Development.
    ….. the IMF “homegrown” structural adjustment programme 2013.

    Did Stuart discuss the ‘mutiny’ of the “EAGER 11?” Those 11 dissatisfied MPs who, at that time, were seeking an “urgent audience” with him to discuss matters of “grave concern” pertaining to his LEADERSHIP and “to chart a path forward for the retention of our party in Government?”

    This was one of the defining moments of his leadership he should have defended.

    Stuart should have been “articulate and believable” on these issues, then “I could listen to him all day.”

    “talk yuh talk Froons. I hope this is not the last we hear of you.”

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    “But, did he defend, for example, why there was a bureaucratic inertia of government during Thompson’s sickness until a few months after his death and burial?”

    So nice we had to say it thrice!

    Was this not the period when the offshore sector understanding with Canada expired? Help me here Mr. Archiver!

    Like

  • @ Greene

    Unlike you, I did not go to school at all. Silly me.

    Like

  • @Greene February 20, 2020 10:24 AM “another thing we are taxed for health care and more people pay privately than attend clinics. and clinics are abused simply because they are “free”.

    You really believe that Bajans, bathe, dress, take the bus to a public clinic, wait an hour or two or more just for the fun of the exercise?

    Yes I understand that some patients, MOSTLY MALE are not compliant with their prescribed regimen, but let me tell you without public clinics we would have a lot more dead children, a lot more dead new mothers, and a lot more young and middle aged people with serious complications of diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, prostate disease etc.

    I’ve gone to the clinics with my parents, my aunt, my children etc. and i can tell you that I’ve NEVER seen anybody liming at a clinic. People go to public clinics because they are sick and because they want to get better.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Unlike you, I did not go to school.

    Like

  • @Silly Woman

    this is what i said re clinics-

    quote} another thing we are taxed for health care and more people pay privately than attend clinics. and clinics are abused simply because they are “free”. {quote

    now how does that even touch or relate to what you wrote? i am not following you at all

    Like

  • @Greene February 20, 2020 12:24 PM “i was not educated in Bim beyond secondary school.”

    True.

    And my father born in 1911, a very bright man who had his formal education aborted at age 11 was doing ongoing mason work in a sugar factory furnace room [hot as hell] for low wages, so that the little taxes paid by him, and the big taxes paid by the sugar industry because they paid such low wages was funding your secondary education, and Hal’s and most of the people’s writing political/economic nonsense on this blog.

    If your secondary education had not been paid for by the LABOUR and TAXES of the generation of Bajans before you, would you have even to eligible to migrate, to enter a university?

    We ALL have to remember that we stand on the shoulders of others. Often on the shoulders of people poorer, and less educated than we are.

    Liked by 1 person

  • agreed generally speaking but i did not migrate because of my secondary education.

    my post here relates to uni education. point out where i said anything about secondary education except to endorse it. you seem not to understand what i said.

    to reiterate – uni degree should be “free” for all persons who read for certain degrees that are pivotal to move Bim forward. Degrees that are surplus to requirements should be paid for by the students partially whilst govt cover the economic costs. Technical subjects at the polytechnic and BCC should be pushed.

    dont know where you are going with the other stuff you posted but i suspect i will soon find out

    Like

  • @Hal

    a lot of assumptions are made here but it is all good

    Like

  • And my father whose education was aborted at age eleven has 2 grandchildren who are engineers [havta mention de engineers first ‘causin’ I know how wunna too worship STEM] 1 who is a physician [in one of the most difficult specialties] one who is a registered nurse, one who is a school principal with a doctoral degree. One CHOSE not to go to uni, but is a very, very smart high earner, one could not go (special need. I won’t mention what the others do, but suffice it to say, nobody is in prison, unemployed or on welfare.

    And I think of my father who if he had had the opportunity to have a decent education could also have been an engineer, a physician, a pricipal, except that he was denied the edcation which he DESERVED.

    We must never again withdraw education at any level from anybody’s daughter or son who can benefit.

    And if it means that we can only own one pair of underwear, then so be it.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Whether education shoot be free as we refer to it is a philosophy position. There is no right or wrong. It is how we as a people want to order our society.

    Like

  • Even though you may not have migrated “because” of your secondary education, I have no doubt that having a good secondary education facilitated your adaptation in your new country, and facilitated your entry into a foreign university and facilitated your subsequent social and economic progress.

    EDUCATION MATTERS, FOR ALL.

    Other people’s daughters and sons are also important.

