Read about Barbadian Abbey Greene who followed her husband to Syria to join ISIS.
Trini, Bajan woman on life with ISIS: We thought it was irie
Newsday Aliya Abdul Haqq in Trinidad before leaving to join ISIS in Syria along with her brother. –
SIMON COTTEE
Aliya Abdul Haqq, one of the hundred or so TT citizens currently stranded in the Al Hol camp in Syria, recently told two foreign journalists that life inside the ISIS caliphate was “irie” – a Jamaican expression for nice or cool. Abdul Haqq, 34, is the sister of Tariq Abdul Haqq, a former lawyer and Commonwealth Games boxing finalist who traded his enviable life in Trinidad for war and death in Syria.
Abdul Haqq was interviewed alongside Abbey Greene, 33, who is from Barbados and was married to Abdul Haqq’s brother Tariq.
If you want to know what an unrepentant female ISIS member sounds like, you could do worse than listen to the Popular Front podcast interview with these two sisters. It makes for spine-tingling listening, not because the women sound like bloodcurdling monsters, but because of the cold and carefree detachment with which they talk about the genocidal violence of the Islamic State.
And if you’re a proud Trini you’ll no doubt be disconcerted to hear that Abdul Haqq doesn’t share your national pride, and is sharply critical of her country of birth.
Abdul Haqq and Greene travelled to Syria in November 2014 with their respective husbands, Osyaba Muhammad and Tariq Abdul Haqq. While 240 TT citizens travelled to Syria between 2013 and 2016, Greene, to my knowledge, is the only Bajan to have gone to join ISIS.
Abbey Greene, the Barbadian widow of Trinidadian Tariq Abdul Haqq, brother of Aliya Abdul Haqq. –
“We came (to Syria) with our husbands, we made hijrah (migrated) to live under the Islamic State, under the law of Islam, and we basically followed our husbands,” says Greene.
Miraculously, both women survived the slaughterhouse of Baghuz, the last sliver of the ISIS caliphate, which fell in March 2019.
Abdul Haqq says before leaving TT she was never radical.
“I was into makeup, piercings and all these crazy things, which I still like.” It wasn’t until after her father died – Yacoob Abdul Haqq was accidentally shot and killed in May 2013 – that she and her family “made this big turnaround.”
Tariq, in Abdul Haqq’s telling, spearheaded this metamorphosis: “My brother came home one day and he said he was going to Syria.
“I started laughing,” she recalls, but within months she had come round to his way of thinking, because in Syria, “it’s strict sharia, which is what I like, so I said, ‘Let me try and see what Syria is about.’”
It is an oddly blasé way of describing what must have been a momentous life decision.
Asked what life was like when she first arrived in Syria, Abdul Haqq relays that she was based in Raqqa, then the de-facto capital of the caliphate.
Aliya Abdul Haqq –
“It matched pretty well (my expectation). There were airstrikes, but it was really mild, so it was still very much like my country (TT). But under sharia, it wasn’t extreme then…It was normal life, we had tea parties, pyjama parties, it was really irie…cool, calm.”
Apparently, she deliberately avoided seeing the public beheadings that were a regular feature in the city back in 2014, but admitted her son had been exposed to several and that it had a violent effect on him.
Do these women have any regret over following their husbands to Syria and for all that ISIS has done?
Not one bit, it seems.
In fact, at several points in the interview, when Abdul Haqq and Greene are questioned about ISIS’s extreme violence against civilians and the rape and sexual enslavement of Yazidis, their default response is either to dodge the question or to rationalise ISIS’s violence as a legitimate response to the violence meted out against ISIS.
They are still clearly bitter about the loss of Baghuz.
“It was a madness, a massacre,” Abdul Haqq says, adding, referring to the SDF (Syrian Democratic Forces), “They bombed the orphanage, they bombed a children’s hospital.”
Greene concurs: “The killing has come from both sides.”
What about the beheading of western hostages?
“I don’t know…The men deal with this,” says Abdul Haqq.
Did the brutality of ISIS cause them to rethink their commitment to the group? This question prompts a long pause.
Then this from Greene: “I really don’t think about that question.”
On the sexual enslavement of Yazidi girls and women, Abdul Haqq confides that she had met two Yazidi women in Raqqa: “They were slaves to a Bosnian guy…and from what (one of them) told me, she said she really loved her slave-master, and she accepted Islam.”
