The Government’s regulatory interest in community safety can, in appropriate circumstances, outweigh an individual’s liberty interest. –US v Salerno [1987]

I suppose that one rational response by the current governing administration to a query by an individual charged with one of the offences stipulated under the amended Bail Act and thereby suffering a loss of pre-trial liberty, as to the reason for its draconian nature, could very well be, “Well, you and your ilk left us with little choice, didn’t you?” Bizarrely enough, treason and high treason are included among the offences, even though such charges are extremely rare.

With its pride deeply stung by an unacceptable rate of the murders of young men through the use of unlicensed firearms since its assumption of the reins of office; a phenomenon that culminated in the tipping point recently of the reckless Sheraton assassination, it could be reasonably expected that any administration would have reacted similarly.

For, argue as cogently we might that crime should not be politicized, in that no government can prevent someone who is hell-bent of taking the life of another from doing so, it also bears reminder, as I quoted in an epigraph to my column two weeks ago, “government’s first duty and highest obligation is public safety”. Hence, any sense of general civic insecurity will most likely redound to the disbenefit of the incumbent administration. And that is not A Very Good Thing, politically speaking.

Related link:

The Jeff Cumberbatch Column – The Tipping Point

So it was that last week, the current governing administration took to Parliament, for passage into legislation, a Bill to amend the Bail Act, Cap 122A. Mindful that the provisions of the Bill might conceivably infringe the Constitution, the preamble to the Bill read, inter alia, that it was to be enacted “in accordance with the provisions of section 49 of the Constitution”; namely, first, that Parliament may alter an aspect of Chapter III of the Constitution -the local Bill of Rights- by an Act of Parliament passed by both Houses, that is supported by the votes of not less than two-thirds of all the members of each House, and, second, that an Act of Parliament shall not be construed as altering the Constitution unless it is stated in the Act that it is an Act for that purpose. The Act expressly seeks to alter section 13 (3) of the Constitution, the guarantee of the right to personal liberty, that provides as follows-

Any person who is arrested or detained-

  1. (a)  for the purpose of bringing him before a court in execution of the order of a court; or

(b)  upon reasonable suspicion of his having committed or being about to commit a criminal offence, and who is not released, shall be brought before a court as soon as is reasonably practicable; and if any person arrested or detained upon reasonable suspicion of his having committed or being about to commit a criminal offence is not tried within a reasonable time, then, without prejudice to any further proceedings which may be brought against him, he shall be released either unconditionally or upon reasonable conditions, including in particular such conditions as are reasonably necessary to ensure that he appears at a later date for trial or for proceedings preliminary to trial.

My Constitutional law professor, the late AR Carnegie, was given to arguing that there were in fact two meanings of the Constitution; that with the capital “C” referring to the text of the document, while that with the lower case “c” referred to all the practices, understandings and conventions that regulated the governance of the state.

That distinction may be relevant here. So that while it may be argued that the amendment is not un-Constitutional, because of the terms and mode of its enactment, one may nevertheless contend that it may be extra-constitutional if it offends certain well-established understandings of the compact of governance between the citizen and the state. Not of course, that this will suffice to invalidate the statute in a court of law, but it should at least require further enquiry as to whether any established assault by it on the liberty of the subject is morally justifiable.

Clearly, there is much wrong at first blush with a statute that mandates such a substantial deprivation of an individual’s liberty on a bare assertion. The Bill itself at least acknowledges its infringement of the guarantee of personal liberty, but it also arguably drives a ZR through the principle of the presumption of innocence, that golden metwand of the criminal law, as it has been described. In addition, by displacing the discretion of the judicial officer of whether or not to grant bail to an accused person in a particular case, it might have blurred the separation of powers, a doctrine that forms an integral part of our constitution, even though it does not find expression anywhere in our Constitutional text.

The draconian nature of this legislation does indeed merit further inquiry, although it might be justified if it is perceived to be a proportionate response to the evil that it seeks to eradicate, so long as it employs the least invasive means of infringing the fundamental right in order to do so In other words, the infringement(s) of fundamental rights may be justified if effected in pursuit of a nobler objective and the means of infringement employed are minimally invasive of those rights.

The clear objective of the legislation is to curb the present scourge of gun violence and mayhem, in itself a warranted and unobjectionable ideal. In this context though, I would be happier, as a liberal skeptic, to have been provided with some empirical evidence of the incidence of bailed reoffenders in the area of gun crimes. Three or four instances do not necessarily provide cogent evidence of a pattern sufficient to justify the annulment of a right so fundamental to the rule of law.

