Comment posted by John A @2019/05/29 at 5:31 pm
…I come home this evening to find a Land tax bill in my mail box for the same amount I paid last year for a 12 month period, however this bill only covering the period from the last bill till now which is only roughly 7 months. So can you tell me if I should go to the Fair Trading Comission and lodge a complaint for receiving a bill for a calender year but only covering a 7 month period?
I mean I ain t got no alphabet behind my name but somehow to pay 12 months in land rental to the government for only 7 months of occupancy seem wrong to me.
Help advise a small man what to do here fellers cause the way I see it this tax period I either getting double bill per months of occupancy, or I get a 50 percent in land tax based on me paying in 7 months what I paid in 12 last year.
So wait next year bill going come out in February then and we going pay a full land tax amount for 8 months next year too?…
Comment posted by Gabriel @ 2019/05/29 at 10:00 pm
Your point is well made.The tax demand is for the Financial Year 2019-20 so that Finance would proffer that the payment can be demanded anytime after April 2019 but in that event the next payment should not be due until April 2020,one year after as you have pointed out.I was around long enough to know that these tax bills offered a 10% discount in the first instance usually in November and a 5% discount in the second instance in December before the full amount is due and payable.Now it’s a 5% discount only after which the full amount is demanded.So we have seen significant changes in the Tax Demand Notice without so much as a whimper from Mr Ryan Straughan. (1)A big increase,(2)less discount for prompt payment and (3)less than a calendar year elapsing before demanding the following year’s payment.Property owners are sitting ducks as are the PAYE class.
Two Land Tax Bills in Eight Months
Comment posted by John A @2019/05/29 at 5:31 pm …I come home this evening to find a Land tax bill in my mail box for the same amount I paid last year for a 12 month period, however this bill only covering the period from the last bill till now which is only roughly 7…
252 responses to “Two Land Tax Bills in Eight Months”
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@ David
Always spouting negative read bile.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxI apologize if I don’t follow your plan in expressing what I know are facts.
You seem to want Robots on BU who mirror your thinking and have to be in agreement with you for your approval.
I will never be an ass kisser and will call it as I see it or from personal FACTUAL experience.
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Vincent got your point now you corrected the spell correct.
We still left with a shorter contract period between the 2018 and 2019 payment due date however you slice and dice it.
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“This is their proganda to justify taxing and all kind of dubious expenditures.”
yep..that’s the PATTERN..and they KNOW the average Bajan CANNOT SEE IT..that is why they do what thy do.
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Vincent you now hit the nail on the head CASHFLOW AS a result of a shorter period between the due dates of 2018 and 2019.
So the question is if I rent you a house for a year before the 12 month period is finish can I carry up the rent?
Secondly with business down how will this increase in tax over a shorter period now affect prices of products sold in thesr stores? Will they try to support the need for higher cash flow by raising prices? How will it affect commercial rents which will have to be passed on?
So yes we have 2 issues, one is a massive increase in the land tax bill and the second is a shorter breathing period between bills thus making it hard for everyone to finance it resulting from this new 8 month year.
I spoke about an hour ago to someone who owns a small complex and he said if he had to recover the increase from his tenants, each would need to pay an additional $250 in rent monthly. The hardest hit people were those with vacant lots and properties in excess of $800,000. They got smacked with a 35% increase. 30 % came from the bill and they then lost 5% from the movement of discount from 10 to 5%.
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I posted the whole thing so they cant lie and say Bloomberg is lying.
Markets
“Barbados Clashes With Creditors in Talks to Cut Greece-Like Debt
By Ezra Fieser
May 30, 2019, 6:00 AM AST
Prime Minister Mottley ‘will not compromise’ on debt targets
Creditors warn ‘unilateral’ government offer will be rejected
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Barbados’ prime minister is butting heads with creditors over how to cut one of the world’s largest sovereign debt loads, creating a sticking point in the year-long negotiations to restructure the Caribbean nation’s defaulted dollar bonds.Talks with foreign creditors have dragged on since last June, when Prime Minister Mia Mottley said she would restructure the island’s “unsustainably high” debt burden. While both sides said they are open to continued negotiation, they appear far from consensus.
A committee of creditors, who hold 55% of outstanding dollar debt, said Wednesday that they plan to unanimously reject a government proposal to exchange defaulted bonds for new debt unless the two sides negotiate together.