What about ISIS’s systematic killing of Yazidi men – what can justify that?
More silence. Then Greene repeats what has become a mantra for her: “For me, this war is never-ending, and it’s on both sides.”
When probed about slavery, Greene seemed reluctant to condemn it outright, insisting: “Slavery in Islam is not like slavery back in the day — there are certain rules you have to follow, you have to show rahma (mercy), you must feed them, take care of them.”
It is a matter of historical record that ISIS militants did not just enslave Yazidi women and girls, but also violently raped them as part of an official genocidal policy. In TT, a group called the Concerned Muslims of T&T has been calling for the repatriation of all Trini women and children detained in Syria and Iraq, but Abdul Haqq and Greene do not seem particularly desperate to return to the Caribbean. Abdul Haqq is particularly hard on Trinidad: “You know now the crime rate in my country is spiralling, gangsterism and all of this gay and lesbianism craziness, gang-warfare – it’s so crazy.
“I just want peace,” she adds.
“I want a normal life,” says Greene.
Do these women deserve either peace or a normal life after joining a group that had nothing but contempt for the peace and life of so many others? And if they are eventually to return to TT and Barbados, what consequences should they face for joining one of the world’s most violent terrorist groups?
These are difficult questions and there is little appetite on the part of the current TT government to actively assist in the repatriation of ISIS-affiliated Trini women and children.
The testimony of Aliya Abdul Haqq and Abbey Greene is unlikely to convince it to change its non-committal stance on the issue.
Simon Cottee is a senior lecturer in criminology at the University of Kent, UK, and a contributing writer to The Atlantic.
As I have said Muslims in non-Muslim countries are fifth columnist and should always be kept under watch. This piece of s— Greene can stay where she is. The folks who have her as a prisoner know what to do with her.
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robert lucas
“These are difficult questions and there is little appetite on the part of the current TT government to actively assist in the repatriation of ISIS-affiliated Trini women and children.”
The questions are not difficult. They made their beds let them sleep in them. It is noticeable that Greene is adopting a typical Barbadian stance of trying to straddle the fence when asked questions about the action of ISIS. Let the piece of s— rot in hell first before she is ever allowed back here.
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Hal Austin
@ Robert
Are you surprised? Only the dumb would believe that our Muslims are better than those terrible foreign Muslims and we would not produce any Jihadists. We keep fooling ourselves.
As I have said on numerous occasions: unless traditional white and black Bajans work together these fifth columnists are going to take over the country. We are sleep walking in to disaster.
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Freedom Crier
We can see the Radical Muslim Threat but some do not see the RED threat like our Communist Ambassador to CARICOM, OPEN BORDERS with CHINA TAKING MONEY FROM CHINA, SUPPORTING COMMUNIST IDEOLOGY whether it be Cuba, Nicaragua or Venezuela. Why do we have one Eye Open and the Other Closed?
(Quote):
We can see the Radical Muslim Threat but some do not see the RED threat like our Communist Ambassador to CARICOM, OPEN BORDERS with CHINA TAKING MONEY FROM CHINA, SUPPORTING COMMUNIST IDEOLOGY whether it be Cuba, Nicaragua or Venezuela. Why do we have one Eye Open and the Other Closed? (Unquote)
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Could you, for the benefit of unenlightened one-eyed readers of BU, tell us which country is ‘Capitalist America’s’ biggest trading partner (after the walled-up Mexico)?
Freedom Croaker, when are you going to realize that politicians merely feed the porridge of ideology as propaganda to the masses (like you) while they dine at the table laden with lucre with their ‘elite friends’ of every political persuasion?
The only difference between a politician and a priest ‘lies’ in the kind of lies they both tell to fools like you.
The priest promises manna when you get to heaven while the politician promises the same manna while you are on earth.
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MoneyBrain
Stockholm Syndrome was and is unboubtedly rife.
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robert lucas
@ Hal February 15, 2020 7:44 AM
Obviously where there is one rat found in a food establishment, one can guarantee there are many more.. This posting will get very few comments. just like that POS Greene who is trying to straddle the fence now that she has been caught. Barbadians will be saying she is an exception. I am sorry this whole Muslim thing has some to the fore in the evening of my days, otherwise I would be the first to take up arms against them
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Hal Austin
@ Robert
It is sad. I have seen parts of the UK changed beyond any recognition over the last 50 years. There is a little test I apply: if I go to a local area I look at the demographics, then I look at the make up of employees in shops and offices and reach a conclusion as to who is doing the hiring.