Is the law minimally invasive of the guaranteed rights? Ostensibly, it appears to place the acknowledged sloth of our local court system on the shoulders of the accused, by precluding an application for bail “unless a period of 24 months has expired after that person was charged”, although there are stipulated exceptions. The question arises whether these exceptions are sufficient to soften morally the plain infringement of the rule of law. Some might still consider this period too long by far and thus too textually invasive of the presumption of innocence to be deemed constitutionally pukka.

150 responses to “The Jeff Cumberbatch Column – A Disproportionate Reaction?”


  1. This govt in 10 months has used the mighty. force of stealth unilaterism to bend the constitution
    But trampling on any one individual rights is going way too far and should be heralded as a “Hell No”


  2. And how are their actions any different, in total, to the last which deployed inertia to achieve said objectives?


  3. So Pacha explain your position on how past govt use unilaterism measures to trample on individual rights
    Recently there was a debate in parliament where govt is taking a position to clamp down on social media.


  4. Mariposa/AC

    The generalized ‘don’t care-ish’ attitude of the criminal DLP regime, led by Fruendel Jerome Stuart, was just as ‘unilateral’ and indeed by ignore the real world conditions that the country was slipping further and further into amounted to a collective ‘trampling of all individual rights’.

    Elsewhere we have deemed it as treasonous! And there is only one penalty for that crime.

    The recent efforts to ‘clamp down’ on ‘social media’ are no different to those eschewed by the people and talked about by the last regime for they will meet with the same level of failure. These too, the present regime, will come to know the limitations of their tin pot dictatorial ways, just like the last gang of crooks.

    These legalisms have no affect. Only Google, and the like, can achieve what the clowns in parliament are attempting.

    The real question for you contemplation is the sameness of both elected dictatorships. Was this not clear to us all when MAM tried to change the constitution to allow a defeated DLP back into the governing system?

  5. Caswell Franklyn Avatar
    Caswell Franklyn

    Let me quote Spock of Star Trek fame: “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”.


  6. Pachamana you are mixing oranges with apples
    At present never seen or heard in barbados has there been a govt in 11 months to pressforward hard and fast in making unilateral decisions where across the board the most vulnerable had to hold the shitty end of the stick
    Even as present time there have been not one or two but many decisions made by present govt without transparency
    I guess you hold fast to govt that are of dictaorial inclination as this govt seems most likely to be ushering with unpredecent performance
    Yes past govt made mistakes but nothing in comparison with the haste and lightning speed as present govt under the banner of Unilateralism

    Even Caswell has been given a taste of the kool aid as a Trade Unionist asking for govt to fire people who might be suspicious of govt measures
    This is were barbados is heading wherby voices who would protect the basic rights of individuals are speaking in stealth and unmanageable tones ..Scary


  7. Pach

    the link between Fruendel’s inaction and MAM’s exuberance or over reaction in the matter you described is as diaphanous as to be non existent


  8. Everyone agrees that we are facing a serious situation. One if left unchecked will continue to destabilize the Barbadian society as we have known it. It is the one redeeming quality that through the years differentiated Barbados from the ‘rest’.

    Here is the most pertinent paragraph of ‘Jeff’s column in the blogmaster’s opinuion for consideration.

    That distinction may be relevant here. So that while it may be argued that the amendment is not un-Constitutional, because of the terms and mode of its enactment, one may nevertheless contend that it may be extra-constitutional if it offends certain well-established understandings of the compact of governance between the citizen and the state. Not of course, that this will suffice to invalidate the statute in a court of law, but it should at least require further enquiry as to whether any established assault by it on the liberty of the subject is morally justifiable.


  9. i this instance i agree with the intent of this Amendment to the Bail Act. we in Bim seem to think that Laws are written in stone and should never be changed once passed. times change so should laws even the Constitution in some cases


  10. @Greene

    Note Jeff was quick to point out the following:

    With its pride deeply stung by an unacceptable rate of the murders of young men through the use of unlicensed firearms since its assumption of the reins of office; a phenomenon that culminated in the tipping point recently of the reckless Sheraton assassination, it could be reasonably expected that any administration would have reacted similarly.