“The committee strongly believes that the launch of a unilateral exchange offer by the government of Barbados without the support of the committee will be highly detrimental to the country’s economic stability,” they said in a statement.
Both sides agree the country of 300,000 people needs to cut debt levels. Yet talks have soured in recent weeks over how much of the burden should be borne by creditors in the form of deep haircuts or other terms. For its part, the government said it isn’t willing to negotiate targets established when it took a bailout from the International Monetary Fund last year.
No Compromise
At that time, the government estimated debt had ballooned to about 175% of gross domestic product, meaning it owed around $9 billion. That would have made it one of the world’s most-indebted countries, trailing only a handful of others, including Greece, according to IMF figures. Mottley said she “will not compromise” on the goal of bringing that ratio down to 60% by 2033.“We leave it to creditors to decide whether this is achieved through a par deal with long tenors and low interest rates, or face value haircuts with shorter tenors and higher interest rates. But the targets must be met in full,” she said in a written response to questions.
Mottley inherited a troubled $5 billion economy when she took office last May. The island known for its white sand beaches had been struggling for years amid competition from less-pricey Caribbean tourism destinations, crumbling infrastructure, and a currency that’s pegged to the U.S. dollar. She quickly struck a $290 million deal with the IMF and restructured about $6 billion in local currency debt.
The government owes around $700 million in dollar bonds, plus bank loans and other foreign debts, according to a spreadsheet posted to a website for creditors in January. Bonds maturing in 2035 have rarely traded in recent months, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
The creditors committee said it put forth an offer two weeks ago “based on terms that aim to support the government’s debt and reform objectives while creating restructured instruments with broad market acceptance.” The committee said it is made up of long-term investors, regional central banks, individual bondholders and financial institutions and represented by advisers Newstate Partners and Washington-based law firm Arnold & Porter Kaye Scholer LLP.
The creditors contend that their offer would have allowed the government to reach its debt target a year later than it wants, according to people familiar with the committee’s negotiations. The committee’s position is that the government’s estimates fail to take into account certain revenue variables and that it is trying force severe restructuring terms on creditors to meet its debt targets, said the people, who were not authorized to discuss the negotiations.
White Oak Advisory, which is representing the government in negotiations, said the creditors’ offer “fails to meet IMF test for debt sustainability, and by quite some margin,” according to an email statement. “It is disappointing that Barbados continues to be faced with this kind of position after almost a year of negotiations.”
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You are one of the MOST INDEBTED COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD..and ya corrupt government is still playing around with scams and tricks and hiding information and setting up the populi to lose their properties…
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“The committee strongly believes that the launch of a unilateral exchange offer by the government of Barbados without the support of the committee will be highly detrimental to the country’s economic stability,” they said in a statement.”
if you plan to BRING DOWN YA OWN COUNTRY..and even the CREDITORS CAN SEE IT..
me thinks it will not end well..ah don’t even need a degree to see that.. cause a burnt all a dem already…
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yep…this is the true definition of PUNCHING ABOVE YA WEIGHT..
this is what Koffi Anan meant…and shitehounds turned it into some useless catch phrase…now look..ya punched so high ABOVE YA WEIGHT AND YA INTELLIGENCE..ya will drop on ya arrogant, dumb ass.
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WARU,
With you, it’s always the “others” who are to blame. Grab yourself by the nose. Neither COW nor Bizzy are responsible for the poor work ethic, the financial carelessness and the financial illiteracy of the masses.
Mia Mottley must now correct as Prime Minister what old Barbadian men have screwed up in their hubris since 1966.
In any case, I wish our Prime Minister and her Attorney General every success in the negotiations. You must understand that the international creditors do not want to pay for the carelessness and arrogance of the Barbadian masses, who still believe they are better than the rest of West India.
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WARU,
You’re very well informed about the negotiations. It almost seems that you are the assistant of the traitor Dr. Worrell.
Worrell first destroyed Barbados on Big Sinck’s orders and now he is stabbing his countrymen in the back who want to repair his work of destruction. The man knows no shame and obviously has no conscience.
The government should withdraw Worrell’s citizenship and impose an entry ban on him.