In London a large number of Africans (West and East) are traffic wardens, many of whom behave like warriors. We have the same in many of our hospitals. There is a constant clash between West Indians and these Africans. Watch out for our 120 our of 400 Ghanaian nurses.
With these Muslims (in Barbados most are of Pakistani heritage) it will end in tears. Even Middle Eastern Muslims are wary of these Pakistanis.
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Freedom Crier
@ Miller February 15, 2020 10:23 AM
You cannot compare the Barbados Economy to the US Economy but you can learn learn Principles from the American Economy to Apply them to Barbados if you wanted to. AMERICA IS NOT BEING GIVEN A FREE HAND OUT FROM CHINA THEY PURCHASE THEIR GOODS WHILE COMMUNIST CHINA IS BUYING LOYALTIES ON THE WORLD STAGE AS IN AFRICA, VENEZUELA, THE BAHAMAS AS MENTIONED IN THE VIDEO AND BARBADOS.
America under Trump is LARGELY A CAPITALIST FREE MARKET ECONOMY, that is why the US IS PROSPERING. It is also Blatant that that the Opposite had Occurred by the Do-Little- DemoRats by their Ideology of the Radical Socialist/Communist who believe in Death to America and the reason why they are so Adamant to see Trump fail.
Barbados is Socialist with a Commie Ambassador to CARICOM. If we keep heading in that direction we will end up like Venezuela and Cuba. “THIS TIME YOU CANNOT SAY YOU NEVER KNEW” William Wilberforce.
FREEDOM HOPES THAT THE ADDITIONAL BIRTHING FACILITIES FOR MEGA CRUSE SHIPS IN BARBADOS IS NOT BEING FUNDED BY THE CHINESE AS IN THE BAHAMAS…
WHY DOES A NATION WANT TO BE INDEBTED TO COMMUNIST UNLESS THEY WERE HIDDEN MOTIVES THAT DO NOT MEET THE CASUAL GLANCE?
Take Note…Our PM recently accepted 20 Million from the Chinese to Restart the Sam Lords Project…Now you may understand why the Chinese have a Green Light to come to Barbados in spite of Restrictions due to the Caronovirus! With that loan will come Chinese to build the Infrastructure and other projects. Their plan is to infiltrate to rule the world they know the tactics to use. The Chinese has already gifted us the Gymnasium, it’s not hard to assume what else will follow besides WORSE THAN THE VIRUS, IS THE POSSIBILITY OF THE DEATH OF A NATION BY THE EVENTUAL RISE FROM SOCIALISM TO FULL BLOWN COMMUNISM JUST AS WE SEE THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE IN VENEZUELA…The Goal of Socialism is Communism…Vladimir Lenin.
SOME POLITICIANS WILL SELL THEIR NATIONS SECURITY FOR FAME IN THE NAME OF NAME OF ECONOMIC GROWTH ESPECIALLY WHEN THE AMBASSADOR TO CARICOM IS A KNOWN COMMUNIST!!!
Correction :whole Muslim thing has some to the fore should read come instead of some.
It will end in bloodshed not tears. Muslims think that the non-Muslim world is afraid of them. I salute the Burmese, Chinese and also the Sri Lankans for their response. Treat them like enemies( indeed they are such) Give them no quarter.The best thing Boris can do is scrap the human rights law.
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Miller
@ robert lucas February 15, 2020 12:39 PM
Would you propose the banning of the Bajan-born Muslim woman (Ms Greene) from returning to Barbados although she has not given up her birthright to citizenship?
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TheOGazerts
Some comments should begin or end with “some of my best friends are Miuslims”.
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Donna
What can I say! Some women will follow their husbands ANYWHERE!
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robert lucas
@ Miller February 15, 2020 1:46 PM
I have no problem with it. She decided on a path that, had she been victorious non-Muslims would have been wiped out. I have alluded to the expected reaction of most Barbadians and your reaction verifies my expectation. The UK withdrew citizenship from some of its ISIS followers and the US actually killed some of theirs.. I believe in treating people the same way they treat me. If you have qualms that is your problem. Try living in a Muslim majority country that is all I would suggest that you do. I do not live in a world of make belief.