    Liked by 1 person

  • correct that and the school environment are what made me what i am today. the rest beyond that were surplus to requirements and window dressing.

    but again you are addressing issues that are not subjects of contention. you seem to be conflating arguments here which i am not contending. i sense it is a sensitive topic for you but try to see what i am saying

    Like

  • @Green February 20, 2020 1:04 PM ” Degrees that are surplus to requirements should be paid for by the students partially whilst govt cover the economic costs. Technical subjects at the polytechnic and BCC should be pushed.”

    What exactly are surplus to requirements?

    And who makes that determination?

    And exactly how accurate are these forecasts?

    Would for example psychology or social work be surplus to requirements?

    Elementary education?

    Help me here.

    Liked by 2 people

  • @ Greene

    This is Barbados. Take it as it comes. Fortunately, you do not have to deal with them in person throughout the working day. Bajans complain about paying any form of taxes, then they will go to New York, Toronto or London and pay income tax of up to 45 per cent, city tax, state or country taxes and more.
    If education was free they will still complain. That is the Bajan Condition. You cannot have a rational discussion about if a small state can afford higher education for anyone who wants to go to university.
    I notice that @silly woman is still insisting that I had some form of education. I am illiterate.

    Like

  • the govt along with social partners should do that- broad based input.

    another thing elections should be on a saturday and all persons who are eligible should be required to vote or be fined if they have no legal excuse

    Like

  • @Hal Austin February 20, 2020 11:05 AM “I suggest shifting funding away from silly degrees such as cultural studies, journalism, sociology, law and history, to a more technical education.”

    Thankfully you don’t get to be the decider.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Hal Austin February 20, 2020 1:37 PM “I notice that @silly woman is still insisting that I had some form of education. I am illiterate.”

    No you are not.

    To say so is to be in denial that the men and women of my parents generation [those born before 1920] paid for your excellent primary and secondary education, no doubt facilitated your adaptation to your new country, and facilitated your entry into a foreign college or university and facilitated your subsequent social and economic progress.

    Other people’s daughters and sons are equally as important, as little Hal was, when the labour and taxes of the people of my parents’ generation was paying for the elementary and secondary education of the children of your generation.

    EDUCATION MATTERS. FOR ALL.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Vincent Codrington

    Wuh Loss ! Is Greene a reincarnation of someone we used to know?

    Like

  • No one is above the law, only arrogant fools think that they are, wuh even Donville would tell you that…

    Like

  • @Simple Simon

    Argue your points and stop being suckered into personalizations.

    Like

  • “We ALL have to remember that we stand on the shoulders of others. Often on the shoulders of people poorer, and less educated than we are.”

    that is what the uppity, arrogant title holders fail to understand, they all had to stand on the backs of the poor to become uppity and arrogant.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @David February 20, 2020 3:19 PM @Simple Simon. “Argue your points and stop being suckered into personalizations.”

    Thanks David. But sometimes we have to get real-real personal with some of the big headed, hard headed people on this blog, and so I repeat for Hal Austin and for all who think like him:

    @Hal Austin February 20, 2020 1:37 PM “I notice that @silly woman is still insisting that I had some form of education. I am illiterate.”

    @Silly Woman “No you are not.

    To say so is to be in denial that the men and women of my parents generation [those born before 1920] paid for your excellent primary and secondary education, which no doubt facilitated your adaptation to your new country, and facilitated your entry into a foreign college or university and facilitated your subsequent social and economic progress. We ALL NEED to remember that we stand on the shoulders of others. Often on the shoulders of people poorer, and less educated than we are. Without these people, we would be nothing, and nobody.

    Nobody can come up in my face and belittle the labour of the people of my parent’s generation, not while I still breathe David. Not while I still breathe.

    Liked by 1 person

  • We are proud Bajans. If other Bajans do not wear the Bajan pride well tel them to you know what. It starts with an F.

    #Lol

    Like

  • Vincent Codrington

    @ David BU at 3:55 PM

    BUT will you publish it.? LoL!!!

    Like

  • David I used to be a Sunday School teacher, in 2 different countries too, so you know that I don’t know any “F” words, unless you mean food, family, friendship, fun, foresight, freedom, fair etc.

    Lolll!!!