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Incredible Delisle Worrell is leading the negotiation on behalf of the external creditors. It is good the government is prepared to stiffen its spine in the matter. There is a reason why the creditors went to the FT to use PR to create pressure. We may not agree with the SD but not that we are here let us support the best deal for Barbados.
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Wait what tax filing deadline is tomorrow and the governemnt can’t even get the system up and working???…that info is all over FB…that is what Tron should be fixing instead of on here popping shit..
Never met Worrell…not too keen on him, sorry to burst ya bubble…am more familiar with his wife.
But yall worse than him..
Ah never heard he tief anything from the PEOPLE YET…but yall fingerprints are all over the theft of properties, public funds, money off people’s bank accounts…yall are a shameful disgrace to the island…everyone is talking about you everywhere.
and ya know what got me really pissed…yall have the black people who have all the info ya need in their heads…to help you with what you need. they have been doing for CENTURIES..it is what they do best…but yall won’t want to hear them causein ya evil criminal minds… they too BLACK…and they don’t do corruption…yall only want to see white, corrupt faces, indian corrupt faces, middle eastern corrupt faces…so now …TAKE WHAT YA GET,, ya are so deserving.
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With all that is happening govt planning to have a pissy poor rakey meeting in Carlisle bay to brainwash the supporters that all is going well with the economy
I heard plenty koolaid would be served -
@ John at 12:17 PM
It all depends on what the objective of the decision to raise land tax was. You will suffer a reduction in profits by the increase in land tax. The GoB will get an increase in land tax but a decrease in income tax. And if you lose a renter even less taxable income. in the final analysis no increase in total revenue to GoB. But I am sure the Tax analysts did the computation. Or will they express surprise at the end of the fiscal year? So overall depending on your revenue and expenditure structure you should not lose . But the probability of a downward dive in your income is very high. Do the maths.
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This govt thinks it is dealing with a bunch of backward thinking economist
Barbados would have hell to pay if an agrerment is not reached very soon
Barrow warnings are beginning to see the light of day -
“Neither COW nor Bizzy are responsible for the poor work ethic, the financial carelessness and the financial illiteracy of the masses.”
but they are responsible for 95% of the land thefts.
95% of the THEFTS FROM THE TREASURY
95% of the THEFTS FROM NIS PENSION FUND
they are responsible for the nasty racism and apartheid still on the island
they are reponsible for BRIBING ALL OF U…because you collude with and enable them to …ROB YA OWN PEOPLEthat is what you and them are RESPONSIBLE FOR…
ya should be ashamed to say your own people are financially illiterate..WHEN YOU ARE THE ONES KEEP THEM THAT WAY..SO YA CAN ROB THEM.
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It is interesting to note that Athur Holder has withdrawn from this case where he through an associate was representing Prescod the other party in this matter.
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“@ Waru
They spit out big numbers for Projects to dumb down the average Bajan who make up the masses.”
yeah…like the 40 million dollar SCAMMERS Dale Whistleblower jumped out with and when it blew up on him …cause the scam was clear to see..he retracted pronto….
……we are yet to hear him jump out with a new quote…cause the WORLD knows 2 scanners cost $8 million
they were going to RIP OF 32 MILLION DOLLARS FROM THE TREASURY …IN BROAD DAYLIGHT..
see now why that disgusting set off lowlife thieves and their bribers the Cow Bizzy combo et al…fought SO LONG AND SO HARD…and spent TONS OF MONEY..to keep social media out of Barbados…because all they do in collusion with both filthy governments…is rob the treasury and pension fund and everything else and anyone else they can intimidate and bully to rip off.
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To the idiot Tron. Nobody is asking for a tax cut. We are simply asking not to be double billed.
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Vincent that is my concern too sadly. My view on why all this will not work in governments favour is this.
Let us say an economy is worth 4 billion dollars yearly and you impose new taxes, all you will do is shift the collection name of the taxes from one to another. So you increase land tax and vat falls as people whose income has not increased, shops less to try and squirrel away a few dollars to pay the land tax with. In the end the only way you will collect more taxes is if the economy grows from say 4 billion to 4.5 billion. I am only using these numbers for reference and not stating that is our economic base for the record.
I hear politicians talking about a growth plan but that can not happen under this approach. The reason is simply this, every dollar taken out the economy in taxes is one less dollar for the economy to grow by. But I guess the experts with a whole alphabet behind their name would argue different. Then again who it is paying them again?