    For, argue as cogently we might that crime should not be politicized, in that no government can prevent someone who is hell-bent of taking the life of another from doing so, it also bears reminder, as I quoted in an epigraph to my column two weeks ago, “government’s first duty and highest obligation is public safety”. Hence, any sense of general civic insecurity will most likely redound to the disbenefit of the incumbent administration. And that is not A Very Good Thing, politically speaking.


  11. Just a question. Was the legislation permitting the suppression of said human rights in cordoned areas, the least invasive path in pursuit of same or similar objectives? If not, why not? Three or four examples where the normative number of all murders per year is twenty-five is not enough to show a pattern? Then how many? Twenty-five, fifty? Let us suppose for a minute that the three or four are your kith and kin, then does the pattern emerge more quickly with a very small sample. But the lives of misguided young people can be discounted and require a very large sample of dead young Barbadians.


  12. Mariposa/AC

    Come to know that we are living in an age of overt fascism. And it’s growing all over the world.

    It matters not how one gets there. Whether it is the DLP’s way or that of the BLP. It’s fascism writ large.

    You have long chosen the apple over the orange but the end product is still fascist, the rabbit hole of elected dictatorship.

    Your musings about ‘the most vulnerable’ is window-dressing, neither the DLP nor BLP is able to care about such beyond thus.

    When we read politicos like you referring to governmental ‘mistakes’ it is clear to us that the people were screwed-over by the DLP. We have taught people to use that kind of double-speak so it can not minimize the DLP crimes within our minds, as intended to.

    This BLP would not be able to do any of their acts against the constitution unless operating on the well-paved road of the DLP.


  13. The scenario being played out is the Gov’t acting like a parent administering medicine to a child and when the child asks “why’? The Gov’t replies “Because its good for you”. One remembers when bail for murder was nigh impossible then it became commonplace, didn’t the Prosecutors have other arrows in their quiver e.g. demanding large amounts that would deter many of the applicants or is that unconstitutional? Or couldn’t they argue that release of X or Y constitutes a danger to the public?

    It will be interesting to see whether this particular dosage is a “cure all” in the long run but in the absence of an Opposition in the H of A the Gov’t expects its changes to be rubber stamped by a complacent Senate ( note the AG’s recent admonition concerning the Independent Senators supposedly thwarting the will of the Gov’t during the debate about the mandatory death penalty) .

    Elections have consequences and one remembers the early days after the DLP won 20 of the 30 seats in 2008 and some saying “we dodged a bullet” because it was this close to having a 2/3 majority and changing the Constitution now this Gov’t has gone to the Constitution “well” twice in less than a year …..


  14. @Sargeant

    How will it be a cure for all when the fight against crime has to be a multi pronged approach? This automatic 24 month is contingent on an efficient processing of the court’s case load.


  15. Greene

    i this instance i agree with the intent of this Amendment to the Bail Act. we in Bim seem to think that Laws are written in stone and should never be changed once passed. times change so should laws even the Constitution in some cases

    It is all well for ones individual rights to be trampled until a similarity happens within the confines of ones family
    The fact is laws were not written with an intent to favour or make a nesting place of comfort for the few but within a moral coded intent to protect all
    This knee jerk reaction of chipping away of indivual rights for any reason when those put in(charge)brains become frozen having no alternatives would someday have an effect of authoritarian within a democracy


  16. there should be a complete examination of the laws on the books in Bim with a view of changing them to meet present day realities like crime. littering, bad driving etc. it seem like when given too much freedom people take it to the limits.

    i am as liberal as it gets but i recognise the limitations of the human person. he/she seem unable to restrain him/herself without some kind of governance. ZR drive as they like often cussing police or any member of the public who admonish them. young men shooting each other with impunity. people throw garbage everywhere in Bim like there is some kind of self cleaning device at Sanitation. People destroy govt property often remarking, “i pay taxes for this. so i cud mash um up.”

    unnuh lucky i am not in charge otherwise i would pop a few necks especially the person who killed that woman and her son and the man who killed the guy in Sheraton.

    and i would double the salary of politicians and if they steal and are convicted their necks would pop first


  17. David

    What ‘multi-pronged approach’? The genesis of what you call crime lies in economy primarily.

    And the real crimes which therein lie have never been appropriately approached by any government of Barbados.

    As a result, this government will resort to that which it knows best – more reactionary responses, like the Dodds prison project.