    Like

  • Listen up nasty, oppressive Barbados governments…children should be homeschooled if the parents request it, you are nonprogressive and backward.

    http://www.afrikanheritage.com/governments-that-ban-or-severely-restrict-the-rights-of-families-to-homeschool-are-not-friends-of-freedom/?fbclid=IwAR3_iJOnosEn0Lk7p7FjRxJj5sIiUGt7Iuabz9_JyBBooK0gIaRyAzAexFk

    “Recently, a newspaper published an article that spoke of a mother whose application to the Ministry Of Education, to homeschool her children, has been denied several times.

    The report stated that the mother complied with all requirements asked for by that particular ministry. However, it is the responses to that article by members of the Barbadian public, that has inspired the sharing of this article.

    It would seem many are still ignorant to the reality of homeschooling and thus offer uninformed opinions. These opinions often speak to the denial of a person’s fundamental human rights. It is very sad to see a people who were once considered a fraction of a human being, and not fit to be granted the rights of a human being, willing to take those rights from another. Most of the comments on that newspaper post that spoke to the denial of human rights, were made by Barbadian African descended people.”

    Like

  • Silly Woman,

    you are creating an argument where none exist. where has it been argued or anything suggested contrary to- we stand on the backs of etc…?

    i am not understanding how any of that became a bone of contention at all. please enlighten me.

    VC,

    and who may i be a reincarnation of?

    Like

  • @ Greene

    It is the Bajan Condition. I said I was illiterate, she tells me I am not. That I had a good primary and secondary education in Barbados which allowed me to go to college and university in the UK. Then the faux moral lesson on standing on others shoulders.
    You just cannot believe it. She will next tell me where I studied, what I studied and how well I did.

    Like

  • Here is another Denis Kellman, I I I.

    #steuspe

    Like

  • For anyone to suggest that education is not free because we pay taxes , I ask a simple question as follows:
    We pay taxes that buy buses. Why should we pay bus fare?
    Our taxes pay for postal services; Why should we pay for stamps or packages at the post office?
    Tax collection was never used to allow “freeness”. It is simply an instrument used to maintain the country and to pay the country’s debts.
    Soon somebody will ask:
    I pay taxes that build the roads,so why should I pay road tax?
    The simple truth is that we have free education and free health services.
    Just saying.

    Like

  • and even when bajans were asked to pay they were not paying the full fee. govt paid the economic cost.

    wished we could have argued it more thoroughly without getting into useless semantics

    Like

  • Artax you ssked Greene , Donks and the other Dems on here some pointed questions Mr Stuart should have answered in his so called brillant speech which as expected he did not touch. Up comes the so called neutral Skinner to deflect your critism of Mr Stuart to talk about Ms Mottley in the interest of balance.I thought the blog was onr Stuart how did Ms Mottley get in?I have stated on here before that anytime you are critical of the Dems Skinner numps in to defend them which tells me he is a Dem despite his denials.As for Austin we can ignore him since anyone agreeing with the Dem jackass would have to be one himself. By the way where is Mariposa now the Dems are in the spotlight getting real licks.

    .

    Like

  • @Hal Austin February 20, 2020 5:15 PM “That I had a good primary and secondary education in Barbados which allowed me to go to college and university in the UK.

    Response: I said facilitated. I did not say allowed.

    @Hal Austin February 20, 2020 5:15 PM “Then the faux moral lesson on standing on others shoulders.”
    Response: And what is false about the moral lesson, O Holy Father?

    @Hal Austin February 20, 2020 5:15 PM “She will next tell me where I studied, what I studied and how well I did.”
    Response: Don’t know. Don’t want to know. Don’t care

    It is after 10. You really should run off to bed now, like a good likkle boy.

    Liked by 1 person

  • @Greene February 20, 2020 1:38 PM “another thing elections should be on a saturday and all persons who are eligible should be required to vote or be fined if they have no legal excuse.”

    You said one or two sensible things today. But this one is silly.

    Why Saturday? Some people regard Saturday as a Holy Day in which no manner of work including voting should be done. Saturday is also a big shopping day for people who shop at supermarkets and fruit and vegetable markets. Why disrupt the day in which most commercial activity takes place?

    And punishing people for not voting? We black people too like thinking up evil punishments for others. I feel that I should be free to vote or not vote, and I don’t want any politician [he or she who gets PAID for participating in the political process] punishing me for not participating, because I don’t get paid to participate in the political process.

    That is like the pastor punishing me for not coming to church [the pastor gets PAID to be there] I don’t get paid, so why should the person getting money out of a process punish those of us who get zero money out of the process?

    Explain that to me please.

    Liked by 1 person

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