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Incredible Delisle Worrell is leading the negotiation on behalf of the external creditors. It is good the government is prepared to stiffen its spine in the matter. There is a reason why the creditors went to the FT to use PR to create pressure. We may not agree with the SD but not that we are here let us support the best deal for Barbados.(Quote)
Is this real? Dr Worrell is simply working. The fault is the decision to default and the creditors (and White Oaks) should squeeze them until the pips squeak.
This fake patriotism is as bogus as the people pushing it. It is rightwing and reactionary and associated with the populism of the new Hitlerites. It is the logic of a convert.
It is Trump at his best, semi-literate nonsense. And to smear a great newspaper as being instrumental in propaganda is the lowest of the low. Appalling. -
And so we are not only being double billed, but my tax bill has gone from $1334.40 to $1668.00 so maybe I am being triple billed for land which was purchased in 1957, and zoned as 1 by the government in 1962. All governments from 1962 to the present have forbidden us to develop the land, now this present government is punishing us with increased taxes for not developing it.
There are half a dozen engineers, architects etc. in the family. We would be happy to develop if given permission to do so. But from the 1960’s on we have been approached by political operatives, who have sometimes been sitting members of parliament wishing to buy on behalf of “clients”
But we won’t sell to our own disadvantage. In addition since 1962 the family size has tripled, so we are guaranteed to outlive ALL political operatives.
We will wait until ALL of this lot are safely dead.
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Battle of the Titans
Mia Mottley against international financial capitalismBarbados faces a decisive turning point in its glorious centuries-old history as a result of negotiations with international creditors. Either Mia Mottley will win or the island will fall into the void. Wiley is right.
In this situation, anyone who joins the chorus of international financial capitalists against White Oak is opposed to the nation and to the country. Who knows, perhaps the creditors have not only Worrell on their payroll, but also other figures in Barbados to blackmail the government. Just read the BU and Barbados Today articles carefully. Hear the opposition in the Senate. They all deceive Barbados by criticizing White Oak.
Our government must stand firm now. The government must not listen to any ISO engineers and the opposition on social media and in the Senate. In this difficult hour we need patriots and not selfish vassals of foreign financial capitalism.
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Hal if govt is prepared to play hard ball with these creditors it better be prepared to payout big bucks to lawyers
The way things look it seems as if the frustration level has reached an all time high by the creditors as if to say enough is enough -
“We will wait until ALL of this lot are safely dead”
you go girl…..lol
apparently the same lot believe they are going to live forever to sell out and tief forever…
but we can also do what they do to the population…WAIT FOR ALL OF THEM TO DEAD…lol
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The GOB was RIGHT to have defaulted!
Have some here ever heard about debtor power.
In circumstances where there was no room to maneuver there was little choice but to default.
When we are ready we will be cussing this government real bad
But to suggest that they should not have defaulted
While at the same time holding no corrective for the last DLP regime which preceded over an economic Armageddon. is at least disingenuous
And at worst, infantile.
Maybe Enuff’s judgement is right after all!
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presided
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Even as parasitic and vulture-like as some creditors can be…you do not string them along for a year with long talk, sit as responsible adults and hammer out an agreement…but go playing hard ball…good luck..
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@Hal at 7:48
Are so so foolish as to believe that only the English can speak and write English? David does indeed “have a way with words.” Is However is there any evidence that it is the result of a Canadian or American education?
Or are you just biased?
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Sir Simple you have to do like some one who married a bad wife. Don’t divorce her and lose half outlive her and keep all!
Seriously though I see your point. I can tell you of a middle class family who own a piece of beach land on the west coast. The land has been in their family for well over 60 years and they collectively put together every year and pay the land tax on it, knowing they had 12 months to save till the next tax bill, but look below at what has now happened to them.
Each of these family members who own their own homes, has now been hit hard with increases for the roof over their own head. So the “donation” they made at tax time to pay the family beach lot they must now use to pay for their own house tax, so what you think is their option now? They will sell the land to the first foreigner that comes along, as maintaining their own home is more important than keeping the piece of beach front land, even if it was in the family for 60 years.