  18. @Pacha

    Some of it. There are other factors like the glorification of thug life a consequence of the blurring of cultural boundaries. This is one significant example.

  19. William Skinner Avatar
    William Skinner

    Attempts to muzzle public debate is nothing new. Long before social media, back in the mid-eighties, Keith Simmons (DLP) wanted call in programs off the air.
    I publicly opposed his position via the Nation Newspaper.
    BLP + DLP = Same party: Six and half dozen.


  20. The fact that this govt has to keep ripping away at the Constitution is an example of a govt having no alternatives to a barbdos economy now on a downward spiral to more poverty which is a catalyst and a breeding ground for all types of criminal activity
    Crime would not come to a halt because govt seeks resolution by way of denying individual rights
    Crime in itself can be attached to govt measures which can be detrimental to serving the well being of many . There is where govt needs to use their many big brains of advisors and consultants and look for answers that are constitutionally binding and which would protect all individual rights
    If all fails we can expect a govt that resort to measures wherby govt use tactics of identifying individual as suspects by suspucious methods such as profiling


  21. William Skinner
    True

    Attempts to muzzle public debate is nothing new. Long before social media, back in the mid-eighties, Keith Simmons (DLP) wanted call in programs off the air.
    I publicly opposed his position via the Nation Newspaper.
    BLP + DLP = Same party: Six and half dozen.

    Luckily back then there was some thing known as an opposition
    Things are different now
    A govt with no opposition can do as it dam pleases


  22. David

    But the ‘glorification of thug life’ is not something traditional to Barbados.

    So how does the further pressurization of the people, through ‘draconian’ constitution measures, fix a problem whose causation lies elsewhere?

    David, we have found that many within the legal profession have been desensitized of a basic humanity and unfortunately we see that trait within the words and actions of MAM, especially in this matter.

    If Bajans think we will find security from ‘crime’ through giving up more rights to an elected dictatorship. Well, as the man says, we will loose both security and freedom (rights).

    And this is what successive regimes have done.


  23. @William

    The blogmaster listened carefully to Senator Lucille Moe and nothing she stated suggest the government wants to muzzle social media. The Barbados government like others across the globe is acting on what we know i.e. we have criminals who use the WhatsApp and other social media platforms to promote criminal activity. We have others who have no problem posting malicious and defamatory stories even when evidence is offered to the contrary. The blogmaster does not have to state the obvious, we have skin in this game.


  24. @Pacha

    We have been discussing tipping point in this forum alot of late. If memory serve we owe its introduction here to Observing.

    Have no issue with your position, just a caution the situation in Barbados has deteriorated to a level where contact has been made with the political, social and economic spheres in a way we have never experienced on the island.


  25. Mariposa

    Within a duopoly there is no real opposition, just pretend opposition.

    Duopoly equals to a one-party state. Like we have now. Or in the past.


  26. I found these comments interesting from the Barbados Today website.

    GREENGIANT
    @Carl Harper: (1) The system — prosecution, defense, judiciary — have all contributed to the wheels of justice grinding to a near halt, prompting Government to make the recent amendments to the Bail Act as a Band-Aid solution to a judicial crisis that no one seems willing to bring to an end.

    I have often said there are too many lawyers in our parliament. I will never support a party with more than five lawyers among their thirty candidates. Not while our judiciary remains in crisis. See how for example one Lashley spent a decade in government, did little or nothing but can come out pretending to be the bail application champion of the people? I have seen previously seen Tulls, Cheltenhams, Simmons’, Mottleys, Marshalls, and several others spend years in parliament, doing nothing to level the judicial process, then returning to practice again benefiting from the long delays. I know you too have seen this, that does not change the fact that the recent change is unconstitutional, and a knee jerk reaction. We need a mechanism with resources within the police force, DPP’s office, the Supreme Court to address capital offences. This is the constitutional solution. To legislate remand time without bail, is to convict without trial. Hence there must be compensation for those acquitted. This legislation is again too one sided and only disadvantages the (innocent until proven guilty) accused.

    (2) The focus should not be on whether or not a person charged with murder or firearm offenses be granted bail after spending two years on remand. The problem is, all those involved in the administration of justice failing to get accused persons to trial within a reasonable time period — less than two years. The amendments further expose the glaring inefficiencies in the judicial system.