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Miller
@ robert lucas February 15, 2020 4:32 PM
That’s a rather ‘extreme’ position to take there, Robert!
Why that ‘collective punishment’ approach?
Jesus would have forgiven them 70 times 7.
Do you hold that same position regarding the filthy rich ‘Moslems’ who own massive real estate and investments in Western countries like the UK, France and even USA?
If not for the ‘rich’ Islamists may businesses like Harrods, Fortnum & Mason, Macy’s, Christie’s and Sotheby’s would have to close their doors.
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Hal Austin
Jihadists are mass murderers. They cannot be reformed.
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Miller
@ Miller February 15, 2020 5:26 PM
Should read:
‘Many businesses’.
BTW Robert, the ‘terrorists’ who humiliated the USA in the 9/11 moment of supreme shame were from Saudi Arabia the ancestral home of jihadists and ISIS.
Why don’t the Americans and their allies invade that country the den of the serpent of terrorism?
You should ask yourself who are the Western ‘business people’ selling the weapons of destruction to ISIS and their rivals for international attention.
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WURA-WAR-on-U
You can’t take sides in any of this, too convoluted.
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Donna
Personally speaking I don’t like the Muslim faith’s treatment of women. It is behind the modern Christian faith by a long way even though the Christian faith still has improvements to make in that regard.
But it is my opinion that these people have to be left alone to evolve in their own time They cannot be forced into a modern understanding if it is to stick.
Most Muslims are not extremists and we must not lump them all together as some of you are doing here. I know some of them who engage me in conversation like any other person and show only respect for me and my freedom to choose my religion. These people are not interested in blowing me or anyone else into oblivion for the sake of their religion or world domination.
Years ago when I was doing the diploma in Theology at Codrington College we visited a mosque and had conversations with the official there. We discussed the violence of the extremists and he said that though it was not the way that he would choose or recommend, he could understand how others would arrive at that position. No-one was alarmed because we knew it was as WARU says, too convoluted.
Thing is that the victims of these extremists are mostly other Muslims. I do not pretend to understand the complexities of this situation but I would object strongly to those who have had no part in it being blown into oblivion. And that includes Americans living their own lives without any control over American foreign policy. This thing has to end but I don’t know how it can ever happen. The die was cast many many years ago. Perhaps centuries ago. Even if the Americans and Europeans withdrew and left them to their own devices they would probably still carry a grudge for years and years.
A toxic brew of religion and politics and business interests. Who can figure it out? Not me!
The world has always been a dangerous place. This is nothing new. Nobody ever “has tomorrow put down”.
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Silly Woman
@Donna February 15, 2020 2:31 PM “What can I say! Some women will follow their husbands ANYWHERE!”
What can I say! Some women are idiots, and too love to follow misogynistic foolishness calling itself religion.
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Silly Woman
@Miller February 15, 2020 5:42 PM “the ‘terrorists’ who humiliated the USA in the 9/11 moment of supreme shame were from Saudi Arabia the ancestral home of jihadists and ISIS. Why don’t the Americans and their allies invade that country the den of the serpent of terrorism?”
One: O-I-L.
Two: M-O-N-E-Y.
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Silly Woman
@Donna “A toxic brew of religion and politics and business interests. ”
And TESTOSTERONE.
And it int that complicated.
MEN too love POWER over others, and they too love MONEY.
And there idiotic, lazy women who don’t like to THINK and don’t like to WORK, so they latch on to any man who will think for them and work for them.
Stupssseee!!!
And we go along pretending that it is some big, big geopolitical/theological issue.
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Silly Woman
I”ve seen this nonsensical female behaviour in “fundamentalist Christian” women and in “fundamentalist Muslim” women.
It is like BLP and DLP, same damn party.
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robert lucas
@ Donna February 15, 2020 8:00 PM
“Most Muslims are not extremists and we must not lump them all together as some ”
That is only the case when they are in the minority. When they are in the majority it is a different ball-game. You should acquaint yourself about the ummah concept. Anyhow, your reaction verifies what I predicted would be the stance of most Barbadians, trying to straddle the fence and appear reasonable. As I said go and live in a Muslim majority country and find out for yourself.