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“and the opposition on social media and in the Senate. ”
opposition in social media is the STRONGEST AND LEAST CORRUPT OPPOSITION the island has ever had…yall should be glad..
and we will show you…just how strong we are…
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waru isn’t your husband a white tourist
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“They will sell the land to the first foreigner that comes along, as maintaining their own home is more important than keeping the piece of beach front land, even if it was in the family for 60 years.”
that’s the plan…and mysteriously ya will find it is taking forever to sell but ya will suddenly hear some lowlife disease from some white country telling ya that the 1/4 piece of man Payne…sold ya property to them and they don’t want any ni**ers on their property…
IT IS A PATTERN…
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WARU
Has the GOB not made headway with local creditors/bondholders, the IMF, CDB etc?
And if that is so, should that position not be leveraged into a deal with the foreign debtholders? Even if hard ball tactics are required? Is this not the kind of government one should yearn for?
As we see it, the GOB has moved in the right way
To criticize them for its own sake is unhelpful.
Just a year ago, you were happy to see the last ones gone, when we were warning you about what was to come.
What happened!
Why blame this regime, forgetting how we got here, proximately?
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“waru isn’t your husband a white tourist”
whatever gave you that idea…no he ain’t..not like you and James Pervert who like to grab black women…cause ya think ya have some right, my husband is a gentleman who respect women of all hues..he was brought up…not DRAGGED UP…no wonder yall so perverted..
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Barbados 2019 sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Yes selling the property is one option we as property owners would have i suppose, but few are buying now and with many locals indebted to the bank, their is little room some have in terms of discounting and selling the lot cheap. Plus remember if the buyer is local he too will be faced with the same land tax bill the seller is running from. Truly a catch 22 for sure.
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The crediitors are seeing a parallel of differences in the way govt defaulted and how they were able to hire White Oaks at astronomical fees
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@ Simple Simon
@Hal at 7:48
Are so so foolish as to believe that only the English can speak and write English? David does indeed “have a way with words.” Is However is there any evidence that it is the result of a Canadian or American education?
Or are you just biased?(Quote)This is what I said:
@ Greene,
The guy has a problem (you call it a way) with the language. Maybe it is the result of a Canadian or US education. It is certainly not Bajan English.(Quote)Can you see a difference in meaning? I say, unlike you, David BU is not comfortable with the English language, not even Bajan English. Just read his posts.
From reading the above, it seems as if you have your own problems too. This is not the first time you have done this. Maybe it is habit or just BU custom. -
“And if that is so, should that position not be leveraged into a deal with the foreign debtholders? Even if hard ball tactics are required? Is this not the kind of government one should yearn for?
As we see it, the GOB has moved in the right way”
what you think will be the outcome of this hardball strategy…now if the government was an honest one and not trying all these slick tricks…with the populi…i would say fine…but their track record is the problem Pacha…they have an ugly track record that NEVER BENEFITS THE PEOPLE…
what they leveraged with local creditors…should have been transferred to this negotiation…with a tweak here and there…but do you really think they can win at hardball…when they will be still in the hole…whether they face down external creditors or not…remember…they still gotta go back to the same creditors..TO CONTINUE TO BORROW.
cause ya done know with their uppity selves, corrupt and no care for their own people selves, even with successful negotiations…they still will not allow the masses any leeway to control their own destiny, economy, and control every aspect of the island that their money maintains…
a double barrel shotgun blast….TO THE FOOT…as usual…ya heard shitehound Tron talking about the financial illiteracy of the populi…because they all plan to keep it that way..and complain about it…blame the victims..fill their own pockets..continue the corruption uninterrupted..
that’s the problem i have Pacha..
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WARU
We agree. The whole political culture is ugly and we are for its overthrow, including this BLP regime, no doubt.
However, in the meantime we have a newly ‘elected’ government, on an extended honeymoon, trying to do the right thing in very difficult circumstances.
And yes, we too believe that nuff shite maybe going on that we know little about because modern governments cannot help but be corrupt and never could, for an extended period, really serve all the people.
We are not as aware as to presume a simple transference, from local to foreign debt restructuring, were possible.
Yes again, we too have deep problems with how they always seem to direct investment, resources, etc to elites forces. Even at the worst of times. Times when redistribution of wealth should be paramount.
We understand that they may even be some people, even at this time, as Mugabe as admitted, who maybe still getting their kickbacks, and ting.
Maybe expecting a leopard to change its spots would require something other than an election.