    You are correct Carl Harper, “all those responsible failing to get accused a speedy trial.” Our parliamentarians many current, and past are responsible for this mess. We need special courts for critical offenses. We need a gun court, a drugs court, a civil compensation court. These can be courts prioritizing these matters, but being also available to hear other matters as well. This is what I expect an opposition party to be planning while preparing to take the reigns of government, but your B L P was only planning for power, not serious reform of anything. I know what I’m talking about as I was in the very first planning meeting.
    “Say and do whatever we need to, win this election at all cost, and we’ll deal with the rest after.” This is what was said.

    (3) Incidentally, depending on who is the accused (and victim), the wheels of justice appear to speed up. Case in point: the case of Caucasian Johan Bjerkham and son of a construction tycoon (accused of accidentally shooting and killing his son) was fast tracked and concluded in less than a year.

    So since you and the B L P knows this so well, how come under your watch two white men got bail after being in the import environment of a large quantity of drugs? Particularly in the case of one individual who’s company vehicle was found with illegal firearms some years ago? We recently heard one magistrate say ‘drugs and firearms are family’, was this not the case with anything concerning Redland? These are supporters of your party though, and though not west coast white, they’re whites nevertheless. So the more things change in government the more they remain the same. Different party in power, different whites dominate.

    (4) It should be noted that while police charged Bjerkham with manslaughter, the DPP reduced it to some 19th century charge on the Statute books that ensured the accused did not receive a custodial sentence if found guilty, and would instead be fined only $24 and do a little community service.

    I rest my case.

    Since your party recognized the outdated clause that allowed the Bjerkham brother to walk away from justice, and that the police recommended a charge of manslaughter, then your party should have entered government with a plan for penal reform.

    The same precolonial law that allowed Bjerkham the ‘get out of jail free card’ should have been addressed by now, but no, instead you all are as usually reactive and not proactive. So you find your self bringing legislative remand. You can’t legislate investment for tax breaks, you can’t legislate anything to address the much needed equitable wealth creation that’s so badly needed, you can’t legislate speedy trials with persons responsible for delaying justice being fired or otherwise punished, but legislative bail / remand time. Again an assault against the poor. Is this the only solution you can bring to this problem? Well your party’s plan was to assume power at all cost, and deal with the issues after. You have assumed power, but you are failing to deal with the issues effectively.

    If in doubt refer to the BLP’s manifesto ‘Covenant of Hope” pages 6-12 ‘mission critical commitments’ to be addressed within the first six months in office.

    I too rest my case.


  27. David

    We have seen such deepening of ‘crime’ elsewhere. It does not surprise us. Was always just a matter of time. That is why we were, for decades, calling for economic justice and other measures to forestall the present state of affairs.

    We are afraid it maybe now too late.

    Jamaica has long taught us how this monster grows. Too late buddy, too late!

  28. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Caswell Franklyn April 7, 2019 7:59 AM
    “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”.
    +++++++++++++++
    In this case Caswell, it is much more that the paranoia of the many outweighs the rights of the few. This change to the law does absolutely nothing to address the root causes of the social dysfunction that scares Bajans. It is almost pure political theatre that simply serves to distract from the panic in the Heights and Terraces.


  29. @Pacha

    Not too long ago Barbados earned the review as a model country. What happened? Many agree we have arrived at the tipping point. How we make decisions from here will require a different thinking and approach.


  30. Donna

    You are so right!

    Especially, about the involvement of the lawyer/politician in profiting and abetting inefficiencies in the system of injustice.

    For example, there is a particular lawyer, well known and liked, who has a strategy of working within the system to delay matters, for decades sometimes, to the point where witnesses die, or become forgetful, or evidence files turn up missing, etc.

    And nothing the lawyer/politicians in parliament have done, or will do will, interferes with the vested interest other possessed whether in the peoples’ house or not. LOL

    Yuh right as shiiite!

  31. peterlawrencethompson Avatar
    peterlawrencethompson

    @Pachamama
    “Jamaica has long taught us how this monster grows.”
    ++++++++++++++
    The Jamaican “monster” was incubated, hatched, and nourished by the CIA in order to destabilize the Manley Government. CIA agents have admitted to this.


  32. Caswell Franklyn April 7, 2019 7:59 AM
    “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”.

    That is true at some level but because we always have minorities with us accommodation must be made for them. For example, Barbados is mainly a Christian nation but they have other Religions that are not Christian that are allowed to exercise their Beliefs even within the mainly Christian Religion they are many different Sects that are allowed their differences.