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robert lucas
@ Miller February 15, 2020 5:26 PM
My stance is very clear on this topic as can be verified by my posts on it on this Blog.. Do you think trading with them, results in a change in outlook towards them? stop being naïve.
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robert lucas
@ Silly Woman February 15, 2020 9:30 PM
A feminist like you would have a very hard time living in a Muslim majority country
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Donna
I am not trying to straddle any fence and appear reasonable. It is what I believe. I would NEVER live in a Muslim majority country although I have a cousin who does due to her husband’s job and she has no problem. I know it would be unbearable for me. But I can only judge those here by their behaviour here. So far I have had no trouble with them. Exactly what would you have me do? They are already here. What do you suggest the government do? We cannot protest being profiled based on something others have done and then do the same to others. You speak of picking up arms against them. How exactly would you do that? Would you round them all up, men, women and children and shoot them????
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Hal Austin
@ Robert
I hear that nonsense about the majority of Muslims being law abiding blah, blah, blah. It is true, the majority may not plant bombs, but THEY DO support the bombers – through contributions at the mosques (in the UK it runs to billions), through their soft support (listen to the excuses about the London-born woman who had her citizenship taken away, that she was only a kid – 15 yrs old – when she went off to Isis and that she has never visited Bangladesh). nonsense.
Muslims in the UK sprung out of the wood work, demonstrating their difference, after 9/11. It was noticeable and was an act of defiance.
There is an article in today’s Sunday Sun about the treatment meted out to a young Muslim woman that exposes where bigotry will take us.
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robert lucas
@ David
I haven’t read the article. I suggest that you inform those Muslims in Muslim majority countries about the article on bigotry and see what they have to say about it. As I said, I believe in treating people the same way they treat me. If that means violence and chaos so be it. I do not believe in turning the other cheek.
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robert lucas
@ Donna February 16, 2020 1:35 AM
“But I can only judge those here by their behaviour here.”
This is the point I made( Hal also) by referring to them as fifth columnist. They are in the minority now so they bide their time until they are in the majority. As I have said since the year 2000 I have reported on the actions of Muslims in the local media. I had an interesting exchange with one of them who spent two years in Saudi Arabia. where Salafism an extreme form of Islam is entrenched. The man by his comments in the press is an extremist of the highest order..I suggest that you start doing research on the topic.
Do like Isabella of Aragon: you don’t even have to go back that far; do what the Muslims in the Holy Lands are doing to the Christians. Similarly what is being done to the Coptic Christians. Whether or not you want to accept it, there is going to be a clash, a bloody clash and with the present generation of “Woke” people in the west., the outcome will be negative for them.
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555dubstreet
USA and Israel invented drones and implemented false flags using proxies in order to engage in PNAC wars. Twenty years later the next generation boots on the ground coalition force fighting Isis are made of muslims.
This blogmaster operates from an opposite philosophical base. Our mission in life must be to make the world a better place. It will not happen by allowing the behaviour of others to compromise this thinking.
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Greene
i view islam and christianity as janus faced- both are conquering religions of which black people should have no part.
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robert lucas
@ David February 16, 2020 8:02 AM
I read the article about the Muslim woman and the reclining seat. There is also a similar case in either the UK or the US with a white man and a white woman. The white woman reclined the seat and the man pushed it back. The woman is talking about suing. So what is the point you are making? The article verifies the point I have been making that Muslims in the west are constantly trying to depict themselves as martyrs. It is noticeable that the reciprocal action on the part of non-believers is not condoned in Muslim majority countries.
You are free to have your philosophical base: such a high sounding phrase ( a feel good stance): makes the holder of the outlook feel as though they occupy the high moral ground. Such an outlook is for those who believe in utopia. The world is full of evil people.
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Miller
@ robert lucas February 16, 2020 1:18 AM
“My stance is very clear on this topic as can be verified by my posts on it on this Blog.. Do you think trading with them, results in a change in outlook towards them? stop being naïve.”
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It is you, dear doc, who are being naïve on this ‘non-science’ matter.
It’s not a matter of trading but one of ownership and control.
The rich Moslems own much in the western capitalist system; just like the so-called communist Chinese.
What do you propose should be done about this ‘commercial’ fact?
Moslems are not known to have great manufacturing enterprises engaged in the production of arms and ammunitions.