But on the technical handling of the foreign debt issue, regrettably, we will have to part ways.
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It is easy to be destructively critical. It will require a Herculean effort over years to pull the country from the hole it is currently anchored. Until we see growth the government has not choice but to cut government expenditure and distribute the burden of paying taxes in an equitable a manner, if one can use the term. Barbados did not get here overnight and we will not improve our situation in one year.
The government made a change to the land tax rate structure to exempt and low rate values below a threshold did it not?
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David
Your talk about the equitable distribution of tax burden sounds real sweet. Good political talk too.
The real truth has always been that the vulnerable will be unable to avoid the slings and arrows for taxes which government will send their way.
On the next hand, this same government will be/has looked to the same elites, who purportedly are to pay progressively more, who have an ability to constructs all kinds of tax avoidance schemes, to direct their growth initiatives towards.
Therein lies the WARU conundrum.
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@Pacha
Tax policy will always stoke debate. The government needs revenue derived from taxes. Many owe taxes both the rich and the poor.
The vulnerable will always be with us and must be protected. However, we know collecting taxes in Barbados is an inefficient business. BRA was meant to address the leaking tax bucket. We know the result.
One expects government to address the concern raised here tomorrow on the radio show? They are scheduled to meet the VoB press and public. We need a system which looks to be equitable knowing at the same time there is no perfect system.
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@ Simple Simon
i used the phrase “a way with words” so let me explain it this way.
it seems to me that Bajans like Americans dont understand sarcasm.
Hal understood exactly what i meant by that phrase and responded accordingly.
BTW David did too and retorted in his own inimitable way
but i dont want to take away from an otherwise informative thread
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if the Govt needs revenue from taxes -whatever that means- why did it forgive taxes from 1968 to 2009 at the outset of its term? why did it not seek to collect cents on the dollar on those taxes owed?
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David
We tell poor people all the time that no system is perfect.
But the elites have no problem with the system at all.
Regardless of circumstances, the elites, people like Kiffin and COW, always seem to find an elusive perfection.
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David there was always an exemption for properties of under $250,000 yes, that was in place for years now. In the meantime though over the years property values have risen, with many people who paid $250,000 for their home now having a house with a land tax valuation of say $900,000. So the same home owner who has owned a property on which he may of paid no land tax in the beginning, is now paying serious tax. For instance 20 years ago you could of bought a small house in a decent development with say 6000 sq ft of land for $200,000. Today The land alone is that price. The other issue is that as you know every bajan here or abroad, always wanted to own “Piece of de rock”, hence bought a spot of land and put down. Vacant lots was hit the hardest in the tax rate revision too so those persons are also now faced with some hard decisions to make. Couple all this to the fact that they are faced with looking for money again in 7 months as opposed to 12 and you got a serious threat to property ownership.
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@Pacha
Can you point to a system anywhere in the world the elite and the rich do not manipulate to their financial benefit? Even in the centralized systems there is that group who are located at the pinnacle and benefit. No system is perfect. This is why citizen advocacy must be encouraged but it must be fine smart.
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David I want to share with you how one tax decision can set off serious fall out in a totally unrelated way.
Bus fare as we know were increased a few weeks ago and many will argue they had to be, I am not debating that one way or the other. But what few people may know is that since the increase in bus fares business in the city has fallen off badly on a Saturday. Some will ask why is that? Bridge Town survives on the bus traveller now mainly. The middle class with cars gravitate to other areas where parking is easier. So when these bus clients were faced with a sizeable increase in bus fare percentage wise in the week, what did they do? Like any good economist they cut out unnecessary travel, hence that Saturday trip to town to “look bout” and buy a few things was discontinued.
I only use this as an example in how looking for more revenue in bus fare in this sector, has cost the same government thousands in vat from the lost Saturday sales. It’s what they call in the US market The Push Back Effect.
My apologies to all for digressing from the topic, I did so only to draw reference to how fallout occurs.
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Property owners with residential properties valued over $450 000 and up to $850 000 will see a rate increase to 0.7 per cent from 0.45 per cent, and properties valued over $850 000 will pay a rate of one per cent from 0.75 per cent.
Responding to the new measure which is expected to rake in $61.9 million, Mallalieu pointed out that the residential property owners would be marginally impacted
The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.