    Although gays would account for 2% or less of the population that means the majority is 98%. Even though you may not agree with their Life Style they are allowed to Exist, Live and do anything that the 98% majority does. The Mark of any Society that believes in Individualism is its treatment of Minorities, but never to the point of having a minority, Force a point of view on the Majority and vice versa.

    We allow in a Free Society the Exercise of Agency and the Freedom of Association that means we allow places like the Ursuline Convent a Catholic School, a Muslim School, a Brethren School, a Secular school like St. Winifred’s and Public schools all living in Barbados.

    So although Mr.Caswell technically may be right to Not pay heed to Minorities and Individuals is Tyranny.

    https://img.libquotes.com/pic-quotes/v1/ayn-rand-quote-lbe1u2h.jpg


  33. i am the first to admit that the aetiology of many crimes lie in economic disparity between the have and the havenots which creates social defiance.

    However murder (outside of crimes of passion) and political corruption stem from a different root cause.

    therefore the overall solution should be one that takes into consideration social, economic, education and legal perspectives and not one over the other.

    for those who shoot others over drugs or for reprisal, and politicians who steal from the public purse and are convicted they should have their necks popped after all legal niceties have been exhausted.

  34. WARU, Crazy & Unstable, Hogging the Blog Avatar
    WARU, Crazy & Unstable, Hogging the Blog

    “The recent efforts to ‘clamp down’ on ‘social media’ are no different to those eschewed by the people and talked about by the last regime for they will meet with the same level of failure. These too, the present regime, will come to know the limitations of their tin pot dictatorial ways, just like the last gang of crooks.”

    And boy oh boy will they see “the limitations of their tinpot dictatorial ways”..soon come..

    When Cow the Land Thief wanted to remove social media from Barbados because being exposed was interfering with their tiefing everything from the people and hiding it offshore…all the lowlifes in DLP mobilized to help Cow cover up his crimes…..BLP lowlifes joined them… Mia made sure she was upfront, so was Owen, DPP deceased, COP. all the black boys and girls owned by Cow and the fellow minority crooks mobilized to get rid of social media for their minority masters….clear the way .to help them rob their own people…we know who the scum criminals are…all the ones who do not want to be exposed…now creating laws to hide their crimes…

    but ah want them to take down facebook…..that is the one i want them to mess with…🎁MoFos…


  35. David

    You always falling for these memes.

    These things are just creations of marketers and marketing.

    Given the appropriate contact, to the right agency, the same will be so manufactured again

    Part of the constant fight between reality and fiction.

    Sir William Skinner knows about that struggle better than most.

  36. WARU, Crazy & Unstable, Hogging the Blog Avatar
    WARU, Crazy & Unstable, Hogging the Blog

    “Not too long ago Barbados earned the review as a model country. ”

    Intelligent people knew it was a facade…how anyone could believe that fraud from day one is beyond me…

    …….now that all the layers of hypocrisy and crimes committed have all have been peeled away…and all the demon families who engage in these criminal activities against people and country along with the lawyers and ministers are exposed for their decades of criminality…..now what..


  37. Solving the guns drugs and gangs problem in Barbados.

    What is the plan ? Immediate, short term, long term.


  38. Peter

    Well!

    David would concur that nobody here talks and blames the intelligence agencies of the USA for what most see as realities, more than Pachamama.

    And not just the CIA, the other 16 as well. Their networks all over the world, including Barbados.

    To the point where others wrongly suggest conspiracy theorizing.

    Separately

    We will, on another blog, revert to you relative to your refusal to accept our determination that Brussels has acted in ways to make Brexit difficult to the point of reversing/withdrawing Article 50.

    Indeed, the determination of the same intelligence agencies has been such – make Brexit fail to keep other EU member countries from attempting same.

    Not now, but there will be an opportunity soon to deliver you the third party evidence supporting our contention.

  39. WARU, Crazy & Unstable, Hogging the Blog Avatar
    WARU, Crazy & Unstable, Hogging the Blog

    5 lawyers in parliament are way too many….especially when it’s the same family names coming up and called in every crime committed against the people…over and over for decades, none of these families are good for the island….