It is the western capitalists, Russians and Chinese who are well equipped to supply these bleeding idiots calling themselves jihadists and who financed by rich Saudi Arabia and the other oil-rich Gulf states.
Were Muslims responsible for the decimation of the Jews in Europe? Was ‘Christian’ Hitler a jihadists?
Was Jim Jones or David Koresh an Islamic suicide bomber?
Just remember that religion is used by humans (of all colours and stripes) both as a door to humanitarianism and as a wall to hide behind in order to carry out acts of evil such as mass murder (genocide) and stealing of resources including other humans as in the case of the trans-Atlantic slave trade.
History is replete with both cases.
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Miller
@ Miller February 16, 2020 9:17 AM
Should read:
“…..and who [are] financed by rich Saudi Arabia and the other oil-rich Gulf states.”
You could easily have supported your position by asking if the West created Osama In Laden and why. Such hypocrisy.
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Sargeant
They could have come to a mutual understanding with a little common courtesy instead we are supposed to have sympathy for a tiny Muslim woman who is being discriminated against by a white woman. It’s no fun flyin an enclosed metal box or several hours with 200 plus other coughing,belching,sneezing and farting humans. If I had the money it would be business class for me every time. I once was on a flight where my next door neighbor was invading my space by taking up much of the armrest,next time a woman (white) complained that I was taking up too much space perhaps she was right. The biggest culprit in the seat wars is the airlines as they have some pimply face kid trying to configure how to get many more people on planes that were originally configured to carry much lest and as we know people aren’t getting any smaller. Nowadays when I travel I have my noise cancelling headphones and my better half to keep me company so far that has worked.
The golden rule “One mans comfort is another mans discomfort”
BTW we will soon enter the era of strap hangers on airlines then the fur will really fly
Muslims were responsible for the genocide of the Armenians. The genocide of the Armenians by Muslims is a fact of history. So I don’t see your point. I replied to Hal that the Barbadian response would be typical of a people who have no self respect or back-bone-a spineless set of sanctimonious hypocrites.
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In the Name of Common Sense
Reading these comments today were quite interesting, if for nothing else but the extreme ignorance and fear-mongering displayed in them.
To use extremist fundamentalists as the yardstick against which to measure all other Muslims is virtually the same as using Jim Jones as an example of all Christians. We can all agree that Jim Jones does not represent the Christian faith. Neither do these fundamentalists, and in my view having familiarized myself with the teachings of Islam, nor many of these barbaric so-called Muslim countries, like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan etc.
Islam, from my reading, promotes the healthy respect of women. Where previous to the arrival of Mohammed in Arabia, parents would bury their daughters alive, he stopped that barbaric practice. Where Christians blame Eve as being the cause of humanity’s downfall, the Muslims believe that she and Adam were equal partners in that sin and therefore equally responsible. Here there is no woman-blaming. Mohammed’s first wife a financially independent, thriving businesswoman, affirming his belief that women are not religiously confined to the home but have all rights to go out and work. The list goes on an on. Many of the problems that people identify with Islam and women’s rights have little do with the religion itself but more so with subsequent laws made by men. Just like the plethora of laws which have oppressed women in our hemisphere for centuries.
The most salient quote from the Quran to dispel notions of conquering dominance is that there is to be no compulsion in religion (Chap 2: Verse 256). Therefore, the actions of ISIS and all the other extremists who seek to use violence to impose themselves on others is totally and completely against the teachings of the religion of Islam. Their jihads of killing innocent people who have done nothing wrong, over in the Middle East or in bombings and knife attacks over in our hemisphere is totally and completely abhorrent to Islam. Mohammed ordered his army in one of the last battles ever conducted in his lifetime that they should do a number of things in war, including:
1. Never kill innocent women and children or the elderly, or even able-bodied, who are not fighting you (normal citizens going about their business at nightclubs, malls etc in the US and Europe therefore according to these words cannot be killed or hurt)
2. Do not kill livestock of the enemy lands or burn down agricultural farms etc. This is unnecessary destruction.
3. Prisoners of war are to be treated in the most humane way possible.
4. Only use force if force is used against you, so in self-defence or a preemptory strike.
Among many others. Note that this was in the 7th century AD, many, many centuries before the Geneva Convention on the Rules of War etc in the late 19th century and early 20th.
The most important thing to note too is that these rules of engagement apply only to states. What Max Weber called the entities with the monopoly on the legitimate use of force. So in order to engage in acts of war you must be a lawfully-constituted state. ISIS, Al Qaeda and the others are a brigade of vagabonds who are not allowed in Islam to take the law into their hands and wage war.
Finally, as it relates to the Greene woman, while it may sound selfish, she should probably be left over there to face whatever consequences come. In Barbados, we don’t have the resources for the complex re-education programs to de-program these people, so we could ask the Americans or the Brits to put her in one of theirs, but preferably just leave her there.
for me the most important take away is that the Muslims here, if they follow their scriptures and teachings pose no threat to our Western democratic values. They are not in any way equivalent to the monsters abroad. It’s time that people like Hal Austin, Robert Lucas et al begin to take a mature view of life and realise that you can’t demonise a whole group of people. That is the beginnings of entrenching hateful ideologies. The blueprint for that is there. You begin to view this whole group as being alien, repugnant and disgusting, and then start to fear them and then it isn’t far off for you to start cleansing them. Final note: praising the Burmese, Sri Lankans, Chinese etc for their inhuman treatment of Muslims is just disgusting. People like Robert Lucas who have done so appear to be guilty of spewing the same hate-filled, inhuman doctrine that drives white supremacists, Nazis, Islamic extremists and the various other haters of the world. all men and women deserve humane treatment. Perhaps if we followed the Islamic principle of even treating our enemies and prisoners of war with humanity and dignity, the world would be such a better place.
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Sargeant
@Hants
I’m sure that Trudeau is fully apprised of the situation, he will have to make a decision. In the meanwhile the local press is touting the potential visit
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robert lucas
@In the Name of Common Sense February 16, 2020 12:55 PM
You have verified what have I stated ( to Hal Austin) about the response to be expected from most Barbadians.
“for me the most important take away is that the Muslims here, if they follow their scriptures and teachings pose no threat to our Western democratic values”
Where do live? It cannot be on earth. Muslims in interviews in the UK and USA have made it perfectly clear that they do not like living in a democracy and would like to impose their way of life on the non-believers. The best that can be said for you is that you are naïve (living in a land of make belief). The Central African Republic is an example to bear in mind. A country with more than ninety-percent of the population being Christian’ the other ten-percent or so Muslim. The ten-percent with the connivance of Chad and the Arab league, staged a coup and enforced sharia law on the ninety-percent. The Muslims burnt down Churches and raped and slaughtered thousands of Christians. The Christians have been fighting back. There was UN intervention and troops ( Muslim) from Chad were sent to act as peace keepers. The UN had to rescind the mandate of the troops from Chad when it was discovered that they were actively siding with Muslim coup stagers in carrying out atrocities against Christian.
You need to face reality.
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robert lucas
Correction: You have verified what I have stated….
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robert lucas
Correction :
Should read “Where do you live?”
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fortyacresandamule
With the murder rate in the region at civil war level , we have nothing on moderate muslim countries like: The Maldives, Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc. You are more likely to be shot and killed in Jamaica than in Iraq or Syria. Never mind Jamaica having more churches per square mile in the world.
@ robert lucas February 16, 2020 12:55 PM
“Muslims were responsible for the genocide of the Armenians. The genocide of the Armenians by Muslims is a fact of history. So I don’t see your point. I replied to Hal that the Barbadian response would be typical of a people who have no self respect or back-bone-a spineless set of sanctimonious hypocrites.”
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Yes Bricky, yes you do see my point.
It is clearly visible in your reinforcement of the point that there is no difference when it comes evil acts like genocide hiding behind the cloak of religion of the ‘extremists’ kind.
The Muslims of the extremist persuasion are no different from those of the other members of the Abrahamic faith or even those of other religions who believe that their god is supreme to other people’s gods.
Just look at the reason the ‘white’ European-descended Jews are giving for the containment of the Muslim Palestinians similar to what their own ancestors experienced in’ Christianized’ Europe under Hitler starting with Kristallnacht.
Isn’t the guise of religion always the means to take control of other people’s resources?
Isn’t that the same guise (using the ‘missionary position’) used by Europeans to grab the lands and resources which the North American and Australasian indigenous peoples believed to be theirs?
PS: There are more Muslims in the UK, Europe and North America than will ever live in tiny Barbados.
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