    …..the island will not recover unless every one of these families are removed from the seats of power in the parliament, bar association and judiciary…they are tainted and cursed with blight….and each and everyone of them have some kinda sense of entitlement…and crimes against the people…through the stained and blighted supreme court…attached to their names…

    “See how for example one Lashley spent a decade in government, did little or nothing but can come out pretending to be the bail application champion of the people? I have seen previously seen Tulls, Cheltenhams, Simmons’, Mottleys, Marshalls, and several others spend years in parliament, doing nothing to level the judicial process, then returning to practice again benefiting from the long delays.”


  40. David

    In your comment above to Sir William you neglected to mention that actors within the same social media space, like Wikipedia, Fuckbook, Google et al, are not just arbiter either.

    In fact, we are more worried about the big government role of those owners of the commons than the actors mentioned by you.

    We say break up these vicious internet monopolies!

    For the large aim is to consolidate ownership of the internet in the same ways they did with the terrestrials.

    Right now opinion pages and system they dislike are being shut down. For example information clearing house. A site we read daily.


  41. @Pacha

    See the context of our statement. Your observation about about how the establishment manipulates in the name hiding behind the cloak of justice.


  42. Any attempt by govt to stiffle or remotely impede on a person Constitutional roghts is absolutely wrong
    Reason why there are many branches of govt wherby their role is to keep govt from overstepping their limitations( namely the justice dept in this instance)
    The role of govt is not to run rough shot over the people rights but to protect the Constitution by all means necessary


  43. @Jeff

    We refer to the Constitution has a sacred mandate from the gods. How are we to view the Constitution in the context it can be changed?


  44. were the laws made for man or man for the laws?


  45. (Not a B thing or a D thing)
    (Not a black thing or as white thing)
    @Donna
    “These are supporters of your party though, and though not west coast white, they’re whites nevertheless. So the more things change in government the more they remain the same. Different party in power, different whites dominate.”

    Previously as political parties change power so to would the minority representative. Now we see that even with the transition or political leadership from one head of the BDLP, Mr Mark Maloney still remain as a power player. It would appear that minority politics has evolved to a point where it is not necessary to do a “me be B, so you be D” routine.

    It is only the party supporters who keep singing “four legs good , two legs bad”
    x————————————————–AA———————————-x

    (How the man in the streets sees it)

    24 months is too long if it turns out that the person is innocent.
    This law in no-way speeds up the current delays in the court system
    Many have pointed out that the law is applied in an unequal manner. If you strengthen the law and still mete out unequal justice then you just fooling your ardent supporters.
    These changes are akin to knowingly giving a patient a placebo pill. In this day an age, the electorate must seek information and not rely on what politicians say.
    These changes seem to be about maintaining power and not about resolving problems.
    There are other items that can be fixed quickly and easily.
    (I am not a legal scholar or accountant so they may express this much better than can.).
    Establishing accounts so that proceeds can be cut at settlement with legal fees going to one account and the remainder going to a different account. Fees in a settlement should go towards the client is a fixed period of time (measured in months and not in decade)

    I will make my exit here and watch the big words being thrown around….


  46. We have already established that the constitution was a bad cut and paste from a drawer in a cupboard in an empty office, somewhere in London.

    We are past the age of a writing a glorious twistory.


  47. @David
    I thought that we were winning the battle against crime n’est-ce pas? Each time those occupying the Office of COP comment on crime they remind us that the “stats” show us that crime is on the decrease.

    On the subject of Lucille Moe, I am not worried about what her thoughts are on the “muzzling” of social media, I am more concerned about the words of the PM when she was a minister in the old OSA Gov’t voicing that there ought to be a law re “policing” of the blogs


  48. @Sargeant

    We are not winning the war.

    Politicians say the darnest things.

    Have no problem with any government enacting measures to protect the society as a whole. By definition this is one of their roles.


  49. I said it yesterday and I shall say it again today.

    These things should be left to the discretion of the judiciary. It is an arbitrary law. that does not take into consideration the circumstances of the case. One should perhaps set guidelines but allow for discretion.

    Since a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty bail should be a given. The onus should not be on an accused to argue why he/she should be granted bail. The onus should be on the prosecutors to argue why an accused should NOT be given bail.

    This is a knee-jerk reaction to appease that portion of the public that wants to see something (translated as ANYTHING) being done. It ignores the fact that another thug will step up and take the remanded thug’s place. The hit will still be carried out. That’s what gangs do.

    This move just pretends to be doing something. As I said before, taking care of busyness but not business.

    The root cause of these murders must be addressed or this is just making mock sport at the problem.

The blogmaster invites you to join the discussion.

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading